16 Nov
2002
16 Nov
'02
1 p.m.
I don't understand what the controversy is here. I
have a small chip collection, and I build working
computers out of many of these older chips. From
scratch, with wire wrap. Both hobbies have historical
and educational value. What is the point of
collecting, anyway? I suppose part of it might be
"lust and greed" (I have it and you don't, I have 20
and you have 10) but another important part is sharing
the history of the chip or machines with others. You
can do these things with chips or with computers.
Personally, I can't afford the former, and I enjoy the
latter more anyway.
I've taken probably working boards, removed chips, and
either sold them, displayed them, or used them to
build other machines with. None of these boards were
of incredible historical or irreplaceable value. One
thing you have to say about chip collecting is that it
takes up a lot less SPACE than collecting computers!
--- Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com> wrote:
Oh no, another rant from a pseudonym.
On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, John Galt wrote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm a chip collector and I would like to take
a
moment to defend my hobby.
1. Most chip collectors are very particular about
protecting their chips.
We just don't
throw them in the bottom of a drawer like
some "computer
enthusiasts".
I don't know of any computer you can just "throw in
the bottom of a
drawer" (unless you're talking about a Sinclair ZX81
or some handheld).
But even then, collectors don't throw their
computers in the bottom of a
drawer.
I could not
count the times that I've bought chips on
EBAY auctions that were
displayed
loose in a coffee can from someone who had
found them in grandpa's
shop.
Do you really think these chips are better
off going in the trash
than into some
chip collectors collection?
Yes, yes. We've heard your arguments before. But
we aren't talking about
loose chips in a tin can. We're talking about
pillaging working boards
for chips. If you're going to respond to a thread,
at least respond
within the context (no straw men here).
2. Once a chip ends up in a chip collectors
collection it's not gone from
the face
of the earth. It's carefully preserved for
future generations.
Yes, thank you. But hopefully it didn't come out of
a board that is now
gone from the face of the Earth. For instance, what
happened to that
Altair CPU board you bought because you wanted the
CPU?
3. The argument that a chip is better off inside
a vintage computer is like
saying
a coin is better off in circulation serving
its "intended" purpose
than
in some
collectors collection.
If that's where the chip came from then yes, it is.
By removing the chip
from a computer it once powered or helped work, you
are removing it from
its historical context. From a hobbyists point of
view, you are taking
something that once worked, removing one part of it
that will make it
unfunctioning, and then relishing the one, now
non-functioning, part over
the whole in which it once ran.
4. Many of the chips that chip collectors pay
alot of money for are "rare"
varieties
of "common" chips. For example, an Intel
C8080 vs. C8080A.
Vintage
computer enthusiasts don't
"need" an Intel
C8080. In fact, you would
probably
be better off with the more common and
"improved" C8080A.
Well, chip collectors don't really "need" an Intel
C8080 either, when a
C8080A will do quite nicely as a representative
sample, right? Unless
you have a cereal box prize mentality and must
"collect all 8!"
5. I think that alot of vintage computer
enthusiasts think that chip
collectors are
out there busting up Altair 8800's with
sledge hammers to get the chips
out of
them. That's simply not true. Chip
collectors hang out on in the same
areas of EBAY that you do. We know full
well
what rare machines are
worth.
I'll assure you, chip collectors are not
breaking up old machines for
chips.
What happened to that Altair CPU board?
In fact, it's just the opposite. I know
a
number of vintage machines
that have
been "saved" by chip collectors because they
recognized what they
were.
Examples? What happened to the chips?
If you really want a supply of vintage chips
for your vintage machines
in
20-30 years then you should be glad that a
C8008 brings $100 on EBAY
because of chip collectors. The reason you
should be glad is because
as the
word gets out that the early chips are worth
money, less of them will
end up
in the trash.
You're assuming some chip collector 20-30 years down
the road will be
willing to part with his rare C8008 that is now part
of his amazing
collection of dead silicon. Because in all
likelihood that's what it will
be anyway: dead.
that you guys have and not because of the
chips in them either. That
said,
we also recognize that the chips themselves
have historic value and
should
be preserved.
And we do too. We're the greatest chip collectors
because we have whole
computers full of them.
Many chip collectors would like to one day
obtain a
working vintage machine but I know more than
a few who have abandoned
this idea once they figured out that many
vintage computer enthusiasts
have such a negative view of chip
collectors.
Bullshit. You keep making this silly remark. I
believe this is your
opinion and your opinion alone. You're not gaining
any sympathy.
The same younger computer enthusiasts are
the
very people you need to
keep your
hobby going but the sad thing is, many of the
same people will try and
entire
your world from the world of chip collecting
and be totally turned off
by your
attitudes toward chip collectors.
Blah blah. Name one chip collector that has been
turned off by the
comments on this list. Now name all the chip
collectors you steered away
from this list because you feel we are biased
against chip collectors.
Sellam Ismail
Vintage Computer Festival
International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia
at www.VintageTech.com *
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