Don Maslin/Archiving system software (was: ftp archives disappearing?)

Jules Richardson wrote: For sure. But besides that, I see the web aspect purely as the most convenient method to allow users to do the searching. There's nothing to stop a search result pointing to a FTP site, physical mailing address to which to send your pre-paid envelope in order to receive a CD of data back etc. :) In other words, the actual data retrieval side doesn't *have* to be web-based at all (although realistically in most cases it probably would be). As you say, recording the date in the metadata is the way to go anyway! Billy: This brings in several points that should be discussed re: what is an archive. If I send manuals to be scanned and put on a web site, is that breaking the law? Here returns all the arguments about copyright law that have ensnarled this list before. Generally the answer is yes. But as one member responded, many copyright owners give a "wink and a nod" without officially blessing the activity. Of course many other IP owners have gone out of business and there may or may not be a new rights owner. Then comes the discussion of the manuals themselves. Many were distributed in thousands of copies. They fall under fair use laws. But some stuff from this list is detailed internal documents, such as software source listings, software maintenance documents, etc. This is a much more iffy arena. There might still be perceived value to this IP. In a few cases, and Control Data is one of them, IP (especially software) was sold and the new owner continues to protect his investment. If we want to play and share old CDC software, we have to ask for permission. To be on the good side of the new owner, we play by his rules. And he makes no effort to preserve the older unsaleable software. So the dilemma is how to save all this old software for the future? The method a few of us use is to make copies, put them in private archives and specifically prevent them from being accessed on the web. There may a very small private distribution to individuals known to have an interest in the software and willing to follow the owner's rules. This solves the preservation problem - multiple copies are saved. And it prevents the IP owner coming down like a ton of bricks. So now we have a young Turk who is going to save everything and distribute to whoever he wants. He ignores the narrow line that is being walked by the current public archives and even proposes we engage in illegal activities to help his acquisition yen. There doesn't seem to be any understanding that not everyone wants wide distribution of the software archives. Nor does he understand that what he wants to do could set off the wrath of IP owners against the current public archives. We survive at the whim of these IP owners. And many of them, like the RIAA, are in a bad temper. What a few of us are doing is ensuring multiple copies are archived without shouting it to the world. It achieves the goals of a lasting archive. And it keeps the Eye of Sauron away from us. And if copies are not available to leeches, too bad. Billy