8 Aug
2006
8 Aug
'06
1:34 p.m.
Subject: Re: VAXen RULE! (WAS Microkernels)
From: Kevin Handy <kth at srv.net>
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 09:21:31 -0600
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Allison wrote:
The best processor is going to be different based on the person
you are talking to. Everyone has their own idea as to what
features are important, and fond old memories of working on
an ancient (wasn't then) OS tend to sway their decision. If you
go back to one of those old systems, you often think to yourself
"did I really put up with all this crap?"
Yes! Often looking back it was the tools rather than the CPU that
were "crap".
Subject:
Re: VAXen RULE! (WAS Microkernels)
From: Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 12:40:34 -0400
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Scott Quinn wrote:
Vax is good but PDP-11 is it's foundation and of the 16bitters it's a very
nice cpu.
Allison
On the positive side, what is the most perfect
computer architecture + implementation people have come across here?
Tell us why, especially if it's something like PERQ or Acorn RISC/pc that is not
common outside of a limited geographic area.
I really dig z/Arch. Extreme CISCy goodness. MMMmmmMMMmmmMMM.
Extreme pleasure in writing assembler.
Peace... Sridhar
If you just want to play around with a lot of different
CPU
architectures to see what they were like, the 'simh' series of
emulators might be a place to start. Most of them are sturdy
enough to run a real OS, and they have the ability to work
at the instruction level. Includes a simple assembler/
disassembler for each CPU.
Lets you play with a lot of hardware before deciding you want
to spend actual money on them.
Having the opportunity to play with everything DEC from PDP-8 through
Alpha and having working PDP-8F, PDP11 (11/03, 11/23, 1173) and
MicroVAXen of all sorts a sim is unsatisfying. Going from PDP-8 and
PDP-10 to the 8008 was real culture shock (what instruction set?).
Having done the whole 8080, 8085, z80, 808x thing makes me appreciate
the word orthogonal. The comprehensive list of micros worked with
even includes those never discussed here (those nasty little 4bitters).
and yes I do like the VAX. From the CISIC view I really like the
PDP-11 as it's simple but all there. From a minimalist view the PDP-8
is about as reduced as one can get though the 1802 is pretty inspired
in that area..
I still smile when someone says My cpu is better than yours. After all
it just might be for something. ;)
Allison