The y have used Fairchild for their source.
If so, that explains the high rate of failure.
Years ago when at Intel, we disqualified Fairchild
as a source for parts because of the poor testing
and high failure rates.
Dwight
________________________________
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of curiousmarc3 at
gmail.com <curiousmarc3 at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 12:12:14 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: the value of old test and repair equipment
For some reason the 7474's have a higher failure rate than other TTL IC's in HP
equipment. I don't know if it's true in general for 1970's TTL. Signetics MSI
chips (counters and stuff) seem to be prone to failure too.
Marc
All this talk of older test equipment reminds me of the HP 4261A LCR
bridge I repaired a while back, last winter I think.
My dad found the 4261A in the garbage years ago, and it seemed to work
fine, until one day he powered it up and the display showed garbage.
He decided to open it up, and noticed some uncovered windowed EPROMs.
Knowing that EPROMs sometimes flip bits in their old age, we decided
that was the first place we would look. We were also able to locate
the full HP service manual in PDF form for the instrument which helped
tremendously. In typical HP fashion, it had full theory of operation,
schematics, state diagrams, etc.
Now, I have an EPROM burner that does your typical JEDEC pinout parts,
27 series and such. The issue is that these were Intel i1702A's from
the early 70's I think. Not only are 1702's a totally different
pinout, but they run on 14V (a +5V, and a -9V rail, with no connected
ground, this is how intel got TTL levels on a MOS chip at the time).
The 4261A has a total of 4 1702's, two of which form a finite state
machine which controls the instrument, while the other two perform
display decoding.
I had to pull out my dad's DeVry Console 80, which has adjustable
positive and negative supplies, and I manually clocked out the data
and compared the contents to a dump I found online. I started with the
state machine EPROMs, and compared the data. I did find a few
discrepancies, but there was too much difference to have been bit rot.
Given the sudden nature of the issue, I would have expected one, at
most a couple bit flips, or something much more drastic (like total
chip failure). Upon reading through the state diagrams in the HP
manual, I noticed that there was a change noted in the state diagram
between certain minor revisions of the 4261A. I looked at what the
changes were, and deduced that my ROMs were in fact correct for the
serial number prefix.
At a dead end with the EPROMs, I decided to see if the state machine
was even running at all. I used a DVM in DC mode, and measured perfect
TTL ones and zeroes on all the state number outputs, which means those
outputs weren't changing: the state machine was stuck. I wrote down
the state it was stuck in and referred to the state diagram. I noticed
something interesting. The state machine in the 4261A is able to
evaluate simple conditions and control flow based on those. The state
path to get to the state that the FSM was stuck on meant the FSM was
always taking one of the conditional paths (always true, or always
false, I don't remember which). At that point, I started looking into
the condition circuitry, tracing out the path, checking IC's as I
worked my way back, until I made it back to 1/2 of a 7474 which had a
set input that was stuck active (low). This pin went to a pullup
resistor, and nothing else in our unit (certain options used this pin,
but not ours). We desoldered the IC, and sure enough, that pin was
shorted to ground internal to the chip. We replaced it with a 74LS74,
and the 4261A has been working great ever since, even with the
original 40 year old 1702's.
Also, on the topic of interesting HP products, and perhaps my personal
favorite so far, is the HP dynamic signal analyzer 35670A. This
instrument can perform all sorts of cool measurements. It can produce
a test signal, and measure two different points in the circuit being
measured. The measurement input channels give you a complex number
phasor of the measured signal, which means you can do all sorts of
cool measurements of networks, especially since you can do complex
number math with the equation support of the instrument. The signal
generator will perform sweeps too, of course. This was very useful
determining whether the speaker crossovers my dad built were working
as intended (actually they weren't, and this instrument helped us
uncover a problem). We also used this to do inductor and capacitor
characterization. There are all sorts of applications this instrument
is good for.
Joe Zatarski