16 Oct
2007
16 Oct
'07
6:08 p.m.
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:57:18 -0400
From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch-cctalk at 30below.com>
Subject: Re: Taken: AT 286 motherboard with mathco
Rumor has it that M H Stein may have mentioned these
words:
>You won't convince me that there isn't far
more activity in this area today
>than there was then, in part just because it's so much more affordable and
>mainstream world-wide; how many people in Russia, China or India were
>playing with computers in the 70s? Even if only .00001% ever take the
>cover off their computer, that's still a lot of additional tinkerers.
When anyone starts out with "You won't
convince me..." and you don't have
_hard numbers_ then it doesn't matter who has what facts...
... but for that matter, I'd disagree with you
anyway... for the simple
fact that you're looking at *sheer numbers.* I'd look at it as a per-capita
number: The number of people who dug deep into their computers as a ratio
of the total number of people who actually had computers (say... 20 years
ago) IMHO would be higher than today. There might be more projects overall,
but the number of projects in comparison to the number of people who just
use their computers as toasters as a ratio is lower.
But as you're not convinced for anything for any
reason, it would be
pointless for me to tell you about it. ;-)
---------------------
No, you can't *convince* me because I already agreed with your viewpoint ;-).
What are you "disagree"ing with? I think you said exactly the same thing I did,
that it's almost certain that more people are digging into their computers today
than back then just because there are so many more people with computers,
while it *is* probably true that for various reasons fewer people who own or have
access to computers are tinkering with them. Maybe you missed my original
post where I said, "perhaps the *percentage* of computer owners who dug into
the hard/software was higher then, but most of the time you *had to*, whereas
today most of it is done for fun and enjoyment, as well as pride of accomplishment."
(Note the "probably" and "perhaps," since I *don't* have hard
numbers ;-) Since
you're picking nits, I'll even amend that to "almost certainly;" happy?
Computers are more reliable and harder to tinker with at the hardware level
today and people have a lot more options how to spend their spare time;
so what? There's still a lot more overall activity and with all the forums and
Web sites like this one it's a lot broader, more fun and not as socially isolated
today, at least as far as I'm concerned; hackers like us were probably (!) more
outside of the mainstream back then, and the chances of someone understanding
what you mean by GHz or MBs are probably (!) better today.
I still don't see why case mods, seeing how far you can push speed with
water-cooling etc., or programming a CPLD instead of burning your fingers on a
hot soldering iron should be excluded; that sounds a little like old-fogey-ism
to me. Times have changed and folks are doing what's relevant and possible today
for mostly the same reasons and satisfaction as then; more often than not that
involves modern approaches to *old* hardware & software because it's almost
impossible to do some of the things we used to, due to the complexity, inaccessibility
and lack of documentation of most of today's hardware.
I think a lower percentage of people having to spend time dealing with flaky and
unreliable
hardware, poor/buggy software and tools, incompatible disk formats, etc. is a good
thing; my enjoyment of that sort of thing may well be a symptom of a mental disorder.
Sheesh; like I said, 'nuff said.
m