14 Dec
2009
14 Dec
'09
10:55 a.m.
Liam Proven wrote:
Jolly interesting & good for you for not only keeping it alive but
also putting up a lovely simple clear smart-looking webpage to teach
people about it.
If I might be permitted one small cavil... the possessive "its" takes
no apostrophe, any more than its close kin-words "his", "hers",
"ours"
or "theirs". Every one makes some of us flinch in discomfort. It's the
only thing wrong with an otherwise-immaculate display, and as such, I
thought I'd draw it to your attention...
Thanks for the comments; the "its" issue I am aware of.
In a spirit of discussion (not contention) I'll make a reply here; as Alexandre
suggests, more should probably be off-list. Below is some reply I made in
discussing the topic with another fellow.
The comparision with "hers", "ours", etc. is not quite symmetric in
that those
words indicate possession without the "s", whereas as "it" does not.
(For my part, I cringe every time I hear someone use the word "hard" when they
mean "difficult" - a battle I'm not about to win.)
---- EXTRACT ----
... I'm aware there is a commonly-held rule to distinguish
the cases as you indicate, however the apostrophe is valid in both cases
according to other standard rules of English and the intention is generally
(always?) distinguishable from surrounding context. In other words, I've never
seen the need to distinguish the cases, so why bother with an additional rule.
...
...
I appreciate your point about reducing distraction for those in the know, and
I agree these things matter but my position is one of reasoned dissension,
not an arbitrary personal preference. The point is that the rule is unnecessary.
The words are homonyms, so there is no distinction in the spoken language and I
have yet to see an instance of need to distinguish them in the written language
for clarity of intent or meaning. In debates or research I have yet to hear a
reasoned justification for the existence of the rule, other than "there is a
rule".
In contrast, your/you're and there/their/they're, even though homonymns, have
substantive justifications behind them that inhibit their exchange.
The following link provides a better explanation/justification for the rule
than most (apostrophe for possessive on nouns but not pronouns, most sites
just specify the rule):
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-difference-between-its-and-its.htm
but note a couple of the comments:
<quote>
As one who has been lucky enough to have a facility for spelling and grammar,
mistakes such as its and it's always irritate me. I can understand why people
are confused about it, though, and wonder if one day we will change the correct
usage to "it's" in both cases? There seems little point in making a
distinction.
The split infinitive was also a bone of contention; now that is considered
acceptable.
- petermo
</quote>
<quote>
The use of the pronoun "its" with the apostrophe (it's) was in common use
to
denote singular possession up until the end of the 18th century. The practise
of using the apostrophe then declined but I understand was used by Dickens in
his novels and continued to be used by other writers into the 20th century.
Certainly when I was at school 1950's - 60's I was taught that it was still
appropriate to use. I have seen it used recently and I suspect that rather than
wrong usage the authors were taught as I by similar teachers to myself. I am
English and was educated here in London.
- anon11993
</quote>
It's natural language, some rules are not hard-and-fast.
---- END EXTRACT ----