7 May
2015
7 May
'15
7:05 p.m.
On 05/07/2015 01:07 PM, Dave G4UGM wrote:
Well, I'm pretty sure that the Concordes have been 100%
preserved, other than the one that crashed. True also for
the shuttles.
But, no, there is a list of known/suspected/rumored 360's,
and it lists 15 or 16 "real" 360 processors (I'm excluding
the 360/20, of which they list 5 units.)
There are several KA10's RUNNING! Compared to how many of
those were built, there seem to be a LOT higher percentage
of those still extant than of the 360's. (Maybe a bunch are
still to be revealed, I suppose.) And, I'm pretty sure
there are NO 360's running. The LCM is trying to get a
360/20 running. Maybe they are going to start with a small
project before attempting something harder.
Jon
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jon Elson
Sent: 07 May 2015 18:17
To: General at classiccmp.org; Discussion at classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off-
Topic Posts
Subject: Re: 360/50 microcode listing
On 03/13/2015 01:32 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
I think that you are not comparing like with like. How
many KA10's are there left as that?s the DEC System/10 that?s comparable with the
S/360. If you want to compare IBM Mainframes with DEC System/10 then you need to include
S/360, S/370 and 43xx boxes. Now there may be few S/360's but there are 370's and
I am sure there are many 43xx boxes.
However I think that the quantity of preserved mainframes is dire when compared with
other items of "technology" history. There are hundreds of preserved static
steam engines, steam locomotives, vintage , veteran and classic cars or automobiles (not
that vintage and veteran have specific definitions in relation to cars/automobiles),
radios and TVs etc. I am sure there are more concorde aeroplanes and possibly even space
shuttles than there are S/360's...
CHM was able to obtain volumes 18-20 of the IBM
2050 drawings, which
are the microcode charts and ROS dump. I got them scanned and uploaded
yesterday to http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/360/fe/2050
This was one of the things that I had been trying to locate for a
while now.
Just a curious thing I've noticed. Given the historic significance, and the
large
number of machines produced, I'm kind of amazed at the incredibly small
number of 360's that apparently exist.
Yes, I know, any would-be collector could drag home a PDP-8 and put it in his
garage, even a whole rack mount system with an RK02 (or 3), dectape and
paper tape reader, and still get his car in the garage. And, the system could
be run off normal mains power.
You can't do that with a real 360 (some 360/20's were pretty small), even a
360/30 was a pretty big box. And, you can't run a 360 off normal residential
power, either. Many of the peripherals used 3-phase motors, and hacking
the converter/inverter to run off single phase would not be a task for any but
the most experienced EE.
But, it sure is a shame that there appear to be a tiny number of machines in
existence. One list shows 15 or 16 machines, excluding the model 20.
Probably there are a couple more hidden somewhere, like the B1900 that
came to light so recently.
As fas as I can tell, NONE of these systems is complete enough to ever run,
with the possible exception of the
360/30 at the CHM, which does seem to have a complement of peripherals,
and maybe control units, too.
Given the number of DEC 10's that are actually up and running, this seems a
bit of a surprise. there might be some emotional attachments that are
behind this disparity.
Anybody have some comments?