16 Nov
2002
16 Nov
'02
11:24 a.m.
The Altair board I bought because it contained an Intel C8080 CPU is
currently in my collection waiting on the day I obtain an Altair 8800 that
does not have an original
CPU board that I can restore back to original condition. Surprized?
I've actually bid on a number of Altair 8800's on EBAY but have not won one
yet.
What would I do with an Altair 8800? I'm not sure. I would like to have
one
simply for it's historic value but there's no way in hell I would hang out
with
people like you if that's what it took to restore it to working order.
Sellam, you
come off as an arrogant a-hole. It's a shame that the vintage computer
community can not find someone with a better bed side manner to promote your
hobby.
That said, I'm sure you are a brilliant dude and you probably think you are
doing
what's best for your hobby but I think you are going about it in the wrong
way.
Let me give you an example. "People" (lots of them), from kids doing book
reports, to chip collectors search the net looking for information on early
processors. What do they find? They find these threads on this forum and
they see you as an example of the kind of people involved with vintage
computers.
Then they email me. I give them whatever info I can to help them but they
usually end up volunteering a few comments about you. I'm sure this thread
will generate a number
of new emails like this over the next few months. Perhaps I should save
them and
post them here. Do you really want to know the kind of impression you are
giving thousands of people interested in vintage computers? I'll be glad to
show you. I think you might be surprized at who some of the people are and
what
they had to say about your previous posts.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sellam Ismail" <foo(a)siconic.com
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 3:50 AM
Subject: Re: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it]
> 1. Most chip collectors are very particular about protecting their
chips.
like
"rare"
chips
machines
That
abandoned
to
Festival
Oh no, another rant from a pseudonym.
On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, John Galt wrote:
> I'm a chip collector and I would like to take a moment to defend my
hobby.
> We just don't
> throw them in the bottom of a drawer like some "computer
enthusiasts".
I don't know of any computer you can just "throw in the bottom of a
drawer" (unless you're talking about a Sinclair ZX81 or some handheld).
But even then, collectors don't throw their computers in the bottom of a
drawer.
from
I could not
count the times that I've bought chips on EBAY auctions that were
displayed
loose in a coffee can from someone who had found them in grandpa's
shop.
Do you really think these chips are better off going in the trash
than into some
chip collectors collection?
Yes, yes. We've heard your arguments before. But we aren't talking about
loose chips in a tin can. We're talking about pillaging working boards
for chips. If you're going to respond to a thread, at least respond
within the context (no straw men here).
> 2. Once a chip ends up in a chip collectors collection it's not gone
the face
of the earth. It's carefully preserved for future generations.
Yes, thank you. But hopefully it didn't come out of a board that is now
gone from the face of the Earth. For instance, what happened to that
Altair CPU board you bought because you wanted the CPU?
> 3. The argument that a chip is better off inside a vintage computer is > saying
> a coin is better off in circulation serving its "intended" purpose
than
in some
collectors collection.
If that's where the chip came from then yes, it is. By removing the chip
from a computer it once powered or helped work, you are removing it from
its historical context. From a hobbyists point of view, you are taking
something that once worked, removing one part of it that will make it
unfunctioning, and then relishing the one, now non-functioning, part over
the whole in which it once ran.
> 4. Many of the chips that chip collectors pay alot of money for are
> varieties
> of "common" chips. For example, an Intel C8080 vs. C8080A.
Vintage
> computer enthusiasts don't
"need" an Intel C8080. In fact, you
would
probably
be better off with the more common and "improved" C8080A.
Well, chip collectors don't really "need" an Intel C8080 either, when a
C8080A will do quite nicely as a representative sample, right? Unless
you have a cereal box prize mentality and must "collect all 8!"
> 5. I think that alot of vintage computer enthusiasts think that chip
> collectors are
> out there busting up Altair 8800's with sledge hammers to get the
> out of
> them. That's simply not true. Chip collectors hang out on in the
same
> areas of EBAY that you do. We know full
well what rare machines
are
> worth.
> I'll assure you, chip collectors are not breaking up old machines
for
chips.
What happened to that Altair CPU board?
> In fact, it's just the opposite. I know a number of vintage
> that have
> been "saved" by chip collectors because they recognized what they
were.
Examples? What happened to the chips?
> If you really want a supply of vintage chips for your vintage
machines
> in
> 20-30 years then you should be glad that a C8008 brings $100 on
EBAY
> because of chip collectors. The reason you
should be glad is
because
> as the
> word gets out that the early chips are worth money, less of them
will
end up
in the trash.
You're assuming some chip collector 20-30 years down the road will be
willing to part with his rare C8008 that is now part of his amazing
collection of dead silicon. Because in all likelihood that's what it will
be anyway: dead.
> that you guys have and not because of the chips in them either. said,
we also recognize that the chips themselves have historic value and
should
be preserved.
And we do too. We're the greatest chip collectors because we have whole
computers full of them.
> Many chip collectors would like to one day obtain a
> working vintage machine but I know more than a few who have > this idea once they figured out that many
vintage computer
enthusiasts
have such
a negative view of chip collectors.
Bullshit. You keep making this silly remark. I believe this is your
opinion and your opinion alone. You're not gaining any sympathy.
> The same younger computer enthusiasts are the very people you need > keep your
> hobby going but the sad thing is, many of the same people will try
and
> entire
> your world from the world of chip collecting and be totally turned
off
by your
attitudes toward chip collectors.
Blah blah. Name one chip collector that has been turned off by the
comments on this list. Now name all the chip collectors you steered away
from this list because you feel we are biased against chip collectors.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
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