VAXstation 4000/90

Hi, anybody out there playing with Vax's? Trying to work out if I have connect the terminal correctly or if the logic board is dead. I posted on openvmshobbyist.com, but that forum seems pretty sleepy. Is there any other forum for VMS thats active?

Regards, Daniel. Sent from my iPad On 28/07/2013, at 1:00 AM, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > Send cctalk mailing list submissions to > cctalk at classiccmp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cctalk-request at classiccmp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cctalk-owner at classiccmp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: LCD rot? (Eric Smith) > 2. Re: LCD rot? (David Cooper) > 3. Aug. 3-4-- HUGE lot of vintage micros f/s @ MARCH event in > central NJ (Evan Koblentz) > 4. Available N8VEM PCBs on Vintage-Computer Marketplace > (Andrew Lynch) > 5. Paging Glen Slick (Alexandre Souza) > 6. Re: LCD rot? (Chris Pye) > 7. Re: HP 9830A always turns on with blank display (Tony Duell) > 8. Re: Help identifying component(s) (Tony Duell) > 9. Re: HP 9830A always turns on with blank display (Tony Duell) > 10. Re: LCD rot? (Tony Duell) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 10:32:52 -0600 > From: Eric Smith <spacewar at gmail.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: LCD rot? > Message-ID: > <CAFrGgTSj7sKF3yo-Mxqns=CFNARan5f_EuzFZCpC=q9QsvrRNA at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Geoffrey Oltmans <oltmansg at gmail.com> wrote: >> Heat might do it I suppose. I wonder if you could "wake" them back up by >> forcing each pixel full on/full off over and over? > > If there's a black line consisting of a full line or lines of pixels, > that's most likely caused by either a fault in the driver for that > line, or a failure of the electrical connection. Cycling the pixels > won't help with that. > > There's a lesser chance of dead lines being caused by having a DC bias > on that line for an extended period, which shouldn't happen except in > a failure of the LCD controller. Cycling the pixels could help with > that, but if the controller failed to cause it, it's unlikely that the > controller has started working correctly again. Since this kind of > failure only occurs when the LCD is powered up with the controller not > working for an extended period of time, it's not going to result from > having the LCD being stored unpowered for an extended time. > > The black blob problem, which usually eventually reaches the all-black > case, is caused by a chemical change (oxidation?) of the liquid > crystal material, and I don't think there's anything you can do > electrically that's going to fix or even reduce the problem. AFAICT > that's caused by the seal failing, which can be caused by temperature > extremes, but sometimes just happens as a result of aging. > > It can also be caused by mechanical pressure between the glass layers, > but leaving it sit for a few years, even with wide temperature swings, > shouldn't cause it in that manner. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 10:24:46 -0700 > From: "David Cooper" <trs80 at marmotking.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>, > "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: LCD rot? > Message-ID: <14085220AD444885BF8F13AF1B3BA985 at planetx> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I've seen it happen on all sorts of LCD displays no matter how they were > stored. I think LCDs must just not age well. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dwight elvey > Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 6:19 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: LCD rot? > > > >> From: pye at mactec.com.au >> Subject: LCD rot? >> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 23:01:03 +1000 >> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >> >> I have just pulled a heap of old Apple PowerBooks and Newtons out of >> storage, and have discovered that quite a few of the LCDs that were >> perfect last time I looked at them (some probably not for seven years ago >> now) have deteriorated to the point that they are no longer usable. >> Problems vary from big black splotches on mono screens, to colour screens >> with almost the entire display from the centre out showing only the >> backlight. >> >> What are the causes for these kind of problems? Heat? Humidity? >> >> They have been stored for the last six or seven years in a cool dry >> environment, but did spend one summer in a storage facility that could >> have reached 40 deg c at times. >> >> Chris > The seal around the edge of the screen has failed.It may be the high heat > that does it??Dwight > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 16:13:02 -0400 > From: Evan Koblentz <evan at snarc.net> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Aug. 3-4-- HUGE lot of vintage micros f/s @ MARCH event in > central NJ > Message-ID: <51F2D84E.6040601 at snarc.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi all. Remember this thread: > http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?37642-NJ-USA-Large-l… > .....? Now it's time for we in MARCH to sell everything on the owner's > behalf. > > Rules are what you'd expect: nothing's being tested; nothing's being > shipped; cash only; no parting out; no "dibs"; etc. .... you've got to > BE THERE or be square. > > The following list is around 90% accurate. I might have mis-counted, for > example, where there are more than one of the same machine. Also, the > owner said there's a few other random items that will be available. And > last but not least, we in MARCH might grab one or two specific things > for the club collection; for example we might want one or two of the > Franklins. > > Keep in mind, the Aug. 3-4 event is NOT the VCF East -- that's not until > next April -- this event is primarily a vintage computer repair weekend. > Entry is $10. > > Without further ado, here's the rough list: > > Amstrad PPC640 > > > Apple II+ (x2) > Apple IIc (several...) > Apple IIe (x4) > Apple IIgs (x4) > Apple Lisa II (possibly XL; not sure) > Mac Classic > Mac SE > Mac 512 > Mac Plus 1MB > Mac IIcx > Mac IIci (x4) > Mac II > Mac II Plus > Mac Powerbook 170 > Mac LC > Mac LC3 > Mac Quadra 605 > Mac Quadra 950 > Mac Quadra 800 > Mac Quadra 700 > Mac Quadra 800 > Mac Quadra 700 > Mac Portable > Disk II (x4) > misc. Apple kb+drives > > > AT&T Unix PC > > > C-64 > VIC-20 (x2) > > > Compaq 286 > Compaq 386 in nice case > Compaq Portable 3 > Compaq SLT 286 > Compaq portable 286 > Compaq portable 386 > Compaq portable 486C (x2) > > > DEC Rainbow > DEC Rainbow 100 > > > Epson HX-20 > > > Franklin ACE 500 (x2) > Franklin ACE 1000 > Franklin ACE 1200 > Franklin ACE 2100 > > > box of Model M keyboards > IBM 5155 > IBM 5140 (x3) -- one has a nice case > IBM Power Station 340 > IBM Power Server 32xx > IBM 8573/121 portable with case (x2) > > > Osborne > > > "random box of laptops" > > > TRS-80 Model 1 > Tandy 4D > Tandy 4P > Tandy CoCo 3 > Tandy Model 2 > Tandy 8MB HD (x2) > Tandy 6000HD (x2) > Tandy 12 > Tandy CoCo > Tandy Model 100 > Tandy Model 3 > Tandy CoCo2 (boxed) (x2) > > > Kaypro II (x2) > Kaypro 4 > Kaypro 2000 > > > Spark Server 1000 > Spark storage array > Spark Voyager > > > TI Professional Computer > TI Silent 700 > > > Toshiba T1600 > Toshiba 3200 SCX > Toshiba 4700CS > > > Zorba luggable > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 16:44:10 -0400 > From: "Andrew Lynch" <LYNCHAJ at YAHOO.COM> > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Available N8VEM PCBs on Vintage-Computer Marketplace > Message-ID: &lt;009c01ce8a40$e1ed04f0$a5c70ed0$(a)YAHOO.COM&gt; > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi > > I am selling multiple vintage computer related items including N8VEM home > brew computer PCBs and parts on Vintage Computers and Gaming Marketplace. > > http://marketplace.vintage-computer.com/other_items.php?limit=100&owner… > 00048&item_type=all > > Please check out what's for sale and if anything interests you please > contact me. > > Thanks and have a nice day! > > Andrew Lynch > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 17:49:06 -0300 > From: "Alexandre Souza" <alexandre.tabajara at gmail.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Paging Glen Slick > Message-ID: <F22BDC533F2644B6BEBE0B70B0788066 at tababook> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > > Glen, I've sent you some private messages and got no answer, check your > spam folder! :o) > > --- > Enviado do meu Motorola PT550 > Meu site: http://www.tabalabs.com.br > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 08:38:20 +1000 > From: Chris Pye <pye at mactec.com.au> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: LCD rot? > Message-ID: <C961B4F6-C71F-4896-B200-1E16B9DF74A3 at mactec.com.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > On 27/07/2013, at 2:32 AM, Eric Smith <spacewar at gmail.com> wrote: > >> The black blob problem, which usually eventually reaches the all-black >> case, is caused by a chemical change (oxidation?) of the liquid >> crystal material, and I don't think there's anything you can do >> electrically that's going to fix or even reduce the problem. AFAICT >> that's caused by the seal failing, which can be caused by temperature >> extremes, but sometimes just happens as a result of aging. > > I wonder if it is possible to reseal or place an extra seal on existing old (but still good) displays to preserve them a bit longer. >> From my relatively small sample it seems that age alone does't have much bearing, as out of eight Powerbooks the two older PB100 are not affected (but they do have other problems). > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 22:47:32 +0100 (BST) > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: HP 9830A always turns on with blank display > Message-ID: <m1V2prO-000J4ZC at p850ug1> > Content-Type: text/plain > >> The original circuit has a voltage divider for the LDR formed with >> the 18.2K resistor in the lower half and the LDR to +5V, feeding the >> negative input of the 741, with the positive input fixed at 2.5V. The >> result is the 741 (comparator) will trip when the LDR resistance >> passes through 18.2KOhms. > > Agreed > > [...] > >> In your simulation, you used resistances for the LDR of 74K dark and > > I fial to see why you need to 'simulate' this circuit. The actual > comparator circuit, whether the origianl HP one iwth no feedback or the > intended modification is simple enopug hthat you can understand it in > your head. > > The dificult part is the sensor itself. Yes, you can measure the ligth > and dark resistances (and if they really are 74K and 4K then it should > work with an unmodified comparator circuit). But I don;t think you cna > simulatre the sensor more than that. There are too many unknowns. > >> 4K illuminated. That should have worked just fine with the original >> HP circuit, although it wouldn't work with the way you have actually >> modded the board. >> >>> I wrote it because it's a working (tested) solution for an actual >>> problem. >>> AND you can't just replace the CDSe type with a normal off the >>> shelf LDR >>> that doesn't work, I tried.. >>> >>> So be careful before just shouting something without testing it! >> >> I'm not shouting, I am being careful - far more than you, and I have >> repaired and done a fair degree of experimentation with these sensors >> (in one instance replacing the lamp/LDR pair with an IR LED/ >> phototransistor pair, and it didn't require any changes to the >> comparator circuit). > > Where are youre results/descriptions of this? Rik has desciribed what he > did, you have (quite probably correctly) found errors in it. But I don't > see your work published anywhere. > >> I haven't counted how many items I have reverse engineered, but it's >> many dozens, over a hundred I expect depending on what level of > > Is that all :-)? > > -tony > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 23:03:08 +0100 (BST) > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Help identifying component(s) > Message-ID: <m1V2q6T-000J4dC at p850ug1> > Content-Type: text/plain > >> Those are the little "tin cans" that IBM used, back in the early to mid >> '70s, to enclose (encapsualte) their "medium scale integration" -- an >> earlier generation, before the "LSI" (Large Scale Integration" chips >> took over pretty much everything. >> >> These were used in virtually all IBM products of that day, from >> mainfames, to minicomputers, to control units, and even inside other >> intelligent devices, like the disk drives and printers, etc., for the >> "logic" on-board ... > > As an aside, IIRC the sense amplifier circuit in the original PC and > PC/XT keybaord used one of those metal-can ICs. > > -tony > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 23:21:53 +0100 (BST) > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: HP 9830A always turns on with blank display > Message-ID: <m1V2qOe-000J4eC at p850ug1> > Content-Type: text/plain > >>> Secondly, IC pin numbers. Every IC has all the connecitons >>> unambiguously >>> described. If the pins all have unique names (like a RAM, or a >>> counter or >>> a '154 decodoe) then I simply use those names or something obviously >>> equivalent to them That is why tyou see things like signal BRA(2) >>> going >>> to a pin on an 11/03 RAM labeleld A0. BRA(2) is 'Buffered RAM Address' >>> bit 2. The 'bit 2' meanming it comes from address line 2 of the >>> processor >>> eventially. A0 is the pin on the RAM that Intel called A0 in the >>> databook. >>> >>> Nwo, for simpler TTL ICs, I have a convention. For things like AOI >>> gates >>> I put the pins in alphabetical order from the TTL databook going >>> dwon the >>> page. And for simple gates I draw them so that the 'upper' pin on the >>> schemtic is towards the pin 1 end of the IC. So that, for example >>> >>> >>> ---------|\ >>> | >o--------- >>> ---------|/ >>> U5c >>> '00 >>> >>> >>> Means >>> >>> 10 >>> ---------|\ 8 >>> | >o--------- >>> ---------|/ >>> 9 U5c >>> '00 >>> >>> THis may not be obviouus, but all you had to do was ask me... > > If forgot to add that the only non-obvious oen is section 'a' of a triple > 3-input gat like the '10 or '27. The convention then is > > 1----|\ > 2----| >0--- 12 > 13---|/ > > > >> While one may want to communicate with an author about more subtle >> aspects of their work, this is such a basic thing I see no need for >> asking, and waiting, for an answer about it. I can't say it would >> even occur to me to ask, as if you have a convention about it, it > > I have sene this convention used so many times that it never occured to > me to describe it. > > In any case... The ouptus of all ICs are unambiguous. I don't think there > are any ICs in the HP9830 that have 2 identical output pins you could > confuse. In which case you could simply trace the few signal (often just > 2) at the input of the gate back ot the outputs that drive them and 'buzz > them out' with an ohmmeter. It would take less time to do that for the IC > you are interested in than to post this message. > >> could simply be noted at the beginning or end of the work, along with >> such things as source material identification, dates, table of >> contents, etc. >> As a matter of preference, when working on something, I don't want to >> have to go from the schematic, then to a pinout to interpret what pin >> is being ref'd, and then to the device. > > And I have the opposite preference I am afraid. I find pin numbers on > scheamtisc to be irritating. In most cases I know the common TTL pinouts > anyway. For anything else I don't mind having the data book open. > >> >> Here are some disadvantages to hand-drawing, aside from basic clarity: >> 1. The low density means the schematic is spread across more pages. > > There is no inherrent reason why a hand drawn scheamtic has a lower > component density than a CAD one. > > The limitation on the number of compoentns o na bit of ppaer is > obviosuly due to the size of that paper. The limitation for a CAD system > is the size of the 'virtual paper'. > > And I find 'large' CAD diagrams to be a right pain. If you want a printed > copy, you either end up with a much reduced copy which is close to > unreadable, or a number of sheets that have to be lined up and stuck > together. I much preer diagrams desigend to be printed or drawn on A4 sheets. > >> 2. The difficulty of modifying and manipulating a hand-drawing, >> along with the low density, >> results in more symbolic connections. Symbolic connections, >> while of course useful, >> are disadvantageous in that it is not readily clear where all >> the uses of a signal are. > > I think like you imply here I actually prefer symbolic names provided > they are meaningful (I ahve seen commerical multi-page diagrams where the > signals are just A...Z, AA,AB...AZ, etc) There are a few i nthe HP9830 > diagrams where I will admit not to pickign the most suitable name. > 'KeyDn/' is the obvious one, it's actualyl a general interrupt input to > the CPU. It goet that name becuase the first machien I looekd at was the > hP9810, and the only thing it's used for there is the keyboard. > > Yes, a CAD system would have made it easy to change this. But the other > disadvantages mean I did not use one. > >> 3. (2) is compounded in that the drawings are unsearchable. >> With a computer-based drawing, if one wants to find every >> reference >> to some signal/symbol, one just walks through it with a search. > > As an aside, I have never seen a commerical service manaul (on CD-ROM or > whatever) where yuo can search for signal neames on the schematics. > > >> 4. I don't expect OCR to be a remedy to (3). >> >> You have your preferences and conventions, I have mine, some may >> prefer yours, some may prefer mine. > > I think that;'s right. I took a look at your AL1000 schematics (BTW there > are a couple of broekn links there). In the form you have presented them > they are very useful for understnading how the machine works, I think, > but not so useful for actually repairing one. Wpoorkign out what is on > each board, what components comprise each gate and flip-flop (and yes, I > ahve read your conventions, etc) is too much to have to deal with if I > had the machine in bits in front of me. > >> This wasn't really about your schematic, it was whether it is >> acceptable for anyone else to RE something Tony already has. > > Yo uare reading far too much into this. > > I will just point out that _you_ raised the issue of my schematics. I > did not mention them at first. > > -tony > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 23:33:07 +0100 (BST) > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: LCD rot? > Message-ID: <m1V2qZV-000J4gC at p850ug1> > Content-Type: text/plain > >> >> I have just pulled a heap of old Apple PowerBooks and Newtons out of >> storage, and have discovered that quite a few of the LCDs that were >> perfect last time I looked at them (some probably not for seven years >> ago now) have deteriorated to the point that they are no longer usable. >> Problems vary from big black splotches on mono screens, to colour >> screens with almost the entire display from the centre out showing only >> the backlight. > > For monochrome LCDs, a black splodge genrally means the liquid crystal > material has leakced out. Rememebr that there are corssed poalraising > filters o nthe sides of hte display and that the unenrgized state of the > liquid crystal is to rotate the polarisation of light by 90 degrees. So > that an unergized dispaly transmitls like (looks 'light') but if the > liquid crystal material leaks out, you are essentially lookuing trhoug > corssed polarising filters with nothign to rotate the plane of > polarisation, so it looks black. > > As yo waht caues it, damage to the seals between the 2 layers of glass. I > susepct heat or mechanical shock is a common cause of this damage. > > -tony > > > End of cctalk Digest, Vol 119, Issue 36 > ***************************************