7 Sep
2014
7 Sep
'14
11:29 p.m.
Sean Caron wrote:
Wow.. yeah... that's what I'd like to avoid;
replacing hundreds of 7400
series TTL ICs... If I really had to replace them, I could probably get the
job down into the double-digit numbers of IC replacements by just reducing
the switch configuration a little bit...
Who doesn't want to avoid that?
The problem is, nobody tells you how much of chips are dying after ysour
replaced the last faulty one. Every time you think that this thing is ready
now for the next years.
Thanks for posting the link to the page about the logic analyzer from the
DDR. I'm very much enjoying reading it now. I always get a huge kick out of
seeing how they did things behind the iron curtain (though I'll keep my HP
1662A, thanks!)
I have a 1631D, 2 Tek 7D01 and this MC80-LA.
The MC80-LA is the biggest one because they used acase from some kind of
universal development system for the LA, including this 12" CRT. The Card
cage was also pretty much Standard (Robotron, GDR) with 170x215 mm cards.
Most of Robotron Z80 Systems used this configuration with the same bus
system. I don't have space on the deskt for really using this LA.
I wonder if there is much of a computer collecting community in the former
Eastern Bloc and, if so, how successful they have been in preserving
historical items from the Cold War era. Eastern Bloc engineers tried some
very interesting stuff over there in isolation from the "mainstream" in the
West... ternary logic, hybrid analog/digital CPUs, VLIW - before we ever
saw that "over here", etc.
The linked site is one from such a community, www.robotrontechnik.de.
They people there collect Items from robotron as the name already tells,
but not only that stuff. If you get in eastern PDP11's you find many
interresting russian sites too.
Russians are obscure from time to time :-).
They cloned entire machine designs, the stuff is looking from the outside
similar to the western original and is calles a clone.
But if you are looking at the inside most things are made totally
different. As an example there was much rumour about the cloned VAXes,
but the russians built the first VAX CPU on its own only from the processor
hanbdbook of the 11/750 .. but as a single IC! That integrated CPU never
existed in the US, so this is'nt really a clone at all.
Or this thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxRSEyj6twY
A Casio Clone? I've own a such looking casio calculator, but the russian
one has a PDP11 CPU.
Things you mentioned above (analog/digital, VLIW etc..) are currently
unknown to me. I don't know of saved machines like this.
I think some of this was an attempt to make up for trailing in process
technology and assembly quality with architectural cleverness (although as
Intel well demonstrates, he with the best process technology always wins in
the long run, architecture be damned, LOL), some was maybe just straight-up
old time engineering creativity at work. It's neat to see what people come
up with when they're a bit removed from the "prevailing knowledge"
(although there was certainly PLENTY of straight cloning of Western designs
being done as well).
Best,
Sean
Hmm, yes. The war of people wanting the Z8000 and others wanting the 8086
line of CPUs existed in the GDR (DDR) before the fall of the iron curtain
too. There where companies like EAW that build process control systems
around the Zilog processors (for sure the better architecture)
(http://www.robotrontechnik.de/index.htm?/html/computer/p8000.htm)
and wanted that line do be developed further and the "Big Blue" of the GDR,
robotron that wanted the 8086 Series. But the small country hasn't had enough
recources to do both of them..
I have some Kind of Zilog S8000 "compatible" System running Unix (Zeus
clone) on a 4Mhz Z8000.
That was'nbt really a S8000 Clone, the system was build out of 3 SBC
connected thogether (Z80 for floppy I/O and serail interfaces, the Z8000
CPU Board with Memory Cards in slots and another z80 card for the
Winchester drive 50MByte. The System was capable to run CP/M and RIO
Compatible OS'es on the Z80 part too).
http://www.robotrontechnik.de/index.htm?/html/computer/p8000.htm
http://www.robotrontechnik.de/index.htm?/html/computer/p8000compact.htm
There existed a subsystem with an 80286 and extra memory for that machine
too, so this thig was able to run DOS on the 80286 over the serial
connected terminal. So the available OSes for that thing where OS/M (CP/M),
UDOS (RIO), WEGA (Zeus Unixi, V7 with Extensions) and finally MSDOS.
Regards,
Holm
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