25 Jan
1999
25 Jan
'99
4:50 a.m.
] I personally feel the 10 year "rule" is
useful as a guide, however, I also
] consider that there are several machines that rightly qualify as "Classic
] Computers" that are less than 10 years old. There is a particular
"grey"
... snippage ...
Unless the list-maintainer gets active,
"on-topic" is by concensus.
If I may add here - he _is_ active - not acting as teh big boo-boo
doesn't mean beeing non existent - After all, I guess nobody wants
a dictatoric on/of topic thing.
We all started with the ten-year rule in the sign-on
message, but it
is obvious that not everybody takes that seriously.
So, since it is a matter of concensus, here is my
vote.
1. Ten years is just a guideline. If something is
only 9 years old,
I won't much mind hearing about it. I might even like it. But if
it is only two or three years old, there must be a surviving
users-group or something. Go find it, or start your own, but please
don't clutter up my mailbox with it.
THere are 'surviving' user groups for machines that are
_way_ older than 9 years - and before getting deeper into,
this is not a user group !
And for the mailbox thing - what about a filter ? No, serious,
from my simple point, all this /11/ stuff is useless
(help, no,
no, I didn't mean is - pleeeeease :) and just adds trafic. But
I also read them, or at least open them and have a look, since
sometimes, beside stupid facts, how to configure a special card,
or device, there are beautiful insights and stories - and BTW,
the 11 is not classic (since still available new, or at least
have been sold new less than 10 years ago) nor there is no other
support - there are _plenty_ of specialised lists, user groups
and news areas. I even learned to love this PERQ thing (now I
just need to get one :).
2. Nothing PC- or Mac-compatible can ever be classic.
Sorry, that's
just an indisputable fact. :-)
Boooo - shuld I throw my Apple II PC into the garbage ?
They are - no mater what rules you want to apply - they are
older than 10 years - there are no longer in production
models, there are machines with unique abilities, there
are units that made special imact in one or the other way
(or are famous for not having any impact at all).
3. Guns, cars, schools, Star Trek, and politics are
not classic computers.
(This is not to disparage people interested in those things, just to
point out that those discussions belong on other mailing lists.)
Guns ? Depending.
Cars ? At least related somewhat.
Schools ? Hey, this discusion was _very_ on topic at all !
Thats where our next collectors generation is growing, and
it's part of our mission to take our idea of old technik
use and preseravion to them. Themes like that is waht this
list makes so different - it's not just 'put this IC into
that socket' type of mails, it's about real people doing the
real thing in the real world, with all interactions. Not just
technik dummys.
And for the Star Trek part - Of course, ST had no infuence
to the idea of computers et all - you're right (BTW1: when
was the last occurance of ST in this list ? BTW2: OT: I'm
still searching on data for the Star Wars premiere)
4. Simply having origins in something that is classic
does not make a
thing classic. Otherwise *everything* would be classic.
But looking at the origins visible in a new product is still
a _very_ on topic thing - otherwise we would just ignore the
world of the last 10 years. And it's one of the most interesting
things about this hoby, to see how the things have evolved,
how small and insignificant (at this time possibly good) decisions
have breed new monsters (see A20 gate :). The advantage of an
historian is not only to review a specifig period, but also
trace the ways leading there, AND leading from there to 'now'.
5. The ten year rule should apply to the date when a
thing dropped off
in popularity; if it was still in common use eight years ago, it is
not yet classic. (Justification: if it is still in common use,
there will be other places to discuss it.)
If we go for an 'exact' date, I think the mfg date of the
specific unit is the only possible anchor - just think of
machines like the A2 - acording to your definition it wont
qualify. I would even go one step further and use the date
of first production as base for the rule (as often done
within the list - best practice rule). Just remember that
new machines always have been escorted by a increased
attention and speculation (no, not today :). This event
itself is classic and part of the history, and the acording
machine. No mater if the Mac is still in production or not,
the small guy, saying "I'm glad to be out of this bag"
_is_ classic, without any doubt.
6. Do I really need to add "IMHO" here? :-)
No, as always, we interprete anything we want into your
words :)
To get to an end: I still think the 10 year thing is a
thump rule, not a law - and as rule we don't need _exact_
fixings, since this would just force the development of
pseudo exact exemptions (Do I have to mention all these
laws, where our beloved politicians want to do is best,
and most exact as possible, and then spend the next 10
years to add sub laws without even touching the problem ?).
And, to say it once more, I don't think this list
'unmaintained' - our 'boss' is just _not_ one of
the I-know-it-all-and-I-will-rule-them guys.
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK