8 Jul
2004
8 Jul
'04
3:28 p.m.
Mike Gemeny wrote:
Some people at Hewlett Packard are willing to explore
an updated "Non-Commercial
Technology Enthusiast Software License" for older software products.
As a part of this process your input is encouraged. (By posting to the list HP would
be able to read your comments directly from the list archive, should they choose.)
Information on existing licenses is encouraged. (Existing DEC licenses, etc.)
This license is intended to add to existing Licenses and not to replace them.
Although, your input in this regard is also encouraged. (If you have problems
this would be a good time to get them out on the table.)
Just as HP is willing to look at this issue from our prospective, we would ask that
you also try to look at this issue from HP's prospective. (Don't just ask for the
moon.)
We would also like to ask if anyone knows the date of release of the last version of
HP1000 RTE and also if anyone may know the date of the End-Of-Life of the HP1000
product line. (Yes it would seem that HP was threatening to end-of-life the HP1000
as early as the late 70's or early 80's but we're looking for the final
end-of-life date.)
Some people at HP are considering a recomendation for a license to software that is
older
than some age, and/or products that were at end-of-life more than some number of years
ago.
(The desire seems to be to exclude newer software such as HP3000 MPE from the license.
The license
would include software such as HP2000 Access. Inclusion of software such as HP1000 RTE
is to-be-determined)
Thanks in advance for all of the thoughtful input that this thread is sure to attract.
Mike Gemeny
Jerome Fine replies:
As far as I can understand, for the PDP-11 software,
the Mentec hobby license allows certain old versions
(e.g. V05.03 of RT-11) to be used under an emulator
from DEC. In practice, this has been extended to mean
that SIMH is allowed as well.
However, it is possible, even likely, that Mentec still sells
sufficient RSX-11 licenses and software to commercial
users to still make a small profit. So perhaps HP may
not wish to include the latest versions of RSX-11 software.
As for RT-11, even the last version, V05.07, is now
almost 6 years old and the second last version, V05.06,
will be 12 years old next month. While I would certainly
suggest that 12 years is more than sufficient (especially
considering that V05.06 is not Y2K compliant), perhaps
6 years old is also long enough. As a compromise, perhaps
10 years old could be the dividing line. Also, there are
still many bugs in RT-11 with a few able to crash RT-11
when they occur - see 2nd last paragraph. On the other
hand, since current versions of VMS are available to
hobby users, I can't understand why there might be a
problem with the October 1998 V05.07 release of RT-11.
As for support, media and DOCs, OBVIOUSLY there
would be NONE! However, at least for RT-11, that
would likely NOT be a problem. As far as I can understand,
just let the hobby (NON-COMMERCIAL) users manage
by themselves. Just change the wording of the Mentec
hobby license to allow V05.07 and remove the restriction
on what hardware or emulator is used. Also, by this time,
include the source code distributions so that the hobby users
can support themselves in a reasonable manner.
These are my first thoughts and are probably insufficient.
Some might be too extensive, however, unless Mentec
is still making a profit on RT-11 and RSTS/E, I can't
see that opening up hobby to to be unlimited would be
a problem since I doubt that even reputable commercial users
outside of the US and Europe are paying Mentec anything
in any case. And reputable commercial users in the US
and Europe will likely continue to pay Mentec regardless,
although I really doubt that there are any left anywhere at
this point for additional sites for RT-11 and RSTS/E.
BUT, with hobby users having access to these operating
systems, it might be possible that Mentec might make some
additional sales due to having support from hobby users,
especially to get those bugs in RT-11 fixed as well as to
add enhancements to RT-11 if specific needs arise.
Just a few thoughts. Can anyone else also comment?
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
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