Networking a Macintosh SE/30

Hi, first, please apoplogize. I didn't and don't want to offend! It's just the way I feel from years of practice. Am 06.11.2012 um 01:02 schrieb Liam Proven: The definition of a "pleasant and productive environment" heavily depends on personal taste. :-) I'm running only a few extensions on the SE and LC. With the addidional 192K RAM Cache, this adds up to a 800KB System in RAM, with MultiFinder, without Finder. Maybe it's reasonably quick when it's running but booting is painfully slow on low end machines. Especially *with* extensions to provide a "pleasant and productive environment". ;-) Btw, modern standards: Are we talking of retrocomputing or are we talking to squeeze the last bits out of old machines so they can be used like new ones? This also applies to your opinion about AppleTalk. AT is running fine in my LAN. Several printers get their data via AppleTalk, many old machines exchange data with AppleTalk. Broad Cast depends on AT. Program Linking depends on AT (which I'm experimenting with the aid of the MPW shell). My Linux Box runs Debian 6 with a Debian-supplied Netatalk 2, so exchange of data is like a charm between all generations of Mac OS, If if comes down to machines not equipped with Ethernet or Token Ring, there's no other choice than running AppleTalk over LocalTalk. One may use MacTCP or Open Transport to encap IP into AppleTalk packets, so still IP is possible (with a maximum MTU of 576 Bytes). I have a LaserJet 4ML which is network capable via LocalTalk *only*. How can I print from my DOS-machine on this? Running Netware 3.12 in a VM, the print job gets to a Netware queue, rerouted via capture- command. From there, ATPS (Apple Talk Print Server) on Netware takes the job out of the queue and forwards it to the printer via AppleTalk. Works like a charm! I have a LaserJet 5100, equipped with a Token Ring network card. How can I print from my IIfx on this? HP Token Ring equipment doesn't talk AppleTalk. I'm printing into a Netware queue via AppleTalk. From there, the pserver.nlm takes the job and feeds it to the printer via IPX. AppleTalk may be obsolete but not unusable in retro-environments. It's still usable and is still a lot more easy than trying to make Sys 6 talk to an AFP-Server via TCP/IP Port 548. Many protocols can co-exist on a LAN. :-) I'm even running IPv6 on Token Ring. Recent Linux kernels can encap the packets the right way. Debian 6 is the current stable Deb-distro, I'm running on an AMD box. Not outdated - and still AT capable. When it comes do download from the web, I'm either using telnet to use wget on the linux box, or my G5 with Safari or Firefox which is way faster than a slow CPU overloaded with IP and slow browser code. From there I can transfer the stuff to the destination box. Via AppleTalk. You see, the extent of "you need TCP/IP" statement depends heavily on usage scenarios. There are still interesting Gopher sites and FTP Mirrors with old Mac stuff to use. And there's stil use of NewsWatcher. But, see above, downloading from old machines is painfully slow. If you want to have some kind of hardware-QoS to not saturate your internet connection, it's the fun way to go. :-) Even in 2012, there's more than just http in the Internet. Me either. So we're basically talkin' 'bout the same. Let alone, the way of usage seems to be different. Example: On my IIfx, I'm running Ircle, for chatting on an internal IRC-Network with a lot of friends. I'm running telnet to tail -f the system log of my linux box. I'm running MacX to see what XLoad tells about the usage of my Linux box. I'm running Newswatcher to read and answer interesting discussions in Mac centric usenet groups. I'm running Peter Lewis' talk(d) applications for copypasting Web-URLs from and to IRC or news articles, to watch on the G5. This is a very IP-centric usage. You may tell this usage as "mostly passive", which is true for most apps. But if I need it, I'm also running PageMaker 5 or FreeHand 3.1 for documentation use or drawing cirquit diagrams. But I use them preferred on my 7500 with a "G3"-Card @400MHz. This box still has 7.6.1 and 0,5GB of RAM - it runs like hell and the mentioned apps are really fun to use, because there's seldom wasted waiting-for-the- computer-to-catch-up-time. Sorry. I should not try to make a senseful discussion when being tired. Please apologize. DHCP is not a must-have. I'm running DNS on my Linux-Box in my LAN, so I don't want to have dynamic IP addresses. There's only a small DHCP- Range, just for "guest boxes", for netbooting XTerminals or my G5 when I need to run Disk First Aid, for a fast installation of Debian on friend's boxes. Any static (in terms of will-not-be-moved) machine has static IP-Adresses configured. I don't get the point why machines, which don't change networks (like a notebook, taken from place to place), need DHCP. Avoiding IP collisions? Is a matter of documentation. For me, my documentation is the DNS zone files. From CPU usage, OT *is* bloat, but as stated, on faster machines you win throughput. On slower ones (< 040) you lose throughput *and* RAM. The only win would be DHCP-capabilities and a more friendly config interface. Which is not worth the effort *for me*. To conclude, I try to use most of my old machines as old machines, with software which was more or less up to date when they were manufactured and/or mostly used. Most of these are unmodified in terms of "no accelerator boards". Just to get the real retro flash. ;-) This doesn't prevent them to be useful or productive. As stated on top, it's a matter of taste what one calls "being productive". So, please don't forcibly kill AppleTalk for everyone by stating it's not useful (to you). It is but it's a question of usage scenario. Don't tell OT is a general must-have. It just makes no sense on slow machines. Thanks. :-) :wq! PoC