List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?)

************************ Reply: M H Stein wrote: What dumb argument? Yes, one of the points of a list like this is to ask for and give help, but even in this day and age concepts like "please" and "thank you" and showing appreciation instead of complaining and taking others and their contributions for granted still have some value. The OP asked for information and help about 22disk and IMD and despite the denigrating tone of his questions the authors of both of these programs took the time to answer his questions at length and in detail, enabling him to resolve his issues, and apparently someone on this list also took the time to send him the TD disks that he asked for. What are his final words on the issue? Appreciation for those people and this list which gave him access to them? No, now that he got what he needed from the list he tells us, "I'm getting real, real tired of the tone on this list and will probably take a break from any posting here. Now I'm beginning to understand why folks like Sellam left." Not surprising; as I recall some people were also annoyed by Sellam's rude and insulting attitude and language and not entirely sorry to see *him* leave. If Chuck and Dave and the person who sent the disks had the same attitude and had left the list (and, considering the crap that Dave has had to put up with in the past I wouldn't blame him at all) then OP would still be staring at his 820 paperweight. When someone suggests to OP that his negative tone and attitude might annoy some people who might then be less eager to help him next time, then that might be seen as an opportunity to improve those "bad interpersonal skills" that you mention, instead of evoking a defensive response... m --------------------------- Nice to know at least one person gets what I was trying to say! I thought that there are two CCTalk lists: CCTalk for on *and* off topic posts, and CCTech for only on-topic posts. Therefore, I don't get why a few people have posted or emailed me insulting and provocative messages trying to push me around about what or what not to read and post (eg. Gordon). I only take posting orders from list moderators or owners. I'd been following the Xerox thread as I have some knowledge about it, but began to have reactions to how the OP Steven was utilizing the membership-at-large. I've only posted two "reactions" emails -- the few others were either on-topic, jokes, or explanation-of-jokes. I'm acquainted with this OP. I typically enjoy his posts in other groups, and have helped him out before, even once by testing video equipment he mailed to my house. So why my reactions? Putting aside Steve for a moment, once in awhile, I witness an OP come along and take these mailing lists and online groups for granted.. treating the really wonderful and astonishingly knowledgeable and smart people of these groups as *only* "resources" to do their bidding. There are "regulars" of this kind of behavior, and then there are those who just occasionally forget their manners due to excitement or having a rough time in life. Further, at these times, the "resources" are seemingly expected to drop everything they're doing like they're some help desk, and respond ASAP for whatever is needed since the OP's particular project is of the greatest import and urgency. Lastly, after the OP has usually managed to guilt-induce or otherwise garnish an incredible outpouring of help from the "resources," almost without fail the OP then expresses little to no appreciation! What??! Every time I witness this pattern, it amazes me. Well, I know it's not my job to protect memberships, but dammit, if something bothers me, I don't see why I shouldn't say something. Feedback between humans is essential for growth, period. Here's an example: if women had never told me how incredibly stupid I was being with them in my 20's and early 30's, I'd have never matured. I'd still be pining away as one girlfriend after another leaves me, without knowing why. Luckily, a few women were brave enough to slam me with the truth. It eventually hit home, I slowly grew up, and women stopped leaving me as quickly or at all (unless I wanted them to.. lol). Back to OP Steve. His approach (on this particular topic *only*) warranted feedback, plain and simple. He was coming across as spoiled, impatient, humourless, and bad moody. Not in every post. But in enough. "The real real tired of tone on list" comment was last straw for me. A huge outpouring of help, one little comment from me trying to encourage him to push himself a little harder, and now the TONE of this entire list is TIRING? Well, to that implied FU, FU too! My resultant comments, as Battle politely and privately pointed out to me, perhaps should have been emailed privately. Maybe I goofed, or maybe the feedback has more impact if it's public. Who knows. If an OP is going to denigrate the whole group and pack up their toys and go home just because ONE guy gives them a smidgeon of feedback they find unpleasant, despite the vastly greater benefits they derived, then maybe that's just what they need to do. It's their call whether they want to shoot themselves in the foot or not. Human interaction IS MESSY. It's always got good and bad, pleasant and unpleasant, elegance and sloppiness. I say, deal with it, listen to it, learn from it, be thankful it's there at all. jS