Language and English

Ian Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Note that this item is NOT published on the mailing list, since few people > will be interested in its content. That is how personalized replies > normally are handled in this environment. > > see below, plz. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Koller" <vze2mnvr(a)verizon.net> > To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>rg>; "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:06 AM > Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > Hello Dick, > > > > I get the impression, which may not be correct, that you > > may be retired, because of the greater amount of time that > > you are able to devote to reading and responding to newsgroup > > messages. > > > Contrary to what you apparently believe, this is not a newsgroup. This is a > mailing list, and one that's privately maintained, funded, and hosted. I'd > suggest you find out what a newsgroup is and then proceed. I'd also > suggest you consider why this list exists. It's a medium for communicating > information and thoughts germane to a specific topic. If your message is > not germane to that topic, if it contains no relevant information, or if it > reflects no thought, it should not be there. > > > > If this is so, that would mean you encountered an educational > > system at a previous date in time that may have been more formal > > than that which I encountered. > > > Nope ... I have two kids in expensive, out-of-state colleges thouseands of > miles away, and that doesn't allow me to sit on my duff and read nonsense, > not to mention oddly composed, incomprehensibly formatted, and poorly > spelled items, written in poor grammar and with incomprehensibly incorrect > syntax. > > If I were you, I'd not start on blaming the educational system for your own > inability to communicate in the prevailing language in our culture. If you > had attended all your classes, performed all the assigned reading and > writing, and taken the feedback from your teachers seriously, you'd be able > to express yourself precisely and accurately using the tools the system > provided. The fact that you don't shows that you didn't. > > I was actively engaged in assisting as well as monitoring the education of > my children as they went through the public education system. From that > experience I learned that one can still get the level of education necessary > to express onesself appropriately and accurately in terms of the common > mathematics and science and with reference to the same historical and > literary background that has traditionally been taught. It is a different > process than it was when I went through it, which I did in grades 6 through > 12, and onward, probably all well before you were born. > > > > Question. Did you ever study Latin? Was Latin offered in your > > school system? It was not offered in mine, but since I recently > > have been in contact with people in France, Italy, Germany, and > > Spain, I believe having studied the root language of all the > > "romance" languages would have proven helpful now. I'll bet that > > when Latin no longer became a requirement in many educational > > programs, there was more than one that must have felt that > > that was a sign of deteriorating standards. > > > No, I didn't study Latin, since people don't use it any longer. I was > studying English, which, as everyone knows, is NOT a romance language. > > Did you ever study FORTRAN (before FTN77) or COBOL? At least those are > still used ... occasionally. > > Latin was taught in order to teach the concept of structure and rigor. > Those are things clearly absent from your "stream-of-consciousness" writing > style, which suggests that, if you did study Latin, you didn't attend all > the classes or perform all the assigned work. > > English is a Germanic language, like, German, which also is not a romance > language, and is my "second" language, German having been the first. That > may explain why my adherence to precise grammar, syntax, and orthography > leans somewhat to the pedantic. > > I'd suggest that you take the extra moment or two to think about what you > need to say in the ClassicCmp mailing list environment BEFORE you say it, in > which case you won't have to defend it afterwards, which really isn't > necessary anyway. I'd also suggest you take time to consider the effect of > what you do to format, punctuate, and capitalize your writing on other > people's ability to read what you transmit. The mailing list isn't a "Chat" > room. It's not a place for idle chatter, nor is it a place to prattle on > about senseless things, though that happens from time to time. > > Oddly formatted messages become nearly unreadable on displays formatted > differently from yours, and there's little you can do about it, since you've > no control over the display system some folks use. Many of the users of > "the list" are in other countries, which means they're using a language with > which they're not familiar. > > The use of colloqialisms, particularly the use of esoteric abbreviations, > can render your messages unintelligible. The reason most of us use > "standard" English is that (1) because it's familiar to us, we can quickly > and easily read it, extracting the content with reasonable reliability, and > (2) because people not so familiar with popular idioms will not have to > spend time deciphering them. It's difficult enough sifting through the > computerese jargon. > > > I take time form my busy day to tell you all this because you may have > something of value to contribute. Learning, first and foremost, requires > exposure to information that one doesn't already have. If there's little of > that, and if your messages are difficult to read, your messages will > ultimately end up in the "kill file" rather than on the list of things > people read. That will, of course be transparent to you, since the listbot > will still distribute the things you transmit. It will just become a waste > of bandwidth, however. > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > Gee ... judging from the net unwillingness to use normal "adult" > > > punctuation, captitalization, etc, it does look as though you're doing > it > > > just to be "cute." I can't think of a single reason, otherwise, why one > > > would one do that? > > > > > > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to take > was > > > in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I did learn > that > > > a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for > example. > > > In about the first grade, I learned that the first letter in a sentence > is > > > customarily capitalized. Why? I don't know, but it appears to be the > > > custom. As a consequence, the absence of these basic features makes > one's > > > writing harder to read. The odd-length lines of text don't help > > > readability, either. It's also customary to insert a blank line between > > > paragraphs. That, surely, is to enhance readability. If you want > people to > > > read your stuff, you've got to make it easy for them. > > > > > > If you insist on writing in a style reminiscent of E. E. Cummings > poetry, > > > you may find that your messages are read by readers of this forum with > about > > > the same frequency as E.E. Cummings' work, which might be a shame, in > case > > > you really do have something significant to contribute. or in case I'm > the > > > only one who doesn't read much Cummings. > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <Golemancd(a)aol.com> > > > To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> > > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:13 AM > > > Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > > > > this may help > > > > i am 38 years old, so there is nothing about my typing style > > > > where i am trying to be cute. > > > > i collect any computer i can get my hands on. > > > > i am developing an operating system and a multimedia program > > > > to create movies. > > > > i use a newer computer to produce records. > > > > i am also working out, as i was talking about > > > > in the original thread that got off track, a distributed > > > > os to control robots and also a custom computer > > > > to do the same. > > > > > > > > i guess thats it. > > > > joee > > > > > > > > > > > >