29 Aug
2006
29 Aug
'06
3:14 p.m.
First, thanks to all for the rapid responses. This is definitely a
forehead slapper, with an appropriate, "Duh!" from me.
I'd definitely forgotten that MFM/RLL disks are formated 'in-situ' by
the chosen controller. I'm going back to the drawing board on this on.
But you guys have definitely given me the confidence now that I can boot
a uVAX without disturbing the drives contents. That's my problem. I
don't know enough to even help myself on these systems. So, thanks to all.
In response to Ethan's questions...
Ethan Dicks wrote:
Okay, I'm listening. Thanks to all for 'reminding' me of something I
should have already been aware of. :)
Given your problems you list further down the message,
what models
of uVAXen do you have, and most specifically, what disk controllers
(uVAX 2000-built-in, RQDX1, RQDX3...)?
Hmm...let's see.
The RD53 is from uVAX II with a RQDX3.
The RD54 is from a VAXstation 3200 with a RQDX3.
The RD23 is from a uVAX I with a RQDX3.
Two more RD54s from a VAXstation II/GPX with RQDX3.
The 11MB Rodime RO-202 is from a third-party (AED WINC) with it's own
controller.
And, to flesh out the list, I also have a VAXstation I with a RQDX1, but
no drive.
(BTW, it also have a VAXstation 3100-m38 with RZ(something) SCSI drive
which I successfully imaged on a PC with SCSI capabilities)
You must have happened to have used WD-formatted MFM
drives (since
the rig has a WD1002 in it). Your setup will work fine for imaging some
PC drives, but not others.
Yep, spot on. Another "Duh!" from me!
Surely,
they're just good-ol' MFM drives, right?
{snip}
Even among DEC controllers, there's not one low-level format. If you
wanted to migrate an RD51 from an RQDX1 to an RQDX3, you'd have
to low-level format it. You can exchange drives between a uVAX-2000
and a uVAX w/RQDX3... that format _is_ identical. Other than that,
you pretty much have to look up the controller specs and possibly
(probably?) reformat.
I have never heard of a single PC controller that "knew" DEC's low-level
format. What folks typically have to do is take a working machine and
save off the disk from a running OS. There are many ways to do this,
either imaging a disk over a serial or network link, backing the drive up
to tape or to a SCSI drive (and then dumping the backup from a
"modern" machine that can directly read the backup), or even just cloning
the MFM drive to a spare MFM drive and sticking the spare on the shelf.
It's easier to make a suggestion if it's known exactly what hardware
resources you have on hand.
Nice idea. I do have a couple of drives that might work...I'll have to
check their capacities.
All I can say from what you've posted is that you very well might have
what you need on hand, but a spare drive or two that you know is safe
to reformat might make things easier to juggle - you could practice
installing an OS (*BSD, VMS...) and save the forensic recovery of
anything interesting on your old drives until you are more familiar with
the systems.
Yep, I think Pat's idea to do a diskless/network boot of NetBSD and then
image off from there is the way to go.
If you don't have a tape drive or a SCSI
controller, consider
Kermit... it
may take a while to move many MB over Kermit, but you can set it up
and go do something else for hours/days. Also, there isn't *one* way to
do this, so if you would list for us the resources you have, we might be
able to make a suggestion that's more targeted to your situation.
Yes, no problem with time, I have plenty. If all else fails...
Thanks to all for very good guidance on this one. Sorry for my
stupidity...Duh!
I'll let everyone know how things go.
Jared