24 Apr
2002
24 Apr
'02
3:22 p.m.
Hey! I did say the mass storage interface had to be internal to the
"computer" and not necessarily the mass storage devices. Now, there can be
varying definitions as to what internal means. If it's a mainframe, then the
campus is the enclosure, while if it's a desktop, it's pretty obvious what
that is.
Besides, though I didn't originally point this out, some of you guys have, as
toys, some of those very machines that you're pointing out aren't really toys.
Are you guys trying to have it both ways?
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Smith" <csmith(a)amdocs.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 2:48 PM
Subject: RE: "Toy" computers (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)
-----Original
Message-----
From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com]
If he means "no internal mass storage
interface", he might
...but what is "internal?" If the storage interface is in
a separate rack, does that make the machine a toy?
After that, what is a "storage interface?" A common 'IDE' disk
will plug nearly directly into an ISA bus. Does that mean that
any system with an ISA bus could not be a "toy?" We could further
assume that most busses could be adapted in similar ways to drive
mass storage devices, and claim that no computer with any bus which
could do this can be a toy.
have something
of a point. Ignoring audio cassette, I can think of few
computers more
complicated than a traditional "single-board" computer that
lack an in-
cabinet mass storage interface. The PET, VIC-20 and C-64 all
Well, again, which cabinet?
interfaces. Non-
Zorro-equipped Amigas (A1000, A500, A500+) have floppy but
not hard disk
interfaces in-box, but the A600 and A1200 have 44-pin
internal IDE ports.
Does that make the A500 a toy, but not the A600?
What about the Mac plus which had a SCSI interface, but Apple
discouraged its use (preferring, rather, that you plug your
hard drive into the floppy interface, IIRC)...
I would propose that the label "toy"
might be suitable for
machines that
have external disk controllers _and_ an external network interface (if
any; I'll bend and accept a serial port as a network
interface if it runs
some network protocol - SLIP, PPP, LocalTalk, DDCMP...) I'm not sure
how to classify single-boards, though. By the nature of them being
Transputers might also be tricky.
Mind you, I love toy computers. They have been
fun and profitable for
me. Others, though, need that "bittybox" label to glorify whatever
they like at the expense of others. Let's at least agree on what
constitutes a "toy", even in the most general of terms.
I'd say anything that runs windows primarily. *duck*
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl
Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'