7 May
2010
7 May
'10
2:21 p.m.
On Fri, 7 May 2010, Dan Gahlinger wrote:
If you actually READ the email instead of making
immature remarks, maybe
you'd learn something.
I was far from the only one to notice multiple possible interpretations of
the meaning of your statement. See Rich Alderson's post, where he
advances points disputing both your and my posts.
I asked for a clarification; is that immature in your judgement?
What is the cause of your ad-hominem attacks? Are you insecure about
requests for clarification?
Or are you still mad about some people saying that email was NOT invented
in the 1980s?
I didn't say apple contracted with Valtrep for
their Lisa FORTRAN or
even implied anything like that. (that would be quite impossible). Don't
make stupid comments especially if you don't read the mssage.
Again, I was not the only one to notice that possible interpretation of
your remarks.
You say my 1980s experiences with Valtrep were long
after Fortran was
well established and into the decline?
Say it isn't so batman! what is this alternate universe we live in!?
The PEAK usage of FORTRAN was in the mid to late 1970s.
By the mid 1980s, FORTRAN was arguably in a decline of USAGE (I certainly
did NOT say that there was any decline in usability!), having
passed its peak usage, but was certainly the system of choice for many
important works. It was, however, by that time, being used less for
things for which it was not the most appropriate, since there were more
choices available, and many who had used FORTRAN when it was not the best
for the task had switched to APL, BASIC, C, Pascal, etc. as being more
specific for their paerticular needs. FORTRAN remained the tool of choice
for scientific programming, and its total USAGE had declined as business,
calculator, interactive, and systems programming added other tools.
oh, and your comment that Valtrep had some nice
improvements on the
original creation of Fortran is just plain stupid.
Valtrep is the PREDECESSOR to Fortran, or didn't you read my message so
you could understand that. Guess not.
Are you equally upset with EVERYBODY who mininterpreted your ambiguous
message? Such as Rich Alderson.
Fortran may have been in heavy use since the 1960s
(actually it's
probably more like the mid to late 70s, but whatever),
FORTRAN was in heavy usage in the late 1960s, even if you weren't involved
at that point. That was before it started having significant
amounts of competition from APL, BASIC, etc.
I didn't get involved with FORTRAN until 1965, so I missed the early days.
but Valtrep was actually developed and used long
before that.
Just because some company was still using Valtrep in the 1980s doesn't make it newer
you know.
Many companies use products and technologies that haven't been developed or wide use
in decades...
I have no idea who this "transnet" guy is, maybe you can ask him, maybe
he'll be nicer than I am.
http://www.keyongtech.com/4601529-anyone-for-help-with-dec/2
"I was using Valtrep in 1986 on a Sentry-70. Valtrep has been called the
predecessor to Fortran."
Strange. A fellow with the same first name as yours working at some of
the sme places, doing the same things, and you never met him?
Which one of you wrote "Castle"?
In any case, the predecessor to Fortran was Valtrep.
Not all such
technology has survived.
Why are so few people aware of Valtrep's role as
"the predecessor to
FORTRAN"
Someone months ago on this list talked about reviving
a Cyber/Prime, but
we never did hear about the result if it ever got finished...
Dan.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
[The following is left untrimmed, due to accusation of misquoting]
Date: Fri, 7
May 2010 13:10:00 -0700
From: cisin at xenosoft.com
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: RE: Lisa C and Lisa FORTRAN
On Fri, 7 May 2010, Dan Gahlinger wrote:
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Dating: Find someone special. Start now.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9729707 Actually, Fortran came from Valtrep
WOW!
Are you saying that Apple contracted with Valtrep for their Lisa FORTRAN?
Or are you saying that the earliest versions of FORTRAN were based on
Valtrep? If so, you should be aware that FORTRAN was in heavy active use
in the 1960s, rather long before your 1980s experiences with Valtrep.
NO. Valtrep may have made some nice improvements, but they were never
part of the original creation of FORTRAN.
I used to code on some old Sentry-70 systems in
Valtrep back in the 80s
yes, this was after fortran was already quite established.
Yes, RATHER.
FORTRAN was well on to its DECLINE in usage by then.
it's very like fortran - if you can write
fortran, you can do valtrep.
Interestingly perhaps, googling for valtrep is quite useless it seems...
Oh, I don't know, that guy "transnet" has some interesting ideas :-)