28 Oct
2001
28 Oct
'01
5:02 a.m.
hello,
I think itas a pretty cool idea. Probably the most 'organization' like
thing this really would need that it doesnt have just from this list, the
classiccmp list, comp.sys.dec, comp.os.vms, and a few other newsgroups, is
a non-profit to allow companies who might have reluctance giving away
old hardware to feel a little better about it. Now, forming a nonprofit
corporation actually costs money, as does maintaining it. DE incorporations
afaik run about $500, and then one would probably need an accountant every
year for tax time to make sure everything is in order, which could probably
cost about $100 a year. Thats more than i think any individual here is
willing to shoulder... I will be soon putting up on a faster network
www.vaxpower.org, which is for now still on a slow home network, and will put
up some vax-ish page at that point, with links (or mirrors) of most of the
other vax related pages i know of. I'd be glad to host a vax-dedicated
or just retro iron oriented page there as well. (for folks who have heard
me say for a while that im moving the main vaxpower machine to the faster
network, ive had some trouble along the way.. its actually a pmax box, but
originally i tried to get an ultrix install that had AFS 3.2 support to
work in the newer AFS environment that the machine will find itself. no
dice. NetBSD 1.4something was not as stable as i'd like it to be on the
machine (its a ds5000/260), and im going back to ultrix, forget afs for now,
and ill try hacking on arla when time permits. im making the boot disk
right now. sorry for the delay!)
To be more politically correct, i could host it on a vax, too..
Back to the point, i think as long as people keep their eyes open, coordinate
our own finds and vax treks with anyone else on the list who might be
rescuing an old machine (for example i'm giving a home to a lisp machine
next weekend) (it's much smaller than a vax 6000, gunther- once i find
my next house ill come looking for a 6k though! :) , and perhaps if we post
to a few groups that if they have old hardware that needs a home, to tell us
about it or go to www.vaxpower.org or something.. basically get a name and
a simple url to get around as the place to look when youre ready to toss some
old iron. Somebody (if enough people keep bugging me, i'd help, but i'm
likely to procrastinate on it) also should send letters, perhaps on
paper, to the various computer museums, resellers, etc, around the
country, just to let them know that when they have something they want
taken off their hands, that we're probably willing to take it.. also , for
the museums, etc, which often have public funding, we might even (if wehad
a nonprofit) solicit some funding ourselves for preservation. There is a ton
of money being wasted on this sort of thing, so with enough diligance and
some luck i think there could even be some support for such a venture.
happy hacking,
isildur
On Sun, 28 Oct 2001, Gunther Schadow wrote:
Hi,
I usually hate organizational issues, but I think us VAX collectors
need at least a semi-formal organizaton. Why?
- Most importantly this could help convince those that either
decomission or scrap VAX hardware to give it away instead.
(Yes, the last wave of decommissioned VAX 6000-600 and
7000/10000 is coming up, plus the tail of older models that
might occasionally still be in use.) Also think of all the
overpriced DEC hardware suppliers who soon have to get rid
of their stocks that no business customer needs anymore.
- Second this would give one point where we could organize trades
and consolidate shipment issues ("VAX trecks")
- It could help us negotiate good truck rental rates. Penske has
perhaps the best rate you can get, but not everyone gets the best
rate (i.e. 10 cents per mile) because that's for business customers
only, normally. But usually with an organization (and a little ad
on the web-site) you can get good deals on vehicle rentals.
And it goes on.
- We could promote semi-public collections like little private museums
that some of us are building.
- Finally it could help in right out fundraising for covering such
expenses as electricity and internet connectivity for cyber-
museums and public use VAXen.
We don't have to start all over but can take something that already
exists. (I'm also not looking to become a chairman of anything,
one of the typical incentives for people suggesting new organizations :-)
For example, I think this can start with a web site. Some of us already
have vax related domain names which we can use, like Isildur's
vaxpower.org. So, a www.vaxpower.org could be it. There's also the
VAX rescue squad, put in my several futile attempts to sign up
I realized that this project seems rather dead. I don't know if this
should be anything tightly connected with DECUS, because DECUS is
(a) too COMPAQ or whatever.com oriented, (b) too VMS oriented, and
(c) seems to have too much overhead (organizational structure,
membership fees, unrelated agenda items). But I could be wrong
about that.
Another question is if this should not be a DEC/VAX only group
but rather a vintage computer stuff group, like Sellam Ismail's
site. May be this could be it. What's important is that this site
would help accomplish above-mentioned goals, and that it would
be a showcase of our VAX collections and simply an address book
of the kind that the VAX rescue squad wanted to be. Something you
can point to when negotiating with a source. A network of friends
you can call up and ask for help in rescuing someting in an
otherwise remote area. Also a set of rules of conduct dealing with
shared hauls, (like what if: you agree to help with a haul from
a friend accross the country and agree on keeping certain things,
but suddenly a PDP-8 shows up in that lot? These are things that
could help maintain friendship and integrity and reduce grief.)
So, what do you think?
regards
-Gunther
--
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org