On Fri, 7 Nov 1997 18:23:51 -0800 (PST), Mr. Ismail remarked:
> Ok, first of all I'm pretty amazed at the 3rd grade level of
> mentality being demonstrated by the whiners complaining about my
> "foul" language.
You seem to hint that I was whining about the language, which is
simply not the case. The way one uses language states a lot about who
they are - and yes, sometimes this requires profanity. However, let's
save the "heavy language" for times when we really need it (like when
you drop a mini on your foot :-) ).
> Perhaps I should have been more specific and stated that from a
> mass-consumer marketing standpoint, the Nova is not significant.
In this case, the man has a valid point - from one perspective.
If one takes that perspective to an extreme, however, we find that
ENIAC wasn't relevant (only one ever built), none of the Zuse
machines amounted to anything, the ABC was meaningless, and the
IBM 360 was unimportant.
There's more to a machine that makes it historically important
than how many were sold or produced. Was the STRETCH important (a
half dozen or so)? How about the PDP-10 (under a thousand)? Mass
marketing is not the gauge of importance, especially in a social
context. Remember - the individuals who designed the machines that
_were_ mass marketed were brought up knowing about computers, and
those machines most certainly weren't mass-market devices.
> At any rate, why is there concern that the Nova will never be wanted
> until some newspaper runs an article on it? The argument is
> pointless.
Whether Novas are "wanted" is immaterial to the argument. Folks are
now virtually unaware of a piece of history, and an important one at
that. It's also a piece of history that's fast disappearing, which is
a rotten shame.
> So there's no market for it. Boo hoo.
Do multi-thousand dollar speculative prices on Altairs make them
more "historic" or "valuable" than a PDP-5 (predecessor of the -8)?
There's more to be calculated into a "value" than the current market
price, which all too frequently is out of line with reality.
> Nobody required Tim to take on 5000 lbs worth of stuff [...]
Nope. Nobody did. That's one of the reasons I have respect for
the man. He knows machines worth saving, and is willing to take the
time and (not incosiderable) effort to do so.
> If Tim was realistic he'd realize the practical implications involved
> in hauling a ton of equipment ANYWHERE on the continent, let alone
> across national borders.
He is realistic about it - I've chatted with him about it privately.
He realises fully what moving that amount of gear means. So do I and
another chap out East who are moving a good quarter-ton all the way
across a continent.
> If the majority of kids in America had a picture of a Nova tacked to
> their wall, the newspapers might have run a story on one.
Do you know who I'm speaking of? Hint: he designed one of the early
mass-market computers that you prize so highly.
> So Carl, why did you just mention the most popular of personal
> computers?
Put bluntly - shock value. I used that list as a calculated way of
getting folks' attention, and perhaps, just perhaps, of getting them
to "smell the coffee". To reiterate - it takes more to make a machine
important than how many copies were sold.
Cheers.
______________________________________________________________________
| | |
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA |
| mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | |
| http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 |
|________________________________________________|_____________________|
So, what do you people think I should do when I just can't keep a computer
much longer? I don't want to trash them, but things like XTs, 286s, etc? What
can I do but throw them away when I have no room?
Another question: does anyone have a logic board for a Mac Color Classic? I
know it's pretty new, but this is the only place I stand a chance of getting
one under $50. I found a Color Classic, and some moron smashed the display
and ripped out the logic board. I can use an external screen, but what about
the logic board?
A related matter: ROM for a Mac IIx?
<> The Nova will never be featured in the newspapers because it is not a
<> socially significant computer.
No more (or less) so than PDP-11s that it competed against.
<Ever read, say, _Soul of a New Machine_?
Good read, still have my copy!
Once upon a time there were many computer companies in Massachusetts
and during the life of the pdp-8, PDP-11 and the VAX there was Data General
trying to also carve a niche in the minicomputer market. This is
significant as most of action preceeds 1978. To put that in perspective
by '78 the altair was two years old and MITS starting to crumble, IMSI was
starting to peak, TRS-80 was new, AppleII was there as well, SS50 bus
machines were strong with SWTP and the new Smoke Signal Broadcasting
Company. The PC would be three years away.
<"socially significant computer" is, I'm not willing to let anything
<I consider to be significant go to the scrap metal dealers if I can
<avoid it.
Computers each and every have significance, some because of new concepts,
new markets or in a few cases the scams and swindles behind them! There
were many unremarkable computers made and many while noteable were really
junk!
Hey you forgot: SBCs <single board computers> are hardly ever noted here.
Most often they are simple minimum systems featuring the makers CPU or
chip sets. Some of note are the EVK68<ami-6800>, Motorola 6800D1, 6800D2,
National SC/MP<isp8a-500>, Cosmac ELF<1802>, INTEL SDK80<8080>, SDK85<8085>
and SDK88<8088>, IMSAI IMP48<8035>, Technico Super Starter<TI9900>, are
samples of what I mean<some I have>. Most of these were not expandable
to full systems and were really aimed at the hobbiest/engineer to show
off the chips or provide a working example to build off of. Others like
the IMP-48 were complete systems intended for control system use or for
one up embedded applications or quick prototypes.
If I could say one thing about all of the arguments...
Been there, done that! I even have a few of the t-shirts that are still
not rags yet. How many were at PCC'76 on the boardwalk?
Allison
If it's possible, could I take a IBM dot-matrix (or any other dot-matrix)?
By the way, I've tried all the computer retailers in my area, and they
don't have any classics. Any other places I should look?
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
----------
From: Zeus334(a)aol.com
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Old stuff
Date: Saturday, November 08, 1997 2:16 AM
In a certain supply room, there are in storage some computers of interest
to
me. There used to be some XTs and PCs, but they were given to a school. The
stuff that's still there:
A ton of printers, generally IBM dot-matrix
A ton of manuals and books, including manuals to Quattro-Pro, the manuals
to
some of the IBM printers, etc. Also, books on C and pascal
A few cartons of floppies, with the original disks to DOS 3.3, and a bunch
of
programs I have never heard of.
About 15 IBM network cards. I can't tell what they are, but they are brown
full- length eight bit things with round connectors on the back.
An IBM System/74, with three terminals.
I believe that the administration will part with all of these without much
difficulty. I could personally use the first 4 items. The System/74 is
about
the size of a closet, and I doubt I would find much use for it (If only I
had
room...)
I know nothing about it, and I would appreciate if you people would tell me
what the heck a System/74 is. It has a big floppy drive (14" or 8") built
in
to the front panel, mounted on its side.....
> So, what do you people think I should do when I just can't keep a computer
> much longer? I don't want to trash them, but things like XTs, 286s, etc? What
> can I do but throw them away when I have no room?
You can almost always find somebody who can use an extra computer.
Schools, non-profit organizations, somebody will want your old machines,
especially if you have a bit of software to go with them. If you don't
want 'em, give 'em away.
In fact, I seem to recall a group of Lisas (?) that some on the list were
interested in being donated to a school for developmentally disabled
children.
--
Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley(a)ac.grin.edu
Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH
It is good to rock. It is very good to rock wearing a big ass pumpkin on your
head. It is very, very good if that pumpkin is on fire. --Jessica Stern
On Sat, 8 Nov 1997 11:15:17 -0600 (CST), Mr. Seagraves was heard
to remark:
> We should build a computer from discrete components, just to operate
> one. And connect it to the Internet. Of course, we'd never finish
> in out lifetimes, and it would fill a room, but it would be awful
> cool!
I know, personally, of a chap in Germany who is, at this moment,
putting the finishing touches on a modern-day vacuum-tube computer.
I'm looking forward to seeing the designs and writing a simulator for
it so we may all have fun.
Computers aren't all _that_ hard to design and build! Just remember
that you don't _need_ all the instruction-set bloat that's so common
nowadays. Think RISC. Of course, before there was CISC/RISC there
was... well "RISC". The first time I heard of RISC the though that
popped into my mind was: "Finally! Back to basics!".
______________________________________________________________________
| | |
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA |
| mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | |
| http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 |
|________________________________________________|_____________________|
Speaking of reference manuals, does anyone have any information / insights
into a Visual Technologies Commuter? Manf in 1984, it uses two Intel chips
(8086 and 8088) with a plethora of RAM chips not to mention at least four
program subroutines. The manufacturer seems to have disowned this particular
unit since two people in their tech department have not heard of it.
Thanks in advance
Sam
Not yet a classic, but does anyone have a {spare} copy of the "Technical
Reference Personal Computer AT"? This is the tech ref guide for the original
IBM PC/AT, published by IBM (I'm guessing in a gray fabric binder).
TIA!
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<rcini(a)msn.com>
Charter ClubWin! Member
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
Hi All:
Here are some odds and ends available for offers and cost of shipping:
1. DG color monitor, model 6423, 15"
2. Sun 2/50 with 17" mono monitor
3. Sun 17" mono monitor
Please email me if you're interested. I'm in Vancouver, BC.
Kevin
---
Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD
mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca
