Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)northernway.net> wrote:
>You're both right, in a way.
>John H.: Chuck the disks, give up license. Yup.
>John F.: The upgrade disks require a license to previous software -- you
>now essentially have two linked licenses
>Is the license bound to *all* of the media?
To me, the problem is with the person who finds the software in the
dumpster and assumes that equals a license. It's not. The original
owner might've even been told by Autodesk to destroy their old media.
I can't see why the license owner shouldn't be free to do that, and
although I love to read the fine print, I do not recall ever seeing
language to that effect. To argue otherwise would only encourage
rampant pack-rat-ism. Of course, members of this mailing list don't
need an extra dose of that. :-)
"James L. Rice" <jrice(a)texoma.net> wrote:
>AutoDesk requires you to trade the original disks from the previous
>version at the dealer to order the upgrade.
I think they did once upon a time. Today they tend to use dongles
to protect software, so there's no way to use dumpster software as-is.
Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> wrote:
>Now, let's say, we've both upgraded, and I give him back his original
>disks. Am I now a pirate? Was I a pirate before? Or was he the pirate
>before?
It can depend on the company policy. Some companies are happy to take
money from anyone - legit owner or not - when it comes to upgrades.
Others are more careful about tracking serial numbers and might
not allow the upgrade.
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
To whom it concerns:
I'm forwarding this info on C64 stuff. I apologize upfront for quoting
this rather large faq. You may drown me in beer at our next meeting...
-Mike
Adam Bauer wrote:
>
> As for the argument that you can't have a decent kernel in 64K, here is
> Lunix, Linux for C64's..
>
> http://wwwcip.rus.uni-stuttgart.de/~etk10217/lunix/lunix.html
> (mirror) http://www.kuai.se/~mage/lunix/
>
> While it does serve as an inspiration, maybe we can steal^H^H^H^H^Hborrow
> some source?
>
> --- snip from README ---
>
> .d#M*#MHb\
> M? dH*" `Hb.
> TM. ,MH' `M|
> 9b. .MH' JM: LUnix-Version 0.1 patchlevel 3b
> ?M, HM' ?M' ===============================
> `*M#ML___.__,o#H'' Oct 5, 1996
> HH'"'"""*"''
> :M'
> HP ,/#
> |M' ,. `"`
> dH .H .. .o. .ov\o\ ., .o,
> ,,
> ___. JM' d| H' ``dP `\. |? `H,
> .d#'
> .dM#**HMq\. ,MT ,P JT -M| || & `H?
> ?M'
> JP' ``9H\?M' || .H' M| || 6 `9b. ,HH'
> MR `9M6 :? |M M| || M ?H, ?M'
> HM JM*H\ `booov="9? M| || 9. `MHH"
> `Hb. _dH' `*9b\. " |MT H. || ,HP>&o.
> `#H###H"' `*##\. `' ' .,H*' `Hb.
> `"#Hb\_ _?#*''
> "*&#o
> "*Hbbo\__ __oo##*""
> "'
> Index `"'***M=###booooobd##&*""""
> ============ ""'
>
> 1. What the hell is LUnix ?
>
> 2. How to start LUnix ?
>
> 3. Files/Applications comming with LUnix
>
> 3.1 The LUnix-Shell (sh0.exe, the default-shell)
> 3.2 The LUnix-Netdriver
> 3.3 The LUnix debugger LDB
>
> 4. Where can i get the lastest version of LUnix and/or updates, patches ?
>
> 5. Can i write my own LUnix-applications ?
>
> -------=============#####################################==============----
> ---
>
> 1. What the hell is LUnix ????
> ==============================
>
> LUnix is a new operating system for the Commodore64 (or C128 in C64-mode).
> I started writing LUnix in 1994. The system core is a minimal
> implementation of a multitasker. I followed an idea of A. Einstein,
> who said:
>
> "Make is as simple as possible, but not simpler"
>
> I'd say LUnix tends to be a little bit too simple :-)
>
> - LUnix is a operating system for the C64 (no hardware expansions
> required)
> (LUnix stands for "little UNIX", well don't expect too much :)
> LUnix doesn't support additional hardware yet, the next version will
> be able to support external RAM (assuming someone will write a
> modul/driver
> for it).
>
> - LUnix provides real multitasking, so there can be more than one process
> at a time. (Up to 32 processes. LUnix can't swap out stopped processes,
> so all of them must fit into main memory at once. The next version will
> support process-data in external RAM)
>
> - Using the termial-server "term9600" you can connect a terminal (via
> RS232)
> to your C64 and have a second user online on your C64.
>
> - Dynamic memory management. (only internal memory, bank0)
>
> - A small kernal but multipurpose. (well i hope so :-)
>
> What for, why ??
> ================
>
> A real C64-freak always wants to do the impossible, thats one of
> the main reasons, why i started writing LUnix. Many peaople think, that
> UNIX (multitasking/multiuser) can only run on big workstations with lots
> of megabytes RAM and gigabytes of discspace. I want to have (a kind of)
> UNIX on my little C64, having only 64kbyte and a normal
> 171kbyte-1541floppy.
> My dream would be, that people agree with me, that this isn't only fun
> but also makes sense.
>
> 2. How to start LUnix :
> =======================
>
> Get the archivefile "lunix01p3b.c64" into your C64 and run it. Its a self
> extracting archive. Start it like a normal basic-programm, it will then
> save all the lunix-files to device 8 of your C64 (e.g. your 1541-floppy).
> After all the files have been extracted, you can start LUnix by using
> the boot(-BASIC)-programm called "loader".
>
> load"lunix01p3b.c64",8
> ...
> run
>
> then
>
> load"loader",8
> ...
> run
>
> and follow the prompts.
>
> 3. Files comming with LUnix:
> ============================
>
> Systemfiles
> -----------
>
> loader o A BASIC programm that loads and starts LUnix.
>
> lunix.sys o The LUnix system core.
>
> bootdrv.drv o The bootdriver that the system will use to load the
> first
> command shell.
>
> init.exe o The screen manager (console)
>
> 3.1 Applications
> ----------------
>
> sh0.exe - sh0.exe
>
> Invokes another (sub-) command shell.
>
> a1541 - a1541
> Replaces the normal disc-driver by a
> IRQ-loader.
> You must enable this driver before accessing
> the
> RS232. (eg. before running "term9600").
>
> cat * cat <file>
>
> Prints a file to stdout.
>
> cd * cd <directory>
>
> Changes the working directory.
>
> count - count
>
> Counts up from <000> to <255> and put the
> numbers
> to stdout. Just makes some noise :)
>
> disk * disk
>
> Prints the disk-status information to stdout.
>
> echo * echo <text>
>
> Prints text to stdout.
>
> hexconv - ... ! hexconv
>
> Converts decimal numbers from stdin
> to
> hex-numbers (stdout). Usable as a
> filter.
> E.g. "ps ! hexconv"
> >> A "!" separates two (or more) commands so that
> the
> output of the first command will be used as
> input
> of the second command.
>
> kill - kill <pid>
>
> Kills a process. (PID=Process IDentification).
> You
> can get the PIDs by using the "ps"-command.
>
> ldb - ldb
>
> LUnix debugger. Details about its usage below.
>
> ls * ls [-l]
>
> Prints the disk-directory to stdout.
>
> man - man
>
> Prints a very little manual to stdout.
>
> mem - mem
>
> Prints a little statistic about the
> system-memory
> usage.
>
> memfree - memfree &
>
> Shows the amount of free memory in the
> right
> corner of the screen. You should start it
> this
> way: "memfree &"
>
> >> The "&" at the and of a line means that
> the
> command will run in the background and the
> shell
> won't wait till the execution is
> completed.
>
> mirror - ... ! mirror
>
> It will mirror lines from stdin and put
> them
> (mirrored) to the stdout. (should only be
> used
> in combination with "!").
>
> more * ... ! more
>
> Pass stdin to stdout, asks for a key
> after
> printing 11 lines.
>
> net.drv - net.drv <NID>
>
> Enables access to a local C64/128
> network.
> (NID=Network IDentification of the local
> computer).
>
> netstat - netstat
>
> Prints statistics about the C64/128 network.
>
> prim - prim <a>,<n>
>
> Prints n prime numbers beginning with a.
>
> ps - ps [-la]
> Prints a report about (-a -> "all") processes
> in
> the system. The option "-l" will make 'ps' do
> this
> in a more detailed way.
>
> reboot * reboot
>
> Causes a RESET of the computer.
>
> renice * renice [<PID>[,<pri>]]
>
> Prints/changes the priority of a process.
>
> rm * rm <file>
>
> Removes (deletes) a file.
>
> rsh - rsh <NID>
> Calls for a shell on an other computer (NID)
> in
> the C64/128-net.
>
> rshserv - rshserv [-v] &
>
> Shellserver, serves shells to other computers
> in
> the C64/128-net. (Up to 4 at a time)
>
> tee * tee <file>
>
> Writes stdin to a file.
>
> term9600 - term9600 [-v] &
>
> Terminalserver, serves shells to a
> terminal
> connected to the RS232. (uses a special
> userport-
> RS232-interface 9600Baud 8N1). Never forget
> to
> start "a1541" before starting the
> terminal-
> server !!!
>
> top - top
>
> Examines the system and print a sorted list
> of
> processes and their use of CPU time. SPACE
> will
> restart the examination, any other key ends
> top.
>
> wc - ... ! wc
>
> Counts chars, words and line from stdin and
> prints
> a report to stdout.
>
> write - write [-q] <PID>
>
> Writes a massage to an other shell (PID of
> that
> shell has to be specified). CTRL+D ends
> write.
>
> Remarks
> -------
>
> o = file can't be used as a LUnix command.
> - = commands written by the author himself.
> * = commands written by Paul Gardner from australia.
>
> As you might have noticed, there are no (very) usefull applications.
> (exept ldb) Thats because i don't have that much fun writing applications
> than writing kernel-code :-)
> Usefull may be writing the directory into a file "ls ! tee filename" or
> calculating some primenumbers and write them into a file
> "prim 100,10 ! tee primenumers". Maybe you find it usefull to
> translate all decimals in a textfile into hexadecimals, this would be
> no problem "cat infile ! hexconv ! tee outfile".
>
> I plan to write a TCP/IP-stack for the next version of LUnix, that
> would be something quite usefull i think.
>
> 3.2 The command shell (sh0.exe)
> ===============================
>
> <command>
> will load and execute a command, wait till its done.
>
> <command> ! <command> { ! <command> }
> load all and execute them parallel, passing stdout of the first to stdin
> of the second command and so on, wait till the last command is done.
>
> ... &
> A "&" at the end of a command line lets the shell go on without waiting
> till the command line is done.
>
> exit or CTRL+d
> Ends a shell.
> ( CTRL+d is the EOF0"end of file" charakter, it also ends wc, write,
> hexconv,..)
>
> 3.3 The LUnix-net-driver :
> ==========================
>
> The net-driver lets you connect up to 6 C64/128 all running
> LUnix.
> It sends and receives datapackets. There can be several virtual
> connections
> between all stations of the net at the same time.
> The only service that is implemented yet, is a shell-serving process,
> it
> allows remote shells (up to 4 per computer).
> (The net-sytem supports up to 7 services).
>
> What do i need to run this net-driver ?
> ---------------------------------------
>
> - You should have at least one C64/128
> (but you'll have much more fun, if there are more of them)
>
> - You need at least LUnix_v0.1p2 .
> and the following files : "net.drv","rshserv","rsh","netstat"
> you can get all of them (and even more) for free through
> the Internet (a list of addresses is appended to this file)
>
> - And you need a suitable cable ! (if you use more than 1 C64 :)
> You have to connect (at least) GND, PB0, PB1, PB2, PB3, PB6
> (all from the C64's userport) of all C64 in the net, the software
> supports up to 6 C64 (or C128) in the net.
>
> *** if you have only one discdrive you'll need a switch to connect/
> disconnect one of the pins to ground (eg. PB0).
> Use a little resistor (about 470-1000 Ohms) to connect the
> certain pin to ground.
> If the connection is switched 'ON' all the communication
> in the net is disabled.
>
> How to start it :
> -----------------
>
> - First unplug all the computers and discdrives/monitors...
>
> - Then connect the userport-pins (you should try to connect each GND-pin
> first)
>
> *** only one discdrive: connect GND to the discdrive (!),to
> prevent damage when connecting/disconnecting it to one computer
> after the other later.
>
> - Now shitch them all on.
>
> - Load and start LUnix,
> press 'add a session' ,type "net.drv X" X is the ID of the station.
> This ID ranges from 1 to 6 (don't use the same ID twice !)
> Then enable logins from other computers to this computer by starting
> the remote-shell-server process by typing 'rshserv -v &'
> (-v is not neccessary).
> <-do this with every computer you have connected .
>
> Thats it ! The net is now active.
>
> How to use the net
> ------------------
>
> You can use the net to execute shells on other (or the local) computer.
>
> Just type "rsh X" (X- is the ID of the destination computer)
> and you should get a 'remote shell' from that computer to work with :)
> The actual 'rshserv' process enables up to 4 remote-logins at a time
> (it doesn't matter from what computer you are calling)
>
> Type 'exit' to logout again.
>
> *** only one discdrive:
> You can use one of the computer to work as server (this will be
> the only computer with a discdrive later)
> You just have to start "rsh"s on the other computer in direction
> to the server.
> But how to do that, if there is only on discdrive available ?
> Thats what the mentioned shitch is for !
>
> Switch 'ON' (and block all net actions), then connect the
> discdrive to
> one of the other computers and type "rsh Y" (Y is the servers ID)
> connect the drive to the next computer...and so on...then connect
> the
> discdrive to the 'server' and switch 'OFF' !......
>
> 3.4 ldb - LUnix debugger version 1.0
> ====================================
>
> Available (commandline-) commands:
>
> b
> break
> Send character (ascii code 3) to debugged process.
>
> c
> continue
> Continue process (CTRL+s stopps it)
>
> d [[ mid: ] address ]
> disassemble
> Disassemble process-code (or any other memory address).
> With no argument d continues disassembling at the last position.
> Default for mid is the process' mid.
> Address is the relative address in the mid-memory area or, if no
> mid is given the address is relative/absolute/original to the
> process' startaddress (as defined by the used with the 'm'-command).
>
> f dev:filename
> file
> Load exacutable file for debugging.
>
> h [[ mid: ] address ]
> hexdump
> Print a hexdump, syntax like 'd'
>
> i
> info
> Print process information
>
> m[aro]
> mode
> ma absolute memory addresses
> mr relative memory addresses
> mo original memory addresses
> (display mode of disassembler)
>
> r [ args ]
> run
> Run a loaded process with 'args' as commandline parameters.
>
> s #signum
> signal
> Sends signal #signum to debugged process.
>
> t
> tick
> Lets the debugged process run for exactly one time slice.
> (or till there is a 'jsr$$9012' in the code, wich can be used
> like breakpoints for debugging)
> NOTE: ldb waits till the process is interrupted while running
> (if the process is blocked ldb will wait till it is
> unblocked again)
>
> examples:
> ---------
>
> @> ldb
> LUnix Debug Version 1.0
> by Poldi 4.3.1996
> ldb> f @:prim { load 'prim' }
> ldb> r 10000,10 { prim 10000,10 }
> ldb> i {info}
> pc=38:0046 sr=00 a=00 x=00 y=00
> { mid:reladr ,status register,akku,x-register,y-register }
> stack 17 90
> { $9018=suicide is the return-address, if there is a rts }
> zp 57 8d 38 35 30 3a 8e 00 59 2f 8d
> { zero page starting with address $57: ...10 bytes }
> ldb> d 38:46
> { begin disassembling at pc=38:0046 taken from info }
> $c846 lda#$c8
> $c848 jsr$$9051
> $c84b jmp$$c991
> $c84e rts
> $c84f lda#$00
> $c851 sta$$59
> $c853 sta$$5a
> $c855 sta$$5b
> $c857 sta$$5c
> $c859 ldii$57
> ldb> mr { switch to relative-address-mode }
> ldb> h 0 { hexdump starting at relative addr. 0 }
> $0000 38 f5 fa fa 00 00 00 00 8UZZ....
> $0008 00 46 00 00 00 00 00 00 .f......
> $0010 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> $0018 00 00 4c 1b 90 00 00 00 ..l.....
> $0020 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> $0028 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> $0030 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> $0038 50 52 49 4d 00 00 00 00 prim.... { 'prim' CMD name in the file }
> $0040 17 27 00 00 80 00 a9 c8 .'....)h
> $0048 20 51 90 4c 91 39 60 a9 q.l.9@)
> ldb> f @:ldb { load 'ldb' }
> ldb> mo { switch to original address-mode }
> ldb> d { disassemble code }
> $7000 38 00 00 00 40 57 06 00 8...@w..
> $7008 1c 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 .@......
> $7010 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> $7018 00 00 4c 48 70 4c 52 70 ..lhPlrP
> $7020 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> $7028 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> $7030 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> $7038 4c 44 42 00 00 00 00 00 ldb.....
> $7040 lda#$70
> $7042 jsr$$9051
> ldb> d { continue disassembling }
> $7045 jmp$$79aa
> $7048 se i
> $7049 lda#$03
> $704b ldx$$7001
> $704e jsr$$902d
> $7051 rti
> $7052 jmp$$901b
> $7055 pjp$$70a2
> $7058 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 01234567
> $7060 38 39 41 42 43 44 45 46 89abcdef
> ldb> d { continue disassembling }
> $7068 01 04 07 0a 0d 10 13 16 ........
> $7070 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> $7078 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> $7080 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> $7088 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> $7090 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> $7098 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> $70a0 00 00 ..
> $70a2 and#$3f
> $70a4 = $$70d2
> ldb> d { continue disassembling }
> $70a6 cmp#$20
> $70a8 bcs$$70ac
> $70aa ora#$40
> $70ac jsr$$9069
> $70af bcc$$70d2
> $70b1 jsr$$70b7
> $70b4 jmp$$901b
> $70b7 bit$$7071
> $70ba bpl$$70d2
> $70bc lda$$7075
> ----------------------------------------
> ldb> f @:prim { load file 'prim' }
> ldb> r 10000,10 { exec 'prim 10000,10' }
> ldb> i { info }
> pc=2d:0046 sr=00 a=00 x=00 y=00
> stack 17 90
> zp 57 38 a9 20 20 ac 38 a6 57 e8 86
> ldb> t { let prim run for one tick }
> ldb> i { print info agin }
> pc=2d:0170 sr=23 a=00 x=00 y=04
> stack 3d 2f 17 90
> zp 57 0a 00 d0 01 00 00 01 01 00 00
> ldb> t
> ldb> i
> pc=2d:0154 sr=23 a=00 x=00 y=07
> stack 3d 2f 17 90
> zp 57 0a 00 80 03 00 00 13 04 00 00
> ldb> t
> ldb> i
> pc=2d:0158 sr=23 a=00 x=00 y=02
> stack 3d 2f 17 90
> zp 57 0a 00 e4 00 00 00 af 01 00 00
> ldb> t
> ldb> i
> pc=2d:014b sr=22 a=ff x=00 y=0e
> stack 3d 2f 17 90
> zp 57 0a 00 00 40 1c 00 17 27 00 00
> ldb> t
> 10007 { a prime number calculated by prim after 5 ticks }
> ldb> i
> pc=2d:017b sr=21 a=00 x=09 y=04
> stack 3d 2f 17 90
> zp 57 09 00 60 02 00 00 79 01 00 00
> ldb> s
> s #signum (1..16)
> sends signal to process
> ldb> s 7 { send signal 7 'killed parent' }
> process doesn't support this signal
> ldb> s 6 { send signal 6 'user break' }
> ldb> t { another tick.. }
> Process died { process caught the signal and ended }
> ldb> i
> No file loaded
> ldb> x { exit from ldb .. back to shell }
> @>
>
> disassembler notes:
> -------------------
> The assemblersytax may look strange to you, because it is based on
> an old assembler i wrote (it was easier to use it's disass-tables as
> writing some new, wich i may do somewhen in future).
>
> lda#$12
> ---
> parameter #12 is decimal, $12 hex, "a ascii, <label a label
> the parameter may be preceeded by a l (low byte) or h (high
> byte) eg. lda#l$1234 is the same as lda#$34 and
> lda#h$1234 like lda#$12.
> ---
> the first 3 chars define the command (like lda,sta,inc,and,...)
> -
> the fourth char defines the addess-mode
> # immediate
> $ adr
> x adr,x
> y adr,y
> ii (adr),y (third and fourth char 'i')
> ix (adr,x)
>
> some examples:
> lda#$23 is lda #$23
> lda$$23 is lda $23
> lda$$1234 is lda $1234
> ldii$a2 is lda ($a2),y
> ldax$c000 is lda $c000,x
> adcx$c080 is adc $c080,x
> + ii$bf is adc ($bf),y
> = $$1234 is beq $1234
> <> $$1234 is bne $1234
> pjp$$1234 is byte $0c; word $1234
> jsr$$9012 is jsr $9012
>
> 4. Where can i get the lastest version of LUnix and/or updates, patches ?
> =========================================================================
>
> WWW:
>
> LUnix-homepage
> http://wwwcip.rus.uni-stuttgart.de/~etk10217/c64.html
> or
> http://wwwcip.rus.uni-stuttgart.de/~etk10217/lunix.html
>
> There also is additional information about the kernel-structure.
>
> FTP:
>
> ftp://ftp.uni-hildesheim.de/pub/...
> ftp://ftp.giga.or.at/pub/c64/...
>
> If you need support, or have some questions/remarks/suggestions write
> an email to me.
>
> eMail: Daniel.Dallmann(a)studbox.uni-stuttgart.de
>
> 5. Can i write my own applications ?
> ====================================
>
> Of course you can ! But you have to take care of some simple rules.
> A LUnix-application must have a special header, must be relocatable by
> the system and mustn't access memory/hardware that may be used by other
> applications or by the system.
> (Applications may access hardware-directly because the kernel doesn't
> provide the neccesary routines yet)
> Details on how to write applications can be found on my WWW-page.
>
> If you want to use an other machine (linux/UNIX/amiga) for development,
> you can use some tools i've written to help writing LUnix-applications.
>
> there is
> luna: a 6502/10 cross-assembler
> lupo: a preprocessor for assembler sources
> lld: a linker for objectfiles created by luna
>
> All you need is a C-compiler (i used the GNU-C-Compiler "gcc") to built
> the executables. (Thanks to Stefan Haubenthal there is a compiled
> version for AMIGA).
>
> Everyone, who wants to do something for LUnix is welcomned and will get
> all information needed (just contact me).
>
> If you already played around with LUnix and wrote some little applications
> *please* send them to me, i'll include them into the patchlevel 3c
> release.
>
> In fact LUnix0.1 is quite limited, thats why i'm working on a new version.
> But it won't be released before 1997 (i'm not that far). If someone
> likes to have more information on the next release, or better has some
> suggestions, look at my WWW-page or write an (e)Mail.
>
> ...and, don't forget:
> HAVE FUN !!
>
> --- snip from README ---
The mail software crashed while I was typing this. Oh well, try
again...
> I doubt I will be using the thing because it needs a 220-volt plug,
> which there are at my school, but noone would let me put it in their
> room. There isn't any space in my apartment either :). Could I
> somehow wire to 110-volt plugs to get 220? If there is some kind of
You can try it if you like, but you'd far better notter!
Seriously, in most (afaik) homes/schools/offices in the US, it is
possible to find 230V between the live terminals of two suitably chosen
sockets. But this is not recommended. In particular, you cannot
connect the output voltages of two randomly chosen sockets in series
and expect the wiring to survive...
I'd recommend a 110/220V transformer. They do exist and they are not
very difficult to find. It may also be possible to modify the PSU.
Don't give up that soon!
> "getting started" thing, photocopies would be fun, just to look at...
I may have spare copies of some pocket reference guides. There is one
for the OS (about 1/2 inch thick) and one for the assembler at least. I
shall have a look - eventually!
Philip.
Sorry to take so long replying - I have been away for a week doing various
things (Job interview, visit parents, fail to mend car, etc.). One of the
advantages of being away is that a couple of dozen messages after a
question I think I could answer, somebody else answers it for me! Far
less typing to do!
> Certainly more _fun_ than some of the films that have been released for
> sure! The wife will not agree though. But if one of us had a large old
> S/360 or S/370 in our basements, the power consumption would financially
> kill us (because of the water chillers for cooling, current consumption
> of older technology electronics, etc.) I'd love to even _see_ a large
> S/360 and all its utilities.
Possibly. But I'm not convinced. I seem to remember the biggest IBM
3090 system drew about 250kW (I'll have to look that up too!). I
imagine a typical system might draw perhaps 50kW. The biggest problem
with this is the supply to your house - few can manage more than 25kW.
At 8c per kWh, 50kW is $4 per hour - cheap enough to run for an evening
a month, say.
> Only one 8 Meg board installed. Maximum, IIRC, was 16 Mb storage. DASD was
> probably used as workstation storage. Philip, can you confirm any of this
> from your sales literature? If you're interested, William, I can give you
> the lineup of PC board modules in the CPU which I briefly talked about
> earlier in the thread.
9373 (9370 model 20) was 4 MB expandable to 16 MB; all the others were
8MB, expandable to 16 MB. However, only the 9377 (model 90) had a
64-bit data path; all the others were 32 bit, so I suspect the 4 meg
card would work in the 9375. But there's no knowing, with IBM.
I see on this page there is a comparison "not fully verified by IBM" by
an outside agency, comparing 370 machines with Vaxen. A 9373 is slower
than a microvax II; a 9377, rather faster than a Vax 8650, reaching
nearly 0.8 Mflop. The 4381 - another low(ish) end 370 - had three
models listed, up to around 1.2 Mflop for the model 13. (At least IBM
didn't try and claim twice this for the model 14, which is two 13s
back-to-back).
Philip
All,
This discussion got me thinking (uh oh... Danger, Will
Robinson!)...is there any point to having a screen saver on a machine with
an LCD display? That is, is there any advantage to having the LCD pixels
all black (or black with a distraction running around the screen) as
opposed to steady, showing the last thing you did?
- Mark
>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:04:14 -0800
>Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
>From: "Daniel A. Seagraves" <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com>
>To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
>Subject: Re: System/34 contd.
>
>[loss of manuals....]
>
>That's OK, I have most of the manuals. Anything specific?
>I can't let them go, they're only copies, but I can post anything
specific you may be needing...
I doubt I will be using the thing because it needs a 220-volt plug,
which there are at my school, but noone would let me put it in their
room. There isn't any space in my apartment either :). Could I somehow
wire to 110-volt plugs to get 220? If there is some kind of "getting
started" thing, photocopies would be fun, just to look at...
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
On Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:26:06 -0500, "kroma" <kroma(a)worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>Do you turn the HD on first and let it warm up for about 30 seconds,
before
>>you turn on the GS?
Turned-on, yes. Warmed-up for 30s, no. The drive did finish it's
power-on sequence and came to a rest, though, which happens in less than
30s.
Does the GS/OS use a special boot block like the MS-DOS boot sector, or
does it just look for the ProDOS file?
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
OK, more freebies! What can I say? I really need the space. ;-)
Once again, LOCAL PICKUP ONLY, KENT, WA (Near Seattle). There's no way I
have the resources to ship this stuff.
1). At least 20 RL02 disk packs, one of which is the DEC Diagnostics kit
for VAX11/730 and 750. There's also an RL02-based distribution kit for the
VMS 5.4 upgrade, still in sealed boxes, with the license PAK and release
notes. I also saw some RT11 ver. 5.1 packs.
2). A pair of RL02 disk drives, installed in a mini-rack. I'm keeping the
Micro PDP-11/73 that was in the same rack, but I'll throw in the QBus RL
controller.
There may be some documentation I'll pass on as well -- I'll decide that
when whoever comes by to get the stuff does so.
Drop me an E-mail if you're interested and we'll set up a date. Thanks in
advance!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2(a)wizards.net)
http://www.wizards.net/technoid
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
Hi. I'm getting really interested in setting up a fairly good web server, and I want to learn all (most) about Linux, Apache, and CGI/Java scripting. What's needed, etc.
If anyone could recommend some books, and, if they've got the ISBN's so I can find 'em....
Thanks again,
Tim D. Hotze
Spotted this message today - I imagine that they don't appear too often.
:)
>We have a huge Convex C3200 computer (it would have been termed
>a supercomputer when it was new). It's basically worthless to us.
>
>Best offer thanks, and you pay for the transport. It weighs lots.
>
>It has 4 IPI disk drives, a DLT tape unit (x4) a versatec VME plotter
>plus, the all time favorite, one of those reel to reel tape units.
>(Storage tec 90, 2920 model).
What is it? Is it the sort of thing that desperatly needs saving? I
probably can't pick it up myself, as it is in the wrong state and I
suspect a car with a trailer may still have trouble bringing it back, but
I hope there is someone here from Melbourne or Sydney who can handle it.
:)
Adam.
