- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by g-wright＠att.net

>----- Original Message ----- >From: "R. D. Davis" <rdd(a)rddavis.org> >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" ><cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> >Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 2:49 PM >Subject: Re: vintage computers and lead poisoning? > > ----- Snip > >> Relax, don't panic. Realize that they'll get more lead exposure from >> soldering or from pencils and don't waste your time worrying about it. >> > >Pencils? JOE> Pencils used lead in the time of the Romans. Some people haven't caught JOE> onto the fact that pencils now use graphite and have for the last 200 years JOE> or more. JOE> Joe Boy that puts a different spin having "no Lead in you pencil". - Jerry

21 years, 10 months

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vintage computers and lead poisoning?

by vp＠cs.drexel.edu

Philip Pemberton <philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com> wrote: > Sure, but C64s, VAXen and such never had any viruses written specifically for > them, IIRC. [...] VAXen? How about the Morris worm that flooded the Internet back in 86? It had a specific buffer overflow (for fingerd) that injected vax machine code onto the stack. **vp

21 years, 10 months

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Three lead neon lamps

by jrice54＠vzavenue.net

I'm looking for a source for several three lead neon lamps. I purchased a Sgi Galileo video analog breakout box and two neon lamps on the PC board are broken. There are no makings on the lamps. I assume they are some kind of protective device. I've been browsing several lamps sites and have only seen two lead lamps. James

21 years, 10 months

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Another computer toxic issue

by vax3900＠yahoo.com

"Computers have traces of deadly toxic dust" http://theinquirer.net/?article=16393 It is time for you to liquidate your collections. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/

21 years, 10 months

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Atari Mandala VR System

by wayne.smith＠charter.net

I'm looking to buy (or at least get a chance to look at) an original Mandala virtual reality system for the Atari - the one that was sold by Vivid beginning in around late 1989 or so. Basically works like the Playstation Eye Toy. Anybody have one or know who does? -W

21 years, 10 months

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new hamfest finds

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

I went to a little hamfest today. Brought back another SWTPC Function Generator and two OLD or homemade (or both?) vacuum tubes. These things are weird! Other finds include the main unit for a Pace MBT desoldering station (no handpiece or tips :-(. Also a HP 12C calculator and NOS military lead acid battery from 1953. It's about 2" square and about 5" tall and is made of clear plastic so everything is readily visible. It's never had acid put into it and has never been used. It's sort of cute and it makes an interesting show and tell piece. Pictures later. Joe

21 years, 10 months

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new hamfest finds

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 5, 21:28, William Donzelli wrote: > Most of these batteries were made in World War 2, many by a company called > Willard. They pretty much fell out of fashion roight after the war in new > designs, but probably were still produced for all of the existing radios > (mainly) that used them. Actually, small transparent lead-acid batteries (usually with the three balls in a column) were still made up to the 1980s. Professional flashguns and some "portable" phones used them. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 10 months

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More on printing terminals

by fm.arnold＠gmx.net

cctech-request(a)classiccmp.org schrieb am 06.06.2004: >Message: 15 >Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 11:05:16 -0400 >From: akb+lists.cctech(a)imap1.mirror.to (Andrew K. Bressen) >Subject: more on printing terminals >To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org >Message-ID: <0qpt8cwwur.fsf(a)lanconius.mirror.to> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > >I've been getting interested in printing terminals. >(I am seeking professional help for this, but meanwhile...). > >Is there a device which is a good modern (correcting) typewriter, >true letter-quality (daisy, thimble, golfball) printer, and also >a terminal? > >Plenty of typewriters were made with serial or parallel ports, >but I don't know of anything with both correction tape and a control key... > >Correcting Selectric II's came out around 1973, and the LA36 Decwriter >II in 1974, with the Selectric III and LA100 still being available at >least into the mid-eighties... was there really no perceived market >for a product that combined the strengths of both? > We had at the office (in Germany) Olympia daisy-wheel typewritere with correction tape, that could optionalley be fitted with a RS232 interface. We used it at one of the machines, but only for output. Those typewriters may still be available today. >akb, still waiting for the reinvention of the versioning file system and >the standardized stacking error facility > Why re-invent? I have RSX11! Frank

21 years, 10 months

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Hero remote for pver $500

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

How can a remote control be worth over $500? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19198&item=5900569057

21 years, 10 months

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Need Heathkit Cable

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Anyone have a extra serial I/O cable for the H9 video terminal that connects to the H8? Thanks

21 years, 10 months

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Three lead neon lamps

by melamy＠earthlink.net

Hi James, look here http://www.electronicsurplus.com/commerce/catalog/spcategory.jsp?category_i… they would not be considered lamps. Look further under "gas surge suppressor" best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- From: James Rice <jrice54(a)vzavenue.net> Sent: Jun 5, 2004 3:28 PM To: "cctalk@classiccmp" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: Three lead neon lamps I'm looking for a source for several three lead neon lamps. I purchased a Sgi Galileo video analog breakout box and two neon lamps on the PC board are broken. There are no makings on the lamps. I assume they are some kind of protective device. I've been browsing several lamps sites and have only seen two lead lamps. James

21 years, 10 months

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Free stuff, mostly Apple II related

by rds1226＠sh163.net

SGksDQoNCiAgIEkgY2FtZSBhY3Jvc3MgeW91ciBtZXNzYWdlIGF0IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuY2xhc3Np Y2NtcC5vcmcvcGlwZXJtYWlsL2NjdGVjaC8yMDAzLURlY2VtYmVyLzAyMzY4NC5odG1sLiBJIGFt IG5vdCBzdXJlIHdoZXRoZXIgdGhlc2UgZnJlZSBzdHVmZiBhcmUgc3RpbGwgYXZhaWxhYmxlLiBJ ZiB0aGV5IGFyZSwgY2FuIEkgaGF2ZSB0aGUgIjUuIE0wNDg3IC0gQXBwbGUgS2V5Ym9hcmQgSUkg KEFEQikiID8NCg0KVGhhbmtzIQ0KDQpEb25nc2hlbmc=

21 years, 10 months

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Pressed Particle Board Shelving Warning

by Lee.Davison＠merlincommunications.com

> Procrastinators Anonymous web site: > http://www.rddavis.org/rdd/procrastinators.html I'll look later. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________

21 years, 10 months

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Unibus DEC board FS

by anheier＠owt.com

I need to raise some cash for bike parts. I have the following unibus boards for sale. They are in reasonable shape, but I have no way of testing them. I would like $15 each. Paypal works well for me. Offers for complete set will be considered. List: M7859- KY11-LB 11/34 console interface card M7258- LP11/LS11 interface M9313- unibus exerciser & terminator M7800- Async transmitter- RSVR, KL11 M7454- TU80 unibus interface 2 each M8256- RX211 unibus RX02 interface misc Translation Technology Inc card Thanks Norm

21 years, 10 months

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need schematics for SWTPC function generator

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

Does anyone know where I can find a schematic of other docs for the SWTPC function generator? Mine has problems. Joe

21 years, 10 months

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Paging Mike Stein in Toronto

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

Still trying to reach Mike Stein in Toronto. (regarding Cromemco information). Please drop me a line at the address in my sig. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 10 months

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Xerox workstation for sale

by yoda＠isr.ist.utl.pt

Hello everyone. Several years ago I got a Xerox workstation from a junkyard. I believe the model is a Daybreak. At that time I got it partially booting, using some homebrew interfacing hardware. At the meantime I got married, and I have to get rid of the thing (lack of space and wife's interest ;). However, I don't want it teared apart for recycling. I want it preserved. Therefore, I'm puting it to sale! I live in Lisbon, Portugal (EU). I have some photos online at the following URL: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/library/gallery/Xeroxworkstation I also have three peripherals: two tape streamers and one 5 1/4 floppy drive. Since it has no keyboard, mouse or monitor, I built interfaces to connect it to a VGA monitor, and to a PC. I can include the stuff I did with the machine. Cheers, Rodrigo Ventura -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585

21 years, 10 months

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Half bad 2716s was:Re: 8" hard sectored floppies

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 4, 15:23, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > No, I was talking about Intel's 2508( maybe 2758 from your later > note ), not the 2708 that was a multi-voltage part. I know; Joe asked about the 2704 and 2708, my note about the 2716 was just a comment. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 10 months

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486 dies terrible death

by vcf＠siconic.com

My voicemail PC died a pretty terrible death this morning. I was still groggy from a late night of hackering and sitting at my computer (my back is to the voicemail system) and all of a sudden this loud popping begins. At first a wave of terror washed over me as my not quite totally functioning brain was trying to determine just what the hell was going on. At first I didn't want to look but I turned around in time to see some serious arcing going on inside the exposed PC (the case is off). It went on for a good 4-5 seconds (start to finish). It was probably the power supply but I can't tell for sure until I do a post-mortem (right now I'm getting my voicemail back up). Luckily it didn't take out any hardware. The hard drive is fine and as far as I can tell so far so are the voice boards. That was some crazy shit. The power supply fan went bad on it a while ago (over a year, surely longer) and I never bothered replacing it because I always use just whatever hardware I have laying about whenever something goes bad on the box, and those damn power supply fans go out all the time and it's a pain to have to replace them. Anyway, I wonder if it was some critical thermal failure of some sort. The P/S was hot but not abnormally so (abnormal in this case would be scorching but usual temperature is very hot to the touch but not burning). Wacky. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

21 years, 10 months

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122A scope

by philk1a＠sdccu.net

Noticed an old message concerning you finding a HP 122A Scope with manual. Any chance you still have manual ( I have the scope) if so any chance you would sell a copy of manual ? Thanks Phil

21 years, 10 months

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Anyone have a spare PC8300 Arrow triangle key?

by ron.hudson＠sbcglobal.net

I just recovered my PC8300 from my brothers and it is missing one all four are the same, you just orient them differently Before anyone cries "elder laptop abuse" my 83000 was missing the key when I got it. Thanks!

21 years, 10 months

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Proposal: Oldware database

by mtapley＠swri.edu

All, I was thinking today about old software (okay, I was playing Master of Orion 1 :-) ) and realized that there may be a service opportunity we have. I don't know if such exists already, please point me there if it does. What I'm thinking of is a central site to point out old software or software for old systems that have been placed in public domain or otherwise made available for nominal charges by their original manufacturers. I'd like to see something like a database containing: Name of package Brief description (maybe two paragraphs) Rating (something like a one-to-five-mice rating, or maybe with valves?) Platform/OS it runs on (database should be sorted on this field) Where to get it Company that made it. Current owner of that company, (includes web-link) Current main product line of that company Person/group responsible for making it available Current business of that person (includes web-link) A couple of examples I know a little about: Lighthouse Design Ltd Office Suite Office Suite, consists of mail, spreadsheet, text, presentation packages vvvv (four tubes out of 5) NeXTStep 3.x http://www.peanuts.org/peanuts/NEXTSTEP/commercial Lighthouse Design Sun workstations/servers ??? ??? OPENVMS 7.3 Operating system, utilities, development tools vvvv VAX, Alpha hardware http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/mount.html DEC HP printers :-) ???? ???? But even here, I don't really know the right people to credit. This seems like a good way to return a bit of good karma to the folks that support old hardware and software, as well as a valuable resource for those of us trying to do vintage computing on a budget. I guess I have not thought far enough into how to limit the database from becoming enormous. I'd say some necessary criteria are; 1) package runs on a "classic" (that is > 10 years old) platform 2) package was at one time sold in the normal software marketplace (i.e. not shareware/freeware/etc since inception) 3) package can now be downloaded or ordered from somewhere for free/cost-of-media/similarly low cost. Comments or suggestions? Some questions I have: a) should there be a separate category for software for classic systems which is still being sold and supported (a la the older Ambrosia shareware games for Mac, like Escape Velocity, or Create! for NeXTSTep 3.3)? b) should there be an "archive pointer" section that points to existing archives of shareware, such as http://www.peanuts.org/ for NeXT stuff? (I think this would be *far* preferable to trying to catalog every single shareware package on every archive....) I don't have any webhosting skills or abilities, so I can't set this up, but if I can help, let me know. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967

21 years, 10 months

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What is bigger than a "super Jumbo Colossal" olive? (was: 8" hard sectored floppies

by melamy＠earthlink.net

>from someone who has a hard type forgetting things like that... extended was memory past 1meg and expamded was a memory slot inside the 1meg space sigh best regards, Steve Thatcher >--- Original Message --- >From: Tom Jennings <tomj(a)wps.com> >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech(a)classiccmp.org> >Date: 6/4/04 3:33:57 PM > On Thu, 2004-06-03 at 17:03, Fred Cisin wrote: > >> But, then, when density was finally increased, "quad density" >> and "super density" were already used up as names, so the >> mindless jerks called it "HD"/"High Density". "HD"/"High Density" >> is MFM at 500K bits per second data transfer rate on a 360 >> RPM drive. (Which is exactly what 8" DD was) > >Fred, you should stop remembering these things, it's bad for you. > > >PS: To this day I can't remember which is which, EXTENDED or EXPANDED >memory, thankfully there's no need to any more. >

21 years, 10 months

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Computer flooring/flooding/water in computer rooms

by classiccmp.org＠irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk

I was at a customers some years back.. Old building, but it had been totally gutted and all new insides. There was a small cupboard to the side of the computer room (actually more of an office, where the MVME based Motorola unix box and one of the patch panels lived) inside of which was the main fusebox for the floor. 415V three phase splitting off to (our normal) separate 240V circuits.. Anyway, I was sat at a desk with my back to the cupboard, server in front and to my left, and suddenly heard running water... turned around, and the wall behind me was swimming... opened the cupboard and it was pouring down the cables and across the fusebox.. The power went off shortly afterwards.. luckily it missed the server, which was on a UPS, and we did an orderly shutdown. It was Air Conditioning again .... For some reason known only to themselves, the AirCon plant for the floor was situated in the loft (Attic) directly above the computer room. It had a drip tray under it, which wasn't secured, nor drained properly. When it got full, it tilted, and dispensed it's entire load of water onto the floor, and hence us below! It did it again a few weeks later, too.... Not as much fun as the time we got a phonecall from a customer saying "My computer just blew up". We chuckled and said we'd come have a look, expecting a fuse blown or something. Arrived and found a PC clone with all the blanking plates, buttons, and the front of the floppy drive on the floor in front of it, the blanking plates on the expansion slots all bowed outwards, and a nasty smell in the air. We decided the remove the machine from site before opening it ... When we did, found it was a 486 machine where the battery backed CMOS ram was (had been) baked up by an external battery plugged into the board. This had been stuck to the back panel of the box. It had exploded! Possibly connected to the board backwards? The force of the explosion had been enough to fling bits of battery and the plastic box it was encased in /through/ the ribbon cables in the machine, as well as the aforementioned ejection of all loose fittings on the case. Battery acid everywhere, too, eating through tracks on everything. The hard disc survived long enough to get the data off it, but the rest of the machine was pretty much destroyed. And this poor girl had had it under her desk by her feet when it had gone bang! Poor thing must have had the shock of her life! Rob.

21 years, 10 months

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Half bad 2716s was:Re: 8" hard sectored floppies

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Pete Turnbull" <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> > >On Jun 4, 14:14, Joe R. wrote: >> Dwight, >> >> I have a programmer that's suppsoed to be for the intel 2704 and >2708. >> I've never seen any info on the 2704 and I've never seen one but I'm >> guessing that it's a half bad 2708. Do you know any more about it? > >Maybe. If so it must have been identified before the leads were added, >because the Intel Data Catalogue 1976 lists both 2704 and 2708 on the >same page, and the only difference is pin 22. On a 2708, that's A9, on >a 2704 it's always 0V (always 0V, cf 2716/2758 below). No pictures, >unfortunately, so no immediate way to tell if the dies look the same. > >Interestingly, the 1976 book doesn't list anything bigger than a 2708. > So a 2708 obviously wasn't a half-bad 2716 (at least, Intel ones >weren't). Hi No, I was talking about Intel's 2508( maybe 2758 from your later note ), not the 2708 that was a multi-voltage part. Dwight > >The 1979 Data Catalogue lists the 2704 only as a footnote to the 2708 >description, and the 2716 appears only as a single-rail version. I >thought they did both, but I must have been thinking of another >manufacturer. > >The 1979 book lists 2716, 2732, and 2578. The 2758 has exactly the >same power consumption, access times, programming, and pinout as the >2716, except that pin 19 is A10 on a 2716 and is AR on a 2758. AR is >"select reference input voltage". The tables show this as always Vil >(ie, 0V) but in one place only, the small print says that it's always >0V *except* for devices labelled "2758 S1865", when it needs to be Vih >(+5V). Hmm, that sounds exactly like Dwight's description of a half >bad chip to me :-) > > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York >

21 years, 10 months

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Cromemco memory

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

Oops, I deleted the original so can't reply directly to it :-( I hope someone has better info than me, because although I think I have a 16KZ-K for my Cromemco, the only manuals I can find are for Godbout, Irvine, Integrand, Tuscan, and a few other memory boards -- none of which I have! All I can find is the entry in the 1978 Cromemco Microcomputer Systems catalogue, which says that it offers expandability to 512K bytes with bank select, has fully-transparent dynamic refresh, operates at 4MHz with no wait states, and costs $495 (fully assembled, tested, and burned in, as the 16KZ-W, is $595). "With bank select each memory board may reside in one or more of the 8 possible memory banks. An 8-position DIP switch on the board is used to select each of the banks in which the board resides. "The active bank or banks of memory are selected under software control. Output port 40H is dedicated to this function. Each of the 8 bits of data of output port 40H are used to turn on or off the corresponding bank of memory. A "1" in the corresponding bit position will turn on the memory bank. A "0" will turn it off. All circuitry required to detect the output of 40H is included on the memory card itself. "Bank select provides a convenient method by which to expand system memory space beyond 64K. Bank select also permits the implementation of time-sharing systems with a minimum of software overhead - up to 8 users can use the system simultaneously with each confined to his own bank of memory." This implies the card can be multiply decoded (to appear more than once). I imagine if you want it to appear from 0000H to 0FFFFH, you turn on the switch in position 1, and turn off the rest (unless you want it to appear elsewhere as well). Similarly to appear from 10000H to 1FFFFH, switch position 2. Although, since it's easier to provide a pullup resistor than a pulldown on TTL, likely "switch on" grounds the line and means a "0". Try it and see! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 10 months

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Half bad 2716s was:Re: 8" hard sectored floppies

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 4, 14:14, Joe R. wrote: > Dwight, > > I have a programmer that's suppsoed to be for the intel 2704 and 2708. > I've never seen any info on the 2704 and I've never seen one but I'm > guessing that it's a half bad 2708. Do you know any more about it? Maybe. If so it must have been identified before the leads were added, because the Intel Data Catalogue 1976 lists both 2704 and 2708 on the same page, and the only difference is pin 22. On a 2708, that's A9, on a 2704 it's always 0V (always 0V, cf 2716/2758 below). No pictures, unfortunately, so no immediate way to tell if the dies look the same. Interestingly, the 1976 book doesn't list anything bigger than a 2708. So a 2708 obviously wasn't a half-bad 2716 (at least, Intel ones weren't). The 1979 Data Catalogue lists the 2704 only as a footnote to the 2708 description, and the 2716 appears only as a single-rail version. I thought they did both, but I must have been thinking of another manufacturer. The 1979 book lists 2716, 2732, and 2578. The 2758 has exactly the same power consumption, access times, programming, and pinout as the 2716, except that pin 19 is A10 on a 2716 and is AR on a 2758. AR is "select reference input voltage". The tables show this as always Vil (ie, 0V) but in one place only, the small print says that it's always 0V *except* for devices labelled "2758 S1865", when it needs to be Vih (+5V). Hmm, that sounds exactly like Dwight's description of a half bad chip to me :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 10 months

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8" hard sectored floppies

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Tom Jennings" <tomj(a)wps.com> > >On Thu, 2004-06-03 at 18:18, Fred Cisin wrote: > >> > We used to pay $80 for a box of DSDD Dysan 8" floppies and align the >> > disk drives every year with a Dysan alignment diskette and an >> > oscilloscope. That's what it took for repeatable reliability. It sucked. >> >> ... and yet nobody was buying 8" Dysan alignment diskettes and new >> shrinkwrapped Dysan floppies at $1 per diskette at VCF! My biggest >> market segment was teachers who each wanted ONE diskette to wave in >> the air when talking to classes about the days of dinosaurs. > >No, and you don't see people wearing onions around their neck anymore to >ward off illness either. > >Man, like many others I used to do edits and huge (sic) compiles and >library building and linking, HOONK HOONK HOONK for hours, every day, >for however long an individual floppy lasted. (1.25MB each, seemed like >a lotta space at the time.) THAT ate up floppies and drives! I put >solidstate relays on the big AC motors and let them run down after some >idle period, that helped. Hi A handy thing to have is a handfull of bearings and a bearing puller. Dwight

21 years, 10 months

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8" hard sectored floppies

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Roger Merchberger" <zmerch(a)30below.com> > >Rumor has it that Nico de Jong may have mentioned these words: > >> > I have a DEC RX01 drive and the box of floppies that I have >> > with it are 8 inch single sided single density. Are 8" hard >> > sectored floppies compatible with these? >> >>Hard and Soft sectored disks are never compatible. > >Ah, never say never, my friend! ;-) > >I know little about 8" floppies, but I know that Apple ][ 5.25" drives >(which used GCR encoding, IIRC) could use hard or soft sector floppies. It >actually wrote an "index blip" (for lack of the correct term) on the disk >itself during format & used that instead of any physical hole(s) in the disk. > Hi I also believe that one can use hard sectored disk in place of soft sectored disk in most machines( of course formatted as soft sectored ). There is a difference between single and double density that is related to the position of the index hole. My understanding is that unlike the 5-1/4 disks, the 8 in. media is the same for the single and double density, just higher quality. In fact, I punch a new index window in some of my double density 8 inch floppies and I've been using them, with no troubles, as single density. The 5-1/4 disk are a different story. Single/Double don't mix. Dwight

21 years, 10 months

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8" hard sectored floppies

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Ron Hudson" <ron.hudson(a)sbcglobal.net> > > >> On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: >> There used to be a popular folk myth that all single sided diskettes >> actually double sided ones that had failed testing on one side. >> I find it hard to believe that any company could be profitable >> with THAT high a failure rate! >> >I once worked in memorex in the tape plant where open reel tape was made >and that is exactly how it was done, raw tape was run through error >detecting >machines and sorted. > > Hi This thinking always reminds me of a story from Intel. When they first started making 2716's, TI was biting into their 2708 market with the 2758's. Intel fought back with their version of the 2508. These were early half bad failures from the 2716 line. They even had a H/L pin to select which half to use. When they first started, they sold for quite a bit less than the 2716's ( about $30 ea ). Over time, the 2716's pricing went down to around $4 someplace. I got a kick out of seeing one of their price list showing the 2508's still being sold for $32 ea. While I suspect that originally the half bad parts made sense but at the premium price they got for these, I suspect that they later just took fully tested 2716's and relabeled them. I wonder how many purchasing agents realized that the 2716's worked just as well. Dwight

21 years, 10 months

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Cromemco 64KZ and other S-100 board information needed

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

I have a Cromemco 64KZ-II memory board but no manual. If anyone has a manual in PDF format, that would be ideal, but in the absence of that, I'd settle for a short description of how the board is organized and what the 3 dip switches and two LEDs do. I am also looking for the following manuals if anyone has these in PDF formats: IMSAI VIO, MIO and SIO2-2 Processor Technology VDM-1 and 3P+S Industrial Microsystems 8K static memory board Seals 8K Static Ram I have over 100 manuals in PDF format, and have made significant contributions to the S-100 manual library at: http://www.hartetechnologies.com/manuals/ Direct E-Mail responses would be appreciated. Thanks, Barry Watzman Watzman(a)neo.rr.com

21 years, 10 months

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Rackmount MAC Classic

by jbmcb＠hotmail.com

I would guess it has something to do with Labview. Labview was originally developed on the Mac (No decent Windows GUI back then, though I think there was an OS/2 version) Labview in a rack-mount would have been pretty sweet at the time. Damn, another Apple clone to add to my wish list.. >From: "Steven Canning" <cannings(a)earthlink.net> >Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >Posts"<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech(a)classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: Rackmount MAC Classic >Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 20:08:17 -0700 > >On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > >Never seen this before: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4604&item=4134681929& >rd=1 > >A Rackmountable MAC Classic with a VME Backplane..... > >Wow, how cool is that? > >But my question is, "why?" > > >To further the "why" question..... quoting my wise grandfather, "Just >because you 'can' put a diamond in a goat's ass, doesn't mean you should >!" > >regards, SAC > > _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

21 years, 10 months

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Rackmount MAC Classic

by RMeenaks＠OLF.COM

Never seen this before: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4604&item=4134681929& rd=1 A Rackmountable MAC Classic with a VME Backplane..... Ram (c) 2004 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use.

21 years, 10 months

5
5
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8" hard sectored floppies

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 3, 21:56, Don Maslin wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > The original IBM hard-sectored 8" floppies had 8 sectors, and I don't > > think 3M ever made those :-) > > Do you know how they formatted them, Pete? Perhaps 512/sector? I don't know. I've never actually seen one (except in photos), let alone used one. I know they only held 80K, spun in the opposite direction to modern floppies, were much thicker, and (for the customer) were read-only. http://www.computerworld.com/news/1999/story/0,11280,62286,00.html http://history.acusd.edu/gen/recording/mag/p42.html -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 10 months

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Classic PDP-8 wire wrap bits

by aek＠spies.com

I was thinking about the poor guy in Finland that was going to have to rewire his PDP-7 backplane tonight, and did some digging for bit/sleeve part numbers. Amazingly, you can still buy the right stuff from Cooper Tools. They have a really neat pdf catalog http://www.cooperhandtools.com/catalog/pdffiles/electcat_00/Brands/WireWrap… >From a 1967 DEC Logic Handbook, you need a gardner-denver 26263 bit and 18840 sleeve for #24 wire and 504221 bit and 500350 sleeve for #30 wire. The #24 unwrapping tool is 500130 These may also work for 1401 connectors, which are quite similar to the H800 DEC single sided module blocks with rectangular shaped pins.

21 years, 10 months

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8" hard sectored floppies

by d_cymbal＠hotmail.com

Are hard sectored 8" floppies of any use to anyone? I've got several boxes of still shrink-wrapped SSSD hard sector disks. I've sold a couple boxes on epay, but action on them was lower than I'd imagined. Some folks who resell alot of 8" floppies told me "good luck" because hard sectored just don't sell. I've seen new soft sectored disks advertised online for fairly hefty prices (don't know if they are selling at that price or not). What systems made use of these? Any that I might own or want to own some day that it'd be worth me holding on to these if I can't sell them for a price worth it to drive to the post office and ship them?

21 years, 10 months

10
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Computer flooring/flooding/water in computer rooms

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Huw Davies <huw.davies(a)kerberos.davies.net.au> wrote: > to avoid waste water from the computer room contaminating the > mouse rooms below. What's a mouse room? MS

21 years, 10 months

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8" hard sectored floppies

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 3, 13:08, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > I'm almost sure I've seen a 16 hard sectored 8 inch disk someplace. > > On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, Don Maslin wrote: > > I suppose that is possible, Dwight, but it may be a surprise to 3M! > > Although I do not have any examples handy, it would not surprise > me at all to find out that there exist SOME media that weren't > available from 3M! The original IBM hard-sectored 8" floppies had 8 sectors, and I don't think 3M ever made those :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 10 months

2
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Found Today - Sony SMC-2000, etc.

by marvin＠rain.org

Something I've wanted for quite a while is a Sony SMC-2000 computer with the LDP-2000 laserdisc player. Today I finally got it! This unit had been used by a local school and they needed to get rid of it. It came with some laserdiscs and ... four service manuals for both the computer and laserdisc player! Apparently this runs MS-DOS 2.11 and I don't think that came with it. But unless that is a special OEM version of MS-DOS, it won't be a problem. Also included were 8 laserdiscs including three volumes of Dream Machine and two volumes of Space Archive discs. They also had several shrinkwrapped packages of IBM DOS 3.30, and I put one of them on VCM. Also listed on VCM was a copy of the IBM Guide to Operations for the Personal Computer XT, and Volume 1 of the Hardware Maintenance and Service for the Personal Computer XT (these are duplicates of what I already have.) BTW, the money received for these will go back to the school computer lab. They had quite a bit of stuff that will either be sold or sent to that great storage location in the sky. It looked like there were quite a few ISA sound cards, network hubs (10 Mb/sec), etc.

21 years, 10 months

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8" hard sectored floppies

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

I've never seen any Wabash or Elephant 8" disks. Joe At 05:52 PM 6/3/04 -0400, you wrote: >you forgot Wabash and Elephant disks... at least I have those laying around the house... > >best regards, Steve Thatcher > > >-----Original Message----- >From: "Joe R." <rigdonj(a)cfl.rr.com> >Sent: Jun 3, 2004 5:09 PM >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: 8" hard sectored floppies > >At 01:08 PM 6/3/04 -0700, Grumpy Ol' Fred wrote: >>> > I'm almost sure I've seen a 16 hard sectored 8 inch disk someplace. >> >>On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, Don Maslin wrote: >>> I suppose that is possible, Dwight, but it may be a surprise to 3M! >> >>Although I do not have any examples handy, it would not surprise >>me at all to find out that there exist SOME media that weren't >>available from 3M! > > Let's see; IBM, Tektronix, Verbatim, Memorex, Digital, Maxell, Intel, >Centech, Radio Shack, Data Systems. That's just some that I have laying >around the house. > > Joe > > >

21 years, 10 months

2
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8" hard sectored floppies

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Don Maslin" <donm(a)cts.com> > > >On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, Frank Smith wrote: > >> --On Wednesday, June 02, 2004 13:22:39 -0400 Damien Cymbal <d_cymbal(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Are hard sectored 8" floppies of any use to anyone? I've got several boxes of still shrink-wrapped SSSD hard sector disks. I've sold a couple boxes on epay, but action on them was lower than I'd imagined. Some folks who resell alot of 8" floppies >> > told me "good luck" because hard sectored just don't sell. >> > >> > I've seen new soft sectored disks advertised online for fairly hefty prices (don't know if they are selling at that price or not). What systems made use of these? Any that I might own or want to own some day that it'd be worth me holding on to these >> > if I can't sell them for a price worth it to drive to the post office and ship them? >> >> I'd be willing to buy a box or two of them to use in my Altair floppy drives if >> they are 32 sector floppies. >> >> Frank > >To the best of my knowledge, all 8" hard sectored disk are 32 >sector. The only difference is between the 'normal' hard sector >arrangement where the sector holes encircle the hub hole, whereas >the 'Vydec' compatible disks have the sector holes around the >periphery. They are not common, however. > > - don > Hi Don I'm almost sure I've seen a 16 hard sectored 8 inch disk someplace. Dwight

21 years, 10 months

6
11
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What's the best way to cut a PB book apart for scanning?

by aek＠spies.com

I found my Millenium MicroSystem Analyzer manual while searching for the manual for the Brikon 723 FD tester. I thought I'd scan it but it's bound into a paper back book. What's the best way to cut it apart so that I can scan it? My scanner has a feeder and it's th only way to scan something. -- If the glue has dried out, just break the binding and peel the pages apart. clean the hardened glue off the edge before feeding through the scanner. Alternatively, go to a print shop and have them cut the binding with a paper shear, making sure the spine of the book is flat.

21 years, 10 months

2
1
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mailserver delays

by rachael＠rachael.dyndns.org

As it seems my mail server has been having some problems, I`m very sorry that my replys have been delayed so many days. for some unknown reason my replyes had been frozen in exim. with delayed regards Jacob Dahl Pind -- CBM, Amiga,Vintage hardware collector Email: rachael(a)rachael.dyndns.org url: http://rachael.dyndns.org

21 years, 10 months

1
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8" hard sectored floppies

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Pete Turnbull" <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> > >On Jun 3, 10:39, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >> There is a difference between single and double >> density that is related to the position of the index hole. > >Are you thinking of the different position of the index hole in 8" >disks? That differentiates single-sided from double-sided, not >densities. Yep, that is it. Dwight > >> My >> understanding is that unlike the 5-1/4 disks, the 8 in. media >> is the same for the single and double density, just higher >> quality. In fact, I punch a new index window in some of my >> double density 8 inch floppies and I've been using them, with >> no troubles, as single density. >> The 5-1/4 disk are a different story. Single/Double don't mix. > >Sure they do. Same coercivity. There might be a difference in quality >on early ones, but barring flaws in the emulsion coating, they're >interchangeable, and you can always use DD as SD. > >It's single/double density and high density that are different. > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York >

21 years, 10 months

1
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Wanted: M9312 ROMs (data i/o help needed)

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

(1) I have a 29A manual but there's no device codes in it. The codes are in the manual for the particular plugin that you're using so you'll have to tell us which one you're using. (2) I think I have a 29B manual but I'll have to look for it. (3) I didn't think the 29x programmers could program Bipolar PROMs but I'd be happy for someone to prove me wrong! (4) FYI Just because the PROMs are 82S131, Am27S13, 63S241, 74S571, etc don't think that they're all the same. They may be interchangeable in a read-only operataion but they're programmed very differently. You MUST have the proper settings and adapaters for the PROM that you're using. Joe At 06:56 PM 5/27/04 -0700, you wrote: >I made images of all my roms, but the burner I used is ancient and >non-standard so they likely won't help, I want to read them with >something a little more standard, a DATAI/O 29b... has anyone got the >"device code" for the 82S131? > >thanks, > Pavl_ > >> sure I'll host it. I'll just put it under www.classiccmp.org/M9312 >> >> Someone just give me the files! >> >> Jay >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John A. Dundas III" <dundas(a)caltech.edu> >> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >> <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:31 PM >> Subject: Re: Wanted: M9312 ROMs >> >> >>> I agree with Fred: I'd like to see an electronic library of 9312 >>> bootstraps that we could all share and download as necessary. I >have >>> a /84 and /70 that I'd like to get images for (TK50, etc.) that I >>> don't already have. Burning an EPROM seems like an easy way to >go. >>> >>> Any images already archived? >>> >>> Any volunteers to host a collection? >>> >>> John > > > >

21 years, 10 months

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