- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by aek＠spies.com

In the upcoming days, I'll be able to send you a description of the hardware -- Is there any documentation with the system? The System 80 was the last descendent of the Univac 9000 series, a 360-ish 32 bit architecture. I had a little exposure to a 9300, which was very much like a 360 with the exception of I/O I'm sure all of this evolved as did the 360 to 370 over 20+ years.

21 years, 11 months

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Unisys System 80 pictures available

by cheri-post＠web.de

Hi all ! Several of you were interested in pictures of the Unisys Mainframe. In the upcoming days, I'll be able to send you a description of the hardware (I don't have access to the descriptions at the moment). It would be nice, if somebody could put these pics online in a computer museum or so 'cause I haven't seen pictures of the System 80 on the internet so far. Greetings Pierre ____________________________________________________ Aufnehmen, abschicken, nah sein - So einfach ist WEB.DE Video-Mail: http://freemail.web.de/?mc=021200

21 years, 11 months

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Why does my KDF11 cause spurious traps to 4??

by trash3＠splab.cas.neu.edu

My first guess is a bus error. Is it a real qbus with a terminator on the far end? Joe Heck

21 years, 11 months

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MTI QTS30 SCSI QBUS module

by lbickley＠bickleywest.com

I have a MTI QTS30 SCSI QBUS module - but no docs. The port-vax list states the following: QTS30 -------- Type: disk controller Bus: Q-bus Bus protocol: E(?) Vendor: MTI Specification: SCSI disks Last updated: 1998-02-06 But has no information regarding jumper settings, capabilities, etc. Any help would be appreciated!!! Thanks, Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

21 years, 11 months

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Very important: Restoration of an Onyx Systems C8002

by cheri-post＠web.de

> Moreover,serveral tapes are corroded. > > -- > > There were many different recording formats used with DC300 style > tape cartridges before the QIC standards were established. Onyx > tapes predate those standards. Assuming the tape itself isn't > damaged, you can put the reels into new shells. You will need to > use a DEI drive to read them. The shells are ok, the tapes themselves are corroded. I'm not very optimistic about these, but we'll see. > > As I keep telling people, DON'T EXPERIMENT WITH TAPES YOU CARE > ABOUT WITH DRIVES IN UNKNOWN CONDITION! Until now, I haven't tried to read the tapes :-) > > It sounds like the capstan was bad in the unit, try some other > cart you don't care about before risking these tapes (which are > quite rare) in that drive. That's the reason I bought new ones to test the drive, in case the Onyx works. > > It would be a good thing to take high resolution pics of the boards > and to dump any programmable parts. I can take pictures next week and put them online. But why should I dump the programmable parts ? Pierre _______________________________________________________ WEB.DE Video-Mail - Sagen Sie mehr mit bewegten Bildern Informationen unter: http://freemail.web.de/?mc=021199

21 years, 11 months

2
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Help on Morrow Decision I - docs or direct experience?

by r.stek＠snet.net

My last S-100 I purchsaed before caving in to an IBM clone was the Morrow Decision I. I loved its ability to handle N* hard-sectored as well as soft-sectored 5" disks as well as 8" drives, and of course a huge 15 MB hard drive I had salvaged from my Horizon. Alas I sold it before moving back to the US from Canada. I now have a Decision I (with a more industrial metal case, locking key-switch plus built-in Fujitsu hard drive and more "sophisticated" MB) and Allison Parent was kind enough to get the switching PS going again for me, and I finally tried hooking it up to a Televideo terminal. There are 4 ports on the "MB" - 3 standard 25 pin D-connectors and 1 15 pin, all coming off the back of the MB. Upon booting, it sounds like the HD is loading, but I get no response, not even garbage, from any of the 3 25 pin connectors. (And I don't have a 15 pin connector right now to make an adapter, so chances are that the 15 pin connector is the 'master' serial port while the other three are for the multi-user Micronix which apparently this Decision I was set up for (I also found some hand-written labels on one of the boards referencing "M*nix") or are parallel ports. Anyway, this is not the Decision I that I had some familiarity with. Is there anyone out there who knows this machine who could help me get it up and running again? I have the docs for the Z80 CPU, the Disc Jockey DMA controller, the hard drive controller and the 256k memory card, but not for the 'advanced' MB (I don't know enough circuitry to figure out what the heck all the extra stuff is - obviously some serial ports or maybe a combination of serial and parallel). I don't even know at this point if this unit can be made to run plain vanilla CP/M (or preferably ZCPR) (I found some web references to Micronix having to "transfer" files from a CP/M disk over to Micronix before they could be used.) I don't even know if there are any specific "features" which would prevent me from running CP/M on this unit. I also have some Morrow 5" and 8" diskettes with CP/M and CBIOS files for various combinations of 5" and 8" configuartions off the the DJ DMA board. At this point ANYTHING anyone can tell me about the Micronix Decision I would be helpful. Thanks. Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols (...and other stuff)

21 years, 11 months

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Source for spacewar

by aek＠spies.com

> Would anyone have sourcecode for Spacewar, for any old mini? Steve Russell's original is up on bitsavers under DEC/pdp1 I would hope someone still has the sources for the PDP12 version. Eric Smith just retyped the version that was in Byte in 1978. here's the full url for the original. http://bitsavers.org/DEC/pdp1/papertapeImages/20031202/SteveRussell_box1/_t…

21 years, 11 months

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RK05 stuff

by GOOI＠oce.nl

Ashley, perhaps "kicking an open door", but you know that the 4 cards of the RK11 go in a *dedicated* 4-slot backplane? *not* in 4 SPC slots of the 11/34 backplane. For more info on the PDP-11/34, check my website www.pdp-11.nl and click the 11/34 link. There is also some stuff about the floating point processor and the cache module, including the power distribution when you want to install both options. [reminds me, there are still a few missing pictures of the OTT, over-the-top connectors; somewhere on my (too long) to-do list]. - Henk, PA8PDP. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ashley Carder > Sent: maandag 19 juli 2004 4:44 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: RK05 stuff > > > I reracked these drives into a tall cabinet today so I could > get to the tops and bottoms of both drives. In the process > of moving the drives, I unhooked the cable that connects the > two drives together (drive 0 and drive 1). I decided to > check the drive that did not have a cable connected to it > (drive 1), and it magically works now (in standalone mode). > The drive spins up, the heads move in, no terrible > sounds or anything like that. The READY and ON-CYL lights > light up and all appears to be fine. The other drive that > still has the cables connected to it still didn't spin up. > I then removed the M930C terminator card from drive 1 and > put it in drive zero, removed the card that had the > controller cable attached to it (M993 RK8E cable), and > powered it up. I then tried loading a pack and this drive > works too, spins up, moves the heads and lights the READY > and ON-CYL lights. > > Next step is to make sure these drives have the right cards > to be able to hook up to an RK11 controller (the M993 having > RK8E written on it doesn't sound good), install the > RK11 card set in my 11/34 and connect the drives and see > if RSTS/E recognizes it. > > I do suppose that I should do some cleaning on these drives > because although the foam hasn't turned to goop yet, I do > see a few small fragments of the foam laying inside the drive > area that I didn't see before. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 12:26 AM > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: RK05 stuff (was RE: cctalk Digest, Vol 10, Issue 74) > > > > > > I've tried both of my RK05 drives. They power on fine. Blower > > seems to be fine. I put a pack in, press the run switch. The > > motor never comes on that turns the drive. The same thing > > happens in both drives. Neither drive will start spinning at > > all. > > > > Any ideas on where to start looking? > > Firslty, put a termionator card (M930) into one of the cable > connector > slots if the drive is not cabled up anyway with a terminator > in the 'out' > slot of the last drive. I seem to rememebr that RK05s do odd > things if > they're not terminated (and you might also want to try it > with the drive > disconnected from the controller, with just a terminator, in > case it's > something like the ACLO/DCLO lines on the bus being asserted). > > Now, the spindle motor is controlled by a relay on top of the > PSU. From > what you say in another message that relay is never being > energised. The > next thing to do is to trace the relay coil signal back to > the logic and > to find out what has to be asserted for the relay to pull in. There's > certainly an interlock switch circuit -- 2 switches in series > IIRC that > detect that there's a pack in and the door is closed. > Obviosuly the RUN > switch has to be on. And I think there's some kind of power-OK line. > Maybe more. Now find out which (if any) of those signals are > not being > asserted (if all of them are, then trace through the logic itself, of > course), and find out why not. Maybe just a switch that's not > closing, > maybe more. > > If you need more help, I'll dig out the prints, but it's a > little late to > do that tonight :-) > > -tony > >

21 years, 11 months

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Connecting a FPF11 to a 11/23+ (Dumb Questions)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jul 18, 23:18, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Sun, Jul 18, 2004 at 11:22:05PM +0100, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Yes, for an 11/23. For an 11/24, no, it goes after the KT24 and the > > memory but before anything else. > > I haven't seen the FPF11, but mightn't it have different grant jumpers > (zero ohm resistors near the fingers) for installation in an 11/23 and > an 11/24? Yes, it has a total of 12 jumpers. All the ones that are "in" for Unibus should be "out" for Qbus, and vice-versa. Jumper: W1 W2 W3 W4 W5 W6 W7 W8 W9 W10 W11 W12 Unibus: R R I R R I I I I R I I QBus: I I R I I I R R I I R R (I = inserted R = removed) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 11 months

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CORRECTION: re: VCF East 2.0 / Computer Collector E-mail Newsletter

by news＠computercollector.com

A correction: Sellam's replica for the Tokyo museum is of a PDP-1, not a PDP-8. - Evan K.

21 years, 11 months

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Why does my KDF11 cause spurious traps to 4??

by bob＠jfcl.com

Hello, I've got a 11/23+ in a BA23 and when running RT11 I get spurious and unexpected traps to 4. After while I noticed that it will do the same thing while running the extended memory test built into the boot ROMs. I pulled out all the cards except the CPU and the memory and it still does it, and after swapping memory with another QBUS system that's known to work I've pretty much come to the conclusion that it's not the memory. Bummer - looks like the KDF11 is at fault. I actually cobbled the system together myself from an assortment of cards and parts, so it's not unlikely that I did something wrong. Is there any obvious mistake or mis-setting of the KDF11 jumpers that would cause this, or is my CPU card hosed? Thanks, Bob Armstrong

21 years, 11 months

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VCF East 2.0 wrap-up: Computer Collector E-mail Newsletter

by evan947＠yahoo.com

Hello fellow collectors, VCF East 2.0 was terrific, and I'm sure Sellam Ismail will comment on it soon, when he's recovered from the long flight home! Meanwhile, below is my own view of the show, as printed in this week's issue of the Computer Collector E-mail Newsletter (http://news.computercollector.com -- it's FREE to subscribe.) ==================================================== BURLINGTON, MASSACHUSETTS, Sun Microsystems -- This week, I'm happy to report that VCF East 2.0 was a success. Everyone learned something, or bought something, or just enjoyed reminiscing. Personally, I experienced all three, and took home a second-place award in the "other" category for my exhibit, "PDAs: 1973-1993". (Compared to all the minis and micros, my PDAs and heldhelds fell into the "other" category. Hopefully in the future there will be enough people who collect luggables, notebooks, handhelds, and transputers to make "portables" a full category of its own.) Here are some of the event highlights, from my point of view. - Friday morning set-up. A great thing about VCF events is that everyone helps with the venue set-up. Getting vintage computers to work, especially for people who traveled a long distance to attend, can be challenging. Luckily, there's no better place than a VCF floor to find knowledgeable people who can help you. From schlepping to sharing power cords to configuring boot-up sequences, there was something for everyone to do. Unlike during the public exhibition hours when you end up showing the same functions of your computers over and over, during the set-up period you can really get your hands dirty and learn something, and that certainly was the case this time. At one point we all learned that the power outlets in our portion of the Sun building shared just TWO circuits. Thankfully nobody killed the power for eastern Massachusetts. (Everyone setting up Friday morning also is indebted to Sun for letting us take over their building and parking lot, and especially to public relations staffer Samantha Moulton, who served as the event liaison. Sam: THANK YOU!) - Also Friday morning, many exhibitors took a break from set-up and joined the attendees at the speaking sessions. My own exhibit set-up is relatively simple, so I went to the first two sessions - Curt Vendel and Steve Golson's Atari "7800 20th Anniversary" talk, and event owner/newsletter writer Sellam Ismail's "VCF Ramblings" talk. In the Atari talk I learned the reality vs. the legend of how Atari's executives ran the company, how that affected customers, and how companies like Coleco and Nintendo exploited Atari's mistakes. The talk also gave me some new respect for the technical brilliance of the 7800 and its developers. Next, in Sellam's talk, I learned the details of his PDP-8 replica for Tokyo's National Science Museum. The replica worked by running Bob Supnik's simulator software on a Linux computer behind a "blinkenlights" front panel, with the computer case itself made from wood. Besides the case, I was amazed to learn how many of the replica's switches and other electromechanical parts came not from a computer parts bin, but from Sellam's local hardware store! Now that the PDP-8 and other replicas are built, Sellam says he'll build one for anybody. More information will come in the future. Unfortunately I missed Bob Supnik's own talk, and that of Sun's panel on the history of storage networks. The good news is that all of the panels were recorded, so hopefully they will be available soon for public viewing. We'll let you know the details as soon as possible. - The influx of Sun employees -- almost 1,000 work at the Burlington facility -- into Friday's public exhibits was terrific. At my own exhibit, I really enjoyed that so many of them appreciated my handhelds collection and asked smart questions. Looking over the 20 or so devices that I brought along, many commented that they owned this or that device back when it was new. But even among them, most were suprised to learn some of the virtually unknown PDA functions and options that existed in the mid-to-late 1970s and early 1980s. That's definitely inspiration for me to keep collecting and researching. - Vince Briel's Replica 1. Vince, congratulations on winning the "Best of Show" award! Vince's exhibit area was right next to mine, so during the rare slow times, I talked to him about his project. My soldering skills are shaky, but I'm strongly considering attemting the Apple 1 replica build. Vince generously took the time to explain every step to me, in terms I could understand. If I do attempt the project, then I'll record every detail here in the newsletter. The moral? If I can do it, anyone can, trust me! Vince also impressed everyone with his industrial design skills, as the Replica 1 he brought along has a case made of see-through plexiglass, with a hinged top cover. As cool as an Apple 1 replica is, this made it even nicer. - Friday night's VCF party. At the day's end, almost all of the exhibitors and their guests -- about 25 people -- went to dinner together at a local steakhouse, with the outside modeled to look like railroad cars. Beer, many laughs, and the meat all came in large quantities. Of course vintage computer collectors come in all shapes and sizes -- and boy, can some of them eat! I'll refrain from naming the guilty, you know who you are. :) - Saturday's talks and exhibit. We all dragged ourselves out of bed Saturday morning and, once again, encroached on Sun. The highlight from Saturday was Art Hill's talk, "A Personal History of Computing," during which the 82-year-old Hill (who has more energy than me, at 29!) wowed everyone with his stories. To me the most exciting part was that Hill actually worked with and learned from J. Presper Eckert and John W. Mauchly, the builders of ENIAC. He also worked with the famous Navy Adm. Grace Hopper, who was largely responsible for COBOL, the "common business-oriented language," who but did not (despite the myth) coin the term "bug" in reference to computing. Some of Art's stories were wilder than others,but as he admits, age has a way of muddying the details. I missed the next talk on the IBM/360 by Lawrence Wilkinson, as I had to prepare for my own talk that afternoon, and I missed the final talk, from John Titus who developed the Mark-8 hobbyist kit. (I'd like to think my own talk on the history of PDAs was a show "highlight" for others! A good sign came through the www.classiccmp.org mailing list last night, as an attendee mentioned on the list that "There is actually an HP41 calculator here," referring to my own exhibit. So it's not just computer collectors that come in all shapes and sizes -- it's the computers too.) Overall, Saturday's attendence at the exhibits was a little slower than Friday's, but it gave the exhibitors themselves a chance to check out each other's work. I brought home many good memories and a few new toys from VCF East. After dinner Friday night, I helped classiccmp.org administrator Jay West and others swap some DEC and other gear between minivans and trailers in the Marriott parking lot -- we sure hope Jay made it home safely to Kansas City, after his flat-tire adventures during the inbound trip on I-84 in Connecticut. It was also great to see newsletter founder Mike Nadeau sell many copies of his book, "Collectible Microcomputers." I experienced a really funny moment as well: at one point Friday, Sellam walked over to my exhibit and, not joking, asked "Got a calculator?" Given the nature of vintage PDAs, I had about 15 calculators! Finding one that was JUST a simple calculator and had fresh batteries was the challenge, but we eventually did. Many of us went to dinner again on Saturday night, and once again I was wowed by the computing stories (and appetites!) of my fellow hobbyists. As for toys, I acquired a TRS-80 Model 100, and a DVD copy of Steve Wozniak's speech from last year's K-Fest event. (Many VCF attendees will be at the Apple II event this week, including VCF Europa leader Hans Franke and Commodore 64 heroine Jeri Ellsworth. See www.kfest.org for more information.) ==================================================== See you all at VCF 7 -- just THREE MONTHS away! - Evan Koblentz

21 years, 11 months

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VCF East 2.0, Day one.

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jul 16, 22:18, Ashley Carder wrote: > RSTS/E. The early versions were text based and you could run them on > an LA36 DecWriter or ASR-33 teletype. A friend of mine converted one > to run on a VT50 terminal where it would update the screen. > > I might be thinking of a star trek game because the VT50 version was > called TVTREK.BAS, but I think one of the text based games was called > SPACWR.BAS. I have old program listings from 1978 and I think I have > soft copies of some of these. I'll check. SPACWR.BAS is a version of Star Trek, published by David Ahl in "101 BASIC Computer Games". It's not related to Spacewar, which isn't text-based. There is a version of Spacewar for PDP-11, though, with a GT40. I think Megan has a copy, and I think it runs under RT-11. I must fix my GT40 and do something about that... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 11 months

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Connecting a FPF11 to a 11/23+ (Dumb Questions)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jul 17, 22:44, Robert Armstrong wrote: > I just got my hands on an FPF11 board, and naturally I want to connect > it to my 11/23+ right away! I understand that the 40 pin header on the > card edge connects to a 40 pin DIP plug that goes into one of the > microcode option sockets on the 11/23+. Correct. > Dumb question #1 - is it conventional to install the FPF11 in the slot > immediately below the CPU, thus displacing all the memory boards down a > slot? Or does the FPF11 go in the first Q/Q slot (slot 4) ? Or does it > even matter? http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-October/020356.html > Dumb question #2 - the handbook says, "[the FPF11] ... complements the > KEF11-AA". Does this mean that the FIS option chip must _also_ be > installed in the 11/23+? Or must it _not_ be installed? No. No. That is, it doesn't matter :-) > Dumb question #3 - does it matter which one of the microcode option > sockets you plug the FPF11 into? Probably not, though it's meant to go into socket 2. > And... #4 - how do you know if the thing's working? Short of having > the diagnostics for it, of course, which I don't. Run the diags, or run an OS that detects it (RT-11 will) and some code that should run faster if it's there? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 11 months

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Connecting a FPF11 to a 11/23+ (Dumb Questions)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

Sigh. I must not write technical stuff while tired. On Jul 18, 8:16, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jul 17, 22:44, Robert Armstrong wrote: > > Dumb question #1 - is it conventional to install the FPF11 in the > slot > > immediately below the CPU, thus displacing all the memory boards down > a > > slot? Yes, for an 11/23. For an 11/24, no, it goes after the KT24 and the memory but before anything else. > http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-October/020356.html > > > Dumb question #2 - the handbook says, "[the FPF11] ... complements > the > > KEF11-AA". Does this mean that the FIS option chip must _also_ be > > installed in the 11/23+? Or must it _not_ be installed? > > No. No. That is, it doesn't matter :-) Should be "No. Yes." Since the FPF11 plugs into the same socket that the FPP option chip plugs into (the one next to the CPU), of course you can't have both at once. There are no dumb questions, only dumb answers -- and my previous was apparently one of them. Sorry! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 11 months

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Atari TT030 (or ST?) joystick?

by Arno_1983＠gmx.de

Since I've got the User's Manual (and the machine, which I got with a crashed HDD) kicking around... Translated: Chapter 1 - Getting Started: "Most computer games rely on joysticks as input devices. Exactly how the joystick is used depends much on the game itself. Remark: Joysticks are not included. Warning: Broken joysticks can prevent the TT from initializing correctly. If you encounter any problems, you should switch off the computer, remove the joystick(s) and turn the TT on again. Connecting Joysticks Joysticks use the same connector as the Atari Mouse and can be plugged in on either side of the keyboard." Appendix F- Pinouts: "Mouse/Joystick 0 (DE9 male) 1 - XB/Up 2 - XA/Down 3 - YA/Left 4 - YB/Right 5 - middle Button 6 - left Button/Fire Button 7 - +5V 8 - Ground 9 - right Button/Fire Button Joystick 1 (DE9 male) 1 - Up 2 - Down 3 - Left 4 - Right 5 - reserved 6 - Fire Button 7 - +5V 8 - Ground 9 - unused" Hope that helps... Arno Kletzander Stud. Hilfskraft Informatik Sammlung Erlangen --- www.iser.uni-erlangen.de

21 years, 11 months

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Help with Apple2 clone "Orange Peel"

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

Hi Tony, >> So - I have a bit of a paradox : the "2kb/2716" label suggests >> ROM's, and the 64k of RAM on the mainboard also indicates that >> all the RAM is on the lower board, however the ROM strings >> suggest that this may be the only ROM. > >IIRC, a real Apple ][ has up to 64K RAM (48K on the mainboard, 16K on a >language card) and some ROMs. The ROMs are bank-switched with the top 16K >(Language card) RAM. That's correct. There are also two language cards, one just has 16k to replace the ROM's, and one has more memory which can be bank switched into the 16k ROM address space. >It sounds like you effectively have a built-in language card (that would >be quite sensible), and you have RAM in place of the ROM (possibly to get >round Apple copyrights). The 5517 RAMs take the place of ROMs -- they're >loaded once on boot-up, and then contain the resident BASIC, etc. The >EPROM you have sounds like a bootloader for these RAMs. Thats exactly what I am thinking. Still trying to figure it out - never gets as far as trying to read the disk - does chip select the ROM and appear to read some code from it, but does not make it much further. Btw, do you (or anyone) have the pinout for 4564 DRAM's? I'm wondering if they are in backwards (as noted previously, someone "worked" on this unit) - 16 pins, showing +5 on pin 8 and Gnd on pin 16 - backward to most chips, although I do recall there were some memory chips with odd power... Lack of working main RAM would explain it's behavour. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 11 months

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odd hex width unibus card - Konelar corp?

by brad＠heeltoe.com

Hi, Does anyone have any information on a "kxmu extended memory" unibus card >from Konelar corp? (of Bedford Ma, no less). Looks like some sort of banked memory, but google doesn't return anything. -brad

21 years, 11 months

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Upgrading a BA11-N for Q22 addressing

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jul 17, 22:47, Robert Armstrong wrote: > > Is there a description anywhere of the backplane changes that need to > be made to upgrade a BA11-N (H9273 backplane) for 22 bit addressing? All you need to do is take 4 lengths of wire-wrap wire (or something similar) and join together all the pins that connect to the BC1 fingers, all the BD1, all the BE1, and all the BF1. If you can view (or print) PostScript files there's a diagram showing the finger layout at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/PDP-11/ QBusConns.ps is actual size, QBusConnsBig.ps is somewhat larger. I expect there are text lists of the signals/fingers around the web too. If you plan to use a processor with PMI memory you might also want to link AF1 on the first (top) slot to AF1 on the slot (or two slots) immediately below. That's the SRUN connection; without it the RUN LED won't light. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 11 months

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Upgrading a BA11-N for Q22 addressing

by bob＠jfcl.com

Is there a description anywhere of the backplane changes that need to be made to upgrade a BA11-N (H9273 backplane) for 22 bit addressing? Thanks, Bob Armstrong

21 years, 11 months

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Connecting a FPF11 to a 11/23+ (Dumb Questions)

by bob＠jfcl.com

I just got my hands on an FPF11 board, and naturally I want to connect it to my 11/23+ right away! I understand that the 40 pin header on the card edge connects to a 40 pin DIP plug that goes into one of the microcode option sockets on the 11/23+. Dumb question #1 - is it conventional to install the FPF11 in the slot immediately below the CPU, thus displacing all the memory boards down a slot? Or does the FPF11 go in the first Q/Q slot (slot 4) ? Or does it even matter? Dumb question #2 - the handbook says, "[the FPF11] ... complements the KEF11-AA". Does this mean that the FIS option chip must _also_ be installed in the 11/23+? Or must it _not_ be installed? Dumb question #3 - does it matter which one of the microcode option sockets you plug the FPF11 into? And... #4 - how do you know if the thing's working? Short of having the diagnostics for it, of course, which I don't. Thanks, Bob Armstrong

21 years, 11 months

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Help with Apple2 clone "Orange Peel"

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

Hi, I am trying to resurrect a dead Apple2 clone for a friend. This machine is called "Orange Peel", and is packaged as a small rectangular box with three slots accessable on one end by sliding back the top, and a separate keyboard. I believe the machine is running, at least it clears video memory to zero (familier '@' pattern) on powerup, but goes no further - the ROM/RAM configuration seems odd: The main board contains 8 4564 DRAM's along with video and I/O circuitry etc. The CPU lives on a separate board which is suspended above the mainboard on long, hard-to-insert pins. The CPU board has 7 sockets. At one end is a single 2716 EPROM chip labled "New boot", near the other end of the line is a label on the board which reads "2kb/2716" - this suggests that the whole line should be ROM's (which would be consistant with other apples), however the remaining sockets contain 5517 CMOS RAM's !!! - clearly there is no other code on this board. Inside the "New Boot" ROM, the only strings I can see are: FBPASIC OR INTBASIC FILE REQUIRED INSERT APPLICATION DISC AND PRESS ESC This suggests that it loads basic from disk and would not have it in ROM. So - I have a bit of a paradox : the "2kb/2716" label suggests ROM's, and the 64k of RAM on the mainboard also indicates that all the RAM is on the lower board, however the ROM strings suggest that this may be the only ROM. Perhaps it loads code from the disk into "Pseudo-ROM" 5517 bank? (If so, anyone got the disk code)? The fact that several of the riser pins were not inserted and bent under the CPU board indicates that someone with low skills "worked" on this system at one point. The fact that the attached power cord was cut off indicates that it was given up on ... so I cannot assume that it is configured correctly. Is anyone familier with this system? Can anyone tell me if the CPU board accepts RAM or if it should be ROM? If so, does anyone have the proper code? If it loads the RAM's from disk, does anyone have the disk? Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 11 months

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Apple IIe ROM

by kenziem＠sympatico.ca

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Tested a bunch of Apple II machines (and clones ) today and found 2 with a funny ROM 8409 G C19746 341-0168-A Apple 83 the start screen is APPLE with two linked S's and a degree symbol Also a Orange peel but it all it produced was a screen of @ The IBM PC3270 booted up with DOS3.1 The IBM 5150's booted to basic All in all a good day of testing and I cleared off a shelf! - -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA9xNpLPrIaE/xBZARAvQIAJ9ogFummagjS2SqXlOkhFbW2rkveQCeKrbe fhJf/NYyyxUTGeGMXsWcF5M= =4Vgq -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

21 years, 11 months

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VCF East 2.0, Day one.

by aek＠spies.com

> There is a version of Spacewar for the PDP-11 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 03:19:40 +0000 (UTC) Organization: The World : www.TheWorld.com : Since 1989 Lines: 21 Message-ID: <b3p8sc$mns$1(a)pcls4.std.com> References: <3e601025$0$27765$afc38c87(a)news.optusnet.com.au> <b3p63f$q5f$1(a)news.utelfla.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell01.theworld.com X-Trace: pcls4.std.com 1046488780 23292 199.172.62.241 (1 Mar 2003 03:19:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse(a)TheWorld.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 03:19:40 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: nn/6.6.5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.linkpendium.com!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!west.cox.net!cox.net!newshosting.com!news-xfer2.atl.newshosting.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!nntp.TheWorld.com!mbg Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:130595 "Geoffrey G. Rochat" <777geoff777(a)777pkworks777.777com777> writes: >a DCC-16, which was a Nova clone. And although I've never seen one in >action, I've no doubt SpaceWar was very popular on the PDP-11/05-based GT05. I have a friend who wrote a spacewar for the *GT40* which we also played on a GT42. I still have the code and the original control boxes we built for it (wired directly to a parallel I/O board, A DR11, if I remember correctly). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer

21 years, 11 months

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Atari TT030 (or ST?) joystick?

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Hi all, Anyone know if I can use a joystick on the Atari TT030? If so, what type, which port does it use etc. (and does anyone have the relevant port pinouts so I can wire up an adapter? I don't have an Atari-specific joystick, but I do have ones from various other machines kicking around) Given the ST compatibility, I assume it can be done... cheers Jules

21 years, 11 months

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HP 9915A

by rhahm＠nycap.rr.com

I recently aquired an HP 9915A computer/calculator which is the industrial version of the HP85. Does anyone have the owner's manual for this. If any one has the keyboard and would like to sell it or trade for it email me. Also anyone has any series 80 software they want to trade email me. Thanks RH

21 years, 11 months

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FYI: Office Depot to recycle old PCs...

by bpope＠wordstock.com

http://www.cnn.com/money/2004/07/13/news/fortune500/recycle_pc/index.htm Cheers, Bryan Pope

21 years, 11 months

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Early timesharing/BBS systems

by aek＠spies.com

This is an area I'm working on in trying to bring some of these systems back to life through simulation. MIT had a timeharing PDP-1 system, as well as CTSS on a modified 7090 in the early 60's. BBN also had timesharing on a PDP-1. CTSS's replacement was Multics. UC Berkeley modified an SDS 930 to add memory protection and developed the GENIE timesharing system in the mid 60's. SDS sold the 940, as the modified 930 was called with modified versions of the GENIE software. The most well known 940 systems were at SRI (which eventually was sold to the folks who did the Community Memory Project), BBN, and Tymshare. Tymshare migrated from their 940s to DEC10's in the 70's. The people who did the 940 at UCB started Berkeley Computer Corporation and produced one prototype of their BCC500 system, which was moved to the University of Hawaii after BCC folded, and many of the people formed the core of the computer group at PARC. Dartmouth produced their BASIC timesharing system in the mid 60's, about the same time as GENIE. IBM produced TSS-360, the less said about that, the better.. DEC timesharing monitors for the PDP-6 evolved into the timesharing monitor on the PDP-10, which later became TOPS-10. BBN's TENEX operating system for the PDP-10 later became TOPS-20. Smallish timesharing systems were also produced which included TSS/8 for the PDP-8, which was inspired by a phd thesis Gordon Bell supervised at CMU, which sort of evolved into RSTS (originally called EDUSYSTEM 100) and RSTS/E.

21 years, 11 months

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Intel Data Catalog

by gmanbc2000＠yahoo.com

Hey I seen your exchange of emails with GM Phillips on these catalogs. Do you have any of them for sell? I too am looking for them but I don't have near the collection of George Phillips. Lee

21 years, 11 months

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OT: Startrek appartment

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jul 16, 16:30, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Fri, 16 Jul 2004, Ed wrote: > > > > A bit hefty pricetag, but have a look at this auction. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2397756436 > Ed, you're scaring me, and you know I'm not easily scared... Me too -- Ed's going to be visiting here a couple of days after the auction ends :-) Ed, you know that apartment is on your route to here, only a couple of hours away? Odd that it's a UK auction but priced in US$, though. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 11 months

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Free shipping on SBC6120/PDP-8 Kits for VCF weekend!

by bob＠jfcl.com

Guys, In case you haven't heard, this weekend VCF/East will be held in Boston for the 2nd year. If you live in the area and have the chance to go, I recommend it! http://vintage.org/2004/east/ Spare Time Gizmos will be there with our "Build your own PDP-8 from a kit!" kit, the SBC6120 http://sbc6120.SpareTimeGizmos.com and in honor of VCF/East we'll be giving free shipping to anybody, anywhere in the world, who orders any SBC6120 parts or kits this weekend. Just place your order thru our online store, http://store.SpareTimeGizmos.com anytime this weekend and pay via PayPal and you won't be charged for shipping. Bob Armstrong

21 years, 11 months

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FS - Motorola MVME 761-001

by marvin＠rain.org

Still getting rid of *small* stuff :) I can easily ship. This 1996 MVME 761-001 module is untested with condition unknown. $15.00 including USPS Priority Mail w/ delivery confirmation shipping in the US. International shipping will be higher.

21 years, 11 months

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Mitsubishi Monitor

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jul 16, 9:46, Jules Richardson wrote: > For something like that I'd probably cut a round hole in the plastic, > but cut / file a hole with the right key into a strip of aluminium and > mount it directly behind the hole in the plastic. The plastic can be > kept nice and neat that way, whilst it doesn't matter if the aluminium > hole looks a bit shabby. The connector flange will hide any rough edges so that just makes twice as much work. > That or make a little recess in the underside of the plastic near to the > hole, and use a piece of u-shaped metal to stop the connector rotating One way I've seen is to drill a round hole, then file one "side" of it out into a square. Then put a washer on the back of the BNC, but bent over so that it fits the flat on the BNC and also fits the squared-out part of the hole. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 11 months

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OT: Startrek appartment

by ed＠groenenberg.net

A bit hefty pricetag, but have a look at this auction. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2397756436 and no, I'm not affiliated to the seller.....

21 years, 11 months

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Sol-20 & Helios on E-Bay

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

Processor Technology 1978 stuff on E-Bay, SOL-20 and two Helios II's: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5109086247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5109095872 [disclaimer, I am the seller, so this falls into the "shameless plug" category]

21 years, 11 months

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Monitor deflection magnets; what to do when one falls out & breaks?

by brad＠heeltoe.com

Hi, I have an old B&W "specialty" monitor which recently stopped working. In the process of moving it around (to/from repair place) I noticed a little black "tube magnet" dropping out when I took the cover off. At the time I didn't think much of it (those in the know can chuckle now). So, after a bout of replacing bad caps with no luck, I eventually broke down and replaced the deflection board and the monitor sprang to life. Much joy. (note: "specialty" = designed for a specific computer with a special ECL video connection and has no standard connector or interface. and no schematics) So, monitor is working. I proceed to adjust the H & V size, linearity, etc... I notice that the bottom and sides will square up nicely but the top edge has a large "dip" in the middle. No amount of trimmer fiddling will fix this. light goes off. "found" tube magnet is part of yoke assembly. So, I notice where the missing magnet came from. Naturally it's on the top side of the yoke assembly. But - the "tube" has broken into 3 pieces (it was broke when I found it. honest). I carefully glued it back together (no glue in the joints, however) and replaced it. This helped a little but did not cure the problem. [note to reader: I never took that fields course. I know nothing of magnets.] So, - is a broken magnet pushed back together not as good as a whole magnet? (strength wise) - can I get a new magnet somewhere? - is there anything special about these magnets? - do normal monitor repair guys just have a box of these laying around? - does this sort of thing happen all the time? -brad

21 years, 11 months

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simh and rt11 primer.

by eric＠redrouteone.net

I was using boot rl0. That is what I get for doing things when I am tired. I did not use PUTR to create the disk file just at. That is likely the source of my problem. This should get me a ways down the road. Eric

21 years, 11 months

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Anybody want to get together at VCF East?

by wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net

I'm there, at the Marriott. Email me directly if you want to get together for dinner or something. Also, any exhibitors know what we're supposed to do tomorrow? Bill S.

21 years, 11 months

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Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jul 15, 13:39, David Betz wrote: > > Thanks for your suggestions! > > On Jul 15, 2004, at 1:03 PM, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > B/R5:10000000 DKA400: > > > > (that's 1 followed by 7 zeroes). > > > > I tried this and ultimately got the same "DKA400: is offline" message. > I guess it doesn't like this CD-ROM drive either. This is the last one > I have to try. Maybe I can find someone with one at VCF East tomorrow. I've not tried to boot a VAXstation 4000 from CD-ROM, but I've had no problem with lots of other classic machines using older Toshiba drives. Almost all modern (newer than about mid-90s) drives understand the SCSI command to set the blocksize to 512 bytes in software, but older machines don't know to do that. I keep a couple of Toshibas just for that reason; XM3201, XM3301 and XM3401 at least have a couple of pairs of half-moon solder pads, near the SCSI connector, normally linked for 2048-byte blocks, but you can cut the tracks between one or both to set 512-byte blocks. The three different 512-byte settings are supposed to be for Sun, SGI, and Intergraph, but I've never noticed much difference. OTOH, I have a couple of Hitachis and an NEC which can be set to 512-byte blocks, and they don't work too well (the Hitachis in particular are very slow and generate lots of errors), so apparently not all CD-ROM drives are created equal. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 11 months

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simh and rt11 primer.

by eric＠redrouteone.net

Hello, I have wanted a PDP11 for years but currently do not have the space for one so I have decided to do the next best thing use simh. I have downloaded simh and the rt11 disk image but I am kind of stuck on where to go. Does anyone know of any sites or documents available online that cover configuration of simh and the installation and use of rt11. I have done some messing around and have managed to boot the rt11 image by using the commands at rl0 rtv53_rl.dsk at rl1 eric_pdp11_rt11.dsk <- This is a file that I intend to do my install to. Is that wrong? Boot rl1. I choose the automatic option but then it wants me to mount a disk in dl1 so that it can backup the media. I try to attach dl1 but I get an error non existent device. If try to create the disk during the install the install just errors out and dies. Any help with this will be most appreciated. Eric

21 years, 11 months

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Another good day at the auction and Free Stuff

by tponsford＠theriver.com

Hi All, Another great day at the auction. My $30 bought me: 5-Dec Alpha 4/233's 2-Dec MVII's all filled with qbus cards, no scsi (this time) but a almost brand new RD54!! in one. 1 5' computer rack and a HP 9000/300 complete with: -7959 S SCSI controller and disk - 98730 S 32bit Davinci Graphics subsystem -most of the cables, etc The 9000 was given to me by a guy who won the lot it came in but only wanted the peecee stuff. If anybody wants to give it a good home it's yours for the taking; It's on a rolling rack and is about the same size as the MVII's Cheers Tom -- --- Please do not read this sig. If you have read this far, please unread back to the beginning.

21 years, 11 months

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Monitor deflection magnets; what to do when one falls out & breaks?

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Hi It should be noted that when broken, these cheap magnets will lose some of their magnetism that can not be recovered by simply gluing the piece together. As was mentioned, finding others on scrap units is the easiest. Positioning these is an art. They never seem to do what one expects so take your time at locating the best location and orientation. It most likely will not be the same as it was originally. Watch out for the anode lead and wear eye protection, any time you are working on he monitor with the cover off. Dwight >From: "John Lawson" <jpl15(a)panix.com> > > > These are cylindrical, low-gauss ferrite magnets called 'trimming >magnets' or 'pincushion magnets'. A lot of cheaper CRT devices use 'em to >tweak the display. They're a pain in the butt, especially the ones near >the front of the CRT that gradually get demagnetized with each power-on >degauss cycle. > > They are sometimes available at larger 'real' hardware stores (in the >US) like True Value, etc. > > Or, as was wisely suggested, cannibalize them from another junk tube. > > > Chees > > >John > > > >

21 years, 11 months

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Monitor deflection magnets; what to do when one falls out & breaks?

by melamy＠earthlink.net

these are indeed magnets and were usually the dirt cheap variety. They were set in place at the factory to "trim" the beam to overcome mechanical deviations in the gun and deflection assemblies internal to the crt. They were not all that powerful. The best source of replacement would be another old monitor that you can take the magnets out of. best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- From: Brad Parker <brad(a)heeltoe.com> Sent: Jul 15, 2004 11:54 AM To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Monitor deflection magnets; what to do when one falls out & breaks? Paul Koning wrote: > >It's probably not a magnet, but rather a ferrite core. You'd know the >difference putting the pieces together -- if you feel no attraction or >repulsion, it's not a permanent magnet. Interesting. The pieces do attract. Are ferrite cores magnetic? (I would think a ferrite core would have wires wrapped around it) These magnets are not connected to the wired internal yoke assembly - they are glued to a "collar" which is close to the back of the tube. The collar is round but the magnets are glued to make a square - I assume this helps make the image square. (or not :-) The magnets on the two sides are symmetric as are the top and bottom. Both top and sides have two "tube magnets" but ared spaced slightly differently. The sides have two magnets side by side with no gap. The top and bottom have two magnets side by side with a a 1/4" gap. I can see where the glue was holding the magnet. That's where I put it back. I assume the poles should be aligned, i.e. the poles of the two magnets should be the same, producing a larger overall field (I presume) >As for the problem, I wonder if the issue is that the core is in the >wrong spot. It's part of the deflection magnetics assembly, and if >it's misplaced then you'd certainly get problems like you describe. >Take a look at the corresponding piece at the bottom of the yoke. I >would expect things to be symmetric. The fact that the thing fell out >suggests that it may have been out of position, and when you pushed it >back in you may not have gotten it back where it actually belongs. Well, it fell out onto the floor when I took the enclosure off :-) -brad

21 years, 11 months

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Old software files needed

by classiccmp＠vintage-computer.com

I got this via email today: ---[ Snip ]--- For a magazine review of a file-viewing program, I?m trying to find data files in a variety of old formats that would be used in testing. Would you have any you could send or know someone who would have such files? I?m interested in files from word processor, spreadsheet, database, presentation, and graphics programs. The data files I?m looking for include those from programs such as WordStar, DisplayWrite, Enable, PFS:Write, MultiMate, dBase, FoxBase, Paradox, Lotus 1-2-3, Quattro Pro, Freelance, Harvard Graphics, and the like. Thanks for your help. Gary Berline ---[ Snip ]--- Please contact Gary directly at Gary_BerlineNOSPAM(a)NOSPAMziffdavis.com - removing the obvious. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum

21 years, 11 months

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East German arcade game

by transit＠lerctr.org

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/features/polyplay.shtml The Poly Play videogame was Eastern Bloc's answer to the capitalist's Pac Man but resembles something more like on old-fashioned TV set in a tall wooden cabinet. Nevertheless, with up to eight games, a simple firing button and 8-way joystick, and a slot to take tokens rather than coins, the Poly Play is, in fact, less grim than it sounds. Simon Webb, the curator of Swindon's Museum of Computing told BBC Wiltshire, "The story goes that this was the only arcade approved machine to be produced in East Germany and they used to go into places like municipal swimming pool and leisure centres. "When the Berlin Wall came down, for some strange reason they recalled the machines to the factory and had them dismantled. A few were salvaged. There were probably about 1000-1500 made."

21 years, 11 months

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motherboards

by BUFFYBRON＠aol.com

Hi Chris I am after 386 and 486 motherboards, please advise if you will ship to the UK if I pay the costs etc. Brgds Steve.

21 years, 11 months

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VCF and lisp machines

by brad＠heeltoe.com

Hi All If anyone going to VCF and is interested in Symbolics workstations or any type of Lisp Machine (like CADR's), and would like to get together and talk about them, let me know (via email). I should probably have put together a talk about my explorations tracking down old lispm's and emulating lisp machine microcode - maybe for next year. I'll certainly be there, floating around looking for (more) unibus hardware and I'll be at the Atari 7800 talk. -brad Brad Parker

21 years, 11 months

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Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM

by dbetz＠xlisper.mv.com

I have my VAXstation 4000 VLC running to the ">>>" prompt and would like to boot the hobbyist CD-ROM to install VMS on the hard drive but I'm having trouble getting the CD-ROM to boot. If I type 'boot dka400' at the prompt, the CD-ROM spins up and I get the text "-DKA400" displayed on the console but then I get the ">>>" prompt again. Can anyone tell me why that would happen? I'm using a NEC CDR-1910A SCSI CD-ROM drive set to SCSI ID 4.

21 years, 11 months

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Fw: Mitsubishi Monitor

by geoffreythomas＠onetel.net.uk

For some reason my original post got corrupted - try again. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey Thomas" <geoffreythomas(a)onetel.net.uk> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 10:32 AM Subject: Re: Mitsubishi Monitor > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com> > To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 10:04 AM > Subject: Re: Mitsubishi Monitor > > > > I'm still trying to find a way to make a hole in a plastic panel to mount > a > > BNC properly. I failed miserably on the frequency counter I made - the BNC > > connector spins while you're trying to plug a probe in. Oops. > > Usually there's a flat section on the BNC socket , I usually drill a smaller > hole and then file out to suit - especially easy in plastic. Otherwise look > for a purpose made chassis cutter for BNC connectors - could be pricey. > > > > Later. > > -- > > Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, > 6GB, > > philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, > 2-slice, > > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI > > ... DANGER! DANGER! Computer Store Ahead, Hide Wallet. >

21 years, 11 months

1
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OT dsl

by dan_williams＠ntlworld.com

I have been looking at bulldogdsl they have a 4 meg line with 400k up for 30 pounds a month. Has anyone hear used this or know anyone that does. I was wondering about reliability this is less then I pay ntl for a 1mb line. They also have 8 fixed ip's for an extra 9 a month. It seems too cheap to me. Thanks Dan

21 years, 11 months

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