- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by depfoto＠earthlink.net

To whom it may concern, I was searching google.com for information relating to my old Heathkit 8401 and stumbled upon your message from almost a year ago. Do you still need to contact someone that owns this device? If so, feel free to drop me a return e-mail.

21 years, 7 months

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Quotations From Chairman Morrow

by vcf＠siconic.com

I located and transcribed a copy of "Quotations from Chairman Morrow", a collection of things that George Morrow of Morrow Designs said over the years he was in the computer business, for Fred. Morrow died earlier this year of cancer. He had been out of computers entirely and was into collecting LPs. He was a good guy. I'm posting this here because there are some gems in there, and some stuff is still relevant. It's also an interesting take on the 1980s microcomputer business. This text is hard to find, so posting it here will make it easier to find for people and hopefully preserve it. I typed it in basically as it was typeset. Numbers preceding each section are actual page numbers in the original booklet. I'm pretty sure I got all the typos, but if you find one please let me know. Enjoy! COMPUTER USERS OF THE WORLD UNITE! QUOTATIONS FROM CHAIRMAN MORROW MORROW DESIGNS PRESS, SAN LEANDRO, CALIFORNIA First Edition: November 1984 Copyright (C) 1984 by Morrow Designs Inc. All rights reserved. No part of this publication can be reproduced without prior written permission of Morrow Designs Inc. Individual quotations can be used at any time with standard attribution. Quotations By GEORGE MORROW Introduction By JOHN C. DVORAK (Portrait of George Morrow) Introduction Morrow: Mayo to Mao It started when George Morrow was a young fry-cook. He had a spoonful of mayonnaise in one hand and a piece of bread in the other. "Hey, I can't do this all my life. Besides the fact that I can't tell good food from bad, this job is boring. I'm going to be an engineer," he thought to himself. So young George pursued the life of an intellectual. For awhile he took engineering, but he figured that to fully understand engineering he needed to know physics. He changed his major to physics. Soon he figured that to fully understand physics he needed to know mathematics. He changed his major to math. Just as he was about to get his PhD in math, he figured that to fully understand mathematics he needed to know philosophy. So he quit and went to work in the semiconductor business. "Otherwise, I would have never gotten out of school," he recalls. Working for William Shockley gave George more insight into philosophy than any college curriculum. It must have. George Morrow has become the top philosopher in microcomputerdom. If you're in the newspaper business, George is the guy to call when you need a quote. Some time back, Adam Osborne was the most quotable, with guys like Seymour Rubinstein and a few others occasionally coming up with a zinger or two. But over the years, Morrow has outdistanced them all. Enough to fill a book--a little red book. I recommend you take this little red book and hunt down George and make him autograph it. It's an obvious collector's item, and it will probably be worth a fortune someday. When you corner George for the autograph ask him about his sugar to gross national product theory. He's convinced there's a direct relationship between sugar consumption and gross national product. George is a little embarrassed by this book, I'm told (by George himself). His public relations firm in cahoots with the staff made him agree to it. You see, George is an interesting guy and these quotes are great, but George thinks it detracts from the great equipment that the company manufactures. You know, takes away from the seriousness of it all. Then again, maybe George feels obliged to be humble. After all, how many little red books are there in history? None as good as this one. John C. Dvorak Berkeley, California October 10, 1984 Contents SOFTWARE 1 PROOGRAMMERS 5 THE INDUSTRY 9 COMPUTER DESIGN 21 BUYING COMPUTERS 27 SELLING COMPUTERS 33 CREATIVITY 41 BUSINESS/FINANCE 49 MISCELLANEOUS 55 1 Software 2 Hardware is just a pernicious little thing required to allow software to solve the application problem. Good software is software that succeeds without having to work hard in the marketplace. 'Self-teaching software' is an oxymoron--like 'military intelligence' and 'postal service.' The only industrial costs software companies have is the printing of serial numbers. What drives the prices so high is thievery. 3 Instruction sets have eternal life; once created, they never disappear. So a programmable instruction set is critical to the health of the industry. The user world would be better served if it could run software without hardware. The floppy disk and its incorporation into microcomputers has been responsible for all the software innovation that's taken place in the last five years. 4 The formula for a successful software product: It has to be technically excellent but user-hostile; that way all the consultants and software cognoscenti can write about it and feel they're making a contribution. Without the proper software, computers make very good bookends. 5 Programmers 6 Programmers are like rock stars. But with rock stars, at least you get to hear the song before you buy the record. A programmer spends six months tuning his instrument and, whether it works or not, you're paying the whole time. There's been no real change in progrmammer productivity since compilers were developed in the 1950s. Software hasn't kept up with hardware in terms of productivity improvement. 7 The key to increasing programmer productivity is universal software that runs in a wide variety of hardware environments. This will keep the programmer from having to re-invent the wheel every time a new piece of hardware comes along. Ninety percent of the software gets written in 10 percent of the time. The next 9.5 percent takes 90 percent of the time. The last one-half percent never gets done. But the software still gets solds. 8 A good programmer can only write about 250 lines of code a day. Programming speed is a universal constant. Something like the speed of light, but a lot slower. Programmers stand on the toes of those who came before them. Anyone who trusts a programmer deserves what happens to him. 9 The Industry 10 Computer companies are like desert flowers--they bloom overnight and they're gone. Manufacturers have a responsibility to ther customers to promote the use of standards. That's the only way to bring volumes up and costs down. It is the user's responsibility to promote standards. Companies that try to set their own standards should not be rewarded by getting the users' dollars. 11 'Immediate delivery' means 'we have working prototypes.' Products should die a graceful death and move on. Hanging on is a disservice to the marketplace. Adam Osborne was initially successful not because he introduced portability, but because he provided utility through bundled software. To be successful, a product must satisfy a need in the market by providing utility where there was none before. 12 Being in the microcomputer business is like going 55 miles an hour three feet from a cliff. If you make the wrong turn you're bankrupt so fast you don't know what hit you. But if you make the right turn you're on a rocket with people throwing money at you. As long as product technology is changing the Japanese can't get into the market. But let the technology settle down into a well-defined market and God help you if you're an American manufacturer getting into it today because you're going to get run over flat. Just look at what happened with 5-1/4 inch floppy drives. 13 If you want to get into the marketplace with IBM it's kind of like going to a movie--a beautifully attractive movie that you can really get into. They put you in this nice chair and say 'please sit down and be comfortable.' You're probably a little bit nervious when you first go in, but the service is so great, the surroundings are so great, the drugs are so great, you think, why not relax and enjoy it. Meanwhile, what's going on up above you is that thuis huge weight is slowly being positioned and there's a guy calling down, 'How heavy do we need to make it? We want to make sure when we drop it he's totally flat and there's no way for him to crawl out from underneath. Are you over him now? He's comfortable? 14 He's not going to jump? He's unconscious? Okay.' Kachunk. And if you don't believe that, all you have to do is look at Memorex. Or Storage Technology. Apple created a problem for the industry by attracting the attention of companies like IBM and Radio Shack. Before Apple became big and successful, the big companies sneered and held their noses whenever the word 'microcomputer' was mentioned. 15 IBM came into the personal computer market when Apple threatened their base--when they saw Apple start selling into business, into the corporate environment, especially to run VisiCalc. If Commodore had done what Chuck Peddle put it in a position to do, there would be no such thing as Apple today. There'd be no such thing as Radio Shack. Commodore would completely own the market. 16 Three major factors made the personal computer happen. One was the microprocessor -- taking the power of a computer and putting it on a piece of silicon. The others were cheap semiconductor memory and cheap mass memory -- floppy disks. Not much has happened since then. Microprocessors and semiconductor memory have just gotten bigger. 17 The microcomputer market started because there was a pent-up demand for computers. The first users were willing to do virtually anything to have a computer around--put together kits, form clubs. Next came a slightly less technical group, which still was willing to do a lot of programming to make their computers breathe. And then, instead of moving to the home, as many of us thought, the market moved into small business. 18 In the early days of the microcomputer industry, you came up with a product concept, took out an ad, got some money from orders, began to develop the product, did some more advertising. If you where really lucky, you could ship the product before people realized it had just been a figment of your imagination when you first talked about it. Today the microcomputer industry is like the fashion industry; products are only good for seven or eight months. If skirts are going up, you can always re-hem. If they're going the other way, you've got the wrong product. 19 The problem with the semiconductor industry is that theit vision is very short. In bad times they'd fire whole departments to cut costs. So engineers developed a loyalty not to individual companies, but to the industry. Once the Japanese start building your product for you, they don't know how to stop. If the market changes, you're stuck with a huge inventory. A consultant is someone who's called in when someone has painted himself into a corner. He's expected to levitate his client out of that corner. 20 Market research is a major area of abuse. It is responsible for the overcrowded Winchester disk drive market. Early market researchers called up all the companies making Winchsesters and asked them their assessment of the market; then they published a report and sent it back to the vendors. The conservative ones saw from the report that they'd underestimated the market. So the next time the researchers called them, they inflated the numbers. It finally dawned on them that they were buying their own garbage. I believe in standards. Everyone should have one. 21 Computer Design 22 The computer's hardware is its body. The software is its soul. In the early days of the personal computer industry, hardware and software were completely separate disciplines, both emotionally and technically. One didn't mix the two. You did something either in hardware or in software. Sixteen-bit machines are important because of their technological sizzle; eight-bit systems are important because you can build them cheap. 23 Sixteen bits for the sake of 16 bits is an engineer's approach to products. There's an unwritten rule in the computer industry that says each new product must have special bells and whistles to spark the customer's interest. This has kept costs high and made the buyer pay for benefits of questionable value. Customers in the low-end segment of the market have been victimized by vendors who concentrate on product differentiation for its own sake instead of on what those customers really need. 24 The engineer who gets carried away with bells and whistles should be required to spend time in the customer service department--then he can see what it's like to support those additional features he's dreamed up. The formula for a successful hardware product: take a technology that can't fail but that is too immature for a big company like IBM to be comfortable with, and run with it. Using liquid crystal displays on portable computers is a current example. Tooling is an opportunity to waste money. 25 One of the great mysteries of life is how the printer and computer get hooked together. Mediocrity or adequacy is all most people need in a computer. Successful products are simple products. If George Lucas designed a lunch pail for Darth Vader, it would look like a Kaypro. 26 27 Buying Computers 28 The most important thing in buying computer hardware is to buy as little as possible. The less you buy at a given time, the more you'll be informed about what to do next. Small computers let you computerize in small clumps. You find out right away what will work and what won't. If it doesn't work you've wasted $2,500; that's better than spending $50,000 and wasting the time of a whole department. 29 Always use the 6-18 month rule in buying a computer. It takes about six months to bring a user up to speed on a new machine, so the system can't be expected to pay for itself before that. On the other hand, if it hasn't paid for itself in 18 months, it shouldn't have been purchased in the first place. Technology is changing so rapidly that a user should consider his needs only as far as 18 months down the road. Then he can upgrade, taking advantage of the knowledge he's gained by experimenting with his first system. Short-sightedness is a virtue when it comes to choosing a computer system. Know what you need now--not two years from now. 30 A user should need at least two applications before he purchases a computer. Every small business in this country needs at least two computers. Choose your hardware only after you've chosen your software; the complexity of the software will determine the appropriate hardware. The more exotic a user's software needs, the more expensive the hardware will be. 31 The user's only interest in a CPU should be whether or not his software will run on it. Memory and peripherals, however, are much more important because they determine how much you can do and how fast you can do it. People who call systems user-friendly don't know what the first-time user thinks about. You never know what to spend on a computer until after you've spent it. 32 About 35 percent of the people who buy computers don't need them. They're potentially unhappy users who'll spread bad news about computers. If you're spending your own money on a computer, shop arouund for the best value. If you're spending your company's money, buy IBM; that's the safe route. 33 Selling Computers 34 Bundling software with hardware lets the customer 'test-drive' the computer so he knows how it'll work before he buys. That means security. Computer distribution channels are not well. Sixty percent of their business has gone away and it's not coming back. Today the government and big corporations are buying direct from the IBMs, Sperrys, the Burroughs, the ITTs. 35 There's a difference between computer dealers and office equipment dealers... At COMDEX (Computer Dealers Exposition) you introduce a product and computer dealers will attack you...they're turned on by technology. At NOMDA (National Office Machines Dealers Assn.) the guy strolling by looks at the booth and says "Ah, computers...we'll have to get into that some day." Office supply dealers should become more venturesome, computer dealers more cautious. 36 Computers should be made affordable to the mass market. Computer makers should first decide what prices will make this possible, then find ways to build computers that can be sold for those prices. In the old days, our customers were as technically competent as we were, or more so. They bought from us because they had an emotional need to have a computer. Today's customers are less technically aware. They buy machines because they think they can do something practical with them. We have to show them it's worth the price. 37 We're not selling toothpaste or bubble gum or soft drinks, in which there's no difference in the basic product from one year to another except packaging. We're selling technology, and there's a difference. Look at Detroit. In the early days, the auto industry was run by engineers and technical types. It was only later, to squeeze every last dollar out of profit, that they brought in the bean-counters. And as soon as they did that, Japan came in, and there wasn't anything left. 38 Not everybody needs a computer. If a dealer sells one of my computers to the wrong person, my reputation and the dealer's are on the line. Only two groups benefit--the phone company and United Parcel Service. All the computers that have been sold so far have been sold to people who knew they wanted computers. That market is saturated. The real test will be our ability to sell to people who have never had a burning desire to own a computer because they didn't know what they could use it for. 39 Adam Osborne was the first hardware manufacturer to recognize what bundling software could do for the user. I watched what he did and figured that if a little software was good, a lot would be even better. With bundled machines you can throw away the hardware and keep the software, and it's still a good buy. 40 41 Creativity 42 The most valuable thing you can make is a mistake--you can't learn anything from being perfect. Children have an easier time learning about computers than adults because they're not afraid to make mistakes. Children are used to making mstakes all day long and getting yelled at for it. So they're more willing to experiment with something that might intimidate them. Adults can't experiment because they won't risk mistakes. The computer is simply a device to amplify mental powers. It provides leverage for your mind. 43 A technologically reckless person is one who knows just enough technology to be dangerous but not enough to be cautious. You're not trying hard enough if you don't fail sometimes. You can only tell if you're breaking ground if you're stubbing your toes. Engineers add parts to machines to solve problems; I take parts out of machines to solve problems. The people who make money in this industry are the ones who engineer a product and get others to build the parts. 44 I listen to the marketplace better than anyone else, and I don't mind borrowing. Never do anything yourself if someone else can do it better. The stabilization of markets encourages big business; upheaval and innovation encourage small business. For my father's generation, work was not supposed to be pleasant. For me, work is the greatest pleasure. I'm not a workaholic, I'm a work enthusiast. The most potent drug of all is being on a "hot" project. 45 The most successful company isn't the first one with a good idea. It's amazing how smart you can be if you're second and do your homework. My first microcomputer was an attempt to understand Osborne's success. When a company gets bigger, it can't afford to be adventurous. If it gets into high volumes, it has to stick with established technology, take what it knows works. 46 Most of us in the early days had entrepreneur's sickness--we wouldn't do anything that would dilute our control of our companies. Steve Jobs of Apple was the only one smart enough to see that he had to give away parts of his company to get the most talented people. You can still have ideas, develop products, without being entrepreneurial. Entrepreneurial just means you gamble a lot. Apple hasn't been entrepreneurial for some time and neither has H-P. 47 Being a successful entrepreneur means being able to do it more than once. If you can't repeat your success, you probably were just lucky the first time. 48 49 Business/Finance 50 Venture capitalists are like lemmings jumping on the software bandwagon. Japanese accounts payable are like heroin; they get you hooked with 120-day payment plans. The best way to keep the competition out is to price low; if there's too much fat in the profit, someone else will come in under you. I'm happy with 10 percent after-tax profits. After 15 percent I rebel; that's rape. 51 The Morrow theory of finance: When you're a little guy operating out of a garage, you have to pay all your own bills. But when you get more successful, you get a line of credit, and the bank starts paying your bills. Then you get a little more successful, and the bank won't pay anymore, so you pay your bills slowly--30, 60, 120 days late--and now your vendors are paying your bills. Now you're even more successful, you get venture capitalists, and they're paying your bills. And it used to be when you reached the highest level of success, you could go public and have the public paying your bills. But nowadays, when you finally reach the pinnacle of financial success--like Chrysler--you're so successful you can't be allowed to fail, and the government starts paying your bills. 52 People in Silicon Valley don't like the first stage--paying their own bills. They've been very successful at leapfrogging this step, by getting venture capital up front. Big corporations used to sneer at small computer companies; but the small companies forced the big ones to get into the small computer business. Money coming in says I've made the right marketing decisions. If you make enough units of a product, front-end costs are insignificant noise. 53 Money is the only lethal drug available on a non-prescription basis. Bankers aret he druggists. It's a definite sign of success when your vendors pay your bills. U.S. venture capitalists will hold on while a firm dies, to get more money for it. They deliberately prolonged Osborne's existence. At the end, with every Osborne I they shipped, they lost at least $200. 54 Venture capitalists don't know how to decide which companies are going to be successful. They don't have the slightest idea what the ingredients of a success are. The only thing they know is what worked the last time. They have a tendency to repeat. They'll work it to death. When Osborne first came out he had a startling product that captured people's imaginations. Then everybody began building portables. If you had an idea for a computer with a handle on it, it was easy to go out and get venture capital. The good thing about venture capital is that it provides a lot of jobs. 55 Miscellaneous 56 The MIS department wants control of the computer revolution; they have power and position and want to protect it. But the insurrection will win; as micros get cheaper, more and more of them will enter the corporation. They may be hidden, but they'll be there. As an organization leaves the startup phase and grows, it needs a different kind of employee--one who doesn't have to see the job from start to finish. There'll be a special place in hell for the tape back-up people. 57 User groups are an excellent device to bring pressure upon manufacturers. If I had a business that relied on kids sticking quarters in a machine, I couldn't sleep at night. People think computers will keep them from making mistakes. They're wrong. With computers you make mistakes faster. The small businessman is smart; he realizes there's no free lunch. On the other hand, he knows where to go to get a good inexpensive sandwich. 58 More money has been wasted in artificial intelligence than in any other area of computer technology. We're still not close to having any real idea or model of how the human brain works. Networking hasn't come of age. For right now, carrying a floppy disk from one computer to another is probably still the most effective way to transfer information. Ths is the ultimate con game--I'm having fun and people pay me to do it. 59 Lawyers. The worst parasites this country has produced. The guy who knows about computers is the last person you want to have creating documentation for people who don't understand computers. Portable computers took off because people seem to want handles on their computers--handles that don't really serve them well. People are attracted to handles. 60 Western Union had the chance to buy the telephone patents in 1883 for $40,000--even then a drop in the bucket. They didn't do it because they thought they were in the telegraph business, when really they were in the communication business. Similarly, the railroads didn't realize they weren't in the train business, but the transportation business; so they sat back and watched as cars and planes took it away from them. I don't know what business I'm in. The computer business? The information business? Somebody at IBM knows what business they're in. If there's one thing I'd like to find out, it's what business IBM thinks they're in. They're sure not telling anyone. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

21 years, 7 months

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UV Eraser assistance in NY...

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: cvendel(a)att.net > >Hi, > >Sorry to post off topic, but I'm in a bit of a bind... > >Anyone in the Westchester/Putnam area have a spare UV Eraser that they could either loan or trade with me??? I have a project I need to work on and my UV eraser has completely up and died, looks like the transformer and I really need to update some eprom's to complete code testing for work. > >I a spare VT320, a vaxstation, Atari PC-1 computer, Odyssey2 Video game console and several other items I'd be willing to do a trade for, I also have some tape drives, cd-roms drives and token ring equipment, SCSI cards, older ISA ethernet adapters and so forth if anyone is interested, please contact me off-list if you can help me out, thanks much! > >Curt >cvendel(a)att.net > Hi It is most likely a balast and not a simple transformer. They can usually be replaced by another balast of the same wattage. These can be bought from electrical shops. The bulbs are a little harder to find but they can be ordered from most any electrical shop ( they are expensive, having quartz glass tubes ). Dwight

21 years, 7 months

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Tek 4115B out there

by aek＠spies.com

I have the entire unit > with keyboard, manuals, etc; in storage -- I've been looking for the service manual for 411x series terminals for a while now. I'd like to scan it if you have a copy.

21 years, 7 months

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ASR-33....its alive (sort of)

by CPUMECH＠aol.com

Try Dataterm Inc. for Teletype parts. 781-938-1010 or Dataterm.com.

21 years, 7 months

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help id'ing these 2 Kaypro boards

by rich_bramante＠yahoo.com

pics here: http://www.metabarn.com/forsale/pics/#KAY Top one has "81-914 REV E" on back. Bottom one has "81-1590 REV E" and "KV-01" on back. Thanks. rich __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

21 years, 7 months

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VCF West hotel

by evan947＠yahoo.com

Jay and others -- last year I stayed at the Comfort Inn, at 1561 West El Camino Real, in Mountain View. It wasn't exactly luxorius (no restaurant, though there are a million places to eat on El Camino), but it was cheap, had high-speed Internet, and was very convenient to the CHM (where VCF is). My favorite amenity: there is a movie-theatre style hot popcorn machine in the lobby, and the popcorn is free. Of course if Sellam gets us a discount rate at a Marriott, such as at VCF East, I imagine that would be much nicer than the Comfort Inn...

21 years, 7 months

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UV Eraser assistance in NY...

by cvendel＠att.net

Hi, Sorry to post off topic, but I'm in a bit of a bind... Anyone in the Westchester/Putnam area have a spare UV Eraser that they could either loan or trade with me??? I have a project I need to work on and my UV eraser has completely up and died, looks like the transformer and I really need to update some eprom's to complete code testing for work. I a spare VT320, a vaxstation, Atari PC-1 computer, Odyssey2 Video game console and several other items I'd be willing to do a trade for, I also have some tape drives, cd-roms drives and token ring equipment, SCSI cards, older ISA ethernet adapters and so forth if anyone is interested, please contact me off-list if you can help me out, thanks much! Curt cvendel(a)att.net

21 years, 7 months

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m4 9914

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I got a single ended interface for the 9914... but I'm having fits getting my system to work with it. Anyone really up on these? Jay

21 years, 7 months

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System/32 update

by mross666＠hotmail.com

On Mon, 2004-08-09 at 19:22, Mike Ross wrote: >On Sun, 8 Aug 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > > >>how about a Univac 90 30 ? > >> > >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=162&item=3740834255 > > > >Mmmmm. Nice. I hope someone in the UK can grab this. > >Consider it grabbed. I'm in the USA, but I'll go back home to Britland to >grab that! Spoke too soon... two newly-registered zero-feedback bidders have run the price up to nearly $2000. Bugger that for a game of soldiers - I smell a rat! If anyone else wants to risk getting ripped-off, feel free. I'm outa here. Mike http://www.corestore.org

21 years, 7 months

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More Goodies from the Silicon Valley Refugee

by rcini＠optonline.net

I would be interested in one. ----- Original Message ----- From: D Jensen <dougjensen(a)sprint.ca> Date: Saturday, August 14, 2004 10:35 pm Subject: More Goodies from the Silicon Valley Refugee > Hi please reply as to yes/no availability. > > Thanks > > Doug. > > > > C-64 Speech synthesizer cartridge - $5 each > "Voice Messenger", by Currah Technologies. I have 2 of these, > still shrinkwapped. Uses a hardware synthesizer chip (SSI263??), > and has an extension ROM that adds speech functions to the > built-in > BASIC. The first buyer gets a free light pen that plugs into the > joystick port, but has no docs or software unless I get a surprise > while sorting through my old files. My recollection is that > there's a photodiode in it that generates an interrupt when the > CRT beam > sweeps past it. > > >

21 years, 7 months

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Tek 4115B out there

by sloboyko＠yahoo.com

I have one of these, unused(!) from a gov't auction (a spare, I think). I played with it a little, and then it stopped working but it might have been something I screwed up with a DIP switch. I have the entire unit with keyboard, manuals, etc; in storage, one of the caster legs broke. If someone actually wants (parts) of this, I would trade/sell it for a little more than shipping (it's really big and its impossible to ship the monitor or whole thing); otherwise, I was planning of getting rid of all of it in the fall. It has no 8" drives, just the housing. Wow-it's an incredible, overdesigned machine, with a fairly interesting automatic convergence system. For what it does, it's too large for me! John Allain Said: >Tektronix 4115B on eBay >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4133748396 >Haven't seen more than one or two of these in years, even on eBay. >No keyboard. >If someone on the list has the KB, I'll buy the 4115. Yea... likely. >John A. >ex-User, not the seller. ===== -Steve Loboyko Incredible wisdom actually found in a commerical fortune cookie: "When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day." Website: http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

21 years, 7 months

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More Goodies from the Silicon Valley Refugee

by dougjensen＠sprint.ca

Hi please reply as to yes/no availability. Thanks Doug. C-64 Speech synthesizer cartridge - $5 each "Voice Messenger", by Currah Technologies. I have 2 of these, still shrinkwapped. Uses a hardware synthesizer chip (SSI263??), and has an extension ROM that adds speech functions to the built-in BASIC. The first buyer gets a free light pen that plugs into the joystick port, but has no docs or software unless I get a surprise while sorting through my old files. My recollection is that there's a photodiode in it that generates an interrupt when the CRT beam sweeps past it.

21 years, 7 months

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Terminet 200 on ebay

by mross666＠hotmail.com

FYI: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3832302264 Mike http://www.corestore.org

21 years, 7 months

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The Trip is On...

by m_thompson＠ids.net

I live about 10 miles south of TF Green airport just off of I-95. If you are interested in some free Sun Microsystems SS-10s, IPC, IPX, or LX systems let me know. At 11:19 PM 8/13/2004 -0400, you wrote: >And off I go...Traveling up to Wayland to pick up a Teletype, LSI-11, VT-52, >Assorted Documentation, Commodore 64 Items, and other Misc Stop. Going to >hopefully stop in RI and pick up an Apollo, IBM Printer and some other >items. > >Most of the known items are already spoke for by some list members, but I >will post and additional items that are not on "our" keep list early next >week. > >Thanks to Jays wonderful advice, I have checked the spare, and even bought a >can of "fix-a-flat" (Plus I am AAA)..... > >If there is anyone in CT, RI, or South East MA that has computer equipment >they are looking to dispose of, send me an e-mail...mayby the traveling van >can stop buy you this weekend [send me a direct e-mail] > >Of course if you have a PDP-8, TU-56 or relased items, the van WILL stop buy >(even if just to oogle) and will have cash! > >David > > > Michael Thompson E-Mail: M_Thompson(a)IDS.net

21 years, 7 months

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Fixed! RE: Where to see vintage computers in (your town here) ???

by evan947＠yahoo.com

The site now works properly on Mozilla and Navigator. Personally I use Opera, where it also works fine. For those who missed the original email, here's the scoop: I recently update the site http://news.computercollector.com (the informational page for my weekly email magazine), and there's now a new "On the road" section where you can find places to see vintage computers all around America. - Evan

21 years, 7 months

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Where to see vintage computers in (your town here) ???

by news＠computercollector.com

Hello fellow collectors, There's a new resource for finding places to see antique computers, at the (updated) web site of the Computer Collector E-mail Newsletter. The URL remains the same as before (http://news.computercollector.com) but now there's a much improved section called "On the road" with a directory of museums and stores. I created this page because I keep seeing the same question appear on classiccmp over and over again, and then I started getting the same question >from newsletter readers too. Currently there are 53 listings. Mostly they are museums (some for adults and some for children) and there are some stores too. In the future, I plan to add more listings of electronics and surplus stores, swap meets locations, and bookstores. The "On the road" directory and the newsletter itself, which still publishes every Monday(-ish), are and will always remain free. However, I do ask for your help. If you know of any museums, stores that sell old computers or relevant parts, swap meets, or science/technology bookstores, no matter how small or out-of-the-way they are, then please tell me. For now the directory is sorted by U.S. state, but when it becomes more full, I'll probably make it searchable and also separated by category (museum, store, etc.)... eventually I'll add non-U.S. locations too. Another idea I have is to post reviews from people who've been to the locations in person. I hope this helps! - Evan

21 years, 7 months

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PET problem SOLVED!

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

Ethan, Dwight (and anyone else who helped), Thanks for all the help - I've solved it and it works! Turns out it was NOT the ROM's -- After my last post I got to thinking that the PET ROM's are probably fused type, and wouldn't go marginal like an EPROM, so I focused on the RAM - sure enough, testing again, and I found that bit 1 of location $11 was stuck at zero (I'm positive I tried it before and it seemed to work - bit the funky PET monitor with it's exact # of spaces required was causing me some grief!) Anway, when 01 got incremented, instead of 02, it got 00 - this was hanging the search for end of RAM, which never incremented the high byte and therefore never traped at 32k.. Checking the Schematic, bit 1 of the low memory bank is U17 - pulled it, put in a socket (always!) and stuffed another 4116 - voila!!! it came right up! Also figured out the startup "noise" mystery (such unanswered questions "bug" me), turns out the PORTA bit 7, which is used for the DIAG input is also used to control the speaker (it was right on the schematic once I looked for it - duh) - pulling this line low disabled the speaker. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 7 months

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Custom made front panels

by sloboyko＠yahoo.com

I've had Front Panel Express make some things and I think it's worth the price. Real quality work, and nearly what you see on your screen is what you get >from UPS. ===== -Steve Loboyko Incredible wisdom actually found in a commerical fortune cookie: "When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day." Website: http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

21 years, 7 months

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Let's develop an open-source media archive standard

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

If someone is going to make the effort to decode the information from the original computer media into the archive standard then if the data is 10 or 100 times larger than the original should not be an issue. The same is true for costs. I have seen too many systems where there was a perceived decision that it would be too costly to "do it right". The idea is to take a copy of a program or data and convert it/archive it once and know that it is then saved. Think of the following; Stone once was expensive so clay tablets were used. Papyrus was expensive so wax tablets were used At one time paper was too expensive so it was not used chalk on a board was used instead. Later pulp paper was cheaper and acid free paper was expensive. Punch cards once were cheap Mark Sense forms Magnetic tape Magnetic disk Optical disk CD-ROM DVD The "best" real long-term media that I can think of is "eye ball" readable. Think Rosetta stone. Do you want to use Big-Indian, Little-Indian, Intel, Motorola, Cyrillic, cuneiform, hieroglyphs, binary, hex, octal RAD50, left-to-right, right-to-left, Chinese, Japanese, English, Pig Latin, Latin, Spanish, Old English, Old Latin, Norse, Mayan or Esperanto? I have heard that the Mormon Church is using iridium disks inscribed with an ion writer, it may take a magnifying glass but it's readable. It's supposed to last 1,000 years. This may be slightly sacrilegious. We will then need a "priesthood" of fanatical zealots to protect the archived data for posterity. I nominate Sellam to be the patron saint of data retention. Tony can be the patron saint of hardware restoration. I'll be friar Mike hunched over a lectern transcribing data with an ion writer. Mike

21 years, 7 months

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RQZX1 setup?

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

I'm trying to find documentation on an RQZX1 Qbus SCSI controller. I'd like to know the dip switch settings, and especially how to access the ROM-based configuration tool. Any help would be sincerely appreciated. Doc Shipley

21 years, 7 months

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He shoots... he scores!

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Just obtained an M4 Data tape drive, model 9914 (800/1600/3200/6250)... just pulled from working service...desktop enclosure... $50 bucks :) I believe it's Differential, not single ended. I haven't kept up with PC technology (hooking this to a PC). Is this older Differential the same as LVD? I believe it had a centronics 50 pin connector labeled "differential". I'm wondering what SCSI card I can use with this... Adaptec 2940? Jay

21 years, 7 months

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Custom made front panels

by swtpc6800＠comcast.net

When I restored my TV Typewriters I made a metal case. I was looking for a good way to label the back panel. I found an online source for engraved panels. FrontPanelExpress provides free design software (Windows only) and very reasonable prices. www.frontpanelexpress.com I ordered a 4.5 by 13.5 inch panel with punched holes for a DB25 connector, switches and fuseholder. It was anodize aluminum with in-filled lettering. The cost for one was $46 plus shipping. I have a write-up here. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/Restore/BackPanel.htm Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley

21 years, 7 months

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PET startup sequence?? (was LF: Commodore PET schematics, troubleshooting info)

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Dave Dunfield" <dave04a(a)dunfield.com> > ---snip--- > >Any further ideas? Hi Dave It still sounds like a RAM related issue. The 6502's needed to gate the VMA with Phase2 ( as I recall ) to get clean address selects. You might put a scope on this circuit and make sure it looks like it is working well. You should try to create a more exhaustive RAM test. Although, time consuming, GALPAT is just about the most intensive. Dwight > >Regards, >Dave >-- >dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Vintage computing equipment collector. > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > >

21 years, 7 months

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PET startup sequence?? (was LF: Commodore PET schematics, troubleshooting info)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Aug 13 2004, 11:27, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > You should try to create a more exhaustive RAM test. > Although, time consuming, GALPAT is just about the > most intensive. I know Dave doesn't need it now, but a GALPAT is a very slow test for any sizeable amount of RAM. It's also very old, and not 100% effective against certain errors, though much better than some of the common march tests. It was common in the 70s but a fair amount of work on testing has been done since then and there are much better tests now. I had to do a project for a degree course a few years ago, and found a much better test (in Communications of the ACM), which I coded for a Z80. It tests 8KB RAM in less than 6 seconds at 4MHz, but one of its nice features is that it runs in linear time, so 32K would only take 4 times as long (24s) not 16 times as long -- a GALPAT has order O(n^2). During the project, one of my colleagues worked out that the GALPAT he'd coded would take an hour or two for the same memory. It also doesn't need to use any RAM itself on a Z80 (because there are enough registers), though it would on a 6502. If anyone wants a copy I can give you the Z80 code, some notes from the project writeup, and the CACM references. BTW, most modern tests used commercially are less thorough than a GALPAT; they generally depend on the assumption that most faults depend on the bit(s) immediately adjacent to the faulty one, and require knowledge of the cell topography to be properly effective. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 7 months

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Xerox Alto Restoration + Emulation (Mike Ross)

by mross666＠hotmail.com

>>the McMasterUniv/KevinStumpf PDP-15 several years ago. >How is Kevin.S lately? I got the impression that he was one of the older >collectors looking to get out of the hobby, or at least lower the >collection >by an order of magnitude. I bought from him a sys/370-168 control panel. >The guy was definitely into big stuff. He's pretty much out of the hobby, I believe. I think the stuff I got from him was pretty much the last. He's pursing other interests, AFAIK. Mike http://www.corestore.org

21 years, 7 months

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Custom made front panels

by rcini＠optonline.net

Mike: I've prototyped (and Scott has refined) a replacement Altair 8800 front panel with this service. $98 for single units dropping to the low-$80's. I haven't ordered samples yet but if I get the front panel attachment for the Altair32 Emulator done, I will. Rich ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Holley <swtpc6800(a)comcast.net> Date: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:38 pm Subject: Custom made front panels > When I restored my TV Typewriters I made a metal case. I was > looking for a > good way to label the back panel. I found an online source for > engravedpanels. FrontPanelExpress provides free design software > (Windows only) and > very reasonable prices. > www.frontpanelexpress.com > > I ordered a 4.5 by 13.5 inch panel with punched holes for a DB25 > connector,switches and fuseholder. It was anodize aluminum with in- > filled lettering. > The cost for one was $46 plus shipping. I have a write-up here. > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/Restore/BackPanel.htm > > Michael Holley > www.swtpc.com/mholley > > >

21 years, 7 months

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Anybody have $35K to $89K to spend...

by rmeenaks＠olf.com

Aladdin 4D is now on ebay (with source and full rights): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2992&item=3693574489& rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW I contacted the guy asking about the transputer port (the Amiga Warp boards) but he only said it was a contracted item. Also asked who did the port so that I could contact them, but he wouldn't say. Anyone here know???? Thanks, Ram

21 years, 7 months

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8" floppy drives

by Gianmario.Scotti＠nokia.com

Hello, I know this is a long shot, but I can try: do you still have any of those 8" floppy drives you mentioned in classiccmp.org newsgroup? thanks in advance mario

21 years, 7 months

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PET problem SOLVED!

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Aug 13 2004, 22:07, Dave Dunfield wrote: > Ethan, Dwight (and anyone else who helped), > > Thanks for all the help - I've solved it and it works! > > Turns out it was NOT the ROM's -- After my last post I got to thinking that the PET > ROM's are probably fused type, and wouldn't go marginal like an EPROM They're masked ROMs, not fusible-link types. Even fusible-link ROMs can occasionally go bad, though less often and more slowly than EPROMs. Sometimes the fuses "grow back" by diffusion. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 7 months

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Tandy

by tyger69＠chartermi.net

Someone said: Tandy was trying to peddle some "business" "mini-computer"s. IIRC, it was built into a desk. I don't know where you had to go to actually SEE one (I don't think that even the Radio Shack "computer center"s had them), but Tandy did have a catalog for them. Yup! That's the animal, all right...built into a desk. I can post the picture on a webpage if anyone is interested in eyeballin' it. --T Jam the computer...trash every lethal machine in the land! -- Timothy Leary

21 years, 7 months

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PET startup sequence?? (was LF: Commodore PET schematics, troubleshooting info)

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Hi If I understand you right, there is a RAM test. Place this same code in low RAM ( assuming it test going up ) with the initial value such that it doesn't overwrite your code. If it hanges, it is something that it is talking to. If it hanges, the ROM problem is likely. You migh also look at changing the PS voltage slightly. Rasing the voltage by 3% should not cause any failures but if it starts to work, it is an indication. Dwight >From: "Dave Dunfield" <dave04a(a)dunfield.com> > >A little more progress... > >Here is the BASIC startup code, which is jumped to by the kernel (in F000 ROM) if DIAG is >not pulled low (Basically, it goes either here or the monitor): > >; initcz Initialize BASIC RAM > D3B6 iD3B6 LDX #$FB > D3B8 TXS > D3B9 LDA #$4C > D3BB STA $51 > D3BD STA $00 ; USR Function Jump Instr (4C) > D3BF LDA #$73 > D3C1 LDY #$C3 > D3C3 STA $01 ; USR Address [4: C373] > D3C5 STY $02 > D3C7 LDX #$1C > D3C9 iD3C9 LDA $D398,X > D3CC STA $6F,X > D3CE DEX > D3CF BNE $D3C9 > D3D1 LDA #$03 > D3D3 STA $50 > D3D5 TXA > D3D6 STA $65 ; Floating -accum. #1: Overflow Digit > D3D8 STA $10 ; 3: width of source (unused - from TTY) > D3DA STA $15 > D3DC STA $0D ; 3: Flag to suppress PRINT or PRINT# > D3DE PHA > D3DF INX > D3E0 STX $01FD > D3E3 STX $01FC > D3E6 LDX #$16 > D3E8 STX $13 ; Pointer Temporary String > D3EA LDY #$04 > D3EC STA $28 ; Pointer: Start of BASIC Text [0401] > D3EE STY $29 > D3F0 STA $11 ; Temp: Integer Value > D3F2 STY $12 > D3F4 TAY > D3F5 LDA #$80 > D3F7 BNE $D400 > D3F9 LDA #$00 > D3FB LDY #$B0 > D3FD JMP $D41B > D400 iD400 INC $11 ; Temp: Integer Value > D402 BNE $D408 > D404 INC $12 > D406 BMI $D417 ; initms Output Power-Up Message > D408 iD408 LDA #$55 > D40A STA ($11),Y ; Temp: Integer Value > D40C CMP ($11),Y ; Temp: Integer Value > D40E BNE $D417 ; initms Output Power-Up Message > D410 ASL > D411 STA ($11),Y ; Temp: Integer Value > D413 CMP ($11),Y ; Temp: Integer Value > D415 BEQ $D400 > >; initms Output Power-Up Message > D417 iD417 LDA $11 ; Temp: Integer Value > > >On the working PET, I can use 'G D3B6' and it starts BASIC, just as if it >were running normally. On the bad PET, it hangs, and never prints the message >which is output by the very next block (D417). > >[Interesting side note - this NEVER produces the startup "noise", so it is >clearly not produced by BASIC either ... a mystery] > >Now, on the bad pet, if I do 'G D417', which bypasses this block of code, >it issues the startup message and comes up in BASIC (somewhat weird because >various things were not setup, but it's there). > >So - thats pretty conclusive proof that this is the block where the problem >is manifesting itself. > >Looking at the block of code, it "shouldn't" hang ... There are only two >loops, the first is counted by a register (as long as the CPU is good this >should work, and I have swapped the 6502 with the other machine) ... the >second goes until RAM fails to verify (this will definately happen by the >time it reaches the ROM), or the $11,$12 location wraps to a negative >value (32k max RAM). There are no subroutine calls in this block, so it >should not depend on a valid stack. > >Using my "try BASIC then reset to monitor without interrupting power" >technique, I see that $11,$12 almost always contains $01,$40, which means >that it reached the INC $11 once (first time through). > >The only way I can see this loop crashing is if the $11 (or $12) location >does no increment correctly (RAM fauly) - I've manually tested all kinds of >values in them, or if the ROM "goes bad" during code execution. > >[If the $12 location was faulty, I should see "random" values in $11 depending >on the timing of when I hit reset] > >I'm thinking ROM again (this was my "gut feel" when I started because I have >seen so many PET ROM's go bad) - although it reads OK in my EPROM programmer, >and also this block dumps correctly from the monitor, both of these accesses >are fairly laid back - hitting the code is the first time we execute code from >this device... Timing on execute could be tighter (I haven't checked the >databook yet), also the frequency of accesses will be much higher ... Perhaps >if the ROM is marginal, one of these factors is enough to cause a failure. > >I think a bad ROM is more likely than a single location in the RAM appearing >to work for manual tests, but failing during this particular block of code, >especially considering that the rest of RAM is good enough for lots of other >stuff to run ... > >What do you guys think? Anyone have experiences with marginal PET roms? > >Regards, >Dave > >-- >dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Vintage computing equipment collector. > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > >

21 years, 7 months

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PET startup sequence?? (was LF: Commodore PET schematics, troubleshooting info)

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

>Hi Dave > It still sounds like a RAM related issue. The 6502's >needed to gate the VMA with Phase2 ( as I recall ) to >get clean address selects. You might put a scope on >this circuit and make sure it looks like it is working >well. > You should try to create a more exhaustive RAM test. >Although, time consuming, GALPAT is just about the >most intensive. >Dwight Hi Dwight, I've checked all the RAM signals - everything looks OK (about the same as the other unit). I tried putting my diagnostic jumper on both the other (working) SP9000 and the PET 4032 that I have here, and both of them exhibit the same problems with getting the monitor up and running - so I think those issues are just a red herring and are not realated to the actual fault. (For some reason, entering 'M 6666' seems to cause a "break" which comes back with SP=FF and from then on it works OK - on all three machines). I haven't seen a RAM error yet in my poking around (and I've done a fair bit), however there could be address bus errors etc. which I would not see. I really wish I had a better way to load code into the machine then through the keyboard - I may still do up a RAM test replacement for the kernel ROM. (Which is a big job, since I don't have a plug-in replacement for the 2332 so I need to make up an adapter etc.) Has anyone created a "virtual" tape deck? - The monitor has commands to load and save memory from/to tape... I'm still trying to fathom what exactly is happening at power-up - I can't explain the timing of the "beep" - I thought it might bave been generated by the interrupt, however with pin4 physically pulled out and tied high (no IRQ) the beep still happens... I think the key to understanding what is going on is to figure out exactly where it's hanging during the initialization of BASIC. Btw, if I hit 'X' at the monitor prompt, I do get the BASIC 'READY' prompt, although you can't do anything due to the fact that in this case, BASIC never got initialized ... Same thing happens on the other machines. Argh... this is turning into a bigger job than I had expected (It's a lot easier when things don't work at all) ... I want to get these d*mn things off my bench - I acquired a 5100 earlier this week which is has been calling to me ever since I brought it home. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 7 months

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PET startup sequence?? (was LF: Commodore PET schematics,troubleshooting info)

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

Hi Ethan, Thanks again for the very useful information. I've had some success - but now have more questions than answers. Reminder: This SuperPET 9000 has been stripped to just the 6502 board. On power-up it init's screen (can see garbage, then clear), plays the "bee-dle-bee-dle-bee-dle" startup noise, then hangs with the blank screen (never displays basic startup message). Some experimentation suggests the it continues to run code at this point (ie: is hung waiting for something), however this is by no means certain. I hunted around funet and found the Basic4 ROM disassembly - as far as I can tell, it exactly matches the ROMs in this PET. Looking at the startup code ($FD16), and the schematic, I was able to identify the diagnostic input signal (Pin 5 of user port), and when held low, it DOES startup in the monitor (Took me a long time to figure out the commands - especially the fact that you need TWO spaces after ':' to write to memory). Now is where things get interesting. The monitor always starts up, and the 'R' always works, however 'M' to display memory causes it to crash about 80% of the time - however if it works, it is reliable, and 'M' will continue to work until the next time I restart the machine. Even 'M xxxx' (no second address which normally never outputs anything anyway) will fail. Depending on the value of 'xxxx', it will either crash (hang), or more often re-enter the monitor with 'B*' indicating it thinks a breakpoint went off (not suprising if the stack is corrupt - read on). At first I thought this might be an indication of bad RAM (still might be), however after playing with it for a while, I noticed that the SP in the register display is always '01', '03' or some low value when it doesn't work - I'm guessing the monitor tries to locate it's stack below here and it wraps) - sometimes SP shows up as FF or FE, and then all works fine. I have no idea how this is (not) getting initialized on power-up entry to the monitor through the diag signal (any idea)? Once it "works", I can read and write RAM and it appears to be holding the values (although by no means an exhaustive test). Another thing I don't understand yet: When powered-up with diag held low, the system goes directly into the monitor ($D472), and DOES NOT play the "bee-dle-bee-dle..." startup noise. This indicates that this noise should be generated by entry into BASIC ($D3B6). Looking at this code, it sets up a few location in zero pages, and then output the startup message (no other subs are called in between) - I see nothing which would generate the "noise" - so one would think it is being generated AFTER the startup message, however ... When I start the machine with DIAG high (normal), I see screenful of garbage (briefly) and then it clears, then the "noise" plays - no message comes out, but I know the screen is working. Referring to the working machine, it is clear that the "noise" finishes BEFORE the text comes out, however I don't see where it could be generated. The only function called before the message is output is $E000 to setup the I/O, however it is called before DIAG is tested (ie: even if entering the monitor), and the noise is not heard in this case... By using a reset switch, I was able (after several attempts) to bring the machine up from power off in "normal" mode, and then pull DIAG low and reset to enter the monitor and examine the RAM - comparing the values in ZPAGE to those written by the BASIC init code, I can confirm that the code just before the message is output is in fact executing... Any further ideas? Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 7 months

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Introduction

by jwstephens＠msm.umr.edu

nice page of systems, especially the core one. Was the photo of your system, or taken from the book? user anonymous wrote: > I have been on this list for about a month now. Very interesting how many people still play around with this old stuff. I have a few pictures of some of my old computers and peripherals for those interested. > > http://www.dickey.intell-a-sys.com/collect.html > > Most are my original systems and have some interesting peripherals attached. I have a few other computers that I am still rebuilding. I have not worked on them in a while, but reading all your mail may ignite that spark. Too many hobbies. > > Well, just thought I would introduce myself.

21 years, 7 months

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PET startup sequence?? (was LF: Commodore PET schematics, troubleshooting info)

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

A little more progress... Here is the BASIC startup code, which is jumped to by the kernel (in F000 ROM) if DIAG is not pulled low (Basically, it goes either here or the monitor): ; initcz Initialize BASIC RAM D3B6 iD3B6 LDX #$FB D3B8 TXS D3B9 LDA #$4C D3BB STA $51 D3BD STA $00 ; USR Function Jump Instr (4C) D3BF LDA #$73 D3C1 LDY #$C3 D3C3 STA $01 ; USR Address [4: C373] D3C5 STY $02 D3C7 LDX #$1C D3C9 iD3C9 LDA $D398,X D3CC STA $6F,X D3CE DEX D3CF BNE $D3C9 D3D1 LDA #$03 D3D3 STA $50 D3D5 TXA D3D6 STA $65 ; Floating -accum. #1: Overflow Digit D3D8 STA $10 ; 3: width of source (unused - from TTY) D3DA STA $15 D3DC STA $0D ; 3: Flag to suppress PRINT or PRINT# D3DE PHA D3DF INX D3E0 STX $01FD D3E3 STX $01FC D3E6 LDX #$16 D3E8 STX $13 ; Pointer Temporary String D3EA LDY #$04 D3EC STA $28 ; Pointer: Start of BASIC Text [0401] D3EE STY $29 D3F0 STA $11 ; Temp: Integer Value D3F2 STY $12 D3F4 TAY D3F5 LDA #$80 D3F7 BNE $D400 D3F9 LDA #$00 D3FB LDY #$B0 D3FD JMP $D41B D400 iD400 INC $11 ; Temp: Integer Value D402 BNE $D408 D404 INC $12 D406 BMI $D417 ; initms Output Power-Up Message D408 iD408 LDA #$55 D40A STA ($11),Y ; Temp: Integer Value D40C CMP ($11),Y ; Temp: Integer Value D40E BNE $D417 ; initms Output Power-Up Message D410 ASL D411 STA ($11),Y ; Temp: Integer Value D413 CMP ($11),Y ; Temp: Integer Value D415 BEQ $D400 ; initms Output Power-Up Message D417 iD417 LDA $11 ; Temp: Integer Value On the working PET, I can use 'G D3B6' and it starts BASIC, just as if it were running normally. On the bad PET, it hangs, and never prints the message which is output by the very next block (D417). [Interesting side note - this NEVER produces the startup "noise", so it is clearly not produced by BASIC either ... a mystery] Now, on the bad pet, if I do 'G D417', which bypasses this block of code, it issues the startup message and comes up in BASIC (somewhat weird because various things were not setup, but it's there). So - thats pretty conclusive proof that this is the block where the problem is manifesting itself. Looking at the block of code, it "shouldn't" hang ... There are only two loops, the first is counted by a register (as long as the CPU is good this should work, and I have swapped the 6502 with the other machine) ... the second goes until RAM fails to verify (this will definately happen by the time it reaches the ROM), or the $11,$12 location wraps to a negative value (32k max RAM). There are no subroutine calls in this block, so it should not depend on a valid stack. Using my "try BASIC then reset to monitor without interrupting power" technique, I see that $11,$12 almost always contains $01,$40, which means that it reached the INC $11 once (first time through). The only way I can see this loop crashing is if the $11 (or $12) location does no increment correctly (RAM fauly) - I've manually tested all kinds of values in them, or if the ROM "goes bad" during code execution. [If the $12 location was faulty, I should see "random" values in $11 depending on the timing of when I hit reset] I'm thinking ROM again (this was my "gut feel" when I started because I have seen so many PET ROM's go bad) - although it reads OK in my EPROM programmer, and also this block dumps correctly from the monitor, both of these accesses are fairly laid back - hitting the code is the first time we execute code from this device... Timing on execute could be tighter (I haven't checked the databook yet), also the frequency of accesses will be much higher ... Perhaps if the ROM is marginal, one of these factors is enough to cause a failure. I think a bad ROM is more likely than a single location in the RAM appearing to work for manual tests, but failing during this particular block of code, especially considering that the rest of RAM is good enough for lots of other stuff to run ... What do you guys think? Anyone have experiences with marginal PET roms? Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 7 months

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Pile of Mac IIFX

by mkmizote＠raytheon.com

Hello, Do you still have that pile of Mac IIFX's. We may be interested in them if they still work. Thanks. Mike

21 years, 7 months

1
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Let's develop an open-source media archive standard

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Antonio Carlini" <a.carlini(a)ntlworld.com> > >> The necessity of CRC's depend on what you plan on doing with the data. >> If it is just going to be sitting in a nice, safe box, then >> it doesn't >> matter. > >True. Unless you've gone to the trouble of archiving the >stuff because you would like it to be reliably retrievable >at some point in the future. > >If reliable retrieval in the future is of no concern, >then I propose a format conisting of an empty file. >At least you'll be certain of what you get :-) > >Seriously, after all the discussion of bit-rot on >various media, how can you consider some sort of >checksum to be anything other than essential? > >Some sort of error-correcting code might be an >even better idea. > >Antonio > > Hi Part of the problem here is that if the file containing the archive had any bit rot, most systems designed to read that media would simply fail to read the information. In many cases, it might not even be possible to read the CRC after the error occured. For error correction, one must also realize that one can only correct a single burst of errors that is smaller than a size specified by the correction method. Most of these can at least detect any single bit error. I have been known to recover data from cassette tapes by simply recording all of the data that comes out and modifying the data after the error. In my case, it was machester encoded and, by flipping and shifting the data, I was able to determine the size of the missing data. In some cases, the check sum was used to replace the missing bits. Still, in this case, I was able to bypass the normal code that read the media. I'm not against putting CRC's in, I'm just stating that there are limitations to its usefulness if something is lost other than to detect the loss. To keep from losing things still takes full redundency. Dwight

21 years, 7 months

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Let's develop an open-source media archive standard

by melamy＠earthlink.net

you have to think beyond emulators and think of just getting the data. You started this whole thing out by asking for ideas and concepts to make sure that disks could be made in years to come. I challenge you to expand the horizon and suggest that what you need is a way to get the data out easily and make disks. Personally, I have zero use for a image file format that can only be used to make disks and makes getting data out of it a pain in the backside. Maybe in years, I will need to make a floppy disk, but I believe that getting the data out (files or whatever you choose to call them) is more important and will be that way in the future also. Where small things can get lost, having a "standard" image file format that let's me do both makes more sense to me. As for emulators, Microfast by Simeon Cran uses an import from ms-dos and the emulator runs great. The original BabyBlue card wrapped the cp/m program in a ms-dos wrapper and then you didn't even have to think twice about running a compiler, linker, etc. Would it do direct disk access? No, but that is what the original platforms are for. Most programs went through the OS for disk access because they were file oriented. I can't recall how Fred arranged his emulator, but I have a copy of that to. Your arguement about emulator programmers wondering "why" about binary is a non-issue. The spec defines ascii and that is the way data is represented. They will probably more appreciate the the standard then complaining about such things. If they do, then they certainly don't need to write anything. A user could easily write the utility or someone who is part of the standards group will make software templates and simple utilities available. Writing the utilities would be something that I wouldn't mind helping with for example. The image file that you are discussing is only good as a "how to" to write arbitrary data to arbitrary media. It is only good for creating a final media image because the format being contemplated (mixing data into the physical spec) will preclude the file from standing on its own. I was proposing identifying data blocks as files if that is what they were. The data blocks would have been sequential and trivial to retrieve. That is hardly what I would call defining a file system as part of the image file. best regards, Steve Thatcher Original Message: ----------------- From: Vintage Computer Festival vcf(a)siconic.com Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:25:20 -0700 (PDT) To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Let's develop an open-source media archive standard On Wed, 11 Aug 2004, Steve Thatcher wrote: > what is wrong with making things easier? If a small amount of effort > could be put out to make the image file have a more useful purpose then > to ONLY be able to create media, why not? Your view seems to be to make > all the emulators tyhat are currently available not work anymore because > now they have to be modified to access an image file. My idea is to not Steve, All emulators for 8-bit machines today that I'm aware of use disk images. Emulators like SIMH can read in individual files by, for instance, turning the file into a virtual paper tape reader. Your point, again, is taken, but so is Dwight's. I think it depends on what emulators you spend most of your time playing with which defines your outlook on this. One problem I did think of after I sent my last message concerning this is that if you do start including filesystems, people (probably emulator writers in particular) will start to wonder why you didn't store the data in binary. "Why," they ask, "do I have to convert the data from ASCII when the file is fully capable of holding binary data?" Then you might get some joker making unauthorized extensions to the spec with binary data fields. Perhaps I'm getting carried away here, but I do see this as potentially problematic. > If you thought of an emulator is to BE the machine in absolutely all > respects then yes who ever is writing it needs to understand the file > structure intimately and we need to add even more to the specification > to allow writing to an image file... Isn't the specification itself a "how to" for writing an image file? Also, the image file we are discussing is *NOT*, again, intended to serve the emulators. Emulator usage is a SECONDARY concern. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .

21 years, 7 months

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MC670P ICs

by psmith＠fox19.com

Tim, I just saw your e-gram stating you had some MC679P ICs. Is there any chance you still have them? I have some ancient equipment that uses this "coal fired logic" and I recently blew up some chips. Paul K Smith Chief Engineer WXIX-TV (513) 562-2428

21 years, 7 months

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Let's develop an open-source media archive standard

by RCini＠congressfinancial.com

This example represents the block data using metatags...I guess along the "XML" part of the thread. I was thinking similarly to you but not using XML metadata: ;Hardware descriptor MFGR MACHINE SUBTYPE DRIVETYPE (this of course defines what follows) ;for floppy DRIVESIZE ENCODING TRACKS SECTORS SECTSIZE ;HexData ; Each record or group of records contains the related media data. The address record would be used for encoding the metadata 00TTSSHH: (00-track-sector-head) I looked to Intel Hex (or Motorola) because it had built-in CRC facilities and it was human-readable ASCII. The drive and machine description could be encoded in special MOT records probably. XML is more a more "current" technology but I was trying to keep with the platform neutrality by sticking to text-only and not assuming the use of any other technology like XML. Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:56 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: Let's develop an open-source media archive standard On Wed, 11 Aug 2004, Cini, Richard wrote: > I might have missed what the ultimate use of this archive would be. Will the > archive be used to (1) re-generate original media; (2) operate with > emualtors; (3) both? Both. Emulators will certainly be able to make use of the archive by having parsers built-in that can translate the archive data into something the emulator can use. So instead of point the emulator to a binary disk image, you would point it to an archive file and it would translate the file back into tracks/sectors, or punch cards, or whatever. > To ensure integrity of the data I would propose recording the data in the > Intel Hex format -- it's text-based and has built-in CRC. Now, we'd have to > modify the standard format a bit to accommodate a larger address space and > to add some sort of standardized header (a "Hardware Descriptor"). This data > would be used by the de-archiver to interpret the stream of data read from > the data area (the "Hex Block"). I think you're thinking of this in terms of a large binary file encoded as ASCII hex. If so, this is not what's being proposed. What is being discussed is a format which actually describes the physical medium. For example, on floppy: <MEDIA TYPE=FLOPPY SIZE=5.25 SIDES=1 DENSITY=SINGLE FORMAT=GCR TRACKS=35 SECTORS=16 SECTORSIZE=256> <VOLUME>Apple ][ System Disk</VOLUME> </MEDIA> <DATA> <TRACK 0><SECTOR 0> HERE WOULD BE THE ASCII HEX DATA FOR TRACK 0, SECTOR 0 </SECTOR></TRACK> ... <TRACK 34><SECTOR 15> HERE WOULD BE THE ASCII HEX DATA FOR TRACK 34, SECTOR 15 </SECTOR></TRACK> </DATA> > I think that we should start compiling a list of the various media we want > represented and how that media is organized natively. I don't mean "well, it > has blocks and sectors" either. We should examine the exact format down to > the actual numbers (i.e., "2048 blocks of 256-bytes recorded twice"). Seeing > how the various data stores are organized should bring some clarity to how > we should represent it. I agree. This would be useful. Does someone want to volunteer to do this? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

21 years, 7 months

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Old stuff

by HB＠kpll.dk

Hi, I assume you have left the B26 platform for a long time ago. But what you had in your hand was a excellent machine, with no comparison at that time, think about running multitasking on an 80186 platform, no one else, as far I know, has done that. You can not boot on any DOS/Windows disks, you have to have an B26 operating system, the prompt V 9.2 B,D,L,M,P,T:_ is at debug level, you can choose here to boot on varios sources, but again you need an old BTOS/CTOS os I did work for Burroughs-Unisys- and a Unisys consultant company at that time working primary with BTOS/CTOS. Best regards / Med venlig hilsen Henrik Bigum IT-Consultant KPLL Pilestr?de 65 1112 K?benhavn K e-mail hb(a)kpll.dk Phone +4533744100 Fax +4533744001

21 years, 7 months

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Let's develop an open-source media archive standard

by melamy＠earthlink.net

what is wrong with making things easier? If a small amount of effort could be put out to make the image file have a more useful purpose then to ONLY be able to create media, why not? Your view seems to be to make all the emulators tyhat are currently available not work anymore because now they have to be modified to access an image file. My idea is to not change all that, make the image file simple enough to extract data. I really believe that to not do that simple thing will make the project less than what it could have been. I am not proposing something that takes a lot of code, but rather let's us do things simpler. Maybe you need to define what an emulator is so I can understand why you think being able to access data easily should not be done. If you thought of an emulator is to BE the machine in absolutely all respects then yes who ever is writing it needs to understand the file structure intimately and we need to add even more to the specification to allow writing to an image file... If you are designing an emulator to look like a front panel and run cp/m programs from you favorite stash, then having to design a complicated file structure interface to an image file is not needed. best regards, Steve Thatcher From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwight.elvey(a)amd.com> Sent: Aug 11, 2004 3:24 PM To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Let's develop an open-source media archive standard >From: "Steve Thatcher" <melamy(a)earthlink.net> > > >I realize that the idea is to create a format to make re-creation >of media possible for a variety of platforms. We can certainly do >that and have its only function be to maintain a physical data format. >My added idea is that the data and the formatting be separated so >that a simple utility on a non-target platform could extract data >from the image file. > >If we create a physical description only and do not abstract the data >then any emulator must understand the OS file structure in order to >retrieve any internal file representation. My idea would make the >file re-creation simple in that the xml image file would be parsed >for the actual file data that an emulator would need. This makes >the emulator easier. No, this is to archive the disk, not to make life easy for emulators. Again, you assume that the data is files. Also, anyone making such an emulator will surely know how to find files ( if they exist ) in an image of the disk. Most emulators include the BIOS and such. The emulator that we have in the H8 group simply uses the BIOS code and the boot code from the disk to find file ( as it should ). It just needs raw data. The emulator I/O is just tracks and sectors, not files. >To retrieve a file from the physical layout that it at the end of this >message, >the emulator must know the actual disk format that is used on >the target system (the one the image file was made for). I have seen >cp/m systems where the actual physical sectors were sequential on disk >and the OS file sector was actually virtual to increase speed. Not my >idea of the way to do it. It is much easier to make the physical >sectors slewed so that a physical sector is a file sector. These >are the types of issues you will have to overcome if an emulator >must totally understand each and every file system for a cp/m >version for example. Like I said, the archive file can include sufficient information to extract the data in any form that you'd like but it must as a minimum be able to recreate the physical disk. It may take some human to actually make the physical media generator but the data in the file should be sufficient to do that. This is not an easy task and goes beyond simply finding files in the raw data. Dwight > >Sellam, let me know if you would like to discuss this via telephone > so I can convery the idea that I am proposing. > >best regards, Steve Thatcher > >-----Original Message----- >From: Vintage Computer Festival <vcf(a)siconic.com> >Sent: Aug 11, 2004 3:00 PM >To: Steve Thatcher <melamy(a)earthlink.net>, > "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> >Subject: RE: Let's develop an open-source media archive standard > >On Wed, 11 Aug 2004, Steve Thatcher wrote: > >> I agree with Sellam on the point about using it both for media >> re-creation and emulation. The trouble with the approach below of just >> using raw data on a track sector basis is that now you have created a >> file that can only be used with an emulator that understands the >> physical format and OS access for the computer system you are emulating. > >That is the point, really. What we are attempting to do is describe as >faithfully as possible a physical media with logical data in a purely >logical form. The goal would be that the physical media could be >re-created from the imagefile if need be. The parameters of the physcial >media are specified so that this can be possible. > >> My earlier point of separating the data and the format information >> allows a single file (that would not be much bigger that the one >> described below) to contain multiple platform specific files that can be >> "read" by a simple utility that does not require any knowledge of the OS >> or the platform. > >I'm not quite understanding you here. Or maybe I am. An image in the >format shown below could be read by any emulator. Making sense of the >data with respect to that emulator is a different issue altogether, but it >does make it possible for, say, a Northstar Horizon emulator to load up an >Apple ][ disk image and then try to access it. > >Anyway, I don't think I am quite getting the point you are trying to make. > > >> <MEDIA TYPE=FLOPPY SIZE=5.25 SIDES=1 DENSITY=SINGLE FORMAT=GCR TRACKS=35 >> SECTORS=16 SECTORSIZE=256> >> >> <VOLUME>Apple ][ System Disk</VOLUME> >> >> </MEDIA> >> >> >> <DATA> >> <TRACK 0><SECTOR 0> >> >> HERE WOULD BE THE ASCII HEX DATA FOR TRACK 0, SECTOR 0 >> >> </SECTOR></TRACK> >> >> ... >> >> <TRACK 34><SECTOR 15> >> >> HERE WOULD BE THE ASCII HEX DATA FOR TRACK 34, SECTOR 15 >> >> </SECTOR></TRACK> >> </DATA> > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > >

21 years, 7 months

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Searching for SunOS 4.1.3

by mross666＠hotmail.com

>I am looking for a copy of SunOS 4.1.3, preferably version C. Your wish is my command: http://www.corestore.org/solaris1.1.2.zip Download, unzip, burn the enclosed ISO image. Bootable CD. I (and some of my Xerox Buddies) had exactly the same problem trying to ressurect Xerox GVX - the Xerox Mesa/Viewpoint emulator (in effect) for X. Wanted a very particular version of SunOS (think it also runs on AIX but don't quote me on that). (If anyone wants to play with this stuff, you can also grab http://www.corestore.org/GVXv1_0.zip - or http://www.corestore.org/gvwin21.zip for the M$ windoze version - win 9x *only*) Mike http://www.corestore.org

21 years, 7 months

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TKQ50 proms

by Adrian＠beovax.co.uk

Yeah, I saw that somewhere in amongst the other 530 messages I downloaded yesterday :) > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull > Sent: 13 August 2004 10:48 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: TKQ50 proms > > > On Aug 12 2004, 20:23, Witchy wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org > > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull > > > > I'm looking for ROMs (or ROM images would be better) for a TQK50 > > > controller. The ROMs I want are 23-330E5 and 23-331E5. > Can anyone > > > help? > > > > Yep, I'm sure we've got a TQK50 on the shelves in stores; I can pull > it > > and dump the ROMs for you. > > Thanks, but I've now got several copies of both sets of TQK50 > ROMs (23-248E5/23-249E5 and 23-330E5/23-331E5). > > I did mail the list to say I had them now, but perhaps it got > lost amongst the archive messages :-) > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York >

21 years, 7 months

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TKQ50 proms

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Aug 12 2004, 20:23, Witchy wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull > > I'm looking for ROMs (or ROM images would be better) for a > > TQK50 controller. The ROMs I want are 23-330E5 and 23-331E5. > > Can anyone help? > > Yep, I'm sure we've got a TQK50 on the shelves in stores; I can pull it > and dump the ROMs for you. Thanks, but I've now got several copies of both sets of TQK50 ROMs (23-248E5/23-249E5 and 23-330E5/23-331E5). I did mail the list to say I had them now, but perhaps it got lost amongst the archive messages :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 7 months

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He shoots... he scores!

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Aug 12 2004, 12:05, Jay West wrote: > Just obtained an M4 Data tape drive, model 9914 (800/1600/3200/6250)... just pulled from working service...desktop enclosure... $50 bucks :) > > I believe it's Differential, not single ended. I haven't kept up with PC technology (hooking this to a PC). Is this older Differential the same as LVD? I believe it had a centronics 50 pin connector labeled "differential". I'm wondering what SCSI card I can use with this... Adaptec 2940? No, older "differential" is not the same as Low-Voltage Differential. It's often referred to as HVD (though that term didn't appear until later, once LVD entered the scene). LVD devices can (almost always) work with single-ended controllers, because it's supposed to recognise the Diffsense signal (grounded for SE) -- hence you often see labels "LVD/SE" -- but the same is *not* true for HVD. Connecting HVD to LVD or SE won't work, and may let out the Magic Smoke forkm either or both devices. 2940 is SE or LVD; the HVD equivalent is 2944 (3944 is also HVD). There are a few on Ebay right now. I just bought one; I have a similar problem. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 7 months

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Moving Image Archive Standard discussion to new mailing list

by vcf＠siconic.com

I'm officially moving this discussion to the new mailing list Roger just set up for it. The mailto: address is: ccarchive(a)list.30below.com For anyone who's familiar with the qmail/ezmlm-idx combo, you'll know what to do... ;-) For those who are not, here's how to sub/unsub to/from the list: To subscribe, send an empty email to: ccarchive-subscribe(a)list.30below.com you will receive a confirmation message, just click reply and send. To unsubscribe, send an empty email to: ccarchive-unsubscribe(a)list.30below.com you will receive a confirmation message, just click reply and send. I'll be taking a day or so to re-cap all the messages I've saved, taking the highlights and condensing them into a set of notes, and then posting a message to start off more formal discussions of the project. I'll also create a web page from the VCF website that contains a spec-in-progress for people to review and comment on. I hope to see a lot of people joining in! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

21 years, 7 months

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New list for media archive info...

by zmerch＠30below.com

Just to let you know, I've created a mailing list so we can offload the discussion of the media archive format/specification jazz... The mailto: address is: ccarchive(a)list.30below.com For anyone who's familiar with the qmail/ezmlm-idx combo, you'll know what to do... ;-) For those who are not, here's how to sub/unsub to/from the list: To subscribe, send an empty email to: ccarchive-subscribe(a)list.30below.com you will receive a confirmation message, just click reply and send. To unsubscribe, send an empty email to: ccarchive-unsubscribe(a)list.30below.com you will receive a confirmation message, just click reply and send. To read the list FAQ (which has not yet been modified from the default -- I'm working on it), send an empty email to: ccarchive-faq(a)list.30below.com you will receive a reply message with the FAQ. For general list function help, send an empty email to: ccarchive-help(a)list.30below.com you will receive a much more detailed email listing more of the list-server's features (including retrieving emails from the archive & other things) If you have any questions, you can email Sellam or myself -- I have also aliased the email address: ccarchive-owner(a)list.30below.com to go to my main email address, so you can use that as well. The list is being archived, but on our mailserver which is not currently running a webserver daemon. Until I work out email-address munging (should take a week, maybe less) web-based retrieval/viewing of the messages won't be possible. Mailing list retrieval functions will be, however. Laterz! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch(a)30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade?????????????

21 years, 7 months

1
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rarest computers

by tyger69＠chartermi.net

Are we counting one-off homebrews, or just production models. Surely a one-of-a-kind would have to be the rarest kind of all. --T Jam the computer...trash every lethal machine in the land! --Timothy Leary

21 years, 7 months

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