- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Macinosh Classic RJ11 keyboard and mouse

by Jm4zn＠aol.com

Do you still have that Mac Classic RJ11 keyboard and mouse for sale for $5 plus shipping? Thanks, Jeanette

21 years, 6 months

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personal iris on ebay

by williams.dan＠gmail.com

There are 3 on one auction going for ?15 at the moment. Collection from Brighton http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1486&item=57224653… Dan

21 years, 6 months

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Need to know out of area attendance to VCF 7.0

by vcf＠siconic.com

Sorry for the interruption... I need some help from the folks who are planning to attend VCF 7.0 from out of the area and will be staying in a hotel. I'm currently negotiating with the Residence Inn (Marriott) for a room block. These rooms should be every bit as good as the Marriott in Burlington, if not better, as they are all "residence" rooms (studio arrangement with internet access, full breakfast, etc.) The room rate being proposed is $79 per night. I need to get a very good idea of how many people plan to attend because they are trying to get me to commit to a certain number of rooms that I will be responsible for paying for if they don't get filled. Please contact me directly <vcf(a)vintage.org>. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

21 years, 6 months

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AVAILABLE ($$$): DEC RD54-A MFM disk

by waltje＠pdp11.nl

Hi, I have one of the above available. It wont be free (given their ePay-value) but for list members, I wont be charging quite as much as I'd do on ePay. Location: Holland - shipping probably wont be good for it... Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje(a)pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA

21 years, 6 months

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Arix 800

by kenziem＠sympatico.ca

Does anyone know anything about these? Google brings up 1 site in the Netherlands. The hard drives have been pulled and it is taking up space in my garage. Does anyone want it? -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 Looking for: PICMG backplane Open Source Weekend http://www.osw.ca

21 years, 6 months

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Email client for older machines? (need help)

by cb＠mythtech.net

>My ISP has just "upgraded" their email server to be completely incompatible >with my client - basically the POP server cannot not be determined from >the POP account name anymore, and since my ancient client "figures out" >the server from the account name, it cannot connect. I assume you already tried doing username@domain@pop.server and that failed (it actually works on some clients, any that parse from the back to the front it will work on). The other thing to try is, many of the ISPs that require this kind of setup (where the username is really username@domain) will accept an alternate character in place of the @ sign. Commonly it is % but has also been known to work with / or . or ? or any number of other symbols. Try replacing the first @ (the one on the username pair) with some other symbol and see if it accepts it. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

21 years, 6 months

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HowdoIturnthisthingoffforafewdays?

by millenniumfalcon＠cableone.net

I cannot for the life of me find the pause switch for this mail list. Can any one help?? Original Message: ----------------- From: ghldbrd(a)ccp.com Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:30:52 -0500 (CDT) To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Anyone selling 5.25" blank Apple or Atari disks? I got some NOS from a local computer dealer for nothing, but I'm hanging on to them for dear life. You might try checking some of the smaller office supply outfits and/or Goodwill/Salvaation Army stores. These are turning into very rare items now. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO > Looking for about 10 5.25" blank Apple II or Atari 800 compatible > diskettes...just need something to play around with... > > Pete > pbmain(a)wideopenwest.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .

21 years, 6 months

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7-track tape question

by chris.muller＠mullermedia.com

Paul, Thanks for your insights. I found some useful background info here: http://keemiarelva.tehas.ee/asjad/telecomi%20plaat/Kompuuterelektroonika/ These docs are in English, written (or at least compiled) in the early 80's. I'd be curious if anyone knows the original source for them. In any case, see the top of page 9-11 in the file 14091_ch9.pdf. It says "In addition to lateral parity, many units also use a longitudinal parity check." That seems to imply that some didn't. ???? best regards, Chris Muller Muller Media Conversions 32 Broadway, suite 1214 New York, NY 10004 http://www.mullermedia.com 212-344-0474 or 800-OLD2NEW

21 years, 6 months

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Email client for older machines? (need help)

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

Hi Guys, I know this is a OT, but I could really use some help, and I figure this group is the most likely to be using a setup similar to mine... My ISP has just "upgraded" their email server to be completely incompatible with my client - basically the POP server cannot not be determined from the POP account name anymore, and since my ancient client "figures out" the server from the account name, it cannot connect. Can anyone recommend a decent/simple email program that runs under either DOS or Window3 (NOT win32!!!) that has the ability to let you specify a incoming mail server separate from the POP account? Until I find something, I can only access this list (and all other email) via a web based reader (very slow on dial-up and inpossible to do a decent reply). Please help! Regards, Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .

21 years, 6 months

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Electromechanical Pong

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Apologies if someone's mentioned this one before. Quite possibly the coolest gadget I've seen in a long time, though: http://www.cyberniklas.de/pongmechanik/indexen.html cheers, Jules -- "We've had a lot of loonies around this place, but you're the first one who thought the sunrise was made out of stale beer. Now are you going to pick up your flute and leave, or shall I part your hair with this crowbar?"

21 years, 6 months

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University of Michigan Property Depot report

by MGemeny＠pgcps.org

Jason McBrien wrote: >Also, a full-length ISA card with a bunch >of NCR chips, and the back half covered with a RF shield. The only connector >was a F-type screw connector (CATV style) which leads me to belive it's an >old TV tuner card, but I don't think NCR is known for multimedia chipsets, >and the RF shielded area was at the back of the card instead of right next >to the connector. Any ideas? That sounds like an old NCR WaveLan card. The original was before the 802.11 standards. It operated in the 900MHz ISM band and was basicaly 2 Megabit wireless network card, compatable only with others like it. NCR sold the product line to Lucent at about the time the standards were adopted, as I recall. Hope this helps, Mike Gemeny

21 years, 6 months

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Email client for older machines? (need help)

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

Hi Roger, Are you talking about "Eudora Pro 3"? - if so, I have a legit copy, but I didn't try it yet because the manual shows just a "POP3 account" field in the host setup - I need a separate "incoming mail host" field, and the POP3 username must be able to contain am "@xxx.yyy" which is DIFFERENT >from the configured host (it gets sent as part of the login string apparently). Do you know if Eudora3 actually supports such a misconfigured server setup? Original Message: ----------------- From: Roger Merchberger zmerch(a)30below.com Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:06:44 -0400 To: dave04a(a)dunfield.com, cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Email client for older machines? (need help) Rumor has it that dave04a(a)dunfield.com may have mentioned these words: >Hi Guys, > >I know this is a OT, but I could really use some help, and I figure >this group is the most likely to be using a setup similar to mine... > >My ISP has just "upgraded" their email server to be completely incompatible >with my client - basically the POP server cannot not be determined from >the POP account name anymore, and since my ancient client "figures out" >the server from the account name, it cannot connect. > >Can anyone recommend a decent/simple email program that runs under either >DOS or Window3 (NOT win32!!!) that has the ability to let you specify a >incoming mail server separate from the POP account? This one should do it: http://www.eudora.com/email/archive/pro_email3/ If not, try here: http://www.pmail.com/overviews/ovw_winpmail.htm (you'll have to search thru all the 32-bit shiznit to get to the 16-bit schtuff -- scroll down near the bottom...) They still have a DOS version, as well. Hope this helps, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch(a)30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .

21 years, 6 months

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VCF 7.0 exhibitors needed

by vcf＠siconic.com

We need more exhibitors at the upcoming VCF 7.0. If you are planning to exhibit then now would be a good time to submit an entry ;) http://www.vintage.org/2004/main/exhibit.php -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

21 years, 6 months

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VCF East 2.0 photos now available!

by vcf＠siconic.com

Sorry for the delay, but without further ado: http://www.vintage.org/gallery.php?grouptag=VCFEAST20 Thanks to all the great exhibitors that made the 2nd VCF East a real blast! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

21 years, 6 months

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Altos 586 computer - Get it out of my garage!

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

A "guy" gave me an Altos 586 computer - no terminals. I don't think I want it, do you? It is a multi-user Xenix box(?) with an internal 10Meg(?) hard drive. It powers-up and spins-up, but I didn't hook-up a terminal to see if words come out. It is very heavy at 35 pounds. Currently near Santa Ana, CA. Steve. _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com

21 years, 6 months

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SCELBI peripherals

by jack.rubin＠ameritech.net

Does anyone have any information, drawings, pictures, prints, etc. relating to the alpha-numeric oscilloscope interface for the SCELBI 8-H beyond what is described in SCELBI's 1974 catalog? A copy of the page is on the web at http://users.techline.com/cmlove/scelbi/pg16.htm . I'm also looking for any info on other SCELBI peripherals - the same catalog describes a cassette tape interface. What about SCELBI software (on paper tape or in electronic form, I have the listings)? - Jack Rubin Wilmette, Illinois USA

21 years, 6 months

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terminet on ebay

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Don't know if anyone noticed it, but there is a really nice looking GE RCA Terminet 30 terminal on ebay. Quite sweet! Jay

21 years, 6 months

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Email client for older machines? (need help)

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

Hi Michael, Thanks - I'll take a look as soon as you have it posted - what is the site address? Regards, Dave Original Message: ----------------- From: msokolov(a)ivan.harhan.org (Michael Sokolov) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 04 22:58:54 GMT To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Email client for older machines? (need help) dave04a(a)dunfield.com wrote: > Can anyone recommend a decent/simple email program that runs under either > DOS or Window3 (NOT win32!!!) that has the ability to let you specify a > incoming mail server separate from the POP account? CWRU-PC/IP for DOS should do it. I have it on my old DOS machine, let me put it up on my FTP site and I'll post the path. MS -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .

21 years, 6 months

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SB180 problems

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

Major bummer! I don;t have a source listing but I do have a couple of working SB-180s. I can dump the EPROMs for you if need be. Joe At 03:55 PM 9/29/04 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, all: > > Does anyone on the list have a source listing (either original or >reconstructed) to the Circuit Cellar SB-180 monitor ROM? I did something >stupid to it a while back and I think I blew something on the board. Now, >when it boots up, instead of the banner I get what appears to be a >diagnostic code in binary. The documentation package I have neither has a >listing of the codes nor the ROM listing itself, and efforts to contact the >original author to have failed. > > Thanks in advance. > >Rich > >

21 years, 6 months

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osborne 1 - tan edition - 240VAC computer - condition unknown - it's yours.

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

"Someone" gave me an Osborne 1 (tan version) computer. It's very nice and in good condition, but it's 240VAC and I can't (or won't) try to energize it. Weighs about 25 pounds of course, and no, I won't ship it to the UK. Please pick it up if you can! Near Santa Ana, CA. Steve. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

21 years, 6 months

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ASR-33 repair parts

by djg＠pdp8online.com

> The pad on the print hammer has disintegrated and the underlying metal > has been pounding on the print cylinder. This has caused some of the > letters images to be deformed so that only the top half of the letter > prints. A new print cylinder would be virtually impossible to fabricate, > so I need to find a new or used one. With the new available it may not be worth the trouble but as long as the damage isn't too deep you can get it to print acceptably by filing the letters flat again, try printing and file again on the part of the letter that prints darkest until you get reasonably even printing.

21 years, 6 months

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Box of fan-fold computer paper - from CBM 1983 - It's yours.

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

People, I have a 30 pound box which contains three boxes of: " 9-1/2 X 11 stock smooth edge, 15 lb bond, 3000 count" fan-fold paper from 1983. Each of the three smaller boxes weigh 7 pounds, for 20 pounds total weight. It is the original cardboard shipping box, shipped >from CBM in PA, on 10/83 - cool. Currently near Santa Ana, CA - it's yours if you want it. _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com

21 years, 6 months

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Completely, entirely, utterly off-topic...

by news＠computercollector.com

As warned in the subject line, this couldn't be more off-topic if I tried! Having said that... I've got an extra ticket for Friday's "Vote for Change" concert down in Philadelphia. I'm looking for the face value ($75) -- the concert features Springsteen, REM, and John Fogarty. Please do NOT reply with a political message or to say you'd love to go but can't. And, please do not reply if MAYBE you can go but want to let me know Friday afternoon, or if you want to show up late (it starts at 7) or leave early or whatever -- I'm not about to get stuck with this ticket (and also don't want it to go to some bandwagon lame-ass fan whose favorite Springsteen song is "Secret Garden".) Okay, the diatribe is now complete. If you're vaguely in my area (north Jersey) and want to go, please reply OFF-LIST. Now returning to the regularly scheduled discussion of vintage computers... - Evan ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector E-mail Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit the museums directory and read about past events at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news(a)computercollector.com 550 readers and counting!

21 years, 6 months

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Email client for older machines? (need help)

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

CWRU-PC/IP for DOS can be downloaded via anonymous FTP from ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG in the directory /pub/micro/msdos/net. MS

21 years, 6 months

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Email client for older machines? (need help)

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

dave04a(a)dunfield.com wrote: > Can anyone recommend a decent/simple email program that runs under either > DOS or Window3 (NOT win32!!!) that has the ability to let you specify a > incoming mail server separate from the POP account? CWRU-PC/IP for DOS should do it. I have it on my old DOS machine, let me put it up on my FTP site and I'll post the path. MS

21 years, 6 months

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OT-ish: ImageMagick & PDF

by aek＠spies.com

I thought that TIFF-within-PDF meant that PDF was essentially a wrapper around the TIFFs, but I could be wrong. -- You are correct. This is exactly how Eric Smith's tumble program behaves. It is just a wrapper for jpgs and tiffs.

21 years, 6 months

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Relay computers - OR functionality - symbology

by melamy＠earthlink.net

>from a self documenting sense, it makes no sense... when someone can pick up a logic description and understand it WITHOUT having to figure out what each sytmbol means in the context of the usage, then it is simply more understandable. If I picked up something that had two binary numbers wiht a PLUS sign inbetween, I would not assume that it meant OR, only if you would dig further does the PLUS sign make sense. If you simply said OR, then there is no confusion and it is self documenting. I think Sellam was trying to make this point with regards to symbology. I agree with Sellam about the insanity part... The symbols are arbitrary and WORK as long as you have your language description at hand. -----Original Message----- From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwight.elvey(a)amd.com> Sent: Sep 28, 2004 3:07 PM To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Relay computers - OR functionality >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf(a)siconic.com> ---snip--- > >None, I just felt like pointing out that whoever decided to use the plus >sign for OR was most likely insane. Hi Actually from a mathematical sense, it does make sense. The OR operation can be mapped to the plus operation and the AND operation can be mapped to the multiply operation. One finds that when doing this, many mathematical rules correlate nicely. That is why it was done. Rules like associative and communicative make sense. It wasn't just wild insane mad men. When one understands the reasoning fully, one can except the choices made. It is just that in your schooling, you were never exposed to much Boolean algebra. That is too bad because so much of what we do with computers requires a level of understanding of how it works. Dwight

21 years, 6 months

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OT-ish: ImageMagick & PDF

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Does anyone here use ImageMagick to produce their PDF files of old documentation? I've got some scanned documentation here in TIFF format which I need to munge into a PDF file using 'convert'. Question is, will that result in loss of quality, or will the data for each frame be stored in the resulting PDF file using exactly the same colour depth and size of each input image? (I don't care if it uses a different compression, providing it's non-lossy) Last thing I want to do is store important data in a PDF file, only to find that it drops the quality - and so at a future time I can't get data of the input quality back out again! cheers Jules

21 years, 6 months

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AS/400 9404 and TWINAX questions...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Sep 29 2004, 18:02, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> wrote: > > > You're thinking of TIA 568, > > where pair 1 is 4+5 (blue), pair 2 is 3+6 (green), pair 3 is 1+2 > > (orange) abnd pair 4 is 7+8 (brown) > > No, pair 2 is orange and pair 3 is green (always), but TIA 568A and > 568B differ on whether orange pair 2 should go on 3+6 leaving 1+2 > for green pair 3 (568A) or vice-versa (568B). Everyone uses 568B. Oops, yes, you're correct. Orange *is* always pair 2. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 6 months

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SB180 problems

by uban＠ubanproductions.com

My SB-180 hasn't seen power in about 18 years. I could read the EPROM for you if you need a copy. I don't think that I have a ROM listing. This guy may have it: http://scott.squidliver.net/sb180/sb180-software.html --tom At 03:55 PM 9/29/2004 -0400, Cini, Richard wrote: >Hello, all: > > Does anyone on the list have a source listing (either original or >reconstructed) to the Circuit Cellar SB-180 monitor ROM? I did something >stupid to it a while back and I think I blew something on the board. Now, >when it boots up, instead of the banner I get what appears to be a >diagnostic code in binary. The documentation package I have neither has a >listing of the codes nor the ROM listing itself, and efforts to contact the >original author to have failed. > > Thanks in advance. > >Rich

21 years, 6 months

1
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SB180 problems

by RCini＠congressfinancial.com

Hello, all: Does anyone on the list have a source listing (either original or reconstructed) to the Circuit Cellar SB-180 monitor ROM? I did something stupid to it a while back and I think I blew something on the board. Now, when it boots up, instead of the banner I get what appears to be a diagnostic code in binary. The documentation package I have neither has a listing of the codes nor the ROM listing itself, and efforts to contact the original author to have failed. Thanks in advance. Rich

21 years, 6 months

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Harvard vs. vonNeuman

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "David V. Corbin" <dvcorbin(a)optonline.net> >>>> >>> >>>> Can you create self modifying code in any high level >>>> language, the kind of code where the application program >>>> actually changes it's own instructions? >>>> >>>> I know in C it is possible to pass an address of a function >>>> to a function, that's not really what I mean. >>>> > >Actually this is (sort of) becoming more common. One exciting feature of a >new platform by the software vendor who shall not be named, is that the >compiler is actually part of the runtime. This means that any program can >write source code to a string (or other structure) and compile and execute >it!!!!!! > Hi It was possible to do in early BASIC's that allowed a machine code subroutine calls. One input the code as data and then called it. Both LISP and Forth have the ability to, by program, compile code and then execute it. It is done more often in LISP. This is a different form of self modifying. Dwight

21 years, 6 months

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AS/400 9404 and TWINAX questions...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Sep 27 2004, 22:17, Tony Duell wrote: > > Good news: You could even make an Ethernet/Twinax single jack, if you're > > not running faster than 100Mbps ethernet, as they run 1/2 & 3/6 for their > > pairs -- just use 4/5 for twinax. > > > > Bad news: *Most* pre-built cables don't follow the standard as to where the > > twisted pairs should be - most just go 1/2 - 3/4 - 5/6 - 7/8 - and that's > > bad for both Ethernet & twinax. You'll wanna punch down and/or build your > > own cables if you're going to do this. > > What?!?!? > > I've made the odd 10baseT patch lead, and I was always careful to get 1/2 > as a pair and 3/6 as another pair (I think the other 2 pairs were 4/5 and > 7/8, but it;s been a long time..) Fiddling the wires into the RJ45 was a > pain, but I assumed it was necessary.... > > And you're telling me commercial cables get it wrong. I've hardly ever seen a commercial standard Cat3 / Cat4 / Cat5 /Cat5e cable that was miswired with split pairs. Telephone cables wired to the old USOC standard are different[1], but not usually fitted with RJ45 plugs, and flat cables are obviously not twisted pairs. Tony, I wouldn't have any qualms about buying commercial cables. If you do want to wire your own, the standard order (for TIA568B, which is the most common scheme) is white+orange, orange, white+green, blue, white+blue, green, white+brown, brown. [1] They're not paired as 1+2, 3+4, etc either. The first pair is the centre pins, the second pair is the two pins either side of centre, and so on, working outwards. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 6 months

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Code Generation .NET

by melamy＠earthlink.net

p-code never compiled down to native calls... .NET does -----Original Message----- From: emanuel stiebler <emu(a)ecubics.com> Sounds a hell like p-code, few years later ;-)

21 years, 6 months

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AS/400 9404 and TWINAX questions...

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> wrote: > You're thinking of TIA 568, > where pair 1 is 4+5 (blue), pair 2 is 3+6 (green), pair 3 is 1+2 > (orange) abnd pair 4 is 7+8 (brown) No, pair 2 is orange and pair 3 is green (always), but TIA 568A and 568B differ on whether orange pair 2 should go on 3+6 leaving 1+2 for green pair 3 (568A) or vice-versa (568B). Everyone uses 568B. MS

21 years, 6 months

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7-track tape question

by chris.muller＠mullermedia.com

Hi everybody. This is something a computer geezer like me should know. But I don't. I've read some things that seem to imply that *some* of the oldest drive/formatters did NOT write a longitudinal parity frame at the end of a block. (They did have horizontal parity, of course.) If it's true then a drive reading such tapes would not have an easy way of telling whether frames had been dropped during a read. Does this ring true to anybody out there? Any observations welcome. best regards, Chris Muller Muller Media Conversions 32 Broadway, suite 1214 New York, NY 10004 http://www.mullermedia.com 212-344-0474 or 800-OLD2NEW

21 years, 6 months

2
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Code Generation .NET

by melamy＠earthlink.net

The comment I made was based on another person's view that p-code was intrepreted and so was .NET - apples and apples sort of thing... I don't recall any Microsoft product that created p-code which could be executed without compiling and then you could compile the p-code and execute that too. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Battle <frustum(a)pacbell.net> Sent: Sep 29, 2004 8:46 AM To: General Discussion@null, On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>, null@null Subject: Re: Code Generation .NET Steve Thatcher wrote: > p-code never compiled down to native calls... .NET does That sounded like an assertion waiting to be disproven. 15 seconds with google produced this link: http://www.threedee.com/jcm/psystem/ Heath Z-80 UCSD p-System, six 5 1/4" disks: "SYSTEM 1," "SYSTEM 2," "ZINT," "PASCAL," "UTILS," "Native code generator NZ84BP". That was contemporaneous. Something more recent: http://www.pascal-central.com/pcode.html Spend a few more minute and find more links.

21 years, 6 months

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AS/400 9404 and TWINAX questions...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Sep 29 2004, 8:23, John Foust wrote: > At 02:02 AM 9/29/2004, you wrote: > >I've hardly ever seen a commercial standard Cat3 / Cat4 / Cat5 /Cat5e > >cable that was miswired with split pairs. Telephone cables wired to > >the old USOC standard are different[1], but not usually fitted with > >RJ45 plugs, and flat cables are obviously not twisted pairs. > > I agree, and I suspect any straight-through RJ-45 cable > was for a telephone system, not networking. Perhaps > Sellam knows examples. ISDN S-bus sometimes uses flat cables for the last piece of flex between wall and device (you shouldn't, because 1+2 and 7+8 are sometimes used for phantom power, but many devices only use Tx and Rx which are 4+5 and 3+6). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 6 months

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Relay computers - OR functionality - symbology

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Sep 29 2004, 9:48, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Pete Turnbull may have mentioned these words: > >On Sep 28 2004, 15:52, Steve Thatcher wrote: > >Do you expect to pick up a book on some > >strange programming language or some new science and understand the > >syntax without some explanation? > > If you do, this is the language for you: > > http://www.catb.org/~esr/intercal/ It's actually quite a popular and well-known language amongst the systems programmers at York! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 6 months

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Looking for DW08-B drawings or info

by vrs＠msn.com

I recently acquired a DW08-B backplane. I am interested in reconditioning it, but I can't find drawings for it online. (I found the drawings for the DW08-A, thanks.) Does anyone have drawings for this lying around? (In a pinch, even a module locator chart would help, because then I could trace the wiring :-).) Thanks, Vince

21 years, 6 months

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Relay computers - OR functionality - symbology

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Patrick/VCM SysOp" <patrick(a)vintagecomputermarketplace.com> > >> Why didn't they use * or X for AND then? > >The period is a convenient substitution for a dot that was used in math to >indicate multiplication (the "real" symbol is usually represented as more >vertically centered within the character cell). I have some books that also >use "x", but that character is again a more (or sometimes less) stylized >glyph than the simple upper- or lowercase "X". > >By the way, that plus (or) symbol in those same books is often a plus inside >a circle. So I suspect the use of plain-old-plus is again a convenient >substitution into ASCII. > >Patrick Hi Most times, a plus in a circle is to indicate an exclusive-or. Dwight

21 years, 6 months

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Code Generation .NET

by melamy＠earthlink.net

actually, .NET is a platform where individual compilers (C#, J#, VB, Fortran, etc) generate an abstract code that is compiled and run in the .NET runtime. C# can not run and execute Cobol for example, but you can freely intermix classes that each could be written in any language. Any class no matter what language it is written in can be called by a class or call another class. A class may not be compiled until runtime (JIT - just in time), but once it is compiled then it is available immediately. best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- From: Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk(a)yahoo.co.uk> Hazy memory, but I thought .net was typically C# in a distributed environment - in other words, Microsoft's rip-off of Java and JINI with the added "benefit" of vendor lock-in :-) I thought C# was *usually* interpreted, just with the option of compilation if needs be (just as Java bytecode can be compiled to native code if desired). Fair call on the compiler included with the OS though. > Also the code generator is capable of supporting different .Net languages. > This means that a C# program can write and excute Cobol code, or a Visual > Basic program could write Fortran code and execute it. Now that is interesting. A developer's nightmare, but interesting :-) seeya, Jules

21 years, 6 months

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Relay computers - OR functionality - symbology

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Sep 28 2004, 15:52, Steve Thatcher wrote: > from a self documenting sense, it makes no sense... > > when someone can pick up a logic description and understand it WITHOUT having to figure out what each sytmbol means in the context of the usage, then it is simply more understandable. If I picked up something that had two binary numbers wiht a PLUS sign inbetween, I would not assume that it meant OR, only if you would dig further does the PLUS sign make sense. If you simply said OR, then there is no confusion and it is self documenting. I think Sellam was trying to make this point with regards to symbology. > > I agree with Sellam about the insanity part... The symbols are > arbitrary and WORK as long as you have your language description at > hand. I don't -- agreed the symbols are to *some* extent arbitrary, but I agree with Dwight. If they're arbitrary, then +/. are just as good as |/&. The symbols Dwight used are part of *the* standard for logic expression in Boolean mathematics, and make good sense if you think about it (or know a little about it). The overloading of multiple context-sensitive meanings for things is common in mathematics, programming, and lots of other places. You just have to learn to live with it. If you learn a new discipline or language, you have to learn the semantics (just as a physicist knows that stress and strain are two different things while the man in the street, having read his OED, "knows" they're the same). Do you expect to pick up a book on some strange programming language or some new science and understand the syntax without some explanation? As for confusing addition and the logical OR function with binary numbers, you don't normally perform logic on binary numbers, only on bits representing truth values. Describing "1011 OR 0101" as part of a logic equation is sloppy; it's actually four put together. And lastly, AND and OR are just two binary logic functions. There are fourteen more, if remember my first year maths, all with ASCII symbols, all of which predate C. I sympathise with those who've not seen it before. It can be hard to understand at first; logic is not common sense. It is, however, logical :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 6 months

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Harvard vs. vonNeuman

by zmerch＠30below.com

Rumor has it that David V. Corbin may have mentioned these words: > >>> >>> > >>> Can you create self modifying code in any high level > >>> language, the kind of code where the application program > >>> actually changes it's own instructions? > >>> > >>> I know in C it is possible to pass an address of a function > >>> to a function, that's not really what I mean. > >>> > >Actually this is (sort of) becoming more common. One exciting feature of a >new platform by the software vendor who shall not be named, Why not? Some of us aren't "in the trenches" so to speak WRT newer software & languages.... I would be interested to know which platform that actually was! > is that the compiler is actually part of the runtime. So, in other words... it's an interpreter. Novel idea, that! ;-P > This means that any program can >write source code to a string (or other structure) and compile and execute >it!!!!!! Lots of languages have eval() nowadays... most people think the use of it is as evil as self-modifying code. Dunno, if you ask me -- it sounds like "yet another gaping security hole waiting to happen" to me... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Randomization is better!!! If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.

21 years, 6 months

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Harvard vs. vonNeuman

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 05:07 PM 9/28/2004, David V. Corbin wrote: >To the best of my knowledge, the Microsoft .NET platform is the first >run-time environment [not development environment] in which a compiler, >linker and all of the associated capabilities are included. If you have a >windows machine [XP, 2K] and have applied the windowsupdates, then all of >these tools are already resident on your machines! I guess that would explain why it's a 20 or 30 meg download, once you've got the main system and the 11 meg patches. And they're pushing it out as fast as they can - it's part of WinXP SP2, no? - John

21 years, 6 months

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AS/400 9404 and TWINAX questions...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Sep 29 2004, 0:10, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 29 Sep 2004, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > [1] They're not paired as 1+2, 3+4, etc either. The first pair is the > > centre pins, the second pair is the two pins either side of centre, and > > so on, working outwards. > > The third and fourth pairs would not be "so on". They'd be the pairs on > either side of the center, since Orange+White/Orange and Brown+White/Brown > are not split. Er, no, in a USOC-wired RJ45 pair 1 is pins 4+5, pair 2 is pins 3+6, pair 3 is pins 2+7, pair 4 is pins 1+8. You're thinking of TIA 568, where pair 1 is 4+5 (blue), pair 2 is 3+6 (green), pair 3 is 1+2 (orange) abnd pair 4 is 7+8 (brown), as I wrote above the bit you quoted. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 6 months

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simh simulation speed

by RCini＠congressfinancial.com

IIRC from Bob's speech at VCFe2.0, he indicated that simulation speed is effectively unregulated, because why would you want to waste the benefits of a speedy host machine. However, I could imagine that with certain hardware simulations, cycle-by-cycle emulation might be required. On my Altair32 emulator, I have it set to run at the prototypical 2MHz speed (8080A). But, I can unthrottle it and let it run at full speed, which on my Pentium 4/2.8GHz would result in an 8080 running at about 80MHz (+/-). This is accomplished by managing the number of prototypical CPU cycles executed per 10ms timeslice. Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tom Jennings Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 3:24 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only Subject: simh simulation speed I haven't had a chance to get back and debug, but is it true that simh does NOT simulate the target machine's execution speed? I wrote a simple 'sum all words in track N' program for the LGP and it completed as soon as I hit return! It should have taken many seconds... I did RTFM, so no reference to it, but I haven't had time to go look at the source. Got lazy and decided to post instead of research (typical, huh :-)

21 years, 6 months

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Harvard vs. vonNeuman

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

spc(a)conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) wrote: > Okay, figured out why my code didn't work, and it's not due to writing to > the wrong location (although I suspect that still is a problem) but that > under Unix the code pages are marked read-only so of course it core dumped. You do know about -N option to ld, right? That would make an OMAGIC executable whose code is not protected. MS

21 years, 6 months

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Marconi catalog

by aw288＠osfn.org

Can anyone use an old Marconi Instruments test equipment catalog? I have an old edition here (NA7) that needs to go away. Inside are the usual picures and descriptions of the gear (much like the big HP catalogs). Of interest to those on this list are the ATE equipments - there are some nice shots and data for their PDP-11 (the original) based test sets. William Donzelli aw288(a)osfn.org

21 years, 6 months

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FA: DEC FlIP CHIP boards & more

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

I just finished putting some stuff on E-bay that this group might be interested in including some single height DEC FLIP CHIP wirewrap cards, a HP-12C calculator, a box and manual for the HP-11C calculator and a bunch of ROM and RAM cartridges for the Tektronix 83x Communications Analyzers. Those of you that are making your own cartridges for the Tektronix 124x Logic Analyzers will be interested to know that these cartridges will also fit the 124x LA if you trim the locator keys. See <http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/tek-roms/case-keys.jpg>. I will be adding some core memory boards as soon as I have a chance (probably a couple of days). <http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQgotopageZ1QQsassZrigdonjQQsosortorderZ1QQsosort propertyZ1> Joe

21 years, 6 months

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