- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Hi Both right but it really depends on usage. Dwight >From: "der Mouse" <mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca> > >>>> Wired-OR will work fine for open-collector output TTL. >>> Well, except you generally get wired-AND, because the open >>> collectors are generally NPN collectors with emitters to ground, not >>> PNP collectors with emitters to Vcc. >> That is twice you've tried to make this point. If a signal is viewed >> as active low, then what is going on is logically wired-or. > >Yes...but would you call (? of) a 7408 an OR gate if it happens to be >manipulating such signals? That's the sense in which I say it's >wired-AND: the resulting signal is what you'd get from feeding the same >logic levels (except with pullups, or non-OC outputs) into the gate >usually called an AND gate. > >/~\ The ASCII der Mouse >\ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca >/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B >

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Kinetic's FastPath 4's

by brad＠heeltoe.com

Ok, here's the FastPath software I promised: (what an odd trick of fate that *I* would be doing this; yee gods! How come no asks for gatorbox software? :-) http://www.heeltoe.com/download/shiva/FastPath/ download/shiva/FastPath/shiva-ftp/distrib/fastpath/9.2/NewFeatures.txt download/shiva/FastPath/shiva-ftp/distrib/fastpath/9.2/fp92.sea.bin I can't say what runs in a FP-4 vs a FP-5, sorry. You might start with the 8.1.1 on a FP-4. Also, in case it's not obvious I'd use something like "unstuffit" to deal with the .sea.bin files. -brad

21 years, 3 months

2
2
0 0

AIM65 with unknown second board

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Afternoon... We were given an AIM65 the other day (first time I've seen a real one) in a rather fetching custom blue case that has a carry handle on one edge. It was apparently used by Xerox for some for of magnetic media testing way back when; it still carries a Xerox asset tag on the back. Unfortunately in between the previous owner saying they wanted it when it was retired and them going to collect it, it got thrown into a skip - so there's some damage to the case and the red display cover needs replacing. Luckily the electronics survived, apart from one broken switch. Curious thing about the machine is that it has a second board mounted under the main board, containing quite a bit of circuitry. I was wondering whether this second board is something custom produced by Xerox (there are no marks indicating manufacturer) or whether it was an official off-the-shelf expansion board... Quick and dirty pics at: http://www.moosenet.demon.co.uk/temp/comps/aim65/ Wish I'd brought the machine home now, but I can get a list of the main ICs on that second board when I'm next at the musuem if needs be. Note that there seems to be no RAM on the AIM65 board itself, - just ROM - but there are 16 4116 chips on the expansion board. cheers Jules

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Intel bubble memory kit, BPK70A (7110A)

by tomj＠wps.com

They're all megabit devices. So whattaya call these things, megabubbles? I got a dozen or so of these kits, new unused and unopened, mostly, they include all the oddball support chips and the funny muonting brackets for the bubblebucket. 1984 and 1985 date codes. Any interest in them? I'll likely eBay them for money, but I'm willing to trade (I need a working 8" double-sided floppy drive, ugly OK). Anyone have, or willing to work up, a PCB to make them usable? Parallel interface would be nice.

21 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

NEC APC III, anyone have one?

by dlearyfun＠adelphia.net

I too have an original APC with graphics board and all documentation. It still works. Dick Leary

21 years, 3 months

4
4
0 0

Quadlink by Quadram - put an Apple II in you PC

by CCTalk＠catcorner.org

OK, this came to me by a rather circuitous route, but I now have a new in the box Quadlink by Quadram. It includes all the cables, software, and documentation (the warranty card is still there). This card is essentially and Apple II/Apple II+ on an 8-bit ISA plug in board. I don't know how compatible it is with today's PC equipment. Anyway, the point of this is: Does anyone want this? Contact me off list if so. Shipping would be from New Jersey, USA. I'm always looking for old Tandy items in trade too. Kelly

21 years, 3 months

5
5
0 0

Error codes for 11/73

by Richardkurtz＠prodigy.net

I'm sure this is a familiar question to many - does anyone have a list of the two-digit codes displayed on the PDP11-73 during power-up ? I am resurrecting a dormant unit which stops at '1' (I have only the CPU and memory installed in the backplane) I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad code. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, David Comley Dave, the Error Code 1 = cpu error 1. Make sure that your cpu diag switches are correctly set 2. Make sure your +5vdc and +12vdc power supply is good 3. Make sure your eproms do not have any bent pins J Richardkurtz(a)prodigy.net

21 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Importing binary files without removable storage nor non-bundled software (was: TKermitFTP

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 6 2005, 9:30, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 6 Jan 2005, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > > >And the programmers were not smart enough to figure a way around this > > >because...why? > > > > It would have been trivial for them to adopt a simple > > block transfer for serial binary at the begining. I suspect > > that the reason they didn't do this was that they didn't > > wan't people to transfer programs from machine to machine. > Your theory would make sense in an alternate universe where the floppy > disk was never invented ;) I think the reason is simpler than Dwight implies, and more along the lines of John's comment. Microsoft were in a hurry to make DOS work for IBM, and there was simply no perceived need to add the functionality. If you look at CP/M-related and Apple ][ systems, you see they had (er, have) the same problem: no out-of-band way to signal end of file. Several versions of kermit for Z80 machines and Apple ][s therefore come with a little program to talk from a remote machine to the serial port, start debug or equivalent, and stuff an ASCII-converted copy of kermit over which debug then saves in executable format. I've still got the ASCII HEX files for an Apple ][. As far as I remmeber there are two ways to get Kermit-65 onto an Apple. The first way is to type "IN#2" to set he serial card as the input, and then on the remote machine give the command to send the main file. It starts with "CALL -151" to jump into the monitor, and then follows that with a series of lines like "E00:38 A5"... which cause those bytes to be stored in memory; then it calls the code it's just stuffed in, and that in turn loads a huge number of much more compact (no addresses, no spaces) lines, before finally issuing a "3D0G" to get back to BASIC. Ditto for the serial card driver's HEX file. Finally you type "PR#6" so output goes to the disk, and you EXEC the two HEX files to create the actual binary as a disk file. Easy ;-) The other way is superficially simpler; you type IN#2, transmit a small file which creates a BASIC program and runs it; that program receives and saves the two HEX files, and then tells you what to do with them. Seems slightly simpler, but actually takes a lot longer, as I recall. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 3 months

5
5
0 0

RTL Logic

by melamy＠earthlink.net

actually you can wire-or with diodes as long as you pay attention to the "higher" low logic level. Naturally, the voltage is not TTL compatible, but I have used that technique also. As for totem pole vs open collector, that is why I mentioned reading the specs rather than getting more technical with output types. I don't think anyone is going to whip out their TTL chips and start connecting them up to see which one works and which one doesn't. -----Original Message----- From: Scott Stevens <chenmel(a)earthlink.net> Sent: Jan 7, 2005 10:33 PM To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: RTL Logic On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 12:59:57 -0800 (PST) Tom Jennings <tomj(a)wps.com> wrote: > On Fri, 7 Jan 2005, Steve Thatcher wrote: > > > dirt has been known to be found in most places in the world... > > > > doing a wired-or and wired-and depends on reading IC specifications > > for specific chips. It is what design engineers do... > > Sorry for being so obtuse! Phrase meant: "wire OR/etc was very > common in RTL". > > I tried wired-OR once in TTL, didn't like the results :-) > Wired-OR will work fine for open-collector output TTL. It will fail miserably with totem-pole output parts. A 'battle of the transistors' will ensue and one output or another will win.

21 years, 3 months

3
4
0 0

Quadlink by Quadram - put an Apple II in you PC

by CCTalk＠catcorner.org

> -----Original Message----- > From: Kelly Leavitt [mailto:CCTalk@catcorner.org] > > > OK, this came to me by a rather circuitous route, but I now > have a new in > the box Quadlink by Quadram. It includes all the cables, software, and > documentation (the warranty card is still there). > > This card is essentially and Apple II/Apple II+ on an 8-bit > ISA plug in > board. I don't know how compatible it is with today's PC > equipment. Anyway, > the point of this is: Does anyone want this? Contact me off > list if so. > Shipping would be from New Jersey, USA. > > I'm always looking for old Tandy items in trade too. > > > Kelly > Man, sure seemed to be a lot of interest in this. Maybe I should have tried EPay ;-) Anyway, someone that has been helping me a lot with getting an old Quadra running has asked for this. It is officially his. I guess I should have asked him privately FIRST. In the same lot is a bunch of other interesting stuff. I have to inventory it yet, and see what is running, but I know of at least: A 5155 (one of the luggables) with dual floppies, an IBM PC reference set A 5150 (with dual floppies and a 20M drive (with cassette port)), lots of NIB software and docs. A largish 8 bit memory expansion card. A "turbo" XT Clone Anyway, I'll be listing this stuff as available once I have inventoried it and know what is running and what is not. As for the Tandy stuff I collect: My main interest is in the old II/12/16/6000 line running Xenix Thanks for all the interest. Kelly

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Fwd: Newish Parts

by dhbarr＠gmail.com

Eep, can't believe I left that out: On closer inspection, I have: * A80386DX-20 (SX214) * A80386DX-20 IV (SX217) * A80386DX-25 IV (SX133) * A80386DX-25 IV (SX218) -dhbarr. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Tothwolf <tothwolf(a)concentric.net> Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 02:06:09 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Newish Parts To: "David H. Barr" <dhbarr(a)gmail.com> On Sat, 8 Jan 2005, David H. Barr wrote: > I have sitting on my desk, taking up space: > > * 4 Intel i386 processors What speeds are the cpus? I'd like to find some 387 math processors eventually, but I've not been looking very hard. -Toth

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

"Antique" Apple II e Computer, Manuals, Books

by jesnyder＠iastate.edu

Greetings I am doing some housecleaning, and re-discovered that I have an old Apple II e computer (with monitor, disk drive, and keyboard), and a big box of software, manuals, and books for it. I am not a home computer hobbyist (just a computer user) and have no use for it, but it would seem a shame to just throw all the stuff into the dumpster. I am not really trying to sell it or anything, just see that it gets to someone who is interested in it. How can I find if there is someone interested in it, who I could give it to? Thanks for your help, John jesnyder(a)iastate.edu (515)-294-4312 (university) (515)-232-8824 (home)

21 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

RTL Logic

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

I have old Motorola and TI data books from the period that do have RTL chips in them. There is no chance of scanning them, they are several thousand pages long (3" of very think paper), bound, and odd-size. But if anyone needs info on a very few specific chips, I could look them up.

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

RTL Logic

by melamy＠earthlink.net

well, I design by specifications. The TI specs say that the short circuit current for 74xx series is 18ma which is also not within specs for the general output current capability of 16 ma. Transient shorts like this are a great way to generate power supply noise. I guess I never applied any type of "preliminary hackery" to systems I have developed. -----Original Message----- From: der Mouse <mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca> Sent: Jan 9, 2005 5:15 AM To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: RTL Logic Except that totem-pole outputs usually have just a transistor to ground, but a transistor and resistor to Vcc. This means that the one driving the signal low will win, and, provided not too many outputs are wired together, it will sink the current without damage. (I've actually built circuits that depended on this, though I've never liked it and never considered it suitable for more than preliminary hackery. I've also always never done it for anything where the conflict will last more than nanoseconds, as when building an ~R/~S flip-flop out of two cross-coupled inverters rather than the more usual NANDs or NORs.)

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Bondwell SX

by CCour79992＠aol.com

Greetings: I saw on the webpage a question and answer exchange about putting an external monitor on the Bondwell 386 310SX. I also have the same problem, but my screen has completely died so I cant see what I am typing to get to the prompts to switch it to "external." Any chance you could "talk" me thru the keystrokes from power up and perhaps I can work it "blind"? Thanks for any help you can give. Chris in Va.

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Programs written in MIX (MIXAL)?

by tomj＠wps.com

Does anyone know of any computer language processors (algol, basic, fortran, pascal, etc) written in MIX eg. MIXAL, Knuth's mythical machine? Or MIXAL written in MIX (eg. a MIXAL that compiles itself)?

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Collectors in NY, NJ, DE, PA, MD ....?

by news＠computercollector.com

Hello to any mid-Atlantic collectors... a few of us are thinking about starting a user group of sorts. To start, the people who run the Trenton Computer Festival (April 16-17, www.tcf-nj.org) said we can have some free exhibit space. This year is the show's 30th anniversary, so my idea is that a few of us would each bring a few old computers, and we'd have a display where the show's attendees can experience what computing was like 30-ish years ago. It's be a great way for regional collectors to meet in person, and a great way to get others involved in our hobby. (As I was a few years ago, I know there are many people out there who have old computers, but who just don't realize that they're part of a bigger hobby.) If anyone's interested, please contact me ** OFF-LIST ** at news(a)computercollector.com. - Evan ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all -- W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news(a)computercollector.com -- 642 readers and counting!

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Disk drive technology

by tomj＠wps.com

Stumbled upon this while looking for something actually useful (eg. disk drive reliability data -- yeah right). Its more or less market hype, mainly the forward projections, but the interesting part are some good drawings of head topology, density-over-the-ages charts. Good drawing of perpendicular head design. IBM by way of Hitachi. http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/hddpdf/tech/hdd_technology2003.pdf It's an ugly old PDF, sorry.

21 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Newish Parts

by dhbarr＠gmail.com

I have sitting on my desk, taking up space: * 4 Intel i386 processors * 3 Intel Above Board Plus 8's (non-IO version, 2MB installed) 16 bit ISA cards Not really VERY old (circa '90) but if anyone wants, they can have. The 386's have just been stuck in some foam for about 6 years, but the memcards are new, in box, with 5.25 drivers and manuals (two still shrink-wrapped!). They say they're PC / XT / AT compatible, I think (not at my desk right now). They have a mode to work in an 8-bit slot, IIRC, and can be configured as extended or standard mem. Regards, -dhbarr. PS: Of course these are free, and shipping should be nominal.

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

8-bit ISA SCSI (was Re: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of5150?)

by acme＠gbronline.com

----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Leonard <trixter(a)oldskool.org> To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only <cctech(a)classiccmp.org> Cc: <acme(a)gbronline.com> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 6:06 PM Subject: Re: 8-bit ISA SCSI (was Re: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of5150?) > Got the card, but didn't come with a driver diskette. Am I going to be able to > use this controller as the only I/O in the system? (ie. I can boot off the > card's BIOS, yes?) Absolutely. If you are installing the card in an AT-type system with a built-in BIOS setup program and a table of hard drives, you may have to set the hard drive types to "none" in the BIOS. Before bothering to do that, though, I'd suggest just sticking the card in the system, hooking up a SCSI hard drive, and powering up. Most likely this will work with no hassle. The only time I needed the driver diskette was with SCSI CD-ROM drives. If you want a copy let me know. Later -- Glen 0/0

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

RTL Logic

by RCini＠congressfinancial.com

OK, this might sound like a stupid question, but being somewhat ignorant of RTL logic in comparison to TTL and other designs, what, if anything, can be substituted for RTL logic chips? For example, if I wanted to build one of Don's devices and I wasn't concerned with using "vintage" chips, could I do it "plug-and-play" using current TTL? Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Michael Holley Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:08 AM To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: RTL Logic I have acquired some Don Lancaster designs that use RTL logic and I am looking for spare parts. The MC789 hex inverter is used in all of them and I have 2 chips. Does anyone have a reasonable source for the MC789, I can get all I want for $20 a chip. I also have 2 MC799 buffers that are use in the Microlab. I have found two each of these (MC725, MC778, MC785, MC792, MC853, MC855) that I will part with. SWTPC Digital Logic Microlab http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Apr1970/PE_Apr1970.htm Early SWTPC keyboard http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Apr1974/PE_Apr1974.htm I think that Don Lancaster's TIC TAC TOE machine from 1971 is a very clever design. It uses 5 ICs and 60 diodes to play the game. I may build one. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/RadioElectronics/Dec1971/RE_Dec1971.htm Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley

21 years, 3 months

6
8
0 0

RTL Logic

by melamy＠earthlink.net

dirt has been known to be found in most places in the world... doing a wired-or and wired-and depends on reading IC specifications for specific chips. It is what design engineers do... -----Original Message----- From: Tom Jennings <tomj(a)wps.com> It varies from chip to chip and family to family. Wire OR/etc was common as dirt.

21 years, 3 months

4
3
0 0

more nice hp stuff on ebay

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

It's unusual to see one on Ebay... an HP 7210A plotter in what appears to be awesome condition. Same seller has a 9866A printer in very nice shape too. I don't know why I'm so intrigued by the 7210, I wouldn't use a plotter for anything I do, but it's soooo "period" :) Jay West

21 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Wanted: Contact info for Buyer at Gov. Auctions

by ICS＠Core.com

Hi everyone, Anyone know of a guy that buys from NASA, goverment Auctions in the Maryland area? I'm trying to learn of what happened to some hard drives that he bought. Thanks, George

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

RTL Logic

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Hi Actually regular TTL can take momentary shorts on the outputs to ground. When desperate in trouble shooting, I've been know to ground an output. It is not such a good idea on S parts though. Dwight >From: "Tom Jennings" <tomj(a)wps.com> > >On Fri, 7 Jan 2005, Steve Thatcher wrote: > >> I did wired-and with open collector TTL gates all the time... common as dirt! LOL > >D'OH!! > >R U sure that wasn't wired-NOR? > >(ducks from thrown tools) >

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

RTL Logic

by melamy＠earthlink.net

that was a function of input, not output - I was using 7409s... :) -----Original Message----- From: Tom Jennings <tomj(a)wps.com> Sent: Jan 7, 2005 5:52 PM To: Steve Thatcher <melamy(a)earthlink.net>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: RE: RTL Logic On Fri, 7 Jan 2005, Steve Thatcher wrote: > I did wired-and with open collector TTL gates all the time... common as dirt! LOL D'OH!! R U sure that wasn't wired-NOR? (ducks from thrown tools)

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

RTL Logic

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Oops! I forgot one thing. You can put several RTL outputs in parallel as a wired AND. You can't do that with the general CMOS or TTL. You'd need to look out for this. Does anyone have a source for DTL parts. There are a could I've been looking for. Dwight >From: "Cini, Richard" <RCini(a)congressfinancial.com> > >OK, this might sound like a stupid question, but being somewhat ignorant of >RTL logic in comparison to TTL and other designs, what, if anything, can be >substituted for RTL logic chips? > >For example, if I wanted to build one of Don's devices and I wasn't >concerned with using "vintage" chips, could I do it "plug-and-play" using >current TTL? > >Rich > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org >[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Michael Holley >Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:08 AM >To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org >Subject: RTL Logic > > >I have acquired some Don Lancaster designs that use RTL logic and I am >looking for spare parts. The MC789 hex inverter is used in all of them and I >have 2 chips. Does anyone have a reasonable source for the MC789, I can get >all I want for $20 a chip. > >I also have 2 MC799 buffers that are use in the Microlab. I have found two >each of these (MC725, MC778, MC785, MC792, MC853, MC855) that I will part >with. > >SWTPC Digital Logic Microlab >http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Apr1970/PE_Apr1970.htm >Early SWTPC keyboard >http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Apr1974/PE_Apr1974.htm > >I think that Don Lancaster's TIC TAC TOE machine from 1971 is a very clever >design. It uses 5 ICs and 60 diodes to play the game. I may build one. >http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/RadioElectronics/Dec1971/RE_Dec1971.htm > >Michael Holley >www.swtpc.com/mholley > >

21 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Importing binary files without removable storage nor non-bundled software (was: TKermitFTP

by melamy＠earthlink.net

the only reason Microsoft would not add binary transfer capability as an integral part of early DOS is that the people that needed it were in a small minority. It made no business sense to include features that they believed that most people really didn't need. Later in DOS, they did include a basic file transfer capability over a cable. Probably more out of pressure because people used products like LapLink and complained that they had to buy something instead of having it built in. It was designed to transfer files (and filenames) like a real software package like Telix would do when running zmodem protocol. A programmer can write any software, but they still are employed by the company that hired them and the product requirements. If Microsoft had put "everything" into early DOS, then companies like Norton, Traveling Software, etc would have not even been started. I have long held the concept that Microsoft has always been a 90% solution and the remaining 10% are the opportunities for outside companies. best regards, Steve Thatcher

21 years, 3 months

6
6
0 0

RTL Logic

by melamy＠earthlink.net

I did wired-and with open collector TTL gates all the time... common as dirt! LOL -----Original Message----- From: Tom Jennings <tomj(a)wps.com> Sent: Jan 7, 2005 3:59 PM To: Steve Thatcher <melamy(a)earthlink.net>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: RE: RTL Logic On Fri, 7 Jan 2005, Steve Thatcher wrote: > dirt has been known to be found in most places in the world... > > doing a wired-or and wired-and depends on reading IC specifications for specific chips. It is what design engineers do... Sorry for being so obtuse! Phrase meant: "wire OR/etc was very common in RTL". I tried wired-OR once in TTL, didn't like the results :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Jennings <tomj(a)wps.com> > > It varies from chip to chip and family to family. Wire OR/etc was > common as dirt. >

21 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Can anyone identify this IBM magnetic tape cartridge?&In-Reply-To=a06010204bbdf7cfbe966@[192.168.1.1

by SAEICHNER＠rainbow-media.com

I'm responding to a very old posting that I came upon quite accidentally. The tape in question is a "Precon" tape used by the IBM Magnetic Tape Selectric Composer system introducted by IBM in 67. I worked for IBM at the time and subsequently used a lot of this equipment in my graphic arts/typesetting business. The tape was used to "pre-condition" the IBM MT/SC based on what you were trying to do, i.e., set straight text type, set tabular type, set type using an outline format, or set horizontal rules. It was sort of a "download" of code to get the machine set up for what you were about to do because all of the code could not be resident in the MT/SC at the same time. The Precon 256 was used for straight columnar text type; the Precon 260 was used for text in outline format (1.(a).1 etc), Precon 261 was used for tabular work--columns and Precon 259 was used to create automatic horizontal rules specifically for use in classified ads. Precon 263 was a diagnostic Precon. There were many other Special Feature Precons such as 340, 341, 342 and 343 for automatic letter writing functions and automatic paragraph selection, etc. Interesting stuff. Good equipment--I liked using it very much. P.S.--The tape has no value--other than memories. At the time the tape cost about 40 bucks--the MT/SC cost about $35,000! Steve Eichner Manager, Business Systems Standards & Assurance Rainbow Information Systems 516-803-5102

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Data General equipment

by Innfogra＠aol.com

There is a guy in Portland Oregon that has a lot of old DG. I will see if I can try to contact him next time in Portland, in a week or two. I think he has some 6045s. Just thinking about him I realize he spends some of the winter in Thailand. Hope he wasn't involved in the Tsunami. Paxton, Astoria, OR

21 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Convex SPP(3?) .... Worth saving?

by CordaAJ＠NSWC.NAVY.MIL

Hey guys... I have a line on a Convex machine. The current owner is a guy who attends Govt. auctions and buys bulk, then scraps out stuff for gold/parts/etc... He calls me when he finds anything interesting, so... He says this is a Convex SPP3. (it's _heavy_... around 400 Lbs.) I haven't seen it yet, so I don't know anything more right now. Unfortunately, I have no knowledge of Convex stuff, and a web search turned up some Convex SPP stuff, but not much, and _nothing_ on an "SPP3". Can anyone enlighten me further? (Yep, I know it's an SMP architecture of some sort, but little more than that). A couple of questions... Is this machine historically significant? (I.e. worth saving?) Does anyone know of a source for documentation? (I've done a prelim. web/newsgroup search, but haven't turned anything up) Does anyone have (or know where I can find) a copy of an OS for it (apparently it's a unix variant. He told me that the disks were missing... not unusual for an auction item) 400 lbs is a bit large for me, but if there is a remote chance I can bring this critter back to life (and it's worth saving) it's probably worth the effort. I'll going to try to take a look at it and try to get some sort of model#/ident. Anything I should be looking out for or wary of? -al- -acorda(a)1bigred.com

21 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

RTL Logic

by melamy＠earthlink.net

yes, and you are pointing out a three input dual NOR gate. You said several could be paralleled. What you pointed out in the book was text that said you could connect two together... -----Original Message----- From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwight.elvey(a)amd.com> Sent: Jan 7, 2005 2:13 PM To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: RE: RTL Logic Hi If you look at Al's spec page, see 017_MC715 or page 18. It states: Each may be used independently, paralleled for increasing the number of inputs ( subject to loading rules), or cross-coupled to form bistable elements. So, as you can see, it was allowed to tie outputs together with some restrictions. Dwight

21 years, 3 months

3
3
0 0

RTL Logic

by aek＠spies.com

The MC789 is a hex inverter, a 7404 or 7406 could be used but the pin-out is different -- The only thing it has in common with a TTL inverter is the function it performs. RTL logic, power supply, and switching performance are NOT the same as TTL. I have the RTL section of the 1969 Motorola microelectronics catalog scanned I'll see about getting it on line later today.

21 years, 3 months

4
6
0 0

RTL Logic

by melamy＠earthlink.net

I don't see how doing a wired-and is possible when RTL includes a pullup resistor on each output. You would get to a point where an individual output transistor would not be capable of sinking all the "low" current. You can get a basic idea of the logic families here... http://www.asic-world.com/digital/gates5.html best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwight.elvey(a)amd.com> Sent: Jan 7, 2005 12:22 PM To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: RE: RTL Logic Oops! I forgot one thing. You can put several RTL outputs in parallel as a wired AND. You can't do that with the general CMOS or TTL. You'd need to look out for this. Does anyone have a source for DTL parts. There are a could I've been looking for. Dwight

21 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

RTL Logic

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Hi RTL is 3.6V. You could get by with CMOS but not TTL, directly. Of course, you could run two power rails. The signal levels of RTL and TTL are somewhat compatable. Dwight >From: "Cini, Richard" <RCini(a)congressfinancial.com> > >OK, this might sound like a stupid question, but being somewhat ignorant of >RTL logic in comparison to TTL and other designs, what, if anything, can be >substituted for RTL logic chips? > >For example, if I wanted to build one of Don's devices and I wasn't >concerned with using "vintage" chips, could I do it "plug-and-play" using >current TTL? > >Rich > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org >[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Michael Holley >Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:08 AM >To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org >Subject: RTL Logic > > >I have acquired some Don Lancaster designs that use RTL logic and I am >looking for spare parts. The MC789 hex inverter is used in all of them and I >have 2 chips. Does anyone have a reasonable source for the MC789, I can get >all I want for $20 a chip. > >I also have 2 MC799 buffers that are use in the Microlab. I have found two >each of these (MC725, MC778, MC785, MC792, MC853, MC855) that I will part >with. > >SWTPC Digital Logic Microlab >http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Apr1970/PE_Apr1970.htm >Early SWTPC keyboard >http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Apr1974/PE_Apr1974.htm > >I think that Don Lancaster's TIC TAC TOE machine from 1971 is a very clever >design. It uses 5 ICs and 60 diodes to play the game. I may build one. >http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/RadioElectronics/Dec1971/RE_Dec1971.htm > >Michael Holley >www.swtpc.com/mholley > >

21 years, 3 months

5
5
0 0

RTL Logic

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Hi There may be a good reason for his selection. It may have been the pull-up voltage he needed since TTL is voltage limited on output swing. It may have been the sink current as well. One really needs to check the actual useage to see what he had in mind. I'm sure the application would show what the issue was. Dwight >From: "Randy McLaughlin" <randy(a)s100-manuals.com> > >It's funny to have a good discussion based on projects published over 30 >years ago. > >For the OP, modifying the original project to use currently available >devices, especially if you use devices that were contemporaneous seems OK to >me. I would not be surprised if people used 7404's or 7406's to build some >of these projects when they first came out. > >I would be curious to know the reasoning of using RTL chips when TTL chips >were available considering they are driven out of spec, maybe Don was just >more comfortable with them or that is what he had laying around. > > >Randy > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwight.elvey(a)amd.com> >To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> >Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:52 PM >Subject: RE: RTL Logic > > >> Hi >> Most of these were designed such that a single >> output pullup resistor didn't use all of the >> sink of an output transistor. This means that >> two outputs tied together and would not draw too much >> current. >> DTL does the same thing and allows the wired AND. >> As I recall, with RTL, you only needed to apply >> power to one device if they were inverters >> since there was no other active logic, >> like flops. >> Dwight >> >> >>>From: "Steve Thatcher" <melamy(a)earthlink.net> >>> >>>I don't see how doing a wired-and is possible when RTL includes a pullup >> resistor on each output. You would get to a point where an individual >> output >> transistor would not be capable of sinking all the "low" current. >>> >>>You can get a basic idea of the logic families here... >>> >>>http://www.asic-world.com/digital/gates5.html >>> >>>best regards, Steve Thatcher >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwight.elvey(a)amd.com> >>>Sent: Jan 7, 2005 12:22 PM >>>To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org >>>Subject: RE: RTL Logic >>> >>>Oops! >>> I forgot one thing. You can put several RTL outputs in >>>parallel as a wired AND. You can't do that with the >>>general CMOS or TTL. You'd need to look out for this. >>> Does anyone have a source for DTL parts. There are >>>a could I've been looking for. >>>Dwight > > >

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

RTL Logic

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Hi If you look at Al's spec page, see 017_MC715 or page 18. It states: Each may be used independently, paralleled for increasing the number of inputs ( subject to loading rules), or cross-coupled to form bistable elements. So, as you can see, it was allowed to tie outputs together with some restrictions. Dwight >From: "Steve Thatcher" <melamy(a)earthlink.net> > >I don't see how doing a wired-and is possible when RTL includes a pullup resistor on each output. You would get to a point where an individual output transistor would not be capable of sinking all the "low" current. > >You can get a basic idea of the logic families here... > >http://www.asic-world.com/digital/gates5.html > >best regards, Steve Thatcher > > >-----Original Message----- >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwight.elvey(a)amd.com> >Sent: Jan 7, 2005 12:22 PM >To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org >Subject: RE: RTL Logic > >Oops! > I forgot one thing. You can put several RTL outputs in >parallel as a wired AND. You can't do that with the >general CMOS or TTL. You'd need to look out for this. > Does anyone have a source for DTL parts. There are >a could I've been looking for. >Dwight > > >

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

RTL Logic

by aek＠spies.com

> 3.6v? Are you joking or do you believe that? The MC7xx series specs are now up at http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/motorola/_dataBooks/1969_microElectronics/17_M… Feel free to interpret their specifications any way that you like. This will be the last comment I will make on this topic.

21 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Found was Re: Setup disk for HP Vectra ES?

by pamandbill＠earthlink.net

Hey Joe, Any chance you have a copy of that Vectra es setup disk you could Email me is there? I'm trying to bring one back to life... Bill N.

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150?

by trixter＠oldskool.org

I have a few IBM model 5150s that I use to code entries for programming competitions and I'd like to try to speed up the hard disk in any way possible. (If you're curious what my last project was, check out http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=13722 to download and try it out -- it displays full-screen full-motion color video with sync'd sound -- yes, on a 4.77MHz 8088, no fooling). I've been looking for any way to speed up the hard disk subsystem (currently WD1002 with Seagate ST225) and I simply can't get more than 130KB/s out of the darn thing... so: - Is there any MFM/RLL 8-bit ISA controller that can read disks at their full 1:1 interleave? If so, where can I get one? 3:1 is the best I've been able to get using the above MFM combination. I haven't tried RLL yet because I don't have any RLL controllers. - If not, do such things exist as 8-bit ISA IDE controllers? I have lots of "little" IDE drives (320MB and 540MB models) that I could hook up. I attempted not one but TWO 8-bit Plus hardcards (both 40MB models), thinking that the embedded drive/controller combo would be better, but my experience with Plus Hardcards (even the 16-bit 120MB versions) is that, after about 8 years, the damn EEPROM forgets everything and it doesn't boot (no BIOS, get a 1701 "controller error"). So I couldn't get either of them to work. (As a result I have 4 Plus hardcards that I am *this close* to throwing away, unless someone has an idea of reviving them :-) Any advice? Or should I just try to find an EMS board and cache my data instead? (Speaking of which, does anyone have a LIM EMS board for sale/trade? Can't seem to find one of those either.) -- Jim Leonard (trixter(a)oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/

21 years, 3 months

14
25
0 0

Olivetti Programma 101 manual online

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

At 14:43 06/01/2005 -0500, you wrote: >Hi guys, > >Several people asked me for copies of the Olivetti Programma 101 >manual - I have scanned the better of the two manuals that I have, >and placed the scan at: > > http://www.dunfield.com/pub/olpro101.pdf > >Regards, >Dave Btw - just in case it is not obvious - the last two pages of the scan are NOT from the manual - these are scans of the two different "programming worksheet" pads that I have. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

have an extra UDA-50 board set?

by brad＠heeltoe.com

Hi Does anyone have a working UDA-50 board set with the "over the top" jumpers they would be willing to part with? (or while I'm asking, an RA-81 HDA? :-) (this is a unibus disk controller for the non-dec folks) i have one in my vax and I'd like to have another for my 11/44. -brad

21 years, 3 months

4
3
0 0

Olivetti Programma 101 manual online

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

Hi guys, Several people asked me for copies of the Olivetti Programma 101 manual - I have scanned the better of the two manuals that I have, and placed the scan at: http://www.dunfield.com/pub/olpro101.pdf Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Importing binary files without removable storage nor non-bundled software (was: TKermitFTP

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Tom Jennings" <tomj(a)wps.com> > >>> "Binary reads from a device are not >>> allowed" is the message at 8753 in DR-DOS 3.41. > >On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> The question I haven't seen answered yet is, "Well, why the hell not???" > >The real answer is: there is no out-of-band signalling, so one of >the 128 in-band symbols (SUB, 26 decimal) is chosen to mean "END >OF FILE". It's borrowed from CP/M-80; I don't know where DR got >it; it seems un-DEC-ish. > >("Out of band" signalling is, for RS-232 et al, the hardware >handshake lines. No one likes them, everyone complains like >babies, so they have essentially been deprecated.) > Hi In the past when I wanted a non-block binary transfer, I often had some value that I used as an escape character. I'd choose a low frequency value to improve throughput. It is simple, If you want to send a command value, you send the escape character, first. If you just wanted the escape character, you'd send it twice. For 8 bit data, you had 255 commands. EOF could be one of those. It makes a simple protocol that is easy to implement in code. Dwight

21 years, 3 months

5
4
0 0

XXDP listings available

by GOOI＠oce.nl

Hello PDP-11 addicts :~) I finished the scan of some 130+ XXDP listings into PDF's. Al has provided the webspace on bitsavers at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/XXDP If you are looking for a specific XXDP, bitsavers is great, but if you want to have them all in your collection you might consider asking me in a private e-mail. All XXDP listings are totalling your download to approx 670 Mb ... For a small fee, depending the shipping costs, I could burn a CD-ROM ... -- that is, if nobody objects to this approach -- kind regards, - Henk, PA8PDP.

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

SGI IR Onyx Boards...

by lbickley＠bickleywest.com

I'd like to obtain the following spares for my SGI Onyx IR system. If you have any or all of the boards below available, please contact me off list. SGI Part No. Description -------------------------------------------------- 030-0683-004 RM6-16 raster manager (16Mb TRAM) 030-0684-004 RM6-64 raster manager (64Mb TRAM) 030-0681-003 GE12-4 geometry engine Cheers, Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

RTL Logic

by swtpc6800＠comcast.net

I have acquired some Don Lancaster designs that use RTL logic and I am looking for spare parts. The MC789 hex inverter is used in all of them and I have 2 chips. Does anyone have a reasonable source for the MC789, I can get all I want for $20 a chip. I also have 2 MC799 buffers that are use in the Microlab. I have found two each of these (MC725, MC778, MC785, MC792, MC853, MC855) that I will part with. SWTPC Digital Logic Microlab http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Apr1970/PE_Apr1970.htm Early SWTPC keyboard http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Apr1974/PE_Apr1974.htm I think that Don Lancaster's TIC TAC TOE machine from 1971 is a very clever design. It uses 5 ICs and 60 diodes to play the game. I may build one. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/RadioElectronics/Dec1971/RE_Dec1971.htm Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley

21 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Alloy S100-interfaced QIC tape drive available

by ddl-cctech＠danlan.com

This consists of an IDXCS-100T S-100 controller and a D6410 tape drive. Also programming manual and CP/M-86 software. It is pretty heavy. As usual, price is $0 plus shipping or you pick up in Gloucester, MA. Dan Lanciani ddl(a)danlan.*com

21 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Importing binary files without removable storage nor non-bundled software (was: TKermitFTP

by melamy＠earthlink.net

if they allowed it, then they had to support it... It was easier to prevent it then deal with the untold support calls because people didn't know what they were doing. Connecting machines by RS232 was never easy in the early days. I worked for Applied Microsystems and had to connect emulators to a variety of computer systems in the 80s and every one was a pain. Imagine IBM tech support dealing with that too. As for Traveling Software, seeing how I worked for them for five years, I don't recall any buyout attempts from Microsoft. Traveling did go through hard times and it still around but not as they were back in the 90s. They could never get the LapLink name associated with Traveling Software and they finally changed the company name to LapLink. They made a great remote control product that was more reliable that PC Anywhere, but LapLink was a file transfer utility and the recognition as another form of product was never successful. As for the last topic, my comment stands. I really don't care where MS gets stuff. They have unfortunately destroyed a lot of companies along the way by assimilation or outright destruction. -----Original Message----- From: Vintage Computer Festival <vcf(a)siconic.com> Sent: Jan 6, 2005 3:05 PM To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Importing binary files without removable storage nor non-bundled software (was: TKermitFTP On Thu, 6 Jan 2005, Steve Thatcher wrote: > the only reason Microsoft would not add binary transfer capability as an > integral part of early DOS is that the people that needed it were in a > small minority. It made no business sense to include features that they > believed that most people really didn't need. Later in DOS, they did What? It seems to me they had to do more programming work to prevent binary copying to the serial port. > include a basic file transfer capability over a cable. Probably more out > of pressure because people used products like LapLink and complained > that they had to buy something instead of having it built in. It was Actually, it was because Laplink showed there was a market for such a product, and in true MS style they probably tried to buy LL, were rebuffed, and then came up with their own (inferior) built-in version to try to suck the life out of Traveling Software and make them go bankrupt. It didn't work in this (rare) case. > I have long held the concept that Microsoft has always been a 90% > solution and the remaining 10% are the opportunities for outside > companies. More like 10% original work and 90% acquisitions/destruction-by-co-optation of other companies. (I sense the possibility of another thread of MS bashing coming on...) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival

21 years, 3 months

6
6
0 0

2026

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

test-drb