- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by news＠computercollector.com

http://os.newsforge.com/os/05/03/17/177217.shtml?tid=16 Evan's personal homepage: www.snarc.net *** Tell your friends about the (free!) Computer Collector Newsletter - 700 readers and no spam / Publishes every Monday / Write for us! - Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all - W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news at computercollector.com

21 years, 2 months

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"Thyractors" on the DEC LT33 modified ASR33 Teletype

by sonnet＠sols.ucl.ac.be

Hi folks, I am currently modifying my Teletype ASR33 into a LT33 according to the DEC specifications to work with my PDP-8/L. Does someone know what is a Thyractor (GE 6RS20SP4B4) ? Some kind of voltage clamping device ?. How could I make one, using, for instance a pair of thyristors or a pair of zenner diodes ? Many thanks,. Philippe Sonnet

21 years, 2 months

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ASR-33...

by dvcorbin＠optonline.net

Just spent the early afternoon trying to adjust my one working (out of 3) teletypes to print a decent imprint. New Ribbons, Clean Type Cylinder, Good Impact Pad. still just getting a very light (almost unreadable) character on the page... Any ideas????

21 years, 2 months

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Which PDP?

by dvcorbin＠optonline.net

> >>>>> "curt" == curt <@ Atari Museum" <curt at atarimuseum.com>> writes: > > curt> You should also consider if you want a Unibus system (even > curt> numbered) or a Qbus system (odd numbered) .. > > Huh? You can't deduce the bus type from the parity of the model > number. > > 11/03, 23, 73, 83 are Qbus > 11/04, 05, 10, 15, 20, 35, 40, 45, 55, 60, 70, 74, 84 are Unibus > > paul > > Actually that would be the "modulus 2" not parity. 03-even 23-odd 73-odd etc...

21 years, 2 months

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Which PDP?

by James＠jdfogg.com

> Indeed. Judging the two Over-The-Top connectors, the CPU > must be the 11/34A, because it has installed the floating > point _and_ the cache option. > The only worry about this configuration is the condition of > the TU10. The capstan roller in the top of the TU10 tape > drive can be bad. The rollers in both TE16's of mine have gone goo. > The rubber ring that clamps the mounted tape can be worn too, > but I have heard a story that, if the ring is not to bad, you > can revitalise it in warm water. I've never done that (yet) though... I don't have the $900 to rescue this (I'm not sure I even have the mortgage this month), but if it goes unbid (how likely is that?) I'm going to contact the seller and see if we can work something out. The 11/34 was my first PDP contact (in college) and I have yet to own one. I have two great loves (both unfulfilled), an 11/34 and a DG Nova/Eclipse/MV.

21 years, 2 months

2
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Getting into debugger on Apollo machines

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Before I go insane, can someone tell me the magic key sequence used to get into the mnemonic debugger at startup on Apollo machines? (Specifically a 425t, but I expect it's the same sequence on all flavours) I managed it - once, after much random tapping, and thought it was a simple double return that did it. Made the mistake of rebooting so I could move the machine to a more useful position, then discovered that it *wasn't* a double return. Nothing in the manuals (install / owner's guide, anyway) saying how to do it - they only mention how to do it from a machine that's already booted into the OS. The machine's sitting there trying to load across the network when it can't find an OS on local disk, which I don't want it to do - I've put an empty disk in there *because* I want to install an OS on it from local tape. There must be some way to interrupt it in order to get into the debugger. Grrr! (I could pull the token-ring board, but I have a feeling it's trying to boot across the onboard Ethernet anyway, not token-ring, so it wouldn't help) Maybe if I leave it long enough (like, more than the 20 mins I've given it already) it'll time out... cheers Jules

21 years, 2 months

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Which PDP?

by GOOI＠oce.nl

> > epay's got a lovely 11/34(prob a or c) two rack system > going for 880$ > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&it > em=5178288415&rd=1 > > looks like tektronix test system - the cpu box looks fully > > loaded possibly with the fp11 and or 11/34c cache board, 2RLs > > and a DEC 9 track tape drive, controllers, semi ram., two > > short racks. > > you should be able to squeeze these into a single tall rack > > if you're careful. > > Should run Unix V7 quite nicely! > > Oh the temptation! It's 2 hours away from me (no shipping). Indeed. Judging the two Over-The-Top connectors, the CPU must be the 11/34A, because it has installed the floating point _and_ the cache option. The only worry about this configuration is the condition of the TU10. The capstan roller in the top of the TU10 tape drive can be bad. The rollers in both TE16's of mine have gone goo. The rubber ring that clamps the mounted tape can be worn too, but I have heard a story that, if the ring is not to bad, you can revitalise it in warm water. I've never done that (yet) though... - Henk, PA8PDP.

21 years, 2 months

1
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History of notebook computers

by James＠jdfogg.com

> Gee... lets just completely overlook the Apple Mac Portable > and mention > the Powerbook 100 instead... The Tandy 100 could've gotten > a mention, > even the Atari Portfolio could've gotten a mention too. > > Its times like this, you want to roll those mags up and shove > it up the editors arse !!! ;-) Magazine writers are Journalism and English majors. They are one paycheck away from "would you like fries with that?" The relentless drumbeat of deadlines makes them desperate to fill their little part of the magazine with anything that sounds good, or it's fry grease for them. After a while they begin to believe their swollen ego. It's not just computer mags, look at all the hopelessly simplified (or wrong) psychological advice given in women's magazines.

21 years, 2 months

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Which PDP?

by James＠jdfogg.com

> epay's got a lovely 11/34(prob a or c) two rack system going for 880$ > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&it em=5178288415&rd=1 > looks like tektronix test system - the cpu box looks fully > loaded possibly with the fp11 and or 11/34c cache board, 2RLs > and a DEC 9 track tape drive, controllers, semi ram., two short racks. > you should be able to squeeze these into a single tall rack > if you're careful. > Should run Unix V7 quite nicely! Oh the temptation! It's 2 hours away from me (no shipping).

21 years, 2 months

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Age & Intro (Long Winded)

by bpettit＠ix.netcom.com

After reviewing the last month's messages on the cctech archive web site, thought I should introduce myself. I'm racing up to 63 - wish it went slower, but that's life. My first computer was in the Army in 1960 - an analogue manual input job on a mortar tracking radar. That was at Ft. Monmouth; after that, I was transferred to Restone Arsenal, Alabama and trained on the "Jukebox". It was a vacuum tube computer with a fixed disk main memory used in targeting the Redstone Missile. (I think it was made by Autonetics, but 45 year old memories aren't reliable.) Right after learning the Jukebox, was transferred to the Pershing and trained on a transistor drum memory targeting computer made by Martin Marietta in Orlando. It was exciting, learning all this "new" technology. Transistors were just getting accepted for mil spec programs. We even had a class from RCA for something they called Integrated circuits - the first commercial family of ICs. Was RTL. I still have the data sheets they gave us some place in the garage. After Uncle Sam, I went to Minneapolis to work for Control Data. That was mid-1963 - was trained on the 160-A and 1604. At that time, CDC didn't make its own peripherals, so we used IBM 523s, 088s and Ampex tape units. The first 160s used Ferranti paper tape readers (with thyrotrons) and Teletype punches. The typewriter was a model B IBM with a Soroban encoder. A few months later, Normandale Ops came up with the 606 tape units, followed by the 405 card reader, 415 card punch and 350 paper tape reader. More equipment to learn and support. They also repackaged the 160 in an industrial cabinet and called it the 8090. A smaller division called IDP (Inductrial Data Products) created a tiny 8 bit version called the 8092 for some telecommunication systems they were doing for ARPA. Used teletypes and 101 Bell modems. (Some arguments abput it being the first PC like computer.) They also sold it to a company called Rabinow who made the first commercial OCR scanners. (Biggest customer was the IRS - who had a policy of auditing anybody who worked on their equipment.) Since I was a customer engineer in the Minneapolis area, I had to support all of these new products. I started a new way of life - new product training every few months, then working on the buggy new products from the prototype on. Eventually, I logged more than 5000 hours of class room training on CDC and other vendors products! All the CDC peripherals, plus IBM for unit record, Ampex tapes, Analex printers, Holly Printers, Bryant Drums, IBM 1311 and 2311 disks, flexowriters, Selectrics, Teletype readers, punches, Model 32, 33 and 35 I/O printers, Bell 101 and 301 modems, etc. As CDC grew, they bought out other computer operations. So those of us in the field were also expected to support the Bendix G-15, RPC-4000, LPG-30, etc. It seemed inpossible to stay current - there were just so many systems coming out. For example, in 1964, I had training on the 6600. And a few months later, trained on the 3600. Said training consisted of weeks in the classroom followed by working on the assembly line debugging the systems after they were built. One bright light manager even had the idea to save money by using us to support software since we were already in the field. That way, his programmers didn't have to deal with customers. It didn't take long for this brainstorm to crash; but a bunch of us were also trained on the software, especially the 3300 MSOS and MOS. Over the next 12 years, I stayed in field support, first as an engineer then Tech Support. Was moved around constantly: Atlanta; Huntsville; Houston; The Hague, Holland; London, England; Detroit; Mississauga, Ontario Canada. At this point, I left field support and was in R&D on a machine called the Star-65. It was to be a smaller model of the Star 100. The development was in Canada (Mississauga). When the Star was killed, we did a rush program called Cyber 170, CDC's first all IC machine. After 4 years in the lab, I longed to get back to the field side, so transferred to Oklahoma City and worked on the Magnetic Periphersals' 14" cartridge drives. Then the 8" Lark; the 940X floppies; and finally on the 5" inch Wren series. After 23 years at CDC, I hired on with Fujitsu and moved to Silicon Valley. Managed a group of enginers who supported the peripheral products at OEM sites, primarily Sun and Tandem. My area was disks, tapes, MOs, printers and scanners. Fujitsu faded away, so after 8 years I moved over to Quantum. Again working on disks. Supported all the top 10 OEMs, but primarily Apple and Compaq. It was a matrix style company, so I was also on new Product Teams, getting new drives through the qualification process. Most of these were SCSI-2 and SCSI-3 3.5". Though we did have one 5.25" called the BigFoot. (A infamous legend in its own right.) Finally, a chance came up to get away from hard drives. I joined Philips and managed a group supporting their OEM customers using Philips CD and DVD recorders and media. This was sheer joy - new technology with fun applications. The design work was in Eindhoven, Holland and Hasselt, Belgium so there were some great trips. Initially, the manufacturing was in Gyor, Hungary which was also a fabulous place to visit. Even had to set up lab full of Xboxes and test all the new games to see that they worked on the DVD-ROM! Eventually, Philips exited the designing and manufactuing end. All that is left is a small sales force. The rest of us in the Sunnyvale group scattered. And now some of us old timers are relaxing and thinking of the past. Time for grand children and travel. It was fun being on the cutting edge for 45 years. I miss it. Need something to keep my mind busy. --------------------------------- So that's it for the classic side. Except to add that I saved all of the manuals on equipment I worked on. Eventually, I had to thin them out and dumped a lot of the wire lists, software manuals, periperal manuals, SPAM boxes and general papers. Excepting the 160-A/8090/8092/5101 systems. I always loved them, so kept all the hardware, software, listings, tapes, cards, etc. I think I still have schematics of every computer I worked on, but my garage is a solid mass of books and electronics. Before I can retire and move, it has to shrink by 90%. So I've been looking for a home for it. --------------------------------- I always wanted to have a home system, so in the late 60's I designed a TTL 160-A. There were already several amateur computer groups active - ACS was the most productive. They had a newsletter out that had several designs using TTL and DTL. One used some DEC modules. And then came the famous Radio Electronics article on the Mark 8. It was a great milestone - a real home computer. I promptly sent off for it. Bought an 8008, for $160! But we had started our family that year, so hobbies were put on hold. 30+ years later, 4 kids are raised, through University and raising their own families. Time to play again. I still have the virgin Mark 8 PCBs. In fact they are still in the box they came in! Along with all the components, bought new and never used. I would occasionally pick up micro computers and PCs as they came out, but most are now long gone. I kept a few just because they were small: Kim, Sym, Ebka, PAIA, MicroProfessor, etc. I think I still have all the manuals and software too. I dumped the TRS-80s, Amigas, Ataris, and early PCs. There is still a little of SWTP 6800 stuff left, including some of the TV Typewriters. And most of the assembly manuals. I also keep most of the books, magazines and newsletters from that era. But my PDP-8s are in the Oklahoma City landfill, along with all the discarded CDC manuals, and half a dozen other minis of that era. At that time, I made a little money on the side by rebuilding Teletypes. When we moved, my spare parts and extra 33s went to the highest bidder: $100 for 10 machines and several hundred pounds of spare parts. The calculator collection went too, sadly. I had two working Friden 130/132s. I still mourn their loss. I had picked up a lot of data manuals, parts and ICs, but also dumped them at OkCity. And then started again in California. But it wasn't organised collecting so there is only a hodge podge of products and books filling the garage. Promised my wife I'd clean it out this year, a chore I'm really dreading ----------------------------- I apologise for the long message. Some other people not on the list will also get this. Billy

21 years, 2 months

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Which PDP?

by James＠jdfogg.com

> I'd like to include a PDP in my collection, but not sure what > to go for? My requirements would be > > 1) It has to be a 70's design > 2) It needs to be reasonably compact > 3) I'd like to run something 'unix like' > with a c compiler as an option. > 4) My budget is not huge <$1000 > > Any recommendations? I'd vote for the 11/23, mostly because it was the last of the 70's (1979), they were produced in large numbers and are compact. Most were built with the (then) brand-new RL02 drives. The design continued for many years and lots of DEC and non-DEC boards are available for neat things like MFM drives large ammounts of memory. I have one I got for free, exactly as pictured here with VT101 and LA36 DecWriter-II printing terminal... http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Digital/timeline/1979-2.htm The link says Microsoft, but it's Gordon Bells page.

21 years, 2 months

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Cray Research Inc. - Memorabilia and Brochures

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Check what went for over $200, I had for awhile at $15. :-( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7142492992&ssPageName=AD…

21 years, 2 months

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Good description of Apple ][ disk controller

by RCini＠congressfinancial.com

========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. First Vice President Wachovia Capital Finance 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) Does someone have this available as a PDF? Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Eric Smith Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 1:43 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Good description of Apple ][ disk controller I wrote: >> You want the book "The Apple II Circuit Description", or "The Apple IIe >> Circuit Description", by Winston Gayler. Sellam wrote: > While that's a good book, it has nothing on the disk controller. See > my previous message for a better selection. Oh. I suppose I must be hallucinating when I look at this copy in front of me. The table of contents lists chapter 9 as being "The Disk Controller". And pages 9-1 through 9-45 seem to give a detailed explanation of how it works. But I guess this must just be a particularly strange side effect of the drugs that I'm not taking. >> The bits shift in from the right, and there's no counter. The only >> way you can tell that the complete "nybble" has been read is that the >> MSB of the shift register is set. > How...lame. There's a specific number of cycles that it takes to assemble > an 8-bit byte. No, there aren't. The disk drive operates asynchronously to the computer, and motor speed variations of both the drive that wrote the disk and the drive that's reading it affect it a lot. > Why can't one just go off this timing to determine when a > full byte is read? And if this is possible, then does that mean that one > can really store a byte that doesn't have the MSB set, and subsequently > read it back? Not reliably. > I see. And this is where I'm confused. Beneath Apple DOS shows diagrams > that indicate there's a clock pulse between every data bit. So either > that diagram is wrong, and there are no clock pulses, The authors of Beneath Apple DOS had no clue whatsoever as to what was going on at that level, so they apparently just assumed that it worked the same as other disk controllers in that regard. There are no clock bits. That's the whole point of GCR. Fortunately they understood the higher-level stuff, so the rest of the book is much more accurate. > According to my reading (in Beneath Apple DOS), you can only have *one > pair* of consecutive zeros in any one byte, but it was not clear if that > was a hardware constraint or an artificial constraint to pare down the > number of "legal" values. Artificial constraint. The hardware (w/ the 16 sector state machine) can deal with any nybble that has the MSB set, and no more than two consecutive zeros. Eric

21 years, 2 months

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New Find: Tektronix 4052 +++

by djg＠drs-c4i.com

> Nice. We've got one of those 4631 hardcopy units, but nobody with any > knowledge about them (is there any particular Tek they're supposed to be > used with?) > I used a 4052 many years ago with the dual floppy. I think the 46x1 devices are all compatible. The one 4611 that was around back then printed a different size image than the 4631's. They should work with a 4010-1 or later storage tube terminal. They also has 613 monitors that they would also work with. I have a 4631 sort of. I purchased is as that and thats what the plate says but somebody put the 4632 video interface board in it so I can't use it with my 4010-1. Anybody have a junk 4631 I could get the board from? Or a 46x1 they don't want? >any way to get the consumables for these. I recall some special roll of >paper, plus a liquid fixing material. didnt they come out wet? > The 46x1 used dry silver paper which was exposed by the single line CRT in the hard copy unit then developed with heat. The I think the 3m 7?? silver paper will also work. Tek number may be 006-1603. The stuff has a shelf life so you probable won't get good copies with the old stuff from ebay etc I haven't been able to try my out of date roll. I don't know if anybody still makes the paper but a new roll used to be >$100. It was also used for microfiche printers.

21 years, 2 months

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New Find: Tektronix 4052 +++

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

My Tektronix magnetism is still working. Yesterday I got a call from one of my sources to tell me that they had a new load of stuff but they added that they thought it was all "crap". Went out there anyway and they first thing that I found was a Tektronix 4052 computer :-). Dug a little further and found a Tektronix 4631 Hardcopy unit and two Tektronix 8" disk drives :-) :-) :-) AFIK this is the first set of disk drives that anyone has ever found for a 4052 and only the second set of disk drives for ANT 405x computer. Eveything was in surprisingly good condition. One key had been knocked off the keyboard but I found it in the pile and it didn't look like the keyswitch was broken. I didn't find the interconnecting cables but the 4052 uses a regular GP-IB cable to talk to the master disk drive and a straight through cable to connect the two disk drives. I haven't looked to see what the hardcopy unit uses. Joe

21 years, 2 months

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Rare Apples, eBay, Goodwill

by dvcorbin＠optonline.net

> John Keys wrote: > It must be the area you live in, I have gotten Sun's, Next's, Vax, > HP's, AS400's and missed on some SOL's plus a few other > S100 systems at my local Goodwill. Getting ready to move to wherever John Lives.... which would be????

21 years, 2 months

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Wanted: Control Data 160-A, 8090 or 8092

by bpettit＠ix.netcom.com

Now that I have the time, I would love to restore a 160-A. I'm in the market for CDC systems or parts of that vintage. Any one on this list have any of the computers, paper tape equiment or typewriter? Numbers like 161, 162, 168, 169, 350, 8090, 808X,etc. I know that the Museum in Mountain View has one, but they have indicated they are not ready to restore it yet. Any one know where there are some other dealers or individuals who might have these systems? Billy Pettit

21 years, 2 months

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Good description of Apple ][ disk controller

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

>>> You want the book "The Apple II Circuit Description", or "The Apple IIe >>> Circuit Description", by Winston Gayler. >> While that's a good book, it has nothing on the disk controller. See >> my previous message for a better selection. >Oh. I suppose I must be hallucinating when I look at this copy in >front of me. The table of contents lists chapter 9 as being "The >Disk Controller". And pages 9-1 through 9-45 seem to give a detailed >explanation of how it works. But I guess this must just be a >particularly strange side effect of the drugs that I'm not taking. Um .. don't really want to get into a discussion on your drug habits or what visions they may be causing you .. but what edition of the book do you have? - Mine (first edition, first printing -- 1983) Has only chapters 1-8 (no 9) and makes no mention of the disk controller... [I looked when Sellam first asked for information] Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 2 months

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Book inside out

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

I was given a book the other day called "inside out" Microsoft - In Our Own Words. have not read it yet just turned few pages, anyone on the list have this or read it? John

21 years, 2 months

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Help out a museum?

by classiccmp＠vintage-computer.com

I got the following via email a bit ago: ---[ SNIP ]--- I'm trying to fill out a display that I am organizing for a local museum. I need the following: Apple I. Apple II, IMSAI 8080, ALTAIR, Mark-8, IBM 5100, HP 9830, Arkay CT-650, Minivac 601, SIMON. (They do not have to be working.) Any help you can give me in acquiring these PCs will be appreciated. Thanks, Jim ---[ SNIP ]--- Jim is collecting for the Anderson County History Museum and can be reached at jc3435NOSPAM at charterNOSPAM.net - removing the obvious. Some of what he's looking for is improbable, but some is more common. -- Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum

21 years, 2 months

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DDD drive alignment

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

A "DDD Alignment System" is an alignment system using a "Digitial Diagnostic Disk(ette)" The DDD is a very special diskette that has various tracks and sectors recorded on the disk intentionally misaligned. By knowing how the disk was made (which sectors were misaligned, in which direction, and by how much), and by seeing which sectors can and cannot be read, the exact alignment status of a drive can be tested without an oscilloscope or any other test equipment. All that you need is the DDD disk and a software program that matches the disk and the disk controller of the target system. Dysan made these, and perhaps others did also. I have some here for 8" and 5.25" drives. They are good for checking the alignment, but they are kind of useless for actually adjusting it if it's off. However, my recollection is that they ALSO have the analog "cats eye" tracks on them for alignment with an oscilloscope.

21 years, 2 months

1
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Xerox 820 documentation.

by gsarno＠nortel.com

Re-sending as error reported: Sorry if you got it twice. Hi , Thanks for your answer. I should now have a disk with the system and PIP (I don't know whether it would boot though, I haven't tested it yet) Anyway I was looking at how I could use PIP to transfer the data but I only managed to find some examples Using the AUX: connector which I think is CP/M 3 (+) and not 2.2 which is the version on the 820. Do you know more on how I can use the PIP command ? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Dwight K. Elvey [mailto:dwight.elvey at amd.com] Sent: 16 March 2005 23:04 To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Cc: Sarno, Giuseppe [MOP:GM15:EXCH] Subject: Re: Xerox 820 documentation. >From: "Giuseppe Sarno" <gsarno at nortel.com> > >Hi I own an Old Xerox 820 machine, >Can anyone help to find documentation for it ? >Also is there a way to download programs onto it using the >serial/parallel port ? > >I have seen some info at >http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-September/002642.html ><http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-September/002642.html> >but I couldn't find more. > >Thanks. > Hi You didn't mention if you have a disk that boots and has PIP under CP/M on it. If you do, you can transfer information as ASCII like a BASIC source program or even transfer .COM files by first converting them to .HEX files and then using DDT on the 820 to move them to .COM files. If you are attempting to bootstrap with no disk, you'll have to check with others. One may be able to do it if it has a built in debug monitor. Of course, on can always write some of ones own code and replace one of the internal EPROMs. It is not as impossible as it sounds. You just have to explore a little. Dwight

21 years, 2 months

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Rare Apples, eBay, Goodwill

by cb＠mythtech.net

>Charity shops in the US are increasingly not carrying computer goods, >mainly because if they end up being unsaleable crap they have to pay high >disposal fees. The one that used to be near me didn't sell computers because of support issues. They started out selling them, then found that no matter how much they marked it "all sales as is and final", people would come back and ask for support getting the machine to work correctly. So they started tossing the computers that were donated, and selling the rest of the items that came with it (monitor, keyboard, mouse, cables, printers, software, speakers... anything but the CPU itself). Alas, they don't exist any more, the owner of the building felt a Salvation Army store wasn't the right "image" for his property... so he kicked them out. I was sad for a while, but now a japanese resturant is going into the building, so I'm happy again. (now if I can just find another goodwill type store in the area to start visiting) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

21 years, 2 months

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$2000 Black Apple (?) - scam ?

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

H guys, Couple of weeks ago, I was contacted by a guy who said he had seen my site, and has an "Black Apple" (Bell and Howell edition of Apple II for schools) that he would like to sell. Says condition is "unknown", and that the monitor does not work. From correspondance with him, I have determined that he has the main unit, two drives of which one is B&H label (no boxes for the hardware), the dead monitor, no docs, and "lots of software" which is all copies except for one original boxed game. Said I was one of several people he had contacted, and asked for a "bid" - I responded by asking him for a price - he said $150, which I thought was high, and considering that I would have to ship it here (US -> Canada), I said "thanks but no thanks", and asked him to let me know if he lowered his price (because I would like to have a B&H Apple in the collection again)... He's left me on his mailing list, and since than has reported that he had an offer for $500, then $1000, and this morning he says he has an offer for $2000. I corresponded with him again and he says: >ok right now got offer for 2000 from people in uk. have 2 different people >in uk that want it for good money. This seems completely ludicrous to me --- I know B&H Apples are considered desirable by some, but $2000 (and shipping from US->UK)!!! ??? Smells like a scam... (?) Whats a B&H Apple worth these days? Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 2 months

2
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Book inside out

by RCini＠congressfinancial.com

Jim: No, not at all...the timing is off. I think that the Inside Out book was keyed off of Microsoft's 25th anniversary, while Andy's book came out in December. Incidentially, Microsoft was founded as a partnership on September 5, 1975. A search on Amazon reveals that the publication date of "Inside Out" was September, 2000 while "Revolution in the Valley" has a publication date of December 1, 2004. Rich -----Original Message----- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:trixter at oldskool.org] Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 11:24 PM To: rcini at optonline.net; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Book inside out Richard A. Cini wrote: > Yes. I'm about 2/3 the way through. I read in-depth the contributions from > names I recognize; the others I skimmed. I find the typography and layout > hard to read -- like Wired magazine when it first came out. I like the > stories from the early days. Is there any indication that this book is a reaction to Andy H.'s Apple book? -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/

21 years, 2 months

1
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Looking for NextStep 3.3 Developer CD

by shirsch＠adelphia.net

All, Can someone with a copy of the NextStep 3.3 Developer CD help me out? If so, please contact me off-list. Steve

21 years, 2 months

1
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Unexpected floppy behavior...

by wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net

Well, unexpected by me anyway. I've built a data sep circuit >from that schematic I asked for advice on earlier. Works like a champ. I tied the circuit into a piece of ribbon cable so that I could pretty much attach any drive I wanted to try with it plus still be able to keep my OSI more-or-less unmodified and use the original drive. The drives I am using are a pair of Toshiba FDD 5451s. After testing each drive individually, I attached another IDC card edge connector to my setup and tried again. Nothing worked! Not only did it not work, it trashed the diskette I was testing with. Went back to one at a time and everything worked again. After a good bit of trying to figure out what was wrong, I discovered that the +5 volt pin in the power connector I was using for the #2 (B) drive had pushed out of the nylon plug so that the drive was unpowered. Having either of the drives unpowered on the cable caused the other drive to screw up. The two drives cooperate just fine when both have power. I don't remember ever seeing this kind of problem before... I seem to remember having unpowered drives hanging off of cables with no ill effects. I guess that some of the signals (write gate for instance) must be getting pulled low by the unpowered unit. Is this normal floppy behavior and I'm just remembering wrong? Thanks, Bill

21 years, 2 months

4
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Goodwill stores

by news＠computercollector.com

Heard back from the Goodwill spokeswoman. Obviously she doesn't know much about our hobby, but she sounded genuinely interested. Here's what she had to say, as published in this week's Computer Collector Newsletter... -------------------------------------------- >> WELCOME TO THE COMPUTER COLLECTOR NEWSLETTER >> W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news at computercollector.com >> Vol. 4, #12: March 21, 2005: News/opinion, tidbits, classifieds > > This week's issue: > 1. Goodwill stores > 2. Custom Apple II games > 3. Amiga East 2005 > 4. Slide rule retro > > **************************************** > We really want to hear from you! What's unique about your collection? > What article topics should we explore? What crazy experience did you > have with a vintage machine, now or when it was new? Please tell us > what is on your mind at news at computercollector.com. > > **************************************** > NEWS & OPINION > > Recently there's been discussion of finding vintage computers at > Goodwill stores, via the classiccmp.org's cctalk mailing list. How > can we as collectors ensure that significant items aren't disposed of? > > Goodwill Industries International, the umbrella organization for 200 > independent agencies, does not set master policies for the operations > of its 1,874 stores in the U.S., 75 in Canada, and one online (the > address is http://www.shopgoodwill.com, but it's up to each store to > determine which items are posted). About two-thirds of the stores > accept computers, although there is no master list of which stores > specifically. The only way to find out is to contact the stores -- > information is at http://locator.goodwill.org and (800)664-6577. > > But what can computer collectors do to salvage, say, a pre-release > prototype of an IBM 5100? "Shop early and shop often" is the approach > taken by collectors of most sorts, spokeswoman Christine Bragale > noted. Bargains for computer collectors are especially likely to be > found at the Goodwill Computer Works stores in Santa Ana, Calif. > (http://www.ocgoodwill.org/computer_works/index.html) and Austin, > Texas (http://www.austincomputerworks.org/contact.html) -- the Austin > location even has its own computer museum slated to re-open in May. > > Store managers are generally alert for valuables, at least since > someone found an original Picasso etching in a $3 throwaway pile a few > years ago, Bragale said. "The donations attendant who had sorted it > saw a broken frame and a picture of a nude," hardly something Goodwill > would normally carry, she explained. Luckily that was noticed in time > and sold at auction, she said. Vintage computer hobbyists are > encouraged to volunteer for sorting duty at their local stores. > > *************************************** > BOOKS FROM THE CCN STAFF: > > >> Buy your copy of "Collectible Microcomputers" directly from author > Michael Nadeau: http://www.classictechpub.com. This amazing book > includes more than 700 computers with details and pricing. > > >> "Computer Collector Newsletter's Guide to U.S. Computer Museums, > 2005 Edition". Booklet examines 21 museums and includes GPS > coordinates. It costs $6 ($10 for two), with $1 S&H per every two > copies. PayPal to news at computercollector.com. > > >> Christine Finn's "Artifacts: An archeologist's year in Silicon > Valley" is the story of the change from farmlands to high-tech. Buy > it directly from MIT Press at http://tinyurl.com/6rllz (also see > Christine's blog http://traumwerk.stanford.edu:3455/ChristineFinn/9). > > **************************************** > This week's vintage gaming news from Armchair Arcade > (http://www.armchairarcade.com): > > -- Do you remember Mystery House, the classic Apple II game from > Sierra? Now you can play custom versions; the details are at > http://www.armchairarcade.com/aamain/news.php?extend.277. > > **************************************** > TIDBITS > > -- Amiga East 2005 will be held May 28-29 at the Marriott Courtyard > adjacent to New York City's LaGuardia airport. This year is the > Amiga's 20th anniversary. Tickets are $20 per day or $25 for both > days. For more information please visit http://tinyurl.com/3nwzr. > > -- First I thought the binary wristwatches at ThinkGeek.com were the > coolest ones around (http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/watches/6a17/). > Then I thought the new PalmOS wristwatch from Fossil took the top > honor (http://tinyurl.com/5canr). Now I'm into ThinkGeek's slide rule > watch (http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/watches/74ce/zoom/). How cool > is this!? Which would you rather have? (And will it run CP/M?) > > **************************************** > CLASSIFIEDS > > This week's classifieds are sponsored by the Vintage Computer > Marketplace at marketplace.vintage.org. > > For sale: > 1. Full Apple III Setup: > http://vintage-computer.com/vcforum/viewtopic.php?t=1674 > 2. Vic 20 setup: > http://vintage-computer.com/vcforum/viewtopic.php?t=1671 > 3. Commodore 64 lot: > http://vintage-computer.com/vcforum/viewtopic.php?t=1668 > > Wanted: > 1. Commodore Pet: > http://www.vintage-computer.com/pet2001.shtml > 2. Commodore 1084 monitor bezel: > http://vintage-computer.com/vcforum/viewtopic.php?t=1673 > > **************************************** > SPONSORED LINKS: > > >> For more buy/sell/trade opportunities, please visit the Vintage > Computer Forum at www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum. > > >> VintageTech provides services such as patent litigation support, > prior art research, vintage computer consulting, movie and photography > props, media and data conversion, appraisals, and sales brokering. > Visit us: www.vintagetech.com. > > >> Special thanks to EvenLink LLC for sponsoring our domain name and > e-mail hosting. Please visit http://www.evenlink.com for details. > > **************************************** > HAPPY VINTAGE COMPUTING! ----------------------------------------------------- Evan's personal homepage: www.snarc.net *** Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! - It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address - Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us - Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all - W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news at computercollector.com - We're approaching 700 readers: win a prize!

21 years, 2 months

1
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classic cmputer siting

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

7:50pm CST, The Weather Channel on Charter cable tv, "Storm Stories" Sighted in background, two data general Nova 3's in nice blue racks :) Jay

21 years, 2 months

3
3
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PDP 11/45 Further success! (and a question)

by jim＠g1jbg.co.uk

Hi All, I replaced the UBC today (I found a serviceable spare of the same version in our works stores, last tested 1994....), and I can now key in a program, examine it and run it. I now need to concentrate on the PSU, before I start putting the rest of the cards back. I must also repair my UBC, in case work decides they want theirs back (unlikely, but you can never tell with bean counters). Now a question, I used the light flasher program: location contents opcode 001000 012700 mov #1,r0 001002 000001 001004 006100 rol r0 001006 000005 reset 001010 000775 br -4 and it will run, however, I don't see the data lights "chase" across the console. If I single step, the program performs as expected, with the data lights going across the panel (data switch in "Data Paths" position). Also, if I run the program and halt it, the light appear at a different data bit depending on how long I let the program run (I can continue the program and it will move to a different bitn at the next halt). Am I doing something stupid, or are the bulbs just too slow to display the data? (I suppose it could be a function of the power supply fault, but I don't think it would manifest itself in this way). Thanks Jim. Please see our website the " Vintage Communication Pages" at WWW.G1JBG.CO.UK

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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Tek XD88 images and stuff

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

I threw together some *really* quick pages about my Tek XD88 at: http://www.patooie.com/comps/tek/index.html I *think* it's all legal HTML and all the links work. No guarantee about typos though, it was late when I wrote most of the text :-) Off-list comments about any rendering issues are welcome (particularly Firefox / IE users), as I've only got Opera here to test with. I suspect I'll maybe need to incorporate stylesheet stuff so that fonts will render reasonably consistently across platforms / browsers. Coincidentally, I found a pile of "What's new in Computing" magazines at the weekend from the late 80's / early 90's - I've found a few little snippets about the XD88 line there which I'll have to scan in and incorporate. cheers J.

21 years, 2 months

3
3
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[OT] Neo Geo cabinet problem

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

I've got a 4 slot Neo Geo cabinet that is starting to act flaky. It's always had problems if I put to many new games (I'm guessing the higher bit games take more power), and now I've seen the video freak out a couple times in the last week. The first time it looked like it was rolling (I rushed over and turned it off so am not totally sure. This last time I was playing a game and it shifted left and jaggy, but then when I finished the game it popped back to normal, and seems to have stayed that way for a while. Anyone have any ideas? I'm suspecting it's either the powersupply, or possibly the 4-slot motherboard. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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Traditional minicomputer expendables...

by tomj＠wps.com

I need some advice on finding a few expendables: * non-lint swabs for cleaning hard disk heads. I've googled a bunch of likely suspects, intended for the electronics industry, of appropriate size, but does anyone use such a thing you've found to be suitable, before I leap into the terrifying unknown (all of $9.95's worth)? Obviiously to be dunked in 99% isopropyl. * "Rotron Filtercoat". Sticky aerosol goo you spray onto aluminum mesh filters to trap dust. My lab is really dusty. The rack has a nice airbox at the bottom with noisy fan. Any suggestions as to a replacement for this long-lost product or workalike?

21 years, 2 months

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Xerox 820 documentation.

by gsarno＠nortel.com

Hi , Thanks for your answer. I should now have a disk with the system and PIP (I don't know whether it would boot though, I haven't tested it yet) Anyway I was looking at how I could use PIP to transfer the data but I only managed to find some examples Using the AUX: connector which I think is CP/M 3 (+) and not 2.2 which is the version on the 820. Do you know more on how I can use the PIP command ? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Dwight K. Elvey [mailto:dwight.elvey at amd.com] Sent: 16 March 2005 23:04 To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Cc: Sarno, Giuseppe [MOP:GM15:EXCH] Subject: Re: Xerox 820 documentation. >From: "Giuseppe Sarno" <gsarno at nortel.com> > >Hi I own an Old Xerox 820 machine, >Can anyone help to find documentation for it ? >Also is there a way to download programs onto it using the >serial/parallel port ? > >I have seen some info at >http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-September/002642.html ><http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-September/002642.html> >but I couldn't find more. > >Thanks. > Hi You didn't mention if you have a disk that boots and has PIP under CP/M on it. If you do, you can transfer information as ASCII like a BASIC source program or even transfer .COM files by first converting them to .HEX files and then using DDT on the 820 to move them to .COM files. If you are attempting to bootstrap with no disk, you'll have to check with others. One may be able to do it if it has a built in debug monitor. Of course, on can always write some of ones own code and replace one of the internal EPROMs. It is not as impossible as it sounds. You just have to explore a little. Dwight

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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$2000 Black Apple (?) - scam ?

by cb＠mythtech.net

>$355 with 15 bids and 20 >hours remaining. The pics aren't loading for me, but the description says >it is near mint condition. I could see it getting up to $500 before it >closes, but $2000... I'd be surprised. Oh yeah, and one sold last week on ebay (no drives, not tested) for $182... so IF the guy really has an untested unit he is able to sell for $2000... he is one lucky SOB. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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Anyone know anything about crays ?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Mar 21 2005, 22:11, Dan Williams wrote: > I am getting an el98 cray from 1996 (I know it's OT). Anyone know > anything about these ?. I can't wait to take it up 3 flights of stairs > and I might need to slowly break it to the missus. But I couldn't > resist... Stairs? I have a friend, not far from here, who has two EL98s and a "small" T3E. They don't do stairs ;-) The 17" monitor on the top of the one in this picture: http://www.austinfs.fsnet.co.uk/machines/cray_el98.html will give some idea of scale. That's the smaller of the pair. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 2 months

1
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Looking for PERQ

by brian.russell＠iclway.co.uk

Hi Ian, I have just now managed to re-establish my link to cctech-classiccmp and found you posting. My reply has already been sent. yes, I still have two PERQs that I will be getting rid of once I have got the software archived. Regards, Brian.

21 years, 2 months

1
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Rare Apples, eBay, Goodwill

by dvcorbin＠optonline.net

----- Original Message ----- David H. Barr wrote: <big snip> >>>outmoded technology, and some must needs simply wash their hands of >>> the whole mess. Alas, you are correct. But things can be a little better if.... a) Collectors such as those on this list make themselves known to organizations such as TheGoodwill b) "Managers" at the various facilities at least let people know of the existance of others who would / might have an interest in the items Not always possible...but always worth a try.

21 years, 2 months

3
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Anyone know anything about crays ?

by williams.dan＠gmail.com

I am getting an el98 cray from 1996 (I know it's OT). Anyone know anything about these ?. I can't wait to take it up 3 flights of stairs and I might need to slowly break it to the missus. But I couldn't resist... Dan

21 years, 2 months

8
7
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RS/6000 drive questions

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

Is it like a F30? I have a RS/6000 running AIX with a DDS2 DAT tape and CD-ROM drive running right behind me. It has a 3 1/2" floppy mounted on edge in the right most position, a SCSI CD-ROM drive mounted on edge next to the floppy, a DDS2 DAT tape drive and then an empty position. I'll attempt to find the manual. Thanks Mike

21 years, 2 months

1
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Rare Apples, eBay, Goodwill

by news＠computercollector.com

I'd just call the stores and ask: http://locator.goodwill.org/ --- Jim Leonard <trixter at oldskool.org> wrote: > William Layer wrote: > > - While eBay prices are to be taken as a general mix of legtimacy, > ignorance, greed, stupidity and outright scamming, Goodwill prices aren't > that much more 'helpful' either. Unless they have a good 'picker' doing the > pricing, Goodwill and their ilk have a mission to sell old junk for the > cheap. We've all had impossibly lucky finds at these places.. > > This is just killing me: What are common names/organizations for "goodwill" > stores? I have never once been to a goodwill place that had anything > computer-related, only clothing for the most part. I am clearly looking in > the > wrong places!! Where should I be checking in my local area? > -- > Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) > http://www.oldskool.org/ > Want to help an ambitious games project? > http://www.mobygames.com/ > Or check out some trippy MindCandy at > http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ > Evan's personal homepage: www.snarc.net *** Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! - It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address - Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us - Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all - W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news at computercollector.com - We're approaching 700 readers: win a prize!

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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Flash longevity

by vp＠cs.drexel.edu

"Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Ugggg... sorry. It wasn't a swap partition I created in flash. It was an OS > install partition (to install the OS FROM, not to). [...] This is very weird, although some automated installations perform a defect scan on the "target drive" and this will destroy the Flash. I tend to install the OS on a RAM disk and then dd the image to the Flash. If your system has vnconfig(8) you can create the RAM disk very easily, although you can get the same effect using VMWAre. **vp

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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Light pens?

by kapteynr＠cboe.com

I have a "home made" light pen on my Altair. There was an article in one of the early BYTE magazines on how to do it. It is just a phototransistor stuck into a fat ballpoint pen body on a long wire. The circuitry is very simple -- you adjust a threshold at which the transistor triggers an processor interrupt. When you get the interrupt, you software reads the scan position of the monitor from a register in the video card. The Cromemco VDM-1 allows this. We had a very simple drawing program that read the pen position and toggled the background color of characters underneath. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 6:09 PM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Light pens? > Okay, now my age and lack of experience is going to show: Can someone explain > to me exactly *how* a light pen works? What is the feedback mechanism if A light pen is beaically a small light detector (normally a phototransistor) that detects the ligth from the screen. Since the image on the screen is scanned (either as a raster, or as vectors), you get a pulse from the light pne output as the part of the image that the light pen is aimed at is being refreshed. Typcially, on raster scan systems (like almsot all microcomputers), the CRT controller takes the light pen signal and uses it to latch the current video RAM address, or the X/Y coordinates, or something like that. The latched values can then be read out by the processor. > drawing on, say, a completely black screen? How does the computer get It can't. Period. Any comptuer/light pen that claims to is doing one of 2 things. Either displaying, say, a 3*3 array of pixels under the light pen, and the computer moves said pattern to keep the middle pixel under the light pen (this is how a lot of vector displays did it -- if the light pen posiition is 'lost' for any reason, it was typical to sweep a line across the screen, then down the screen, to find it again) Or more likely, the 'black' screen isn't totally black, but a very dark grey or something. Dark enough that _you_ don't notice it, but the light pen does -tony

21 years, 2 months

2
1
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Rare Apples, eBay, Goodwill

by news＠computercollector.com

That piqued my curiousity. So I just called the Goodwill hq's media department; they're allegedly calling me back soon. Going to seek clarification on their thoughts about collecting/collectors. --- "David H. Barr" <dhbarr at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Yes, it is a regional decision. Evan's personal homepage: www.snarc.net *** Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! - It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address - Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us - Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all - W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news at computercollector.com - We're approaching 700 readers: win a prize!

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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archiving data, was RE: Media Longitevity/Care (Long perhaps OT)

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

I think one thing everyone forgets is there are appropriate high and low tech options for each archiving task. Example #1 About 10 years ago one of the university medical groups decided to scrap their old billing computer and I was tasked to come up with an archive media. I looked at microfiche, microfilm, and paper. Cost was a consideration. We also had a "large" dataproducts chain printer not being used. We finally decided on paper since we knew we would be going through 2 new billing systems in 4 years. Sorted all of the accounts by SSN and then printed out 57 boxes of green bar and placed it all in binders. Advantages It's a lot harder to loose a binder of greenbar than one microfiche. We would have to purchase a microfilm reader and capital expenditures were considered once a year. We had 10 clerks that might want to find an account, parallel usage easy. Disadvantages Lots of moving of binders sometimes to find the correct one, clerks just happened to find me when they needed to move a bunch. Nearly went deaf listening to printer. My time was not a consideration I was equivalent to a graduate student. Example #2 We collected thirty 12" CMSI optical disks of x-ray images from a medical scanner, 1 GB per disk. This was the required archive media for the system. We initially tried to move the data via thick cable DECNET and via a coax based Thomas Conrad Network systems network. Transfer was very slow. Decided to purchase an additional 12" drive and interface it to our MicroVax II, the dreaded sneakernet was then implemented. Our 9-track tapes would hold one 40 MB image per tape if we wanted to save any manipulated images. I offered to copy the disks from the 12" opticals to CD's however the hospital had film and decided that was sufficient. 12" media and drives are now long obsolete. I assume they still have the packs and no disk drives. Example #3 We still have 8" floppy, dat tapes, MO disks and CD's from different medical devices. I usually try to hang on to the tape drives when for example a mobile MRI scanner leaves. Biggest problem is that some of the disks are not file structured in the normal sense. They are some manufacturer's proprietary internal format. There is a standard but it's no help to understand usage of data. What do you do about numbers, special characters and non English characters in a patient last name? Mike

21 years, 2 months

5
5
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Unexpected floppy behavior...

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Bill Sudbrink" <wh.sudbrink at verizon.net> > >Well, unexpected by me anyway. I've built a data sep circuit >from that schematic I asked for advice on earlier. Works like >a champ. I tied the circuit into a piece of ribbon cable so >that I could pretty much attach any drive I wanted to try with >it plus still be able to keep my OSI more-or-less unmodified >and use the original drive. The drives I am using are a pair >of Toshiba FDD 5451s. After testing each drive individually, >I attached another IDC card edge connector to my setup and >tried again. Nothing worked! Not only did it not work, it >trashed the diskette I was testing with. Went back to one >at a time and everything worked again. After a good bit of >trying to figure out what was wrong, I discovered that the >+5 volt pin in the power connector I was using for the #2 (B) >drive had pushed out of the nylon plug so that the drive was >unpowered. Having either of the drives unpowered on the cable >caused the other drive to screw up. The two drives cooperate >just fine when both have power. I don't remember ever seeing >this kind of problem before... I seem to remember having unpowered >drives hanging off of cables with no ill effects. I guess that >some of the signals (write gate for instance) must be getting >pulled low by the unpowered unit. Is this normal floppy >behavior and I'm just remembering wrong? > >Thanks, >Bill > Hi Bill Remember, things are active low. If the terminator was unpowered, it will pull the write gate to active ( trashing the disk ). If the drive that is unpowered is not the one with the terminator, it may not have been able to pull the lines high enough. Still, an unpowered drive should load the lines some. This is not a good thing. Dwight

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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Low-Level PC Formatting Using Debug Commands

by websupport＠degnanco.com

I have been looking for this information for a long time. I have an XT that had never been initialized, now I can proceed. Up to this point I had no success. Thank you! Bill Degnan > >> >> I just ran across this and thought it might be of interest for anyone >> doing a low level format on a PC (not AT) type controllers. It was >> taken from a February 13, 1989 issue of Tech Times that appears to be >> a ComputerLand Confidential publication (this is a copy.) My usual >> procedure was to unassemble C800:5 or C800:6 and G=????:? the address >> that was a jmp instruction. I've never used the :800 or tried to >> format a Xebec controller. >> >> ******************* >> >> Company Debug Command >> Adaptec -G=C800:CCC >> DTC -G=C800:5 >> Omti -G=C800:6 >> Western Digital -G=C800:5 or >> -G=c800:800 >> Xebec Series of commands >> -l322 >> -l321 >> -o322 0 >> -l321 >> -o320 04 >> -0320 00 >> -o320 00 >> -0320 00 >> -0320 05 >> -0320 07 (use 17 if embedded servo dr) >> At this point, the LED on the drive should come on to indicate that >> the drive is formatting. When the light goes off, coninue: >> -l321 >> -l320 >> The last entry should get 00 status back, indicating a successful >> format. > >I remember that old Xebec routine. It was always a little >nerve-wracking as you got no feedback until deep into the procedure. I >have a file folder full of old hard drive/controller lore that one day I >should scan and make available. > >If I am remembering correctly, the Xebec controller was the one >originally used in the IBM-XT machines. > >------------------------------ -- E N D --

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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Rare Apples, eBay, Goodwill

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

>Just a few random comments: > > - 'Rare' Mac128.. Twas not my intention to bring about a argument on the value of Macs - I simply happned upon one while looking for the B&H AppleII and used it as an example - I can site many examples of Ebay items which have gone fairly well over what I consider to be a reasonable value for the item. > - While eBay prices are to be taken as a general mix of legtimacy, ignorance, >greed, stupidity and outright scamming, Goodwill prices aren't that much more >'helpful' either. Unless they have a good 'picker' doing the pricing, Goodwill >and their ilk have a mission to sell old junk for the cheap. We've all had >impossibly lucky finds at these places.. With anything as old and varied as the items we collect, price/value is really in the eye of the beholder, and can vary all over the map. I happened to mention Goodwill because it was the last place I picked up a Mac 128 (and it was a true 128) - Saw three of them go in a local newsgroup last year for under $20 each, and could have used that example ... Also seen them go for much higher on Ebay ... Very rarely do I see an item sell in local market for higher than Ebay, but very often the other way around - I still assert that Ebay prices should be viewed either with skepticism, or at least as a marker for the high end of the scale. The sad truth is that much of the material that we value and collect is considered worthless by the majority of people - many of the items in my collection were donations, including some that I would place a decent $$$ value on - Ebay manages to reach enough people that somebody somewhere wants it, and by virtue of the way it works, it sells at the highest price that they are willing to pay (or at least just above the highest price that the next bidder would have paid) - that doesn't mean that these prices are indicitave of a reasonable average value for an item. By the same token, Goodwill represents the lowest end of the scale (after all, someone GAVE it to them) - the true average value for an item will probably lie somewhere in between Goodwill and Ebay. > - My favorite eBay canard re: Macs is the "I opened it up to have a look, and >it's SIGNED on the back cover!!!!". Of course, they are all signed up until the >Classic era (I think the sigs went away with the new case, but I could be wrong). IIRC, the sigs were in the Original, Fat and the Plus, which are all essentially the same plastics (with vents on top) - with the SE and forced air cooling, the plastics changed and the sigs were dropped - Classics are the third style of small mac plastics (also without sigs). Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 2 months

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Looking for PERQ

by silvercreekvalley＠yahoo.com

Hi, I used a PERQ 1 some time ago, and it would be great to get one of these old machines up and running again. Does anyone have one of these for sale/trade/etc? I'm based in CA but can also collect >from the UK (I visit quite frequently). Cheers Ian. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

21 years, 2 months

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Catweasel (MK3) floppy controller question..

by tim＠tim-mann.org

> Does anyone know of a program I can use (preferably under Linux, but DOS > would probably work as well) to read a flux-transition level image off a > disk using a catweasel card? I'm trying to read some 2.4MB (5.25") > floppies from an IBM 3174 controller (using an 2.4MB floppy drive), and > am able to read in 1.2MB floppies using cw2dmk just fine, but it doesn't > do so well at processing the (aparently) mixed-density floppy I've been > screwing with since yesterday. Using the "testhist" program included > with cw2dmk, I can get information about the "unreadable" tracks, but > cw2dmk won't process them. I'm trying to make a backup image of a disk > so that I'm not screwed when the disk stops being readable... If you give testhist one more argument (a filename), it will dump the Catweasel's sample buffer to that file. That's a flux-transition level image. I don't have anything that will write such an image directly back to a disk, though. You could write a program to do it by removing most of the guts from dmk2cw. However, I don't know how readable such a disk would be. I don't really trust a process that doesn't include decoding the data, doing retries if it has a bad CRC, manually trying read-postcompensation (-o flag to cw2dmk) if that still doesn't work, and writing the data back with write-precompensation. If this data is just MFM in an IBM/ISO-style format at a higher clock rate, you probably can read it with cw2dmk by playing with enough of its options. You'll need -1 and -2 to set lower thresholds between short, medium, and long intervals (they should be about halfway between the peaks that testhist gives you), and -l to make the DMK track length twice as long as for a 1.2 MB disk. You may need to play with -o too, especially if you can read lower track numbers but higher ones keep getting CRC errors. I'd also suggest using the highest (28.322 MHz) Catweasel clock rate for these disks, seeing that you have a MK3. (The MK1 doesn't support this rate.) You'll need to give 4 as the clock rate to testhist to get a new set of peaks, and then give the -c 4 option to cw2dmk. There's still not a way to write this image back, though, as dmk2cw doesn't offer enough control from the command line. After you find a set of parameters that work in cw2dmk, define a new kind_desc in kind.h and recompile. You can then write disks that use these parameters with dmk2cw, and more conveniently read them in cw2dmk using one -k option instead of all the individual options I listed above. Feel free to email me if you need more help. -- Tim Mann tim at tim-mann.org http://tim-mann.org/

21 years, 2 months

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