- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by anheier＠owt.com

A business trip has me going to Albuquerque next week and I have Monday afternoon free. Can anyone suggest some must see computer surplus shops? Thanks Norm

21 years, 2 months

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HEC4 Electronic Computer

by marvin＠rain.org

While again searching for radio stuff :), I ran across this website in Australia with an interesting article written in 1954 about the Morgan Crucible Co. Ltd, and how they justified their purchase of the HEC4 Electronic Computer. From the first few paragraphs: "The computer selected was the HEC4 Electronic Computer designed by the British Tabulating Machine Co (later becoming ICT and then ICL - who re-named it the ICT 1201), which was used with modified Hollerith punched card equipment for I/O peripherals. Systems were designed to use conventional 80 column punched card equipment for much processing (sorters, collators, tabulators and reproducers). Details of this machine are described in a second article below. Both articles were published in the "Electronic Engineers Reference Book" for 1958. The cost of the machine was about ?30,000." Also included are the specifications of this machine: Specifications of ICT HEC4 HEC4 Brief Specifications P.R.F. 38.4 kc/s Number base Binary Mode Serial Word Time 1.25 milliseconds Word length 39 and sign Instruction type 1 operand; 1 next instruction Magnetic Drum 3,000 rpm; 64 tracks; 1024 words; track switching 5 milliseconds; 18.75 milliseconds max. access Quick Access stores 2 words Add or Subtract 2.5 milliseconds Multiply 800 milliseconds max.; 240 milliseconds ave (slow) 50 milliseconds max.; 22.5 milliseconds ave (fast) Divide 48.75 milliseconds Punched cards 100 cards per minute (in); 100 cards per minute (out) Printer 100 lines per minute; 100 characters per line Price ?30,000 http://www.vk2bv.org/sb/hec4.htm

21 years, 2 months

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MOS Kim-1 Any idea of it's worth/value?

by us21090＠yahoo.com

/* coming out of the shadows.... */ I'm planning on exhibiting my MOS Kim-1 at the Trenton Computer Festival (http://www.tcf-nj.org) and it occurred to me that I don't know what this computer is worth (whatever that means). My Kim-1 works and is a Rev B MOS unit, with original blue-cover manuals (as well as home brew case and a home brew 2k memory expansion). The only data point I have is a recent ebay auction, where 2 working Kim-1s, nice enclosures, Kim Extender Interface, 4 memory cards, S100 breadboarding card, issues of "Micro", etc went for $642. The item description doesn't mention Rev #, or even whether its a MOS or Commodore (though the photo shows *white* manuals). So... roughly $300 for a Kim-1? Thanks! Scott __________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun. http://www.advision.webevents.yahoo.com/emoticontest

21 years, 2 months

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[OT]Tasted freecycling group. Wanted:offered ratio too high

by cb＠mythtech.net

>I registed to a local freecycling group. I receive several tens of >emails each day. 80 percent are wanting and 20 percent are offering. I >would expect the reversed ratio. Why would you expect the reverse? Do you have 80% more items to give away then what you would like to take? -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

21 years, 2 months

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DEC Power Supply - QBA11-VA

by technobug＠comcast.net

I just rescued a power supply and power entry module from what remained of a QBA11-VA. From what remained of the housing it looked like a disk/tape/CDROM enclosure. Available for the cost of shipping. CRC

21 years, 2 months

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rx01 w/o controller board

by GOOI＠oce.nl

Hi Brad, the connection from the controller board (UNIBUS or QBUS) is a straight cable AFAIK. The RX01 and RX02 exist as a table top box and uses a DB25 connector to the controller. If you want to make a complete RX01 drive, the first thing to check is the *bottom*. Since many parts have been removed for perhaps completing other drives, check if the drive belt is still there on each drive! The RX01/RX02 drives have *two* boards mounted on top of the disk drives and they cover bothe drives, so they are not smallish. Tony gave (as usual) a good description. I was surprised to read that the two boards are somehow matched. That is a pity because I have two *sets*, and since one board has a rather high connector (relative to the other components on that board, and the other board is a bit smaller, I have put those two boards together. So there is a chance that they are kept as a set togethre but I am not 100% sure. I have also a complete power supply, but it is wired for Europe, that is, it is set for 230/240 VAC 50 Hz. I don't know if there are taps on the transformer to make it work at 110 V. Neither if it can cope with 60 Hz. And I have also the fan and air plenum that is mounted on the back of the drives ... > Sounds like you have rather a lot to find. > > -tony Well, it looks that I have all what you need. I stripped an RX01 just a few weeks ago, and the only parts that I threw away is the metal front (heavily scratched) and the metal frame on which all is mounted). Small problem though, the power supply is heavy ... and I live in The Netherlands ! BTW, I do not have spare belts :~) - Henk, PA8PDP.

21 years, 2 months

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The SC/MP is finally alive!

by river＠zip.com.au

Hi, Found the problem with the SC/MP. I don't have the SC/MP programming manual but have figured out there was a difference of opinion between me and TASM on a few instructions. I now understand all the SC/MP instructions and TASM's expectations. Anyway, it's advanced from the prototype breadboard stage and it's now a permanent system - all soldered and complete. For those that are interested, it's a SC/MP II (ISPA/600D) running at 2.048Mhz. It's got 2 x 4K (2732) EPROM, 2 x 2K (6116) RAM, 1 x 8251 USART and 1 x 8255 PPI. I've got the comms and PPI working a treat and now I've got to embark on the fun task of creating a debug/monitor for it. Does anyone else here build old stuff like this? Or do you build your own debug and monitor software? Any experimenters/builders here? river

21 years, 2 months

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Test -- please ignore

by news＠computercollector.com

This is a test, please ignore. ----------------------------------------- Evan Koblentz's personal homepage: www.snarc.net *** Tell your friends about the (free!) Computer Collector Newsletter - 700 readers and no spam / Publishes every Monday / Write for us! - Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all - W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news at computercollector.com

21 years, 2 months

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input sought for list

by KParker＠workcover.com

Hi Jay - be happy to help you give the site a spruce up Here are some samples of my work www.workcover.com www.maqohsc.sa.gov.au www.region2ops.on.net (this concept would make a good ClassicCMP web site :-) www.advancedimaging.com.au www.barossashops.com www.gawlershops.com www.salvationarmy.org.au/gawler ++++++++++ Kevin Parker Web Services Consultant WorkCover Corporation p: 08 8233 2548 m: 0418 806 166 e: kparker at workcover.com w: www.workcover.com ++++++++++ -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay West Sent: Wednesday, 6 April 2005 3:12 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: input sought for list I'm looking for input from the list as to things that should be in the classiccmp list FAQ. I've got lots of ideas, but want to hit ideas I may not have thought of (I'm old, I forget ;)) If you have any text you think should be included in the FAQ, or ideas you'd like me to come up with text for, please email me offlist for review. In addition, I think it's high time to spruce up the classiccmp website. I'm not a web developer, so if anyone is good with HTML and would like to help maintain the classiccmp website, email me, your services would be appreciated! Along the same lines, I'm also looking for suggestions to improve the classiccmp website as to content and features. Any thoughts are appreciated! Regards, Jay West ************************************************************************ This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee only. It may contain information that is protected by legislated confidentiality and/or is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are prohibited from disseminating, distributing or copying this e-mail. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail may not necessarily be that of the WorkCover Corporation of South Australia. Although precautions have been taken, the sender cannot warrant that this e-mail or any files transmitted with it are free of viruses or any other defect. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy the original e-mail and any copies. ************************************************************************

21 years, 2 months

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LaserWriter Plus

by liste＠artware.qc.ca

Looking around the local salvation army, I spotted a LaserWriter plus. I've searched the archives and discovered it's a PostScript enabled laser printer with RS-442 interface. It seems. No disucssion of the "plus" specifically. If it helps, there was a DB-25, a DE-9 and small (4? 6?) dip switch on the back (that I remember, I don't remember any mini-DIN). I'd be interested in having a "real" postscript printer. But I'd like to test it before buying. - Is there a way to print a test page w/o pluging into a computer? - Can this be interface to a straight PC? If the DB-25 is RS-232, I'd assume so. - Is toner readily available? Also, there was an ImageWriter II if anyone wants one. Thank you, -Philip

21 years, 2 months

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rx01 w/o controller board

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 5 2005, 19:21, Allison wrote: > The state machine is a simple but programable non-von cpu that can do > the needed tasks to execute complex command to seek, read or write > a sector. The RX02 is a 2901based bitslice that does more as it > has to do the needed tricks for DD format. Ah yes, I'd forgotten that. Thanks for reminding me where I'd seen another 2901! Welcome back, by the way :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 2 months

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LaserWriter Plus

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

Normally, all Postscript printers have a built-in self test, but I don't know how to work it on any of the apple products. I believe that it can be interfaced to a PC, but may be slow. Toner should be available, it was a Canon-engine printer, I think the "CX" engine, same as the original HP Laserjet. It MIGHT be an "SX" engine, which would be much better. In either case, you should be able to get toner, although it won't be "on the shelves" at a local retail store.

21 years, 2 months

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MFM/RLL data recovery

by n8uhn＠yahoo.com

Hmm, He states "i am useing a floppy cable with a twist in it and a 20 pin data cable." hard drives did not use a twisted cable on them. the used a 34 pin (data) and a 20 pin(control) streight thru cable(s. Bill __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

21 years, 2 months

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D.G. Nova update... disk drive again

by tomj＠wps.com

Well all seemed fine, I was working on Kermit, making good progress, then I/O PARITY ERROR AT xxxx -- disk read error. Diags etc, another shows up. Then another, but a previous goes away... Clearly there is a soft(ish) read error. Probably all those cheap ceramic disks on the read/write/amp board. So I will order nice, new, correct monolithic caps, and replace all the replacements. It's almost certainly in the analog read/write section, and not hard logic, said hypothesis boosted by the fact of my fiddling in that arena. I ran memory diags and all that stuff, but I am assuming it's the electronics I fiddled. I'll go do the job Right.

21 years, 2 months

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Scanned : Philips P350 doc

by birs23＠zeelandnet.nl

I just scanned a small manual by Philips Data Systems from 1972 called "SUMMARY OF P 350 BASIC AND PERIPHERAL ASSEMBLER INSTRUCTIONS WITH THEIR ABSOLUTE EQUIVALENTS" I dont expect any one to have this machine since this even seems to be only document around and the philips museum doesn't even have anything, but well in case some one does (tell me, tell me!!), you can find it on my site http://www.mansier.net under Vintage Document Library. Cheers, Stefan. ------------------------------------------------------- http://www.oldcomputercollection.com

21 years, 2 months

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cctalk Digest, Vol 20, Issue 17

by technobug＠comcast.net

> On Apr 5, 2005 9:59 PM, liste at artware.qc.ca <liste at artware.qc.ca> > wrote: >> Looking around the local salvation army, I spotted a LaserWriter plus. >> I've searched the archives and discovered it's a PostScript enabled >> laser >> printer with RS-442 interface. It seems. No disucssion of the "plus" >> specifically. > Manual is at <http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Manuals/printers/ LaserwriterLaserwriterPlus.PDF> Specifications at <http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=112476> >> If it helps, there was a DB-25, a DE-9 and small (4? 6?) >> dip switch on the back (that I remember, I don't remember any >> mini-DIN). > > Nope... no mini-DIN. The DE-9 is the AppleTalk interface (like 512K > Macs). The DB-25 is for ordinary serial devices so that, IIRC, one > can blow ASCII at it and the LW+ intereprets it as, I think, a Diablo > daisywheel printer, courier only, etc. I _think_ there's a way to > emit PostScript at the DB25, but it's not going to be a speedy > interface. The printer was primarily developed for Mac use on > AppleTalk/LocalTalk > See <http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=24471> for interface. >> I'd be interested in having a "real" postscript printer. But I'd >> like to >> test it before buying. > > One could take a Palm and a travel cable and DE9-DB252 adapter and run > a VT100 app and blow chars at the DB25 port... > >> - Is there a way to print a test page w/o pluging into a computer? > > Does it not print a test page at power-on? I think what my mom used > to do at work was power hers on with the paper tray removed to _not_ > get a test print (and waste the paper). > The test page is controlled by a PostScript variable which can be programmed through either port. Apple OSs prior to X had a LaserWriter Utility in which you could control the test page. However be warned, LaserWriters can be password protected... >> - Can this be interface to a straight PC? If the DB-25 is RS-232, I'd >> assume so. > > Yes, the DB25 is RS-232, but there may be a protocol issue there (raw > ASCII vs PS). You can run either PS or Diablo 630 emulation from a windoze box on the RS-232 port. '95 and later have PS drivers for the box. > >> - Is toner readily available? > > Yes, same toner as used in the HP LJ 1, 2, 3 as well as Apple > LaserWriter, Plus, SC, II, IInt (and all the other printers based on > the > Canon SX engine). Last time I bought one, they were going for around > $45 > for a 6000 page cart. The Plus uses a Canon CX engine. The toner is getting harder to find. My recommendation would be to skip this one. Although a true "Classic" the pickup rollers are probably goo by now and a true bitch to replace, let alone find. If you go this route, ensure you find another one for parts. In Apple land I would look for a LaserWriter II NT, NTX, or g. All are PS printers, use the SX engine for which need parts are still available and are supported on the Dark Side. The NT and NTX are supported over RS232 (slow) while the g is LAN capable. (Besides I have a superfulous redundancy of parts available to help out...) CRC

21 years, 2 months

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Cromemco 256KZ Bank Addressing ?

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

Hi Guys, I've got a Cromemco System-3 which I've been wrestling with on and off for quite a few months now ... I've got it to the point where it will boot and run CDOS, however Cromix hangs during boot. I've "boiled it down" to just the ZPU, 16FDC, and the RAM cards which are a pair of 256KZs, with the 948 and 949 addressing ROMs in them (sw.1 is ON for the 948 card and OFF for the 949 card as described in the documentation). I want to run a comprehensive memory test... I written such a test and can "load" it by having a PC "type" the HEX code into RDOS's SM command - then run it with 'G' - that all works fine, and I have verified that the default 32k that comes up with RDOS appears to be OK. Now I want to test all of the possible banks in the 256KZs and so far I can not find any documentation as to how the bank select works. From the 16KZ docs I see that the normal bank select register is 40h, and this does do "something" to the 256KZs ... I've determined that by writing individual bits 1, 2, 3 or 4 I can swap in four distinct 32k blocks into the upper half, while nibbles with other than one bit set all seem to map to the same block which is different from the other 4 ... This makes 5x32k = only 160k. I've also determined that writing individual bits 4, 5, 6 or 7 causes the system to die, which I'm guessing is because it is swapping the lower 32k (where my program is running)... It it works the same as the lower-nibble/upper-block, then that would give a total of 10x32k = 320k that I can access from the 512k physical memory on the cards ... ? Can anyone provide me with details of exactly how the bank select works with dual 256KZ cards installed, and how to map in the entire 512k (obviously a section at a time)? Unfortunately I don't have the 947 address ROM which would have shipped with single cards, so I can't test the cards by thenselves... Anybody got a spare? Also, I note that RDOS will not come up if the ZPU is set for 2MHZ ... It appears to only run at 4MHZ - is this normal? Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 2 months

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LaserWriter Plus

by Gary.Messick＠ngc.com

> > On laserjets you can hold down the online button while powering up the > > printer. Hold until it starts to print and it provides a status page > > and a graphics test page. Give it a try. > > There are no buttons on an Apple LaserWriter (Plus). Buttons > are an HP LaserJet thing. On the Canon CX Engine, wasn't there a button on the side panel that would print a set of parallel lines independent of the controller?

21 years, 2 months

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LaserWriter Plus

by cb＠mythtech.net

>- Is there a way to print a test page w/o pluging into a computer? Provided the dip switches have not been changed, then just power it up, it will print a status page that tells what language it is set to use, what port, and the page count. (IIRC, one of the dip switches can disable this test page at power on) >- Can this be interface to a straight PC? If the DB-25 is RS-232, I'd >assume so. Yes over the DB25, but it tops out at 9600 bps, so it is SLOW to print. >- Is toner readily available? Yes, same toner as used in the HP LJ 1, 2, 3 as well as Apple LaserWriter, Plus, SC, II, IInt (and all the other printers based on the Canon SX engine). Last time I bought one, they were going for around $45 for a 6000 page cart. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

21 years, 2 months

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rx01 w/o controller board

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: rx01 w/o controller board > From: Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > >On Apr 5, 2005 11:52 PM, Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> wrote: >> I plan to put a T-11 in a smallbox with a 640x480 mono lcd >> and keyboard and run RT11 on batteries with it. I be tired >> of washin winders. > >Nice... I noticed your LCD questions elsewhere... I have similar >dreams, but with an SBC6120 at the middle of everything. > >-ethan Hi there! Actually the diplay system is the first priority as the likely cpu could be T-11, Z80, Z280, 1802 or even 6120. One possible display solution I tripped across is there are car TVs or at least the LCD video monitors that could accept componenet or RS170 video. From what I've seen these are getting down there in cost for the 6-8" sizes. Back to the days of VDM1, and TVT6 type display systems in a whole new way and possibly cheap too. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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AppleTalk & CAP

by dholland＠woh.rr.com

I thought I'd throw a note out here before I give up for the evening.... (And hope there's an appropriate answer waiting for me in the morning. :-) ) Has anyone done anything w/ CAP and Apple IIgs's lately, and have any good guesses why files created on the Unix "share" (from the GS of course) appear to loose their filetypes? The .finderinfo, and .resource directories are there, and clean, but CAP appears to be storing the wrong data in .finderinfo. Does this happen to ring any bells w/ anyone? Yes, I know CAP is moldy, old, and from what I can tell unsupported. I had to port the raw network layer to a modern version of Linux. But it appears to be working but for the above problem. Why CAP? Cause I can't get my Fastpath4 bridge to talk anything but AppleTalk Phase 1, and Linux/NetAtalk only do Phase 2. (Apparently the FP4 doesn't calculate checksums correctly either, btw) <grumble> (And no, I don't want to bring up a Solaris box. <spithewie>) Thanks, David PS: At least the IIgs is on-topic. :-)

21 years, 2 months

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PDP-8 QBOL or DIBOL

by Bob.Adamson＠sli-institute.ac.uk

Does anyone have PDP-8 DIBOL software? Also QBOL or DIBOL documentation? Bob Adamson

21 years, 2 months

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rx01 w/o controller board

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.u-net.com> wrote (to Allison): > Welcome back, by the way :-) I second that! Allison, you might remember me... :-) It's been 7 years... Welcome back, it's a lot of joy to see you online again! :-) Michael Sokolov http://ivan.Harhan.ORG/~msokolov/

21 years, 2 months

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rx01 w/o controller board

by brad＠heeltoe.com

hi, Silly me, I bid on an RX01 on ebay, hoping it had a controller card. Naturally it's just the drive. It has a nice Digital sticker on the side and seems dirty but mechanically sound and the head looks ok. So, where can I get a controller card for this thing? any ideas? are these things like hen's teeth? Naturally I have an unibus rx01 controller card, so all I need is a controller card for this drive, right? (and a cable, and power supplies :-) I just have this unbending need to boot rt-11 from it. I know it's silly but I need to do it. And, it seemed like it might be fun to boot other things too. Plus, with the Shugart drives I have I thought I might actually be able to transfer small files. -brad

21 years, 2 months

5
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rx01 w/o controller board

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

>Subject: Re: rx01 w/o controller board > From: Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.u-net.com> Another place where there is a sea of 2901s is the FPU for the 11/23b. I have one of those too. >Welcome back, by the way :-) Glad to be back. Spent 5 years working for a firm that makes P-RTDs as their sole IS/Net/Server/DB/engineer person and was plain too busy for life until.. they sold it. Now I have way too much time till I get mixed up in something else hairbrained. Still have VAXen, PDP-11s, PDP-8s, and a raft of S100 hardware. I plan to put a T-11 in a smallbox with a 640x480 mono lcd and keyboard and run RT11 on batteries with it. I be tired of washin winders. Allison KB1GMX VHF/UHF and out there.

21 years, 2 months

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LaserWriter Plus

by James＠jdfogg.com

> - Is there a way to print a test page w/o pluging into a computer? On laserjets you can hold down the online button while powering up the printer. Hold until it starts to print and it provides a status page and a graphics test page. Give it a try.

21 years, 2 months

2
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New book

by leeedavison＠yahoo.co.uk

> http://www.vintage.org/library.php > This is a new "library" feature I'm adding to the VCF website. It > includes books, videos, and books on cassette, all on computer history > subjects. 99.9% link to the Amazon page where you can place an order > for convenience. > Suggestions always welcome. How about listing the ISBN with the book titles, it would make requesting the book at the library a little easier. Lee. . Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

21 years, 2 months

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Need "Cambasic" manual for Octagon Systems SBC

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

Does anyone have a manual for Cambasic or manuals for any of the Octagon Systems boards? Joe

21 years, 2 months

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Kevin Stumpf?

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Does anyone know of a way I could contact Kevin Stumpf? If so, please email me off-list Thanks! Jay West

21 years, 2 months

1
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HP9133 user guide...?

by jos.mar＠bluewin.ch

Anyone has a pointer to a userguide for the above HPIB drive ? Bitsavers came out empty. I got a non-functional unit and now need the know how to change the internal HD ( a 15 MB ST419 unit ) and format it. I hope the 9133 is intelligent enough to format the disk itself Target usage : the much needed HD for my HP IPC ! Jos Dreesen

21 years, 2 months

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Funny ebay auction

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 6 2005, 0:08, Dan Williams wrote: > It made me laugh and it's on topic. > > item=5181057334 Looks like I'm sitting on a potential fortune, then :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 2 months

1
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rx01 w/o controller board

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

>Subject: Re: rx01 w/o controller board > From: Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.u-net.com> >Your host adapter is little more than a parallel interface; it talks >over a 40-way ribbon cable (but less than half the pins are used) to >one of the boards on the RX02 unit which has a state machine to execute >various commands, and that board in turn connects via another ribbon >cable to the lower board, which has the amplifiers and so forth on it. > The head cables plug into this lower board. The state machine is a simple but programable non-von cpu that can do the needed tasks to execute complex command to seek, read or write a sector. The RX02 is a 2901based bitslice that does more as it has to do the needed tricks for DD format. An aside for CPU hackers, the core cpu of the RX01 processor is remarably simple and can execute 5 distinct microinstructions with a few variations. A varient of the same logical core was used to build the LA34 printer and LA120 and a similar design is in the LP26 DAFU. It was a fun project years ago building one and tweeking it to do a simple 8bit cpu. >AFAIK the drive mechanisms for an RX01 and RX02 are the same; only the >boards differ. Correct. The drive and power suppies are interchangable, The two boards are different for the 01/02 though mechanically interchangable. Allison

21 years, 2 months

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MFM/RLL data recovery

by marvin＠rain.org

Well, I read through the digest replies and don't agree with all of them ... so :): Re: the floppy cable. The twist on a HD cable is closer to the edge than the floppy cable. It is obvious if you hold the two of them together which is which. The floppy twist starts at pin 10 while the HD twist starts about pin 6 or so (don't have one in front of me.) A floppy cable will work okay but *don't* use the end with the twist! Make sure the data cable is connected to the correct connector if the card supports two drives (IIRC one 40 pin connector and two 20 pin connectors.) A terminator is also required at the last drive in the chain. Assuming you are using just one drive, not having the terminator installed would probably cause the drive not to work properly. If you are using a HD that originally had a twist, the jumper select will most likely be set to drive 1. Using a straight cable will cause the drive to appear as drive D instead of C ... I don't remember what problems that will cause. So if using a straight cable, make sure the drive select is at 0 (of 0-3) or 1 (of 1-4). If you are using an 8-bit card with the bios enabled, make sure in the 386 setup that there is NO HD installed (the bios will take care of it.) If you have the bios disabled, then go ahead and set the 386 HD setup to Type 2 or 4? (can't remember, 615 cyl, 4 heads, 17 sectors) but you *will* have to do a low level format to get the drive to work. If you are trying to save files on the HD AND it was installed with an 8-bit controller, you don't have any choices but to use the 8-bit card bios to access the data AND an identical controller to the one that was used to low level format the drive. Fred can probably comment on whether it has to be the same type of controller, or the same controller for this to work. If you have any idea of what the original machine it came out of was, that would help :). Finally, the clicking you hear on the drive is not a good sign. I would power up the drive with no cables connected (except of course the power cable) and if the clicking still continues, the drive is probably bad. If it is important enough, you could also send the drive to a data recovery service and leave it to them to deal with it. Marvin P.S. - I think this is an example where top posting makes everything a lot easier to follow :)! > OK, I posted about this a few weeks ago and now I have some more > information. > > The drives in question are a ST-225 20MB (615/4/17) that came out of an > XT (so would have been using a 8-bit controller) and a ST-238R 30MB > (615/4/26) of unknown origin. > > I don't have or even know what the original controllers were, the > machines were gutted/given away years ago by the owners. > > I have a 386 testbed which I'm using, and plan to laplink the files over > to another machine once they are accessible. > > The only card in the 386 is a VGA card. Turbo is off. > > I have the following controllers: > - WD1002A-27X 8-bit RLL > - Adaptec ACB-2370A S2 16-bit RLL/floppy > - WD1002SV-SR2 16-bit RLL/floppy > - Everex EV-346 16-bit MFM/floppy > > I also have two Miniscribe 8438 30MB RLL drives. However, they were > used with the 27X, which means the geometry is ambiguous depending on > how the jumpers were set when it was formatted. > > Now, I'm either doing something wrong or all these drives are dead. > > I am using a floppy cable with a twist in it and a 20-pin data cable. > All of the drives spin up (the Miniscribes needed a little coaxing) and > sound "healthy" as they dance their little self-test jigs. Here's where > the trouble starts. > > I tried the ST-238R with all three of the RLL controllers. With the 27X > and with no hard drive entered in the NVRAM setup, since the BIOS can't > be disabled, it runs the BIOS, which can't figure out what's going on > and returns a 1701 POST code. > > With both of the 16-bit RLL controllers, 615/4/26 entered in the NVRAM > and the controller BIOS disabled, the drive makes a repetitive seeking > sound like an ECC retry about twice a second, until eventually the BIOS > gives up and returns Drive C: failure. What this seems to indicate to > me is that the drive was formatted with different geometry, or the > tracks have drifted so bad it can't get its bearings. > > I also tried the Miniscribe drives with the 27X for kicks. Everything > sounds normal, including the long growl that I remember that > drive/controller combo doing during POST. But, a 1701 is returned, > which isn't normal - this drive *used* to work with this exact > controller. > > The only MFM controller I have is the Everex, so I tried the ST-225 with > that one, entering 615/4/17 in the NVRAM and disabling its BIOS. > Unfortunately, I get mostly the same behavior as with the ST-238R; > except that with this drive, the retry clicks are about a second or two > apart. Eventually the BIOS gives up anyway. > > I'm fresh out of ideas at this point. Maybe I have a bad cable? Do I > need to find the exact controller the drives were paired with - what > were the most common ones for each drive? Is the 386 the problem, too > fast for these cards? > > -- > Ryan Underwood, <nemesis at icequake.net> >

21 years, 2 months

5
4
0 0

Paging Simon Webb (Museum of Computing)

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Anyone have a contact email address for him? I've gone and lost his address (d'oh!) cheers Jules

21 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

The SC/MP is finally alive!

by bkotaska＠charter.net

river wrote on Tue, 5 Apr 2005 >Does anyone else here build old stuff like this? Or do you build your own debug >and monitor software? Any experimenters/builders here? My answer is yes to all the above. I have many old processors and plan to put them all to use someday. I've done something similar to your SC/MP project with an Intel 4004. ( http://webpages.charter.net/bkotaska/mcs4_micro.htm ) Latest project is a redesign of the HP Programmable ROM Module for the HP-85 ( http://webpages.charter.net/bkotaska/prm85.htm ). Anything to make old computers (and chips) more useful! Bill

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

HP 82954A

by leeedavison＠yahoo.co.uk

Found another roll of 4.25" x 400' Black thermal paper and some DC100A tapes including an HP-85 Standard pac, 00085-13001. Will bundle with the other rolls. Collect or postage from the UK. Lee. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

rx01 w/o controller board

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

>Subject: Re: rx01 w/o controller board > From: Brad Parker <brad at heeltoe.com> > > >Allison wrote: >> >>Brad did you buy a bare drive? > >yes, apparently I did :-) > >>If so you need the cab, power supply and both logic cards. > >So, it seems I need the 2 logic cards. All that for a floppy :-) > >thanks! Well err, yes! DEC did things a bit different as the RX01 dates to before the era of FDC chips. So what they did was encapsulate both the drive electronics and a full floppy data interface into the system. By doing that they also simplified stuff by way of consolidation that was both expensive at the time and power hungry. What that amounts to is the RX01 box is two dives and the interface and all that's needed in the system is a fancy {but cheap to design and build} parallel port to interface it to the bus. Very handy as the RX01 could be used with PDP-8, PDP11 both Unibus and Q-bus. As a result a nominal Sa800 drive is not even a close analoge to the complete RX01. So having the bare drive is like buying a car, well ok, the frame and transmission for one. Generally RX01 and RX02 drives sans the bus interface card are not hard to find. Don't ship it though, they weigh in around 50+ pounds! Whats a good replacement is DSD880s, those are RX01/02 work alike boxes that are a contoller, floppy and some models include a hard disk from 10 to 30mb in one case 6" high. Even then you need both the complete box and the bus interface card to match. Allison

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

MFM/RLL data recovery

by nemesis-lists＠icequake.net

OK, I posted about this a few weeks ago and now I have some more information. The drives in question are a ST-225 20MB (615/4/17) that came out of an XT (so would have been using a 8-bit controller) and a ST-238R 30MB (615/4/26) of unknown origin. I don't have or even know what the original controllers were, the machines were gutted/given away years ago by the owners. I have a 386 testbed which I'm using, and plan to laplink the files over to another machine once they are accessible. The only card in the 386 is a VGA card. Turbo is off. I have the following controllers: - WD1002A-27X 8-bit RLL - Adaptec ACB-2370A S2 16-bit RLL/floppy - WD1002SV-SR2 16-bit RLL/floppy - Everex EV-346 16-bit MFM/floppy I also have two Miniscribe 8438 30MB RLL drives. However, they were used with the 27X, which means the geometry is ambiguous depending on how the jumpers were set when it was formatted. Now, I'm either doing something wrong or all these drives are dead. I am using a floppy cable with a twist in it and a 20-pin data cable. All of the drives spin up (the Miniscribes needed a little coaxing) and sound "healthy" as they dance their little self-test jigs. Here's where the trouble starts. I tried the ST-238R with all three of the RLL controllers. With the 27X and with no hard drive entered in the NVRAM setup, since the BIOS can't be disabled, it runs the BIOS, which can't figure out what's going on and returns a 1701 POST code. With both of the 16-bit RLL controllers, 615/4/26 entered in the NVRAM and the controller BIOS disabled, the drive makes a repetitive seeking sound like an ECC retry about twice a second, until eventually the BIOS gives up and returns Drive C: failure. What this seems to indicate to me is that the drive was formatted with different geometry, or the tracks have drifted so bad it can't get its bearings. I also tried the Miniscribe drives with the 27X for kicks. Everything sounds normal, including the long growl that I remember that drive/controller combo doing during POST. But, a 1701 is returned, which isn't normal - this drive *used* to work with this exact controller. The only MFM controller I have is the Everex, so I tried the ST-225 with that one, entering 615/4/17 in the NVRAM and disabling its BIOS. Unfortunately, I get mostly the same behavior as with the ST-238R; except that with this drive, the retry clicks are about a second or two apart. Eventually the BIOS gives up anyway. I'm fresh out of ideas at this point. Maybe I have a bad cable? Do I need to find the exact controller the drives were paired with - what were the most common ones for each drive? Is the 386 the problem, too fast for these cards? -- Ryan Underwood, <nemesis at icequake.net>

21 years, 2 months

18
27
0 0

The SC/MP is finally alive!

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: The SC/MP is finally alive! > From: "river" <river at zip.com.au> > Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 07:44:02 +1000 > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Hi, > >Yes, for it's time (1976) the SC/MP had the logic that allowed it to share >the bus with other processors etc. The 8080 chip could also do this, but >this device required 3 separate power supplies and you needed three chips >to get the CPU working properly. The 6800 also offered similar multiprocessing >abilities and, like the SC/MP was a single chip system, but I'm not sure if it >came out before or after the SC/MP. Commnet: The biggest differnce between the SC/MP bus intnerface was that the sc/mp didn't assume it was the bust master. So the bus interface pins did a priority resolution with other potential bus masters. All of the other cpus (8080, 8085, z80, 6502, 6800 etal) assumed they were the bus master and you took the bus only after being granted DMA access. While the difference is a small one it's notable in that all of it's peers of the time were different. >The SC/MP I (ISPA/500) was a PMOS device and required +5 and -7 volt power >rails. The SC/MP II (ISPA/600) was NMOS and required only +5 rail (same as the >6800), it also had three of it's CPU control lines inverted (as compared to the >SC/MP I) and though it could take 4 times the speed of the clock of the SC/MP I, >due to internal clocking it ran only twice as fast. > >What made the SC/MP popular back in those days was the cost. It was about a >quarter of the cost of the 8080 and 6800 processors. The cost factor was insignificant by 1978. The CPU was only part of a systems cost. >Finally, it's good to see some other old SC/MP dudes around and also others who like >to build and program their systems from scratch. I started a SC/MP cpu in TTL and Bit slice (2901) and then abandoned it for a design that expanded it in some obvious ways. the sc/mp was in the same class for cpu hackers as the 1802, 6100 (PDP8 in cmos), and a few others. A significant part of my collection and expeimentation is with SBC (Single or Small Board Computers). I have SBCs for 1802, SC/MP 8a/500, Nibble basic 8073 sc/mp, 6800, 6809, 6502 Kim-1, 6100 Intersil sampler, IMSAI IMP-48 an 8035 SBC, Ti9900 Technico Superstarter board, NEC TK80 (8080), several 8085, Z80, Z280 and Z8001 sbc of my design, and T-11 (a 40 pin dip pdp-11) homebrew. The only one I haven't played with is the 2650, 16032, 68000... yet. Allison

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Collect all Macs? was Re: Mac OS 9.1 now a free download

by cb＠mythtech.net

>I gave Chris maybe 8 ~ 12 unique models IIRC. Sometime later he had >a crash of storage space... I have almost no idea how many he kept. I actually found users for most of them. Many of them were repeats of the IIci, and LC 1, 2, 3 series. A number didn't work, and were combined into functioning machines. All the 68040 machines (mostly Performa 63x) that I didn't keep were given to new homes, as well as most of the LC models. The IIci's were surprisingly hard to place and in the end most were stripped for parts and traded off in pieces. I did keep a few that were the "rarer" models (like the IIvx and MacTV, as well as one each of the LC versions, IIci, and IIsi... I also kept some of the 68040's, in fact, I currently run my mail and web servers off them, the mail servers are running the Mac OS, and the web servers are Mac68k NetBSD). I'm no where near having one of every model however. At one point I wanted to make such a collection, but alas, it will be some time before I have that kind of storage space available to me again. >Somebody just gave me my first G3. Very good looking machine. >Even has that prominent DEC chip (21154 PCI) to look at. Can't wait >to load something on it. Which model? I can check to see if I have the Apple restore CD for it. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

21 years, 2 months

9
9
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MFM/RLL

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 5 2005, 16:19, Phil Spanner wrote: > Thought I wouold drop a note regarding the drives. Not only does BIOS need to be configured (usually by type) but my drives seem to need 2 cables??? > One floppy drive cable should not enable the controller to talk to the drives at all. Well, up to a point. The 34-way cable carries the control signals, such as the drive selects, head selects, step, write-enable, etc, and status signals such as ready, track zero, etc. The 20-way cable carries only the differential read and write data signals. Without that, of course, the controller will never see data from the drive. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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rx01 w/o controller board

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 5 2005, 17:10, Brad Parker wrote: > > I bought an RX01 8" drive and it has no drive electronics card on it. > > I have an RX11 M7846 controller (host adapter). > > I assume to make this work I need an electronics card on the RX01 drive > itself. The drive has what looks like mounting holes for a PCB and I > the RX11 is way too simple so I assume there is something which bolts > onto the RX01 drive. And a ribbon cable between them. And a power > supply :-) Yes, but perhaps not quite in the form you might expect. As Henk mentioned earlier, there are two boards in an RX01 or RX02, and they're both quite big -- they sit one above the other and each spans across two drives. Not at all like SA800-style drives, which normally have one PCB on the top of each drive. The power supply is mounted behind the drives on a substantial chassis, to part of which the two PCBs are also mounted (the upper one is hinged at the left hand side to provide access to the lower one). Your host adapter is little more than a parallel interface; it talks over a 40-way ribbon cable (but less than half the pins are used) to one of the boards on the RX02 unit which has a state machine to execute various commands, and that board in turn connects via another ribbon cable to the lower board, which has the amplifiers and so forth on it. The head cables plug into this lower board. AFAIK the drive mechanisms for an RX01 and RX02 are the same; only the boards differ. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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MFM/RLL data recovery

by nemesis-lists＠icequake.net

On Tue, Apr 05, 2005 at 03:57:24PM -0500, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > Wait -- the Miniscribes are MFM, yes? You should be testing them with the WD > controller, not the RLL controller. No, they are RLL. 8438 are RLL variant of the 8425. They ran for years with the 27X controller in my family's XT :) > Also, since you're testing on a 386, go into the 386's BIOS and make sure that > the 386 isn't trying to map something into the ROM address space that the > controllers are trying to use (ie see if it's possible to relocate the 386's > onboard IDE controller BIOS location, if it has one -- my Dell 316sx works like > this, for example... can also relocate video ROM location too). This is a 386 clone board without any onboard peripherals. > If you exhaust all options, send me the MFM drive -- I have a 100% working > WD1002 system set up right now with an ST-225 and could take a look at it for you. I'll keep that in mind, thanks! > Isn't that only a requirement of SCSI drives? I certainly don't have any > terminators on my MFM/RLL drives... These are terminating resistor packs which are located on the drive PCB, not a terminator in the SCSI sense where it's plugged into the end of the chain. Also, I believe SCSI terminators are composed of transistors, not resistors. -- Ryan Underwood, <nemesis at icequake.net>

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

rx01 w/o controller board

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

>Subject: Re: rx01 w/o controller board > From: Brad Parker <brad at heeltoe.com> > >"Eric Smith" wrote: >>Brad wrote: >>I bid on an RX01 on ebay, hoping it had a controller card. Naturally it's >>> just the drive. [...] where can I get a controller card [...] Naturally >>> I have an unibus rx01 controller card, so all I need is a controller card >>> for this drive, right? >> >>I'm completely confused. You have a controller card? Or you don't? If > >Sorry. To much coffee and emulators today :-) > >I bought an RX01 8" drive and it has no drive electronics card on it. > >I have an RX11 M7846 controller (host adapter). > >I assume to make this work I need an electronics card on the RX01 drive >itself. The drive has what looks like mounting holes for a PCB and I >the RX11 is way too simple so I assume there is something which bolts >onto the RX01 drive. And a ribbon cable between them. And a power >supply :-) > >-brad Brad did you buy a bare drive? If so you need the cab, power supply and both logic cards. Yes in the RX01 dual drive there is a pair of cards that are drive interface and processor. the RX11 is just an interface to the processor. Allison

21 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

rx01 w/o controller board

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

>Subject: Re: rx01 w/o controller board > From: "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> > Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 16:17:48 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Brad wrote.... >> I assume to make this work I need an electronics card on the RX01 drive >> itself. The drive has what looks like mounting holes for a PCB and I >> the RX11 is way too simple so I assume there is something which bolts >> onto the RX01 drive. And a ribbon cable between them. And a power >> supply :-) > >I have a problematic RX02 "internal" controller card, I was in a hurry to >get the drive operational and just bought a new card for it. You're welcome >to the old one (which obviously needs some repair), if it will help in your >quest. RX02 does not work with RX11, also the bords for rx02 and rx01 are "sets" that I've found are not cross interchangeable. If you building up an RX01 you need both drive internal boards and RX11 to be of the RX01 part group. I know this as my RX02 started life as an RX01. Then I changed the drive boards and use a RXV21 with it. Which RX01 card do you need the Drive interface or the "processor" board? Allison

21 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

rx01 w/o controller board

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: rx01 w/o controller board > From: "Eric Smith" <eric at brouhaha.com> > Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 11:50:38 -0700 (PDT) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Brad wrote: >I bid on an RX01 on ebay, hoping it had a controller card. Naturally it's >> just the drive. [...] where can I get a controller card [...] Naturally >> I have an unibus rx01 controller card, so all I need is a controller card >> for this drive, right? > >I'm completely confused. You have a controller card? Or you don't? If >you have one, surely you don't need one? Or are you saying that you need >one for a different bus? Or is your drive missing the drive electronics, >which is the real controller (vs. the Mxxxx "controllers", which are >really just host adapters)? > >The "controllers" (host adapters) are: > > Unibus Qbus Omnibus > ----------- ----------- ---------- >RX01 RX11 M7846 RXV11 M7946 RX8E M8357 >RX02 RX211 M8256 RXV21 M8029 RX28 M8357 Eric, Sound to me like he got a bare drive and no 54-xxxxx boards and PS to make a complete rx01. Iv'e found the base mechanics are common as people part out rx01/02s for the boards or PS. Brad, If you listening the real RX01 is heavy, two drives in a rack width cab nearly 11" high, contining a powersupply and two long cards that supply drive interface (for both drives) and processor (nearly a complete FDC in itself). Allison

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

The SC/MP is finally alive!

by river＠zip.com.au

Hi, Yes, for it's time (1976) the SC/MP had the logic that allowed it to share the bus with other processors etc. The 8080 chip could also do this, but this device required 3 separate power supplies and you needed three chips to get the CPU working properly. The 6800 also offered similar multiprocessing abilities and, like the SC/MP was a single chip system, but I'm not sure if it came out before or after the SC/MP. The SC/MP I (ISPA/500) was a PMOS device and required +5 and -7 volt power rails. The SC/MP II (ISPA/600) was NMOS and required only +5 rail (same as the 6800), it also had three of it's CPU control lines inverted (as compared to the SC/MP I) and though it could take 4 times the speed of the clock of the SC/MP I, due to internal clocking it ran only twice as fast. What made the SC/MP popular back in those days was the cost. It was about a quarter of the cost of the 8080 and 6800 processors. The SC/MP, like some other early processors, such as the 2650, had it's memory divided into pages, and the Program Counter couldn't access the entire memory unless some specific registers or jump/load instructions were used. The simplicity of the SC/MP instruction set (only 46 instructions) is it's strength, yet also a part of its weakness (ie, page memory, no dedicated stack, no compare instructions, no rotate/shift left, cumbersome interrupt, etc). Half the fun is getting the hardware all going, and the rest of the fun is to lock horns with it's instruction set and do some fancy programming. I'll take a few pics of the system (including my homebuilt 8085 system) and let you know when they are on the web. Finally, it's good to see some other old SC/MP dudes around and also others who like to build and program their systems from scratch. river

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

PDP 11/45 Display register.

by GOOI＠oce.nl

Well, let's try to give an answer. The SWitch Register is what is says: *switch* register. So you can read the switches from it, but writing to it is no use. Don't shoot me if I am mistaken! From memory, the address is 777570. - Henk, PA8PDP. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org To: Classic computer list Sent: 5-4-2005 21:33 Subject: PDP 11/45 Display register. Hi, A quick question raised by my ongoing work.... Is it possible to write directly to the "display register" - the one accessed by one position of the data switch. I think it should be at memory location 777570, but I can't get data into it, either using deposit from the console, or moving data under program control. Have I got a fault, or am I doing something wrong? Thanks Jim. Please see our website the " Vintage Communication Pages" at WWW.G1JBG.CO.UK

21 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

MFM/RLL

by pspan＠amerytel.net

Hi, Thought I wouold drop a note regarding the drives. Not only does BIOS need to be configured (usually by type) but my drives seem to need 2 cables??? One floppy drive cable should not enable the controller to talk to the drives at all. Phil

21 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Digital VAX Rdb/VMS books

by birs23＠zeelandnet.nl

Anybody here interested in a bunch of Digital VAX Rdb/VMS books ? Quite a few are still sealed. I prefer to sell them because I need the space and could use any extra money but I am willing to swap them for something else or perhaps even give them to someone for just the postage. Cheers, Stefan. ------------------------------------------------------- http://www.oldcomputercollection.com

21 years, 2 months

1
0
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