- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

How many ICs does it take to put a man on the moon

by hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca

Here's a funny story. Margaret Atwood, famous Canadian woman of letters (writer, novelist, "The Handmaid's Tale", "Oryx & Crake", etc.) was heard in an interview on a high-school radio program to be questioning the Apollo moon landings. It's not quite clear whether she believes it was a hoax, whether she was hoaxing the hoax, just encouraging kids to question things, or later backpedalled to avoid embarrassment. One version: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/09/23/margaret-atwoods-just- wondering-about-that-silly-moon-landing-hoax/ What makes this topical to the list though, is one of reasons she gave to question the landings: The question about the moon landing is why haven?t we been back. And it was done in an age where computers were as big as a couple of rooms. If you even look at the Space Odyssey 2001 HAL the computer, and I think that movie came out in the late 60s, HAL the computer is huge. We didn?t yet have microchips. So I just wonder, how did they do that? Why they haven?t done it again if it was so easy? Later, after backpedalling a bit, she still says: But the questions about the computer technology needed to do something this complex remain with us? what were they using, in those days before microchips? How heavy was it? Apparently it only takes 40 years, not 2000 (Antikythera), to start questioning whether our 'forebears' were able to do things without the tools we have today. And she was publishing in the 60s, it's not like it was all before her time.

15 years, 5 months

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CHM's "Revolution" opens this morning

by aek＠bitsavers.org

One of the things I've been working on for the past five years. http://venturebeat.com/2011/01/13/that-old-computer-in-your-garage-is-histo…

15 years, 5 months

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Would a bog-standard 4164 be a suitable replacement for a MCM4517 in a Sega SC3000H? (was Re: Introduction - Terry Stewart (tezza))

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 10/19/10, Mike van Bokhoven <mike at fenz.net> wrote: > Hi Terry, > > Welcome to the list, from another NZ classic-cmper. Whereabouts in NZ are > you located? Hi, Terry, I'm curious, too. I've spent about six months of the past 15 years in NZ, mostly in Christchurch, with trips to Wellington, Auckland, and Hamilton. > I also enjoy getting dead machines going; my current challenge is finding > RAM for a Sega SC3000H. I was hoping someone might have some spare MCM4517s > for sale (from memory, hopefully that number's right), Those are just +5V-only 16Kx1 DRAMs, right? The pinout is the same as the 4164 except for pin 9 (NC on a MCM4517, A7 on a 4164). Could you use a 4164 instead? (it might require a pull-up or pull-down on pin 9 so it doesn't float). Those are rather abundant and still available from a number of sources. -ethan

15 years, 5 months

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Computers & Chess

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

A local museum wants me to see if an exhibit can be put together pertaining to Computers in Chess. We wouldn't be looking for just "a row of microcomputers playing chess", we'd be looking for items of historical significance, firsts, etc. That being said, we need items of interest to novices as well as experts. The duration of the exhibit would be somewhere between 3 and 6 months, definitely not a permanent exhibit. The museum would of course pay for professional shipping of items and insurance. The floor space available for the exhibit could be up to 4000 sq/ft if need be. Anyone have parts of Deep Blue? ;) Would any listmembers have items of significance/interest to Computers in Chess, and be willing to loan them to the museum for this exhibit? If so, please email me off-list and if we can use it, I'll send you a copy of the museum's facility report (which details security, environmental controls, professional handling, etc.). I'd also appreciate any ideas/pointers for exhibits or places to check for items of interest. Thanks in advance! Jay

15 years, 5 months

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Kindle and bitsavers?

by wbblair3＠yahoo.com

All of my relatives have gone with Nooks rather than Kindles for themselves and their children, primary reasons being that the Nook supports the ePub open ebook format and Barnes and Noble ebooks are cheaper than Amazon's. Less important is the capacitive touchscreen. Early firmware for the Nook had issues, new versions are fine. This is what they tell me anyway since I don't own one myself nor have I paid much attention to ebooks.

15 years, 5 months

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Kindle and bitsavers?

by wbblair3＠yahoo.com

Did a little research myself and it appears that the Nook has a micro-SD slot whereas the latest Kindles no longer have SD slots.

15 years, 5 months

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Kindle and bitsavers

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> how much of the archive would fit onto one of these devices? Bitsavers is well over 120 Gbytes last time I checked, most of it PDF's. Depending on generation of Kindle you get 1.4 to 3.3 Gbytes of user storage. Last time I made a DVD-R set of bitsavers content it filled circa 28 DVD's. > how much of an advantage would one of these devices hold over a laptop? The Kindle screen is smaller than most laptops but the portrait orientation is a better match to typical printed text than a laptop's landscape orientation so the screen real estate is way better utilized. Kindle displays by do not include ornamentation and all that other crap around the edge of the window and that's a true win for screen real estate usage too. I can't believe it's 2011 and most typical laptop and desktop display usage is devoted to crap like borders and icons and buttons. Toolbars are the crappiest idea in the world. When I see someone who has installed so many toolbars in their browser that half of the screen is taken up with them I just want to scream. Pixels per inch on the kindle is on the high end of current consumer displays but the same is true for many laptop displays too. Power consumption is way lower on the kindle. ("digital paper" vs LCD technology) Tim.

15 years, 5 months

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No subject

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> how much of the archive would fit onto one of these devices? Bitsavers is well over 120 Gbytes last time I checked, most of it PDF's. Depending on generation of Kindle you get 1.4 to 4 Gbytes of user storage. Last time I made a DVD-R set of bitsavers content it filled circa 28 DVD's. Tim.

15 years, 5 months

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Favor to ask ....

by evan＠snarc.net

If anyone in the Silicon Valley area is going to Jane Smiley's lecture @ CHM tonight, and if you * AGREE * with my recent posts about ABC vs. ENIAC, then please e-mail me privately. I have a favor to ask. Thanks.

15 years, 5 months

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ENIAC ....

by jonas＠otter.se

Definition of "computer" from the Oxford Dictionaries Online: an electronic device which is capable of receiving information (data) in a particular form and of performing a sequence of operations in accordance with a predetermined but variable set of procedural instructions (program) to produce a result in the form of information or signals. a person who makes calculations, especially with a calculating machine. I suppose that would make ENIAC a computer, since the program is variable, even if only by moving lots of wires. /Jonas

15 years, 5 months

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Passing of Bill Mayberry, Terak co-founder

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Today I learned that William Mayberry, one of the cofounders of Terak, passed away in August 2010. He started as an EE at University of Illinois where he worked on the ILLIAC. He worked at Sperry Flight Systems. He designed the Space Shuttle MDM system, then went to Boeing and worked on the electronics of the 747, then the flight control and weapon systems of the Apache helicopter. In 1975, he cofounded Terak Computer and became its CEO. He'd always kept me in mind to help preserve his Terak history, and I'm glad to say his family is helping with that. I'm working with his widow to help preserve the materials she has. One of his nephews has an interest in preserving the Terak. Contact me if you could assist with physical rescue in the Phoenix area. - John

15 years, 5 months

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Need RL02 Controller for PDP-11/44 Restoration

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> I read through the blog - if the motors start spinning as you describe > (I envision you mean for a few seconds; please correct me if this is > wrong) _then_ the drive stops spinning, I doubt it's the capacitors. > If the motors _don't_ start moving when you put the drive online, then > that is one component to examine. The motors start to spin up, accelerate for a few seconds and then stop. A few years ago I fixed and RA81 that had the same symptoms by replacing the starting capacitor. > RA81s were at one point, exceedingly susceptible to HDA failure. ?I > don't recall the specific ECO levels, but some version after "E" used > a different glue than its predecessors leading to particulate > contamination leading to catastrophic failure. ?ISTR looking for "H2" > or "K2" drives after that disaster. Two RA81s have tan colored HDAs, one has a black HDA. I think that the black HDAs are the new design that doesn't crash so often. > RA81 drives have a DB25 inside. ?You can plug a terminal in and run > on-board diagnostics and monitor operations. ?You can run with the lid > up or lid down (snaking a ribbon cable out of the drive). ?The molex > connector next to the data connector is to power a small hand-held LED > terminal (I saw one once, used with a high voltage chassis for > particle physics, but the terminal was the same). > > Try plugging in a working VT220 and letting the drive tell you what it > thinks is going on. ?You might find that it's starting to spin up then > not liking what it sees and spinning down. I forgot that I have a DEC Termiflex that plugs into the RA80/81 and the TU81 diagnostic port. I will connect it to the drives this weekend and see if I can get more details on the problem. > Oh... just a detail - you mention locked heads - you _did_ pull the > cord to retension the drive belt, right? ?(for safe transport, the > RA81 has you locking the heads _and_ disengaging the motor from the > HDA by removing belt tension). ?If you didn't do this step, what I > think may happen is the onboard processor will start to spin the > motor, sense no rotation from the HDA, then spin the motor down and > emit a fault code. ?Maybe this is what you are seeing? I saw the pull cable on the right side of the drive. I have used those in the past to replace HDAs or motors. I will make sure that it was not in a position to release tension on the drive. > >> https://sites.google.com/site/ricmwarehouse/Home/equipment/dec-pdp-1144 > > Reading through your blog, I don't think you will have success with > booting 2.11BSD on your 11/44 with a TU81+ unless you have install > media that knows about that tape controller. ?The 2.9BSD tapes I have > require an "MS" device (older OSes might or might not require an "MT" > device). ?Back in the day, there were several incompatible tape > controller types, with different boot ROMs, and your install media had > to match your controller and ROMs (or you had to toggle in the > bootstrap). ?You can install 2.11BSD using vtserver and a virtual tape > drive though. ?Also, if you do get real 2.11BSD install tapes, you'd > probably want to be looking for a TU80 and, IIRC, an M7454 controller > card. > > -ethan I looked at the 2.11BSD setup document and it says that the TU81+ is a supported tape drive. There are two of those drives at RICM, but no TU80. The M8739 KLESI-UA interface for the TU81+ doesn't seem to be common or inexpensive. I think that the RCS/RI guys have one that I could borrow for an installation. It might be simpler to just use vtserver. Thanks for all of the comments. -- Michael Thompson

15 years, 5 months

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SCSI hard drives of large form factors

by ian_primus＠yahoo.com

Here's something I was thinking about the other day. I *know* for a fact that SCSI interface hard drives existed with 8" platters. I've never seen one, however. Does anyone know of any specific model numbers, or have any product information or pictures of such devices? Along the same lines, did SCSI interface devices exist with 14" platters? An option for the venerable Fujitsu Eagle, perhaps? I know that Adaptec made a standalone SCSI-SMD bridge board. I have one, although I've never been able to get it to work. I got as far as hand-crafting SCSI commands to try to get it to format the drive, and it would sit there, device active, but the drive never stepped or seeked off the first cylinder. -Ian

15 years, 5 months

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Need RL02 Controller for PDP-11/44 Restoration

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 01/26/11 15:00, Michael Thompson<michael.99.thompson at gmail.com> wrote: > I am reassembling a PDP-11/44 from parts for the Rhode Island Computer > Museum. I would like to try an RL01 or RL02 drive on the system, but > we don't have another RL02 controller. > > Do any of you have a M7762 RL11 disk controller board that you could > donate or sell inexpensively for this project? Can't help on that one... > The RA81s won't spin up, so I suspect that I need to replace the > starting capacitors. > > Do any of you know where to get replacement starting capacitors for > the RA80 or RA81 drives? I assume you *are* aware of the power sequence bus of the RA8x drives. Without that one properly terminated, the drives will never spin up. Johnny

15 years, 5 months

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OT: DRAM memory controllers within FPGAs

by keithvz＠verizon.net

I was hoping to share my pain with others as a coping mechanism. :) Has anyone else worked with DRAM memory controller implementations within FPGAs? I have been struggling for a couple years to find a workable solution in a hobby environment, first on Xilinx and then on Altera. Both companies seem to push the embedded microprocessor solution, MicroBlaze and Nios II, respectively, as an answer. They both offer a built-in memory controller which makes access to the DRAM much much easier, as it's memory mapped to an address region. But the problem is that there is a certain amount of overhead associated with using the processor both in terms of speed and logic utilization. The processors have a maximum speed and making a "gateway" out of the processor doesn't work for any real application. Many people push "opencores" and say there are 30 or 40 open source memory controllers without realizing that all of the limitations eliminate 99% of what's out there, including: Controllers designed for a particular memory architecture/chip type/ bus width Custom busses that aren't documented Some just don't work Require a specific vendor + FGPA because they use proprietary built-in hardware and so on. There are commercial solutions which cost way too much $$$ and often have advanced features which complicate use for the average hobbyist. I need something that has a FIFO-like(or maybe sram-like) interface on it, and that supports single data rate SDRAM. Something simple. Anyone else run into problems with getting a working memory controller for your projects? Thanks Keith

15 years, 5 months

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WTD: 386 motherboard

by classiccmp＠philpem.me.uk

Hi guys, It seems my 386 has gone off to join the Choir Invisible. I pulled the motherboard to clean off some battery residue and other gunk, and replace the RTC chip socket -- now it's completely dead. I'm getting "D-SUB: NO INPUT" on the monitor, no beeps or noise from the board, no signs of life whatsoever. The HDD spins up, and the lights blink, but the brain isn't doing squat. I did find a broken 14.31818MHz xtal which I've replaced, but still nothing. I have a sneaking suspicion the through-plating on the RTC socket might have gone iffy (I'll be breaking the plastic alignment bands on the socket and soldering the top-side tomorrow) but on the off-chance this fails to resurrect the board.. Does anyone have a 386 or 486 AT-form-factor PC motherboard kicking around? The board I had was one of these: http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/motherboards/I/INFORMTECH-INTERNATIONAL-INC-486… Basically: - Baby-AT -- fits in a mini-tower case, AT power supply - AMD 386DX-40 CPU - Socket for 387 or Weitek math coprocessor - 8 sockets for 30pin SIMMs -- max 32MB, but I've been running this one on 8MB. I've got a box of 72pin SIMMs too. - I/O on expansion cards, or at least some way of disabling the on-motherboard IDE controller. This thing needs to drive a Seagate ST21R RLL controller and a WD WD1003-WA2 (not at the same time, of course!) - A couple of 16-bit ISA slots (this board has 5, I need at least two) I'm wishing I hadn't thrown out my old Pentium-P100 board... that would have been just about perfect for this :( Thanks, -- Phil. classiccmp at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/

15 years, 5 months

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OT: DRAM memory controllers within FPGAs

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

You don't say how much memory you're needing but I would hazard a guess that for many hobbyist or classiccmp-type projects that SRAM could be made to work with little effort. Not that SRAM is cheapest per bit, but in terms of results per unit effort it's hard to beat. Of course it depends on what your desired result is... if you really truly want a DRAM controller, then SRAM won't satisfy you. But in terms of least effort to desired result I think SRAM is a clear winner even if you end up paying more per bit. e.g. when in the late 90's I made a device for reading out arbitrarily formatted floppies and hard disks at MHz rates it was completely trivial to make a fast bit-buffer out of a SRAM chip and a couple of TTL counters and shift registers. Old classiccmp post: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2000-July/151774.html Tim.

15 years, 5 months

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Need RL02 Controller for PDP-11/44 Restoration

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 01/26/11 19:00, Ethan Dicks<ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 9:23 PM, Michael Thompson > <michael.99.thompson at gmail.com> wrote: >> > I am reassembling a PDP-11/44 from parts for the Rhode Island Computer... >> > >> > The RA81s won't spin up, so I suspect that I need to replace the >> > starting capacitors. > I read through the blog - if the motors start spinning as you describe > (I envision you mean for a few seconds; please correct me if this is > wrong)_then_ the drive stops spinning, I doubt it's the capacitors. > If the motors_don't_ start moving when you put the drive online, then > that is one component to examine. Nit pick: The online operation is the "A" and "B" buttons. The "RUN" button is for spinning the drive up. It can be spinning and offline. :-) > RA81s were at one point, exceedingly susceptible to HDA failure. I > don't recall the specific ECO levels, but some version after "E" used > a different glue than its predecessors leading to particulate > contamination leading to catastrophic failure. ISTR looking for "H2" > or "K2" drives after that disaster. Yes. But I think even with the bad glue, the disk do spin up more than a couple of seconds. > RA81 drives have a DB25 inside. You can plug a terminal in and run > on-board diagnostics and monitor operations. You can run with the lid > up or lid down (snaking a ribbon cable out of the drive). The molex > connector next to the data connector is to power a small hand-held LED > terminal (I saw one once, used with a high voltage chassis for > particle physics, but the terminal was the same). Good suggestion. The terminal should be at 300 bps, if I remember right. 8N1. And data leads only is enough. > Try plugging in a working VT220 and letting the drive tell you what it > thinks is going on. You might find that it's starting to spin up then > not liking what it sees and spinning down. > > Oh... just a detail - you mention locked heads - you_did_ pull the > cord to retension the drive belt, right? (for safe transport, the > RA81 has you locking the heads_and_ disengaging the motor from the > HDA by removing belt tension). If you didn't do this step, what I > think may happen is the onboard processor will start to spin the > motor, sense no rotation from the HDA, then spin the motor down and > emit a fault code. Maybe this is what you are seeing? That was a very good suggestion. The belt can be disengaged in two ways, depending on the version of the drive. Either a cord, or else a lever on the inside of the outer wall. It should be pretty obvious when you know what you are looking for, though. With these suggestions, as well as the power control bus to check, the drives should be possible to get running... :-) >> > https://sites.google.com/site/ricmwarehouse/Home/equipment/dec-pdp-1144 > Reading through your blog, I don't think you will have success with > booting 2.11BSD on your 11/44 with a TU81+ unless you have install > media that knows about that tape controller. The 2.9BSD tapes I have > require an "MS" device (older OSes might or might not require an "MT" > device). Back in the day, there were several incompatible tape > controller types, with different boot ROMs, and your install media had > to match your controller and ROMs (or you had to toggle in the > bootstrap). You can install 2.11BSD using vtserver and a virtual tape > drive though. Also, if you do get real 2.11BSD install tapes, you'd > probably want to be looking for a TU80 and, IIRC, an M7454 controller > card. 2.11 will install fine from a TU81. The biggest problem is finding booting roms for the TU81. TU81 is TMSCP, works the same as TK50. Johnny

15 years, 5 months

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CDC/MPI Wren II HH (94205-51) drive manual

by dm561＠torfree.net

---------------Original Message: Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 15:52:20 +0000 From: Philip Pemberton <classiccmp at philpem.me.uk> Subject: CDC/MPI Wren II HH (94205-51) drive manual To: cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4D3DA034.9000702 at philpem.me.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi guys, <snip> I'm planning on replacing the "recommended" 75157/75158 "dual differential driver/receiver" pair with a 26LS31/26LS32 quad diff RX/TX pair on the grounds that: * The 26LS parts are cheaper by about a factor of 3 * the 26LS parts seem to be easier to find (higher stock levels at Farnell and Digikey when I last checked). Anyone reckon I'm likely to have any problems with this substitution? ---------------Reply: I wouldn't think so since the WREN II manual in fact specifies 26LS31/26LS32s ;-) mike

15 years, 5 months

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CDC/MPI Wren II HH (94205-51) drive manual

by classiccmp＠philpem.me.uk

Hi guys, I've just bought myself another Big, Heavy Hard Drive... This time, it's a CDC/Magnetic Peripherals 94205-51, 42MB MFM, 5.25in Half Height, (though it looks a lot bigger than 5.25in), with an ST412 style interface. I also snagged a Western Digital WD1003-WA2 MFM controller, and a full set of cables. Whether I'll be able to fit the WD1003 into the 386 PC remains to be seen: if it will fit, it'll be a tight squeeze. As for condition, there are few bad tracks marked on the drive label, but it spins, appears to pass the seek test, and unlocks the actuator successfully (there's a loud CLACK just before the seek test starts). Question: Does anyone have an OEM Manual or similar for this drive? There's a manual for the Wren II ESDI on Bitsavers, but apparently not for this drive. I can work from the ST506 spec if need be, but the original manual would be nice to have. For the pathologically curious: I'm building an ST412 adapter for the DiscFerret (details will, of course, be published "when it's done"). It turns out I've over-engineered the DiscFerret's PSU quite significantly: even with the 20W load the Wren places on the power rails, the PSU doesn't even break a sweat... I'll probably end up adding a 4-way DIP switch to set the "drive select" value, and run it off of the Ferret's DS0. That leaves me with DS1 to use for head-switching, along with a few other I/Os which are on the Shugart floppy interface but not the ST506 Control connector. MFM RDAT/WDAT will be fed to the High Speed I/O connector for obvious reasons :) I'm planning on replacing the "recommended" 75157/75158 "dual differential driver/receiver" pair with a 26LS31/26LS32 quad diff RX/TX pair on the grounds that: * The 26LS parts are cheaper by about a factor of 3 * the 26LS parts seem to be easier to find (higher stock levels at Farnell and Digikey when I last checked). Anyone reckon I'm likely to have any problems with this substitution? Thanks, -- Phil. classiccmp at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/

15 years, 5 months

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Looking for Schematics for an IMS SIO-2 Card

by trebor77＠execpc.com

I am Looking for Schematics for an IMS SIO-2 Card. I have been working on getting my N* Horizon Running. I added the PROM Option to my N* CPB-A2 but am having trouble with the Monitor Prom. I can't get it to accept Keyboard Input. I have a BYT-8 which I am now using to TEST with in order to bypass any Problems with the Built in Serial Logic on the N* Motherboard. I have the Manuals for the SIO but they don't have the Circuit Diagrams which I want to look at to see the Connections from the Edge Connector to the 8251. I am hoping someone may know where I might obtain them. TIA Bob in Wisconsin

15 years, 5 months

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Continuing adventures with VTServer

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

After another list member kindly patched VTserver.c and recompiled, data would come out on COM2: ok but it still couldn't "hear" the received characters. You won't believe this... the pigtail cable inside the PC, from the motherboard COM2 header to the back-panel DB25, had been installed one position off (by me, of course) =:^O The nonstandard location of TxD and ground on the DB25 should have been my first clue, but I just ass-umed that it was something unique to the PC and not EIA RS-232... I couldn't see any visible damage to the COM2 ribbon cable, but the proof of the pudding was a successful loopback test using a jumper to connect straight to the header pins :) After carefully examining and continuity-checking the pigtail, the inescapable conclusion was that I must have incorrectly plugged it into the header. Sure enough, with proper installation, data comes and goes as ordered. And on the proper pins 2 and 3, also! Recall that, again rather unbelievably, when I first resurrected this old PC from the scrap heap, I found that a mouse had eaten the mouse port cable (not joking) inside the case, but the other ribbon cable pigtail for COM1. Probably I plugged it back in wrong when reinstalling them both. Oh well, live and learn. Now if I could only get TSX-Plus 6.50 to sysgen properly on SIMH, I would have something to VTserve to my PDP-11! -Charles

15 years, 5 months

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SCSI hard drives of large form factors

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> I think some of the Argus 14" drives were SCSI. Oooh, trying to find some overlap here... Ferranti Argus? I'm stretching it though :-) Tim.

15 years, 5 months

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SCSI hard drives of large form factors

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> Here's something I was thinking about the other day. I > *know* for a fact that SCSI interface hard drives existed > with 8" platters. I've never seen one, however. Does anyone > know of any specific model numbers, or have any product > information or pictures of such devices? CDC/Imprimis/Seagate Sabre drives were 8" and available with a variety Of interfaces. SMD, IPI-2, SCSI. J on the end is SMD, K On the end is IPI-2, G on the end is SCSI. The part numbers Are dizzying depending on whether's it's a CDC or Seagate number... 97201-12G is a CDC number, ST81236N is the Seagate number. > Along the same lines, did SCSI interface devices exist with > 14" platters? An option for the venerable Fujitsu Eagle, perhaps? To be nitpicky Eagles are 10.5" platters in a 14" form factor. > I know that Adaptec made a standalone SCSI-SMD bridge board. I > have one, although I've never been able to get it to work. I > got as far as hand-crafting SCSI commands to try to get it to > format the drive, and it would sit there, device active, but > the drive never stepped or seeked off the first cylinder. I have seen Eagles with bridge cards in the back. I don't think Fujitsu made them that way but they were added by US-based vendors. You are most likely to find Sabre and SCSI-SMD bridge drives if you find Late 80's/early 90's Sun installations. If you're lucky you can find Some SCSI-Pertec Formatted bridges and tape drives too. Tim.

15 years, 5 months

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ENIAC ....

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Evan writes: > BUT .... wouldn't everyone also agree that, at the very > least, to be a "computer" a machine must be programmable? Personally, I would not agree. In the 1940's "computing" definitely meant solving systems of linear equations (ABC) and artillery tables (ENIAC) and other applications (e.g. Analytical Engine). Note that even today LAPACK (linear equations) is the Standard supercomputer benchmark. In the 2000's "computing" usually means E-mail, Web, and Word Processing, all of which can be done on machines that lack or lock out end-user programming. And compare with 21st century "quantum computing" which is set up on optical benches. Tim.

15 years, 5 months

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ENIAC . . . .

by wbblair3＠yahoo.com

This is a fantastic, technically oriented book from MIT Press that I heartily recommend to anyone seriously interested in the history of computers: The First Computers--History and Architectures http://www.amazon.com/First-Computers--History-Architectures-History-Comput… An excerpt from it comparing the ENIAC with the ENIAC-on-a-chip is found, along with an image of the ENIAC chip, at the bottom of my web page here: http://diephotos.blogspot.com/

15 years, 5 months

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Need blank 3U panel, PDP-11 corporate cabinet

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

I've been looking at a blank space in the front of my PDP-11/23+ for quite a while. Since I have been wrestling with TSX-Plus, and changing unit 0 packs frequently, I have finally got around to rearranging it "correctly" as shown on the cover of Microcomputers and Memories (thanks Pete for the pic). That is, with one RL02 drive on top, a 1U blank panel, and the 11/23+ underneath that. Then a 3U space, the other RL02, and the bottom panel. Now the "hole" is even more obvious. http://s1181.photobucket.com/albums/x426/DrCharlesMorris/?action=view&curre… Does anyone (preferably in the US so postage won't be outrageous) have a 3U blank panel I can purchase (or trade something for)? I'm also wondering if there is supposed to be some kind of long narrow cover plates along the top between the RL02 and the side panels? http://s1181.photobucket.com/albums/x426/DrCharlesMorris/?action=view&curre… thanks Charles

15 years, 5 months

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Old LCD info

by afra＠aurigae.demon.co.uk

Hi, I'm trying to repair an old Husky rugged handheld, circa 1981 so deffo on topic :) Anyway the machine mostly seems to work apart from the LCD is a little flakey. It can only be read from a cirtain angle and fades after a couple of minutes on. The LCD is an Epson MA-B965B does anyone have, or know where I can get the datasheet for this module ? Cheers, Phill. -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush.

15 years, 5 months

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Sun and DEC equipment in the in Duesseldorf, Germany

by alexandre.laguejacques＠gmail.com

Hello all, Just sounding the mailing list. Is there anyone in the area of K?ln (Cologne)/D?sseldorf, Germany that would be interested in the following: (1) a dual-processor SPARCstation 20 (maximum RAM, 8 MB VRAM, 2x75 MHz processors); (2) a DEC 3000-300 ("Pelican" Alpha station); (3) a Sun Netra T1 with 768 MB RAM; or (4) two Sun 601 enclosures containing 120 GB non-SE drives? Before I put them on eBay, I wanted to check here. I do need some money for these items (struggling student and all...). Thanks, Alex

15 years, 5 months

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Sol-20 system in Seattle

by shumaker＠att.net

For those interested, there is a really nice looking Sol-20 "with extensive documentation and various software applications" as well as a dual floppy drive posted on CL for Seatle. Looks in very clean condition. Seattle Craigs List item: 2167746702

15 years, 5 months

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Help with DHV11/16 card?

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

Being stuck indoors by bad weather, I started tinkering with my PDP-11/23+ system :) The 11/23+ chassis came with a sixteen-serial-line (Camintonn DHV11/16) card which is complete with a rack panel of 16 DE-9 serial ports, and fortunately the scrappers had not cut the ribbon cable going to it. Also, somewhere I acquired an RL02 pack with TSX-Plus 5.0, which boots to RT11SJ and even runs TSX+, although I don't have all the devices the original system had. So I would like to set up the system for timesharing using the 16-line card. After perusing the TSX+ manuals I believe I can accomplish a system generation, except for one problem - I don't know the interrupt vector and CSR addresses for the Camintonn DHV11/16. Nothing on Google I could find, and on Bitsavers there is a DEC DHV11 manual but that's an eight-line card... can anyone help with tech info on this 16-line card? thanks Charles (doesn't really need a multi-user system since I'm the only user) :)

15 years, 5 months

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IBM Centennial Film: They Were There - People who changed the way the world works

by eric＠brouhaha.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrhDaAmn5Uw

15 years, 5 months

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FS: Windows 3.0 and MS-DOS 5.0

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

More vintage software, gathering dust... Windows 3.0 on five 1.2MB 5.25" floppy disks. Used once (to load the hard drive on a Zenith 486-33). Appear to be in perfect shape but I no longer have any PC's with five-inch drives. Microsoft MS-DOS 5.0 on five 5.25" floppies. Also only read once. $10 for each set (*includes postage* in USA). Will ship internationally for additional postage. thanks Charles

15 years, 5 months

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FS: another Apple II prototyping board

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

Found in the junkbox: another Apple II prototyping board made by "Suntronics", their p/n SUN722. This one has a number of wire wrap sockets tack-soldered (by one pin on each opposite corner only, so they can be easily removed if desired). Mix of gold and tin plated contacts. There is (1) 40-pin, (2) 28-pin, (3) 20-pin, (3) 16-pin, and (5) 14-pin DIP sockets. http://s1181.photobucket.com/albums/x426/DrCharlesMorris/?action=view&curre… http://s1181.photobucket.com/albums/x426/DrCharlesMorris/?action=view&curre… $10.00 (shipped free in USA). thanks Charles

15 years, 5 months

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HP150 Touchscreen diagnostic

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

I guess the HP150 counts as a 'classic computer'... I have an HP150 (origianl model, 9" CRT) on my bench, and amongst other things it's reporting touchscreen problems in the POST. This is quite common with such machines, and nearly always means that one or more of the IR beams was blocked during the test. This is often due to dirt build-up on the faces of the opto-devices. it can be due to failure of the devices themselves. The touchscreen electroncis is mounted on a frame-shaped PCB that fits just behind the front bezel. The interface to the rest of the machine is 1 10 pin header plug. From what I rmemeber (and I do have pinouts and shcematics), there are 3 +12V pins, 3 ground pins, a -12V pin and 3 signals : A clcok input (to touchscreen) that moves the IR beam on to the next position A synv output (from the touchscreen) which indicates that the last IR beam is being sampled (or maybe last + 1) I would ahve to check A data output which indicates if the currently selected beam is open or blocked. These signals are all at odd voltage levels (the touchscreen cirucitry is 4000 series CMOS running off a 10V supply obtained from the +12V rail). HP use transsitors on the CPU PCB to get them to/from TTL levels. they then end up on the pins of an 8042 microcontroller which also handles the keyboard and beeper. Connecting a logic analyser to these signals indeed shows that there are some beams that appear blocked. The obvious thing is to be able ot determine which ones so I know which optodevices to test/inspect. I can think of several ways of doing this : Count the clock pulses on the logic analyser screen :-) Make a circuit -- a handful of logic chips, shfit registers, etc that connects to the touchscreen, generates the clock signal, etc and displys the state of each beam on a separate LED. Probably possible with the contents of my junk box, and anywas as I've said, I like soldering. Ditto, but use a microcontroller. It keeps the chip count down, bnt it's probably more work for me. The command list for the 8042 on the HP150 CPU board (in one of the HP manuals) includes a command to test which IR beams are blocked (this is not the same as reporting the touchscreen corrdinates). Unfotunately, (a) you can't use this if the makhine is scannign the keyboard and (b) the description seems incomplete. It says that this command will return 2 bytes giving the numbers of any blocked berams. Well, with only 16 birs (and 36 beams), it can't be a bit vector. It also says that if both bytes are 0xff, then no beams are blocked, if one is 0xff then only one beam is blocked (specified by the other byte). What happens if more than 2 beams are blocked? More importantly, since to use this command you have to disable interrupts and stop the keyboard scanning, it's not going to be possible to do it from interpretted BASIC. And the programming lanaugages on this old version of MS-DOS are not that pleasant... iI can't find an HP diagnostic that gives detailed information on touchscreen problems, or any reference to one. Any suggestions/comments? -tony

15 years, 5 months

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HP150 Touchscreen diagnostic

by jonas＠otter.se

> > >3) I am not sure my video camera has much sensitivity in the IR. It > > >depends > > on which vidicon is fitted, I think. > > > > Yes, stupid of me I should have known, mea culpa ;-) > > I cna't beelive you've forgotten my taste for older devices :-) > What do you mean, "older"? Vidicons are modern. Iconoscopes and image orthicons are "older". Cranky ol' Jonas

15 years, 5 months

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TZ30 tape drive (faulty?)

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I recently acquired a TZ30 tape drive. It does not want to load any tapes I put in it. I have never used a TZ30 before so I am not sure how it is supposed to be used. Let me explain what happens: The lock lever is over to the left in the unlocked position. I insert the tape in the slot, but nothing prevents it being pushed out again, I have to hold it in place while I move the lock lever across. This does not feel right, but I don't know, is it supposed to stay in place without me having to hold it there? While I am holding the tape in place the green light comes on and does not flash. After moving the lever to the lock position the lights flash a few moments and then the green light flashes to tell me there is a problem with the tape. However the drive mechanism makes no attempt to load the tape (I can see this because I have the cover of the system removed). It strikes me that the drive is faulty, but it could be user error. Can someone tell me if I am doing it right, and if I am, does anyone know of any well-known faults that might cause this? Thanks Rob

15 years, 5 months

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SA4000 [was: Disc drive READY output -- any standards?]

by thomas.gardner＠sbcglobal.net

> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 11:03:56 -0500 > From: "Shoppa, Tim" <tshoppa at wmata.com> > Subject: Re: SA4000 [was: Disc drive READY output -- any standards?] > To: "cctalk at classiccmp.org" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: > <B136EDE3DF5EC441B6F08E0A7AB872450BACFA3EA4 at EX2K7-CMS-1.wmata.local> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Chuck mentions: <snip> > Without a doubt the stepper motor+band positioner was a huge step forward > in economizing microcomputer-oriented hard drives. > > I figured that chronologically the taut-band floppy drives came first but > now that I think about it, maybe the SA4000 came first and the floppy > application came later? > > Certainly stepper-motor use was first in the floppies. At least, AFAIK :-) > > Tim. The band-capstan-stepper motor actuator usage in disk drive art was probably invented by Warren Dalziel (US Patent # 4,161,004) who tells me he is pretty sure he designed the linear version for the double sided floppy (SA850) first and then the hard drive rotary version (SA4000). I suspect they shipped in that order too but the SA4000 probably wasn't too far behind. The patent filing date is Apr 5, 1977 which, given the way things work, is probably just before the first public showing. Anyone know of any early disk drives with a band-capstan-stepper motor actuator? Tom

15 years, 5 months

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FS: M9302 Unibus terminator card

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

FS cheap: One M9302 (dual-height) Unibus terminator card. Don't need and can't test because I only have a Qbus PDP-11! There isn't much on it that could go wrong though. Make me any reasonable offer... shipping from US zip 65775. thanks Charles

15 years, 5 months

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Can someone patch VTserver?

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 02:02:58 -0600, you wrote: >Have you considered using a PS/2 mouse to free up COM1:? I am not sure exactly what one is... but this is a very old (relatively speaking) PC; the only jacks on the back panel besides the parallel printer port are the 9-pin COM1: and 25-pin COM2: ports. >Alternatively, if you're using XP, go to Settings->Control Panel- >>System and look at the Resources for COM1: and COM2:. Uncheck the >"use automatic settings" box and swap the IRQ and port addresses of >COM1: and COM2: > >That might work... > >--Chuck Thanks, but I already thought of that and tried it. Then the mouse didn't work :( and Windows is already enough of a PITA before taking away mouse support. Looks like the binary editor may be the best patch! -Charles

15 years, 5 months

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Can someone patch VTserver?

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

I'm pulling my hair out... trying to get an old PC with two COM ports to work with VTServer. Setup: WinXP, AMD K6/300 CPU. Serial mouse is plugged into the DE-9 connector and it's COM1. There is a DB-25 connector on COM2. I can use MS-DOS COPY/B to send binary files out the COM2 port, so I know COM2 works. Unfortunately, after examining the C source code of VTserver, it appears that it is hard-coded to use COM1 only. The comments are interesting ;) >void open_port() >{ >#ifdef _MSC_VER > /* The following is sort of like APL. If I have to explain it to you, you don't deserve to know. */ > /* Actually, I copied most of it from the examples, and I don't understand it that well myself */ > > DCB dcb; > struct _COMMTIMEOUTS TO = {MAXDWORD,MAXDWORD,1,2,1000}; /* NOTE -- timeouts are hard wired for 9600 baud or higher */ > > fprintf(stderr,"Opening port %s .... ", port); fflush(stderr); > > portfd = CreateFile("COM1:",GENERIC_READ|GENERIC_WRITE,0,0,OPEN_EXISTING,FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED,0); > if(portfd == INVALID_HANDLE_VALUE) > { > fprintf(stderr, "can't open COM1:"); > exit(1); > } Not surprisingly, even when using an initialization line (in the .vtrc setup file) of MODE COM2:19200,n,8,1 which does setup the COM2 port properly, VTserver then outputs to the console: "Opening port COM2:.... can't open COM1:" Aaarrrgh!!! I CANNOT get WinXP and this particular motherboard/BIOS to put the damn mouse on COM2 so I can use COM1. IIRC I encountered this problem years ago when last using VTserver, but that was on a different and even older Win98 PC, and finally did manage to put the mouse on the other port. So the only other fix is to recompile VTserver to use port 2, and I don't even think I have a C compiler let alone any experience using it. Can someone *please* patch VTserver so I can use COM2 instead? thanks for any help! -Charles

15 years, 5 months

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Radio Shack Science Fair manuals

by matt_marn＠optusnet.com.au

Hi, I was wondering if you knew how to get a copy or an original manual for the 28-249 200 in 1 electronic project lab, thanks, matt.

15 years, 5 months

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Northgate omnikey ultra

by equityfi＠comcast.net

I will buy it from you for the $5.00 as I have one and need some of the parts. Thanks, Allen

15 years, 5 months

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SA4000 [was: Disc drive READY output -- any standards?]

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Chuck mentions: > I don't think anyone has mentioned that the SA4000 was remarkable in > that it was a hard disk that used a stepper motor as a positioner. > Up until that time, every hard drive I know of used either some sort > of servo or mechanical adder (e.g. Univac FASTRAND (okay, it's a > drum, but a movable head drum) or Bryant 4000). A hard drive using a > stepper was extremely unusual before the SA4000. Without a doubt the stepper motor+band positioner was a huge step forward in economizing microcomputer-oriented hard drives. I figured that chronologically the taut-band floppy drives came first but now that I think about it, maybe the SA4000 came first and the floppy application came later? Certainly stepper-motor use was first in the floppies. At least, AFAIK :-) Tim.

15 years, 5 months

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Can someone patch VTserver?

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 12:00:01 -0600, you wrote: >From: cctech at vax-11.org > >It looks like you could open the binary up in Emacs, and perform a global >search/replace of COM1 with COM2. > >Clint Good idea, suggested by Ed also, so I just tried it. Although VTserver now says it opened COM2:, and starts transmitting (the usual slow scrolling line feeds appear, I don't have it hooked up to the PDP-11)... But. There is nothing actually coming out of the COM2: port! For hardware test purposes, in the MSDOS window "COPY/B <somefile> COM2:" *does* work correctly (I can see with a scope the serial data coming out on the COM2 TxD pin). More ideas please? thanks -Charles

15 years, 5 months

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Uncorrupted A/UX 3.1 Update ?

by snhirsch＠gmail.com

Can someone help me out with the above? All the copies I've been able to find on the net have an md5sum consistent with a known-bad image. Thanks in advance. Steve --

15 years, 5 months

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Running TSX-Plus under SIMH?

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

Just wondering if anyone has tried to run TSX-Plus under SIMH? Thanks to another list member, I was able to obtain a copy of the version 6.50 distribution (on "simulated floppy"). It took me all afternoon to re-learn how to use EDIT (which *really* makes you appreciate modern full-screen editors!) and modify TSGEN.MAC. I set it up to match the existing settings of my DLV11/16D card (whichappears as two DLV11's). TSGEN assembles without errors. There are some linker errors though, but the manual says at least some of them are to be expected. I copied the new TSX files and RT11SJ 4.0 over to the simulated RL02 and boot from it. RT-11 boots normally. But when attempting to execute TSX.SAV, SIMH gives an error and halts... I can't see anything wrong with the system generation but it's a lot of work to create a pack with VTServer for the new hardware if it's got a bug. I'm wondering if SIMH can't handle the time-sharing stuff or lack of a simulated DHV11 card. Any thoughts? thanks Charles

15 years, 5 months

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Emailing: SCSI to IDE.htm

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

SCSI to IDE Tom Gardner thomas.gardner <mailto:cctalk%40classiccmp.org?Subject=Re%3A%20SCSI%20to%20IDE&In-Reply-To= %3C5450F2940A10417780E426EC57A9C5E1%40tegp4%3E> at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 1 17:35:52 CST 2010 * Previous message: SCSI to IDE <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/294657.html> * Next message: SCSI to IDE <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/294665.html> * Messages sorted by: [ date ] <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/date.html#294658> [ thread ] <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/thread.html#294658> [ <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/subject.html#294658> subject ] [ author ] <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/author.html#294658> _____ I haven't been following this thread too closely so I may have missed something, but it seems to me that the proposed solutions are overly complex. One simple solution that comes to mind is to define a set of vendor unique SCSI commands, one for each of the registers in the IDE command stack and then do all the emulation in the device driver on the host side. The interface card is just then a simple state machine; really simple if u make it a non arbitrating protocol implementation and use PIO for data transfers (SCSI-1 lives :-). Tom _____ * Previous message: SCSI to IDE <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/294657.html> * Next message: SCSI to IDE <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/294665.html> * Messages sorted by: [ date ] <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/date.html#294658> [ thread ] <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/thread.html#294658> [ <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/subject.html#294658> subject ] [ author ] <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/author.html#294658> _____ More information <http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk> about the cctalk mailing list _____ -----REPLY----- I agree and have started a new thread for a SCSI to IDE converter board over on Vintage-Computer.com forums. If you or anyone is interested in the project stop on by and help out. http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?22906-SCSI-1-to-from- IDE-drive-converter The project is a Z80 CPU, NVSRAM, EEPROM, UART, 8255 PPI IDE, and Z53C80 SCSI-1 controller. The UART is for a serial port to program the converter board and store parameters in the NVSRAM and allows for ROM reprogramming in circuit. It is on a dual layer Eurocard and uses 14 ICs plus connectors, passives, etc. Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch

15 years, 5 months

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[rescue] PDP flip chips and memory boards, many lbs. worth (fwd)

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I figured that someone here who's not on the Sunhelp list might appreciate this. David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 20:21:26 -0500 From: Patrick Giagnocavo <patrick at zill.net> Reply-To: The Rescue List <rescue at sunhelp.org> To: The Rescue List <rescue at sunhelp.org> Subject: [rescue] PDP flip chips and memory boards, many lbs. worth Some of you here know that I recycle old PC motherboards, etc. though whenever possible I try to divert anything valuable/historical out of the melt-it-down pile. I have many pounds, well over 100lbs., of DEC PDP "flip chip" modules. I have to charge for them, but would like to sell all of them, all at once, to 1 person if possible, at a per-lb price ($8 per lb). Given that these flip chip modules are not very heavy this works out to well under $2 each, I think. Some are in original plastic shrink wrap, but most are not, and have been exposed to moisture but are otherwise complete; some have had the resistors or capacitors on them "weep" which means they would have to be replaced by someone competent with a soldering iron. A random listing of the few that I pulled out: A123 A206 A207 G728 K012 K026 K028 K123 K124 K134 K161 K202 K210 K303 K683 M113 M1502 M155 M207 M230 M502 M652 M7264 M783 M7941 M920 M974 There are many more. Are there any PDP collectors on this list - I know there used to be but perhaps this stuff is just too old these days. Cordially Patrick Giagnocavo patrick at zill.net _______________________________________________ rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

15 years, 5 months

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Long term publicly accessible backups [Was: Uncorrupted A/UX 3.1 Update]

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 1/18/11 6:07 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > If you have people willing to make that kind of commitment, then a > few websites, plus distribution of CDs, DVDs, and whatever comes > nextwould accomplish the same thing, and would survive the total loss > of any one collection. Think Don Maslin (R.I.P.) Yeah. Using Usenet as an archiving mechanism is one of the worst ideas I've heard in a very long time. The real solution to this problem is a few people with grownup networks (i.e., people with static IP addresses who aren't afraid to actually run some computers, or someone with a machine in colo space) to set up rsync run from a cron job. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

15 years, 5 months

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