- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by feldman.r＠comcast.net

>Message: 6 >Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 09:43:21 -0800 (PST) >From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> > >So, is it a flat spiral or a helix? >Either one at 10" diameter is an impressively long scale, for a LOT of >accuracy! It seems like it would be physically impossible to make a flat spiral _SLIDE_ rule (where one scale can be repositioned against another scale). The Computer History Museum has a spiral slide rule (http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/accession/102633252), but it is not clear from the picture if the scales _SLIDE_ against each other. In a spiral, the area of a segment that as one degree wide by one spiral line to the next decreases as one goes toward the center, so a slide would bind if you tried to turn it toward the center or would be loose and not evenly contact the next band if you turned it away from the center. In an earlier post in this thread, someone said that they had not used their slide rule in anger. As a kid, I made something that would have been useful if they had wanted to. I took a cheap wooden slide rule, lightly sanded the groves, waxed the slide, and wrapped four big rubber bands along the length, so one end was on the outer part at one end and the other end was on the slide. Worked sort of like a cross bow or spear gun. I could send the slider through 6 layers of corrugated card board at about 20 feet! Bob

13 years, 3 months

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Burroughs adding machine

by jules.richardson99＠gmail.com

Any early Burroughs experts here? Yesterday I discovered a Burroughs "Style no. 3" adding machine in a junk/antiques store (the kind of wonderful store where you have to dig through stuff to get to more stuff, and when you get to that there's even more stuff underneath/inside it :-) Anyway, it's got the pedestal, side-desk and printing mechanism (at least I assume that the gubbins at the back is a printer, although I couldn't immediately see how it transfers to the paper - poss. just not visible with the platen in the way). It seems to be basically the same as this one: http://www.fi.edu/learn/sci-tech/adding-machine/adding-machine.php ... except: 1) it doesn't have the row of red/white keys across the top, 2) the desk on this one is much larger/nicer, 3) there's no ornate Burroughs script at the base of the keyboard area; instead it says "Burroughs" and "center of type" above the keyboard, 4) the backing to the keyboard seems to be black (not green) 5) the keytop for the lower-left key on the keyboard is red (and a little larger), not metal. The mechanism seems free and cosmetically it's in pretty good shape, considering that it's probably pushing 100 years in age - the main drawback is that it's missing one of the '2' keys (the R/H side glass is cracked and the rubber pads at the top of the pedestal have disintegrated, but both of those problems should be solvable). Immediate questions: 1) Any idea of age? s/n is 27434. I'm leaning toward 1906 as that seems to be when the no. 3 showed up, and by October of that year there had been some 40,000 of them built - but that's assuming that the serial numbers don't carry across all models. I'm surprised if they built that many of them before they were rendered obsolete by a newer model, though. 2) The lack of '2' key is really the main thing stopping me from bringing this thing home. I expect they're common to many early Burroughs machines; is anyone known to carry parts from junk machines, or has anyone succeeded in creating a reproduction key using modern materials? cheers Jules

13 years, 3 months

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MPX-16 (Was: BS about "changes in cost of cheapest machines"

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 11:59 AM PST Chuck Guzis wrote: >On 03/07/2013 11:34 PM, Chris Tofu wrote: > >> Okay, I've got the schematics for the Explorer 88/PC (Netronics R&D, New >> LItchfield, Conn), which uses an 8250 for async, has a separate keyboard >> and cassette interface. No video as far as I can tell. >> >> Would you consider sharing these with your down trodden brothers in the community who've had to go without? > >Google Is Your Friend. Look at the ad on page 4 of this PDF: > >http://www.thecomputerarchive.com/archive/Magazines/Kilobaud%20Microcomputi… > >Netronics marketed a variety of kits--the original Explorer, which I believe was a Z80 box, the Explorer 85, which was an 8085 box and the Explorer 88/PC. Looking at the prices is somewhat germane to the original topic. Can you imagine spending $250 for a floppy controller card or $300 for a keyboard? > >Marcus has some "Blue Seed" stuff on his site: > >http://maben.homeip.net/static/S100/IBM/5150%20PC/blue%20seed%20IBM%20Mothe… > >--Chuck I'll check it out. Thanks for getting back. So many find my "condition" offensive. A lot of people indeed do have a problem with people's problems. I'm doing my best to address the logorreah (and my poor spelling). But Hashem it's not like it's halitosis! I feel so isolated. As long as Top Gunner doesn't consign me to the iggy bin I feel I'm making progress. I have a lot of interest in sbc's. I wish I knew how to better research them, in particular the quasi mythical millions of 80186/80188 based embedded controllers. I walked into a place in Bohemia Long Island many years ago and they were manufacturing just that. Apparently a great many small companies were doing just that -

13 years, 3 months

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MPX-16 (Was: BS about "changes in cost of cheapest machines"

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:26 PM PST Chuck Guzis wrote: >Okay, I've got the schematics for the Explorer 88/PC (Netronics R&D, New >LItchfield, Conn), which uses an 8250 for async, has a separate keyboard >and cassette interface. No video as far as I can tell. Would you consider sharing these with your down trodden brothers in the community who've had to go without? >I also have an ISA card with 6 banks of 4164s and an Intual DUART on it. > >And I recall the "Blue Seed" kits. Please expound. >Lots of interest in the early PC, apparently. Aye. >--Chuck >

13 years, 3 months

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BS about "changes in cost of cheapest machines"

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 18:11 -0600 3/7/13, <cctalk-request at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > I decided that way because that price beat Ciarcia Circuit >> Cellar's price for a *kit* for an 8086 SBC, > >"Micromint SB180??"? (PC compatible 9 slot) >I built one of those. Don't remember the exact name (MPX-16 from later posts), but pretty sure that's the system! Fred, you are positively the Man; that is totally awesome! How did the board work out? One of my few computing regrets is never getting to play around on that machine, although I love the Mac. I did get a Rainbow 100B years later, so I got as much of MS-DOS (3.10b) as I wanted. Decided I liked CP/M 80/86 better, and the Rainbow did that too. -- - Mark 210-379-4635 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Asteroids headed toward planets inhabited by beings that don't have technology adequate to stop them: Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward.

13 years, 3 months

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BS about "changes in cost of cheapest machines"

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 3:22 -0600 3/7/13, Fred wrote: >1985 Mac ~$3000 >1985 Mac using scrounged stuff ~$3000 - NOT AN OPTION. >1985 Mac bare ~$3000 (Macintosh was not amenable in the 1980s to cutting True in general, but my Fat Mac in about 1985 [1] cost ~$1500 (new) including University of Texas' academic discount (I was a student). I decided that way because that price beat Ciarcia Circuit Cellar's price for a *kit* for an 8086 SBC, and the 68000 looked more powerful to me than the 8086. I mistakenly thought that I'd be writing most of my own software in either case - and I've yet to really learn any assembly language. I totally misjudged the development of MacOS and applications, or the speed at which MS-DOS' hardware requirements would advance ... Anyway, my point is that exceptions to Apple pricing did exist, and were (at least in my case, though not necessarily for the right reasons) decisive. [1] I was going to say, "I still have it", but on thoughtful consideration, I guess I only still have the bottom and front bezel of the case and the CRT. Power supply re-built, logic board upgraded to Mac Plus which required replacement of case back. Not too sure about the frame - is that the same between a Plus and a Fat Mac? I still have the mouse and keyboard and power cable. -- - Mark 210-379-4635 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Asteroids headed toward planets inhabited by beings that don't have technology adequate to stop them: Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward.

13 years, 3 months

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MPX-16 (Was: BS about "changes in cost of cheapest machines"

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:19 PM PST Fred Cisin wrote: >http://books.google.com/books?id=zQWNinpbFx0C&pg=PA120&source=gbs_selected_… >p158 Just how compatible was this thing? Did the article make any references to vid? I must assume the bios was supplied by phoenix or someone -

13 years, 3 months

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Personal Computer Museum of Brantford, Ontario in today's National Post!

by pet4032＠gmail.com

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/03/07/vintage-computer-museum-aims-t… The National Post is a national Canadian newspaper with a circulation of 144,116. Personal Computer Museum site: http://www.pcmuseum.ca/ If you are ever up in the Southern Ontario area, it is a must visit! Cheers, Bryan

13 years, 3 months

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Did Dave Dunfield's cp/m archive on classiccmp.org go boom ?

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:27 PM PST mc68010 wrote: >None of my links are working anymore. Just gives a 503 error. I need me some disk images. Apparently no one has heard from Dave in a while.

13 years, 3 months

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BS about "changes in cost of cheapest machines"

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:57 PM PST Chuck Guzis wrote: >On 03/07/2013 12:42 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > >> It had NINE slots, with the alternate ones spaced the same as the 5150, >> thus permitting 5150 case if you didn't need bracket on four of them. >> But, the UNUSUAL part about it was that it was designed to work from a >> terminal, instead of PC style keyboard and screen. That apparently didn't >> work out, so he came out with a keyboard ISA card. (to make the machine >> forgettable) > >I have a booklet of schematics for a very similar kit, but I don't think the name is "Micromint". Also, wasn't the UART something like an 8274, rather than an 8250, shared with DRAM on an ISA board? > >--Chuck The articles appeared in BYTE, was even on the cover of one issue. An individual gave away one on this list a few years ago (took a minute, Rich Cini).

13 years, 3 months

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BS about "changes in cost of cheapest machines"

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:57 PM PST Chuck Guzis wrote: >On 03/07/2013 12:42 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > >> It had NINE slots, with the alternate ones spaced the same as the 5150, >> thus permitting 5150 case if you didn't need bracket on four of them. >> But, the UNUSUAL part about it was that it was designed to work from a >> terminal, instead of PC style keyboard and screen. That apparently didn't >> work out, so he came out with a keyboard ISA card. (to make the machine >> forgettable) > >I have a booklet of schematics for a very similar kit, but I don't think the name is "Micromint". Also, wasn't the UART something like an 8274, rather than an 8250, shared with DRAM on an ISA board? > >--Chuck The articles appeared in BYTE, was even on the cover of one issue. An individual gave away one on this list a few years ago (took a minute, Rich Cini).

13 years, 3 months

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Keyboard with skull and crossbones key (U11)

by barythrin＠gmail.com

Anyone know what keyboard this is/was and if it was really standard? One of the dudes collecting stuff at Electronics Plus last weekend I think got it for a collector friend who's on this list. There were two of the keyboards, obviously from some government terminal/system but only one had the key. On top it was a skull and crossbones but on the user facing side it I believe said U11 as with most of the keys up there so it seemed legit. Thought it was funny but can't find much mention of it out there. Alternatively if you have it and have a pic somewhere I'd love to see it again :-) - John

13 years, 3 months

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TOSEC on archive.org

by barythrin＠gmail.com

Its the actual programs offered or just the list of known apps?

13 years, 3 months

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Raspberry Pi

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 3:45 AM PST Alexander Schreiber wrote: >On Fri, Mar 01, 2013 at 09:36:24PM -0800, Chris Tofu wrote: >> Well, back then the internet was a much more open, trusting environment. >> >> And even back then, _proper_ system setup safeguards (limiting access to >> rsh/rlogin, enforcing strong passwords, ...) could have severly limited >> the spread of the worm. >> >> C: Not to mention that probably every internet host on planet earth was running UNIX. > >No. There were plenty of other systems, among them VAXen with VMS and >others. okay that is a good point. but I'm sure all those were still woefully in the minority >> ??? Was the worm supposed to attack Commie 64s? Coco's? Those vile Timex Sinclairs? > >If you'd bothered to read a bit, you'd know the anser. the answer to what Alex. whether the worm would attack car Commies, Cocos or Sinclairs? I already know that answer thanks. >Kind regards, > Alex. >PS: Fix your quoting, having to repair it is annoying. >-- >"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and > looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

13 years, 3 months

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Temperature scales (was: Re: Slide Rules)

by mtapley＠swri.edu

On 5 March 2013 22:30, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: >Actually, for practicla purposes 10 is a very inconvenient base for a >measuremtn sytem becuase it has so few factors. ... >Not me!. Assuming you mean pure water at normal atmospheric pressure >I'll have 273.15 for freezing and 373.15 for boiling. Wouldn't you *really* rather have, say, *144* degrees between freezing and boiling, or maybe between absolute zero and freezing? I mean, if 10 is an inconvenient base, 10^2 has all the same problems twice over... :-) P.S. At 1:29 -0600 3/6/13, Arno Kletzander wrote: >Now that's the bad news, This Is America (and across a large body of >water from my POV). Hm. I'm thinking we should start taking up a collection to purchase a transatlantic-capable yacht for Will Donzelli ... (more :-) ) -- - Mark 210-379-4635 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Asteroids headed toward planets inhabited by beings that don't have technology adequate to stop them: Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward.

13 years, 4 months

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TOSEC on archive.org

by geneb＠deltasoft.com

TOSEC, The Old School Emulation Center archives are now on archive.org. There's a lot of interesting stuff in the collection. Check it out: http://archive.org/search.php?query=collection%3Atosec&sort=-publicdate Capsule descriptions are needed for the various collections - if you can help, join the #iatosec channel on any efnet IRC server. tnx. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!

13 years, 4 months

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DEC and non DEC disk packs

by useddec＠gmail.com

Still digging for several requests for parts, and have found some packs I don't need. 5- RK07K-DC Some have labels on them including XXDP, but I have no way of checking them. I think there is one RK06 pack left also. 2- RA60-P Used, no idea what is on them. 1- RA60-P Looks new , sealed in plastic bag with some cutd in the bag. 2- 80MB Looks like RM02/03, CDC9762 packs No other numbers found yet 1- CDC883-51 CE pack 1- CE pack, looks like RP06, or al least that size. No other numbers found yet. All untested, if interested, please contact me off list. shipping from 61853, IL Thanks, Paul

13 years, 4 months

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BS about "changes in cost of cheapest machines" (Was: Raspberry

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 6:02 PM PST Fred Cisin wrote: >> >I think in addition to cctalk and cctech, we need a third list - ccrant? >> ...or cccranks... > >Ok, Ok. > >cclogorrhea Sure why not. But it takes logorrheic to know one. Maybe there's an equivalent 12 steps....

13 years, 4 months

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BS about "changes in cost of cheapest machines" (Was: Raspberry

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 5:33 PM PST Ian King wrote: >I think in addition to cctalk and cctech, we need a third list - ccrant? >-- Ian ...or cccranks...

13 years, 4 months

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Assorted books FFS

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I have some books that I'd like to get rid of for cost of shipping plus maybe a beer. It should be around $5 for anyone in the US. *Instructor's Manual for Problem Solving and Programming in Fortran 77 (3rd ed) by Cunningham *UNIX Primer Plus by Waite Group Staff (1983, Softcover) *Introduction to WordStar by Arthur Naiman (1983, Paperback) *WordStar with Style by Roger White (1983, Paperback) *The Illustrated CP/M WordStar Dictionary with MailMerge and SpellStar *Word Processing on the Kaypro by Peter A. McWilliams (1983, Paperback) -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

13 years, 4 months

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Printer collecting [Was: Laserjet fuser rollers - cleaning]

by Arno_1983＠gmx.de

On 03/02/2013 04:52 PM, Mr Ian Primus wrote: > Speaking of old LaserJets - does anyone aside from me collect them? > I've got a decent collection older models, although somehow I don't > have a LaserJet II or original LaserJet. I do have the oddball 4V > though. Yep, I have to admit that I also collect printers, and not just one series at that... I do have some rather common models as "workhorses" (NEC P2200, LJ3, LJ4, -L, -M plus) or because I was given them and couldn't bring myself to throwing them out yet (far too many HP, Epson and Canon inkjets) but tend to focus on exots and niche models otherwise - NEC CP7 and Star LC24 with their multizone color ribbon, Citizen Overture and Sharp JX lasers which very visibly are early copier descendents, two OKI linear LED array printers, one of the infamous Tektronix "edible solid ink" power-hogs (a 340 I think; wish I could scrounge up a few reasonably priced ink sticks for that one, hint hint!), the "professional" HP Deskjet 1200 and 1600 models. Also three thermo-transfer units for various print sizes (all made by Mitsubishi, I think, two of them large flat things close to 19" format, one smaller desktop unit), which while primary intended for video still printing, also have parallel in! terfaces, but with consumables prohibitively costly for any kind of operation). What I'm missing yet is a "real" daisywheel printer (I have both a Triumph-Adler and an IBM typewriter with bolt-on interface boards - not that I would mind having a Diablo terminal at some time too), any sort of High Speed Printer from the olden days (drum, chain, belt, shuttle, or single-line needle) or truly esoteric stuff like the (DataProducts) hydraulic driven needle printer our local university collection has. Happy printing, guys! So long, Arno

13 years, 4 months

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My NEC PC-8201a on YouTube

by terry＠webweavers.co.nz

Another of my vintage computers on YouTube. This time that lesser known sibling of the TRS-80 Model 100, the NEC PC-8201a. http://youtu.be/d6z6nzzXlUQ It was the second computer I owned! Terry (Tez)

13 years, 4 months

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UNISYS line (band) printer FTGH

by n8uhn＠yahoo.com

No Worry's Arno, i list this printer once a year or so for the last two years. i will sit here, taken care of, till someone does get it (no scrappers!) the only reason i grabbed years ago it is because i like watching band printers in action and it has the centronics option and the standard unisys port. these days, when needing to keep text from a radio decoder or procomm, i save it digitally on the same pc that is running the app so no need to run reams of fanfold through a line printer. Bill >Let's hope it finds a good home anyway. I've still got an option on a >Centronics Linewriter LW800 band printer or a Siemens 9045 shuttle >printer which might become available locally and I should reserve my >space in case I need to rescue _that_. >So long, >Arno

13 years, 4 months

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UNISYS line (band) printer FTGH

by Arno_1983＠gmx.de

Bill Allen Jr <n8uhn at yahoo.com> wrote: > I have a dishwasher sized unisys 9246-7 line printer to give away (...) Sounds great, w/manuals, Centronics being pretty much universal and such. > the printer is located in Alpena MI 49707. Now that's the bad news, This Is America (and across a large body of water from my POV). I once succeeded in having some moderately large piece of equipment (two Aries Research tower machines, which are Sun clones, posted and given away by Sellam) hauled overseas, but that was only because I knew Hans Franke of VCF Europe fame, who had a whole container-load of stuff assembled for shipment over here back then. I don't suppose there is something similar going on at the moment, seeing the overall economic situation? Then I'm probably out of luck here. > with all the talk about printers and the person posting possible pick up > of old gear along his travels, i thought i's post this printer again - i > need the room :) Let's hope it finds a good home anyway. I've still got an option on a Centronics Linewriter LW800 band printer or a Siemens 9045 shuttle printer which might become available locally and I should reserve my space in case I need to rescue _that_. So long, Arno

13 years, 4 months

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RS-80 Model 200 memory

by fjkraan＠xs4all.nl

> Hi, > > I have recently received and repaired a TRS-80 Model 200 machine. Woot! > > My query is if anybody has any experience in adding extra memory - I note > that it has some sockets under it for memory expansion, but the recommended > devices are 24k (A ceramic carrier with 3 x 8K chips and some decoding - > Has anybody had experience using 62256 or similar parts? > The M200 reference manual has a diagram of the RAM module. It is just three 8kx8 RAMS and a 74LS138. So with a conversion socket, a 32kx8 RAM will probably work too. http://electrickery.xs4all.nl/comp/m200/doc/TRS-80_Model-200_reference-manu… This type of caramic devices was core business for Kyocera, which made the M100 line of computers. Fred Jan

13 years, 4 months

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Most favorite calc of all time was Re: Calculators

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

At this point I'd have to say my dearly departed HP 50G. Loved the look of my 2 semi or entirely dead 49G's. Hated using them though. At some point I really want a 48cx. At that point I'll probably consider my collection complete.

13 years, 4 months

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Slide Rules

by barythrin＠gmail.com

At the antique science and retro-tech show they have the international slide rule competition each year. Not sure if they're mostly collectors or daily users but seems an impressive feat these days. Given i think the competitors are mostly the same appropriate age as well. Be fun to see someone young come in.

13 years, 4 months

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Raspberry Pi

by c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com

Message: 25 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 09:45:17 -0700 From: ben <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Raspberry Pi Message-ID: <512F899D.2020803 at jetnet.ab.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 2/28/2013 9:19 AM, Liam Proven wrote: On 28 Feb 2013 15:07, "ben" <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> wrote: On 2/27/2013 5:34 PM, geneb wrote: On Wed, 27 Feb 2013, Tony Duell wrote: I don't know how that got sent half-done! Problaby becuase you are using some modern device.... Why don't you create a device with the equivalent (at least) abilities of the Raspberry Pi, but with your "enhancements" and sell it for $35. Until that happens, I suggest you sit down, shut up and quit being a cranky tonker. g. I disagree here. That is mass market prices. Yes, of course. That is the entire point of the exercise. How small & cheap can one make a reasonably modern computer that can surf the web and run modern graphical programming tools such as Scratch. The answer is, ?25 - and I think that is pretty impressive. I want a computer *Done* right. HP calculators ~ 1975 was the last computing device I have seen done right. What does that mean? Build quality doesn't really enter into it. It's a single, credit-card sized PCB. It has an under-specified processor & an over-specified graphics chip, but they are what was available cheaply from the day job of the designers. It's not as open as I'd like. But for the money, it is stunning. What would you have done differently? Bear in mind the price point. Equal or lower price only. What would you change? That "low price is best trend" I would change. For me a modern programing tool is "text editor" and 80x24 text screen on 15" display. Explain to me why a cheap PC in my home can't keep up to the net (windows 7) and a credit card computer can do better for surfing. Ben. "Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." Seymoure Cray ****************************************************************************************************** Past and the future of computing is forever changing as what we believe to be true of the past isn?t always right. Something comes along and revision is necessary. One more thing; I apologize for bringing Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past? but I have to add this: Is the Raspberry Pi something we want to experience? Can we teach kids how computers work today? Is there a need to do this! As far as I can determine they want them to work when they turn them on; not to know how they do something! Just do it! That?s their attitude and mass-marketers know this. Sorry about this rant. I?ll add this: No Internet; no multi-media may be what people want: A 1980?s computing technology where word processing, spreadsheet(ing) and database(ing) is just what many want! Here are three quotes that sum up my view: Pliny the Younger wrote: Historia quoquo modo scripta delectat. History, however it is written, always pleases(!). And paraphrasing Gotschke, the microcomputer was pre-determined, ?unfolded as by fate, as by a biological metamorphosis?. And finally, Ted Nelson, of Computer Lib fame, writes: ?The strange thing is that all of this took so long(development of the personal computer) and then happened so suddenly.? Murray--

13 years, 4 months

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Most favorite calc of all time was Re: Calculators

by wlewisiii＠gmail.com

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 12:00 PM, <cctalk-request at classiccmp.org> wrote: > From: Ian King <IanK at vulcan.com> > Recently, I bought another 48SX for my middle-school-age daughter. She > loves freaking out her fellow students - and the teachers - with her RPN > skills. That's MY little girl! - Ian Heh. And tying this back to another recent thread, my 11yo son has been watching with fascination as I relearn how to use my slide rule (a rather abused Pickett N600-ES). I'm hoping to have him using it too before long. That would surprise a few teachers I think ;) William -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. Alex White

13 years, 4 months

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A note about classic computing

by c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com

I forgot to say from Murray--

13 years, 4 months

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Looking for Research Machines 380Z/480Z disk images

by ats＠offog.org

Hi all, Iain Hancock has asked me to pass the following message on to the list: > Hi > > Myself and a few others are collating disks, disk images and programs > for the Research Machines 380z. It's a CP/M machine that was widely > used in UK schools in the early 80's just before the BBC micro was > launched. It provided the first use many British schoolkids had of > micro's and computer programming, and along with it's software played > a very important part in the 1980's uk computer revolution. > > Anyway, there were a surprising number of specific educational and > games programs written for it (and hundreds of games written on it by > schoolkids, inc me ) that are in danger of disappearing with the > dreaded disk-rot. Hence we are trying to locate any Research Machines > disks we can, before it's too late > > Presently we have imaged & extracted about 50 disks worth; they will > go on the yahoo 380z group and an archive site we're setting up, > www.rml380z.org > > Please does anyone here have any 380z (or 480z) disks you might have > picked up along the way? > > We've been imaging them to IMD's and using the normal tools to > extract. Have a script to extract individual files and provide dir > listings so we'll get them up on the site in no time. If anyone can > share images they've done please let me know, or we can make images > here and return disks to you... > > cheers! > > Iain, UK > > PS if anyone can find a copy of an rml basic program "ace invaders", > extra points will be awarded :-) I've dug out a bunch of RM floppies from my collection, and there were a few in Don Maslin's archive that I've also passed on to Iain. We've imaged floppies in these formats (cpmtools diskdefs file) so far: http://offog.org/stuff/rm/rm-diskdefs ... but there are also some RM 8" formats defined in the manuals, which we've not found any examples of yet. It appears that RM used 0x28 as the first byte in their CP/M serial numbers. Thanks, -- Adam Sampson <ats at offog.org> <http://offog.org/>

13 years, 4 months

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UNISYS line (band) printer free to good home or collector

by n8uhn＠yahoo.com

I have a dishwasher sized unisys 9246-7 line printer to give away. comes with 5 ribbons,manuals and centronics option. works great and has a clean type band. the only thing i don't have is the punched paper tape loop for the line spacing/form spacing reader. the printer is located in Alpena MI 49707. with all the talk about printers and the person posting possible pick up of old gear along his travels, i thought i's post this printer again - i need the room :) Bill

13 years, 4 months

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TRS-80 Model 200 memory

by doug＠doughq.com

Hi, I have recently received and repaired a TRS-80 Model 200 machine. Woot! My query is if anybody has any experience in adding extra memory - I note that it has some sockets under it for memory expansion, but the recommended devices are 24k (A ceramic carrier with 3 x 8K chips and some decoding - Has anybody had experience using 62256 or similar parts? -- Doug Jackson VK1ZDJ http://www.dougswordclock.com/ -< My clocks http://www.vk1zdj.net -< My Amature Radio Activities

13 years, 4 months

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Anti-Virus

by rickb＠bensene.com

No, in fact it was Outlook's wonderfully helpful address auto-complete feature, along with me being in a hurry and not verifying the address list before hitting send. -----Original Message----- From: Jules Richardson [jules.richardson99 at gmail.com] Received: Monday, 04 Mar 2013, 12:54pm To: cctalk at classiccmp.org [cctalk at classiccmp.org] Subject: Re: Anti-Virus On 03/04/2013 10:35 AM, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Mon, 4 Mar 2013, Rick Bensene wrote: >> My apologies for the misdirected email to the list. >> Rick Bensene > > But, unlike college administrators, > there was no attempt to blame the error on "a virus" Well, it was obviously a network misconfiguration :-)

13 years, 4 months

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BS about "changes in cost of cheapest machines" (Was: Raspberry

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 5:57 PM PST Fred Cisin wrote: >It's ZX80 time. >You CAN do wondrous things. >Or, you can bemoan the "need" for fancier crap. > >WHY can't they just say, "it's FUN! and you can cobble together the rest >of what you need to make it usable from the crap that is lying around" >And THAT is fun, too! Because it's ideological. Because it's the great great grandson of Acorn (I want one), it can't just be fun. It *has* to be wondrous, sliced cheese, the missing link, the Teseract. It *has* to be the life giving manna distributed by angels. All dat. Give him some credit though. He kind of summed it up appropriately - OLPC. STAMP, Arduino, TI Launchpad, Rpi, ... next. It is a learning tool. It is fun. It may even be awfully useful. It just ain't all dat.

13 years, 4 months

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Commodore calculators was RE: Calculators

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 1:50 PM PST Josh Dersch wrote: >On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > >> > > That's what a mailing list is for Josh. To ask questions and get >> information. >> > >> > No, you logorrheic moron, it's for asking questions you can't find the >> > answer to with a two second Google search. >> >> >> I shall remembr this next time somebody asks a hardware quesiton on >> PDP8s, PDP11s, PERQs, HP9800s, etc. The scheamtics are on bitsavers or >> wherever, and that's all you need to find the problem... >> > >Yes, Tony. Asking a question or looking for advice about specific >hardware behavior after doing a fair amount of research on my own is >-clearly- the same thing as asking a question answered by just entering the >search term into Google. Thanks for clearing that up. > >- Josh O man. You see Joshy you touched on a nerve. Stomped on one even. Tony's been accused of the same thing. Perhaps for entirely different reasons. But Tony is as logarithmic as I am.

13 years, 4 months

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Commodore calculators was RE: Calculators

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 4:27 PM PST Liam Proven wrote: >On 3 March 2013 23:55, Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> wrote: >> On 3/3/2013 3:38 PM, Chris Tofu wrote: >>> >>> Doofis butt nugget. >>> >>> >>> What, are you twelve years old? >> >> 12 + 34. If it's any of you cotton picking business. >> >> Act like it. > >He's not smart enough to. I've had the misfortune to have had him >pester me privately by email. He can't spell, can't quote and has both >poor interpersonal skills and very poor manners. He believes a load of >superstitious nonsense and pesters people in private to try to infect >them with his mental dross. It is my considered opinion that he is >both of low intelligence and is not a very pleasant human being. > >I have him killfiled by means of a mark-all-read rule in Gmail, which >at least doesn't break up threads like deleting his messages would. >Sadly the Gmail UI means I see his messages if they are the last in >the thread - and he does like to try to get the last word. Still, it's >better than nothing. > >I recommend doing similar. I have bad manners? You obviously are an obsessed, mentally oppressed, disturbed individual. You can't quit telling people how badly you want then to ignore me. This is approximately the 3rd time. See a therapist. >-- >Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile >Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven >MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven >Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 >

13 years, 4 months

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Raspberry Pi

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 4:16 PM PST Liam Proven wrote: >The CBM C64, the various Ataris and all the other successful home >computers were really pure games machines, with fancy graphics, stereo >sound, built-in joystick ports and so on. You've stated the pi is only a real use-ful computer because of it's ability to get on the net. But most bandwidth these days is used for rubbish. So what what exactly is wrong with the gaming aspects of the earliest, cheap home machines??? I purchased my first C64 AFTER buying my first (real) compatible. >The only /serious/ 1980s home computers - the ones /not/ mainly used >for games, that were also used for education, from primary >schoolchildren up to extensive use in universities, was the BBC Micro >family. Many an honors student would have loved to get their hands on a "game" computer in the 80s. I don't recall too many people that even had one. Most of us who had jobs bought one after hs. Admittedly something more capable. But I doubt 30,000,000 C64s would have sold if it was a boring brick.

13 years, 4 months

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Commodore calculators was RE: Calculators

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

---------------------------- On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 2:59 PM PST Josh Dersch wrote: >On 3/3/2013 11:29 AM, Chris Tofu wrote: >> >> ------------------------------ >> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 10:57 AM PST Josh Dersch wrote: >> >> On 3/3/2013 10:26 AM, Chris Tofu wrote: >>> Did Commie make only one? >> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=commodore+calculators >> >> Hope that helps! >> - Josh >> That's what a mailing list is for Josh. To ask questions and get information. > >No, you logorrheic moron, it's for asking questions you can't find the >answer to with a two second Google search. It's more fun to ask. An apparently fun for at least a few to answer. All you do is complain and respond with utterly ridiculous answers. >> Doofis butt nugget. >> >> > >What, are you twelve years old? 12 + 34. If it's any of you cotton picking business. >Josh

13 years, 4 months

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3/9/13 19th Annual Antique Science & Retro-Tech show & swap meet this weekend

by barythrin＠gmail.com

Heads up for folks in the DFW area. Nice show full of vintage and antique scientific equipment. Been there quite a few times and always interesting stuff on the tables for sale. ANTIQUE SCIENCE & RETRO-TECH SHOW & SWAP MEET<http://www.slideruleguy.com/tx-1q13.htm>is this coming weekend in Irving, TX. DFW Airport Hotel 972-399-1010 4440 W. Airport Freeway (Hwy 183) Irving, TX exit Valley View Lane 10:00 am to 4:00 pm $5.00 ADMISSION

13 years, 4 months

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Slide Rules

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 3:01 PM PST Fred Cisin wrote: >> > Iwould also avoid 'lubricating' it with isocyano acrylic >> >hydro-copolymerising adhesive... >On Mon, 4 Mar 2013, Chris Tofu wrote: >> Oh I have to disagree there. Dip it in that crap then lay it on the >> desk. I guarantee it'll never get stolen. > >Keep your hand on it until the glue has set. But then I get stolen. But there goes that logoerria again. Fred started it. > >

13 years, 4 months

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Slide Rules

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 2:49 PM PST Fred Cisin wrote: >> > Iwould also avoid 'lubricating' it with isocyano acrylic >> >hydro-copolymerising adhesive... > >On Mon, 4 Mar 2013, Chris Tofu wrote: >> Oh I have to disagree there. Dip it in that crap then lay it on the >> desk. I guarantee it'll never get stolen. > >around here, that's a way to lose a desk. Defeats the purpose of stealing a slide rule though. Wouldn't it make more sense to take the desk w/o the funky contraption stuck to it? You in Oakland Fred?

13 years, 4 months

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Commodore calculators was RE: Calculators

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

>> Shout out to all the other Logarithmic Morons out there! > >No, he did mean "logorrheic". >http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=logorrheic look who's logorrheiing

13 years, 4 months

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Slide Rules

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 12:41 PM PST Tony Duell wrote: >> >> On 03/03/2013 01:21 PM, dwight elvey wrote: >> > Never take your Picket slide rule to the beach!Dwight >> >> ...and never lube your Versalog with cornstarch. On a humid day, it can >> slow down calculation considerably. > > Iwould also avoid 'lubricating' it with isocyano acrylic >hydro-copolymerising adhesive... >-tony Oh I have to disagree there. Dip it in that crap then lay it on the desk. I guarantee it'll never get stolen.

13 years, 4 months

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Commodore calculators was RE: Calculators

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 12:43 PM PST Tony Duell wrote: >> > That's what a mailing list is for Josh. To ask questions and get information. >> >> No, you logorrheic moron, it's for asking questions you can't find the >> answer to with a two second Google search. > > >I shall remembr this next time somebody asks a hardware quesiton on >PDP8s, PDP11s, PERQs, HP9800s, etc. The scheamtics are on bitsavers or >wherever, and that's all you need to find the problem... Maybe he meant logarithmic moron. That's an honest mistake (for those who work, though I use the term loosely, at MalGrowthLoft) and much less insulting. I think. Maybe it's a complement even. Shout out to all the other Logarithmic Morons out there! >-tony

13 years, 4 months

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Most favorite calc of all time was Re: Calculators

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 12:24 PM PST Tony Duell wrote: >I bougth the first HP49G I saw. The documentation was non-existant, and >it was ridiculously buggy (to the extent that some advertised features >did nto exist, others werr unusable). After a few firmware upgrades >(and HP made this deliberately difficult if you didn't run a proprietory >OS), it was useable, but never really pleasant. I still use it, simply >because of the vast range of useful fucntions but... The question is though why so many people got duped into buying an "updated" model, with the same chip running at the same speed. Other then that it's appearance bloody rocked. 2.5 megs of memory. Endlessly clearing it's stack though. >> At some point I really want a 48cx. At that point I'll probably >> consider my collection complete. > >Waht is a 48CX? I know what a 41CX is -- I have a couple. I know what a >48SX is (I boguth the first one I saw...) and a 48GX (I was given one). >All of the mre nice machines. I meant 41CX. Everybody loves the 48G series I'm sure. But so slow... But with thw G,G+,GX at least, you don't get duped. I used to have a G and.GX. 49G had lots more memory though. Maybe I'll just buy another 50g and be happy... >-tony

13 years, 4 months

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Commodore calculators was RE: Calculators

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 10:57 AM PST Josh Dersch wrote: >On 3/3/2013 10:26 AM, Chris Tofu wrote: >> Did Commie make only one? > >http://lmgtfy.com/?q=commodore+calculators > >Hope that helps! >- Josh That's what a mailing list is for Josh. To ask questions and get information. Otherwise we'd just log in every morning and greet each other. Doofis butt nugget.

13 years, 4 months

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Note about classic computing

by c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com

Whether one is a hardware and/or software person is preserving old computers and ways of computing something that should be pursued? Is it a worthwhile exercise, having an intrinsic value or not, that should consume our valuable time? As one who enjoys working with old technology(Coleco ADAM) my answer is a resounding yes. What I get out of it ties me to the past which I cherish and makes today's computing experience much more satisfactory. And as one writer put it: ?I borrowed a friend?s Blackberry after my iPhone died: Basic capabilities are now five million times more difficult.? Maybe Backberry, aka RIM, should make using technology easier. How innovative! Should this not be technology's goal? Preserving old computers is a goal of mine and as Lyndel Prott puts it: A cultural heritage represents their(a people's) history, their community, and their own identity. Preservation is sought, not for the sake of the objects, but for the sake of the people for whom they have a meaningful life.? Is this not what classiccmp.org is all about? I think so.

13 years, 4 months

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Anti-Virus

by rickb＠bensene.com

My apologies for the misdirected email to the list. Rick Bensene -----Original Message----- From: Rick Bensene [rickb at bensene.com] Received: Monday, 04 Mar 2013, 7:57am To: ralph at ppmfg.com [ralph at ppmfg.com]; cctalk at classiccmp.org [cctalk at classiccmp.org]; stan at ppmfg.com [stan at ppmfg.com]; gloria at ppmfg.com [gloria at ppmfg.com]; kathy at ppmfg.com [kathy at ppmfg.com] Subject: Anti-Virus Good morning, Good progress was made yesterday with the Anti-Virus. The Windows 2003 server software was reloaded in "repair" mode on the server. Then the new server-side anti-virus was successfully installed and is running properly. All files on the server are now properly protected. The Email anti-spam and anti-virus was also updated successfully. The only thing that remains is to push the new version of the anti-virus software to the desktop computers. That is something that I'll be working on this evening. Please still remain vigilant about websites and Email until the workstation software can be updated on each of your computers. The risk is greatly reduced with the Email anti-virus running, as well as the anti-virus running on the server, but there still exists some risk of a desktop computer getting infected, so please be careful. I expect that I should have the new version rolled out to the desktop computers this evening. Thank you, -Rick B.

13 years, 4 months

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Slide Rules

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

------------------------------ On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 11:41 AM PST Dave McGuire wrote: > > I graduated from high school in 1987. Nobody had ever heard of a >slide rule by that time. They seem to have faded very quickly. I graduated in 85. I had one. Never said I did anything with it... I may have learned the very mostest basic function at one point. Couldn't tell you what it was though.

13 years, 4 months

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