- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by kylevowen＠gmail.com

I am noticing something odd in SimH when sending a 0377 (all ones) character. It seems to be duplicating the byte. I haven't read anything regarding this behavior. I'm away from my hardware PDP-8 at the moment, so I can't confirm that this is not the behavior that I would experience on the real thing. Here's how I reproduced it: test.pal: *200 CLA OSR JMS SEND JMP 200 SEND, 0 6416 6411 JMP .-1 CLA JMP I SEND $ pdp8.ini: at ttix 2222 set ttox0 8b load test.bin br 200 d sr 0377 Run 'nc localhost 2222 | od -to1' in a terminal, then 'go 200' and repeatedly press 'c', seeing how many times it takes to generate a line of characters in 'od'. Then, 'd sr 0376' and confirm that it takes twice as many presses, indicating half as many characters being sent per TLS instruction with the latter. Can anyone else confirm this for me? Thanks, Kyle

11 years, 5 months

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SimH PDP-8 ttox device help

by kylevowen＠gmail.com

I've been attempting to interface with SimH in the least invasive way possible, by connecting two programs together via a pseudo-TTY created by socat connected to one of the telnet ports of a TTIX device. Something like this: TTIX -> telnet port -> socat -> /dev/ttyPDP (pty) This works fine for the console port. I personally like having minicom pulled up for the serial terminal but keep the other window cluttered with SimH backend commands. I have been able to manipulate EDIT.SV with a simple C program to transfer text files, character by character, which is neat. I wanted to extend this to a VC8-E emulator, again in the simplest way possible. I am sending out the X- and Y-coordinates for the point over TTOX0, but seem to be encountering some problems. I noticed that it likes to get hung up on a TSF (6411) instruction, causing it to keep looping even in single-step mode! Assuming everything is buffered, I would be under the assumption that TSF would almost always skip with a successful device send. [...] Step expired, PC: 00313 (IOT 411) \ a lot more of these (~50) Step expired, PC: 00314 (JMP 313) / Step expired, PC: 00313 (IOT 411) Step expired, PC: 00314 (JMP 313) Step expired, PC: 00313 (IOT 411) Step expired, PC: 00314 (JMP 313) Step expired, PC: 00313 (IOT 411) Step expired, PC: 00315 (IOT 416) <- finally skips! By the way, I am initializing the device with a CLA; TLS (6416) at the beginning of the program. I noticed David Gesswein opened up a somewhat related issue, now marked as closed, in October 2013. https://github.com/simh/simh/issues/85 Once I'm back to the real hardware, I intend to try it there to verify. I am running V3.9-0, by the way. Any insight into what might be holding TSF up would be much appreciated. Thanks, Kyle

11 years, 5 months

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MEM11 Status Update

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Henk Gooijen > but RP11 will never be possible, isn't that MASSBUSS!? Maybe you're thinking of the RH70, the MASSBUS <-> PDP-11/70 memory bus interface? But there was also the RH11, a MASSBUS <-> UNIBUS interface, which supported all the same devices (RP04-6, etc) as the RH70, but plugged into a UNIBUS. (The two were programming-wise almost identical, the RH70 had an extra register for the extended memory address bits, plus a 'CSR3'.) But I was speaking of the RP11, a UNIBUS interface for the RP03 (different beast from the RH11, although very similar). Noel

11 years, 5 months

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IMSAI PCS-80/15

by spereira1952＠comcast.net

Hello from a lurker here, I am looking for a pointer to where I might be able to obtain the assembly / reference / user manual for the IMSAI PCS-80/15. Printed form or electronic copy, either way will be fine with me. Thanks very much, in advance, for your attention, and, hopefully, positive response! smp - - - Stephen Pereira Bedford, NH 03110 KB1SXE

11 years, 5 months

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Maxtor XT-2190

by djg＠pdp8online.com

Someone was using my MFM reader to read a Maxtor XT-2190 and was having problems. From the looks of it the heads are out of alignment. Does anyone know if this drive has a microstep mode like some Seagates have? I didn't find any mention in the manuals I could find. Some heads are mostly unreadable, some heads are mostly ok and some were unreadable on cylinder 0 and on other cylinders the header says they are one cylinder less than where it stepped to. Some of the other heads headers said the cylinder is what was expected.

11 years, 5 months

5
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MEM11 Status Update

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Guy Sotomayor > a multi-function Unibus board that contains all of the more difficult > items to allow a PDP-11/20 to run Unix V1 entirely within the CPU > chassis. Other than the CPU and the RK11-D controller, everything else > will be on the MEM11 board. > ... > What's on the board is the following: > ... > RF11 controller with non-volatile memory emulating 8 RS11 drives What form is the NVM in - an SD card, or just a chip, or what? I assume it's flash memory of some kind? (What's the limit on the number of write cycles with current flash memory, I wonder...) BTW, a removable card would be great - that would provide a way to get bits into the machine, other than loading them all in over a serial line. I'm kind of curious about your decision to only have an RF11, given the capacity of contemporary flash memory chips/cards. Why not an RK11 too? (You may have plenty of RK controllers/drives, but some of the rest of us aren't so lucky... :-) Is there not enough room in the 16K code block to do that too? And how about an RP11 too, for those of us running these cards in later PDP-11's? :-) (Oh, speaking of the 16K limit - any way to increase the size? Probably not without munging the J1 architecture, I would guess - I need to go grab it and read it. But limited addresses spaces always turn out to bit you where it hurts... :-) > As I was competing the configuration UI, I found that I couldn't have > both the configuration UI and the emulation code both fit in 16K > (strings take up a lot of space). I seem to recall this problem from my days of writing packet switches for PDP-11's... :-) The code was famous for log messages that left out all the vowels, to save space.. :-) Please, make the UI as cryptic as needed to make all the features (e.g. more disk controllers :-) fit - documentation can explain what all the cryptic names are. (Or perhaps even a front-end running on a PC which is connected to the MEM11 over the serial line.) Don't take any of this to mean I don't think this is really, really neat, and very impressive - it's both! Needless (perhaps) to say, I'll be buying a stack of these when they are ready! :-) Noel

11 years, 5 months

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Operating systems of the 1970s handling dates beyond the year 2000

by cubexyz＠gmail.com

After trying to get Unix v5 to understand dates beyond the year 2000 I had to wonder if any of the older operating systems from the 1970s or older could do this. So, did any operating system programmers from this time period have the foresight to use 4 digits for the year? I just checked APL/360 and it seems that it does not. Mark L

11 years, 5 months

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MEM11 Status Update

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Jay West > My hope is to drop one of these boards in my 11/45. The only issue is > I'm afraid even though it will give the /45 maximum memory Well, there is that board (by Able?) that allowed a /45 to have up to 2MB of main memory. I know they exist[ed], we had one on our 11/45 at MIT 'BITD'. It didn't require any mods, it was a simple plugin - although my memory doesn't recall how the bus from the board to the memory worked, whether it used an over-the-back connector, or if the expansion board, and memory, plugged into a custom backplane (I have this vague memory that it could use Extended UNIBUS memory, a la 11/44, so maybe it was a custom backplane). I do recall that it had a whole separate set of mapping registers, to map the entire 'outbound' (from the CPU) UNIBUS to the larger memory, and also a UNIBUS map for the 'inbound' UNIBUS (from the devices) to map into the memory - i.e., it did not have access to the CPU mode/space signals, so it didn't have K/S/I PARs. One had to set up the mapping registers in the 11 as well. We used a static mapping where User I and D went to fixed chunks of address space in the 'outbound' UNIBUS, and the expansion MMU then mapped those chunks (variably) into the larger main memory. IIRC, we just changed the definition of the address of the User PAR registers (but kept the User PDRs), and the UNIBUS map registers (although maybe those were at the same locations as those in the 11/70), and then re-compiled the affected kernel modules. (The assembler startup required a bunch of changes, too.) I should have all that code on my backup tapes... That might not have supported I+D for K, S and I (since together they need 128KB*3 bytes, more than a complete UNIBUS address space), but it worked OK for the early Unix we were running. > I think I have too many pdp11 racks and it could be time to thin the > herd before too long. Or maybe I just need to get more space. Yah, > that's the ticket! Please put me on the list for an -11 stuff you get rid of... ;-) Noel

11 years, 5 months

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Data Products 2230 manual?

by hachti＠hachti.de

Hi folks, my Data Products 2230 drum printer recently stopped working. The trouble began a few years ago: Startup went wrong from time to time so that the printer control logic was stuck after power on. Repowering helped. But now it does not help anymore. I found the DP2230 service manual 2 on bitsavers. It contains the machine's schematics. That already helped me to trace the problem - a bit. It looks like the buffer/interface logic does mad stuff. At this point it gets quite difficult to understand the logic without any explanation. Does anyone have the service manual part ONE? I assume that this contains info about state machines, test points and procedures, explanations etc. A (probably pdf) copy of that manual would help me a lot. I would very much appreciate to get hold of it. Kind regards Philipp :-)

11 years, 5 months

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Shipping antique computers

by marc.verdiell＠gmail.com

Thank you Todd. Very useful info. Marc >From: Todd Goodman <tsg at bonedaddy.net> >Subject: Re: Shipping antique computers >Message-ID: <20150118203355.GG4901 at ns1.bonedaddy.net> >I've palletized and shipped computer stuff as well as pinball machines >as well as received both on pallets. >[...] >Just my experience with it. >Todd

11 years, 5 months

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IBM Mainframe/Peripherals on eBay...

by lbickley＠bickleywest.com

There's what looks to be a nice collection of IBM Mainframe goodies on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-IBM-Computer-Mainframe-Lot-with-2-printers-… or Item #161566683205 Local Pickup, Huntington, New York NOT my listing - just "stumbled" across it today Cheers, Lyle -- Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

11 years, 5 months

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Operating systems of the 1970s handling dates beyond the year 2000

by cctalk＠beyondthepale.ie

> >> After trying to get Unix v5 to understand dates beyond the year 2000 I >> had to wonder if any of the older operating systems from the 1970s or >> older could do this. >> >> So, did any operating system programmers from this time period have >> the foresight to use 4 digits for the year? I just checked APL/360 and >> it seems that it does not. >> > > TOPS-20? VMS? > It was very near the end of the 1970s but VMS made a really good effort to handle times and dates well from the beginning. A single 64 bit time format is used throughout the operating system and operating system routines are provided to manipulate it and convert to and from well chosen standardised display formats with no ambiguities such as two digit years or easily mixed up numbers for days and months. Everything [*] displays and accepts the same time and date formats and shortcuts such as YESTERDAY, TODAY and TOMORROW. No messing about trying to figure out what format a particular utility wants the date specified in and no wondering whether a unitless time displayed by something is days, hours or minutes. The areas where I think it could have been done better still are to have stored the time internally in UTC rather than local time while displaying local time and to have chosen an earlier base date than 17 November 1858. Also, there was originally a rule that time differences could not be larger than 10000 days which was poorly enforced and eventually had to be scrapped - this should have been handled much more gracefully. [*] A few system parameters are specified in seconds and TIMEPROMPTWAIT is specified in microfortnights with tongue in cheek. Regards, Peter Coghlan.

11 years, 5 months

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Operating systems of the 1970s handling dates beyond the year 2000

by johnwallace4＠yahoo.co.uk

"an *awesome* cover letter that DEC sent out with the fix, assuring everyone that the libraries were now good internally until some crazy year like 31078, but there was still formatting code that assumed years fit in four digits so there would be Y10K bugs; but don't worry, DEC will issue a patch to VMS at that time." Sounds a little bit like (but maybe not identical with?) the well known Stan Rabinowicz Leap Year Software Performance Report (SPR) response in 1983 for VMS V3.2? Stashed in various places which search engines should find, currently including HP's website and http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/susan/joke/decly.htm Have a lot of fun John

11 years, 5 months

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Operating systems of the 1970s handling dates beyond the year 2000

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Mark Longridge > I had to wonder if any of the older operating systems from the 1970s or > older could do this. > So, did any operating system programmers from this time period have > the foresight to use 4 digits for the year? It's probably worth distinguishing between the internal clock, the ability to set dates > 1999, the ability to print dates > 1999, etc. For instance, both Multics and Unix had an internal clock that ran correctly past the century end. (Although they do run out / roll over not too much later - in Multics' case, in 2039. For the Multics one, see here: http://www.multicians.org/jhs-clock.html for more.) However, in the case of Unix, both date setting and the canonical routine for date printing (separate code) didn't handle dates after 1999; for input, the year was only two digits, and for output, the first two digits were hard-coded to '19'. However, for calculating dates (which returned a vector of numbers), that part did theoretically work correctly for years after 1999 (it returned [$YEAR-1970]), but... There was a separate bug that caused the year calculation to fail in the closing months of 1999. Whether the person who wrote the code knew of the bug - it's a fairly simple one, an overflow of a short integer - I don't know, but it's possible they did, and on calculating when it would happen, decided that the fact that it would coincidentally also happen at century end meant it could be ignored at that point. However, once that was fixed, the date calcuation routine returned the correct year (without needing to change the interface). I don't know whether date input/calculation/output on Multics had similar issues: if you google "Multics leap year" it shows the source code for a couple of routines dealing with dates, but alas it's all in 645/6180 assembler, so I can't really grok it! It looks like it _might_ work, though (it seems to calculate the number of years since Multics' epoch - 1901 - and add that to 1901). If I had more time to expend, I could look at ITS too... :-( Noel

11 years, 5 months

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the old VHS series on the history of computing

by sales＠elecplus.com

http://waxy.org/2008/06/the_machine_that_changed_the_world/ He found all 5 episodes, digitized them, and uploaded them. Cindy Croxton

11 years, 5 months

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Sending 0377 via KL8JA

by cctalk＠beyondthepale.ie

> >I am noticing something odd in SimH when sending a 0377 (all ones) >character. It seems to be duplicating the byte. I haven't read anything >regarding this behavior. I'm away from my hardware PDP-8 at the moment, so >I can't confirm that this is not the behavior that I would experience on >the real thing. > It's not really that clear whether a telnet type connection is in use here but could it be something that does telnet negotiation is sending data to something which is not telnet negotiation aware? 0377 octal (FF hex) corresponds to IAC which would get sent as IAC IAC. Maybe monitoring the data on the network would confirm? > >Run 'nc localhost 2222 | od -to1' in a terminal, then 'go 200' and >repeatedly press 'c', seeing how many times it takes to generate a line of >characters in 'od'. Then, 'd sr 0376' and confirm that it takes twice as >many presses, indicating half as many characters being sent per TLS >instruction with the latter. > >Can anyone else confirm this for me? > Sorry - I don't follow that at all and figuring it out is probably above my pay grade :-) Regards, Peter Coghlan.

11 years, 5 months

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more documentation...

by useddec＠gmail.com

I just looking for offers + shipping. Please contact me off list for more info or questions. I told Al he could have whatever he wants for free and I would pay shipping. Al, I hate typing, please take it all... NCR 801-0009975 801-0009981 powertec inc for GDI 3m lups module crt Buscher 0l400-3015r/4015r fisher controls type cp250 model sps-1878a allen-bradley 635344 ps cdc 83322310 54359803, maybe others... computer products (unipower) pwr div 800w multiple sc001-1442 MISC PWR SUPPLIES: tryger electronics uaro lear siegler GE century data condor Thanks, Paul

11 years, 5 months

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TMS9918 (was Re: Seeking... TI TMS9902 ICs)

by spacewar＠gmail.com

On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 9:22 PM, Randy Dawson <rdawson16 at hotmail.com> wrote: > Later found their video chip 9918 Speaking of which, does anyone have the data sheet and/or user manual for the original TMS9918, *NOT* the improved 9918A? All my internet searches that turn up 9918 without an A suffix are in fact actually for the A part.

11 years, 5 months

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Mystery ICs - AB 36D1024

by drlegendre＠gmail.com

Can't search up any data on these chips, they're marked with the Allen Bradley logo, and the code is 36D1024. Date codes are mid-1974. I have about 30 pcs. of them. But what are they?

11 years, 5 months

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Shipping antique computers

by marc.verdiell＠gmail.com

Wow. Nice collection in a nice setting. I love the view of your commute. Where is your new shop located, still near Silicon Valley (near me ;-) )? Marc >Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 10:07:53 -0800 >From: Guy Sotomayor <ggs at shiresoft.com> >Here are some pictures of the stuff after I've moved it into my new shop but still on the pallets: >http://www.shiresoft.com/new-shop/Shiresoft/Almost_moved.html. > >TTFN - Guy

11 years, 5 months

2
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Recovering Win3.1 Data

by dj.taylor4＠verizon.net

In the mid-90's I had a Packard Bell computer that ran Windows for workgroups 3.11. The computer is long gone, but I saved the disk. It is a 420 MB Conner. I recently tried to recover the data by attaching it to one of those IDE/SATA to USB devices and read it under Windows7, didn't work. I am able to copy files to floppy, but the stuff I want to save won't fit on a floppy. I put the disk in an old PC and it will boot to DOS, it tries to start WIN3.1 but exits because of some missing sound card hardware. What is the path of least resistance here? Is linux any help?

11 years, 5 months

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VT100 Monitor Alignment Tool

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

The horizontal width on my VT101 needs adjusting, so I am in need of a monitor alignment tool (PN 29-23190-00). I have tried searching the web to see if I can found out what they look like so that I can improvise something but I have failed to find a picture of the DEC one. Does anyone have a picture of one? Is it just a long thin screwdriver? Is it the same as a generic monitor alignment tool like this one: http://eu.suzohapp.com/product/H92-0196-00/universal-monitor-alignment-tool- kit? Even so the picture on that site makes it hard for me to tell what I need to improvise something. Regards Rob PS The VT101 is partly working, I think the monitor control side is fine, but the terminal controller board seems to have problems, I only get random characters displayed when I power it up and it does not respond to any keys, not even SETUP L

11 years, 5 months

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Seeking... TI TMS9902 ICs

by scaron＠umich.edu

Hi all, I'm looking to pick up a few TI TMS9902 ICs... this is an asynchronous communications chip for TMS9900 based systems. I'm considering the architecture for my next retro-SBC as I get closer to wrapping up my 6502 SBC, so, trying to put all the pieces together. Willing to pay a fair price. Thanks! Sean

11 years, 5 months

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Bay Area: IBM 4341 and HP3000

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: js > as a frequent buyer, it also highly annoys me when systems on eBay or > Craiglist are found and rebroadcasted here. Now, my chance find has > been made aware to a much wider audience, the competition shoots way > up, and I have to pay more. Since I'm one of the people who has been doing this (e.g. recent PDP-8 postings), I'd like to weigh in with a few thoughts on this topic. To begin, as to the point that it's costing you more money, I'm afraid I don't find that a big factor, for several reasons. First, as Mark Tapley explained down-thread: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2015-January/002533.html >from the point of view of saving history, higher prices are better. If people start to think of these older machines as possibly collectable items of some value, they are less likely to toss them into the trash without further ado. (Yes, yes, I know, not all old computers are worth saving - just like not all old cars are, either. But unless you ask someone who knows, you don't know whether your old junker is a clunker or a jewel in the rough.) Second, you're only getting that item 'for cheap' because some other collector, to whom it might be even more emotionally important, doesn't know of it. I do have more sympathy with the point of view that says 'I spent a lot of time trawling through eBay, etc listings looking for that one diamond in a sea of pebbles; why should all my work be devalued by someone who just posts the listing so everyone can get on board?' I have some sympathy for that take (especially since I myself spend a fair amount of time looking through eBay for PDP-11 stuff :-), but for me it's out-weighed by the 'hey, I have this information, it's no use to me, I'd like to share it with people for whom it might be highly useful'. > Auctions are not collegial -- they're competitive, and since when is > competition a negative? I'm not sure of your point here (the second part seems to be at odds with the first), but I will say that I think widely-attended auctions, starting at a modest price, are desirable: they are the best way to set the _true_ value of something. Too many items on eBay have some incredibly high Buy-It-Now price, and they sit forever, until someone really desperate buys it - which just encourages other sellers to ask for un-realistic amounts. So I applaud the sellers who put things up for real auctions. Noel

11 years, 5 months

2
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Restoring a Compaq Portable

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

In my further adventures in restoring a Compaq Portable, I have these problems: 1) Missing brightness knob. Solution: I posted earlier about this. A few people in #classiccmp think they may have one. 2) Capacitive disks under the keys are rotten. Solution: http://www.retrotechnology.com/restore/sol_keys.html sounds good, except I'll use 3M 77 spray. 3) I can't get the keyboard to respond at all. I tried touching the capacitive pads with bare fingers, anti-static bag material, etc. Nothing works. Solution: I don't know. I suspect the scan driver and/or the sense amp chips may be bad. These are Exar 22-950-3B (sense driver) and 22-908-93A (sense amp). Does anyone here know a decent source of these and/or data sheets? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

11 years, 5 months

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FTGH: Pioneer DRM-602X 6-CD changer

by mouse＠Rodents-Montreal.ORG

I have this six-disc CD changer by Pioneer which I do not expect to have further use for - or, more precisely, the chance of future use is small enough I don't consider it worth the space it takes to store it. It's a SCSI device. I hooked it up and it showed up as six drives at ID 6, one at each LUN from 0 through 5, and accessing two of the drives gave me the contents of the two discs I put in the magazine, so it seems to work at least minimally. (IIRC there's a switch which controls the ID.) The box trumpets it as "THE ONLY SIX-DISC DOUBLE-SPEED CD-ROM CHANGER", which may give some idea of its age. Here's what autoconfig printed for it: probe(esp0:6:0): max sync rate 8.33Mb/s scsipi_inqmatch: 2/5/1 <, , > cd0 at scsibus0 targ 6 lun 0: <PIONEER, CD-ROM DRM-602X, 2902> SCSI2 5/cdrom removable scsipi_inqmatch: 2/5/1 <, , > cd1 at scsibus0 targ 6 lun 1: <PIONEER, CD-ROM DRM-602X, 2902> SCSI2 5/cdrom removable scsipi_inqmatch: 2/5/1 <, , > cd2 at scsibus0 targ 6 lun 2: <PIONEER, CD-ROM DRM-602X, 2902> SCSI2 5/cdrom removable scsipi_inqmatch: 2/5/1 <, , > cd3 at scsibus0 targ 6 lun 3: <PIONEER, CD-ROM DRM-602X, 2902> SCSI2 5/cdrom removable scsipi_inqmatch: 2/5/1 <, , > cd4 at scsibus0 targ 6 lun 4: <PIONEER, CD-ROM DRM-602X, 2902> SCSI2 5/cdrom removable scsipi_inqmatch: 2/5/1 <, , > cd5 at scsibus0 targ 6 lun 5: <PIONEER, CD-ROM DRM-602X, 2902> SCSI2 5/cdrom removable I have the box, interior packing foam, and one 6-disc magazine for it. I don't think I have anything else that may have come with it (maybe a rudimentary user's guide, not sure). The box has a sticker on it saying it includes a "PC SCSI Interface" and "SIX EXCITING CD-ROM TITLES"; none of those are actually present any longer. It's in /earth/northamerica/canada/ontario/ottawa. The box is moderately large, about 11 by 15 by 22 inches, and is somewhat beat-up (scuffs, small tears) but basically intact. Free to a good home. Pick-up preferred; I could probably wrap another layer of paper around this and ship it, but the bother factor is high enough it would take some persuading. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

11 years, 5 months

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Another VCF East update - Wes Clark

by evan＠snarc.net

There are still three months until VCF East (April 17-19), but we are charging toward it at full steam! What's going on at the show? - There will be 16 technical classes on Friday. - We're at 18 exhibits and counting (30-ish expected) - We have four very special events planned: 1. Restored Straight-8 debut (Friday lunchtime); 2. Ted Nelson lecture (Saturday morning); 3. Just announced: Wes Clark lecture (Saturday night dinner -- very limited tickets available); and 4. Bob Frankston lecture (Sunday morning).

11 years, 5 months

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Info about Scenic Computer Systems Corp. Model One

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Hi all -- Was given this machine today, it's a Scenic Comptuer Systems Corporation Model One. It's a 68000 based machine with a custom (I assume) 44-pin bus with two 8" dual-sided floppies and four serial ports. And it was built right here in Seattle, WA :). The serial number on the CPU board is 9, which makes me wonder how many of these were produced. I powered it up after giving it an examination and I get a boot monitor prompt out of it. I can't find much information at all on this machine, a brief writeup in an Infoworld magazine from '83 indicates that it was a UCSD Pascal machine, but that's about all I know. Anyone have any info on this thing? Better yet, anyone know of any surviving software? (Well, I can dream...) Thanks as always, Josh

11 years, 5 months

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HP 9836 Available in the Houston TX area

by nospam212-cctalk＠yahoo.com

Anyone here interested in an HP 9836? One of the keys is broken off but present. It boots up but reports some memory issue. I've had it for a long time but don't have the time nor interest any more to work with it. Heavy box so local pickup preferred but if you want to arrange and pay for shipping we can try. Located in Houston TX. David Williams www.trailingedge.com

11 years, 5 months

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Shipping antique computers

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Guy Sotomayor > http://www.shiresoft.com/new-shop/Shiresoft/Almost_moved.html Doesn't work (for me) as a deep link; I had to go through: http://www.shiresoft.com/new-shop/Shiresoft/New_Shop.html first. I have to say, you've probably made 99.9% of the list green with envy with those photos... :-) > I've shipped stuff with both "white glove" movers and just regular > freight companies. ... It all depends upon what you're moving and how > it's packed for shipping. If you don't have it packed/packaged, then > "white glove" is the way to go especially if it's just "big stuff". More importantly, I'm not sure the commercial people will _take_ stuff unless it's on a pallet. I originally tried to ship a group of DEC corporate cabinets (with stuff in them - ~400 lbs per) via non-white-glove people. (I didn't care if things got dinged a bit during shipping, and hey, it was on wheels, right? And although I didn't have a loading dock, they said they could send a lift-gate truck, and I was happy with kerb-side delivery.) Then they found out it wasn't on pallets, and they wouldn't take it; I then had to switch to a white-glove firm. And that's when I got the bad news - it cost twice as much, for the same volume/weight. (They send a team, not just one driver.) So white-glove has a major downside, IMO. Noel

11 years, 5 months

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Testing VT101 Power Supply

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I am looking to test the power supply board of my VT101 before connecting it all up and switching it on. Reading to the Pocket Service Manual it seems to suggest that you can check the outputs of the power supply board with the terminal controller board and the video monitor board both disconnected. This would mean no load on the power supply. Does this seem wise? Regards Rob

11 years, 5 months

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Shipping antique computers

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

So, I've recently shipped an antique computer across-country (in the USA), and for those who need to do this, I can point out the shipper (well, technically, a broker - they work with a range of companies who actually do the work) which/whom I used: Shiphawk 805-335-2432 http://shiphawk.com Having learned (with me :-) a number of lessons about the potholes and pitfalls of shipping antique computers, they should be pretty well up to speed if someone else needs to do some shipping of same. Key point: shipping of largish things is much cheaper if the item is palletized. There are two kinds of shippers: cargo/freight people (I forget the exact term), who only deal in palletized things, and so-called 'white glove' shippers, who will move anything (they usually do furniture, hence the name). I know palletization's not cheap, but you'll probably save more in shipping than you spend on the preparation. Noel

11 years, 5 months

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Diablo disk unit

by alexandre.tabajara＠gmail.com

Can anyone shed a light on this? http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-616158449-diablo-series-unidade-de-d… Thanks! Alexandre

11 years, 5 months

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Subject: Knowledge Base

by marc.verdiell＠gmail.com

> I'm in. But instead of repair/restoration logs, I'd like to also contribute > with specific knowledge which I believe to be more searcheable and a better > contribution than just logs. Maybe we could have both (logs and knowledge base)? They serve different purposes. In my other group we have a mail list, a wiki for basic knowledge and a build logs threads in a Forum based package. The build logs are searchable. It works really well. The least frequently contributed to is the wiki, however it's the most helpful for new members. But it's a lot of work and makes things more complicated. Just food for thoughts, as I said the current mailing list is simple yet immensely useful, nothing wrong with it. And God bless bitsavers.

11 years, 5 months

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Paper tape standard

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

I hadn't spotted this before, and it may be of interest to some here : http://www.polyomino.org.uk/computer/ECMA-10/ It's the ECMA standard for paper tape. -tony

11 years, 5 months

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Lanier Model 103 Word Processor

by phil＠viscom.net

All, Recently picked me up a new project ($0 projects are the best), a Lanier Model 103 word processing system, complete with printer, but void of any diskettes. I'm going to have a rummage around here at work, but it would appear that AES used hard-sectored 5.25" floppies in the machine. Apparently it'll boot the AES word processing suite, or alternatively CP/M (It's an 8080 based machine). Something had eaten(!) the ceramic suppression caps off the video card, so I replaced those and the tantalum beads for good measure. Now when I power it up I get a raster instead of a horizontal line. It's a bit stretched vertically, so I've got the video circuitry module out to redo the electrolytics in that next. Unfortunately none of the adjustments on the board are marked as to their function. I'm going to take a few guesses as to what's what, and experiment a little. I need to get me a hex tool for what I'm guessing is the width coil. There are 2 adjustable inductors and 4 variable resistors. A question- being as I currently do not have any discs for it, does anyone: 1) Know what this should display if you power it up without a floppy in? (If anything at all, would be useful to see if the thing even has a sane heartbeat in some fashion). 2) Have a service manual for one? 3) Know of a source of discs (either AES, copies, or even just CP/M)? I know 3 is a hugely long shot. It's not a badly built machine, and it would be nice to get repaired and be able to use it to write things on. --Phil

11 years, 5 months

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Convergent NGEN storage hardware manuals

by aek＠bitsavers.org

http://bitsavers.org/pdf/convergent/ngen/hardware uploaded yesterday This is the first time that I've come across any real hardware documentation on the NGEN. It's already helped the guy working on the simulation in MESS.

11 years, 5 months

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Updated Spacewar for the PDP-8/I, 8/E, etc....

by lbickley＠bickleywest.com

I just updated D.E. Wrege's Spacewar as follows: 1. Correctly supports slow monitors attached to a VC8/E interface by correcting mistakes made in the VC8/E driver code. The code now follows DEC's recommended method of waiting on the VC8/E. 2. Starts up with spaceships (as opposed to UFO's) per the original Spacewar! by Steve Russell. 3. Now supports the DK8-EC Crystal Clock Items 1 & 2 were released by me previously - but support for the DK8-EC is brand new. The new source and listing can be picked up via anonymous FTP to bickleywest.com and the pdp8_spcwar directory. Most browsers (not IE) will support this: ftp://bickleywest.com/pdp8_spcwar/ Cheers, Lyle -- Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

11 years, 5 months

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HP Interex

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I had posted to the list a while back that I had saved the HP/Interex and HP1000 CSL site before it went dark and put them up on the classiccmp server. Just got an email from the folks in the HP/DSD alumni group that they are enjoying that content being available again. That REALLY makes me feel good J WOOHOO! Along those lines, the copy of the Interex/CSL that I saved originally included not just the files, but also the html and jpg that made up the site itself. Over years, I lost the html and jpg files. Not a huge concern as the data files that the site served up are all present. But.. If anyone happens to have the .html, .jpg, etc files (and if it doesn't infringe) I'd be happy to add them back so it has the original "look & feel". J

11 years, 5 months

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Tabajara Labs working again

by alexandre.tabajara＠gmail.com

So, the site is back :) I'd like to Thank Jay West for the kind offer of space for my site. Saved my bacon! Hope you all can enjoy www.tabalabs.com.br - it is mostly in portuguese, but google translator is your friend, and the pics are nice :) Also, there are lots of brazilian hardware pictured there, for the curious Greetings from Brazil! Alexandre Souza --- Enviado do meu Apple IIGS (pq eu sou chique) Meu site: http://www.tabalabs.com.br Meu blog: http://tabajara-labs.blogspot.com

11 years, 5 months

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Paging Mouse@rodents-montreal

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Mouse; I've tried to send you an email off-list, but both of the mail server infrastructures here (one unix, one windows) can't seem to get through to your mail server. More to the point, I recall seeing a notice or two over time that the classiccmp mail server has trouble getting to you and disables your subscription automatically and I re-enable it any time I notice it. Can you email me a different email address for you that's on a different server perhaps? J

11 years, 5 months

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Subject: Knowledge Base

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Marc wrote.... ---- [snip] Thank you Jay and others for doing this and contributing a professional grade infrastructure. ---- Most welcome - but it's not just me. There's a lot of folks who help. ---- The wiki is an idea, but an alternative that I wish would exist is a repository for restoration logs. [snip] ---- The conversation makes things come back to me from old memory :) Now that I think about it - that was the primary "con" thought that most listmembers had about a "wiki". It basically competed with the mailing list as a resource and many of the folks here weren't going to go "graphical" so it would just result in a fracture/fork and dilution of the community. As a result, we went with a "Knowledge Base" package for pretty much the exact reasons you list in your post. The one we had used was "Andy's PHP Knowledge Base". I would be happy to try it again if listmembers would agree to substantially contribute. The only thing worse than not having one is having one that doesn't really have great content (and I'm positive the listmembers have great content to contribute). The only criteria I'd have from my side is that it be php/mysql based. We do have a flock of windows servers in the infrastructure, but I'd prefer if it was FAMP based. I haven't seen where the development of Andy's package has gone over the years, so I'd appreciate any suggestions folks may have as to a good php/mysql knowledge base type of package. I personally like the idea of a knowledgebase, but as Marc says - it'd be nice to have a place for people to post their restoration logs. Many people do this on their own sites and it's a great thing but I'm sure many people (me included) generally don't have the time to create an entire site to post the progress of each restoration project. Maybe if something in this site would allow easy subsection creation ("John Smiths PDP7 restoration project") that could be of help to both restorers and interested people wanting to learn. There is a site for people restoring/customizing Jon boats that I've spent a lot of time on where each person can create their own section documenting their restoration project. That type of thing would be a great resource here in addition to a "knowledge base". Let me know if there's interest. Thoughts? J

11 years, 5 months

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SimH Help, was Re: Announcing TCP/IP for RSX-11M-PLUS

by kylevowen＠gmail.com

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 9:47 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: > There have been lots of positive comments, and obviously some people have > even tested using the software. > I shall echo the sentiments of others; thanks for releasing this! So - same as before. Disk image and tape image are available at > Madame.Update.UU.SE. Use anonymous ftp. > Disk image is also available at ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/pdp11/rsx/tcpip > . > The disk image is a virtual RL02 disk. Can be used with any emulator, or > also directly inside RSX if you have virtual devices available. Johnny, you mentioned you're running under E11. Has anyone tried it under SimH yet? I put together an 11/70 1MB system under the PDP-11 emulator (built with Ethernet support under OS X 10.9) and have installed RSX-11M-PLUS 4.6. When I was installing, SYSGEN reported 512k of RAM instead of 1M, which alarmed me. I went into manual mode and told it explicitly 1M. That's been my only hiccup so far, and that's about where I'm at. If anyone has any suggestions for a newcomer to RSX, I'd certainly appreciate it. I'd be more than willing to write up a tutorial if someone can help me the rest of the way. Thanks, Kyle

11 years, 5 months

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Restoration Best Practice RE: Subject: Knowledge Base (was RE: Restoration technique [Was: Re: Bay Area: IBM 4341 and HP3000]

by dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com

I try and blog my restorations here:- http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/blog.php?18268-g4ugm but I often forget. Actually recording what you have done is really important and is often forgotten or over looked. The last thing you want to do when you wife drags you away from the home workshop is write up what you have done mot it is really important. I also try and change things in a reversible manner. If I replace capacitors I keep and record where they came from. I don't suppose this will ever be of interest to any one else, but it might be... Dave G4UGM -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Marc Verdiell Sent: 16 January 2015 09:02 To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Subject: Knowledge Base (was RE: Restoration technique [Was: Re: Bay Area: IBM 4341 and HP3000] I am relatively new here but joining this mailing list has helped me almost immediately. Thank you Jay and others for doing this and contributing a professional grade infrastructure. The wiki is an idea, but an alternative that I wish would exist is a repository for restoration logs. Something that you could follow and comment on, and that allows attachment of slightly richer media to posts (photos, docs) in the context of someone's specific restoration project. You learn so much from these. I know people already do it individually, but not in a centralized searchable place (you have to chance upon them), and often in an annoying reverse chronology "blog" format that's ill adapted for this usage. Or a museum style static website that does not relate the problem solving path (including things that fail) that a restoration is. In other "build oriented" groups I belong to, we do this very successfully by encouraging individual build log threads in a Forum format. That's in addition to a catch-all "string of consciousness" mailing list like this one. Is that anything that could be considered? Marc > Message: 21 > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 14:42:34 -0600 > From: "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Knowledge Base (was RE: Restoration technique [Was: Re: Bay > Area: IBM 4341 and HP3000] > Message-ID: <004a01d0303a$a11eefa0$e35ccee0$(a)classiccmp.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > So.. about this "knowledgebase" of restoration techniques. > > Apparently new folks don't know and some older listmembers don't remember... > > We did start a "wiki" for people to post restoration tips, repair tips, etc. > This was done about 8 years ago. When I first brought up the idea > there was a lot of discussion on the list as to if it was a good idea > or not. Many people had very good thoughts as to why it would be > wonderful, and many other people had equally good thoughts as to why it would not be wonderful. > > In any case, I set it up. We found that there was an initial flurry of > posting, and then virtually nothing. Statistics showed it was not used > very much at all. There were a handful of issues as I recall (not my > implementation of it, but in the general idea of a > repair/troubleshooting/restoration "wiki"). I only remember one of > them at the moment... and that was that someone would post an article > without really having detailed expertise in that given area and then > someone that DID have expertise in that area would (for lack of a > better term) contramand that article or write a separate one with > conflicting info which made it hard for a novice to really sift > through the information. In short, everyone has an opinion and at > times the articles directly conflicted with another and someone seeking knowledge wouldn't know who to believe. > > That being said, if people really want to give this another try, I > would be happy to turn on the old classiccmp knowledge base (I'm 99% > sure it's stored but just not turned on), or I could easily have one > of my support staff dump a wiki installation to a folder there (under > classiccmp) and we could give it a try again. I'm all for it, but for > it to be successful - it has to be due to contribution/acceptance by > the membership at large. My proclivity at this point would be to > install a new wiki and then pull articles already posted in the old "wiki" into it. > > And yes, if it's to be in the classiccmp.org domain, I'd have to host > it. I have not yet seen a scenario where we'd be willing to point an > a-record off-site (but that's not to say some future situation might > get a different response). > > Best, > J

11 years, 5 months

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Subject: Knowledge Base (was RE: Restoration technique [Was: Re: Bay Area: IBM 4341 and HP3000]

by marc.verdiell＠gmail.com

I am relatively new here but joining this mailing list has helped me almost immediately. Thank you Jay and others for doing this and contributing a professional grade infrastructure. The wiki is an idea, but an alternative that I wish would exist is a repository for restoration logs. Something that you could follow and comment on, and that allows attachment of slightly richer media to posts (photos, docs) in the context of someone's specific restoration project. You learn so much from these. I know people already do it individually, but not in a centralized searchable place (you have to chance upon them), and often in an annoying reverse chronology "blog" format that's ill adapted for this usage. Or a museum style static website that does not relate the problem solving path (including things that fail) that a restoration is. In other "build oriented" groups I belong to, we do this very successfully by encouraging individual build log threads in a Forum format. That's in addition to a catch-all "string of consciousness" mailing list like this one. Is that anything that could be considered? Marc > Message: 21 > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 14:42:34 -0600 > From: "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Knowledge Base (was RE: Restoration technique [Was: Re: Bay > Area: IBM 4341 and HP3000] > Message-ID: <004a01d0303a$a11eefa0$e35ccee0$(a)classiccmp.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > So.. about this "knowledgebase" of restoration techniques. > > Apparently new folks don't know and some older listmembers don't remember... > > We did start a "wiki" for people to post restoration tips, repair tips, etc. > This was done about 8 years ago. When I first brought up the idea there was > a lot of discussion on the list as to if it was a good idea or not. Many > people had very good thoughts as to why it would be wonderful, and many > other people had equally good thoughts as to why it would not be wonderful. > > In any case, I set it up. We found that there was an initial flurry of > posting, and then virtually nothing. Statistics showed it was not used very > much at all. There were a handful of issues as I recall (not my > implementation of it, but in the general idea of a > repair/troubleshooting/restoration "wiki"). I only remember one of them at > the moment... and that was that someone would post an article without really > having detailed expertise in that given area and then someone that DID have > expertise in that area would (for lack of a better term) contramand that > article or write a separate one with conflicting info which made it hard for > a novice to really sift through the information. In short, everyone has an > opinion and at times the articles directly conflicted with another and > someone seeking knowledge wouldn't know who to believe. > > That being said, if people really want to give this another try, I would be > happy to turn on the old classiccmp knowledge base (I'm 99% sure it's stored > but just not turned on), or I could easily have one of my support staff dump > a wiki installation to a folder there (under classiccmp) and we could give > it a try again. I'm all for it, but for it to be successful - it has to be > due to contribution/acceptance by the membership at large. My proclivity at > this point would be to install a new wiki and then pull articles already > posted in the old "wiki" into it. > > And yes, if it's to be in the classiccmp.org domain, I'd have to host it. I > have not yet seen a scenario where we'd be willing to point an a-record > off-site (but that's not to say some future situation might get a different > response). > > Best, > J

11 years, 5 months

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Netware/IP 1.1

by BHuntsman＠mail2.cu-portland.edu

Just curious, anyone on here ever work with Netware/IP 1.1? Don't laugh, but anyone still have an old copy for sale? :) Thanks!

11 years, 5 months

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Restoration technique [Was: Re: Bay Area: IBM 4341 and HP3000]

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Sean Caron > This, too, is something I'd be willing potentially to host gratis, > given the same caveats that I offered Alexandre... Please do! I will volunteer to start contributing content as soon as it's up. > not totally a commercial datacenter in terms of available bandwidth I can't imagine a wiki on the topic of classic computers would draw _that_ much traffic? :-) > I wouldn't have a problem supporting Mediawiki or common back-end > technologies in general i.e. PHP, MySQL... Please get yourself totally up to speed to run a wiki, then! :-) > I can host DNS if someone wanted to get a domain name for it... Why do we need a new domain name? Why not call it "wiki.classiccmp.org"? Pick out one of your statics, let Jay know it, and if he can update the DNS config file for the classiccmp.org zone we're done! Noel

11 years, 5 months

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IBM System/36 follow up

by tots＠matinino.com

Hi everyone, Back to you guys with a small gallery of pictures of the machine via Dropbox. It is a 5360 system ( 1m? / 700 pounds), with french labeled panel. I have not tried to open its guts yet. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fiyipqf9p92mery/AACAXjdASRhVNHM9sPCzh6DVa?dl=0 The system is located in Martinique (French West Indies). It had only one owner, a Medical Laboratory that bought it between 1985-1987 I think and used it on a network with at least 4 maybe 5 terminals and a printer. The system used a software sold by a Paris based company that still exist and keeps on selling software solutions on AS/400 architecture. The Laboratory migrated to new hardware. Later it moved and left the 5360 in the old place. I have no clue about the configuration but I know it had a hard drive and it supported floppy disk banks. From what I've been told, there is no way it can shipped by boat to North America. Simply because you have to fill up a container to be able to make a cargo shipment, and very very few stuff goes this direction so it would take a long while before fullfilling the requirement. The only easy shipping option to North-America is by airplane which is quite a proposition for a 1m? / 320kg box. To send it as a whole to Europe instead is quite easy. There is freight boarding every week and containers are on heavy rotation. Shipping to the main port destination which is "Le Havre, France" would in the vinicity of 500 euros, though some taxes in arrival are to be expected (20% on the items value). I will search the place so more, maybe I can find some documentation. Truly Yours, Hector

11 years, 5 months

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Fw: Thin skins [Was: Restoration technique [Was: Re: Bay Area: IBM 4341 and HP3000]]

by mhs.stein＠gmail.com

Sorry; meant to send that privately. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Stein" <mhs.stein at gmail.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 1:34 PM Subject: Re: Thin skins [Was: Restoration technique [Was: Re: Bay Area: IBM 4341 and HP3000]] > From: "Sean Caron" <scaron at umich.edu> > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 11:23 AM > Subject: Re: Thin skins [Was: Restoration technique [Was: Re: Bay Area: > IBM 4341 and HP3000]] > >> You can read yourself all the threads and decide for yourself, if they >> were >> being written to you, would you find them offensive? > > No. > > It is always *our* choice how to interpret and feel about things we read > and hear and whether to make the effort to understand rather than just > react. > > All Jay said is that his setup, collective experience etc. is perhaps more > suited to this sort of thing than yours but he welcomes you and anyone who > wants to add to the resources available to this community. > > What does offend me is your Straw Man arguments and name calling; Jay a > "bully" ? > > --- > Description of Straw Man > > The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's > actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented > version of that position. > --- > > 'nuff said. > > m

11 years, 5 months

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front panel LED help sought

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Yep, I'm still working on "restoration" of the Microdata Reality. I say "restoration", because due to another restoration project that actually has a deadline, I only have time to clean up the microdata and repair just obvious visual brokenness, not actually start testing/repairing it electronically. That will come after the "deadline project" J As most know, schematics and detailed documentation are nonexistent for this machine. I've done the rack, the disc drive, the tape drive, and the power supply. On to the last item, the front panel. Virtually all of the LED's on the front panel board had so much mouse pee that the leads on the LEDS actually corroded through, so I need to replace them all. Without schematics, can anyone suggest how I might go about determining a suitable replacement LED from an electrical perspective? Pictures at www.ezwind.net/microdata/restoration Best, J

11 years, 5 months

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