- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

UNIBUS extension card/cable sets Was: Looking for info on National Semiconductor RAM board (VAX 11/730)

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: tony duell > a 'Unibus Out', you can plug a Unibus cable in there to link to an > expansion box. The official way involved special dual-height cards at > each end with 3 40-way Berg-type cables linking them. So I'm trying to look into this (BC11 cables being unobtainium these days, at least at prices which are less their weight in gold). I see 'three' different kinds of 'UNIBUS to cables' cards listed: M9014 UNIBUS to 3 H854s M9015 3 H854s to UNIBUS M9031 UNIBUS to 3 3M cables for 11/74 M9042 UNIBUS to 3 H854, Dual I assume the M9014/M9015 are a pair, one used at the start of the cable, and one at the end? Does anyone know the difference between these three, and is my guess about the M9014/M9015 being a pair correct? (I did look for documentation to answer these, but couldn't find any - although maybe I didn't look in the right places.) Noel

11 years

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Tru64 LSM

by BHuntsman＠mail2.cu-portland.edu

Hi there! Anyone remember much about Tru64 + LSM? It's been a while since I've done much with Tru64, and I never used LSM before. I got some new 36GB disks and am doing a fresh install, and wanted to mirror them with LSM, as the SCSI controller is not a RAID card. Initially, the installer picked really stupid defaults, choosing to use only about 3GB of the 36GB available. I was hoping to do something like have the LSM be in total control of the disk, with all filesystems and swap being on LSM volumes. The LSM documentation says this would be called a "sliced" disk. I'm a little rusty on my disklabel specifics, but the Tru64 docs seem to suggest that the 'a' slice is usually used for the / filesystem, 'c' is the whole disk, and g or h is usually used for the LSM private data. So, my questions are: 1. Is it possible to install to and boot from an LSM sliced disk (as opposed to an LSM "simple" disk)? 2. Is it possible to have swap be on an LSM volume, or does it have to be on a slice (like dsk0b or something) 3. Is the 'a' slice strictly required for anything? 4. Would the best (or a good) way to go be to do something like a & b unused, c whole disk, g all the space except 2MB, and h 2MB for LSM data? Thanks and sorry for the stupid questions! -Ben

11 years

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UNIBUS extension card/cable sets Was: Looking fo

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: John Wilson > I've seen M9014s only at the far end of the UBAs on a KS10, so it > wasn't taking the place of a BC11. ??? If it wasn't take the place of a BC11 (i.e. proving a path for the UNIBUS out), what was it doing? > it'd certainly be easy to make replacements for the M9014 and/or M9015. Indeed. Probably more feasible than trying to make more BC11's. Which is another aspect of my interest in these things. Noel

11 years

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XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc

by mhs.stein＠gmail.com

----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" <wdonzelli at gmail.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 8:43 PM Subject: Re: XH558 - was Re: using new technology etc >> Don't forget Cromemco: > > I think we can forget Cromemco. > > The original poster wanted examples of minis > "setup and used on one". > I doubt a Cromemco would survive long in flight > service. This is why I > also pointed out "combat service", as opposed to > being part of a test > set in an air and power conditioned hangar. > > Military aircraft (and marine) service is > *really* hard on equipment. > > -- > Will ----- Reply----- Well, regarding marine service, from one of many histories of Cromemco, e.g.: http://infolab.stanford.edu/pub/voy/museum/pictures/display/3-5-CROMEMCO.ht… "The Z-2 line was the first commercially marketed microcomputer certified for use by the U.S. Navy for use aboard ships without major modification." Memory's not what it used to be and I could be misremembering, but I'm pretty certain that some Z-2s were installed in military aircraft for data collection (admittedly not in combat service); ISTR one of those appearing on eBay a few years ago, bristling with many-conductor cables and military-style Cannon connectors. I'll dig through the literature to see if I can find an official reference. m.

11 years

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HP 2113e Battery resistor

by marc.verdiell＠gmail.com

Thanks a lot for the detailed answer Glen. I have looked in more detail into my machine and its rear connectors. It's a 21MX (2112A), and it has two battery holders at the back. The old batteries even came with it (!). On this machine the battery connectors are just two pronged, + and -, so no thermistor connection apparently. At first glance I thought two other 9 pin connectors were similar to the ones you described and needed to be wired up with the thermistors. But they apparently are totally different things, labeled POWER CONT IN and POWER CONT OUT. After a bit of bitsaver hunting, I gather these are for power control interconnection with optional I/O racks extensions. So I think I am thermistor free. I just need to find new small 12V lead batteries that fit. They are an odd "construction brick" form factor, standard modern gel batteries are too tall. Marc ------------------------------ Glen Slick <glen.slick at gmail.com> said: Subject: Re: HP 2113e Battery resistor I have only looked at the "B" version of the power supply as that is what I have in my 2117F. (Now that I think of it I'm not sure what version of the power supply I have in my 2113B). The details for that are covered in the 5061-1356 section of the 92851-90001_Jun79_9.pdf manual referenced below starting on page 84 of the PDF. As described in section 3-9 on page 105 of the PDF the Power Fail Recovery System (PFRS) option consists of the Battery Charger Board (A3A3) and the Battery Backup Board (A3A4) which are mounted internally in the power supply, and the external mounted Battery/Status Assembly. If the PFRS option is not present the Jumper Board (A3A4) is installed internally in the power supply instead of the Battery Charger Board (A3A3) and the Battery Backup Board (A3A4). If you open up your system far enough to remove the lid on the power supply you can visually inspect the installed boards to determine whether or not the PFRS option is installed in the power supply. The battery pack over-temperature thermistor is integrated into the battery pack. It ends up being connected to the TEMP1 and TEMP2 signals shown on the Battery Charger Board (A3A3) schematic Sheet 6 on page 136 of the PDF. If the PFRS option is not installed the Battery Charger Board (A3A3) is not present and there is nothing that would connect to the battery pack thermistor so it is not necessary for the operation of the power supply. If the PFRS option is installed but the thermistor or resistor equivalent is not connected the CPU will power on but will not be functional. I think all of the front panel lights turn on and none of the switches have any effect. It's been a long time since I looked at that in detail to figure out what was going on. I think some of the voltages are at the correct level, but maybe the memory voltages are not, and some of the power supply status signals (PSU?, PON?) indicate the power supply is not ready and that holds the system in the inactive state. -Glen ------------------------------

11 years

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PDP-12 Restoration at the RICM

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

The LINK indicator light on the front panel of the PDP-12 failed two weeks ago. The indicator light bulb failed, briefly shorted, and destroyed the transistor that turns the indicator on. An new transistor and bulb, and all is well. We have been chasing a transient problem in the PDP-12 core memory for a few weeks. We checked the timing last week, and it was OK. This time we checked the core voltage and it was a little low. We increased the core memory power supply voltage until the checkerboard starting working without errors. Next time we will explore the high and low limits of the core voltage to find a reasonable center voltage for both core stacks. The next step is to run all of the processor diagnostics and make sure that everything is works. If the diags run OK, it is time to fix the TU56 tape drive and see if the drive and controller work. We visited the RCS/RI crew today to look at their LINC-8 and both PDP-12s. Both PDP-12s are earlier than ours. One has floating-point and an RK05. The other has a really interesting RAM buffered AD converter. -- Michael Thompson

11 years

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Place for a build log?

by marc.verdiell＠gmail.com

>> And I have not found the equivalent of our "Builder Logs Thread" on the >> Vintage Computer Forums which I just "discovered". >Maybe Erik would consider adding a category on VCF for build logs? That's a good suggestion. On the R2 group, the Builders Log section was actually added after I suggested it. It is now the most viewed section. But on VCF (that's how you call it?), I think I am way too new to make such a proposal and have it taken seriously... And I don't have yet a good sense of the VCF constituents and interests to understand if this proposal would have any traction either. Someone else would have to ask for me... Where do people that do "heavy duty" or longer lived restoration projects (mainframes, minis, pre-1970 machines) gather on the web? Here I guess :-)?

11 years

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Looking for info on National Semiconductor RAM board (VAX 11/730)

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

I am looking for any information on a National Semiconductor RAM board that I think goes in a VAX 11/730. My 11/730 (which admittedly I have not run) has 2 DEC MS730 boards and 2 of these NatSemi boards, I found another one while unpacking stuff today. It's a hex height DEC-type board with the ejector handles. Connections to fingers on A and B as you might expect, also the grant continuity strapping on C and D, grounds on D (only) and a couple of signals on C (I've not figured out what yet). The only identification I can find on it is in the etch : PWB 551109464-002 B PWA 980109464 (I assume the first is the part number for the bare PCB, the second for the stuffed board) There seems to be one RAM too many!. The main RAM array is 4 rows each of 32 4164-like DRAMs. There is a second block of 28 such DRAMs, presumably 7 bits for each row of the main array to provide the ECC bits. And then a further single RAM off to one side. The DEC MS730 doesn't seem to have this, and I wonder what on earth it is for. Rest of the board is TTL drivers, etc. There are 2 LEDs, one green, one yellow. And a momentary pushbutton switch. I have no idea of the functions of those. Does anyone recognise this board? A related point, I am thinking of removing the TSU05 from my 11/730 and putting an expansion box in place of the tape drive in the rack. In which case I can install this memory board. Is 5MBytes (the maximum an 11/730 can take) worth having over 4MBytes? -tony

11 years

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Place for a build log?

by marc.verdiell＠gmail.com

I like to do build logs for my more complex and long lived restorations or builds, so people can inspire themselves from what I do, and give advice (and encouragement, that helps too!). In one of my many other hobbies (hum, R2-D2 robot replica building, yes, there is such a thing), everyone puts their build log as a thread on a Forum. Very easy to search and follow. Members of the forum also have a place to store files. The best build logs get a lot of hits. Do you have an equivalent for classic computer restorations? I see some people have their own blog on regular blog sites. But I dislike the format - it's posted reverse latest first, you can only see the latest posts at once. Not anywhere as good as a thread. Or people have their own website, which is a bit of a pain as you have to discover them one by one - and spend time making a web site. And I have not found the equivalent of our "Builder Logs Thread" on the Vintage Computer Forums which I just "discovered". Any other/better/smarter solutions you can point me to? - Marc

11 years

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Components Data Books

by radiotest＠juno.com

At 12:30 PM 6/16/2015, Mattis Lind wrote: >I have compiled a list of them, mostly for my self, so that I somewhat easier would find what I look for. That is a nice list, and includes many that are not among my ~80 (which does not include my ~60 vacuum tube manuals). Could you post the original spreadsheet somewhere? It would be a reference that would be much easier to use than the online version. Dale H. Cook, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA Osborne 1 / Kaypro 4-84 / Kaypro 1 / Amstrad PPC-640 http://plymouthcolony.net/starcity/radios/index.html

11 years

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Front Panel Tech Note 5 - Options

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hi Guys The combination of shipments going out and resposes to the survay (thanks everybody) have shown up some diffences between 8/e's. The first and most important one is the change of markings for the selector switch where they must have changed switch type at some point. Its the case that you will have one or the other. I can get another screen made up with the angled markings at switch positions 1 and 6. When you order you can then specify which one you require. The other two are cosmetic and have no impact on operation. Firstly there is sometimes a line around the area where the selector switch is located. Secondly vertical lines dividing up the lamps into groups of three are sometimes present. I can't yet work out if there's any pattern to where they do and dont appear. (not enough data) The easiest way to fix this is to either add the markings to all the panels or none of them. Comments please.... Rod

11 years

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HP 2113e Battery resistor

by marc.verdiell＠gmail.com

Ah thanks, this is what these are for, thermistors. They are supposed to monitor the temperature somewhere I suppose? Attached to the batteries? The power supplies? The computer won't start without these I understand? Sorry I am a bit of a newbee with HP 1000's. Have not tried to power mine quite yet. Marc >Glen Slick <glen.slick at gmail.com> said >The Temperature Sense Thermistor RT1, normaly 815 ohms, is wired >across the two outside pins of the middle row, pins 4 and 6. >http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/92851-90001_Jun79_9.p df >Description page 111 >Schematic page 168

11 years

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Need DZQ11 (M3106) Print Set

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

{Re-send, since apparently a lot of mail to CCTalk yesterday went into the bit bucket...} I guess I've struck out here? That's such bad luck; other things, there are multiple copies out there, but apparently none at all of this one... Oh well, I guess I'll start with the DZQ11 TM, and with an ohm-meter try and trace out the initialization circuitry (which is clearly broken) at least. Noel

11 years

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Wright Line punch manual

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

Yes, that is the one we have here at the museum! yea pretty easy ( compared to a teletype) but we just like to have manuals or copies of them for everything we have here in the various collection areas. Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 6/20/2015 9:39:45 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, tony.aiuto at gmail.com writes: Like this one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wright-Punch-Model-2600-/331580084313 I'm not sure it really needs a manual. I repaired one with a careful disassemble and cleaning. On mine, the cord linking the tension spring to the mechanism had broken. A trip to the hardware store found something similar. It took a few tries to get the right length and tension, but it works now. On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Dennis Boone <drb at msu.edu> wrote: > Does anyone have routine maintenance information (e.g. user or service > manuals) for the Wright Line manual punches? My newly acquired unit > seems to need a little lubrication. I'll guess if I have to, but... > > This is the variety with the large grey wheel on the side to select the > desired character, and a sort of "wheelhouse" in the middle to hide the > cams, ribbon mechanism, etc. There's no model number sticker on it. > > Thanks! > > De >

11 years

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OT: learner kits (was: Re: using new technology on old machines)

by nf6x＠nf6x.net

> On Jun 19, 2015, at 19:19 , Tapley, Mark <mtapley at swri.edu> wrote: > He has a Raspberry Pi, which he pretty much contempts in favor of his laptop, which will play the modern version of MineCraft :-P, but presumably hooking those together might be fun. I suspect that boards like the Raspberry Pi, Arduino, etc. might get a lot more interesting if they can affect the real world. See if a servo motor adds some appeal. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net> http://www.nf6x.net/

11 years

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Wright Line punch manual

by tony.aiuto＠gmail.com

Like this one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wright-Punch-Model-2600-/331580084313 I'm not sure it really needs a manual. I repaired one with a careful disassemble and cleaning. On mine, the cord linking the tension spring to the mechanism had broken. A trip to the hardware store found something similar. It took a few tries to get the right length and tension, but it works now. On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Dennis Boone <drb at msu.edu> wrote: > Does anyone have routine maintenance information (e.g. user or service > manuals) for the Wright Line manual punches? My newly acquired unit > seems to need a little lubrication. I'll guess if I have to, but... > > This is the variety with the large grey wheel on the side to select the > desired character, and a sort of "wheelhouse" in the middle to hide the > cams, ribbon mechanism, etc. There's no model number sticker on it. > > Thanks! > > De >

11 years

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OT: learner kits (was: Re: using new technology on old machines)

by mouse＠Rodents-Montreal.ORG

> Is there a reason to prefer 7400 series over CD4000 series logic? If you can find real TTL, yes, I would say so. It's less static-sensitive and it's more tolerant to things like hooking two outputs together by mistake. But note that there are many chips that have more or less TTL interfaces (TTL voltages, TTLish numbers, and in some cases switching thresholds) but are actually CMOS - the 74ALS series comes to mind. Of course, if someone somehow builds CMOS chips with TTL's ESD tolerance, short-circuit tolerance, etc, then great. But that's not what I've seen. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

11 years

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Intel ipsc/860 [QIC tapes recover]

by plamenspam＠afterpeople.com

I managed to rescue few tapes containg installation sw+c compilers, fortran and forge. While I was trying to make a backup all cartriges broke st some stage due to too old belts. The magnetic tape of 2 of 4 cartriges seems ok. So I'm looking for somone within EU who has experience in this to try to save whatever is possible. Regards, Plamen

11 years

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OT: learner kits

by jws＠jwsss.com

On 6/19/2015 8:21 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: > On 19 June 2015 at 22:38, William Donzelli<wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote: >> >Let him play Minecraft. Start with simple redstone contraptions, then >> >move to command blocks. >> > > I'm not ashamed to admit I (24 y/o) play Minecraft now and again (with > friends on their own private servers). When I visited ALR, a company in Irvine that evolved into making PC type servers and were absorbed into Gateway (name still is used) had a lab with a lot of hardware stations, and for the time good networking. At about noon or so one one of my visits for Sun Microsystems, about a dozen of the engineers showed up and proceeded to pull out hardware and cables, and displays at various stations and hooked them all up pretty quickly. This was in about 92 or 93, I'd guess. They converted the lab into a big Doom game for about an hour. I also found out the best time to round up and have casual consultations with them about things I wondered about with some systems. Thanks jim

11 years

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RK06 alignment pack

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

Anyone need an RK06 alignment pack: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Equipment-RK06-Aglinment-pack-/221803433215 Seems like something that should definitely get saved! Noel

11 years

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Documation card readers for sale

by ball.of.john＠gmail.com

Just a heads up that both units are now pending a sale. If one or either completely fall through I'll bump this back up here on the list. Thanks to all who inquired. -John

11 years

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Have you seen Droste Week on RetroBattlestations?

by fozztexx＠fozztexx.com

It?s Droste Week on RetroBattlestations! Inspired by a couple of different posts, I thought it would be fun to do a challenge where people don?t just post a picture of their computer, but they display the picture of their computer *on* their computer and post that! It?s going quite well and I really enjoy reading about the hoops people are having to jump through to get pictures converted and transferred and displayed. There have been photos of monochrome computers with high resolution, low resolution block graphics, ASCII art on CP/M computers, and even a mechanical typewriter! What can you come up with? http://retrobattlestations.com -- Follow me on twitter: @FozzTexx Check out my blog: http://insentricity.com

11 years

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Altos ACS 8000 8500 board Schematic

by billdegnan＠gmail.com

Altos ACS 8000 8500 board schematics/chapter from the 8000 hardware supplement posted here: http://vintagecomputer.net/altos/8000/ b

11 years

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Documation card readers for sale

by ball.of.john＠gmail.com

Oh butts I sent that before I proofread. I'm in the Pacific Northwest, about three or four hours east of Vancouver BC. I have access to freight services should you take that route but for your wallet I'd strongly recommend some sort of local or negotiated pickup. ;0 >>Are the readers in question these ones in Canada? >>http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?45888-FS-Documation -M1000-Card-Readers Yes, that's me and those are the readers. >>>I'm also working on getting a cable made to hook up to the M843 CR8-E >>>punched card reader interface for the PDP-8/E, but that's a project for >>>another day (year?). That bloody EDAC connector is not cheap. I ended up sourcing one for like $60. On the other hand you can hunt around for scrap 50 conductor telco cable and you're all set for cabling. You can usually get it for its weight in copper from a scrapyard. -John

11 years

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Components Data Books

by mattislind＠gmail.com

When repairing machines it is some times hard to find the data sheet for a particular component. Sometimes google hasn't been able to find the the data sheet for me. My father worked in the electronics business for his entire career and kept a lot of the data books that he received. I have compiled a list of them, mostly for my self, so that I somewhat easier would find what I look for. I publish it here. If you have searched everywhere (bitsavers , google etc) and not got a decent hit and think that one of the data books in my fathers archive would help I might be able to assist. No - I am not going to scan entire books. But a few pages is OK. The latency might be high since the archive is located 100 km away. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fTfBDLxl40e2iNrbwLv1ZGgIaXvz_toyvfc… I will add more to the list as time passes. There are quite a big bunch of data books left to do an inventory on. /Mattis

11 years

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Front Panels - First shipments arrive in US

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Good Morning All Panel Fans!! According to the shippers the first consignments of PDP-8/e front panels were delivered in the US yesterday, Confirmations and comments to me please. Rod Smallwood

11 years

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Documation card readers for sale

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

ok the m 200 and 600? tend to have gooey rollers... thus the reason I ask... In a message dated 6/17/2015 7:27:16 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us writes: I haven't replaced the rubber rollers on my M1000, yet. They're still in good shape. On Wed, 17 Jun 2015, COURYHOUSE at aol.com wrote: > Mike where did you get new rubber roller things for the card > reader? > Thanks for the link on the interface. Ed# _www.smecc.org_ > (http://www.smecc.org) > > > > In a message dated 6/17/2015 7:21:15 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, > mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us writes: > > On Wed, 17 Jun 2015, Kyle Owen wrote: > >> On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 7:14 PM, John Ball <ball.of.john at gmail.com> > wrote: >> >>> About six months ago I struck a deal with a place down in California for >>> four Documation M1000's that I've been able to tell so far they all > work >>> but >>> I really don't have space for more than one. >> >> >> If anyone here does get one, I've got a simple Arduino UNO program that >> interfaces to the parallel output and sends fully decoded information > over >> USB at quite high speeds. The M-1000-L is a great reader, very reliable, >> and easy to work on too (I did a little routine maintenance, but mine was >> in 100% working shape when I got it). >> >> Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N27Mr199I7g > > There's also Brian Knittel's USB interface for the Documation readers: > > http://media.ibm1130.org/sim/cardread.zip > > I built one, and it works well. > > > Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us > Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/ > > Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

11 years

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Documation card readers for sale

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

Mike where did you get new rubber roller things for the card reader? Thanks for the link on the interface. Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 6/17/2015 7:21:15 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us writes: On Wed, 17 Jun 2015, Kyle Owen wrote: > On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 7:14 PM, John Ball <ball.of.john at gmail.com> wrote: > >> About six months ago I struck a deal with a place down in California for >> four Documation M1000's that I've been able to tell so far they all work >> but >> I really don't have space for more than one. > > > If anyone here does get one, I've got a simple Arduino UNO program that > interfaces to the parallel output and sends fully decoded information over > USB at quite high speeds. The M-1000-L is a great reader, very reliable, > and easy to work on too (I did a little routine maintenance, but mine was > in 100% working shape when I got it). > > Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N27Mr199I7g There's also Brian Knittel's USB interface for the Documation readers: http://media.ibm1130.org/sim/cardread.zip I built one, and it works well. Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

11 years

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using new technology on old machines

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Mark J. Blair > I could replace an M1 Carbine trigger spring on the spot, or a HMMWV > taillamp housing ... Should I criticize you for not having SAE grade 8 > hardware on hand, or Bristo wrenches I think Tony's point was that someone who's into vintage computers ought to have a stock of suitable parts for them. So unless he's into older guns, or cars, were he not to have things like SAE 8 hardware around, that would be understandable - he doesn't do them. Having said that, _I_ don't have 2N3904s nor NE555s around either! I do have a modest number of parts (e.g. 4164's, 40-ping Berg shells, .250 tab hardware, etc, etc) - a large enough collection that I just had to re-organize and add more parts holders (although that was mostly because I went berserk at the local Radio Shack in the 80% off sale). But it takes a long time to build up a really comprehensive collection of parts. It's funny, I was thinking of this exact topic last night - wondering if I could find someone who's selling off a large cabinet full of mixed spares! (I was thinking of the experience of one list member, who lucked into such.) I could certainly use it! Noel

11 years

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RK06 alignment pack

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Pontus Pihlgren > How was alignment packs produced? On a special rig, I'm pretty sure. I don't know how the RK06 alignment pack works, but I am familiar with the RK05 (our machine had them, and we had to realign one after a head crash), and I assume it's probably similar; it had to have been created on a special rig (the exact nature of which I don't know, but I know a normal drive couldn't write it). For the RK05, the alignment pack has alignment tracks with alternating sectors written a couple of thousandths of an inch offset from the track's nominal center line; when one watches the head's output on a 'scope (at a timebase sufficient to show pairs of sectors), if the output for both sectors in a pair is at the same amplitude, the head is correctly aligned. If not, it's easy to see on the 'scope - one has higher output than the other. Noel

11 years

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OT? Compaq 5/60M

by billdegnan＠gmail.com

I know I keep pushing the boundary of vintage lately but I wanted to report to those who care that I finally got my hands on a 1993 Compaq 5/60M - this is "a if not the" first desktop computer with a Pentium processor installed stock. it was the 1993 "dream machine - $9000+ It had an EISA bus and was otherwise a 486 system with a Pentium controller card, not on the motherboard. Pentium computers' contribution to the WWW era vintage is extremely significant. Pentium killed the minicomputer, or at a minimum merged into it, if you ask me. The interplay between DEC/Compaq/HP/Intel 1992-1995 culminating into the launch of Pentium processor systems is vital to understanding the WWW era of computing. How these companies worked or did not work together and how the Pentium vs. the Alpha processor came to be...a good tale of woe and $$. For those interested: Compaq 5/60: http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=612 I have a bunch of articles to post on my site related to the first Pentium desktops which I will do asap. Bill P.S. while we're on this off-sh topic I also posted some photos of a Digital 486 laptop, DEC had a 486 laptop before it was absorbed by Compaq. 1994. Not really noteworthy other than the Digital name http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=613 P.S.S. and related to Pentium and DEC ... here is one of DEC's early (but not the first) Pentium machine http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=585

11 years

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DEC RRD-42 CDROM drives

by richardlo＠admin.athabascau.ca

Somebody said something recently about wanting an RRD-42 or two. I just found two of them in my pile of obselete electronics and I don't need them. I also found two RRD-40s but my VAX3000/30 is fond of those. I did not find any RRD-45s which my AS4100 has a taste for. Speak up if you are looking for an RRD-42, I can also throw in the spiffy little CD carrier. -- Richard Loken VE6BSV, Unix System Administrator : "Anybody can be a father Athabasca University : but you have to earn Athabasca, Alberta Canada : the title of 'daddy'" ** richardlo at admin.athabascau.ca ** : - Lynn Johnston

11 years

3
3
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using new technology on old machines

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Dave G4UGM > I found it easier to think of it in DC terms. So the Cap charges > through R5 + R3 and R9 + R8. > As the Cap charges the voltage on the base of Q1 rises until it turns > on, which then turns on Q2. > At this point the cap is then charged (or discharged) in the reverse > direction via Q2, D5 and R4 until Q1 turns off..... I'm clearly never going to be any good at analog stuff! ;-) Even with what looks (on the surface) to be a wonderfully clear explanation of how the circuit works, I still can't really grok how it operates! I mean, I can tell from the polarity on the cap that the collector of Q2 must be at a higher voltage than the base of Q1, but I am utterly failing to understand how the cap discharges through Q2. And as the cap charges (i.e. the voltage across it increases), how does the voltage on the base of Q1 increase - surely it must be decreasing (since it's tied to the negative side of the cap, which is experiencing a voltage increase across itself)? Like I said, I apparently don't have the gene for analog... :-) Noel

11 years

2
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using new technology on old machines

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Pontus Pihlgren > One computer I could imagine would sparc interest is a new PDP-6. Umm, perhaps not the best choice! The original PDP-6 was known for being, ah, flaky. There's a reason DEC sold less of them than any other DEC machine! (Nothing wrong with the _architecture_, mind - the KA-10, which is basically identical, was _very_ successful. It was purely the implementation.) Noel

11 years

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PDP-12 Restoration at the RICM

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> > Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 19:42:42 -0400 > From: Michael Thompson <michael.99.thompson at gmail.com> > To: cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org> > > The M452 creates a 220 Hz clock for the TTY transmitter and a 880 Hz clock > for the TTY receiver. > The M405 for the DP12-B serial port generated a clock that is 16x the baud > rate which is then divided by an M216 module. > > Michael Thompson > > Just to prolong this discussion... The PDP-12 came to us with an M452 for the 110 baud TTY console and a home-made adjustable baud rate module for the second serial port. The adjustable baud rate generator was made by the original user of the system in the early 80s, and is just a crystal, rotary switch and a Fairchild 4702. I ordered a replacement Intersil IM4702 so we can repair the module. The original owner doesn't remember ever having an M405 for the second serial port. -- Michael Thompson

11 years

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Lee Felsenstein says you should read my book :)

by evan＠snarc.net

I am humbled (yes, it is possible!) .... got a very nice email from Homebrew Computer Club moderator / SOL-20 co-developer / Osborne 1 chief engineer (and many more): "This book presents the history of personal, portable computing from the abacus to the present day in a remarkably thorough, accessible fashion. Not only the winners are described but the also-rans and almost-made-its. Koblentz has done an admirable job of research and description in covering the field. I've always been careful to claim that my Osborne-1 design was only the "first commercially-successful portable computer" because I knew that a book like this would be forthcoming to show the time lines, descriptions and designers of earlier efforts. By nature a survey of the field, it is thoroughly researched and can provide pointers to more in-depth investigations." Evan again: still just eight bucks in PDF edition. http://www.abacustosmartphone.com. Also: This is version "1.0"; all first-batch readers will also get the PDF of version 1.x for free when it's ready.

11 years

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On the Emulation of TU58s

by nf6x＠nf6x.net

As long as we're talking philosophy, what do y'all think about emulating the TU58 drive, vs. emulating the TU58 *tape*? I cannot properly express my opinion of that tape cartridge design even if I violate list rules about use of profanity. But the drive itself isn't all that bad, aside from not having enough motors to manipulate a well-designed tape cartridge mechanism. Emulating the whole tape drive is pretty easy since it helpfully interfaces over a plain old asynchronous serial port. But replacing the whole drive with an emulator, or worse yet tethering its computer to a modern computer, leaves a bit of an empty feeling if one likes their vintage machines to be original. There's something missing when you don't hear the drive whirring, and the system boot completes within a modern attention span. But what about emulating the tape cartridge, instead? Imagine a gizmo in the form factor of a TU58 cartridge, containing a wheel for the capstan roller to engage, but connected to an encoder instead of the ******* ************ ***** ** **** belt drive of an original cartridge? Where the tape would normally be exposed, there is instead a magnetic head which rests against the tape drive head like in one of those gizmos for injecting line level audio into an audio cassette drive. It might need an external power source, but for the sake of argument, let's pretend that a suitable rechargeable battery can be embedded. Maybe it has an SD card slot on the rear, or maybe it looks just like a real TU58 cartridge when inserted, and you swap the whole thing to change tapes (this is open for discussion). Would this be more or less acceptable in terms of keeping the system as close to original as possible, vs. unplugging the original drive and plugging in a drive emulator? No, I'm not going to build the thing. I'll just build my TU58 drive emulator to fit in the cartridge slot but plug into the computer in place of the original drive, with the cables snaked through the original drive mechanism. And I'll feel a little bit dirty, but the thing will work reliably and will be easy to implement. I'm just curious about the philosophical implications of my silly cartridge emulator idea. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net> http://www.nf6x.net/

11 years

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using new technology on old machines

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: wulfman > 2.47 per each ic is kinda expensive US$170 / 420 ICs = US$.40 per IC? (I suspect you swapped the numerator and demoninator: 420 / 170 = 2.47.) Seems not too unreasonable. I did order one, we'll see what it looks like (thanks to the OP for the tip). > i have 10s of thousands of each 74 series part there was ever made been > collecting on ebay for 15 years Want to get rid of some of the excess? :-) Noel

11 years

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using new technology on old machines

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: tony duell > One method that works for me is that if you are buying a fairly cheap > part, buy 10 of them and put the rest in stock. Or more than 10 if it > is something really common. I suspect a lot of us do that - that's why I have tubes of 4164's, etc, for instance. It makes a lot of sense, because it's trivial to implement - it's just as much work to order 10 of something, as 1. But that model isn't really the best, because a lot of the time one winds up needing something one doesn't already have. Which is why it's better to lay in a diversified stock up front. E.g. in wood screws (I do a lot of work in wood, mostly furniture), I have a fairly comprehensive collection; from #6 through #12, all the available lengths (not the very longest ones, though), counter-sunk and round-headed, with both slot and Phillips drive. But doing so in IC's - oi vey! Just in TTL alone, there are dozens of common parts (hundreds, if you count the more obscure ones), and then you get into the whole 74, 74S, 74LS, 74ALS, 74L, 74H, 74F, yadda-yadda. Of course, most of the variants one would never need, but one can't get by with just, e.g. LS; e.g. if I ever get my wish and wind up with a PDP-11/45, that's mostly S, IIRC. I wish there was some _easy_ way to lay in a stock of the most common TTL IC's - e.g. some kind of kit one could buy - but alas, I don't know of any. (Hence my dream of finding and acquiring someone else's collection! :-) Suggestions for the source of such a good diversified 'starter kit' welcome... Noel

11 years

4
4
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Serial UNIBUS Repeater?

by nf6x＠nf6x.net

Has anybody ever made a UNIBUS repeater with a high speed serial link between the bus segments yet? I'm curious because my VAX-11/730 backplane is full, and it would be nice to be able to experiment with additional hardware without needing to pull out one of the existing boards, i.e., adding a TK50 interface without removing the DEUNA, adding a SCSI card to boot from a scsi2sd without pulling the integrated drive controller, etc. There's a blank spot in the TU80 cabinet that looks like it may be tall enough for an expansion chassis, but the thought of adding more big ribbon cables to the belly plate area and then routing them between racks doesn't appeal to me. Running something like a CAT5 cable between the two racks would be a lot easier. Another application would be for placing a small remote UNIBUS backplane on the test bench for easy access, and cabling it to a VAX or PDP-11 elsewhere in the room. This should be quite possible with modern hardware, but I'm curious about whether something similar has been done before. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net> http://www.nf6x.net/

11 years

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Fairchild

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

Does anyone happen to know what sort of computers Fairchild would have been using in the late 60's for design work? Zane

11 years

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PDP-12 Restoration at the RICM

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> > Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 05:01:36 +0000 > From: tony duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> > Subject: RE: PDP-12 Restoration at the RICM (tony duell) > > > > Tony, thank you for your offer to supply replacement M452 Variable Clock > > modules for the console. We already have one jumpered for 110 baud for > the > > Teletype. The other two M452 modules should be jumpered for 9600 baud and > > 38400 baud. The second serial port uses a M405 Crystal Clock module with > a > > Do you want 3 separate modules, or one switchable, or what? > > > different pinout and clock outputs than the M452. We don't have any of > > these modules, so the three that we need should be jumpered for 110 baud, > > 9600 baud, and 38400 baud. The shipping address for the RICM is on the > WWW > > page. > > Hang on. I thought the M405 was just a crystal oscillator without a > divider. Are > you sure there is no extra division on other modules? 110Hz is very slow > for > a crystal oscillator, after all. > > -tony > The M452 creates a 110 Hz clock for the TTY transmitter and a 880 Hz clock for the TTY receiver. The M405 for the DP12-B serial port generated a clock that is 16x the baud rate which is then divided by an M216 module. Michael Thompson

11 years

2
1
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using new technology on old machines

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Dave G4UGM > Trouble is that although smaller SD cards were available they were way > more expensive (being discontinued and therefore rare and valuable).. One wonders why some manufacturer didn't realize there was money to be made in smaller cards (now less competition, but still enough demand to drive the prices up) and keep making them. Noel

11 years

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1
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UA11s

by ggs＠shiresoft.com

For a while now, folks have been asking me about UA11s. I've been putting them off because I'm sure I have some boards but can't find them until I unpack the "basement" of my new shop. I figured that I'd have done that by now but it's *still* not done. :-( So, in the name of customer service, I'm going to fab another round of UA11 boards (just the boards, you'll have to source all of the parts yourselves). So that I know how big an order to place, can folks contact me (off list please: ggs at shiresoft.com) on if you'd like a board (or two or ??). I just want to have a rough idea of what the demand is (ie should I order 10, 25, 100?). Thanks. TTFN - Guy

11 years

1
2
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First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

by cctalk＠beyondthepale.ie

> > > I'm having trouble with the password reset procedure (but will resolve it by > the end of this message). When I run AUTHORIZE, I get this: > [snip] > $ set noon > set noon > $ spawn /nowait sys$system:startup.com > spawn /nowait sys$system:startup.com > %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process SYSTEM_1 spawned > $ > %DCL-W-NOLBLS, label ignored - use only within command procedures > \SYS$SYSTEM:\ > %DCL-W-PARMDEL, invalid parameter delimiter - check use of special characters > \.COM\ Did I say that? I meant: $ spawn /nowait @sys$system:startup.com (sorry) Regards, Peter Coghlan.

11 years

5
14
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Vaxstation 4000/60 autoboot

by marco＠familie-rauhut.eu

Hello list! I try to autoboot my Vaxstation 4000/60. The reason is that i want to drive the vax headless. I have set Disk DKA300 as boot hdd in console mode. I SET HALT 2 ( reboot). In this configutarion the system starts into SYSBOOT>. There i have to give the command CONTINUE to boot VMS. Is there any way to overide then CONTINUE command? Marco * Deutsch - erkannt * Englisch * Deutsch * Englisch * Deutsch <javascript:void(0);><#>

11 years

4
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VAX 11/730

by emu＠e-bbes.com

As usual, a long shot, but anybody in the list like to get rid of one? Preferably Colorado ;-)

11 years

3
2
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Front Panel Tech Note 2

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Rod Smallwood > I can tell you what they were called internally at DEC. > ... > They were called Toggles or Toggle switches and their use was called > 'Toggling' hence 'To toggle in the bootstrap' Maybe because on the older machines (e.g. PDP-1) they really were toggle switches? > From: Kyle Owen > I hear them referred to as handles. That would work. Still, it would be nice to find a front panel mechanical drawing and see what they are called on the BoM. (I tried to find one for the 11/20 front panel, and although I found the tech manual for it, I couldn't the print set for the front panel.) Noel

11 years

1
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Fix for duplicate (and triplicate) messages on cctalk?

by cclist＠sydex.com

I know that others have discussed the issue, but can someone tell me concisely how to avoid multiple copies of the same message on cctalk? Overnight, 54 new messages arrived in my inbox. The problem was that I'd seem a large number of them a day or two before. What's the trick to keeping things simple, people? --Chuck

11 years

2
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PDP-12 Restoration at the RICM (tony duell)

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> > Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 15:25:08 +0000 > From: tony duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > Subject: RE: PDP-12 Restoration at the RICM > > > Warren made an Arduino based programmable baud rate generator that works > > for both serial ports. After some debugging, it works nicely. > > I am sorry, but I find that obscene!. To use more components than the rest > of the machine > (probably) just for the baud rate clock is ridiculous. IMHO if you are > going to modify a > vintage machine, particularly one as rare as a PDP12, you should use the > components > that were available at the time. It's not as if a programmable buad rate > generator is hard > to make from TTL either. In fact given the Arduino thing needed 'some > debugging' it might > well have taken less time to do it in hardware. > > -tony > Tony, thank you for your offer to supply replacement M452 Variable Clock modules for the console. We already have one jumpered for 110 baud for the Teletype. The other two M452 modules should be jumpered for 9600 baud and 38400 baud. The second serial port uses a M405 Crystal Clock module with a different pinout and clock outputs than the M452. We don't have any of these modules, so the three that we need should be jumpered for 110 baud, 9600 baud, and 38400 baud. The shipping address for the RICM is on the WWW page. -- Michael Thompson

11 years

2
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