CLASSICCMP Digest 11
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: How long will they last?
by William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net>
2) Re: How long will they last?
by Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com>
3) Re: How long will they last?
by hellige <jeffh@eleventhFrom classicjr
From: classicjr
Full-Name: Jeffrey G. Rottman
To: ronaldm(a)mars.ark.com
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 08:02:47 PST
Subject: Osborne Parts
X-Status: Unsent
X-Mailer: Juno 1.00
Ron, Did you say you have a Drive C and things for the Osborne? I might
be interested. I am getting an Osborne Executive, but not sure whether the same Drive C would work on both the O1 and the Exec.
Did you just want to get rid of it?
I could pay shipping costs to me in Texas if it could work with the Exec.
Reply here or to: rottman(a)juno.com my other Email address.
Thanks!!
On 01-Apr-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
>We ORIC users do exactly this -- use a PC sound card to transfer/copy those
>old program tapes. Works wonderfully. You might want to take a look at the
>Oric pages on http://www.ensica.fr/oric to see if any of the technology in
>use there is worthwhile for your needs.
I would think that all that would be needed was a standard cassette player
that has both a MIC jack and a line-out jack. To make a WAV or other format
recording of the data cassette, one would just plug the line out of the
cassette player into the line-in on the soundcard and use your favorite
recording software. You'd likely have to play with the volume to get it just
right though. One would do just the opposite to create a copy of the data
cassette file: plug the line-out of the soundcard up to the MIC jack on the
cassette recorder. Again, it's likely one would have to play with the volume
level for a bit. I used to use my home stereo system for my Timex-Sinclair's
mass storage, and sometimes it got outright picky about the volume!
The question then is: what sampling rate would be the best overall for
this? Obviously, I don't think you'd need to use the stereo mode, but it'd be
nice to keep the file size down if possible, without affecting the quality of
the recording.
I realize it'd be on shaky ground legally, but would any of you be
interested in creating an archive of these data tape images? This would
certainly ensure the programs originally provided on tape would be around much
longer than the original tapes themselves.
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago
// -------------------------------------------------------
\// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware,
\/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X,
Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A,
Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4.
Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles.
I have had a response to my request to find a Laser PC-4 Notebook
computer from someone here, but they referred me to a reseller that has
modified it by adding a larger screen and more memory, which is fine,
except now it doesn't have software for appointments and a clock
calendar, I don't believe. They call it a Laser PC-5.
Does anyone know where I could find a real PC-4 as sold several years
ago? I would be interested in a used one.
Respond here or at : rotation(a)juno.com
On 31-Mar-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
>Just the machine itself, unfortunately (Remember, the Aquarius was
>discontinued just about the same time it hit the stores . . .) There were
>promises of memory expansion, disk drives, etc., but I never saw any for
>sale . . .
Actually, the only piece of documentation I have for mine shows a pic of
all kinds of stuff hooked to it as well as a price list for the stuff. It's
pretty interesting.
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago
// -------------------------------------------------------
\// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware,
\/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X,
Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A,
Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4.
Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles.
On 30-Mar-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
>> Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A,
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>You got one too? Have you ever been able to do much with it?
>(I picked up one for free at a flea market a few years back. Only about
>4K, but I was able to write some simple Basic programs, and even save them
>on tape, with it. . .)
I've actually got two...One under the Mattel name, the other under the
Radofin name. Same machine though, as Radofin was the actual manufacturer of
it I believe. It's a pretty simple machine, but interesting. I've played
with the Basic somewhat, but haven't tried to do much. What all do you have
for the Aquarius?
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago
// -------------------------------------------------------
\// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware,
\/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X,
Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A,
Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4.
Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles.
On 31-Mar-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
>This was my very first computer. I still miss it to this day. I harbor
>few regrets in my life but one of them is selling this system with my
>atari 2600 to buy my first apple. The 2600 I've since replaced (ten
>fold) and I'm sure someday I'll run into another aquarius and will have
>it too, but I can never replace the programming I did on it. I had a
>comic book inventory database program and I wrote seevral simple arcade
>games. My setup was the aquarius with an expansion box that plugged into
>the expansion slot that allowed two carthridges to be plugged in
>simultaneously. This allowed a 4K memory expansion card to be plugged in
>along with other game carthridges which required the increased memory. I
>had a 4K mem carthridge, a couple games, keypad controllers, a thermal
>printer, and two tape drives. What a fun little system. Some day I will
>recoup all this gear. I just hope the kid I sold it too got as much use
>out of it as I did.
Sam,
Sounds like quite a system. From the picture on the flyer I have, the
Aquarius hooked up to all the expansion gear was quite a sight as well. As
has already been mentioned, I have two base Aquarius computers, one of which
is the Mattel variant which I recently picked up on a whim. Would you be
interested in this machine? It's fucntional,though needs a little cleaning
up. You are welcome to it...just let me know.
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago
// -------------------------------------------------------
\// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware,
\/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X,
Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A,
Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4.
Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles.
>At 07:22 AM 3/28/97 PST, you wrote:
>>I'm about to become the proud owner of my first Osborne Computer. An
>>"Executive" is being sent to me next week. I can't wait to get it going.
>
>Congratulations. They are neat beasts.
>> internal Ram
>>Disk known as "Drive C" or maybe a Bios upgrade, or some software.
>>
>>Anyone have a source for these items now? Such as the Ram Disk or maybe a
>>Hard Disk upgrade??
>
>Interesting you mention the "Drive C" unit, I have on e in my collection
>but no software or docs. Anyone have any info on this critter?
>
Yes. Where are you? I have a manual that deals with both the hard drive and
the Drive "C" attachment. Also have two drive "C" units. Have never been
able to get them to work properly, and the docs don't help much. At any
rate, the manual is a rather thick document and unfortunately, it's not mine
to lend or sell at this point. Depending on what you want to know, I could
photocopy exerpts.
-Ron Mitchell
JEFF>>> At a swap meet today, I picked up 9 VIC-20 cartridges as well as one
JEFF>>> program tape. Among the VIC cartridges was a 16k RAM expansion and
one called
JEFF>> 'Programmers Aid Cartridge' (VIC-1212).
Jeff, there is a 28 page manual that comes with that cart. Following quote
might help get you started:
Quote:
After the VIC is inserted (the cartridge) type the following:
SYS 28681 (and hit the return key)
The VIC will display the following message:
PROGRAMMER'S AID
READY
All of the AID commands are now included in your VIC's internal instruction
set and may be used like any BASIC commands
END QUOTE
The cartridge adds 20 apecial editing commands to the VIC's instruction
vocabulary and gives you an easy method for re-defining the VIC's
programmable function keys.
the commands are:
AUTO FIND OFF
CHANGE HELP PROG
DELETE KEY RENUMBER
DUMP KILL STEP
EDIT MERGE TRACE
CTRL A, E, L, N, Q, U also provide additional editing functions.
Function keys are assigned various jobs; ie F1 is LIST, F3 is RUN, F5 is
GOTO, F7 is INPUT
Of course, there is more detail as to useage and some specific examples
contained in the manual.
Was just trying the thing out... hoping that the HELP command would provide
some syntax examples for you. Unfortunately it doesn't. The HELP command
will pinpoint a syntax error in your program if you use it directly after
receiving an error message.
Photocopying this short manual would cost me about $5. If you'll send me the
money, I'll do it for you.
JEFF>>> Also, can anyone explain the reasoning behind the different color
schemes
JEFF>> >for the labels?
I have both. Don't know why it is so. Manufacturer's perrogative?
-Ron Mitchell
At a swap meet today, I picked up 9 VIC-20 cartridges as well as one
program tape. Among the VIC cartridges was a 16k RAM expansion and one called
'Programmers Aid Cartridge' (VIC-1212). I popped the cartridge into the
VIC-20 and the computer still boots right into Basic 2.0. Is this some kind
of debugging cartridge then that helps with errors and such? None of the
cartridges I picked up came with the docs but the ones I've tried seem to work
ok so far.
Also, can anyone explain the reasoning behind the different color schemes
for the labels? The Gorf and Radar Ratrace cartridges I already had both have
cream cases with cream/brown/black labels. The new cartridges I got today
have brown cases with silver/black labels, though some have off-white cases
with silver/black lables, while one has and off-white case with a silver/gold
label! All of these are from Commodore.
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago
// -------------------------------------------------------
\// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware,
\/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X,
Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A,
Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4.
Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles.
Brett,
I couldn't help myself (and besides, I won't have web-acess this
weekend) and looked already.
This is gonna be way, way, way cool.
I have some minor questions/suggestions.
1) Check those features/dates/etc I posted for the Rainbow with somebody who
actually knows. I have not done so, and they were just from my often-flaky
memory. Some real Rainbow expert should please chime in here and set me
straight on whatever I missed.
2) There actually does exist a Rainbow web site. Under construction at the
moment, its url is: http://b61984.student.cwru.edu/rainbow.htm
Can users just enter a link like that instead of a link to an image? Or can
you add a field for that kind of link?
3) How does info get edited? Is it locked once entered (to prevent
net.vandalism or well-intentioned but incorrect "corrections")? Maybe each
computer web page can be changed only by emailing you, and is put under the
responsibility of a single volunteer to make sure what's there is correct? Or
maybe just put in an edit facility so anybody who so desires can add info?
In any case, *thanks* for setting this up. I am really looking forward
to browsing this site.
- Mark
Hello all,
Just wanted to ask if anyone out there has an Intel MDS (Microcomputer
Development System). That was the 8080-based system that Intel sold for
developers to develop hardware and software based on their
microcomptuers. It ran an operating system called ISIS-II from Intel.
An interesting point of trivia is that Gary Kildall originally developed
CP/M on the first 8080-based MDS called an Intellec 800. This system
was based on the Multibus (a bus system developed by Intel and used in
lots of industrical applications of single board comptuers). If you
happen to buy a CP/M in the generic form it would run on one of those
Intelled 800.
Anyway, anyone who would like to discuss these systems, I'm game. I
have an Intellec 800 and a Series II (the successor).
I would be interested in anyone who might have for sale a set of floppy
diskette controller boards for these systems. It is a two-board set and
I need the double density version.
Thanks.
--
Dave Mabry dmabry(a)mich.com
Great Lakes Maritime Institute Underwater Research Team
NACD NSS-CDS #42872
Hi all,
I picked up a very nice Osborne 1 from a local thrift store yesterday. The
system powers up. Everything looks good. However, I don't have the boot
disk. I tried the CP/M boot disk from my Kaypro II. No good. If I
remember correctly, the disk drives on old CP/M machines are not compatible
with each other even though the binaries are. It looks like that I need an
Osborne formatted CP/M boot disk. Does anyone know where I can get one?
Also, it would be nice to get a CP/M communication software on an Osborne
formatted disk so that I can start transferring other CP/M software to it.
In the same store, I picked up a Peripheral Expansion Box for my TI 99/4A.
It comes with 1 floppy disk drive, 32K memory expansion, serial adapter,
and flex cable adapter. However, the fuse and the cap that holds the fuse
in place are gone. Does anyone know the specification for the fuse or know
where I can get a replacement for it and the cap?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
George
--
George Lin "Accelerating your business through
Network Architect, MIS enterprise document managment."
Documentum, Inc. (Nasdaq: DCTM) http://www.documentum.com
Inet Fax: mailto:remote-printer.George_Lin@4.3.8.6.3.6.4.0.1.5.1.tpc.int
My PGP Public Key for encryption is at http://george.home.ml.org/pgp.htm
Ok, what do people do about insurance of their computer collections. I
guess mine is covered on the plain old house contents insurance, but
the more I think about it the more I worry about a potential claim for
over 60 old (and I guess in the minds of insurers, obsolete) computers.
I guess insurers will want a current market value, but what is current
market value for old computers? As far as I am concerned there isn't
a market value and each computer is only worth as much as the person
selling it wants for it, or what the purchaser is willing to pay.
I have recorded the prices I have payed for most of the things I have
in my collection, but some of the rarest and most valuable to me I got
given for free. Other items I have payed a lot of money for, probably
too much sometimes when I realy want the item. In no case have I got a
reciept for a purchase.
Thoughts please.
--
Kevan
Old Computer Collector: <URL:http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/>
Please excuse the global post everyone, but Jay, if you could send me your
email address, I will email you the fedex tracking number for your terminal.
Thanks
Isaac Davis : Doing the bull dance.
idavis(a)comland.com : Feeling the flow.
indavis(a)juno.com : Working it. Working it.
I'm about to become the proud owner of my first Osborne Computer. An
"Executive" is being sent to me next week. I can't wait to get it going.
I have on old catalog from the "JMM Computer Products" from Auburn
Washington which details many accessories and cables that they sold for
the Osbornes.
I may be interested in getting a Parallel Cable, maybe an internal Ram
Disk known as "Drive C" or maybe a Bios upgrade, or some software.
Anyone have a source for these items now? Such as the Ram Disk or maybe a
Hard Disk upgrade??
BTW, I have color brochures of all three of the Osborne machines, the O1,
Exec. and the Vixen that I have stashed away since the 80's. They are fun
to look at once and a while.
At 12:48 PM 3/28/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi!
>
>If you still have this, I would definitely have a use for it... I have about
>7 Unix machines that I could use an extra dumb terminal on...
> Jay Vaughan
Jay,
It's yours. I will try and box it up this weekend and ship it out
early next week, it's not extremely heavy, but it's close. I will even see
if I can get the crayon off of it. There's not much, just a little
scribble, but everything works just fine on it. I don't have any cables to
hook it up, just the keyboard and the monitor, but it looks like it has
standard rs232 and parallel ports on the back. I knew someone could use it,
and sure hated to throw it away. I have never really shipped anything(man
i'm naieve), so if you want anything special fed-ex wise, email me and let
me know what to do.
Isaac Davis : Doing the bull dance.
idavis(a)comland.com : Feeling the flow.
indavis(a)juno.com : Working it. Working it.
I have a C Itoh Video Terminal model number CT101. If anyone can use it,
and doesn't mind paying shipping, I would be happy to send it to them. It
is in good working condition, there are some crayon marks on the side, but
I'm sure they will come off. I put it into my kids room and let them hit
the keys and watch the characters come up on the screen. They thought it
was the neatest thing. It is nothing more than a dumb terminal, but I know
some of you have mini computers and might be able to use it as a console or
something like that. Just email me and let me know, or if you need more
information. I live in Austin, TX. and would bring it to work if you are
local and don't mind picking it up. It's nothing really special, but I hate
to throw out something that someone might be able to use.
Isaac Davis
idavis(a)comland.com
indavis(a)juno.com
Greetings;
I've found/uncovered another computer in my garage, does anyone
know anything about it?
The label says Epic Computer Products, Inc.
Fountain Valley, Calif.
Model 2296
It measures about 9" wide, 7" high, and 14" deep (breadbox size)
Most of the space is taken by 2 FH 5?" drives (Qume model 592)
one drive has a disk in it which is labeled 77 tracks/side, so I
assume they are 640K or 720K.
The processor is a Z80A with 64KB, so my best guess is that it's a
CP/M system.
The back panel contains a RESET button, a TEST/NORMAL switch, a DB-25F
connector with a switch labeled toCOMM EQUIP/toPRINTER, a Centronics
connector labeled PARALLEL, and a couple of other "phone jack" type
connectors. (I don't know the name for these connectors, but they're
the same size as the one on my phone-handset connection, not the
plug-in-the-wall size) One of these connectors is labeled CONSOLE, the
other is labeled PRINTER SERIAL.
I would like to get this thing running, but don't know how to do it,
what to use, or where to connect it. Any help/info would be
appreciated.
_______________
Barry Peterson bm_pete(a)ix.netcom.com
Husband to Diane, Father to Doug,
Grandfather to Zoe now and to Tegan soon!
>Anyone know where I could find a PC-4 ??
I saw one at a workshop 2 years age. At that time they were selling for
$239.00, with a number of add on options.
They are or were available from Perfect Solutions
12657 Coral Breeze Dr.
West Palm Beach, FL 33414
1-800-726-7086
(407) 790-1070
John Moore
Anyone on the list ever heard of the Laser PC-3 and PC-4 Laptop
computers?
They were small NonDos, NonWindows computers to be used mainly as
Organizers and Word Processors. They were out about 7 years ago and sold
at Sears stores, etc.
I sure would like to get one of those machines... Especially the PC-4,
with the bigger screen. They came with a choice of Ms-Dos or Mac
connection cables and Software.
Anyone know where I could find a PC-4 ??
On 24-Mar-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
> After CoCos and 64s, next would be TI 99/4 whatevers, then Atari
>800/400 series. I was surprised to see an Aquarius WITH expansion
>module and controllers for sale a month or so ago.
Larry,
That certainly is interesting...I would have liked to have seen that one.
I picked up a second Aquarius the other day, this one from Mattel, while my
first doesn't bear the Mattel name anywhere on it, and seems to have been sold
directly by Radofin Electronics. Other than the Mattel name missing from the
case and ID label though, and the fact that the Radofin machine has an 'R'
tacked to the end of the model number, they are identical. The third variant
I've heard of, but not seen, is the PAL version sold in the UK. I don't
recall it's model number, but it's model was totally different than the 5931
model of the US NTSC version.
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985!
// -------------------------------------------------------
\// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware,
\/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel
Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-
Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4.
Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles.
(Attempting not to drop into 'blatant advertising' mode... B^} )
In preparation for an exhibit of 'Classic Computers' that I am working on
with other local collectors and the Oregon Museum of Science and History
(OMSI - http://www.omsi.edu) to be presented this November, we are planning
to reconstruct (at least one) functioning 'Mark-8' microcomputer as
originally presented in a construction article in the July 1974 edition of
'Radio-Electronics' magazine. (predating the presentation of the 'Altair'
construction project in a competing magazine by six months)
Briefly for those not familiar with the unit, the 'Mark-8' (referred to as
a "minicomputer" in the original article) is an Intel 8008 microprocessor
based unit with a clock speed of 500kHz and a maximum addresing range of 16kb.
The unit as implemented in this project features a full 'programmers' front
panel, and is constructed on six double sided circuit boards which comprise
the CPU board, parallel data input and output boards, display board,
address latch and memory boards.
The reconstruction as I will be implementing it will add a seventh board to
stand in for the original memory board which was designed for 1101 static
RAM chips which are no longer available in any quantity. The revised
memory board will substitute 2102 static RAM chips which are readily
available.
(Note: there is a possibility that we may just update the existing memory
board layout to allow the use of either RAM chip, but we are not quite that
far along as yet)
To help defer the costs of having the circuit boards made, we are offering
sets of the boards to interested parties at our cost. Currently, with the
minimum run of boards to make this project practical (6 sets) the cost per
set stands at $200.00US. Four sets are currently spoken for. To get this
rolling, we at least to find people interested in the other two board sets,
and if more people are interested we can get the price per set down even
further.
(or if someone out there works for a PC board house???)
And, since someone will no doubt ask... Yes, we do have a source for the
Intel 8008 microprocessors. The quantities are limited however, and the
current price for the microprocessor is $200.00US.
All other required parts to construct this unit are readily available
through stardard sources.
Also, through the kindness of the management of Gernsback Publications
(publisher of 'Radio-Electronics' and other related publications) we can
provide reprints of the original construction article and documentation set
for the 'Mark-8' project to anyone who purchases one of the board sets.
(with updates for the revised memory board)
If anyone is interested in joining us on this classic adventure or has any
questions, please feel free to contact me.
Thanks!
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Spence [SMTP:ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca]
Sent: Friday, March 21, 1997 8:34 AM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: Laser500
>> are you sure the VZ200 is from Video Technologies? I have one new in box
>> with 16kB RAM but there is no reference to Video Technologies on the case.
> Well, my source for this info was the March, 1983 issue of COMPUTE!
> magazine, in the article entitled "New Home Computers At The Winter
> Consumer Electronics Show":
> "....Three new computers reatiling for $99 were shown at the show,
> including the first one with color.
> The colour model is the VZ200, the first home computer from Video
> Technologies Ltd., a company with two factories in Hong Kong. Promised
> for delivery by April, the VZ200 comes with 4K of RAM, expandable to 16K
> ($45) or 64K (price not yet determined)...."
That sounds correct - HongKong is mentioned on the box. Maybe Video Technologies
was a unkown name at this time. I have the 16k-Ram Expansion card you mention
so it looks like that this announce was not completely vapourous ...
>> I have four LASER 500 with LASER Tapes. Anyone heard of these?
>
> Well, obviously I haven't. :) Is the Laser 500 an Apple-compatible
> machine, or is it something entirely different?
I will check this but I this it has a Z80 ...
>>I'd like instructions on
>how to use the SOUND, NOISE, SOUND DEF, and SOUND TEMPO extended BASIC
>commands if you have such information. Also PAINT, as I haven't yet
>figured out the syntax for that one, either.
sorry I don't have a single line of doc for my machines.
> LASER Tapes? Did the Laser use something other than standard audio
> cassettes?
No I don't think so - but they have made a special cassett-player.
Does anyone know how to load a file from a tape with a LASER?
Doug Spence
ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca
On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:54:15 -0500, "Captain Napalm" uttered:
> but you might want to add an availability field [for (in the good
Captain's case, microcomputers)], something like:
> Limited - only a single run ever made, and then, not very
> many.
How about some of the rarer minicomputers that were made in the '60s?
Beasts like the LINC-8 (of which there were only 142 built) or Packard
Bell equipment from the very early sixties count here. PDP-1.
> Rare - Only made for a year or so.
I'd put into this category the Classic DEC PDP-8, and orginal Data
General Novas. PDP-12s might go here (production run of ~1000).
> Uncommon - the less popular machines of an era.
I'm speculating at this point, but I'd tend to lump Prime equipment
and Interdata gear in this one. You can find them, but it's a lucky
find. Later Novas and Eclipses might fit here.
> Common - Fairly easy to find.
DEC pdp11 gear fits, for the most part here, although a case can be
made for the 11/20 to fall into the "uncommon" classification. This
class is especially appropriate for early- to mid- life 11s.
> Abundant - the era of the PClone. Can't go to a thrift
> store, auction, ham fest, etc without finding
> hundreds if not thousands of old units.
This is a level of concentration that you'll never find with mini-
computers. In this class, I'd tend to place late-life-cycle pdp11s,
like the 11/84 and up, and various classes of small VAXen. Note that
in many cases these machines are still performing their assigned
tasks and may not be de-commissioned for several years to come.
I hate to flog a horse that's weak, but there is more to computing
life than microprocessors. Whilst I don't disagree that the micro-
based machines should be preserved (they should), I hope that folks,
through their study of machines' history, become aware of what is
now _distant_ history, even though it only happened 25-35 years ago.
Bitmapped displays and typewriter keyboards are nice, but it's also
good to sit in front of the blinking lights and work switches to
program the machine.
______________________________________________________________________
| | |
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA |
| mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | |
| http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 |
|________________________________________________|_____________________|
Hi folks.
The computer encyclopedia seems to have survived the weekend and
is ready for new entries. So far six machines have been
cataloged. Here's your chance to show off what you know about
your obscure machines (and help justify all the work that went
into this thing).
Go to the CCL site (http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html)
and click on the Classic Computer Encyclopedia. Then just go to
Add a computer. Or just browse around and see what you think.
Bill Whitson
ClassicCmp "owner"
bcw(a)u.washington.edu bill(a)booster.u.washington.edu
Hi,
Simply, I am looking for URL's of collectors who document their
collection on the Web. For some time I have had page on my Web site that
lists other classic computer collectors who have web pages that
document their collection. I am now in the process of revamping my
collection web site and I would like to improve the list of the
collectors web pages I have. The URL for this new page is:
http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/collection/other_collectors.html
If you have a web page that documents your collection and I haven't
already got it then please drop me a note and I will add it to the list.
Regards
--
Kevan Heydon
Old Computer Collector: <URL:http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/>
>What about machines built at prototypes only (PERQ 2T4, PERQ3A,
Tiger?
>Tandy Deluxe Coco, etc). Some of those are very difficult to
find.
Don't forget the Atari 1400, 1450xld, etc, which exists as
prototypes only.
Absolutely. It never fails to amaze me that some 1980's home
micros
(particularly Sinclar ZX80's, ZX81's, etc and Commodore 64's)
still fetch
quite high prices second-hand, while I am often _given_
minicomputer
equipment.
It's a memory/nostalgia thing. When I was a young boy, I got
access to a bunch of early micros (Ohio Scientific, Exidy Sorcerer, Kim
-1, etc). Now I'm older and want own things from my youth. ;-)
-Matt Pritchard
At 05:54 PM 3/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
> Uncommon - the less popular machines of an era. Usually
> have to hunt around, but persistence pays off.
> Color computers, Coleco Adams and what not
> fall into this catagory (IMHO).
>
> Common - Fairly easy to find. Apple ][s, Amigas would be
> here (again IMHO).
Ummm... my intention here is not to flame, but Tandy Color Computers are
*much* more abundant than you realize, mainly because (and I've learned
this thru observation and personal experience) that one usually notices the
most what one owns or has owned.
<TANGENT>
Dumb kid: "What the heck kinda car is that... it looks funny."
Grandpa: "Son, that's a '47 Pontiac (or Mercury, or... insert personal
favorite here) with a xxx V-8 engine & bla, bla, bla. I used to have one of
those in my heyday, when I was a ..........."
[[a week passes, same car]]
Dumb kid: "What the heck kinda car is that... it looks funny....."
</TANGENT>
My point is there was an immense production of the Color Computer (there
must... I own 3 myself) and in my little town of 14,000, I can name people
who still own and use them, but the last Amiga I saw in this town was
almost 10 years ago. Mind you, I'm not saying they're not around... I'm
saying I don't see/take note of them, because I prefer Color Computers...
You have a good suggestion, but I think that instead of just an arbitrary
listing of who notices what or what might never be seen in a particular
region (Amigas in Sault Ste. Marie, Color Computers in the Ukraine, ad
nauseum...) that it should be based on actual production statistics when
available.
I can give you one bit of information: The Tandy Color Computer line was in
production longer than any other 8-bit (and some 16-bit) home computer.
Anywho, that's my $0.00000002 (that's all it's worth), FWIW, which ain't much.
Thanks for the bandwidth,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig,
Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better.
zmerch(a)northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk*
| until I find some new wisdom to share.
Hello,
I have decided to sell my Tandy Model 100. It comes complete with both
the owner's manual and service manual, a soft vinyl case, modem/phone
cable and cassette cable. Works great!
Since I didn't know what to ask, I went ahead and listed it on
AuctionWeb. Here's the link to bid and get more info, see picture, etc:
http://www.ebay.com/aw-cgi/item.cgi?item=lvp42398
Thanks and any questions, please feel free to ask.
Greg
--
http://www.calpoly.edu/~gmast
______________ NOTICE ___________________
My email will be down from 3/25 to 3/29.
The system may not be receiving mail.
If you send a message I won't be able to
reply until 3/30. If you don't receive a
reply, please resend after 3/29.
Thanks, Greg
_________________________________________
Due to popular demand digesting has been enabled. Furthermore,
it has been changed since this morning from weekly to daily
distribution. Digests will be sent at 23:59 each day.
Bill Whitson
ClassicCmp "owner"
bcw(a)u.washington.edu bill(a)booster.u.washington.edu
ClassicCmp Regular Posting
Mailing Lists and How to Talk to the List Robot
This message is posted with frequency proportional to
subscription rate (or monthly).
Mailing List Basics
A mailing list is a simple device which takes an e-mail and
redistributes it to a group of people. People can add and
remove themselves from the distribution list by Subscribing
and Unsubscribing. When you send a message to the list, it
is first examined by the robot for key words that tell it
to process an automatic funtion (like help, subscribe,
unsubscribe, etc). If the message does not contain a keyword
it is sent to the distribution list.
How to Talk to the Robot
There are a few List Processor commands that you might want to
use. To send a command to the list processor, write a message
to listproc(a)u.washington.edu. In the body of the message (not
the subject line, that is) write one of the following commands.
Then send the message.
SET CLASSICCMP MAIL ACK
Tells the robot to send you a copy of messages you
write to the list. This is the default.
SET CLASSICCMP MAIL NOACK
Tells the robot NOT to send you a copy of messages
you write to the list. I don't recommend this.
SET CLASSICCMP MAIL DIGEST
Tells the robot to send you a digest of messages
rather than each as it is posted. With this option
you will get a weekly bundle of messages and keep
a nice, tidy in-box.
SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address
Subscribes you to the list.
UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address
Removes you from the list.
That's the basics. If you need to know more just drop me
a line at bcw(a)u.washington.edu.
Bill Whitson
ClassicCmp "owner"
bcw(a)u.washington.edu bill(a)booster.u.washington.edu
In the few days this group has been going, I have been taken down memory lane
over and over again!
I would like to propose that we begin documenting all the great classic
computers of the past. I suggest it be a SIMPLE compilation such as:
Name/Model
Manufacturer
Date released/stopped
RAM/ROM included
Languages included
Ports included
Peripherals offerred
etc.
Of course the exact categories need to be decided by discussion on this mail
list.
And somebody would need to tabulate the info (then publish the list monthly).
Finally, an "expert" committee for those items "in dispute"!
Well ... what do you think?
John Hamilton
hamijohn(a)aol.com
"Old computers never die, they just fade away bit by bit!"
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Newsgroups: comp.os.cpm
>From: gee(a)linda.teleport.com (Chuck Gee)
Date: 21 Mar 1997 10:48:15 -0800
Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016
S100 cards for sale. Make offer.
=================================
This is my second posting of this ad. The first time around, about
1/2 of the cards found new homes. Since these are the leftovers, I
am willing to consider any reasonable offer.
Most have no documentation, but have been removed from working
systems (mostly from a BBS I once ran).
If you live in the Northwest, these are located in Corvallis, Oregon,
and you can get to them any weekday. Otherwise, UPS ground prefered.
quantity part# mfg. desc.
======== ===== ==== =====
3 INTERFACER 3 GODBOUT/COMPUPRO 8 CHANNEL SERIAL 1/O
(1 interfacer 3 technical manual included)
----------------------------------------------------------------
1 PWA.05-00060 MOUNTAIN COMPUTER 100,000 DAY CLOCK
----------------------------------------------------------------
4 RAM 21 GODBOUT ELECTRONICS 64K X 16 RAM CARD
----------------------------------------------------------------
1 CPU 86/87 GODBOUT 8086-1 CPU CARD
----------------------------------------------------------------
2 SYSTEM SUPPORT 1 COMPUPRO I/O, CLOCK,MATH, INT, ETC..
----------------------------------------------------------------
1 UFDC-1 COMPU/TIME FLOPPY DISK CONTROLLER
----------------------------------------------------------------
5 SCP400B,C SEATTLE COMPUTER MULTIPORT SERIAL CARD
----------------------------------------------------------------
1 Suntronics Co., inc CLOCK/CALENDAR
================================================================
I also have the following manuals that I will send off for the
price of shipping, or will include with some/all of the above
cards.
Digital Research CP/M-86 Operating System User's Guide
--
Digital Research Concurrent CP/M User's Guide/Utilities Guide
--
Gifford Computer Systems Multiuser Concurrent DOS User's Manual
(includes a pile of 8" diskettes)
=================================================================
6 assorted S-100 motherboards
=================================================================
A "pile" of 14 assorted S100 cards that have never been used by
me and are untested. I picked them up (used) for future use, but
never got around to firing them up. Their condition is unknown,
and I'd like to sell them as one batch. They've been sitting in my
warehouse for 15 years, and are pretty dusty.
=================================================================
Please contact me at gee(a)teleport.com if interested in any of the above.
Thanks...
==========================================================================
For an Online, Interactive Science-Fiction Adventure, please point your
browser to: http://www.teleport.com/~gee/oiin.html
==========================================================================
--
gee(a)teleport.com
Hope someone can use this - before it gets chucked that is 8-)
BC
I'm not totally sure yet another ad hoc list is in our best
interests. There are some Web sites dedicated to Classic Computers
that list some/most of the old sets and what went with them
(peripherals, memory, etc.). If you feel that a seperate list is
still a good idea, BMG, but I'd like to see a list of "history" Web
sites and how good you think they are. Some, like Rich Polivka's
page, are dedicated to a single machine (our trusty TI). I imagine
other machines have something similar.
--
**********************************************
* David Ormand *** Southwest 99ers *
* dlormand(a)aztec.asu.edu *** Tucson, Arizona *
**************************** TMS9900 Lives! *
Y'know, every once in a while you shoot out a message and
immediatly realize you just did something embarrasing. And
there's not a damn thing you can do ;).
I just said to thank Dan Tucker for the html work on the
comp list. And within seconds of pressing send remembered
that actually it's a shared mailbox and the guy I've been
chatting with for that last few days is, in fact - Brett
Crapser. So, everybody say "Thanks, Brett!" And I'll go
bury my head in the sand :x
Bill Whitson
ClassicCmp "owner"
bcw(a)u.washington.edu bill(a)booster.u.washington.edu
Would anyone like to have (ie, for FREE) a Compaq Model III?
It's one of those newfangled 286s, but it does have a cool fold-out LCD
screen. The 5 1/2 floppy works but the hard drive is doubtful.
If you're interested e-mail me to figure out how to get it to you.
Brian
bboys(a)mcja.com
-----Original Message-----
From: mhop [SMTP:mhop@snip.net]
Sent: Friday, March 21, 1997 8:21 AM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Atari 800xe ?
>> Common European Computer (esp. Germany):
>>
>> Atari 800XE (common in eastern europe)
>>
>
> Really? There was the 800, 800lx, and the 130xe. I think I heard of a
> 600ex game system, but I never heard of an 800ex. What are its specs?
I have a 800XE new in the box for ex. east germany. It looks like a 130XE but
has only 64kB. If you are interested in further details I can check the instuction booklet.
Anyone interested in 800XEs? I can try to get hold of some ...
>> Laser 50, Laser 2000, Sinlair QL,
> ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Now THESE machines interest me. Why? Because I am the proud owner of a
> Laser 3000 from Video Technologies Ltd. Are the 50 and the 2000 from
> the same company? The only other machines from them that I've heard of
> are the VZ200 and the Laser 128 (I think they were?).
are you sure the VZ200 is from Video Technologies? I have one new in box with 16kB RAM but there is
no reference to Video Technologies on the case.
I have four LASER 500 with LASER Tapes. Anyone heard of these?
> There are a lot of very common (in Europe) European machines I'd like to
> get my hands on, perhaps someone should set up an intercontinental
> computer trade route. :)
VERY GOOD IDEA - I got some of my computers from the US ...
If anyone is interested in trading (Computer and Video-Games):
http://hal.do.isst.fhg.de/~walgen/Museum/Gallery/Gallery.html
I also have a small flea-market for old computer at
http://hal.do.isst.fhg.de/~walgen/Museum/HCM.html
Furthermore it could be interesting to make a list of common european
computers that are possibly rare in the US. Here a first try - please
make comments on the rarity of these computers in the US:
Common European Computer (esp. Germany):
Atari 800XE (common in eastern europe)
Commodore C-116
Commodore C-16
Commodore VC-20 (has not VIC-20 as label)
Philips VG 8010, VG8020, NMS8280 (all MSX)
Philips G7000 (Video games)
Schneider CPC 464, CPC 664, CPC6128, Joyce PCW 8256
Sharp MZ-700, MZ-800
Sinclair QL
Sony HitBit HB-75D (MSX)
Triumph Adler Alphatronic TA
Robotron KC85/3 (from ex. east germany - Z-80 clone)
Common European Computer (esp. France):
Matra Alice, Alice 90
Thomson TO7, TO7-70
Thomson MO5, TO8, TO8D
Common European Computer (esp. Netherlands):
MSX Computer. esp. Philips
> Common European Computer (esp. Germany):
>
> Atari 800XE (common in eastern europe)
>
Really? There was the 800, 800lx, and the 130xe. I think I heard of a
600ex game system, but I never heard of an 800ex. What are its specs?
mhop(a)snip.net
On 20-Mar-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
>There were many "Speech Synthesizer" modules released. Most of them had to
>do with entertainment packages, but there also many for education as well.
> Education packages included the Scott, Foresman series were the computer
>would say the numbers and letters to children, and for entertainment, there
>was Alpiner, Parsec, M*A*S*H, Star Trek, Microsurgeon, and many, many others.
Actually, I was referring to the modules that were to plug into the Speech
Synthesizer itself, beneath the flip-top. Numerous references mention them,
and though on my Synthesizer, there isn't a connector in it for the module, I
was wondering if maybe some early examples were shipped with one. Even the
Speech Synthesizer manual mentions the cartridges.
>There are more than 373 words to choose from. In fact, with the Terminal
>Emulator II cartridge, you have unlimited "text-to-speech" capability.
> Literally anything you type in can be spoken. Sometimes you would have to
>make the the pronunciation spellings different in order for this to work, but
>mostly, it was fine. Extended BASIC was the only cartridge that limited
>"text-to-speech", but even then TI later released a "text-to-speech" diskette
>which would allow the user to type in anything (much like the Terminal
>Emulator II, and Speech Editor).
I got the 373 word limit from the Synthesizer manual, though I've not
counted up the words in the list it shows. I plan on playing with TE-II once
I recieive the RS232 board for my PEBox. It'd be interesting having it speak
the ascii data as it came across!
>I just picked up a Speech Editor cartridge for $20 from someone who was
>selling it along with other old TI stuff. Expect to pay this, or more for it
>- as it is rare. I just got it, and I can't even use it because I don't have
>the manual.
That's fine with me...BTW, here's another question regarding the GROM
cartridges. When did Atari begin making the arcade game cartridges for the
TI-99/4A? Most people admit that TI didn't allow much 3rd party software to
be produced initially, yet here is one of their competitors writing programs
for it. I have the Donkey Kong and Pac Man cartridges, and they are both
dated 1983.
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985!
// -------------------------------------------------------
\// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware,
\/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel
Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-
Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4.
Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles.
In a message dated 97-03-16 18:18:32 EST, Bryan Nicalek writes:
> The TI-99/2 was never actually produced. Only pre-production units were
ever
> made. This was after the TI-99/4A, back in 1983. A whole line of
> peripherals were planned to be offered, including the new HEX-BUS
interface.
> The 99/2 was black and white only, 40 columns, and limited but a very
> portable computer. Only rare photos have ever been seen.
The 99/2 did make it out the door - I bought one in a MSP Target. The hex
bus peripherals also were produced, and worked with the CC40 (handheld from
TI).
John Hamilton
hamijohn(a)aol.com
"Old computers never die, they just fade away bit by bit!"
> My nephew owns an Atari 800XL computer, and I was wondering if anyone
> knows of any source for basic programs he could type in and learn from.
> I think the basic programs should be short and easy for a 7th grader to
> learn from. Thanks for any help. I will be writing up a mastermind program
> for him and maybe a tic-tac-toe game for him. Anyone have ideas for other
> games that can be written in BASIC and are easy to understand and short?
> Thanks in advance.
Used book stores. They often have old computer books lying around which
they'll sell to you for a couple dollars, and it shouldn't be too hard to
find books of basic games. Heck, I have a book of 33 games designed for
PET, Apple ][, or TRS-80 BASIC that I could send to you, if you want.
They're pretty, uh, basic, but taking them apart isn't a bad way to learn
BASIC.
I really should sleep more,
--
Ben Coakley coakley(a)ac.grin.edu
530 User anonymous access denied.
http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley for fiction, etc.
In a message dated 97-03-20 13:55:54 EST jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
wrote:
> I guess my base fear here is that if we actually managed to get the
> media's attention, a few major stories like this might drive the equipment
> costs to high (note I said COSTS, not VALUE) that only deep pocketed
> people with no real interest in the equipment other than its percieved
> 'value' would be able to afford to obtain it!
Well said. Publicity is not always a good thing.
imw(a)agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) also wrote:
Me, I'm doing new board layouts and am planning to reconstruct a 'Mark-8'
or two... Anyone else interested in a board set?
I might be, post some details.
Lou
Captain Napalm sez:
>It was thus said that the Great Christopher Heer once stated:
>> Wow. 72 pin? Are you certain? In any case, ISTR older Zeniths taking proprietary
>> memory.
> Yup. Without any SIMMS, the system just sits there producing vast amounts
>of nothing quite fast. With memory installed, I get the bad CMOS error,
>then vast amounts of nothing quite fast.
Well that's pretty ironclad. I doubt you're having a memory problem.
>> > Then the screen goes blank and the system just sits there, fans spinning.
>> How long? I mean, how long have you let it wait? If it's mis-configured on the
>> hard disk, it could take simply ages to time out.
> Oh, two minutes maybe. Nothing very long.
Let it go longer. Sweartagod I've seen PC's take 15 minutes to error out. Also, if
there's a hard disk controller installed, yank it. It may make it time out faster.
And as someone else mentioned, Zenith was fond of using Ctrl-Alt-Ins as the keystroke
combination to get into setup. Give that a go.
--
Christopher D. Heer ORACLE Corporation
Network Engineer III 203 N. La Salle Avenue #2000
Work: (312) 704-1676 Chicago, IL 60601
Fax: (312) 726-4635
Email: cheer(a)us.oracle.com Visualize Whirled Peas
Captain Napalm sez:
> At an auction this past Saturday, I picked up a Zenith Z386-20 (okay, it
>might, just might, be 10 years old). It looks to be a decent system, and
>today is the first day I've been able to play around with it, as I had to
>scrape up some 72-pin SIMMS for memory.
Wow. 72 pin? Are you certain? In any case, ISTR older Zeniths taking proprietary
memory.
> Upon turning the unit on, I get (if I recall - it doesn't stay very long
>on the screen):
> Bad CMOS configuration blah blah yada yada
> Then the screen goes blank and the system just sits there, fans spinning.
How long? I mean, how long have you let it wait? If it's mis-configured on the
hard disk, it could take simply ages to time out.
> I have some questions about the unit I figure I'd through out here before
>going to alt.folklore.computers.
> 1. It doesn't seem to even look at the keyboard. Do Zeniths use
> a proprietary keyboard, or is the POST routine not getting past
> the bad CMOS?
Zeniths were, ISTR, slightly touchy about keyboards, but they didn't have to be
proprietary. Odds are something else is hanging it.
> 2. The computer itself has a daughter board that contains the
> ROMs, a SmartBattery (DALLAS - DS1260-100 / 9816 / 3V
> Lithium battery), an Intel 8742 (Universal Peripheral Interface
> 8-bit Slave uController) and other neat features (the 8 LEDs
> are a nice touch). The Smart battery can be removed, but I'm
> wondering if it's a common item and is easily replaced.
Depends on how you define "common" and "easily," but yeah, you should be able to
find it and replace it. They last a long time, though; I'd resolve the config
issue before replacing it.
--
Christopher D. Heer ORACLE Corporation
Network Engineer III 203 N. La Salle Avenue #2000
Work: (312) 704-1676 Chicago, IL 60601
Fax: (312) 726-4635
Email: cheer(a)us.oracle.com Visualize Whirled Peas
