- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 09:24 PM 7/10/97 -0700, you wrote: >dirt cheap at swap meets and thrift stores and sell it on the internet >for enough profit to break even on the hobby. It was the only way I >could get my wife to tolerate it. (Just in case you're wondering I make I'm the same way, or at least, I would be, if I could bear to part with anything! 8^) >it a point to sell stuff at cost on this discussion because, let's face >it, we're all friends, and I don't like profiting from friends). (No, likewise. If I've got something I don't think is of interest here, I'll put it on the AuctionWeb and let it go for whatever the market will pay. Otherwise, (like the PCjr? carts, which I need to post a message about) I'll just let things go for what they cost me. >Eventually I will HTML-ize it and put it up in a web page for people to I'm working on mine, slowly but surely! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Old Microprocessors

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <33c69abc.15979193(a)smtp.ix.netcom.com> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > Some days ago, I mentioned that there was a UK company that used to > advertise old microprocessors like 9900, Z800x, 32032 and other stuff. > > I've just dug up my old issues of Elektor and found the company. It's > Viewcom, at Plaistow in London. > > Perhaps Enrico might want to check if this company still exists and > its tel/fax number: I've been looking for a 10MHz Z8001 (the one found > in Ciarcia's Trump card project in Byte). They're still going. Viewcom Electronics, 77 Upperton Road West Plaistow London E13 9LT England. Retail Shop 139 New City Road Plaistow London E13 9PX England Telephone : 0181-471-9338 Fax : 0181-552-0946 I've dealt with them, and had no problems. If you intend to collect your order, 'phone first, and they'll sort the bits out for you. > > The April 1991 issue of Elektor advertises Viewcom as carrying stuff > like the 9900, 9995 (both TI 16-bit microP). There's even the AMD 9511 The TMS9995 is still listed at \pounds 69.85 (OUCH!) Z8001B is \pounds 11.96, Z08001-10PSC is \pounds 16.90. The other devices you mentioned are no longer listed, alas. > which (if I'm not mistaken) is one of the first math copros for > microcomputers. Indeed it is. I have a CCS 8711 card for the Apple ][ that uses this chip. > Ben -tony

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Datamaster troubles

by rcini＠msn.com

My Datamaster Troubles... Well, I'm reviving my Datamaster. Last year, it worked fine (I at least could get into Basic). This year, I can't even get it to boot. I have no manuals for the darned thing, so I have no idea what the numbers on the screen during the POST mean. I have one reverse-highlighted number: "09" and I'm assuming that this is a hardware failure code. I have the "Diagnostic" diskette, but since I think that the floppies are not working (or the diskette is now bad), it's useless. I've done the usual things like cleaning and reseating boards and cables, with no effect. Any clues?? ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <Pine.SOL.3.95.970710235812.10063G-100000@typhoon> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > > Enough of this blathing...anyway, you got my idea. I buy them for > > quality even they're outragously outdated. The newer ones even Compaq > > and Toshibas, Sony is now showing QC problems and sunk down as well. > > Recently a association already issued several critations warning > > buyers not to buy certain models from them. > > Boy - DO NOT get me started on THIS subject! Nor me. One of the reasons I use classics is that they're so well made and so reliable. A few weeks back I mentioned at a computer club that a new hard disk that I'd run for less than 25 _hours_ was already giving me trouble but that a 25 _year_ old minicomputer on the same desk was still going strong. > That is a given. 8 bitters rule. Even 16 bitters rule. Tho I do have > some 4 bitters - they don't rule - they just barely survive 8-) Err, don't forget the HP Saturn, which is used in almost all their calculators (including the HP48). That's a 4-bit machine at the hardware level (and sort-of 64 bit at the software level - strange chip). And I've found 4 bit microcontrollers in keyboards, 1-line displays, disk drives (not the controllers - but handling the stepper motor, drive ready, that sort of thing), and probably more besides. > There are probably more 8 bit MPU and CPU's in existance now than > Intel CPU's. They are EVERYWHERE. Kind of like Candid Camera. Where Don't forget the Microchip PIC (which has an 8-bit ALU and 12 or 14 bit instructions). Those turn up in just about anything nowadays. There's even one in my Laserprinter.... > you least expect it. Cars, phones, thermostats, elevators, games, man TV's, VCR's, CD players, monitors, IR remote handsets, toys, etc... > you name it - SOMEONE put a 6502/8085/6809 into it! Or an 8048, 8051, ST6, PIC, COP4, COP8, 7810, or something custom. > BC -tony

28 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

FAQ addition: Repairing Capacitive Keyboards

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB20578947C(a)RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > REPAIRING CAPACITIVE KEYBOARDS > v1.0 7/10/97 Kai Kaltenbach > > ---> What are capacitive keyboards? > > The vast majority of capacitive keyboards were and are manufactured by > Keytronics of Spokane, Washington. The mechanism is really quite > simple. A keypress pushes a foil circle onto the surface of a printed Note that the foil (actually a metal layer) is on the inside surface of a plastic disk on the end of the key plunger. It doesn't actually make contact with the PCB > circuit board, thus completing the circuit and registering the keypress More correctly it increases the capacitance between 2 tracks on the PCB. > to the computer. Capacitive keyboards are very reliable; however, they > will fail over time even if unused. > > Each foil contact circle is backed by a cylinder of PVC foam. The foam > is subject to environmental deterioration. Once the foam loses its > elasticity or dissolves entirely, the keys will stop working because the > foil circles will no longer make good contact with the PC board. > Various classic computer systems, such as the Processor Technology Sol, > exhibit this problem after their 20+ year lifespan. I've once seen a fault where the metal layer vanished, leaving the foam intact. No idea what happened, but it didn't work, of course. > > ---> How do I tell if I have a capacitive keyboard? > > Just remove a key cap -- if there is a separate spring under the key > cap, around the plunger, it's extremely likely that it's a capacitive > keyboard. They won't always say Keytronic on the outside of the > keyboard housing. These keyboards are _everywhere_. I've seen them 'made' by PERQ, Apricot, Acorn, Tektronix, FTS, and probably more. The only problem is that some of those are classics in themselves, and probably shouldn't be raided for spares. > > ---> What do I need to start a repair job? > > First you need a set of replacement foam pads. Each foam pad is a > cylinder about 1/4" in diameter and 3/16" long. There is a semi-rigid > clear plastic circle attached to one end of the pad, and a foil cylinder > attached to the other end. > > The only toosl you'll need are a #1 Philips screwdriver and a very small > standard screwdriver such as those pen-clip types frequently included in Every Keytronics keyboard I've dismantled has needed a smaller Phillips screwdriver (size O?) to remove the PCB from the keyframe. > computer tool kits (plus whatever tools are necessary to remove the > keyboard from its enclosure). > > ---> Where do I get replacement pads? > > If you're a perfectionist, you can order replacement pads from Keytronic > Corporation (http://www.keytronic.com/). However, it's much easier to Seriously? Do they do other spares as well. There's a couple of custom chips (see below) in almost all of these keyboards, and a source of spares would be handy. > simply find a capacitive keyboard in your local computer junk/surplus > store and strip it for replacement pads (see above for info on > identifying such keyboards). -----> So, What are the Custom Chips ? There are, in general 2 off 20 pin custom chips in a keytronics keyboard (some later ones have a single 40 pin chip, but I know nothing about that). 22-908-3B 8-channel sense amplifier 1 : Row 0 2 : Row 1 3 : Row 2 4 : Row 3 5 : Reset/sync output 6 : Row 4 7 : Row 5 8 : Row 6 9 : Row 7 10 : Ground 11 : Out 7 12 : Out 6 13 : Out 5 14 : Out 4 15 : Out 3 16 : Out 2 17 : Out 1 18 : Out 0 19 : Reset in 20 : +5V Outputs are believed to be open-collector 22-950-3B keyboard column decoder/driver. 1 : Col 8 2 : Col 9 3 : Col 10 4 : Col 11 5 : Latch Clock 6 : Select 0 (LSB Input) 7 : Select 1 8 : Select 2 9 : Select 3 10 : Ground 11 : Sync Input 12 : Col 0 13 : Col 1 14 : Col 2 15 : Col 3 16 : Col 4 17 : Col 5 18 : Col 6 19 : Col 7 20 : +5V -tony

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <Pine.SOL.3.95.970710232706.10063D-100000@typhoon> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > > of the old machines. I collect, but I admit is has to make some sense to > > me as in useful or have some specific linkage to my place in this > > history. > > But this is a collectors list 8-) We all collect from that which we know. Not necessarily. I've bought things at radio rallies (hamfests) because 'it looked interesting'. Only later did I discover what I really had. If I'd always waited to find out what a particular item really was, then I'd probably have missed all the interesting stuff, and have a totally trivial collection. However, it does help to have some idea as to what things are. And to know what they look like from all angles :-) > You must have been - what - 8 years old 8-) Great story! I think we all > have one of those - where everybody kinda stares at you - wondering - > What the Hell is THAT? What are you doing with that - THING? Yep, got a load of them. Taking a trolley piled high with computer parts across Cambridge on a weekday afternoon is good for that :-). Or the time I carried a DEC Rainbow on a train - VR201 in one hand (using the built-in handle), CPU under the other arm, and keyboard in my pocket. Dismantling the CPU mid-journey (it needs no tools) added to the amusement. Then there was the time I carried an IBM PC/AT box on a train. It got the comment 'That's one hell of a laptop' :-). Or the time I was carrying a Creed 7E (baudot printing terminal) and was asked if I had a pen. My reply was 'no, but I have a teleprinter' :-) Still, what's wrong with being slightly mad? > > BC > > -tony

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <Pine.SOL.3.95.970710191732.26431A-100000@typhoon> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > > First - if you don't want to hear my opinion - stop now! I am going to > get pretty detailed about what the list is/should be about. I may hurt > some feelings - but well hell - that's life! Is it time to start a classic computers meta-list to discuss what should be on the classic computers list ? > Currently, this list is set on the aquistion of hardware. One reason > is to get it before it's GONE. Another, is the ECONOMY of collecting. > (I buy it for 10 and sell it for 15 Sam 8-) The point being, in two > years, if we did nothing - you may NEVER be able to buy it because > someone junked it! Nothing wrong with making hay while the sun shines. Absolutely. In some cases, the number of remaining machines of a particular type can be counted on the fingers of one hand - in unary :-). If we don't grab them when we can, then information on these machines will be lost for ever. > > The history of computing doesn't lend itself to the IMMEDIACY of hardware. > The history of computing IS. There is no cost in learning it, > understanding it, and aquiring it. I think I disagree here. It's a lot easier to figure out the history of a machine while the people who used it for real work (and even better the people who designed/built it) are still alive, and can still remember the machine. So there's some urgency here, but less than the 'Here's a 1-off prototype that will go in the skip if you don't get it today' type of thing. A lot of computer history, particularly over the last 20 or so years has not (IMHO) been adequately recorded. What I'd love to see would be complete documentation on all the classic computers - how the hardware worked, how the software worked, when it was introduced, why it was introduced, what went wrong, what should have been done differently, what was good about it, etc. But to do that for just _one_ machine would be a major undertaking (I've tried writing some hardware docs, and it takes a long time!). But some of that info is likely to die with the _designers_, not with the machines, alas. > I would probably die if someone wanted to give me the Intellec MDS that > Gary wrote CPM on. That is too much to hope for in this world 8-) Aside : It's probably possible to find a similar machine (although not _THE_ one) if you hunt for long enough. I've found an CS8i and an MDS800 second-hand. > I also get a little perturbed when people state "This Weekends Haul". The main reason I get little from these messages is that the situation is very different in different countries (Acorn machines are lot easier to find in the UK than in the States, while CoCo3's are almost unknown over here). And of coure prices are very different as well. > BC -tony

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Modem Collection

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <33C673A3.6EA5(a)rain.org> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > Just curious (again!) if anyone is collecting the early modems used on > computers and what might have been the earliest commercial phone modem. I've got a few (I'm interested in telegraph and telephone history as well as computers, but my main collection is computer-related). It's not a large part of my collection, though. In the UK, modems were _rented_ from the GPO (== post office, who also ran the telephone system) at one time, like all other telephone equipment. Some of these modems are interesting technically - the earlier ones were about 14" square and 6" high, and contained plug-in modules for the PSU, modulator, demodulator, and controller. It was all discrete components (no chips), and some of the control used PO 3000-style relays (similar to the ones used in telephone exchanges). The demodulator was strange. It filtered the incoming signal (a multi-stage LC filter housed in a tobacco-tin sized box!), and then mixed it with a local oscillator to shift the frequency up. The output of that was filtered again, and fed to a 2-diode discriminator. The output of that was buffered and became the data output. It was basically a superhet FM receiver modified to work at the right frequency. Another strange GPO modem was the 13A. It's a 1" (approx) high plinth that was fitted under a Type 746 'phone that had extra 'voice' and 'data' buttons fitted. I know nothing about the circuitry in that one, but it's a rather neat unit. There were also things called 'isolation boxes' that were used to prevent faults in the user's equipment damaging the modem (or worse still the 'phone line). Typically they contained a number of zener diodes from each line of the RS232 connector to ground (2 diodes in inverse series per line), and some 50mA fuses in series with each line that would blow if there was overvoltage on that line. Such things are probably useless now, but I like to have all the bits of a classic setup, including little details such as this. > I have several devices that are called modem eliminators and I believe The term 'modem eliminator' normally meant 'null modem cable', and was a passive device. -tony

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

History of Video Games (RE: "Bally Astrocade")

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Yep, that was Cinematronic's excellent vector version of Space War, released in 1978. It was two-player only, and had several innovations, including the ability to shoot off part of your opponent's ship, and the selection of multiple game options at the start of your game (e.g. positive/negative gravity, invisible sun, etc.) The upright cabinet was huge, almost double-wide, but I would dearly love to come up with the cocktail version (http://brain.usask.ca/arcade/spacewar.htm) It'd be a nice complement to my Computer Space. Kai > ---------- > From: Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers > Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sent: Friday, July 11, 1997 11:05 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: History of Video Games (RE: "Bally Astrocade") > > On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > > > Studio II, which were introduced simultaneously in 1976. The first > > vector graphic arcade game was Lunar Lander in 1979, followed by > > Asteroids later that year. The first (and only) vector graphic home > > I seem to recall spending many many hours (and quarters) with my > roommate > playing a vector graphic arcade version of Space War when we were > fresh > out of the USAF back in 1978 and spending loose hours at the Saint > James > Infirmary in Sunnyvale. > -- > Ward Griffiths > "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within > the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." --Claire Wolfe >

28 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

Modem Collection

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> writes: > Just curious (again!) if anyone is collecting the early modems used on > computers and what might have been the earliest commercial phone modem. I have a few, but not what I would call "early". An old Omnitec 701A (s/n 3) acoustic coupler that I used to use with a Teletype ca. 1978 (still worked when I tried it about a year ago, too). Also some S-100 modems, including a couple each of PMMI MM-103 and Hayes Micromodem 100, and what I am guessing is an earlier (1978) effort by D. C. Hayes called the 80-103A. > I have several devices that are called modem eliminators and I believe > these are basically serial cable boosters to increase the permissible > cable length. It depends. They may also provide clock signals for synchronous DTEs (as would ordinarily be done by the modems). -Frank McConnell

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Old Microprocessors

by bluesky6＠ix.netcom.com

Some days ago, I mentioned that there was a UK company that used to advertise old microprocessors like 9900, Z800x, 32032 and other stuff. I've just dug up my old issues of Elektor and found the company. It's Viewcom, at Plaistow in London. Perhaps Enrico might want to check if this company still exists and its tel/fax number: I've been looking for a 10MHz Z8001 (the one found in Ciarcia's Trump card project in Byte). The April 1991 issue of Elektor advertises Viewcom as carrying stuff like the 9900, 9995 (both TI 16-bit microP). There's even the AMD 9511 which (if I'm not mistaken) is one of the first math copros for microcomputers. Interestingly, there's another ad. for a little machine called the midi65, which uses a 6501 (the number was re-used by Rockwell for a dual-65C02-on-a-chip implementation) with LCD display. Of course, then there are the usual surplus ads from Display Electronics (VAX11/750 for 3900 pounds sterling and the Tatung PC2000 a big brother of the CP/M Einstein for 299 pounds sterling) and J&N BULL Electrical (which offers an Atari 65XE computer for 45 pounds sterling). Ben

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

IBM minis still humming

by william＠ans.net

Yesterday, I finally received the chance to examine a family of computers that has been bugging me for a while. In the mid to late 1970s, IBM introduced a family of minis designed to kill the PDP-11, or so they thought. The series/1 is a bit different, in that they are not designed to run COBOL applications in a business environment. They are also very modular, something that other IBM offerings are not. I saw about 25 of the big beasts, all humming away at thier duties, and of course, now want one (love at first sight, it happens alot with collectors). Unfortunately, I am still lacking just about all technical information about the family. Has anyone on the list ever use one of these things? What operating system did it use? Just how good (or bad, probably) are these things? Oh, sorry about repeating the modem information! William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Paper Tape

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

As most of you probably know, some of the old printing terminal (teletype) units could utilize paper tape; the tape could be punched with a program, and hence used as a program storage media. I'd be interested in getting a bit of the tape; not real long (say, 4-6 feet), just for show-and-tell purposes. "Already punched" would be better than "unpunched" ("unpunched" might just look like a roll of adding machine paper-- big deal), but I'd take either. If somebody has some of this to spare, please drop me a note e-mail; I'd appreciate it. Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

Modem Collection

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> > Just curious (again!) if anyone is collecting the early modems used on > computers and what might have been the earliest commercial phone modem. > I have several devices that are called modem eliminators and I believe > these are basically serial cable boosters to increase the permissible > cable length. My guess is that the earliest modems were accousticle > (sp?) modems where the coupling was where the phone was laid onto the > modem rather than a direct connect to the computer. Was there anythin > earlier or other type of device? Early modems were mostly acoustical as it was a way of avoiding the BELL TELEPHONE CO tarriff and interconnection restrictions. There were also direct connect bell103 is well known of them. They go way back, to the old rtty machines used during WWII maybe before. Yes, those would have vacuum tubes. The modem eliminators were rs232 or current loop to rs422 which could be used up to several thousand feet or more. These were not modems per se but level translators to a format that worked well on hard copper pairs at what would be then called high speeds (4800 ->38.4++). Allison

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

"Bally Astrocade"

by manney＠nwohio.com

Speaking of video games, I have 2 different sources which say that the first video game was 1)Pong 2) Asteroids. I personally believe asteroids, as the game (in my recollectopn, at least) used vector graphics, which should be faster and simpler than Pong's raster image. ...Or am I all wet? Anyone know? (Trivia -- What does "Pac" in Pac-man stand for? answer on request.)

28 years, 9 months

3
2
0 0

History of Video Games (RE: "Bally Astrocade")

by jscarter＠worldnet.att.net

At 05:06 PM 7/11/97 +0000, you wrote: >Neither - The first arcade videogame was Nutting & Associates Computer >Space, designed by Nolan Bushnell in 1971, who later designed Pong >(1972) with the profits, and founded Atari. The first home videogame >was the Magnavox Odyssey 100, in 1972. The first ROM cartridge-based >home video game title is co-owned by the Fairchild Channel F and the RCA >Studio II, which were introduced simultaneously in 1976. The first >vector graphic arcade game was Lunar Lander in 1979, followed by >Asteroids later that year. The first (and only) vector graphic home >video game was the GCE/Milton Bradley Vectrex in 1982. > >Kai IIRC, Odyssey 100 was a simple pong unit. The one you're refering to was just "Odyssey." James jscarter(a)worldnet.att.net

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

farewell and COCO question and Definicon stuff and simpson meter.

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-07-11 10:29:07 EDT, you write: << On the contrary, I think that people are unsubscribing because in this mailing list about collecting Classic icons there is NOT ENOUGH discussion about the history of the computing boom and the hows and whys that led to it. >> I am sorry, but I was not aware that this list was about collecting classic computers. I thought this list was about classic computers, of which collecting is a part. I am not interested (well, not as much) in the "hows and whys". I want to find them, use them, fix them. I don't really collect them simply to collect. You might argue that I had to collect one to use it, but thats not necessarily the case. I could have bought my Kaypro new and simply still be using it. If this list IS about COLLECTING, then I will unsubscribe myself as well. On something more hardware related, I have a Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer Controller, Cat. No 26-3129. I am assuming it is a disk controller, but can someone give me some confirmation on that? Also, if someone still needs the definicon board stuff, I finally got my PC back together, so I can read the 5.25" disks. And while I am babbling, not really classic computer, but classic test equipment related, I have a Simpson 303 that I have never been able to get to work. It seems to need the battery, and it is a rechargeable model. Kelly

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Panasonic HandHeld Update and FINAL COUNT!

by manney＠nwohio.com

Please reserve 2 handhelds for me -- thanks. Manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Actually, I collect for the sake of collecting, I make no money off it, ask my wife :) I collect so in 10 more years, I can play with toys I played with 20 years ago. That and to watch everyone freak when they see my dinosaurs alive and feeding on a daily basis. On a subnote, you all are intelligent people, but man, I think some folks need to lighten up and enjoy the water. But I guess, one part of me just can't relate to, is the "cost of downloading" mail, but I suppose there are situations where that is a problem, me, I have a cablemodem, so im spoiled rotten. As far as knowing what we all have, maybe we should add to our rescue list, a non fancy, listing of what everyone has, not for trading, but just as a reference. Then when I'm at my next flea market...etc. I can say, "Hey, I know John dosn't have a Coco1, maybe he'd like one, it's 2 bucks, Heck, I just grab it." Cya in the funny papers. Bill G. ---------- > From: Brett <danjo(a)xnet.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View > Date: Thursday, July 10, 1997 8:34 PM > > > First - if you don't want to hear my opinion - stop now! I am going to > get pretty detailed about what the list is/should be about. I may hurt > some feelings - but well hell - that's life! > > First from Enrico - > > > On the contrary, I think that people are unsubscribing because in this > > mailing list about collecting Classic icons there is NOT ENOUGH > > discussion about the history of the computing boom and the hows and > > whys that led to it. To just limit the discussion to the mere hardware > > is narrow minded and shows the kind of attitude which leads to consider > > "the other" (the one which begs to differ) as an enemy or at least as > > an intruder. The "dont' bother us as we know what we should be talking > > about" attitude might be legal and understandable but is it wise? > > No it is NOT wise! However - it is *as you said* understandable. Each > person is a collection of feelings and memories, sometimes refered to > as a *pile of the past*. Each of us has had different experiences in > EVERYTHING we do. No two people view life the EXACT same way. > > Currently, this list is set on the aquistion of hardware. One reason > is to get it before it's GONE. Another, is the ECONOMY of collecting. > (I buy it for 10 and sell it for 15 Sam 8-) The point being, in two > years, if we did nothing - you may NEVER be able to buy it because > someone junked it! Nothing wrong with making hay while the sun shines. > > The history of computing doesn't lend itself to the IMMEDIACY of hardware. > The history of computing IS. There is no cost in learning it, > understanding it, and aquiring it. > > Now, if everybody on the list had an Apple, an Amiga, an Altair, an Imsai, > a DEC 11/24, an IBM 360, two Commodore 64s, a BBC, etc,etc,etc THEN we > might sit down and discuss the history. We can discuss it now - but I > would rather be gathering all the hardware I can get my hands on NOW and > think about the history. > > I would probably die if someone wanted to give me the Intellec MDS that > Gary wrote CPM on. That is too much to hope for in this world 8-) > > > As already said here several times, computers are bits of metal and > > plastic. They are important for the sentiments and the feelings they > > managed to raise in each and everybody (and soul) of us. You keep your > > hardware (and I will keep mine so that I can leave it to future > > generations) but I will keep my principles and if this will mean I > > will have to do without you, then (I will be sorry but) be it. > > As said before, we are all different. I will gladly discuss the history > of computing. However, if I stray from why I think Turing was a genius > to WOW I JUST GOT MY RL02 TO BOOT MY 11/23 - you will have to forgive me. > I'm just that kind of guy. > > On the other hand tho - WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? I have seen > the messages from you in the last two weeks and you have not mentioned > *history* at all! You have mentioned the social and psychological impact > of why we collect individual machines - it the same with cars - it the > same with ANY collectable. But it is NOT what I call - History. Nobody > NEEDS a twenty year old computer! Not in the USE sense - they NEED them to > remind them of the good times in the past. That spark of WONDER or GLORY > or FULLFILLMENT they got from that item. The same as ANY collectable. If > you have no sense of wonder or glory or fulfillment - you don't collect > for the sake of collecting - you are collecting for the ECONOMICS of > collecting. > > On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > > > You're absolutely, terribly correct. In our benighted shortsightedness > > we have been ignoring the core, the soul, nay, the very existentialism > > of the historical man-machine interface and the personal hygiene of Gary > > Kildall. These bits of metal and plastic have become a zen-like cyborg > [snipped but saved] > > becoming no more than Waldos while Charles Babbage's heart is ripped > > from his chest by ravens dark as toner, eight claws upon each talon. > > > > Kai > > Beautiful! I have not (except for Bill's bathroom story) been so > wonderfully entertained and amused by posts to the list than this! > You've gone up a notch in my book. > > Glenn Roberts wrote: > > > > I for one certainly support Bill's efforts to keep this list on target. > > Enrico replied > > Yes, agreed, BUT the pint being made here is WHICH is the target? Just > hardware OR history of the machines as well? > > Pint! Oh point 8-( > I think Bill summed it up - go ahead - but don't *expect* anyone to > discuss it with you. The list hasn't been around long enough to develop > a *personality*. (Did I speak to late!?!?) > > The list doesn't HAVE a POINT. But the people on it do. > > We gather here and there in the faint glow of Cathode Ray Tubes connected > throughout the world by the wonder of modern man - The Internet - and > discuss computers that are older than 10 years. Some will never again > be seen as useful. As some say - "They can have my DEC, when they pry it > from my cold dead hands!" Some will use them, some will sell them, some > will lurk in the dark corners, some will boil to the surface with an > explosion of estatic joy and/or humor, some will solder little > thingmajiggies together, some will droll on and on about some favorite > piece of hardware or software, some will leave and others will come. It's > called "community" - the one thing man has over all other animals. It > isn't easy, and it isn't hard. There is give and take. Those who give > constantly will be consumed, Those that only take - will eventually be > bored. > > The problem - currently - is Enrico. You have not either explained what > you want (I certainly don't understand) or what you want isn't here. If > you can explain - in terms we can understand - I am sure that your desires > can be fullfilled by this list as well as Sam's (sorry Sam - I see you as > a hardware mogul - more more more 8-) It is usually best, I have found, to > walk into a group and listen to what is being said. If an opportunity > presents itself, interject a question. (I remember that you did this very > well Enrico) Then if the current discussion recognizes your question, in > a positive way, you should then be permitted to state your case. This did > not happen! You should then wait for another opportunity. There is no > rule that if someone shows interest, you can not start you OWN > conversation. Just don't keep it on the list - take it to EMail. If > something important is discussed in private EMail, by all means, if all > concerned agree - put it on the list. This then becomes more than a > single observation and then the impact upon the group has more weight. > > I also get a little perturbed when people state "This Weekends Haul". > I really don't have the time or inclination to read about all the neat > stuff I DID NOT get. I understand the joy and amazement of those of you > who do make great deals (Sam Grrrrrr....) but it only makes me feel more > or less - left out! I usually get one machine (my biggest haul was 12 > clone motherboards - not even NEAR on topic!) and then gather all the > info I can to get it to work the way it was supposed to. Then every six > months I get antsy and fire them all up - just to make sure - and then > spend another month getting them all to work right again. And two months > paying off the electric bill. BUT - I DO want to know what everybody has! > If I need help - I will know who to go to! Right now - I just fire out a > question and get the responses. That is because this is a community. > > Things to remember - every community has a town drunk, a town clown, > a town cop, and a town fool. It wouldn'tbe a community without them. > > BC

28 years, 9 months

6
5
0 0

What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by allisonp＠world.std.com

28 years, 9 months

4
3
0 0

What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by rcini＠msn.com

Allison: >>Seriously I've put may posts here anout the history and lineages of many of the old machines. I collect, but I admit is has to make some sense to me as in useful or have some specific linkage to my place in this >>history. This is so true. In fact, this is how I started collecting. Admittedly, I don't remember many of the early computers; I was too young to remember any of it first-hand. When the Altair came out, I was 8; Bill Gates was 20. I only got to "know" Gary Kildall and Ed Roberts through the books that I read as background for my MBA business case on Microsoft and the computer software industry. Back then, I used the Commodores. In high school, I used {shudder} the Mac (and understood that better). In college, I used PCs, but didn't understand the architecture. I started collecting Commodores because this is the machine that I grew-up on. Then, it snowballed. The Tandy Model 1; Model 100; Datamaster; Apple IIs. Now, almost anything. Since I'm behind the knowledge power curve, I have a lot of catching-up to do! I love hearing about other people's hauls. It inspires me. It makes me want to take back more room in the basement than what was alotted to me by "the boss." It's about the elegant simplicity of design; the basic, nuts-and-bolts usefulness. It's about runnung an OS and an application in 4k of RAM. It's all about preserving the early computer history, so that people like me, people on the fringes of early computers, people who know nothing about where their P233 came from, can see what it was like in the stone-age of computing. Just my $0.02. ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET e-mail: rcini(a)msn.com - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

classic software for sale

by manney＠nwohio.com

Please send me a pricelist. Also, where (physically) are you? I'm in northern Ohio. Thx Manney

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

c16/Plus4

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >User support here was either through PLUG (Plus/4 Users Group), or Jim Hehl in Anchorage. Plug provided a list of European distributors and Jim was into program conversion (Such popular 64 programs like Speedscript were converted).< Has anybody heard from Jim Hehl recently? Last I heard, he was burned out of his cabin by an Alaskan wildfire! That was probably 1-2 years ago now. Does he still produce for Jack Vanderwhite's publication? >The major bummer about European Plus/4 stuff is alot of it is compressed and locked into PAL mode and thus unviewable on NTSC displays. (Jim & Jack Vandewrwhite had converted some though, I think they are available on funet.fi's FTP., I think the series is called 'ceepee4' something...)< If this stuff is available somewhere, I'd be interested in a full address. Gil Parrish <

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

HHC

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Remember, there are 400 of these HHCs available. Tell a friend!< Sorry, I just got here. What the heck are you talking about?

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

C65 and other commie oddballs...

by more＠camlaw.rutgers.edu

OK OK I can't take it anymore... Being partial to commodores, I can't help but DESIRE to own a C65! Anyone got one? Or better yet, anyone got one they'd sell???? On a side note, I was re-reading a review of the Amiga 4000 and the article mentioned a commodore palmtop that was based on a "PC/CHIP" cpu, had 2 megs of memory and ran Microsoft Works or somehting like that (Oh yeah, it had 2 PCMCIA slots too) I know this (probably) never made it to production but I also know that many a freaky contraption was hauled from the dumpsters when commodore went belly up... (C65's, 128 Laptops, etc.) So, anyone got any oddball commie stuff? LeS more(a)crazy.rutgers.edu PS I missed the supposed free-for-all that took place outside the commodore building in West Chester when they folded. I was just there not too long ago; apparently QVC has gutted the building.... :(

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

farewell

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Enrico, You're absolutely, terribly correct. In our benighted shortsightedness we have been ignoring the core, the soul, nay, the very existentialism of the historical man-machine interface and the personal hygiene of Gary Kildall. These bits of metal and plastic have become a zen-like cyborg interface which has allowed us to ignore the realities of our Jungian existance. Those among us who have perused and then obviously ignored the message of the volume of our times, Gibson & Sterling's _The Difference Engine_, and shall surely rotate on the firey rotissery of Dante's twenty-ninth buglia of the pit, which of course is reserved for those who have committed the terrible sin of coveting thy neighbor's Imsai. How can we claim to discuss the so-called 'collecting' of so-called 'classic' computers when our hypocritical censorious self-righteousness has made us purblind to the fact that 'collect' also purtains to a short prayer comprising an invocation, petition, and conclusion! And 'classic' from the Roman 'classicus' identifies us as citizens of the first rank, who should know better! What this obviously boils down to is the age old conflict of materiality and the health of the soul cleaved by the sword of societal amiguity. In an awful orgy of idolitry we have in a very real and illusive sense integrated these actual bits of, as you put it, metal and plastic into our flesh itself, becoming no more than Waldos while Charles Babbage's heart is ripped >from his chest by ravens dark as toner, eight claws upon each talon. Kai > ---------- > From: e.tedeschi > Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 1997 1:07 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: farewell > > Bill Whitson wrote: > > > > Hi Jim. > > > > > I agreed with the new rules until the bit where nobody can say > they disagree. > > > That, and I really don't have time to read the volume coming from > this list. > > > Farewell all, then. If you have questions about apple2 GSs or > Tiger Learning > > > Computers, please feel free to e-mail me personally > > > > Sorry you feel this way. The point wasn't really to prevent you > from > > disagreeing - it was to prevent a flood of responses which might > have > > bogged down the list for days. The whole idea of the new rules was > to > > curb the absolute flood of unsubs that have resulted for the most > part > > due to the constant bickering. We dropped from over 220 members to > 160 > > over the last month. I'm sorry to see you go. > > > > > Bill, please unsubscribe me. > > > > OK. > > > > Bill > > On the contrary, I think that people are unsubscribing because in this > > mailing list about collecting Classic icons there is NOT ENOUGH > discussion about the history of the computing boom and the hows and > whys > that led to it. To just limit the discussion to the mere hardware is > narrow minded and shows the kind of attitude which leads to consider > "the other" (the one which begs to differ) as an enemy or at least as > an > intruder. The "dont' bother us as we know what we should be talking > about" attitude might be legal and understandable but is it wise? > > As already said here several times, computers are bits of metal and > plastic. They are important for the sentiments and the feelings they > managed to raise in each and everybody (and soul) of us. You keep your > > hardware (and I will keep mine so that I can leave it to future > generations) but I will keep my principles and if this will mean I > will > have to do without you, then (I will be sorry but) be it. > > enrico > -- > ================================================================ > Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. > tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile > website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi> > ================================================================ > visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm> > >

28 years, 9 months

8
11
0 0

PDP-11 simulator plus V5, V6, and V7 Unix

by dougdu＠MICROSOFT.com

Thought this might be of some interest to list members... - Doug > ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/sim/README > > This directory contains computer simulators developed by Bob Supnik > (bob.supnik(a)ljo.dec.com). > > In ./sources > > sim_2.2d.tar.Z - the simulator sources and documentation > > In ./software > > os8swre.tar.Z - sample OS/8 software and a user license from > DIGITAL > > rdosswre.tar.Z - sample RDOS software and a user license from Data > > General > > uv5swre.tar.Z - sample PDP-11 UNIX V5 software and a user license > from > SCO > > uv6swre.tar.Z - sample PDP-11 UNIX V6 software and a user license > from > SCO > > uv7swre.tar.Z - sample PDP-11 UNIX V7 software and a user license > from > SCO >

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

classic software for sale

by pcoad＠crl.com

I have a bunch of classic DOS software, manuals, and disks for sale. Many are still in shrinkwrap. The list is too large to post to the list. Email me for a complete list including prices and terms. A short selection is below: A04 Visicorp VisiCalc (198?) manual, disks, CDEX training for VisiCalc, shrinkwrap A10 Microsoft Multiplan (1982-3) (green packaging) manual, disks, plastic case, shrinkwrap G10 IBM Technical Reference (1981) hardware reference manual for PC (includes BIOS source) manual, 3 ring binder, slipcase G11 IBM Hardware Maintenance and service Personal Computer - PCjr manual, slipcase C06 IBM Disk Operating System by Microsoft v1.10 (1982) manual in 3 ring binder and slipcase, disk, quick reference card D04 Ashton-Tate DBase III v1.1 (1984) complete (silver cardboard cover slip case) There are a good number of DOS packages, early Microsoft packages, office productivity packages, a few development tools, and some junk. Nearly all are classics. --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Saved From The Dumpster Collection: http://www.crl.com/~pcoad/machines.html

28 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

Zenith Portable Computer ZP-150

by josh＠netins.net

I sure do! Used to own one! It is a laptop simmilar to tandy's 600, except without a floppy. Uses microsoft "Works" integrated software. Nice 80X16 screen. Uses 10 AA batteries, yes TEN! Needs special cable to hook to printer, but shouldn't be hard to make one. Nice to use for a remote (very dumb) terminal. Has internal 300bps modem. Has a few softwares, like the Model 100 does. Hope it helps! Josh M. Nutzman +----------------------------------------------+ |"Life is like a river, you go with the flow...| | but in the end you usually end up dammed." | | -The Red Green Show | +----------------------------------------------+

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

FAQ addition: Repairing Capacitive Keyboards

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

REPAIRING CAPACITIVE KEYBOARDS v1.0 7/10/97 Kai Kaltenbach ---> What are capacitive keyboards? The vast majority of capacitive keyboards were and are manufactured by Keytronics of Spokane, Washington. The mechanism is really quite simple. A keypress pushes a foil circle onto the surface of a printed circuit board, thus completing the circuit and registering the keypress to the computer. Capacitive keyboards are very reliable; however, they will fail over time even if unused. Each foil contact circle is backed by a cylinder of PVC foam. The foam is subject to environmental deterioration. Once the foam loses its elasticity or dissolves entirely, the keys will stop working because the foil circles will no longer make good contact with the PC board. Various classic computer systems, such as the Processor Technology Sol, exhibit this problem after their 20+ year lifespan. ---> How do I tell if I have a capacitive keyboard? Just remove a key cap -- if there is a separate spring under the key cap, around the plunger, it's extremely likely that it's a capacitive keyboard. They won't always say Keytronic on the outside of the keyboard housing. ---> What do I need to start a repair job? First you need a set of replacement foam pads. Each foam pad is a cylinder about 1/4" in diameter and 3/16" long. There is a semi-rigid clear plastic circle attached to one end of the pad, and a foil cylinder attached to the other end. The only toosl you'll need are a #1 Philips screwdriver and a very small standard screwdriver such as those pen-clip types frequently included in computer tool kits (plus whatever tools are necessary to remove the keyboard from its enclosure). ---> Where do I get replacement pads? If you're a perfectionist, you can order replacement pads from Keytronic Corporation (http://www.keytronic.com/). However, it's much easier to simply find a capacitive keyboard in your local computer junk/surplus store and strip it for replacement pads (see above for info on identifying such keyboards). Note: If you're stranded on a desert island with only your computer and a screwdriver, you can get the important keys working again by using pads from the numeric keypad, which is usually in good shape because it's not used very much. ---> OK, I've got all of the necessary items, what are the repair steps? 1. Remove the keyboard from its enclosure. Place on an open workspace. Putting a pad of some type underneath may help avoid marring of the keycaps, but in any case be careful to prevent static discharge if your keyboard model has ICs on the PCB. A ground wrist strap is recommended. Lock up the cats. 2. With the keyboard face-down, remove all of the screws on the back of the PCB (there are a lot!) Don't worry, nothing is going to fall apart when you remove the PCB. 3. Remove the PCB. Place to the side. If it shows any signs of dirt on the contact side, you'll want to clean it with a non-residue, non-lubricating contact cleaner. 4. Identify pads that need replacement. If you're replacing all of the pads, you can skip this step. First, look for any foil circles that are damaged. Then, while looking down the length of the keyboard on the back side, press each row of keys and make sure that each foam pad protrudes sufficiently and cleanly out the back of each key plunger. The most-typed keys are the first to go (return, space, A, E, etc.) When in doubt, replace a pad -- that's a lot of screws to remove to do this over again! Replace pads one at a time. 5. Carefully remove the keycap and spring. There are actually keycap removal tools available, but whatever you use, just make sure to pry >from both sides at once, not just one side. Don't bend the key sideways. 6. Holding the keyboard perpendicular to the table, place the Philips screwdriver into the back of the key plunger and push gently to pop the plunger out the other side. 7. Pick up the plunger. Remove the foam cylinder by inserting a fingernail under the foam cylinder's clear plastic circle. A tiny bit of leverage and it'll pop out. 8. Put the replacement foam cylinder in place. Gingerly use the very small standard screwdriver to pop the clear plastic circle into the plunger by pressing around its outside edge. Be careful not to damage the foam or the foil circle. 9. Replace the plunger in the keyboard chassis. 10. Replace the spring and keycap. Use the very small standard screwdriver to press on the edge of the bottom of the plunger to firmly seat the key cap. 11. Repeat as necessary. Note: If you're skilled at delicate work and have various sized tools available, you can probably replace the foam pads from the back without removing the keycaps, but this is not recommended for beginners.

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

farewell

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

I agreed with the new rules until the bit where nobody can say they disagree. That, and I really don't have time to read the volume coming from this list. Farewell all, then. If you have questions about apple2 GSs or Tiger Learning Computers, please feel free to e-mail me personally Bill, please unsubscribe me. -- Jim Strickland jim(a)calico.litterbox.com -- "...It tells me that goose stepping morons like yourself should try reading books instead of burning them." -Dr. Henry Jones Sr. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade

28 years, 9 months

7
9
0 0

1975 PE Altair Article Scans

by rcini＠msn.com

Bill: >>But don't look for it yet. It has been removed for review while I contact >>Ziff-Davis about reprint. I already spoke with the current owners of PE who >>apparently don't own the rights to the old issues. Probably be a couple >>days but I anticipate they'll be happy to let us use it. I hope that they do let us archive them. Frankly, I didn't focus on the fact that the archived article may be considered a "republication". Sorry about that. Does that mean that we would also have to contact Ed Roberts to get his permission to archive a copy of the construction manual? I'll send-up a DS-form on the article scans this afternoon. ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking

28 years, 9 months

3
2
0 0

"Bally AstroBreast" and TI collectors

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 12:48 10/07/97 -0500, you wrote: >The machine started off life as the Bally Professional Arcade (Yes, Bally >the pinball & arcade game people (not Bally the bra manufacturer... I >always thought it'd be cool if they were the same company... imagine the >possibilities) HA!HA!HA!HA! Yes, the pinball game where instead of side buttons you have..(immagine). HE!HE!HE! Ok, now a serious IN TOPICS question: Anyone collecting Texas Instruments minis (990 family) and related peripherals like Omni? 810 Printer? Let me know. Bye ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html

28 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

Floppy Disk Media

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Unsurprisingly, the majority of floppy disk magnetic media was/is made by the leaders in audio magnetic media. The two historic giants in that field were BASF and 3M, who independently invented magnetic recording technology. Personally, my favorite floppy brand is Verbatim DataLife Plus. They use a Teflon media coating and are virtually indestructible in normal usage. If you spilled something on one, you just cut the side of the jacket, pulled out the media, washed it in warm soapy water, put it back in another jacket and you were good to go. Kai > ---------- > From: Marvin > Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 1997 10:36 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Floppy Disk Media > > Just curious here, does anyone have a list of the MANY brands of > floppy > disks and who the actual manufacturer might be? I got intrigued > several > years ago with the many floppy disks that were available and have been > just setting them aside as I saw interesting ones. So far, I haven't > bothered to catalog them but it is interesting to see the different > jackets. >

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Classic Computer Rescue List Update

by idavis＠comland.com

It has been a month since I started the list, so I guess it's time for an little update. We have quite a few entries so far, and the list really looks good. Only two of us (Brett and myself) have volunteered to have our vehicles repainted, stickers applied, and flashing lights installed. Just keep in mind that this list is strictly that, just a list. No one is comitted to do anything, but we are all here in the interest of preservation, so anything you can do will help. I, as well as everyone on the list has a limit to what they will/can haul and ship if necessary. We all pretty much have the same goals and limitations. If you are not on the list, and want to be added, feel free to email me. On a side note, I have also added a second page with a list of items that have been saved. If someone contacts you through the list and you manage to save something, go ahead and let me know. I will add it to the page. If you cannot get to the web page, or know someone who wants a copy, I can email it to you/them. Thanks for all of the entries. Isaac Davis | Don't throw out that old computer, idavis(a)comland.com | check out the Classic Computer Rescue List - indavis(a)juno.com | http://www.comland.com/~idavis/classic/classic.html

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Gateway 2000 Buys Amiga

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 09:48 PM 7/9/97 GMT, you wrote: >the Amiga? Even the video editing/effects market seems to have turned >towards Apple machines. And even Apple itself is finding selling >difficult in the face of the Wintel machines. I'd be willing to bet that GW2K is after the video toaster technology (yes, I know it's a separate company). It is a pretty hot system, at least according to friends who do that sort of thing. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Gateway 2000 Buys Amiga

by BNICALEK＠aol.com

Collectors: All this talk about the Amiga's got me thinking about what I read in the "Amiga Format" magazine (which they still have subscriptions for). Apparently Gateway 2000 has purchased the Amiga name, but from what I hear, has no real plans for implementation on a new product at the moment. What there are however, are old A1200's or something like that (I'm not to familiar with the Amiga line) going for sale as "remanufactured". Also curious to see if people out there would be interested in seeing Amiga create a new "home computer" which would incorporate educational, productivity and entertainment titles into one package with Internet connectivity. Any thoughts? You can write me personally if you prefer. Bryan Nicalek bnicalek(a)aol.com

28 years, 9 months

7
9
0 0

"Bally Astrocade"

by coslor＠pscosf.peru.edu

Hello: I recently picked up two old game system units that i really don't know a whole lot about. I am hoping some you you may be able to fill me in on soem more information. 1) This unit is label "APF tv fun" pn the front. It has a knob with four game selection possibilities, on/off switch/ start button, angle setting, bat size setting, and ball speed setting. It appears this is an old Tennis/baseball type of game unit. It also appears that the actual controllers on on the main unit in the form of knobs. It saw it was made in Japan by APF Electronics, Inc. although I can't find a year. Could anyone help there? It also says underneath TV FUN Model No. 401A and seriel number is S- 052193. Finally it has the TV channell selector (3 or 4) and battery storage unit to run it off batteries. Could anyone please give me some more information on this, and also info. on if it might have some value out there or interest from any of you? 2) This looks like a 'golden oldie'. This also is a self contained game unit. It came complete with two odd looking joysticks, although the machine has ports for four joysticks. On the front it has a calculator looking button pad and to the right of that is a cassette insertion place along with an eject and reset button. Behing all of this is a storage compartment for several cassettes, complete with hard palstic cover for this area as well.I also have an overlay that says Astrocade BASIC (c) 1978 Astrocade, Inc.? This apparently goes with a cassette for the unit that says " BASIC, Computer Programming Cartridge with Built-In Interface (c) 1981 Astrocade, Inc. " On the cassette is a small like and an audio cassette Jack (in/out) -- also came witha small microphone.On the underside it says Astrocade Arcade Model ABA-1000-2 with a seriel # of 020777 and Astrovision, Inc, Garner, Iowa also on the bottom. Again, would any of you know more information on this unit, and if it might have some value out there to collectors? Are any of you interested? I only paid $5 for both of the above items, and I guess I am willing to entertain propositions if anyone wants them. Please let me know. Oh, yes, are there other cassettes available for the Astrocade? Are the above units very common these days? Thanks, CORD COSLOR //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor(a)bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*//

28 years, 9 months

3
2
0 0

Zenith Portable Computer ZP-150

by dastar＠crl.com

Anyone know much about the Zenith Portable Computer ZP-150? I'm possibly buying one this weekend and want to know a little about it before I go through all the trouble. Thanks! Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

"Bally Astrocade"

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> 1) This unit is label "APF tv fun" pn the front. It has a knob with fou > game selection possibilities, on/off switch/ start button, angle settin > bat size setting, and ball speed setting. It appears this is an old > Tennis/baseball type of game unit. It also appears that the actual > controllers on on the main unit in the form of knobs. It saw it was mad > in Japan by APF Electronics, Inc. although I can't find a year. Could > anyone help there? It also says underneath TV FUN Model No. 401A and that's the oldie of the bunch! Early game machines from the mid '70 were the tennis/pong type and used a few chips. their logic was a mix of digital and analog. My guess would be 75-77 timeframe. It would be some years before the tvgames would go the microprocessor route to get the the first ataris and company. Allison

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Crappadore 64

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 03:19 PM 7/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >> That's funny...a computer facelift. > > Actually, a number of companies offered the same type of thing for the >ZX-81/Timex-Sinclair 1000. It was to give the computer a real keyboard And the Atari ST -- to put it in a tower case, among other things. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

3
2
0 0

Heathkit Hero 1/2000

by rcini＠msn.com

Just out of curiosity (isn't that a great lead-in??), how much would an old Heath Hero 1000/2000 robot go for?? They seem relatively scarce, but I would like to get one to support my renewed interest in robotics. Just what I need, another hobby... ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 9 months

3
2
0 0

(fwd) FS: Commodore SuperPet SP9000 (Runs Fine) $100 (fwd)

by dastar＠crl.com

Maybe someone is interested in this. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Chris Glackin" <cglackin(a)msn.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: FS: Commodore SuperPet SP9000 (Runs Fine) $100 For Sale: Commodore SuperPet SP9000 ($100) For sale by private owner Located in Farmington Hills, Michigan Prefer Pickup/Cash Only $100 PLEASE DIRECT ALL INQUIRIES TO: CGLACKIN(a)MSN.COM 1 Commodore Superpet SP9000 Turns on and seems to run fine * I can't verify the operation of any of the edge connectors due to lack of accessories, but I have turned it on and written some simple BASIC programs that run fine in 6502 and 6809 mode Has both 6502 and 6809 boards with toggle switches on side Green Monochrome trapezoid shaped screen works fine Original piezo speaker sound still works great Keyboard works great Case is in pretty good condition * No dents or major marks, a few minor scratches that could be touched up The 'hood' lifts fine, doesn't even squeak, and has the original stick inside to hold it up - just like a car hood (anyone ever make a miniature drop light for the Pet series?) ** I do not have ANY manuals or accessories for this computer When this computer is turned on, a menu comes up with a list of programming languages to select from. At the top of the screen it says: WATERLOO MICROSYSTEMS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I learned to program in 6502 assembly language on the Pet 2001 w/ a 4040 dual disk drive unit in 1981. I never even knew of a SuperPet until I found this one waiting for the Sanitation Engineers on a curb a few years ago. I thought it was the regular old Pet when I saw it from afar. So I picked it up and carried it home - an excruciating half mile journey. If you are one who remembers lifting a Pet, you know what I'm talking about! I figured I'd relive some of the ol' days and actually put some sort of working system together, but there just isn't any time left in this SDK-A-MINUTE computer world. I have met others online that love their Pet's -- and other various computer antiques -- and seem to enjoy keeping them running, so perhaps this SuperPet can find a much more deserving home. The serial number is SP0000284. Is this the 284th SuperPet off the line? Out of how many? Is it related to HAL? If anyone knows the answers, I'd love to hear them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- E-MAIL: CGLACKIN(a)MSN.COM Commodore SuperPet SP9000 for $100 -- Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Amigas and PETs...

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

RE: CD-32 and Amiga w/drive on the side... The CD32 is actually an Amiga 1200 not the more limited 600. The 1200 has the more advanced AGA graphics chipset (and a 68020 processor). There are expansion units (SX-1 I think is the name of them) readily available to bump the CD32 up to a full-fledged 1200. You can easily adapt an IBM clone 'box' power supply to use on the 500. I have my Amiga 500 and hard drive wired into one. (the hardest part would be finding an Amiga 500 power connector) The 500 is a great computer and one of the easiest to expand, (except for the 2000). You can find alot of good projects on the internet for it. ===-===--===---=-=-=-=-=-===---===--- >From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> >Subject: Pet Serial Numbers >Just curious if anyone knows what the starting serial number was for the >Commodore Pets? So far, the following are the earliest Pets I have. I >believe these both came from the local university at one of their sales. My oldest is in the 14000 area IIRC. It is an original 8k unit (the tape drives with it were butchered Sanyo units, so it was'nt too late in the productiion run.) --==-=-=-=--=--=--=====--=--==--=-= >From: Cord Coslor <coslor(a)pscosf.peru.edu> >Subject: c-16 and Plus/4 >I remember seeing a post here a week or two ago asking about the >availability of Commodore 16 and Plus/4 cartridges. I response, I >gathered, was that they were not very common here in teh United States, >and seemed just altogether uncommon.... maybe even some doubt as to the >actual number of titles created. >Recently, I picked up my first c-16 / Plus/4 cart -- it was Scott Adams >adventure game Strange Odyssey sold by Commodore. This titles was not >mentioned by those on this listserv. It was one of the set of eight I had bought (all with the commodore brand name on em), I probably didn't mention it cause I don't remember all the titles... (I am reconing they are in the outside storage closet which is currently inhabited by wasps...) *bummer* >Anyway, I also have a TON of other titles that I have been using for some >time on my PC emulator called Minus/4. A very good emulator. So, I guess >what I am finally getting at is it seems there actually WERE a lot of >different titles created for these machines, though I do not know the >actual numbers of titles, quantities, or popularity in the US. Could >anyone out there fill us in on some facts? Besides Magic Carpet Software, Data-20 (responsible for the +3 productivity programs in the +4s ROM), and Progressive Software (Superbase is available for the Plus/4!) I didnt hear of all that much stuff put out in the U.S. Europe on the other hand has had a great following with the Plus/4 and C-16, most of the programs I would safely guess are from there. User support here was either through PLUG (Plus/4 Users Group), or Jim Hehl in Anchorage. Plug provided a list of European distributors and Jim was into program conversion (Such popular 64 programs like Speedscript were converted). The major bummer about European Plus/4 stuff is alot of it is compressed and locked into PAL mode and thus unviewable on NTSC displays. (Jim & Jack Vandewrwhite had converted some though, I think they are available on funet.fi's FTP., I think the series is called 'ceepee4' something...) >I just don't have the experience in these machines needed to accurately >inform others. >Finally, does anyone have a c-16 or Plus/4 machine for sale or trade. I >just have this one cartridge, but I have a burning desire to acquire one >or more of these machines. Please let me know. Actually.... YES! I picked up one a couple weeks back and will sell it to you for the price I paid ($2.95) plus shipping (USPS, $10 or so...) It comes in its box with a Power Supply (I don't think I have any extra manuals, sorry). I just powered it up and it does work (though there is a strange wire hanging out; looking on the motherboard I would assume it was for a utility cart or something. Regardless it doesn't affect operation.) E-mail me if interested. Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

HHC

by dastar＠crl.com

Yea! Thanks to Ted Birdsell's reservation we reached the 100 mark! (This is like a Jerry Lewis telethon.) C'mon, let's squeeze out 50 more! I know you all can do it!!! :) I'm thinking about putting an advertisement on some usenet groups to get some more response. I'm going to advertise them at $15 plus shipping. Please do not get alarmed. Of course I will be making a profit. Remember, there are 400 of these HHCs available. Tell a friend! Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

(fwd) Petition for UNIX Src License - status

by bluesky6＠ix.netcom.com

I thought this would be interesting. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- In alt.folklore.computers, wkt(a)hennry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) wrote: %The petition urging SCO to make source code licenses for 6th and 7th Edition %UNIX (and their relations) is going well, with over 200 signatures on the %petition so far. However, we still need your support to encourage SCO to act. % %If you ever used UNIX on a PDP-11, own a copy of John Lions Commentary %(legal or otherwise), believe that these systems are historically %interesting, or even if you think owning a source code license to a %REAL UNIX would be cool, then please SIGN THE PETITION at % % http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/petition.html % %If you know anybody else who might be prepared to sign this petition, %then ___pass this message onto them___. Finally, check out the home page %of the PDP-11 UNIX Preservation Society at % % http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/ % %Many thanks in advance, % % Warren Toomey wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au % %

28 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

1975 PE Altair Article Scans

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: Here's one for you...a kind sole that I know on CompuServe was kind enough to produce color scans of the original MITS Altair article from the 1/75 issue of Popluar Electronics. I posted it yesterday on the Classic Computer ftp site under the name altarmag.zip. The file is big (3.7mb), containing about 9 jpgs. Wait till you see the color! I'm also working on this guy to prepare Adobe PDF scans of the original Altair construction manual and schematics. I've seen some scans previously, but they have shadows, etc. Hopefully, these will be of similar quality to the mag scans. When I've got them, I'll post a message. ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

Books

by manney＠nwohio.com

Does anyone want Intel's book, "Assembly language programming" for the 8080 and 8085 chip? Free, U pay postage.

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

I would like to unsubscribel

by ynagasaw＠ic.sunysb.edu

How can I unsubscribe? Thank you, Yujin

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Machines on the way to the dump...

by dbetz＠xlisper.mv.com

I'm taking the following machines to the dump on Saturday. If anyone is within striking distance of Bedford, NH and wants any of these machines please let me know. TI-99/4a (doesn't work) A few TI cartridges and books Heathkit H-11 (works) Heathkit dual 8" disk drive unit (doesn't work) Vector V3-5036 S-100 system (works) Vector dual 5.25" disk drive unit (untested) VT-100 clone -- David Betz dbetz(a)xlisper.mv.com DavidBetz(a)aol.com (603) 472-2389

28 years, 9 months

1
1
0 0

2026

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

test-drb