Tony Duell <ard(a)odin.phy.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
> > Sounds like HP-IB all right. Note that not all 7970s are.
>
> It's a fairly safe bet IMHO that anything HP after about 1975 with that
> connector is HPIB. There are probably exceptions, but I've not come across
> many (any?)
Any time I've seen that connector on HP gear it was for HP-IB. And
the 7970s that aren't HP-IB don't have that connector. Instead I
think they have a card-edge connector or something to mate with a
card-edge connector (on the end of a long cable that you're supposed
to drag back to the interface in the CPU cabinet).
The 7970 is not a new drive; HP made and sold them for a number of
years. The first HP 3000 I ever saw (a series II) had one, and that
was in 1977. I'm pretty sure there was some way to hook it up to a
2100 (stand-alone, or in an instrument controller or 1000/2000
configuration) as well.
The HP 3000 series II and series III did not use HP-IB. The first
HP-IB 3000s were the series 30 and 33. When HP started shipping new
HP-IB peripherals that were bigger/better/faster[1] they also had the
"Starfish" for the series III. That was a small card cage mounted in
its own 19" cabinet, reportedly due to UL certification requirements,
which provided a GIC (General I/O Channel aka HP-IB interface) and
somehow interfaced it to the series III.
At a previous place of employment, we had a series III when I started.
It eventually (1984) got upgraded to (box swapped for) a series 64,
which supported HP-IB somewhat more directly. We had had a Starfish
on the III, but had only used it for a 7933 disc -- the 7970E tape
drives were hooked up to a MAGNETIC TAPE INTERFACE card in the III.
Part of the upgrade was the removal of some interface electronics from
the bottom of the "master" 7970E and its replacement with some new
interface electronics that spoke HP-IB. There was a similar
replacement for the 7925 disc drive too.
> BTW, what's the correct name for that series of connectors? We tend to
> call them 'Amphenol Connectors' in the UK (while realising that Amphenol
> make a wide range of different connectors). I've also seen them called
> 'Centronics Connectors' (after the common use for the 36 pin one I guess),
> IEEE (or IEEE-488) connectors (after the common use for the 24 pin one)
> and 'Telco Connectors'. I think the last is what HP call them.
Doggone if I know. We always called them HP-IB connectors. So did
the HP CEs. We were pretty much a 3000 shop with not much non-HP
equipment outside of the modems and furniture, certainly nothing else
that tried to use that connector. Well, we did for a while have a
Univac 1004 RJE station, but we never tried to plug it into the 3000
and I can't remember ever trying to do much with it other than feed it
paper when it ran out.
-Frank McConnell
[1] the ones I am thinking of are the 7933 disc drive (404MB washing
machine), 7976A tape drive (6250BPI 9-track, streaming and
start-stop, OEM'd from someone else (STC I think)), and 2680A laser
printer; I think these were the only peripherals supported for
connection via Starfish
<Yes, I'd realised that. I was planning on making a circuit that triggered
<off the index pulse and recorded 'bursts' of (say) 250kHz pulses on the
<disk. A bit of logic would let me record a track offset towards the edge
<of the disk, twiddle the micrometer to move the head to the same offset
<towards the spindle and then record bursts between the ones I'd just put
<down. Now align the target drive so that both types of burst are replayed
<at the same amplitude.
doesn't work, you need the narrower write head. What you will see is
the additive components of the signals where the head overlaps the tracks.
The can be the sum or the signals, if not in sync there will also be
differences due the phases at a given instant. Also do not discount the
effects of the tunnel erase portion of the head slicing off the adjacent
offset tracks.
<The older SA800's used entirely standard logic, so it's not worth taking
<parts from an old one. SA850's used custom chips in the read/write
<circuit, and later SA800's (according to my service manual) used one big
<custom chip :-(. I guess then you have to get spares from old drives.
Sometimes it's easier to swap a known board that troubleshoot.
<Getting _new_ 8" drives is next-to-impossible, and if you use a
True but, there are used and then there are USED. The later being one thats
seen umpty years of 24x7.
<The less said about that SA400 the better....
Yep!
Allison
Doug Spence, please e-mail me so I have your current e-mail address. I
tried e-mailing you the images of the Apple3 system disks and it bounced.
If anyone else wants ShrinkIt archives of the Apple /// system disks let
me know and I'll e-mail them off to you. You'll need an Apple that can
run ShrinkIt (//e, //c, //gs, ???) and a copy of ShrinkIt (can be found
on the net, public domain AFAIK) to transfer them to 5.25" floppies.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
<> I knew about that too, Those disks is too far expensive for few fixes
<> run to pay off in due time. :)
<
<It's not that bad. You only need 4 disks total - one of each size. They're
<no more expensive than the other test gear you really should have.
<
<If somebody could find a UK source of 8" alignment disks then I'd buy one
<_now!_
Dec diagnostic disks that havent been rewritten are generally very close to
nominal alignment.
<I was planning on removing the pin altogether and letting the head
<carriage move freely over the leadscrew. Then fit a micrometer head and a
<spring to pull the head assy agains the end of the micrometer. I should be
<able to get about 1" of calibrated head movement.
While you can do this there is one problem. Alignment disks are recorded
with a narrower than normal trackwdith and also stagger tracks (recorded
with offset either side of true) for alignment use.
Another tool you need is a source of 125/250/500khz pulses that conform to
FM timing (single density) for writing patterns. This is something you can
build out a handful of counters and a 4mhz clock osc.
Over the years I've found that if the drive needs alignment it's wise to
look for other problems like spindle and motor bearings that are tired
or head to actuator wear that will make for sloppy operation. Head
alignment can signal other problems. I retired a SA800 for spindle
bearings because the thing would not reliably read (had a new in the box
spare). Generally I've found that it's best to put aside those drives in
favor of a better one stealing the logic from it as needed. The only time I
would fix it is when there is really no other choice. Unless doing a museum
style restore I've found some drives are better dumped (sa400s in general)
in favor of other better drives of the era.
Allison
> I can get lots of TI 99 items, tell what you are looking for ??
Thanks, John. I am looking for:
Cartridges (I have none), preferably not of arcade-style games unless
particularly significant
Manuals, in particular pinout and levels of video port so that I can
connect a monitor of some description...
Also, details of what sort of joystick I need to connect...
Philip.
Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu
>A TI-99/4A (works) with RF Modulator, Joysticks, and 20 cartridges... $5.<
Were you soliciting information on the TI?
The joysticks aren't Atari-standard, so you're lucky those were in the
package. Cartridge-wise, look through your haul particularly for Extended
BASIC, Disk Manager II and Terminal Emulator II. The first is critical if
you even get an Peripheral Expansion Box ("PEB"); the second is helpful if
you get a PEB. The third is useful if you ever get the voice synthesizer
(or of course, if you want to try a modem). If you have an Adventure
cartridge, it won't do you much good unless you also got the accompanying
tape.
>Tho this isn't perfectly legit, I also picked up a Sony AC/DC (with 3
types
of DC!) 5" color TV, which I plan to use as a monitor / portable monitor
for one (or more) of my CoCo's. (The TI didn't like it... :-( <
No clue on why . . . .
>Question: One of the cartridges has a triangular picture-hanger rivited to
the case... would this be some sort of store demo or something?<
No way of telling, short of inserting it and seeing what pops up.
Gil Parrish
107765.1161(a)compuserve.com
Isaac Davis <indavis(a)juno.com> wrote:
> On the discussion of classic computers, does anyone have some Analog
> magazines from the 86-87 time frame. I am trying to follow some of the
> 'Boot Camp' articles (machine language tutorial). The problem that I
> have is, they all build off of a beginning article, and you'll never
> guess what I am missing. They are articles on player missile graphics in
> machine language. If anyone has them, I would really appreciate getting
> in contact with them. I believe what I am looking for is in the
> July-October issues. I have November 86 - January 87, which are the last
> 3 in the series.
Time for a show of hands: how many of us are going to LoneStarCon in
San Antonio over Labor Day weekend?
Isaac, if you haven't found these by say 27 August, please let us know
so we know to be looking for them in the huckster room....
-Frank McConnell
If you e-mail me a fax number I can fax you the pages, there are 44 pages in
the manual showing the many different settings.
At 05:54 PM 8/18/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Can anyone help this guy out?
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 20:28:19 -0500
>From: Jim Duchek <jimduchek(a)primary.net>
>To: bill(a)booster.bothell.washington.edu
>Subject: Computers
>
>Hi there. I noticed in your collection that you had an IBM PC; I'm
>assuming it's a 5150. Do you have a manual for it that might list the
>jumper and dip switch settings on the motherboard, and if so, could you
>tell me what they are? Thanks.
>
>
>Jim Duchek
>jimduchek(a)primary.net
>
>
>
Can anyone help this guy out?
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 20:28:19 -0500
From: Jim Duchek <jimduchek(a)primary.net>
To: bill(a)booster.bothell.washington.edu
Subject: Computers
Hi there. I noticed in your collection that you had an IBM PC; I'm
assuming it's a 5150. Do you have a manual for it that might list the
jumper and dip switch settings on the motherboard, and if so, could you
tell me what they are? Thanks.
Jim Duchek
jimduchek(a)primary.net
I can get lots of TI 99 items, tell what you are looking for ??
At 10:28 AM 8/18/97 BST, you wrote:
>> > I bought: A TI-99/4A (Not as lucky as Roger M - I paid L12 with no
>> > joysticks, manuals or cartridges, but I did get the UHF thingy)
>>
>> Nice!!!....
>
>Yes, my first TI computer (I have a broken calculator and a Silent 700
>or two...)
>
>> > But the real find: A British Telecom Microscribe for L1
>>
>> Very nice...
>>
>> > This object is a solidly built sub-notebook (about 7 in square by 1
>> > thick) with a dinky keyboard and a palmtop-sized LCD. It has 32K of RAM
>> > and 16K of ROM, and the processor is an Hitachi HD63A03XP single chip
>> > microcomputer.
>>
>> Is that the only processor? It sounds as though it might be distantly
>> related to a Thorn-EMI machine called a Liberator which had a 63-something
>> for I/O and a Z80 running a CP/M like OS (or at least, that what I think
>> is inside it - the ROM is (C) Digital Research, and running strings on a
>> ROM image turns up some interesting stuff)
>
>'fraid so. Indeed, it is the only chip with >28 pins (apart from the
>flatpacks on the back of the LCD). IC master, just to be perverse,
>gives various 6301 and 6305 variants in that series, but nothing of 6303
>flavour.
>
>> Not so. A lot of machines use the NiCd as the smoothing component. HP
>> certainly did in just about all of their more recent NiCd calculators (the
>> ones that use the 8V 50mA AC charger).
>
>Interesting. I haven't found where the battery gets in, but the input
>stage is something like:
>
> Diode
>Ring --+--/\/\/-|>|-+-----+
> | 56R | \
> | |C / 82R
> | |/ \
> +-/\/\/-+--| NPN /
> | |\ |
> _ |E |
>Tip--+ Zener A +-----+--- +5V? to rest of machine (??)
> | |
> GND GND
>
>I would guess the battery could well do any smoothing downstream of the
>regulator, but I'd still like to see some upstream of it!
>
>If the machine draws 60mA, minimum voltage at input is around 9V,
>maximum around 13V, so I suppose I could try 10V and see what happens...
>
>> Some, like the Epson HX20 even used the fact that the voltage across the
>> NiCd would go above 5V to limit the supply voltage to the chips. The
> ^^^^^
>I take it you mean wouldn't
>
>> If you have an adjustable PSU, apply about 5V, and then crank it up
>> towards 9V (I'd guess that's what it takes), monitor the 5V line and stop
>> if it rises above (say) 5.5V. See what current flows - it should be
>> arround 50mA.
>
>Worth a try.
>
>Philip.
>
>
>
Anyone want any Kaypro 10s? I know someone who has a couple he wants to
get rid of.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Umm... I just noticed something. On the READY lamp, where the drive
number is supposed to be, mine is blank. There's nothing behind the ready
cover. No metal in it. Does that mean drive 0?
> I've got a little reference card for HP9830A Basic. Get me your postal
> address and I'll send you a copy.
Thank you, it looks as if I'll be unloading it. Perhaps he who gets it
would be interested.
[My ascii circuit diagram]
> That looks like a voltage regualtor, which is strange, since I'd have
> expected a constant current charger for the NiCd. Of course a lot of
> machines just use a resistor to limit the charging current (and to get you
> to buy more expensive battery packs)
It does to me, too! By "to get you to buy more expensive battery packs"
do you mean that the packs are more expensive, or that they wear out
faster?
> > If the machine draws 60mA, minimum voltage at input is around 9V,
> > maximum around 13V, so I suppose I could try 10V and see what happens...
>
> Remember that you'll be charging this thing (probably) with the machine
> turned off, so it's not going to be taking much current).
Good point. 50mA then (8 < V < 12) based on the 14 hour rate on the
battery label. Looks like 9V is about right...
There is also a power switch but I haven't found where it connects yet.
(Not in series with the circuit I just drew AFAIK) Next task, I
suppose, is to trace that part of the circuit. Difficult, because most
of PCB tracks are underneath LCD module which is difficult to remove...
Philip.
> > I bought: A TI-99/4A (Not as lucky as Roger M - I paid L12 with no
> > joysticks, manuals or cartridges, but I did get the UHF thingy)
>
> Nice!!!....
Yes, my first TI computer (I have a broken calculator and a Silent 700
or two...)
> > But the real find: A British Telecom Microscribe for L1
>
> Very nice...
>
> > This object is a solidly built sub-notebook (about 7 in square by 1
> > thick) with a dinky keyboard and a palmtop-sized LCD. It has 32K of RAM
> > and 16K of ROM, and the processor is an Hitachi HD63A03XP single chip
> > microcomputer.
>
> Is that the only processor? It sounds as though it might be distantly
> related to a Thorn-EMI machine called a Liberator which had a 63-something
> for I/O and a Z80 running a CP/M like OS (or at least, that what I think
> is inside it - the ROM is (C) Digital Research, and running strings on a
> ROM image turns up some interesting stuff)
'fraid so. Indeed, it is the only chip with >28 pins (apart from the
flatpacks on the back of the LCD). IC master, just to be perverse,
gives various 6301 and 6305 variants in that series, but nothing of 6303
flavour.
> Not so. A lot of machines use the NiCd as the smoothing component. HP
> certainly did in just about all of their more recent NiCd calculators (the
> ones that use the 8V 50mA AC charger).
Interesting. I haven't found where the battery gets in, but the input
stage is something like:
Diode
Ring --+--/\/\/-|>|-+-----+
| 56R | \
| |C / 82R
| |/ \
+-/\/\/-+--| NPN /
| |\ |
_ |E |
Tip--+ Zener A +-----+--- +5V? to rest of machine (??)
| |
GND GND
I would guess the battery could well do any smoothing downstream of the
regulator, but I'd still like to see some upstream of it!
If the machine draws 60mA, minimum voltage at input is around 9V,
maximum around 13V, so I suppose I could try 10V and see what happens...
> Some, like the Epson HX20 even used the fact that the voltage across the
> NiCd would go above 5V to limit the supply voltage to the chips. The
^^^^^
I take it you mean wouldn't
> If you have an adjustable PSU, apply about 5V, and then crank it up
> towards 9V (I'd guess that's what it takes), monitor the 5V line and stop
> if it rises above (say) 5.5V. See what current flows - it should be
> arround 50mA.
Worth a try.
Philip.
Hi there everyone!
I went to the car boot sale again yesterday. For once, there were lots
of computers on offer: two ZX Spectra (original 16K); one Spectrum +2;
an Atari 620; any number of Commodore 64s in late-style cases.
I bought: A TI-99/4A (Not as lucky as Roger M - I paid L12 with no
joysticks, manuals or cartridges, but I did get the UHF thingy)
But the real find: A British Telecom Microscribe for L1
This object is a solidly built sub-notebook (about 7 in square by 1
thick) with a dinky keyboard and a palmtop-sized LCD. It has 32K of RAM
and 16K of ROM, and the processor is an Hitachi HD63A03XP single chip
microcomputer.
THE LCD looks as if it might be 200 or 256 by 64 pixels (40 characters
by 8 lines?) - I haven't powered it up yet because (a) the NiCd battery
is flat and (b) I have yet to work out what voltage to feed it (3.5mm
jack with tip negative). All I know is that it must be smoothed DC,
since there is a diode but no smoothing capacitor in the input stage.
The battery is 4.8V, and somewhat inconsistently marked 0.8 Ah - charge
at 50mA for 14 hours (I make that 0.7Ah less charging losses), so the
power supply (which feeds a linear regulator - transistor in parallel
with 82 ohms) must be greater than this. I would guess at something in
the region of 9V given the size of the resistors in the regulator
circuit, but...
The manufacturer's label on the back suggests it is a Microscribe Model
320, made by Microscribe Ltd at Cwmbran in South Wales. Since they had
the forethought to put an address and 'phone number on the label, I
shall try and contact them this week (DV).
Meanwhile, does anyone have any info on this? In particular, what
voltage do I feed it?
Philip.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Das Feuer brennt, das Feuer nennt die Luft sein Schwesterelement -
und frisst sie doch (samt dem Ozon)! Das ist die Liebe, lieber Sohn.
Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk
Anybody know what an Opus 5000 is? Someone offered me one for sale and
I'm trying to figure out how much I should offer to pay him for it. Thanks.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Well, guys & gals, remember me? I'm one of the folks who lives in the
boonies that owns 70% of the classic machines in a 50 mile radius!!!
I travelled just a bit closer to civilization over the weekend, and did a
lot of gar[b]age saleing on Thurs. & Friday, and I did get one good find,
well, for at least the thumb area of Michigan (lotsa farmers)...
A TI-99/4A (works) with RF Modulator, Joysticks, and 20 cartridges... $5.
It even came in a computer/game holder, to keep everything organized.
(haggled from $10... had to give wifey a lesson on "Don't ask me what it
is, when I'm playing dumb!" ;-)
Tho this isn't perfectly legit, I also picked up a Sony AC/DC (with 3 types
of DC!) 5" color TV, which I plan to use as a monitor / portable monitor
for one (or more) of my CoCo's. (The TI didn't like it... :-(
Question: One of the cartridges has a triangular picture-hanger rivited to
the case... would this be some sort of store demo or something?
Anyway, keep digging, you'll eventually come up with something!
Have fun,
"Merch"
--
Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed,
Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not*
zmerch(a)northernway.net | be your first career choice.
In a message dated 8/17/97 9:45:58 AM, you wrote:
<<Hi Dave, just curious how the minimum bids were arrived at as they are
quite
high based on the prices I see out here in California.>>
Marvin, Well, I'm here in Jacksonville, Florida and I source all of my finds
>from the AOL classifieds and from a number of newsgroups. The prices are just
my best guesses to minimum "shipped" values. The true value of any
collectable is what the market will bare. I think I'm letting some of these
things go at a pretty modest level (at least from my reference). Thank you
for your comments, I'm going to keep trying to make it a better page. Best,
David Greelish
Classic Computing Press
Jacksonville, FL
historical(a)aol.com
http://www.cyberstreet.com/hcs/hcs.htm
Does anyone have any info on the I/O port on the back of the HP9100
desktop calculator? I believe that HP once produced a manual telling you
how to link up homebrew/custom peripherals, but I don't have it, alas
What I really need is a pinout, brief signal descriptions or timings, etc.
I want to be able to output a few on/off signals (I don't care if they're
binary or BCD encoded).
-tony
If this ends up being a duplicate, my apologies. The first one was sent
while I may not have been subscribed under my new address.
In any case... yes, a new address. I had to ditch the old one due to
spamming. Please note the new one: kyrrin2(a)wizards.net.
Caveat emptor!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2(a)wizards.net)
http://www.wizards.net/technoid
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
<controllers. There was a NSC800 cpu module, and when I removed it, sure
<enough, there was a NSC800 N-1 cpu. No idea what that is though. Heaps of
<switches, leds and stuff behind the front panel, too.
Sounds like a National semi development system. The NSC800 is a cmos z80
that is 8085 bus compatable if I remember right. Generally speaking
development systems tend to be scarce as they are not hight volume.
Allison
Hi, folks,
Well, it had to happen eventually I guess. I've had to change my address
due to spamming of the old one. Please note that my new address will be
kyrrin2(a)wizards.net.
Caveat emptor!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2(a)wizards.net)
http://www.wizards.net/technoid
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
Hi
I found a scrap place today that ahd a few computers - got on good terms
and now they are going to ring me whenever they pick one up. :) Apparantly
they just scrapped an old Xerox box, but no details, and they get the
occasional Altair and stuff. Anyway, they had little on hand that
interested me (I already had their Amstrads, and the Commodore 128D's had
no monitor or keyboards, so I thought I would think about them), but I did
pick up something - I just don't know what it is. It's about the size of a
original PC/XT, but the case is blue - with a blue clear panel on the
front. Has two com ports and a vdu port, and two 8" drives. I opened her
up, and she has a rack with everything plugging in at teh back, inc lots of
controllers. There was a NSC800 cpu module, and when I removed it, sure
enough, there was a NSC800 N-1 cpu. No idea what that is though. Heaps of
switches, leds and stuff behind the front panel, too.
Anyway, this is somewhat outside my normal collecting range, and isn't
probably of much interest, but at a couple of dollars I thought it might be
worth looking into it. Can anyone tell me what it is, or anything about
it?
Thanks heaps,
Adam.
Hello, again...
Well, the Altair scans got here today, and I must say that the quality is
excellent. There's stuff for the 8800b, the 8800, some add-in boards, and the
"computer-notes" pamphlets. All told, with the schematics, there's about 90mb
of info. Based on a quick count, there's probably 750-1000 pages of info. The
files are in Adobe Acrobat PDF format.
As soon Bill can reach his computer again, I'll Fedex them to him to post on
the ftp site.
------------------------
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<rcini(a)msn.com>
- ClubWin Charter Member (6)
- MCPS Windows 95/Networking
From:
Tom <tomxs(a)hotmail.com>
4:22
Subject:
Mark-8 for sale
FYI, from comp.os.cpm:
>Mark-8 Computer for sale. Intel 8008 introduced July 1974.
>Serious collectors only.
>Tom Smith
>tomxs(a)hotmail.com
At 08:26 PM 8/12/97 -0700, you wrote:
>The other day I haggled over a quarter for god's sake!
Last weekend at a garage sale, a guy wanted to sell me three things (kiddie
cars) for a quarter. I gave him $.50.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
Yeesh, if you run into any, I'll trade you for them! I have several
friends looking for them.
I know of only two collectors besides myself who have 5100's. In
contrast, there are about 15 Altairs represented on this mailing list.
I do know of an Apple I that's for sale... anybody got $10,000 burning a
hole in their pocket? Yeesh.
Kai
> ----------
> From: Sam Ismail
> Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 1997 5:07 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: RE: IBM 5100
>
> On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Anthony Eros wrote:
>
> > > They're extremely rare. Rarer than almost anything except an
> Apple I.
> > > Just before I was lucky enough to be gifted mine from a saintly
> > > old-timer, I saw one sell for $650. That's the only one I've ever
> seen
> > > for sale, and the seller said he'd received over 60 inquiries. He
> also
> > > said he could have gotten more if he wanted to drag the bidding on
> for
> > > another couple of weeks.
>
> I have to question this "rarer than almost anything escept for an
> Apple
> I" as I have seen two 5100 in varying states in the last few months.
> I've seen even less of more obscure computers. In my estimation,
> 5100's
> aren't the hardest things to find.
>
>
> Sam
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete,
> Writer, Jackass
>
Maybe we can help someone sell an old system in the future. I'm just now
fooling around with an internet auction. We hope to do another in the future.
Check out the old computer auction at:
http://members.aol.com/mtpro
I appreciate any discussion and comments. Thanks. Best,
David Greelish, Classic Computing Press
http://www.cyberstreet.com/hcs/hcs.htm
how much you asking? I'll pick up the postage and little something for your
time.
jrkeys(a)concentric.net
At 08:24 AM 8/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Dug up an HP 9831A...single-line, dot matrix display, full keyboard desktop
>unit (abt the size of a typewriter). Looks fairly old.
>
>Seems to be a full computer (not a programmable calculator, which they also
>made a lot of), as it wakes up in a BASIC mode. I get a lot of error
>messages --probably due to improper commands. It will accept and run a
>simple program.
>
>Anyone want it?
>
>manney(a)nwohio.com
>
>
>
> > the service manual) that the other 2 were luminance (Y) and
> (PAL-encoded)
> > chrominance, or possibly composite colour video and audio if it
> feeds audio
> > through to the TV.
>
> The composite video on the G7400 is Pal encoded, and I'm pretty sure
> it is on the G7000. I have 2 sets of schematics. One for the
> Odyssey2 (where every part number is an internal Magnavox number :-P
> and the other for the G7000) - I seem to recall something about PAL
> conversion on the RF modulator board. I probably just don't remember
> right.
>
> If one is not composite video, where is the sync encoded? On Y (i.e.
> making it composite mono)? I suppose this could just possibly be
> video
> + composite sync - just what I need.
>
> > >> >> What chips _other than the 8048_ are in this device? Is the
> video side
> > >> >> custom or does it use one of the many Philips video chipsets?
> (Philips
> > >> >> Prestel terminals tend to be stuffed with their Teletext IC's,
> for
> > >> >> example...)
> >
> > >Pretty boring, I'm afraid - 8245 and 6110 plus about 20 TTL chips.
> I
> >
> > What the heck are those?
>
> 8245 is a Nat Semi keyboard controller. This chip says Intel on it,
> but
> I was assuming, probably very rashly, that it was the same thing.
>
> [Matt Pritchard]
> We've been unable to find any info on the video chip; though it
> supposed to be an Intel chip. Most of it has been reversed enginnered
> though.
>
> 8 colors
> 4 sprites, 8 by 8 pixels, independantly positioned & colord. can be
> double sized
> 12 characters, independantly positioned & colored, up to an 8 byte
> tall strip from the character rom (512 bytes, 64 chars) can show just
> part of a character.
> 4 quad characters. 4 characters positioned in a horizontal row with
> one character spacing inbetween. independantly colored. Put two of
> these together to make 8 consecutive text characters.
>
> Background grid 10 by 8 blocks with 4 thin line segements around each
> block. Complete off/on control of ever segment. Set a flag in the
> video chip to fill in the large box to the right of each vertical line
> segment.
>
> The horizontal retrace is run into the 8048 so you can count scanlines
> - that is how colors are changed midway down the screen.
>
> 6110 is a typo for 6810 :-), in fact Motorola MCM6810, a RAM chip.
> Looking it up last night I discovered that it is in fact 128 by 8
> (yes,
> 128 bytes!) so I cannot think what it is used for! (It is too slow to
>
> be a video output buffer)
>
> [Matt Pritchard]
> Are you sure it's not 256 bytes?
>
> Philip.
Dug up an HP 9831A...single-line, dot matrix display, full keyboard desktop
unit (abt the size of a typewriter). Looks fairly old.
Seems to be a full computer (not a programmable calculator, which they also
made a lot of), as it wakes up in a BASIC mode. I get a lot of error
messages --probably due to improper commands. It will accept and run a
simple program.
Anyone want it?
manney(a)nwohio.com
Lets try and help this guy out, he is trying to hook the young!
I got a call yesterday from this guy who was looking for a disk drive for an
Amiga 500, he is trying to set it up for his young niece. As luck would have
it, a disk drive was the only piece of Amiga hardware that I have, so I went
down there today to set it up for him. Unfortunately, it seems that the
problem is not the disk drive but the floppy controller (i think). Not being
fortunate enough to have owned an Amiga myself, I am at a loss. Here is the
problem in brief:
The machine will display the little picture asking for the disk...
Put the disk in, and the drive is polled, but doesn't read it, so it ask
again for the disk...
I tried my drive in the system, with the same result (hence thinking it
might be the controller)...
I'm not exactly sure if it is the right disk he has, he ordered it from
Toronto at a cost of $26.00 (can), it says Amiga workbench, however I am not
sure if that is really what is on it...
I would appreciate any help or suggestions from anybody who might have
come across this situation before.
Remember: This guy is setting this up for his young niece, who calls every
day asking if it is ready yet. I think its great to get the young into
classic computing (my own nieces just call my machines door stops, and call
me a geek for having them ;)
----------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________Live from the GLRS
The Man From D.A.D
----------------------------------------------------------------
> On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote:
>
> > I would tend to agree with Roger. Deal with people fairly and they'll
> > respect you and your hobby. If you start haggling over every tiny little
> > thing they'll just throw it away instead of calling you next time...
>
> I disagree. Nobody is going to say "Gee, I'd really like to take all
> this old junk and sell it at a swap meet but those darn hagglers just
> make it such a chore!!!"
>
> It's part of the whole swap meet experience. The fact is, I do treat
> people fairly. I'm paying them what I feel it is worth, and as we all
> know, that is what a "fair price" is. They certainly don't have to sell
> it to me for what I ask, and in fact that has happened on several occasions.
> Sam
At a swap meet or garage sale most people expect you to haggle. That is part
of the game. You can tell pretty quick if they're not into it becuse they say
no to your offer. Most of the people I buy stuff from are just trying to get
rid of it. They're more than happy to bargain. Especially if you buy all the
boxes of "computer junk" they have.
On the other hand there's a lady who hauls out an old Amiga 500 without power
supply or mouse every week and is "Firm at $100". Someday she'll figure it
out. (usually $5-$10 at Goodwill)
I recall a stubborn seller a few years back. I was searching for a collectible
Coke machine. I called a guy that had one for $1000. I mentioned making an
offer once I had seen it and he told me he was "firm" on $1000 and seemed
insulted. Well, before I could get there to check it out, a fellow collector
drove down there within an hour and hauled it away for $200! Funny thing is
that at the time I was ready to fork out at least $600 for it! You can never
tell what people are thinking.
No transputers, but I know where you can get a 1450XLD from an ex-Atari
employee, although he is only willing to sell it if he gets "the right
price", whatever that is.
Kai
> ----------
> From: bluesky6(a)ix.netcom.com
> Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
> Sent: Friday, August 15, 1997 9:21 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Re: Transputers (was: Re: CCC : Atari machines)
>
> I have actually seen the Atari Transputer machine at a show in Paris.
>
> If memory serves, one of the demos they had was the mandelbrot drawing
> program with the 4 transputers each taking a part of the screen and
> computing it at the same time while a stock ST had the 68K calculate
> the entire screen by itself.
>
> IMHO, Atari had a lot of great products in those days. Unfortunately,
> most of them were never really marketed or even so, were marketed
> poorly.
>
> Ben
>
Rich,
I have found that getting hardware is relatively easy. I probably have
enough pieces to put together a half-dozen Q-Bus 11's, although I consider
most of the pieces "spares". Software, however, is another matter.
Original distribution disks with accompanying documentation has been hard
to come by. If you have any knowledge of DEC OSs, grab all you can get.
For instance, I have been looking for an original distribution (disks,
docs) for RT-11 Version 5.2 or later. If you run across a spare one of
these, I would be happy to help you dispose of it! :)
Thanks,
Dave Jenner
djenner(a)halcyon.com
Seattle, WA
206-527-2018
----------
> From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. <rcini(a)msn.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: PDP Stuff-What to get?
> Date: Friday, August 15, 1997 6:19 AM
>
> Hello, all:
>
> Well, I finally heard from that guy at Temple University (Philly, PA)
about
> the truckloads of PDP equipment. I'm going down there next Friday to get
some
> stuff. I asked this question before, but didn't get a complete answer, so
here
> it goes again...
>
> "If you were able to get your pick of PDP-11 equipment (like 11/34s) and
> accessories, what would you get?" This is my first PDP acquisition, so I
don't
> know what to look for (and I don't have a truck, so I can't just haul it
> all!). I don't even know how big this stuff is, but I'd like to try to
get a
> "complete" (whatever that is) PDP system, but a rack-mount style, which
is
> easier for me to transport.
>
> From what I understand, the Temple computer department has truckloads of
this
> equipment, from all types of hardware to software and manuals. I'm
looking for
> an expert's recommendation as to what to shop for.
>
> Thanks for the input!
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> Rich Cini/WUGNET
> e-mail: rcini(a)msn.com
> - ClubWin Charter Member (6)
> - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking
OK, here is the complete listing from the CCC of the machines made by
Atari. Please consult your favorite references and confirm/deny or
complete the missing data.
I would like a month/year for the first customer shipment or the first
public working demonstration of the machines. Please provide references
where possible, if they are on-line then so much the better.
I am also planning to extend the information per machine to include data
about processor used, word-size, memory configurations etc. so feel free
to add that data also.
I have set the reply to address to my personal Email so as not to
clutter the mail list. You can always go to the CCC to recover the
updated data. If there are enopugh requests I can post an updated
preview table here before the CCC gets updated.
I would also be interested in a potted history of the manufacturer, date
started where located and significant events in its history. I know most
of this is probably available on the NET for Atari, but not for some of
the more obscure companies.
CCC list for Atari
I think I am correct in saying that all Atari machines were designed in
the USA.
400 Dec-78
800 1979
1200XL 1982
600XL 1983
800XL 1983
1040 ST 1985
130XE 1985
520 STfm 1985
520 ST Jan-85
65XE Jan-85
Mega ST 1987
Mega STe 1987
XE Game system 1987
STe 1990
TT 1990
1024 STe
1040 STf
1040 STfm
260 ST
2600
520 ST+
520 STe
520 STm
800XE
ATR-8000
Falcon 16
Mega 1
Mega 4
STacy
STbook
TT/16
Thanks for you help
Hans B Pufal
> A Composite video conversion is pretty easy; I converted a G7400 over in
> about 5 minutes.
Could I have some details, please? Is composite Video easy to find in
the circuit, or do I have to reverse engineer or poke around with a
scope?
Philip.
> Assuming that there are no other connections to the 'Modulator' then one of
> those wires has to be a power rail. I'd guess (without seeing the device or
Oops! The connection to the PSU is another ground, so I guess you must
be right.
> the service manual) that the other 2 were luminance (Y) and (PAL-encoded)
> chrominance, or possibly composite colour video and audio if it feeds audio
> through to the TV.
If one is not composite video, where is the sync encoded? On Y (i.e.
making it composite mono)? I suppose this could just possibly be video
+ composite sync - just what I need.
> >> >> What chips _other than the 8048_ are in this device? Is the video side
> >> >> custom or does it use one of the many Philips video chipsets? (Philips
> >> >> Prestel terminals tend to be stuffed with their Teletext IC's, for
> >> >> example...)
>
> >Pretty boring, I'm afraid - 8245 and 6110 plus about 20 TTL chips. I
>
> What the heck are those?
8245 is a Nat Semi keyboard controller. This chip says Intel on it, but
I was assuming, probably very rashly, that it was the same thing.
6110 is a typo for 6810 :-), in fact Motorola MCM6810, a RAM chip.
Looking it up last night I discovered that it is in fact 128 by 8 (yes,
128 bytes!) so I cannot think what it is used for! (It is too slow to
be a video output buffer)
Philip.
Hello, all:
Well, I finally heard from that guy at Temple University (Philly, PA) about
the truckloads of PDP equipment. I'm going down there next Friday to get some
stuff. I asked this question before, but didn't get a complete answer, so here
it goes again...
"If you were able to get your pick of PDP-11 equipment (like 11/34s) and
accessories, what would you get?" This is my first PDP acquisition, so I don't
know what to look for (and I don't have a truck, so I can't just haul it
all!). I don't even know how big this stuff is, but I'd like to try to get a
"complete" (whatever that is) PDP system, but a rack-mount style, which is
easier for me to transport.
From what I understand, the Temple computer department has truckloads of this
equipment, from all types of hardware to software and manuals. I'm looking for
an expert's recommendation as to what to shop for.
Thanks for the input!
-------------------------------------------------
Rich Cini/WUGNET
e-mail: rcini(a)msn.com
- ClubWin Charter Member (6)
- MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking
A Composite video conversion is pretty easy; I converted a G7400 over in
about 5 minutes.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk
> [SMTP:Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 6:20 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Re: Philips G7000
>
> > > collectible. (What is the G7000 anyway? Yes, I did buy it! It
> has an
> > > 8048 as the CPU, of all things!)
> >
> > It is a video game system that is compatible with the Magnavox
> Odessey^2
> >
> > Do you have any cartridges for it. If not then I have a few
> duplicates.
>
> Yes thanks, I have four or five. I don't expect to use the thing
> until
> I can find out how to get composite video or RGB out, since I don't
> possess a television.
>
> [For those of you not in the UK, here one requires a licence to
> operate
> "Television Receiving Apparatus", which I think includes any TV with a
>
> UHF tuner, but not a monitor. The licence fee is (without looking up
> either the current fee or the exchange rate) about $120 a year, and I
> am
> not prepared to pay this. So I don't have a TV - and seldom miss it.]
>
> Philip.
----------
From: Kai Kaltenbach[SMTP:kaikal@microsoft.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 5:32 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: RE: IBM 5100
> They're extremely rare. Rarer than almost anything except an Apple I.
> Just before I was lucky enough to be gifted mine from a saintly
> old-timer, I saw one sell for $650. That's the only one I've ever seen
> for sale, and the seller said he'd received over 60 inquiries. He also
> said he could have gotten more if he wanted to drag the bidding on for
> another couple of weeks.
Sheesh! It's all a matter of timing, I suppose. Aside from the system I didn't buy several years ago, I spoke with a town manager in upstate NY who had
trashed two 5100s after posting a "for sale" message on a web page and had received no responses.
> I am aware of a gentleman who may be willing to part with a 5110 + dual
> 8" external drives + printer, but he wants a "very generous offer" for
> it and the shipping alone would be a killer since the total weight is
> about 200 lbs (he's in PA).
Pennsylvania's not a problem -- I'm in Delaware and could certainly pick it up. What's the difference between the 5100 and the 5110?
> BTW, do you have a web page for your collection?
Not yet, but it's on my list of things to do...
-- Tony Eros
Proprietor -- FooBear's Cluttered Cellar Classic Computer Collection
I may have the opportunity to pick-up some PDP11 equipment. I'm not too
knowledgeable about the PDP11 series and all of the accessories that go with
it, nor do I have a complete list of the goodies at this time. What I'd like
to do though is to get a "complete" system for my collection (which consists
mostly of micro stuff).
Some of the equipment includes several 11/34s, 11/23s, 11/23+, 11/40, 11/05,
etc., RK05/RL01/RL02/RX01/RX02 drives, plus racks and a whole load of other
stuff.
Any guidance here would be appreciated. BTW, this stuff is at Temple
University (for all of those East-coast rescuers).
TIA!
------------------------
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<rcini(a)msn.com>
- ClubWin Charter Member (6)
- MCPS Windows 95/Networking
> Well, finding a composite video point is trivial, therefore.
>
>Inside the modulator can, I fear.
>
>I had another look inside last night. The two metal cans appear to be
>video circuitry (on motherboard) and modulator (separate). They are
>linked by a 4-way ribbon cable of which one conductor is ground. I
>suspect the remaining three of being video, line sync and frame sync.
>(They could, I suppose, be composite mono, U and V but I doubt it)
Assuming that there are no other connections to the 'Modulator' then one of
those wires has to be a power rail. I'd guess (without seeing the device or the
service manual) that the other 2 were luminance (Y) and (PAL-encoded)
chrominance, or possibly composite colour video and audio if it feeds audio
through to the TV.
>> >> What chips _other than the 8048_ are in this device? Is the video side
>> >> custom or does it use one of the many Philips video chipsets? (Philips
>> >> Prestel terminals tend to be stuffed with their Teletext IC's, for
>> >> example...)
>Pretty boring, I'm afraid - 8245 and 6110 plus about 20 TTL chips. I
What the heck are those?
>can't read the numbers of the chips inside the video can unless I
>desolder said can from PCB.
Well, that's what I'd have done by now...
>
>Philip.
-tony
Whilst in a self-induced trance, SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com happened to blather:
>i have this big apple monitor that i need some help with. it's big, beige,
>and heavy with a motorized tilt screen and a db15 connector. i'm having a
>video problem with the monitor. i don't get any kind of raster screen and i
>do not have the special card to run it on my //e. i've tried it on the video
>port of my laser 128 and on my dodgy apple ///, all to no avail. can anyone
>figure out a possible solution? if i cannot get it to work, i'd like to get
>rid of it, but it's so heavy it wouldnt be worth shipping unless you live in
>north carolina.
If it's a sub-miniature DB-15, then that sounds like a PC VGA plug-in. If
it's a normal-sized DB-15, then that sounds like it's a direct-connect for
a later-model Smackintosh. (I say this jokingly, I have one...) When I say
later-model, I'm talking a Mac IIsi or something like that, altho I think
the PowerMacs use that connector as well, and I believe it's compatible. (I
had my Mac IIsi hooked up to the monitor we use for a PowerMac 6100/60 at
work, and it worked fine.)
If you're looking to get rid of it, I would pay shipping to Michigan...
yea, it'd be expensive, but if it's a nice tube, it would make my Mac
happy... (all I have is the base, but it only cost me $5 and it works!) Got
a keyboard & mouse to round out the deal??? ;-)
HTH,
"Merch"
--
Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed,
Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not*
zmerch(a)northernway.net | be your first career choice.
I was sent this email and I figured who better to help this guy out, than
our little group.
===================================================
Return-Path: MajorLeague(a)getthe.net
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:54:10 -0600
From: Major97 <majorleague(a)getthe.net>
Reply-To: majorleague(a)getthe.net
To: idavis(a)comland.com
Subject: Do those disk drives work?
Your disk drives mentioned in your rescue page, you have listed apple II
drives. Would you be willing to part with a couple of them? I would like
to know how much you would want etc. if you sold. I would pay shipping.
I have an apple knockoff (I think it is a pear) I really don't know what
it is but it came with apple IIe stuff. My drives are hatched.
Thanks
Steve
===================================================
I also encouraged him to join the list.
Isaac Davis | Don't throw out that old computer,
idavis(a)comland.com | check out the Classic Computer Rescue List -
indavis(a)juno.com | http://www.comland.com/~idavis/classic/classic.html
Hans Pufal <hans1(a)filan00.grenoble.hp.com> writes:
> The Art of Digital Design, an introduction to top-down design
> by Franklin P. Prosser and David E. Winkel
> Prentice-Hall 1987 ISBN 0-13-046673-5 025
Thanks.
Maybe this was a popular thing to do in the mid-1980s? The
undergraduate computer architecture course (1983 I think, maybe 1984)
I took basically went from gates to a PDP-8-like CPU over the course
of the semester. Somewhere at the beginning I think we spent a
half-hour on the fact that there are different logic families, but we
never touched on that again. (This was a Computer Science course,
Real Hardware seemed to be the province of the Electrical Engineering
department.)
> Talking of 16 bit extensions to the PDP-8, that is what the HP-2116A
> appears to be, anyone konw that processor?
By manuals only I'm afraid, and I spent more time fascinated by the
possibilities of user-developed microcode in the 2100A. The 2116A is
entirely hardwired, with two accumulators, 16-bit word, 32KW memory I
think. Oh, and stable across the same environmental conditions as
other HP instrumentation.
I suggest you webulate over to www.chac.org and look for the
plain-text versions of Engine 2.3 and 2.4. You want to read the
interviews with Barney Oliver and Joe Schoendorf in those issues.
-Frank McConnell
