- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> Sounds bogus. The small laptops using 8080 (actually 8085) were the tand <> M-100s and there were also the Epson and NEC but none were before 1979. Most of the early laptops were either 8085 or z80 as both required less support chips than the 8080 (8080+8224+8228) as the 8080 chip set required three voltages and lots of board space. the 8085 or z80 were single 5v at lower power needs. the 6502 was also popular for the application. <On the subject of early laptops in general, I have heard much in praise <of the Tandy model 100, but I like the Epson HX20 which has everything <you could possibly want in a laptop except a decent sized screen! Tandy improved the 100 with the 102 which has a lager screen. Allison

28 years, 7 months

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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> < Another "cute" blurb, "CP/M-86 is the 16 bit version of the de facto > <industry standard microcomputer operating system, CPM. Once a user > <slips the 8-inch floppy containing CPM-86 into a (IBM) Displaywriter, > <an entirely new world of data processing will open up on the typist's > <desk." Sounds almost pornographic. ; ^ )) > > Call that a snapshot in time before the PC explosion. I like it! I used a Displaywriter occasionally at IBM, but I never knew it had an 8088/86 in it! I didn't even know you could get a general purpose operating system for it. It was a very nice machine, and ran a version of Displaywrite nicer than _any_ of the PC implementations. I'd love to get one for my collection... Well, there you are. A non-IBM-compatible with an 8088/86, and made by IBM too! I would add the FTS series-88 - a very strange British box with an 8088 in it, also running CP/M-86. An 8086 CPU card exists, but the machine was soon replaced by the FTS Series-86. This machine was sold as the "Non-compatible Compatible" - it ran a multi-tasking version of CP/M-86 called Concurrent DOS, sold by a company whose name escapes me, but begins with P (Pegasus?). It ran Lotus-123 from an IBM disk with no complaints, even drawing graphs on the (monochrome) screen. I must get mine working sometime... Now for what Allison was waiting for - a mention of Honeywell :-) When FTS went bust, they sold the design of the series-86 to Honeywell-Bull, who marketed it as the Microsystem Executive. Needless to say it died :-( Philip.

28 years, 7 months

1
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Classic "Laptops"

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> <I've recently heard of someone who told me about an 8080 laptop from > <someone who has been into computers longer than I have. He said that > <there was a laptop... in the 1970's, that was smaller than the origional > <Compaq. It was soupossed to only have a little RAM, and it was used by > <journalists, who would connect with a modem an upload the files. Is > <this true? If so, what on earth ever happened to these? (Does this > <sound like something else... H/PC come to mind? > > Sounds bogus. The small laptops using 8080 (actually 8085) were the tandy > M-100s and there were also the Epson and NEC but none were before 1979. > I did a quick flip through my Kbaud and Byte for 76-80 and there were no > adverts for anything laptop other than a hand terminal that used a 4bit > part. I wonder. A few weeks ago I bought for L1 at a car boot sale a device called a Microscribe 320. (Made by a Welsh company, Microscribe Ltd., but sold with a British Telecom badge.) This is a sub-notebook (7 in square) terminal with built in text editor, 32K battery backed RAM and 40 x 8 character display. Before you all jump on me, yes, I know it was built circa 1983. It is a very nice machine, the only thing wrong with it being the small keyboard. Fortunately I don't touch type - FWIW I use the index and middle fingers of each hand and am as fast as most of the touch typers I know who aren't professional typists. The reason I am replying is that shortly after I posted about it here (and had a brief conversation with Tony Duell about how to power it up) I received an e-mail from one Adrian Godwin, who had seen my posting, and who also had a microscribe, and wanted to compare notes. In the end we concluded that his was an earlier model than mine (less RAM, smaller screen). So when did these start being made? Was there an even earlier model right back in the seventies? I would also like to thank Adrian (if he is reading this) who, when he obtained a Microscribe manual, and discovered it was for mine and not his, sent me a copy for free. The world needs more people like this! On the subject of early laptops in general, I have heard much in praise of the Tandy model 100, but I like the Epson HX20 which has everything you could possibly want in a laptop except a decent sized screen! Philip.

28 years, 7 months

2
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apple rgb monitor problems

by pb14＠leicester.ac.uk

On 9 Nov 97 at 22:54, SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com wrote: > i need some help with an applecolor rgb monitor if anyone can. > does anyone know any way of testing this monitor? Apple have mastered the art of confusing names for monitors. The "original" colour monitor you need for a Mac II series is called the "AppleColor Hi-Resolution RGB Display"; for early Mac II series particular adaptor cards are required for particular monitors, so your adaptor card will not work with an A4 portrait display for example. From about 1990 it was replaced by the "Macintosh 12" RGB Display" which was smaller and lighter, There is a similarly named rgb monitor designed for the Apple IIgs; this is a 12" analog display very similar to the Macintosh display. It works with a horizontal refresh rate of 15.75kHz -- half that supplied by the IIcx video port. > i have one in the > silver-gray colour that matches my mac IIcx yet, i cannot seem to get any > video on it. i have tried using both a laser128 and a //c's rgb output into > the monitor, but the only thing i can get is a deep blue screen with stable > vertical lines with the //c, and a moving blue bar with the laser128 although > they both can do rgb output and i was using the same cable. Isn't the output from the //c and the laser *digital* rgb, not *analog* rgb? You can also be certain that Apple didn't use the same pinouts for the //c and the Mac II series so your cable will be wrong. > when i tested the > monitor with my mac cx which has a 1 bit mono card, i did get video, but was > difficult to read, and i got double images of the desktop. i've already tried > every control accessable on the monitor too. This sounds like the IIgs display to me. I'd hang on to it -- they are very highly regarded -- until a IIgs system turns up... Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk

28 years, 7 months

1
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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> Does anybody but me remember the Byte cover (1976, I think) of a 4-bit <> computer built from transistors, diodes, etc. and wire? (No boards or <> anything). There was a followup picture in the magazine some months <> later after the cat had knocked it off the desk. the first BYTE cover was sept 1976 and there was never such article around then. There are two I remember the first was a terminally simple machine of extreme limitations that illustrated microprogramming (simple TTL) and was very low parts count. The other in the Aug and Sept 1985 Bytes called EGO and was a 16bit general purpose machine using mostly TTL SSI/MSI (74181 was the most complex part). <SSI small scale integration 7400, 7474 are examples and MSI medium scale integration such as 74181 or complex counters.> Allison

28 years, 7 months

4
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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by mark＠cyberlightstudios.com

If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first--Invent the Universe. ---Dr. Carl E. Sagan ---------- From: "Lawrence Walker" <lwalker(a)mail.interlog.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Classic Computer Rescue Squad Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 10:26:08 +0000 > On Sat, 8 Nov 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > 500 years from now, if what I am trying to accomplish with the Vintage > Computer Festival succeeds, the machines which were truly significant from > a social context, meaning the ones which ran the banking system, the > airline system, government, etc. (in other words, the computers which were > the foundation of modern society), will be the ones which we remember, and > the Altair and others of its ilk will be merely novelties. I'd reign in your desire to pidgeonhole computers into "novelties" vs "socially significant" if I were you. Not only is EVERY piece of hardware and software a legacy of the history of computing, but those "novelty" computers (the Commodores, the Altairs, the Apples) were more than just 8 bit precursors to the current wave of desktop technology...they were inextricably linked to the social mileux for whom, and in whose time, they were developed...a sign of the times as it were. Part of the mystique of the "novelty" computers of which you speak is the very fact that the design and function of the computer reflected a historic mindset, the widespread dissemiation and embracing of the IDEA of computing within the masses of society. It would be foolish and shortsighted to try to relegate certian aspects of computing history as "novelty" vs "foundation of modern society". I would remind you that some of the founders of the modern age of computing, architects of those computers you would no doubt find "socially significant", started out peeking and pokeing their way along an 8 bit piece of silicon that shaped far more influential commodities than the banking system or the stock market...it shaped their MINDS. A little respect for the grass roots of the computing age is in order. Mark Tosiello ("Soapbox mode off, Mr. Spock")

28 years, 7 months

3
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New finds and a question

by adam＠merlin.net.au

After a very poor start, my weekend ended up great - I picked up three Apple IIc's (which I didn't want as I already have two) for $10, but they came with some thirty manuals for most of the Apple II range (along with the Osborne Executive) and a number of books on the Apple IIs. Thinking this made for a good day, I was later given a Microbee with the Computer-in-a-Book drive,and a Dick Smith System 80. The Microbee was an Australian Z80 CP/M system, highly sucessful both as kits (as they originally were) and complete systems, especially in schools. I had been searching for one for a while, but had very little luck - everyone I knew who had one was too attached to it to let it go. The System 80 was a TRS-80 Model 1 clone, with some interesting modifications - most notably an inbuilt tape deck. Another computer I had been specifically looking for. :) Anyway, as to my question. The System 80 works fine, but it seems it needs a cable to connect to the monitor. The monitor uses a standard TV aerial connector, but the computer has a DIN. Fortunately I found a technical manual for the computer in one of my piles of manuals at home, and it lists the pin outs - one +5 volt, one ground, and one video output. It also has a diagram of the cable, and it seems it is just a plain cable with different plugs at each end. Knowing nothing about electronics, it seems to me that the TV plug has only two contacts, not three - anyone know how I make the cable? Or know where I might find a replacment? I'm sure this is a really stupid question but I am a mere programmer - technical stuff is way out of my league. Thanks heaps, Adam.

28 years, 7 months

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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by mark＠cyberlightstudios.com

If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first--Invent the Universe. ---Dr. Carl E. Sagan ---------- From: William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Classic Computer Rescue Squad Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 23:21:21 -0500 (EST) > > On Sat, 8 Nov 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > I'd reign in your desire to pidgeonhole computers into "novelties" vs > "socially significant" if I were you. Not only is EVERY piece of hardware Next time you want to turn your flamethrower on, please aim at the right person. You quoted me for something I did not say. Damn software anyway.......would be nice if I learned to read, wouldn't it? Public apology hereby humbly expressed to William Donzelli, for inexplicably confusing him with the author of the quote to which I responded. Again, my mistake! Mark Tosiello William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

28 years, 7 months

2
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Classic "Laptops"

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I've recently heard of someone who told me about an 8080 laptop from <someone who has been into computers longer than I have. He said that <there was a laptop... in the 1970's, that was smaller than the origional <Compaq. It was soupossed to only have a little RAM, and it was used by <journalists, who would connect with a modem an upload the files. Is <this true? If so, what on earth ever happened to these? (Does this <sound like something else... H/PC come to mind? Sounds bogus. The small laptops using 8080 (actually 8085) were the tandy M-100s and there were also the Epson and NEC but none were before 1979. I did a quick flip through my Kbaud and Byte for 76-80 and there were no adverts for anything laptop other than a hand terminal that used a 4bit part. I happen to have a Epson geneva (PX8) but that was years later(1984). Allison

28 years, 7 months

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Old stuff

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<If any of those network cards ARE token-ring and have BNC connectors, I highly likely as IBM was a strong proponent for token ring. <would love to buy a couple. I got an old Token ring MAU several years ago <that has BNC ports and would like to try it out. Can't tell you how many <people have flat out denied that Token Ring was ever carried over coax! <But the existence of the MAU is proof enough that at one time it was done. Obviously they never saw any of the WANG system that used it as the default interconnect to EVERYTHING even POS terminals! Allison

28 years, 7 months

2
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Finds & Questions

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

Added a couple of things to my collection today: Compaq 386 Lunchbox (comes up with a 1790 (iirc) Disk 0 error) -- $35 Data General One -- $20 2 SE/30 logic boards, new in Apple service boxes -- $10 (probably put these on ebay.) HP DDS Dat drive -- $25 HP 75D with 9114 disk drive -- $25 My questions concern this last one. The computer itself is about 5" deep by 10" wide by about an inch thick. It has room for three expansion modules (has two: "Barcode Reader" and "HP 75 I/O") and four connectors on the rear. Two are in and out to the 9114, one is power (I'm pretty sure) but I'm not sure about the last. Perhaps input for the barcode wand? Anyway, if anyone has *any* info about it, I'd love to hear from you. I tried HP's site and all I got was that it's discontinued, not supported, and replaced by a newer handheld or something. It was described as a "notebook BASIC Computer", btw. Thanks in advance! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 7 months

3
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Hard Drive Bible

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:11 AM 11/7/97 -0500, you wrote: >I 'd like to commend and thank Matt Pritchard for shipping the Hard Drive I'll second that! Thanks! (P.S., mine came in on Friday.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 7 months

1
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HD Floppies in DD Drives

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I thought that a HD disk would simply have a denser coating of magnetic <material applied evenly over the entire surface of the disk. I don't <see why this should cause problems for a DD drive. However, a few <questions come to mind. Is the magnetic coating of a different Corcivity, the amount of field needed to chage the magnetic state. the HD media requires different field strength and it affects the ability to record on the other media. Simply put the head, media and rotation rate are specific and altering the parameters of one munge the other. <Since some of the software for my "old" (first generation PC) computers <is on 5 1/4" disks of dubious condition, I would like to make copies <onto new disks. Since HD disks are still readily available and cheap, I <thought this would be an ideal way to do so. Reading from one and writing to another is ok bt the drive used should match the media. <My question is: can I plug a Double Density drive into the same <connector in my modern PC and use it for my old disks? I know I will <have to change my BIOS setting, but is there anything else I need to <consider? Maybe, depends on the controller installed and the version of dos. Acopy of upgrading and repairing PCs <QUE publications> would be helpful to you on this and other PC related problems. Allison

28 years, 7 months

1
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apple rgb monitor problems

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

i need some help with an applecolor rgb monitor if anyone can. does anyone know any way of testing this monitor? i have one in the silver-gray colour that matches my mac IIcx yet, i cannot seem to get any video on it. i have tried using both a laser128 and a //c's rgb output into the monitor, but the only thing i can get is a deep blue screen with stable vertical lines with the //c, and a moving blue bar with the laser128 although they both can do rgb output and i was using the same cable. when i tested the monitor with my mac cx which has a 1 bit mono card, i did get video, but was difficult to read, and i got double images of the desktop. i've already tried every control accessable on the monitor too. unlike my vga monitors, this one does not produce a raster screen when no video cable is connected. is there anything else i can try short of round-filing the monitor? david

28 years, 7 months

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More on VAXstation problem

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Hi, Well, I'm hoping someone can give me some advice on this, but thanks to extensive use of DejaNews I've a bad feeling I know what the problem is. Here is the boot sequence. {Asks to select Language} {Asks US or UK} Performin normal system tests. 7..6..5..4..3.. Tests completed Loading system software. 2.. ?54 RETRY 2.. When it's coming up it sounds like the HD spins up, and then as soon as it hits the "Loading system software" it sounds like it spins down.

28 years, 7 months

2
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Laser Computers

by veslec＠interalpha.co.uk

Hi there While searching for information on the Laser Computer(Video Technology Computer Ltd) I came across your letters I have a laser laptop LT321 which is in desprate nead of memory If you have any information regarding the computer or the memory it would be most helpful Ian (uk)

28 years, 7 months

1
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Space problems and Laser 128ex

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-11-08 09:01:35 EST, Alan Richards put forth: > > Does anyone have any ideas about this machine, specificaly I would like to > know how to break into the BASIC. On the Apple, I press CRTL and reset, but > this doesn't work on the Laser. I have just the regular 128 and it basically should work and act the same as a //c. The machine was supposedly 99% apple compatible, but I needed the 1% compatibility when aol supported the apple ][ and it wouldnt work with my laser! <control>-<reset> should work, but i've noticed you cannot do it too quick. let go of the control key first, then reset. to get into the builtin "control panel" to setup your ports, press <control>+"open apple"+<p> i think that's what it is. david

28 years, 8 months

1
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What is this MV Board?

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Hi All, Despite the fact I haven't been able to get my VAXstation to boot, I decided to take an inventory of what is in it. I've come up with one board I'm not 100% sure as to what it is, it's a memory board, but what size? The board in question is a "M7608-AP". I know what an -AA (2Mb) or -BA (4Mb) are, but what is a -AP board? Oh, and yes I'm sure it said -AP not -AA :^) Thanks, Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 8 months

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[Fwd: Apollo books to give away]

by hansp＠columbia.digiweb.com

Found this on the web, thought someone would be interested Regards, -- Hans B. Pufal : <mailto:hansp@digiweb.com> Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : <http://www.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/> _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_

28 years, 8 months

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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<It had no RAM, clock, or anything, it was simply an ALU wired to 2 banks o <4 switches, and a rotary switch configured to select one of the 8 or 16 <operations supported by the ALU. If I'd built it I'm sure I would've tired <of 4 bit boolean operations pretty quickly. < <Kevin But the step from that to a rudimentary computer was fairly short. What was missing was the sequential(or microprogrammed) logic to get from switches to Fetch an instruction from memory and Execute it. The simple machine in Byte had the microprogrammed part of the system to do that albeit crudely. What was significant was how few parts it took to do that. To make a point. The DEC RX01 and RX02 disk systems use a crude microprogrammed computer to do all the disk formatting and control work. The RX01 more specifically is easier to understand as the biggest chips used are bipolar proms, 7489 (16x4 rams) and a 74181 alu chip. Its logic contained on one board of 16"x6" and if the RX01 specific logic were left out it would be 2/3rds that. It could be programmed to behave differently and I have used the basic logic design to create other similar high speed specialized controllers. the later rx02 is similar but they use the 2901 bit slice with is really a 16x4 ram, ALU and gating logic in one chip. Oh, the alu is identical to the 74181. FYI: the RX01 controller has 5 basic microinstructions as it's all that were needed to implement the needed programming. General purpose no, it didn't need to be It had to be fast enough to run bits at 500khz. Needless to say that Byte article I refer to would be of interest as it's simple enough to explain and build with current components. I plan to dig for it but I am not sure I still have it. the latter 1985 article is more ambitious and most would have trouble fabricating it as it's a fairly large number of chips (60-100 ttl). The design would have to be revamped to use more common chips and then simulated/breadboarded and tested for logic/timing errors. A PCboard for it would be several cards and likely several hundred dollars for the set in small quantity. Then there is programming as it's a unique machine with no existant programming available. That means cross assembler would be required to get initial code going for a basic monitor program. the article is a worthwhile read as it does explain how a computer is devloped and composed. It's in Byte September (VOL 10, number9) and October (vol 10, number 10) and they are available from BYTE at $3.00 each. I have no connection to byte other than having those on the shelf and handy. I've used them to present on computer design. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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Classic "Laptops"

by engine＠chac.org

At 00:21 11/10/97 +1030, you wrote: >>OK. By the way, speaking of "sub-laptops", does anyone know what kind of models >>might be good for me? I just pretty much want to be able to take notes.... >>are there any classics that have a keyboard large >>enough to type on(not two-finger typing.) ? Where can I get one of these Radio >>Shack 100's? There is a great machine called the AlphaSmart Pro, which is an RS 100 with a faster processor, PC and Mac data ports, etc. They're almost unheard of because they're sold only through the educational channel, but you can buy >from the manufacturer. I think it's $295. If you have more money, want a real screen, and go for really gorgeous looks, Apple has finally started selling the eMate to individuals -- basically it's a Newton with a screen and keyboard in one piece. It's $800 and only comes in jade-green. If I had any real money I'd buy either of these tomorrow. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 8 months

2
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VAXstation II, now different problem

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com> <OK, now I've got the HD plugged in and am hoping things will go better. <Foolish me. Now it just sits there on "2". Doesn't even give me the "?54 <RETRY" message, it simply sounds like it starts to spin down the HD, and <then immediatly spins it back up. It's been sitting like this for a while <now. Nothing. Even the LED on the back says "2". < <Oh, at least I found out I've got an RD53-A HD. Is there any difference <between a RD53 HD and a RD53-A HD, or are they the same thing? Zane, You have a bad RD53 like I said yesterday. The controller cannot/does not command the drive to spin up/down as its an MFM drive. The cause for spin down on RD53s is the head is not finding the servo track so it spins down and retrys spinning up and finding the servo track. There is a fix for some of them... The problem on the Micropolus 1325s is the head meck when powered down sits against a rubber bumper and gets stuck there as the rubber decays. The result is the head can't move. Possible fix, open the HDA (yes take the cover off) while running and move then head manually till it aquires the servo, put the cover and backup to tape if there is an OS on it. I have one drive where I put some sticky lable on the bumper to salvage the drive and it's held up for six months so far. The bumper in located in the voice coil positioner and is visible to the eye. The head arm sits agaisnt it when powered down. FYI: if you open it in a generally clean place ther is little risk of contamination and even these "sealed" drives contain a internal air filter to remove contaiminents. Generally RD53s with spin down not reliable and should be replaced. An RD53 is a microplus 1325 71mb MFM drive. For microvax use a RD54, 159mb MFM drive is more reliable an provides enough space. VMS will fit on a RD53 if DECwindows and system libraries are not installed leaving about 10mb free and makes for a cramped system. An RD54 will permit a full VMS install and show have at least 20mb free making a very useable system. A two drive system using a RD54 and an RD52(31mb), 53(71) or RD54(159mb) for the second drive is a very good ssytem and can support useful work. FYII: A VS2000 (a tiny microvax) is handy as it contains rom code that can format and/or verify MFM drives. They also make pretty good VMS or Ultrix systems in their own right of they have at least 4mb of ram installed. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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VAXstation II tapes

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<How would one go about getting the OS off of the CD onto the Vax? Sounds <like my best bet is to try to get a SCSI controller for this puppy (at <least I gather from my research that SCSI controllers are available). Any <idea's on who sells such things, and for how much? Two ways, RRD40 or RRD50. Any scsi controller you use must emulate a MSCP device or the system will not know how to boot. The VMS cd is bootable. The SCSI I'm using is a CMD C-200TM and it seems to work ok. The problem is that an RRD40/50 CDrom will cost $100-200 and a SCSI controller will not be cheap either. method 2, get someone to cut a tape from the CD using their system. <BTW if you've seen the last post I had about the HD not being connected, <your couple of posts make me wonder if this wasn't done to get it to boot <off of a network. Possibly but, not likely. You can casue a net boot by setting the drive offline from the front pannel and the boot roms will try the nest device or you can do a >>>b QNA0: telling it to use the network adaptor if installed(an M7504 or 7516). My guess is that the Microvax was gutted for the disks as RD53s are generally small for them. <Don't worry, I've no intention of letting loose of the manuals. I never <let loose of manuals, unless it's something I've got multiples of. They'r <great manuals from what I've seen, the Hardware Information manual is <definitly well done. A little light in areas, but all in all very good. If you have the hardware manuals you may not have the orange or grey wall. What's that? The full VMS doc set is atleast 17 volumes of the 1.5-2" looseleaf binder size and they are chock full of everything about the OS and device programming info. Orange corrosponds to V4 and Grey is the V5. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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1
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VAXstation II, now different problem

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Sun Nov 9 18:18:51 1997 <Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) < id AA07454; Sun, 9 Nov 1997 13:23:39 -0500 <Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) < by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMT < id KAA06738; Sun, 9 Nov 1997 10:19:54 -0800 <Received: from mx4.u.washington.edu (mx4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.5]) < by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMT < id KAA20288 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Sun, 9 Nov 1997 10: <Received: from rm-rstar.sfu.ca (root(a)rm-rstar.sfu.ca [142.58.120.21]) < by mx4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP < id KAA07962 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Sun, 9 Nov 1997 10:19:07 <Received: from gumby.rfnet.sfu.ca (gumby.rfnet.sfu.ca [192.75.246.242]) by < id KAA08925 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> (from mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca); Sun <Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971109101851.02ff238c(a)ferrari.sfu.ca> <Date: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 10:18:51 -0800 <Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu <Precedence: bulk <From: Kevin McQuiggin <mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca> <To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washingto <Subject: Re: VAXstation II, now different problem <In-Reply-To: <199711091625.AA06623(a)world.std.com> <Mime-Version: 1.0 <Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" <X-Sender: mcquiggi(a)ferrari.sfu.ca <X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN <Status: R <This RD53 spindown problem can also be caused by a spindle brake that does <not retract fully when the drive is powered up! It rubs against the spindl <and the drive shuts down. I fixed this by simply undoing the screw holding <the brake solenoid and moving it back a little bit. My drive has been <running for well over a year following this fix. Worth checking for but spindown due to stuck head positioner is THE most common problem with 1325 drives. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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Building A Computer from Scratch (was:Classic Computer Rescue Squad)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: HOTZE <photze(a)batelco.com.bh> <That's what I said about 3 weeks ago. We should make a computer, possibly <our own design, from common components. Was anyone here into processor <engineering in the "early days", if so, I have a pretty good idea where (if <want) we can get a board-maker for about $200, which might also be able to <single-layer chips. Also, we could probably get our hands on some of Intel <old stuff... they had a page for that on their site, but I forget where. < We could use components that were marking points in history... a 5.25" <floppy, for example. Dear Hotze, Your out of touch with the world. There are people already doing this. It is doable though the price range for the boards varies alot depending on size and quantity. There is a chap in AUS that has the P112 a complete z180 system on a board with floppy and serial ports that runs CP/m-80 like the wind. You can build a system easy enough using available parts from mail order houses like JAMCO or JDR. Possible CPUs (looking at latest catalog) are 6800, 6809, 68000, Z80, 8080, 8085, 8088 all of which are still very much available along with the needed RAM, Eprom and TTL glue logic. The parts thing, small quantites (10-100 pieces) of most ttl and micros are not a problem but production quanities (1000s+) generally means going for surface mount and modern pars to ASSURE parts availability. There is not a lot of magic to taking a 6800 or z80 and making a system of it. The real work is board layout and all the little details to get it in production. I can say this as a designer of some 20+ years that still does exactly this kind of thing. Copying an older processor design like say PDP-8 runs the risk of copyrights and patents. Doing a scratch design means amassing support for a common design and then there would be no code available as a unique design. Cost to design vs return are problems as commitment for capital to make it and kit the parts are sufficient to dismay most. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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Old stuff

by scottk5＠ibm.net

On 1997-11-09 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to scottk5(a)ibm.net >X-Sender: ward(a)news2.cnct.com >X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN >Kip Crosby wrote: >> At 03:34 11/8/97 GMT, you wrote: >> >....in my experience >> >with IBM network cards, if they're a round (i.e. BNC) connector, >> >they're probably the old "baseband" stuff that uses lots of coax >>cable >and a hub/amplifier, and work only with IBM PC-LAN Program >>and >NetBEUI....the number 2Mb/sec comes >> >to mind.... >> Are we talking about Arcnet here? When I think 2Mb/sec, BNC >>connector, and 8-bit bus, I think Arcnet, but there may have been >others.... If the cards are _branded_ IBM, chances are well over >ten to one that they are >Token Ring. IBM never touched Arcnet, and was hesitant about >Ethernet. -- >Ward Griffiths If any of those network cards ARE token-ring and have BNC connectors, I would love to buy a couple. I got an old Token ring MAU several years ago that has BNC ports and would like to try it out. Can't tell you how many people have flat out denied that Token Ring was ever carried over coax! But the existence of the MAU is proof enough that at one time it was done. Kirk Scott scottk5(a)ibm.net Kirk Scott dynasoar(a)mindspring.com Net-Tamer V 1.09.2 - Test Drive

28 years, 8 months

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Sun keyboard/mouse

by rcini＠email.msn.com

I got my Sun 3/50 working the other day (bad flyback transformer in the monitor), but now I need a keyboard/mouse. I think that I need a "type 3" keyboard and a mouse. Does anyone have a spare to sell? Also, does anyone know the specs of the "shoebox" external hard drive? TIA! Rich Cini/WUGNET <rcini(a)msn.com> - ClubWin! Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 8 months

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Classic "Laptops"

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:47 AM 11/9/97 +0000, you wrote: >I've recently heard of someone who told me about an 8080 laptop from >someone who has been into computers longer than I have. He said that >there was a laptop... in the 1970's, that was smaller than the origional >Compaq. It was soupossed to only have a little RAM, and it was used by >journalists, who would connect with a modem an upload the files. Is >this true? If so, what on earth ever happened to these? (Does this >sound like something else... H/PC come to mind? That would be the Radio Shack Model 100. 8085 processor, 8K-32K RAM, simple text editor, basic, and comm pgm built in. See: <http://www.m100.com/> Andy Diller's site <http://www.the-dock.com/club100.html> Club 100 <http://home.northernway.net/~zmerch/signupform.html> Model 100 Mailing List <http://acme.nug.net:80/~tmne/> Tri-Mike Network East I love 'em myself. I'm working on an alphapaging program so I can use one as a dedicated paging station. There are, btw, *still* a lot of journalists who use them, especially in areas where reliability is important. (They have no moving parts.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 8 months

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Classic "Laptops"

by adam＠merlin.net.au

>OK. By the way, speaking of "sub-laptops", does anyone know what kind of models >might be good for me? I just pretty much want to be able to take notes; etc. >Windows CE is cheap enough for me, but they're keyboards aren't for REAL >people. >Possibly an Apple Newton? Or are there any classics that have a keyboard large >enough to type on(not two-finger typing.) ? Where can I get one of these Radio >Shack 100's? An alternative to the 100 is the Amstrad Notepad (NC-100), which I found to be pretty good for notes, and is somewhat more recent. Not that recent, though - it uses the Z80A. Adam.

28 years, 8 months

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Sorry, I need to get this to PG Manney, there

by manney＠nwohio.com

>>> I'm new at collecting classics. What is a VIC-20? >> >>The VIC-20 was Commodore's first computer...2K of RAM (I think), did sounds >>and color TV screen stuff. > >Actually it's far from thier first. There was several models of the PET, Whoops! of course...and didn't they make a calculator or two? >and another earlier one whose name escapes me (KIT?). Unexpanded it has a >whopping 3583 bytes. I know for a fact it could be expanded to 16k, and I >think there was eventually a larger one than that. The VIC-20 was my only >computer from '82-'86 unfortunatly I gave it away in '90, and I finally got >one to replace it today!

28 years, 8 months

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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by carl.friend＠stoneweb.com

On Fri, 7 Nov 1997 18:23:51 -0800 (PST), Mr. Ismail remarked: > Ok, first of all I'm pretty amazed at the 3rd grade level of > mentality being demonstrated by the whiners complaining about my > "foul" language. You seem to hint that I was whining about the language, which is simply not the case. The way one uses language states a lot about who they are - and yes, sometimes this requires profanity. However, let's save the "heavy language" for times when we really need it (like when you drop a mini on your foot :-) ). > Perhaps I should have been more specific and stated that from a > mass-consumer marketing standpoint, the Nova is not significant. In this case, the man has a valid point - from one perspective. If one takes that perspective to an extreme, however, we find that ENIAC wasn't relevant (only one ever built), none of the Zuse machines amounted to anything, the ABC was meaningless, and the IBM 360 was unimportant. There's more to a machine that makes it historically important than how many were sold or produced. Was the STRETCH important (a half dozen or so)? How about the PDP-10 (under a thousand)? Mass marketing is not the gauge of importance, especially in a social context. Remember - the individuals who designed the machines that _were_ mass marketed were brought up knowing about computers, and those machines most certainly weren't mass-market devices. > At any rate, why is there concern that the Nova will never be wanted > until some newspaper runs an article on it? The argument is > pointless. Whether Novas are "wanted" is immaterial to the argument. Folks are now virtually unaware of a piece of history, and an important one at that. It's also a piece of history that's fast disappearing, which is a rotten shame. > So there's no market for it. Boo hoo. Do multi-thousand dollar speculative prices on Altairs make them more "historic" or "valuable" than a PDP-5 (predecessor of the -8)? There's more to be calculated into a "value" than the current market price, which all too frequently is out of line with reality. > Nobody required Tim to take on 5000 lbs worth of stuff [...] Nope. Nobody did. That's one of the reasons I have respect for the man. He knows machines worth saving, and is willing to take the time and (not incosiderable) effort to do so. > If Tim was realistic he'd realize the practical implications involved > in hauling a ton of equipment ANYWHERE on the continent, let alone > across national borders. He is realistic about it - I've chatted with him about it privately. He realises fully what moving that amount of gear means. So do I and another chap out East who are moving a good quarter-ton all the way across a continent. > If the majority of kids in America had a picture of a Nova tacked to > their wall, the newspapers might have run a story on one. Do you know who I'm speaking of? Hint: he designed one of the early mass-market computers that you prize so highly. > So Carl, why did you just mention the most popular of personal > computers? Put bluntly - shock value. I used that list as a calculated way of getting folks' attention, and perhaps, just perhaps, of getting them to "smell the coffee". To reiterate - it takes more to make a machine important than how many copies were sold. Cheers. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | |________________________________________________|_____________________|

28 years, 8 months

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Trash

by Zeus334＠aol.com

So, what do you people think I should do when I just can't keep a computer much longer? I don't want to trash them, but things like XTs, 286s, etc? What can I do but throw them away when I have no room? Another question: does anyone have a logic board for a Mac Color Classic? I know it's pretty new, but this is the only place I stand a chance of getting one under $50. I found a Color Classic, and some moron smashed the display and ripped out the logic board. I can use an external screen, but what about the logic board? A related matter: ROM for a Mac IIx?

28 years, 8 months

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STuff

by info＠msnyc.org

I have a bunch of wyse 60 terminals, a couple of 386's, an old printer and various boards etc. Anyone interested. "Janet Paganelli" <info(a)msnyc.org>

28 years, 8 months

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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> The Nova will never be featured in the newspapers because it is not a <> socially significant computer. No more (or less) so than PDP-11s that it competed against. <Ever read, say, _Soul of a New Machine_? Good read, still have my copy! Once upon a time there were many computer companies in Massachusetts and during the life of the pdp-8, PDP-11 and the VAX there was Data General trying to also carve a niche in the minicomputer market. This is significant as most of action preceeds 1978. To put that in perspective by '78 the altair was two years old and MITS starting to crumble, IMSI was starting to peak, TRS-80 was new, AppleII was there as well, SS50 bus machines were strong with SWTP and the new Smoke Signal Broadcasting Company. The PC would be three years away. <"socially significant computer" is, I'm not willing to let anything <I consider to be significant go to the scrap metal dealers if I can <avoid it. Computers each and every have significance, some because of new concepts, new markets or in a few cases the scams and swindles behind them! There were many unremarkable computers made and many while noteable were really junk! Hey you forgot: SBCs <single board computers> are hardly ever noted here. Most often they are simple minimum systems featuring the makers CPU or chip sets. Some of note are the EVK68<ami-6800>, Motorola 6800D1, 6800D2, National SC/MP<isp8a-500>, Cosmac ELF<1802>, INTEL SDK80<8080>, SDK85<8085> and SDK88<8088>, IMSAI IMP48<8035>, Technico Super Starter<TI9900>, are samples of what I mean<some I have>. Most of these were not expandable to full systems and were really aimed at the hobbiest/engineer to show off the chips or provide a working example to build off of. Others like the IMP-48 were complete systems intended for control system use or for one up embedded applications or quick prototypes. If I could say one thing about all of the arguments... Been there, done that! I even have a few of the t-shirts that are still not rags yet. How many were at PCC'76 on the boardwalk? Allison

28 years, 8 months

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Old stuff

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

If it's possible, could I take a IBM dot-matrix (or any other dot-matrix)? By the way, I've tried all the computer retailers in my area, and they don't have any classics. Any other places I should look? Thanks, Tim D. Hotze ---------- From: Zeus334(a)aol.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Old stuff Date: Saturday, November 08, 1997 2:16 AM In a certain supply room, there are in storage some computers of interest to me. There used to be some XTs and PCs, but they were given to a school. The stuff that's still there: A ton of printers, generally IBM dot-matrix A ton of manuals and books, including manuals to Quattro-Pro, the manuals to some of the IBM printers, etc. Also, books on C and pascal A few cartons of floppies, with the original disks to DOS 3.3, and a bunch of programs I have never heard of. About 15 IBM network cards. I can't tell what they are, but they are brown full- length eight bit things with round connectors on the back. An IBM System/74, with three terminals. I believe that the administration will part with all of these without much difficulty. I could personally use the first 4 items. The System/74 is about the size of a closet, and I doubt I would find much use for it (If only I had room...) I know nothing about it, and I would appreciate if you people would tell me what the heck a System/74 is. It has a big floppy drive (14" or 8") built in to the front panel, mounted on its side.....

28 years, 8 months

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Trash

by COAKLEY＠AC.GRIN.EDU

> So, what do you people think I should do when I just can't keep a computer > much longer? I don't want to trash them, but things like XTs, 286s, etc? What > can I do but throw them away when I have no room? You can almost always find somebody who can use an extra computer. Schools, non-profit organizations, somebody will want your old machines, especially if you have a bit of software to go with them. If you don't want 'em, give 'em away. In fact, I seem to recall a group of Lisas (?) that some on the list were interested in being donated to a school for developmentally disabled children. -- Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley(a)ac.grin.edu Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH It is good to rock. It is very good to rock wearing a big ass pumpkin on your head. It is very, very good if that pumpkin is on fire. --Jessica Stern

28 years, 8 months

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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by carl.friend＠stoneweb.com

On Sat, 8 Nov 1997 11:15:17 -0600 (CST), Mr. Seagraves was heard to remark: > We should build a computer from discrete components, just to operate > one. And connect it to the Internet. Of course, we'd never finish > in out lifetimes, and it would fill a room, but it would be awful > cool! I know, personally, of a chap in Germany who is, at this moment, putting the finishing touches on a modern-day vacuum-tube computer. I'm looking forward to seeing the designs and writing a simulator for it so we may all have fun. Computers aren't all _that_ hard to design and build! Just remember that you don't _need_ all the instruction-set bloat that's so common nowadays. Think RISC. Of course, before there was CISC/RISC there was... well "RISC". The first time I heard of RISC the though that popped into my mind was: "Finally! Back to basics!". ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | |________________________________________________|_____________________|

28 years, 8 months

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PC/AT reference

by Aperiodic＠aol.com

Speaking of reference manuals, does anyone have any information / insights into a Visual Technologies Commuter? Manf in 1984, it uses two Intel chips (8086 and 8088) with a plethora of RAM chips not to mention at least four program subroutines. The manufacturer seems to have disowned this particular unit since two people in their tech department have not heard of it. Thanks in advance Sam

28 years, 8 months

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PC/AT reference

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Not yet a classic, but does anyone have a {spare} copy of the "Technical Reference Personal Computer AT"? This is the tech ref guide for the original IBM PC/AT, published by IBM (I'm guessing in a gray fabric binder). TIA! Rich Cini/WUGNET <rcini(a)msn.com> Charter ClubWin! Member MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking

28 years, 8 months

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Stuff Available

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Hi All: Here are some odds and ends available for offers and cost of shipping: 1. DG color monitor, model 6423, 15" 2. Sun 2/50 with 17" mono monitor 3. Sun 17" mono monitor Please email me if you're interested. I'm in Vancouver, BC. Kevin --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca

28 years, 8 months

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Classic "Laptops"

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I've recently heard of someone who told me about an 8080 laptop from someone who has been into computers longer than I have. He said that there was a laptop... in the 1970's, that was smaller than the origional Compaq. It was soupossed to only have a little RAM, and it was used by journalists, who would connect with a modem an upload the files. Is this true? If so, what on earth ever happened to these? (Does this sound like something else... H/PC come to mind?

28 years, 8 months

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VAXstation II, now different problem

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Hi, I _THINK_ I found the problem that I was having. It appears that the HD cables weren't attached, only the power (weird that). Just prior to this I found out about the LED counter on the back of the unit and found that it was sitting on "1" despite the fact the counter on the screen was "2". According to the Hardware manual this means that the bootstrap device might not contain bootable system software. OK, now I've got the HD plugged in and am hoping things will go better. Foolish me. Now it just sits there on "2". Doesn't even give me the "?54 RETRY" message, it simply sounds like it starts to spin down the HD, and then immediatly spins it back up. It's been sitting like this for a while now. Nothing. Even the LED on the back says "2". Oh, at least I found out I've got an RD53-A HD. Is there any difference between a RD53 HD and a RD53-A HD, or are they the same thing? Anyone have any ideas on this? It's starting to look to me as if someone pulled out the original HD to put in a machine that needed a good one. Then they put the bad on in this machine, but for some reason took the time to plug in the power. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 8 months

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Old stuff

by engine＠chac.org

At 03:34 11/8/97 GMT, you wrote: >....in my experience >with IBM network cards, if they're a round (i.e. BNC) connector, >they're probably the old "baseband" stuff that uses lots of coax cable >and a hub/amplifier, and work only with IBM PC-LAN Program and >NetBEUI....the number 2Mb/sec comes >to mind.... Are we talking about Arcnet here? When I think 2Mb/sec, BNC connector, and 8-bit bus, I think Arcnet, but there may have been others.... ____________________________________________________________ Kip Crosby, honcho, mechanic and sole proprietor, Kip's Garage http://www.kipsgarage.com: rumors, tech tips and philosophy for the trenches Coming Spring '98: The Windows 98 Bible by Kip Crosby and Fred Davis!

28 years, 8 months

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HP75D

by engine＠chac.org

At 01:45 11/8/97 -0600, you wrote: >HP 75D with 9114 disk drive -- $25 >....Anyway, if anyone has *any* info about it, I'd love to hear from you. I >tried HP's site and all I got was that it's discontinued, not supported, and >replaced by a newer handheld.... The 75D, demonstrating a logic rare in HP model numbers, is the immediate successor of the 75C, often described as "HP's first fully portable computer." They were, IIRC, made in Singapore and not anywhere near as common as the later HP handhelds; this was one of those cases where HP saw the light bulb before the customers did. The 75x is not pricey, as you discovered, but not easy to find, and undoubtedly significant. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 8 months

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