I found a guy on comp.sys.apple2 selling //gs systems. $125 + S/H for a very
clean ROM.03 version with both 51/4 and 31/2 floppy drives, an RGB monitor,
keyboard, and all cables.
Since this is my first time looking at the //gs's, how does that price
sound? He also has ROM.01 versions.
Rich Cini/WUGNET
Charter ClubWin! Member
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
<From: Zeus334(a)aol.com
<Is there any way that CP/M is better than MS-DOS? i.e. does it provide
<anything that DOS doesn't?
CP/M is a generic but there are distinct flavors so...
First off it's not a MS product and sources can be had. For the
8080/z80 crowd there is literally a mountain of free software out there.
For the 8088/6 and 80x86 family MS managed to snuff it out before much
was developed. CPM-86 uses a different directory than MSDOS.
Now... there are CPM for PC products like CCPM, DRdos7 and OpenDOS
and they are dos replacements based off the outgrowth of CP/M-86.
Caldara is one source. They offer things dos didn't do and most are
available as sources.
Allison
> Is there any way that CP/M is better than MS-DOS? i.e. does it provide
> anything that DOS doesn't?
One thing I've always really really missed in MS-DOS is the IOBYTE. I've done
enought whacky wild things with the IOBYTE (debugging a program running on one
screen by interacting with the debugger on another, interacting with a user on
one terminal while drawing pictures on a Tek 4010, even a serial mouse-based
dorky little sketch program) that I really miss it.
But by far the absolutely most important thing CP/M does better than MS-DOS is
be hardware independent. The CP/M community isn't tied to one hardware
platform like the MS-DOS community is. Sure, there _used_ to be wild and
interesting MS-DOS machines, but you can no longer run even the most basic
software on anything that doesn't have memory mapped video in a certain
location, a pair of 8259 interrupt controllers, 8250 UARTs, a particular
keyboard controller, etc.
I'm split about whether CP/M's filesystem or MS-DOS's file system is worse.
FAT sucks big time (especially FAT12), but at least it doesn't have to go
searching through the entire directory every 16KB. Of course, given exactly
how much FAT sucks, it's usually only one day a week or so that I think CP/M's
filesystem is worse than MS-DOS's...
Roger Ivie
ivie(a)cc.usu.edu
Does anybody need some old Mac Software (great for all of those
"classic" macs that don't have the memory for system >= 6). Lots of
great stuff that I just can't bring myself to toss out, but which I will
*never* use again.
If you want it badly enough to pay for shipping, plus a token $1 for my
trouble, email me.
-mark
<thompson(a)tgsoft.com>
p.s. Includes lightspeed C, kriya neon, microsoft multiplan and borland reflex
Well; on the case; it just says "Zenith"; I believe. It's a square design;
with two horizontally-located 5 1/2" bays; occupied by some kind of black
disk drive. One of the computers IS a Zenith 286; w/ 20MB HDD; 2 FDDs; etc.
and a CGA (EGA?) monitor. The others are Wangs.... not really too peachy
either; but they seem to run like 286's. Of course; at the Embassy; we've
all got our Pentiums; our Windows 95 w/ a Windows NT server.....
But the HDD is just DEAD; from what I can tell. I'd just want to
replace that; hardware-transparently if possible; but if not.... I've got
all my life.
Thanks for the advice,
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: Donation For School Wanted
>>malfuctioning PCs that I know of. Remember; this is for a high school;
>>for >the Department of Defence dependants; and a few others, but their
>>funding is >not... ideal. So if you could please just send a MFM HDD,
>>or; if you have
>
>I can guarentee that, the whole base in Bahrain isn't that great. I just
>happened to realize something, are these 286's "Zenith 248's"? If so they
>can be a real pain to add anything to. The DOD had ton's of these, back in
>'87 the government was getting them for about $1500 apiece. Horrible
>design, but I've got "fond" memories of them :^)
>
> Zane
>
>
>| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
>| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
>| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
>+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
>| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
>| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
>| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
>| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |
>
>
No idea how many Australians are on this list, but I have just been offered
3 CPC6128's with colour monitors. I am thinking I could do with one (both
of the others I own have some faults) and would be willing to pick up the
others if anyone is after one. They'll cost me around $30 each, though - a
good price (they are normally around $50 because of the monitors), but not
wonderful.
Adam.
>Dunno, I attended a Navy class on these back in '91 or '92, and the bit
>that really shocked me was the CPU on a daughterboard. I'm also almost
>positive it didn't use SIMMs. It could be this design was the DOD version
>of the Z-248, or was yours upgraded with a different MB to get a more
>expandable system.
Well; we'll find out soon enough! (When I get the supplies)
>I just happened to think of another oddity about this computer, it's the
>only IBM clone I can remember using that had a Boot ROM that you could drop
>into. I think CNTRL-ALT-INS drops you into it, but I'm not sure. I seem
>to remember finding it by accident originally.
I'll try that the next time I see one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------|
Tim D. Hotze | "I'm Sure that God intended for me to be |
Techie | rich, it just hasn't happened yet."
|
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------|
> Okay... I'll take the IDE cards; but then I'd need IDE HDDs. I used to
have
> 2; but then I gave one to a friend (and their 286!) and the other ended
up
> going to repair another friends computer. So I'd need the drives too....
As
> close to 15MB as they come....
I don't know if there was such a thing as a 15 MB IDE. There was a 20 MB
(ST 125? It had the same characteristics as the ST-225). I think I have a
coupla 40 MB's.
You'll have to have IDE cards with floppy controller, and serial/parallel,
'cause that's what I have.
> You can just ship 'em to me. I can pay for shipping; if you want.
Please. I'm not independently wealthy, as some of the collectors on this
list seem to be (OH NO! I've just started another flame war! :)
> DO NOT SHIP THEM TO THE SCHOOL.
manney(a)nwohio.com
Cross-post from comp.os.cpm. Reply to the author.
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
"My basement is overflowing with stuff I have been unable to send to the
landfill. Lots of Boards, 8" disks, Terminals, C P/M programs.
What I'm trying to do is find a home for are some Godbout CompuPro
CPUs running C P/M. I tossed several band printers into the dumpster along
with the LearSiegler Terminal, but couldn't bear to do that with
these reliable, inestructible old Classics.. I still have terminals for the
S-100 's a Wyse with separate keyboard and a Heath/Zenith Z-19.
The Godbout machines work marvelously. I am interested in contacting
anyone who could use these reliable old machines.
reply to joanahone(a)aol.com "
=======================
=========================================
Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com
Senior Software Engineer
Press Start Inc.
Sunnyvale,CA
Curator
Museum of Personal Computing Machinery
http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum
=========================================
Has anyone heard of a Sanyo MBC - 675. Do you know anything about it?
=========================================
Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com
Senior Software Engineer
Press Start Inc.
Sunnyvale,CA
Curator
Museum of Personal Computing Machinery
http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum
=========================================
Not So. Atari was completely sold to Tramiel. You might be confusing
them with Activision which was founded by former Atari programmers.
----------
From: Uncle Roger
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: JTS (was: Classic Computer Rescue Squad)
Date: Friday, December 12, 1997 12:29PM
At 05:24 PM 12/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Atari is now making games for all the game platforms. They still
retain
>the rights!
I think that's Atari Games which Warner held on to (? at least it didn't
fall into the hands of Tramiel) and has been putting out arcade games as
well, I think.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
At 05:24 PM 12/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Atari is now making games for all the game platforms. They still retain
>the rights!
I think that's Atari Games which Warner held on to (? at least it didn't
fall into the hands of Tramiel) and has been putting out arcade games as
well, I think.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
They gave JTS a bridge loan of 25 Million and merged with JTS. If the
merger did not work JTS owes the loan. If it does work, then the loan
is forgiven. Atari licensed games to Sega and Nintendo. They also
write games for other platforms including MS DOS/Windows. I believe
their name is now ATARI INTERACTIVE GAMES, but I'll check on it.
----------
From: Hotze
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: JTS (was: Classic Computer Rescue Squad)
Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 10:17PM
Can you give me more info?
-----Original Message-----
From: Faiaz, Michael C. HSD <FAIAZMC(a)hsd.utc.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, December 12, 1997 2:28 AM
Subject: Re: JTS (was: Classic Computer Rescue Squad)
>Atari is now making games for all the game platforms. They still
retain
>the rights!
>
> ----------
>From: Don Maslin
>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
>Subject: Re: JTS (was: Classic Computer Rescue Squad)
>Date: Friday, November 14, 1997 3:06PM
>
>
>On Fri, 14 Nov 1997, Uncle Roger wrote:
>
>> At 01:19 PM 11/14/97 +0000, you wrote:
>> >Well, it won't help you now, but a company called JTS Corporation
has
>the best
>> >HDDs I've seen in a LONG time. I was using a WD Caviar 2.0 GB, and
it
>was
>>
>> For a little classic content, JTS is the company that acquired the
>remnants
>> of Atari Corp. Haven't done anything with it, that I know of, but in
the
>> future...?
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
O-
>>
>> Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being
mad
>> sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen
know."
>> Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
>> San Francisco, California
http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
>
>For a little more 'classic content', the "JT" in JTS is for Jugi Tandon
>of oldtime floppy disk drive fame and later hard disk and PC clones.
>The
>hard disk rights were sold to Western Digital at the time that they
>bailed out of the card making business. Small world, ain't it?
>
> - don
>
> donm(a)cts.com
>*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
-
>*
> Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives
> Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society
> Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology.
> Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412
>*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-
-
>*
> see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj
>
>
;-) Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Bill Whitson said:
>So, everybody knows where the web site is
>now ;). The system was changed to NT recently
>and I'm still figuring out IIS. I'll either
>fix the machine or the FAQ ;).
This is NT we're talking about -- the machine is a lost cause unless ya
revert to *nix / Solaris.
Of course, I wonder if I could write a webserver for OS-9 Level II.... ;-)
Does anyone have the specifications for programming a TCP/IP stack? (yea
I've heard of KA9Q... but that's all in C, so it's too big for a CoCo). I'm
talking from _scratch_...
Have fun,
"Merch"
--
Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional
Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers
zmerch(a)northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within?
Okay... I'll take the IDE cards; but then I'd need IDE HDDs. I used to have
2; but then I gave one to a friend (and their 286!) and the other ended up
going to repair another friends computer. So I'd need the drives too.... As
close to 15MB as they come....
You can just ship 'em to me. I can pay for shipping; if you want. DO
NOT SHIP THEM TO THE SCHOOL. If it would make you feel more comfortable, I
can get the teachers address, but not yet.
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: PG Manney <manney(a)nwohio.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, December 12, 1997 4:08 AM
Subject: Re: Donation For School Wanted
>Haven't they made 3 1/2 to 5 1/4 rails for lo, these many years?
>
>I have a box full of WD 103 controller cards somewhere...just not sure
>where. I _do_ know where my ISA IDE cards are.
>
>...but where are these supposed to be sent?
>
>manney
>
>----------
>> From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
>> To: Manney
>> Subject: Re: Donation For School Wanted
>> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 8:51 PM
>>
>> Yes; but then I'd have to ship the controller cards as well. These only
>> have the 5 1/2" (or whatever) drivebays; the ones that fit the XTs; etc.
>I
>> think that they're half-height.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com>
>> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
>> <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
>> Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 1:25 AM
>> Subject: Re: Donation For School Wanted
>>
>>
>> >On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, PG Manney wrote:
>> >
>> >> Sent where?
>> >>
>> >> Since those are 286's, they could be outfitted with cheapo IDE's such
>as
>> >> ST-157's and 125's as well...IDE paddle cards are common.
>> >>
>> >Actually, that is probably the smarter thing to do. Smaller drives,
>less
>> >shipping weight and less postage. Also newer than MFM/RLL and more
>> >readily available, and about equally inexpensive.
>> >
>> > - don
>> >
>>
I'm in contact with someone who has some good classic machines and
alot of extras that he tring to find a good home for. He is located in
Billings, Montana.
=================
"My basement is overflowing with stuff I have been unable to send to the
landfill. Lots of Boards, 8" disks, Terminals, C P/M programs.
What I'm trying to do is find a home for are some Godbout CompuPro
CPUs running C P/M. I tossed several band printers into the dumpster
along with the LearSiegler Terminal, but couldn't bear to do that with
these reliable, inestructible old Classics.. I still have terminals for the
S-100 's a Wyse with separate keyboard and a Heath/Zenith Z-19.
The Godbout machines work marvelously. I am interested in contacting
anyone who could use these reliable old machines.
reply to joanahone(a)aol.com "
=================
=========================================
Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com
Senior Software Engineer
Press Start Inc.
Sunnyvale,CA
Curator
Museum of Personal Computing Machinery
http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum
=========================================
Can you give me more info?
-----Original Message-----
From: Faiaz, Michael C. HSD <FAIAZMC(a)hsd.utc.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, December 12, 1997 2:28 AM
Subject: Re: JTS (was: Classic Computer Rescue Squad)
>Atari is now making games for all the game platforms. They still retain
>the rights!
>
> ----------
>From: Don Maslin
>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
>Subject: Re: JTS (was: Classic Computer Rescue Squad)
>Date: Friday, November 14, 1997 3:06PM
>
>
>On Fri, 14 Nov 1997, Uncle Roger wrote:
>
>> At 01:19 PM 11/14/97 +0000, you wrote:
>> >Well, it won't help you now, but a company called JTS Corporation has
>the best
>> >HDDs I've seen in a LONG time. I was using a WD Caviar 2.0 GB, and it
>was
>>
>> For a little classic content, JTS is the company that acquired the
>remnants
>> of Atari Corp. Haven't done anything with it, that I know of, but in the
>> future...?
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
>>
>> Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
>> sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know."
>> Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
>> San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
>
>For a little more 'classic content', the "JT" in JTS is for Jugi Tandon
>of oldtime floppy disk drive fame and later hard disk and PC clones.
>The
>hard disk rights were sold to Western Digital at the time that they
>bailed out of the card making business. Small world, ain't it?
>
> - don
>
> donm(a)cts.com
>*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
>*
> Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives
> Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society
> Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology.
> Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412
>*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--
>*
> see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj
>
>
=============================================================================
ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List
Part 2 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy
List Specific FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.6.3
Last Update: 12/10/97
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available
answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp. It is
Maintained by Bill Whitson <bill(a)booster.u.washington.edu>. The infor-
mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but,
in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain-
ed herein. I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible
and often failed ;).
This FAQ is Part 2 of the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy. The information presented
deals with regular day-to-day issues on the list.
If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please
contact me at the address above.
A current copy of this FAQ is available on the web at http://haliotis.bothellwashington.edu/classiccmp or via anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.188 in the
directory /pub/classiccmp/faqs as cclpart2.faq.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Updates: Added: section 1.8
Changed: section 1.3, 1.5, 1.7, 3.1
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. About the List
-----------------
1.1 What is ClassicCmp?
1.2 Why is ClassicCmp?
1.3 What's a Classic Computer?
1.4 Who runs this thing?
1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator?
1.6 Don't you know you're duplicating what others have done?
1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list?
1.8 How long has this list been around?
2. Protocol and Etiquette
-------------------------
2.1 What can I talk about?
2.2 Can I talk about PCs?
2.3 Can I talk about Mini/MainFrames?
2.4 Can I post advertisements?
2.5 Can I ask people to give me their computers?
2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x?
2.7 Where should I look before posting a dumb question?
2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS?!?
2.9 Can I post trophy lists?
2.10 Can I use obscene languagein my posts?
3. Misc List Information
------------------------
3.1 How many subscribers are there?
3.2 How many subscribers use machine x?
3.3 Is this list archived?
4. ClassicCmp Resources on the Net
----------------------------------
4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a Web Site?
4.2 How come the Web Site is so ugly?
4.3 Does ClassicCmp have an FTP Site?
Collecting
----------
5.1 Where can I find Classic Computers?
5.2 How much is machine x worth?
5.3 Will thousands of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them?
5.4 I don't understand anything. Help!
=============================================================================
1.1 What is ClassicCmp?
It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center
on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place
for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions
dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are
often better handled in private e-mail ;)
1.2 Why is ClassicCmp?
Uh, why not? There are lots of people who love these old machines and it
seems like a fun idea to get together and talk about them.
1.3 What is a Classic Computer?
_Any computer_ that has not been manufactured for 10 years is a classic.
This definition is one I made up and it's entirely arbitrary. It seems to
work OK, so I've kept it.
This definition has come under fire recently but remains the guideline.
Remember that it is certainly flexible. The idea is to keep conversation
on track, not to restrict what you can talk about.
1.4 Who runs this thing?
That would be me, Bill Whitson - email bcw(a)u.washington.edu.
1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator?
Sorry. It does often take me several days (sometimes weeks!) to respond
to e-mail. I am often away for days at a time and when I'm not I'm still
probably busy doing real work. I receive more than double the amount of
mail that goes to the list in the form of spam, bounced messages, odd
user requests, general bitching, etc. and I still have to filter out the
messages I actually have to respond to, to remain employed ;). I will get
back to you eventually.
As an update, I've been _really_ hard to reach for the last couple months.
Hopefully, this has now changed. Please keep in mind that this list is
recreation for me, and I sometimes cannot devote any time to it. This
does not indicate a lack of interest in the people or activities
involved.
1.6 Do you know you're just duplicating work other people have done.
I get a "reinventing the wheel" e-mail at least once a week. If you show
me another group of computer collectors that claims a membership as large
as this one I'll show you a group that must be very hard to find. Obviously
there are other groups of collectors and I'm cheering them on - I don't see
a problem with duplicating and reduplicating lore that's quickly disappearing
anyway.
1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list?
The daily load varies widely from about 20 messages to over 100. Average
seems to be about (I haven't checked lately, will update) messages a day.
There are times where the message load peaks for as much as a week.
1.8 How long has this list been around?
The first message went out March 13, 1997.
[][][][][][][][][]
2.1 What can I talk about?
Anything related to classic computers as defined above. There are many
people on this list that really know what they're talking about, so you might
want to check facts before you start shooting off messages. It's also a
good idea to actually read the FAQs and check the archives a little before
posting.
2.2 Can I talk about PCs?
Yes. PCs which haven't been manufactured for 10 years. Even then, be
aware that in many cases you would get a better response posting to PC
newsgroups.
2.3 Can I talk about Minis/MainFrames/WorkStations/Gigantic Talking Boxes
with Flashing Lights & Coundown Timers/Robots from Alien Civilizations?
There has apparently been some misconception that this is a list for
micros/home computers only. You'll note I said "misconception".
2.4 Can I post advertisements?
Sure. As long as they're related to _classic_ computers. And, of course,
use your brain - don't spam. Also, please state up-front whether or not
you are willing to ship the items you sell outside your country as there
are members of this list in a number of different countries.
If your post is commercial, please be sure to indicate that in some way
in the subject line.
2.5 Can I ask people to sell/give me their computers?
Sure. But you're not likely to get a very nice response. Mine, for example,
would be: Get your own f***ing computer! There are several people on
usenet who will vouch for this. When someone posts about one of their
machines without offering to sell it - it's really a pretty good bet that
they're not secretly trolling for offers. See section 5 for info on how to
find yourself a computer.
2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x.
Yes. Be aware that it may be difficult to help you fix things if you don't
have much knowledge of how computers work or of how to use basic
electronics tools (VOM/DMM, soldering iron, EPROM burner, etc). I'm no whiz
with this stuff and the little knowledge I have has come from asking
questions and then buying books to find out what "Simple... Just check
the voltage on the caps in the PS to make sure one of them isn't flaking
out!" exactly means.
2.7 Where can I look before posting a dumb question?
It might be a good idea to take a look at what's available in the Archive
section of the ClassicCmp web site (see below).
2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS!?!
(Or, in general, be unreasonable with reagard to advocacy posts?)
Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, drop
any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars.
2.9 Can I post trophy lists?
Some people like to read other peoples' trophy lists, some do not. There
have been times when most people have been interested in these and times
when many wanted to see them banned. So, they remain - appreciated or
tolerated and somewhat controversial. Can't make everyone happy all the
time ;)
2.10 Can I use obscene language in my posts?
Yes. Although I'm sure many people would prefer you did not. A number of
people have complained about this. I'm not going to outlaw swearing - now
that I've informed you that it bothers people you can make your choice.
[][][][][][][][][][]
3.1 How many subscribers are there?
Around 210 and changing daily.
3.2 How many subscribers use machine x?
Check the web site (see below). The Classic Computer Encyclopedia shows
the number of machines registered by subscribers.
3.3 Is this list archived?
Yes. The archives are available on the FTP site (see below) in the
directory /pub/classiccmp/archive. The file name format indicates
the month/year of the archive. Keep in mind that they are quite large.
[][][][][][][][][][]
4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a web site?
Yep. http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp
4.2 How come the web site is so ugly?
How come a PET is so ugly? Who cares as long as it works?
4.3 Does ClassicCmp have an FTP site?
Yes. Anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.188. Look in /pub/classiccmp. There's
not much there that's not available on the web site. I'm starting to
load old drivers and system disks on occasion. There is an incoming
directory which subscribers may use for ClassicCmp-related file transfers
if needed.
[][][][][][][][][][]
5.1 Where can I find classic computers?
The best places seem to be thrift stores and swap meets. These are
closely followed by pawn shops and mom and pop computer stores.
The holy grails are electronics scrap yards - but they tend to be wary
of individual pick-and-choosers. Oh yeah - garage sales!
5.2 How much is machine x worth?
Precisely as much as you'll pay for it. Oh, you're selling it? Then,
precisely as much as I'll pay for it. Seriously, no one prices these any
more. I have an old Computer Blue Book that lists many classic
computers but the prices are just ridiculous. Some machines (Apple
Lisa's, old old Mini's, and unreleased prototypes) are starting down
the road toward their original selling prices but it's unlikely that
most will ever be worth more than the cost of their components.
5.3 Will 1000's of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them?
Yes. This is the impetus behind every collector's tireless and selfless
effort. Each machine we fail to save has it's gold parts mercilessly
hacked off and sold (just like rhino horns - and look at the rhinos).
The remainder is then sent to China to be made into bicycle spokes (you
probably think I'm joking). Save a computer! Act now! Remind your
SO of the rhino and cuter, fuzzier animals. It might work.
In all seriousness - there are a large (and growing) number of so called
"computer and electronics 'recyclers'" who take usable computers and
recycle them into "reusable scrap". Small amounts of gold, silver, and
platinum are extracted and the remainder of the material is generally
just marketed to less wasteful countries.
5.4 I don't understand anything. Help!
Don't worry - you're not the only one. Reading this list, old magazines,
books and whatever else you can get your hands on is the first step.
Once you reach a critical mass of knowledge thigs get a lot easier.
=============================================================================
Haven't they made 3 1/2 to 5 1/4 rails for lo, these many years?
I have a box full of WD 103 controller cards somewhere...just not sure
where. I _do_ know where my ISA IDE cards are.
...but where are these supposed to be sent?
manney
----------
> From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
> To: Manney
> Subject: Re: Donation For School Wanted
> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 8:51 PM
>
> Yes; but then I'd have to ship the controller cards as well. These only
> have the 5 1/2" (or whatever) drivebays; the ones that fit the XTs; etc.
I
> think that they're half-height.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 1:25 AM
> Subject: Re: Donation For School Wanted
>
>
> >On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, PG Manney wrote:
> >
> >> Sent where?
> >>
> >> Since those are 286's, they could be outfitted with cheapo IDE's such
as
> >> ST-157's and 125's as well...IDE paddle cards are common.
> >>
> >Actually, that is probably the smarter thing to do. Smaller drives,
less
> >shipping weight and less postage. Also newer than MFM/RLL and more
> >readily available, and about equally inexpensive.
> >
> > - don
> >
>
Greetings:
I hope this isn't too far off the goal of this list... I am hoping that
some of my friends from this great list might be able to help me out. I am
desperately looking to buy 1 or 2 IBM compatible 386 machines. The reason
is, I am looking to get a fairly low cost computer system for my brothers
who are currently freshman and sophomore in college. Yes, I know, I tried
the TRS-80, Commodore, and Apple, etc., route with them already, but my
parents are looking to get them some fairly recent computers for a
Christmas gift. I guess what they are looking for is 386/486 machines,
with at least 4-8meg ram, Windows 3.1 (yuk!), 200 meg+ hard drive, and
possible some old dot matrix printers. I of course have printers so that
isn't a priority. But, the parents are willing to pay for them, so... if
any of you have 1 or 2 old 386s setups around, PLEASE get in touch with me
ASAP, with your offering price + shipping, and I know we could work out a
deal. Software also isn't needed, as I have a $%!^ load, but I would like
to get something that is fairly already setup, complete, and ready to go.
Payment could be to in with a couple of days and would like to receive the
units ASAP. Of course, this is all sight-unseen, so I'll trust your
judgements and descriptions.
Thank you very much for your consideration on these wants. I hope you
could wade through my b.s. and figure out what I'm looking for. :-)
Thanks,
CORD
//*=====================================================================++
|| Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE ||
|| (402) 872- 3272 coslor(a)bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 ||
|| Classic computer software and hardware collector ||
|| Autograph collector ||
++=====================================================================*//
Atari is now making games for all the game platforms. They still retain
the rights!
----------
From: Don Maslin
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: JTS (was: Classic Computer Rescue Squad)
Date: Friday, November 14, 1997 3:06PM
On Fri, 14 Nov 1997, Uncle Roger wrote:
> At 01:19 PM 11/14/97 +0000, you wrote:
> >Well, it won't help you now, but a company called JTS Corporation has
the best
> >HDDs I've seen in a LONG time. I was using a WD Caviar 2.0 GB, and it
was
>
> For a little classic content, JTS is the company that acquired the
remnants
> of Atari Corp. Haven't done anything with it, that I know of, but in the
> future...?
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
>
> Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
> sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know."
> Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
> San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
For a little more 'classic content', the "JT" in JTS is for Jugi Tandon
of oldtime floppy disk drive fame and later hard disk and PC clones.
The
hard disk rights were sold to Western Digital at the time that they
bailed out of the card making business. Small world, ain't it?
- don
donm(a)cts.com
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
*
Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives
Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society
Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology.
Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--
*
see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj
Perhaps needless to say, old MFM and even < 100 meg IDE drives are
throw-away items at today's computer shops. There's a mom-and-pop
computer store near here that gave me a box of old drives. They
regularly toss old 86/286/386 and even 486/33 machines. I'm in a
town of 6,000, I can't imagine what's being tossed in the big city.
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
Also; while you've been gone; sometimes discussion wanders "off track"; so I
think that because not everyone knows the best newsgroups; etc. the FAQ
could possibly include a list of good ones; to take current
problems/questions to. That should keep the discussion "on track"; making
it more enjoyable for everyone.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Whitson <bcw(a)u.washington.edu>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: FAQ
>
>Allright, I'll take a crack at revision for next time.
>I agree that recyclers can be great to deal with - I never
>thought this reflected badly on them.
>
>Recycling is what they do and they do it in the most
>efficient way they can. It's sometimes tragic to see all
>that history shoved in a compactor, but that's why we
>collect these things.
>
>-------------------------------------------------
>Bill Whitson bcw(a)u.washington.edu
> (mail may come from alternate addresses)
> Classic Computers List Operator/Owner
>http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp
>
>
>On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, William Donzelli wrote:
>
>> >In all seriousness - there are a large (and growing) number of so called
>> >"computer and electronics 'recyclers'" who take usable computers and
>> >recycle them into "reusable scrap". Small amounts of gold, silver, and
>> >platinum are extracted and the remainder of the material is generally
>> >just marketed to less wasteful countries.
>>
>> I have always had a problem with this part of the FAQ. These people are
>> our friends, as they often get the real gems. They do not always get the
>> big stuff - one time I saw a bunch of Tempest rated PCs, and NeXT
>> equipment, all on the same pile.
>>
>> The precious metal content of a big mini or mainframe can be quite a lot
>> (check out <www.mrsscrap.com> and you will see what I mean), so the way
>> they recycle is all based on ecomomics. Obviously, the gold is stripped
>> first - it is the cream. The copper is probably next on the list,
obtained
>> by grinding the circuit boards and wires into powder. The rest is not
>> worth it, literally. It is far too labor intensive to completely strip a
>> computer down to basic metals - the money made would all go into paying
>> the grunts! The labor in China is very cheap (actually, the strippers are
>> young men that work like dogs for 2-3 years to make thier dowry money),
>> thus the frames, disks, and power supplies get shipped overseas.
>>
>> William Donzelli
>> william(a)ans.net
>>
>>
>
I'm looking for a replacement PX-8. Mine seems to have finally died, but
since it did what we wanted perfectly, and I still have the peripherals
for it, I'd rather just replace it than pay big bucks for lots of bang
that we don't need.
Please let me know if you have a working one that you no longer need but
don't want to consign to the land fill - I could give it a good home.
I'm currently in Haifa, Israel, but If any Americans have one we could
arrange for the unit to be sent to one of three addresses in a) San Diego,
Calif., b) San Rafeal, Calif. or c) Providence, Rhode Island all in the
U.S.A. from where we get it sent to us by family members.
For European sellers we may just try the airmail system and see
how it goes...
warm regards,
Bryn Deamer
14 Shunamit St.
Haifa 34562
Israel
bryn(a)bwc.org
-------------------------------------------------------------------
ATTN: Classic Computer Rescue Crewmembers in the Dover, Delaware area!
Take note of this missive I found on Usenet. If I were ANYwhere
near the east coast, I'd already have visited the place.
This is a terrific opportunity for those of you who want to get
your hands dirty on DEC hardware to do it. And, if anyone goes down
there and finds an M7552 module (RRD50 controller), please snare it
for me! ;-)
Attachment follows.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
OK. The powers that be no longer want to store this stuff, so the
time has come to make it go away.
We have around 5000 square feet of Vax and PDP equipment
that needs to find new homes. It's mostly older Qbus and Unibus
stuff, so don't expect to find state of the art stuff in here.
There is way too much stuff to list, but in a nutshell, there are
vaxen from 11/730 up to 8820, with many microvaxen in ba23's
and ba123's. There are many unibus pdp-11's, and some
pdp-8 stuff.
There is also a DEC-system 2020.
Many peripherals. TONS of books, manuals, and printsets.
Miles of tape, zillions of disk packs, many 8" floppies, etc.
If someone is looking for something in particular, let me
know and I can see if it is there. Your best bet, however,
is to come walk around and see what you can use.
Equipment is free for the taking and is located in Dover,
Delaware. Don't respond if you are only interested in
scrap. We want to get rid of it, but don't want to see
the stuff junked. Hell, we can junk the stuff ourselves
if that is what we wanted to do. We thought there should
be people out there that can use this equipment.
take one piece, or take everything. First come, first
served. You haul. Unfortunately, we do not have time to
package things for shipping, although if the item is small
enough, and you make a good enough case, exceptions
may be possible. :-)
We are interested in moving this stuff quickly, so please
respond if interested. Email address has been purposely
munged to prevent spam. Re-assemble the address
below to respond.
Thanks,
Jim Bender
jbender at
corpamerica dot com
At 10:06 PM 12/9/97 -0800, you wrote:
>On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Sam Ismail wrote:
>Actually, I should say a couple things about LapLink since I have used it
>once. It is easier to use than INTERSVR. The best thing about it is that
I've used LapLink a fair bit (Did you know Traveling Software got their
start doing m100 programs?) and I have to say I love it. I even use it to
move things around on the same computer, or just to find the total size of a
set of subdirectories.
It is not, however, a network solution. (At least not the older version
that I have.) If you want to move files around between machines, buy
laplink. If you want to share disks among various machines (i.e., a
network), get something else. It all depends on what you want to do.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
Hello. After paying a visit to the only local High School; someone made a comment about how their 286's didn't work. From an inspection of the school; it looks like 486's are used in half the labs; 2-4 286's and 1 386 per class room; and the process of Pentiums is being integrated. Some in the most recent wing do have one. But anyway; the 286s; as you might guess... are DYING. These are all PCs; and the problem is in HDDs. Now; I only have one MFM HDD handy; which I'll be installing soon; but there are 2 other malfuctioning PCs that I know of. Remember; this is for a high school; for the Department of Defence dependants; and a few others, but their funding is not... ideal. So if you could please just send a MFM HDD, or; if you have them; two (probably of the 20-40MB vairety; the standard sofware is a DOS menulite; WP51 for DOS; Qbasic; Printshop; etc. so it's not heavy; but for DOS 5.0 (what they have) I'd guess that a 10MB would be pushing it.); and then you'ld have elementary and high school (it's mixed) students smiling.
Thanks in advance;
Tim D. Hotze
=============================================================================
ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List
Part 3 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy
Technical FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.6.2
Last Update: 12/10/97
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available
answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp. It is
Maintained by Bill Whitson <bill(a)booster.u.washington.edu>. The infor-
mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but,
in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain-
ed herein. I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible
and often failed ;).
This FAQ is Part 3 of the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy. The information presented
deals with regularly asked questions which are technical in nature.
If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please
contact me at the address above.
A current copy of this FAQ is available on the web at http://haliotis.bothellwashington.edu/classiccmp or via anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.188 in the
directory /pub/classiccmp/faqs as cclpart3.faq.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Updates: Nothing new, cosmetic changes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. General
------------------
1.1 I just picked up a new machine. What should I do?
1.2 What's the best way to clean these dingy tan boxes?
2. Media
--------
2.1 What's a hard sector disk? What's a soft sector disk?
2.2 What's SS/SD, DS/DD, DS/QD, DS/HD, etc.
2.3 Can these formats be interchanged?
2.4 What disk sizes are there?
2.5 How do I take care of old media?
3. Component Failure Issues
---------------------------
3.1 Do EPROM's go bad?
3.2 How about ROM's, other chips?
3.3 How about capacitors?
3.4 Anything else?
3.5 So how do I backup all this stuff like you suggest?
4. Software
-----------
4.1 Where can I get a system disk for platform X?
4.2 What's the best way to back up my software?
5. Specific Problems/Solutions
------------------------------
5.1 Is it possible to bypass an RF modulator to achieve composite output?
=============================================================================
1.1 I just picked up a new machine. What should I do?
Don't power it up yet! All of the following should probably be done
before that power switch gets flipped.
Open the case - clean and visually inspect components. You're
looking for traces of smoke, water, corrosion, loose screws, blown
caps and resistors, cold (broken) solder joints, bent pins, etc. It
may be a good idea to remove and re-seat all socketed components and
connectors. If anything burned or overheated it will probably pay to
replace it before powering up the unit. You can avoid a number of
problems just by taking a peek inside.
If you have the tools (and the machine is sufficiently rare) pull and
dump backups of all EPROMs, ROMs, and PALs. If you have really cool
tools (like a logic analyzer) it has been suggested that you use them
to record critical information from those oh-so-hard-to-find custom
chips. Specific information on how to do this is beyond the scope of
a FAQ, but you probably know what you need to if you own the appropriate
tools.
Disconnect the power supply from the rest of the computer and start it
up on a "dummy load". A six volt headlight bulb has been recommended as
a convenient load. These should be available from any decent Volkswagen
shop. Running the power supply without a load could result in damage to
it. You may want to check the voltage output before you do this as it
could be no where near the 5V average in micros. Even if you don't want
to connect a load it's still probably a good idea to power it up
separately from the computer for the first time. If you have a really
rare beast it may be worth powering up some of the key capacitors out of
circuit just to get them warmed up.
Now you can power it up. Assuming it works, take a blank disk,
format it, write some data to it, and read it back before using your
precious software with it, as a bad disk drive could really ruin your
day.
1.2 What's the best way to clean these dingy tan boxes?
Cases: It seems best to start gently with such old equipment. Try
soaking in a little water and dish soap and then scrubbing. This takes
care of most jobs. For removing stickers try mineral oil or Goo-Gone
(available at most hardware stores - in the US at least). If those
don't work, acetone can be good but, if overused, can do more harm.
For removing marker, almost any solvent is good (alcohol, naptha, etc)
but will definitely discolor or dissolve plastic if not carefully
applied. Lava soap is also good for removing marker but can smooth off
textured plastic. For removing sun or tobacco discoloring a product
called Purple Stuff available from auto parts stores (again, in the US
at least) seems to do the job almost effortlessly.
Recommended commercial products:
Purple Stuff from Kragen [for discoloration]
Brasso [ink/marker] (can discolor plastic)
Antistatic Foam Cleaner from Electrolube [for discoloration/markings]
Citra-Solv [for discoloration] (can dissolve plastic if undiluted)
Cameo Copper Cleaner [ink/marker]
Naptha [for stickers/goop/spooge] (very flammable)
3M GP Adhesive Remover [for stickers/goop/spooge]
CRC 226 / CRC 556 [for stickers/goop/spooge]
Fulcron [for discoloration]
Blue Shower / BS II [for stickers/goop/spooge]
Connectors: For edge connectors a plain pink eraser seems good
for removing corrosion. Apparently other colors of eraser indicate a
different texture - which may be damaging. Make sure to wipe the
connectors with a clean cloth after erasing on them. There are a large
number chemicals on the market that "magically" remove corrosion from
components but as I don't know how safe they are, I'm not anxious to
promote any of them. For pin style connectors a toothbrush and some
softscrub or other mildly abrasive cleaner do wonders.
Recommended commercial products: Electrolube contact cleaning sprays.
Keyboards: I find a cycle through the dishwasher does a really nice
job on keyboards. Just be sure they're completely dry before you
put any power to them. If there is reason not to use a dishwasher
(some key labels can come off) it is usually possible to remove each
keycap and clean conventionally.
[][][][][][][][][][]
2.1 What's a hard sectored disk? What's a soft sectored disk?
We'll start with soft-sector since they're simpler to explain. On a
soft-sector floppy disk the information that marks where a sector
begins and ends is written to the disk by the computer (part of the
formatting process). This means that various computers can use
the same floppy disk types because the format of the disk is control-
led by the operating system.
Hard sector disks use a system of perforations in the media to mark
the beginnings and ends of sectors. This means that computers
which used hard sectored disks required the exact disk type they
specified rather than a generic soft-sector floppy. A number of
differently sectored disks were available - at least 10, 13, and 16
sector formats. 8 inch and 5.25 inch disks commonly used hard
sectoring. 3.5 inch disks never came hard-sectored and, in fact,
it would not be possible.
2.2 What's SS/SD, DS/DD, DS/QD, DS/HD, etc.
These all refer to the number of useable sides on a disk and it's
density (how "efficiently" the magnetic bits are pushed together).
SS/SD is a Single Sided - Single Density disk, the earliest available
type I believe. The storage afforded by a single density disk was
very small compared to today's standards. Single Sided disks were
popular because they were cheaper than DS and could be easily
modified with a hole punch into double sided disks. SD was followed
by Double Density which, amazingly, doubled the amount of storage
space. Double Density was followed by the extremely short-lived
Quad Density which doubled a DD disk. QD was short lived because
High Density was right on it's heels and nearly doubled disk capacity
again. DS/HD was as sophisticated as 5.25" disks became. 3.5"
disks have progressed as far as DS/EHD double-sided / extra-high
density.
2.3 Can these formats be interchanged?
Well, that may depend on what computer you are using, but in general
the following substitutions may be made:
Desired Format Substitute
---------------------------------------------------
Single Density Double Density
Double Density none reliably
Quad Density DD, HD (sometimes work, not advisable!)
High Density none
Other substitutions may be made, but due to physical differences in
how the disks are made they are generally unreliable. It can almost
be guaranteed that data written to a proper density disk of poor quality
will last longer than data written to a good quality disk of the wrong
density. In the case of quad density no substitution should be
considered reliable. DD and HD disks both can be forced to work. One
may work better than the other given the peculiarities of various drives.
2.4 What disk sizes are there? Disk Types?
Physically?
Standard Disks Unique/Proprietary Disks
---------------------------------------------------------
8" (Floppy) 5" (MiniFloppy)
5.25" (MiniFloppy) 3.25" (MicroFloppy)
3.5" (MicroFloppy) 3" (MicroFloppy)
2.5"
2"
In addition to odd sizes - there is at least one type of disk which
was physically different. "Twiggy" disks for the Apple Lisa 1 were
regular 5.25" disks with the exception that they had two read/write
windows. One was oriented "north" of the center hole, the other "south".
2.5 How do I take care of old media?
Step one is Back It Up! After that, make sure it's kept in a clean, dry,
temperature-controlled environment (I keep mine in a broken freezer).
With disks it seems important to keep them standing on end rather than
lying flat - the same goes for cassette tapes. I like to exercise disks
and tapes at least once every six months although I have no real
evidence that this has any positive effect. I have modified an old C64
floppy drive to simply spin when a disk is inserted and send large
stacks of disks through it on a regular basis just to make sure they're
not starting to stick up internally.
An exciting and somewhat recent development is that availability of
classic computer emulators that can make disk images of old media
on PC's and Macs. This seems to be a very good way to backup
disks since they will eventually go bad no matter how well we take
care of them.
The official line seems to be that floppy disks have a shelf-life of
approximately 10 years. With proper care many are lasting a lot longer.
[][][][][][][][][][]
3.1 Do EPROM's go bad?
Definitely. They apparently are considered to reliably contain data for
(on the outside edge) 15 years. This amount can be considerably
reduced if, for example, the sticker over the window has dried out and
fallen off. Luckily EPROMs were not used too extensively but they're
out there. An EPROM writer/reader is a relatively cheap investment
and an easy fix. Even if an EPROM has "forgotten" it's data it is still
fine for being "re-educated".
3.2 How about ROMs and other chips?
Things wear out. It's likely that even components which have not been
fried by catastrophic failure will simply start to die someday. ROMs can
be dumped to a file and re-written if they die. Other custom chips which
are all too common in micros will be far more difficult to replace. The
best advice is to stockpile these chips when you can - but someday even
unused chips will probably start to turn up bad. In this case the best
defense is to stockpile information in the hope of being able to modify
an existing component to meet your needs.
3.3 How about capacitors?
This seems to be another large concern, but rather than being an
unreplaceable component a capacitor will take your unreplaceable
components with it when it goes. It's a good idea to check out all the
caps in a system if you haven't fired it up in a while. Caps go bad
with time (even tantalum caps, apparently - although they are more
reliable) and should be replaced if they are suspect. It's unlikely that
it will be impossible to find a replacement capacitor as they are much
more standard electronic components.
3.4 Anything else?
Documentation: If there's anything which is entirely unreplaceable its
the docs for uncommon equipment. Once they're gone, they're gone.
I regularly pick up docs I find for equipment I don't have just because
I may someday. Paper will, of course. go bad over time but it will be
obvious and they will be easily duplicated.
Hard Disks: ST-251s, ST-502s, MFM, RLL... old hard disks are going
to go bad. Then they'll be gone. Theoretically, I suppose it's possible
to crack a hard drive and replace a dead bearing, realign, relaminate,
etc... but I've never heard of anyone doing these things in their base-
ment. Perhaps in another 5 or 10 years many of us will be experts at this.
3.5 So, how do I back up all this stuff like you suggest?
This answer will undoubtedly get longer as I learn more. The best ways
seem to be to dump the particular ROM (or whatever) using the approp-
riate equipment to a floppy disk (which most of this equipment allows).
Yes; but then I'd have to ship the controller cards as well. These only
have the 5 1/2" (or whatever) drivebays; the ones that fit the XTs; etc. I
think that they're half-height.
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 1:25 AM
Subject: Re: Donation For School Wanted
>On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, PG Manney wrote:
>
>> Sent where?
>>
>> Since those are 286's, they could be outfitted with cheapo IDE's such as
>> ST-157's and 125's as well...IDE paddle cards are common.
>>
>Actually, that is probably the smarter thing to do. Smaller drives, less
>shipping weight and less postage. Also newer than MFM/RLL and more
>readily available, and about equally inexpensive.
>
> - don
>
=============================================================================
DO NOT DISPOSE OF THIS PART OF THE FAQ. THIS IS THE PART THAT EXPLAINS HOW
YOU CAN SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE. IT WILL TAKE ME MORE TIME TO DO THESE
THINGS FOR YOU THAN IT WILL TAKE FOR YOU TO DO THEM YOURSELF
=============================================================================
ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List
Part 1 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy
Mail/Internet Basics FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.3
Last Update: 12/10/97
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available
answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp. It is
Maintained by Bill Whitson <bill(a)booster.u.washington.edu>. The infor-
mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but,
in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain-
ed herein. I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible
and often failed ;).
This FAQ is Part 1 of the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy. The information presented
deals with the use of mailing lists and internet-specific tools.
If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please
contact me at the address above.
A current copy of this FAQ is available on the web at http://haliotis.bothellwashington.edu/classiccmp or via anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.188 in the
directory /pub/classiccmp/faqs as cclpart1.faq.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Updates: Nothing new, cosmetic changes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Mailing Lists
----------------
1.1 Mailing List Basics
1.2 How to Talk to the Robot
How to set to Digest
How to Subscribe
How to Unsubscribe
2. FTP
------
2.1 FTP Basics
3. World Wide Web
-----------------
3.1 WWW Basics
=============================================================================
1.1 Mailing List Basics
A mailing list is a simple device which takes an e-mail and redistributes it
to a group of people. People can add and remove themselves from the
distribution list by Subscribing and Unsubscribing. When you send a message
to the list, it is first examined by the robot for key words that tell it
to process an automatic funtion (like help, subscribe, unsubscribe, etc).
If the message does not contain a keyword it is sent to the distribution
list.
1.2 How to Talk to the Robot
There are a few List Processor commands that you might want to use. To
send a command to the list processor, write a message to
listproc(a)u.washington.edu
(Do NOT send the message to classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu). In the body of
the message (not the subject line, that is) write one of the following
commands, then send the message.
SET CLASSICCMP MAIL ACK
Tells the robot to send you a copy of messages you
write to the list. This is the default.
SET CLASSICCMP MAIL NOACK
Tells the robot NOT to send you a copy of messages
you write to the list. I don't recommend this.
SET CLASSICCMP MAIL DIGEST
Tells the robot to send you a digest of messages
rather than each as it is posted. With this option
you will get a weekly bundle of messages and keep
a nice, tidy in-box.
SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address
Subscribes you to the list.
UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address
Removes you from the list.
[][][][][][][][][][]
2.1 FTP Basics
FTP is a protocol by which files can be transferred over the internet.
You can use FTP to connect to a remote site and retrieve files. The
commands you use with FTP depend on the software you use. In general
you must make sure that you are in BINARY mode before transferring a
program file or compressed files. The process of downloading a file
is usually termed GET and the process of uploading a file is usually
termed PUT.
Your FTP program will require an address to connect to. For the
ClassicCmp site that address is 140.142.225.188.
You then may be asked to log in (unless your program assumes an
anonymous login). When asked for a name, use anonymous. When asked
for a password enter your internet e-mail address.
[][][][][][][][][][]
3.1 WWW Basics
The only complicated thing with the WWW is knowing what bells
and whistles your web browser supports. You don't really need to
know much other than the address for ClassicCmp. The web site is
all text which means just about any web browser from the oldest
Lynx to the newest Netscape or Microsoft browser should support it.
The ClassicCmp site is http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp.
=============================================================================
Hi all.
I haven't been around much for the past
few months and I know I left some of you
in a lurch in the middle of projects. My
work situation has been largely resolved
and I am about to begin a long vacation, so
here's a good time to ask if you need
anything from me.
If I've missed anything really cool, let
me know ;)
-------------------------------------------------
Bill Whitson bcw(a)u.washington.edu
(mail may come from alternate addresses)
Classic Computers List Operator/Owner
http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp
Sent where?
Since those are 286's, they could be outfitted with cheapo IDE's such as
ST-157's and 125's as well...IDE paddle cards are common.
----------
> From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
> To: Manney
> Subject: Donation For School Wanted
> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 12:01 PM
>
> Hello. After paying a visit to the only local High School; someone made
a comment about how their 286's didn't work. From an inspection of the
school; it looks like 486's are used in half the labs; 2-4 286's and 1 386
per class room; and the process of Pentiums is being integrated. Some in
the most recent wing do have one. But anyway; the 286s; as you might
guess... are DYING. These are all PCs; and the problem is in HDDs. Now; I
only have one MFM HDD handy; which I'll be installing soon; but there are 2
other malfuctioning PCs that I know of. Remember; this is for a high
school; for the Department of Defence dependants; and a few others, but
their funding is not... ideal. So if you could please just send a MFM HDD,
or; if you have them; two (probably of the 20-40MB vairety; the standard
sofware is a DOS menulite; WP51 for DOS; Qbasic; Printshop; etc. so it's
not heavy; but for DOS 5.0 (what they have) I'd guess that a 10MB would be
pushing it.); and then you'ld have elementary and high school (it's m
<Printshop; etc. so it's not heavy; but for DOS 5.0 (what they have) I'd =
<guess that a 10MB would be pushing it.); and then you'ld have elementary =
I've an xt with a 20mb running dos6.22 and a bunch of stuff similar in size
including wordperfect works and theres about 10mb free at the moment.
DOS6.22 eats 5.0mb for EVERYTHING and goodly portions can easily be deleted
to get to under 2mb. Dos 5.0 is smaller so 10mb is a serviceable though
possibly cramped disk. 6.22 however also give you drivespace a disk space
compressor like smartdrive so that the space can be better used.
Allison
----------
> From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
> To: Manney
> Subject: Re: Breach in subject
> Date: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 9:15 PM
>
> At 09:48 PM 12/9/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >Try Global. They have _everything_.
>
> Global what? Please don't make me do a search on "Global"!!!! :)
Global computer Supply. I have the number at work (They've got an 800
number...call 1-800-555-1212 to get it). Once you're on their mailing list,
tho', you get 100 catalogs a year.
They have all kinds of oddball stuff (Rainbow disks, last I checked, for
example.)
At 09:48 PM 12/9/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Try Global. They have _everything_.
Global what? Please don't make me do a search on "Global"!!!! :)
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
<>I'd not heard of Elks, as I no longer stay on the "Bleeding Edge" of Linux
ELKS is Embedded Linux Kernal System. It's a very small memory model of
linux to fit on say an 8086/8 (xt) system.
It's earlier unix cousin for z80 was UZI...
<Or... dare I say it... linux on a TRS-80 Model 100/102/200??? :)
No way, UZI is fairly tight and minimal V7 and want 32k for itself and 32k
for apps and a disk (hard disk) to implement total swapping of the swapable
sections of the app or UZI.
UNIX and varients are a relatively large system OS and doesn't fit well
on most 8bit cpus especially if written in C due to code inefficentcy
>from a lack of a full indexed/indirect addressing modes that C expects.
(common on PDP11 and other minis). The 8086 is a bit better but the
segmentation makes it messy again.
Allison
At 06:13 PM 12/8/97 EST, you wrote:
>I don't have access to network cards (except maybe ARCNet, which I couldn't
>run on my P*****), and I was wondering if there is a way to have a transparent
>null modem-based network. IE, could I connect two computers with a null modem,
>and then change to the other computer's drive by typing x: (or mount
>/dev/hdxxx, or whatever).
I've seen our ISP's linux guru do this before... It can be done, I just
don't know how.
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
Hi there,
Does anyone know what an Epson Equity III+ is? Is it just a PC clone, or
is there something special about this machine?
I saw one in the window of a pawn shop last week. The case design was
pretty cool, but if I had to guess, it looked like it might have been a
Hercules monitor sitting on top of it.
Doug Spence
ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca
I don't have access to network cards (except maybe ARCNet, which I couldn't
run on my P*****), and I was wondering if there is a way to have a transparent
null modem-based network. IE, could I connect two computers with a null modem,
and then change to the other computer's drive by typing x: (or mount
/dev/hdxxx, or whatever).
Tony Duell <ard(a)odin.phy.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
> > HP 79xx and 91yx (for y>1) are usually storage of some sort. (9111 is
> > a graphics tablet.)
>
> But the 9114 was a disk drive, wasn't it? (the HP-IL drive for the
> 71/75/etc). And the 9100 was a calculator (HP's first desktop calculator,
> released in 1968, and rather nice).
Yep. Which just goes to show one point I had in the back of my mind
at the time: HP's model numbering scheme comes maddeningly close to
making sense.
-Frank McConnell
> A parting question: I'm not exactly sure if the HP 7450a 2-pen plotter
falls
> within the 10-year limit but... Does anyone know where I can get new pens
> for this unit?
Try Global. They have _everything_.
P Manney
Wizened elder.
Neil McNeight <mcneight(a)umich.edu> wrote:
> CPT 8510 (Terminal with 8" floppy, no other information)
I think I have one of these in storage, with a daisywheel printer.
Haven't tried doing anything with it yet.
Mine was used as a dedicated word processor (which was CPT's main
business IIRC). There was no documentation with it; the company that
bought them probably had it but had a staff member train the users,
and the user I got mine from had it installed in her home.
> HP
> 7914 (looked like a computer... maybe...)
There is probably a microprocessor inside, but it was sold as a disc
drive, maybe with a cartridge tape drive that uses the block-formatted
HCD tapes (like 9144s). I think the disc drive has about 130MB
capacity. Good for old HP 9000s and maybe 3000s; in fact it would
look very nice next to a 9000 series 540.
HP 79xx and 91yx (for y>1) are usually storage of some sort. (9111 is
a graphics tablet.)
> Sun
> 3/50 (1 regular and 1 with a scooped out case top for a matching
> monitor)
That's called a "dimple-top".
-Frank McConnell
What is it? Is it a Compaq Portable-style contraption? What processor? What
OS? What apps?
In a message dated 97-12-09 01:13:38 EST, you write:
<< I have a Grid Compass 1100. It works, sort of, anyone want it
for the price of shipping? (It's a bit on the heavy side)
_______________
Barry Peterson bmpete(a)swbell.net
Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, >>
