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test-drb

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101090 discussions

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by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:45 PM 1/12/98 -0800, you wrote: >> No handles??? 'Tain't a Portable then! Whups, forgot the 8^) >Hmmm, maybe having handles isn't the best criteria for determining if a >machine is portable. Hmmm... Panasonic Sr. Partner: Handle Apple Mac Portable: Handle HP LS/12: Handle Altima 2: Handle Good Composer: Handel Amstrad PPC640: Handle Bondwell B310+: Handle Osborne 01: Handle (Sorry, couldn't resist.) >It seems that portable machines are those which the manufacturer built >to be easily picked up (in some cases without grunting too loudly) and moved >to another location to be used. This holds for suitable values of "easily". Yep. >Yes, Roger. I know you were kidding. Aw, shucks. I thought I had ya fooled. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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Amstrads in the US

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 07:55 PM 1/12/98 -0600, you wrote: >>1) I took pictures of a bunch of systems: >> Amstrad PPC640 >I didn't know these were available in the US. I just hauled one back >(PPC512) from France last week and I thought that I had a very original >portable (even though it got pretty heavy waiting for customs;) >Were there any other of the Amstrad marketted in the US like the CPC series? Well, Amstrad wasn't really big over here, but they did sell a few machines. Other Amstrad's I've got (second hand) are the PDA600 "PenPad" and the PC-20 (sort of a CoCo-ish/Atari ST-ish one-piece PC). btw, there was another PPC640 that sold on eBay this weekend, but it was complete, with power supplies, software, and a really neat case. I didn't get it, though. 8^( --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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Pricing in shops

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 08:32 PM 1/13/98 -0600, you wrote: >Y'know, I once saw an honest-to-god IBM stand-alone plasma monitor in a >surplus shop. 17" I think (or thereabouts). Pretty neat, but priced a >little high. That's one thing I hate about thrift shops: A monitor is a monitor to them. I've seen monos, cgas, egas, and vgas sitting right next to each other, all with the same price on them. (Needless to say I grabbed the VGAs!) -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 3 months

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by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:56 AM 1/12/98 -0500, Allison(tm) wrote: >I gotta get that sex change. It happens it's MS Allison and I don't have Oh no! It's the new MicroSoft Allison! No more intelligent posts about non-MS computers/software Arrrgghh! 8^) (Sorry, couldn't resist!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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What Transciever for a VAXstation II/RC

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

I've been doing some research and I've learned that it is possible to do a network boot of at least some VAXen using a properly configured Linux server with a NFS mountable version of NetBSD. I'm currently in the process of FTPing the necessary software and hope to get my VAXstation 2000 up tonite using this method. I would also like to be able to boot my VAXstation II/RC this way, but I need a Ethernet Transciever for it. According to my Hardware manual for this system (I love actually having documentation on something), I need a H4000 Transceiver. What I'm wondering is if I can just go dig up a generic 10Base-2 transceiver and have it work? Eventually I want to get at least the II/RC up and running VMS, but this sounds like a good temporary measure to run the hardware though some paces, so to speak while I'm getting a Hard Drive and VMS on media that I can use. Besides I want to get a copy of NetBSD transfered onto TK50's. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 3 months

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ISIS-II - what to do with it?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I got a line on an Intel ISIS-II development system with lots of <accessories. What do I do with it if I get it? Richard, I'd suggest computing and developing. It will run two OSs ISIS and CP/M and it's pretty neat as they are fairly old to say the least. If it has the programmers commonly used and the Paper tape it's a reall winner! Allison

28 years, 3 months

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by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The 4051 BASIC is AWFUL. Example: the syntax of the IF statement is IF <condition THEN line number. Similarly the 4052 and 4054. The really 20 IF A=5 THEN 100 That is standard Dartmouth BASIC! at least it has been since 1969 when I started programming with it. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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ISIS-II - what to do with it?

by rcini＠email.msn.com

I got a line on an Intel ISIS-II development system with lots of accessories. What do I do with it if I get it? Rich Cini/WUGNET Charter ClubWin! Member MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking

28 years, 3 months

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by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

> Personal Computer: IBM called the 5100 a personal computer and also a >portable computer. I think they called it a personal computer since it did Announced 9/9/75 according to Haddock. He also mentions a "Geniac" ca. 1956: "Sold primarily as a toy, this type of machine was arguably the first electronic digital personal computer." And in '71, "The Busicom desktop electronic calculator, based on the new Intel 4004, was introduced. This was the first computing device to employ a microprocessor." 1973 saw the Scelbi 8H, and 1974 saw the Mark 8. Also in '74, Xerox came up with the Alto which could make a bid for the first personal computer. 1975 was the year of the Altair 8800 (ann. january) and the Processor Technology SOL (April). Later MOS Tech came out with the KIM-1. > Portable Computer: IBM also called the 5100 a "portable computer". I >guess they considered it a portable computer because everything was in one >unit. It was certainly NOT portable in the sense that one person could >pick it up and move it around. It's huge and it's heavy and there aren't >even any handles on it. Not to mention the fact that it has an unprotected No handles??? 'Tain't a Portable then! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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ISIS-II - what to do with it?

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> Actually, I've always wanted to get my hands on one of those heathkit > gibbyframmers (with the Moto6800 CPU, six digit 7-segment LED display and > hex keyboard, etc. etc.) as I used one in college and had a barrel o' > monkeys interfacing things to it 'cause it was so easy. I have the short-lived low-end version of that unit in the cardboard box. I saw it in the Heathkit catalog, scraped some money together and bought it. I didn't see it in the next catalog. Mine is serial #8. This version of the unit only has half the memory of the one with the protoboard on the front: 256 bytes instead of 512 bytes. It also doesn't have the protoboard: just a keypad and six-digit hex display. There is a spot for an expansion connector on the inside, but I never did anything with it (I tried, though; I ordered a pair of 1Kx4 SRAMs from Radio Shack. 6 months later, _one_ of my two SRAMs arrived. The guy at Radio Shack didn't understand why I didn't want to buy just the one. The other SRAM never did arrive). I've not fired it up recently, but it worked last time I did. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 3 months

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Recording data to a strand of wire?

by zmerch＠northernway.net

At 04:00 PM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >Long before anyone glued rust to a strip of plastic and called it recording >tape, audio was recorded on spools of wire. > >Whatever you can record audio on, you can record data on. Wire recorders >are actually incredibly durable, and until recently, the airplane 'black >box' cockpit voice & data recorders were wire recorders. There are a ton of >them still in service. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if that's what the >guy had at the flea market. Well, to slightly shift the paradigm from classic computers to classic TV, I saw a voice wire recorder on Hogan's Heroes -- it was made up to look like a sewing basket. At first, I thought -- uh, yea, right! -- but then I thought about it and it's no different than a record album, but in a different form factor. On the show, they spliced the wire to reformat a message on the wire... do you know what type of wire was used on these types of voice/data recorders, and how would you splice them? (oh, and could you re-record over a previously used piece of wire?) Just curious, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch(a)northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within?

28 years, 3 months

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Recording data to a strand of wire?

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> Long before anyone glued rust to a strip of plastic and called it recording > tape, audio was recorded on spools of wire. In one episode of "The Secret Life of Machines", Tim played with magnetic recording. He recorded a little bit of info on a bandsaw, he stuck some rust to scotch tape and recorded on it, and visited a BBC warehouse where they had some truly amazing video recorders (large reels of steel band instead of tape). It's a shame the Discovery channel doesn't show those anymore. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 3 months

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Recording data to a strand of wire?

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Long before anyone glued rust to a strip of plastic and called it recording tape, audio was recorded on spools of wire. Whatever you can record audio on, you can record data on. Wire recorders are actually incredibly durable, and until recently, the airplane 'black box' cockpit voice & data recorders were wire recorders. There are a ton of them still in service. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if that's what the guy had at the flea market. Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam Ismail [SMTP:dastar@wco.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 3:51 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Recording data to a strand of wire? > > > I was talking to this guy I met at a flea market and he said he has a > storage device that writes data to a spool of wire. Can someone elaborate > on this? > > > Sam Alternate e-mail: > dastar(a)siconic.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, > Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!

28 years, 3 months

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by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Peter Prymmer wrote: > incorporate integrated circuitry into what would become S/370 computers. > Interestingly the architecture (or its modern desecndant) was not put on a > single microprocessor until just a few years ago (1995 saw the 3490 CMOS > mainframe on a chip). I would not for a moment call these devices mere Are you sure? I remember when I was at IBM the PC/370 was available - this would have been 1985-86 or possibly summer 1987. I believe this was based on the 68000 circuitry with different microcode. Tony, what date is your little 370-alike? And how many chips? Philip.

28 years, 3 months

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RK05s now don't work.

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Well, let no one tell you that size doesn't matter. <g> Last night I was thinking about how I went about replacing the foam in my RK05 drives. The only thing that I changed was the foam. I disconnect no wires. So, I thought that maybe platter speed may be effected by air volume. The foam on the cartridge air inlet was about 3/32" thicker than the old foam. This difference was enough to reduce the air volume into the disk pack (there is a little bump on the air inlet that pushes a door open on the pack). The extra foam I guess did not allow the door to open enough. This lack of air produces enough drag on the motor spindle to stall the motor. Mystery solved. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 3 months

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The IBM PS/2 model 70 again! -E61

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:20 PM 1/12/98 +0000, you wrote: >Well, this specs is for that desktop model 70-E61 and $40 seems bit I agree then. I'm not too up on the IBM numbering scheme. >Hee hee...this is desktop which is called model 70 and the portable >lunchbox is P70 which uses 386 either 16 or 20mhz (ahem...sleepy I've got a P70 then. (Not sure if it's 16 or 20mhz.) >performance and no cache.) The P75 is also lunchbox in same way >BUT, it's real, honest 486DX 33 machine with scsi interface and >plasma display to boot. That is one I would like to have. Hmmm... Me too. Y'know, I once saw an honest-to-god IBM stand-alone plasma monitor in a surplus shop. 17" I think (or thereabouts). Pretty neat, but priced a little high. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

-----Original Message----- From: jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca <jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 9:30 PM Subject: Re: Firsts Oops it seems like I inserted the signature in the middle of a word or something like that. Try the link in this one >Hi Francois, > >Have a care, are your webpage set up correctly? I got 404. > >Jason D. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Auradon. Visit the SANCTUARY at http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon

28 years, 3 months

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by jstern＠ibm.net

I am looking for an HP9100 A/B: Good Money, even for a non operating machine. Contact: jstern(a)supremum.com

28 years, 3 months

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by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

-----Original Message----- From: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 8:33 PM Subject: Re: Firsts >Paul E Coad wrote: >The TRS-80 Model 100 and it's amigos the Nec 8201 and Olivetti ??? had >no handles, unless you bought an overpriced briefcase add-on. I know >there's no handle on the Everex I take back and forth to work, that's >what my rucksack is for. In fact, I think _most_ modern notebook >portables are without handles of their own. T----------------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Auradon. Visit the SANCTUARY at http://home.att.net/~francois.auradonhat's probably why they are called laptops and not portables.

28 years, 3 months

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FWIW Dept: Old computer stuff for sale on AW

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I found these items for sale on Aucion Web. The same guy ownes all three. "http://iguana.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4212123" Original Osborne 01 computer". Wants a $44 minimum bid. Oh well, interesting pictures there anyway. "http://iguana.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4185354" a KayPro 2 computer. Only $9.99 minimum on this one. "http://iguana.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4188852" a Commodore 128. bidding is now at $15.00 "http://iguana.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4186764" a Commodore disk drive "http://iguana.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4218100" a KayPro (Sanyo) monitor.

28 years, 3 months

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Port Plus and goodies for shipping, Southern CA

by engine＠chac.org

Ex-HP employee John Brown in Escondido, CA, would like the following to go to a collector: HP 45711F Portable Plus (this is the off-white-and-maroon laptop) 128K RAM card 9114B single 3.5 stiffy drive Thinkjet printer 82169B HP-IB interface ?? video monitor interface Full, _really_ full, software and docs. All tested and working as of a year ago. John is moving at the beginning of next week and would like to hear from someone who will pay freight on this by Friday, January 16th, or Saturday, January 17th. Please contact him, not me, at JBKE6QIQ(a)sprynet.com. Understandably, he doesn't want to scrap this. TIA, __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 3 months

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by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

William Donzelli wrote: > is implemented using over a thousand gate arrays. The amazing thing is > that IBM was able to get all of those _hot_ chips working in such a > small space (about a cubic foot, maybe two). > > Yes, I lust for a S/360 or 370, and would even settle for a 3033 or 3081. Me too! But I think a 4381, say or even a 9370, would be easier to work on. Why? The 308X and 3090 (and I think also the 303X, although I know less about them) were _water cooled_. Maybe I am biassed as an electrical engineer, but I think that anything with water in it is bound to make a mess sooner or later... Philip.

28 years, 3 months

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Interesting goodies on punched paper tape!

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Can anyone identify these? I have a serial tape reader, so I plan to read these into my PC and see if E11 or the Supnik emulator will take them. But I don't know what's on these. So, I'll just retype the labels Here goes... PUNCHED PAPER TAPES: CASE #1 DEC-11-NFPMA-A-PR2 8/72 M FPMP-11 DOUBLE PRECISION PACKAGE REPLACES: DEC-11-YQPC-PB DEC-11-NFPMA-A-PR1 8/72 M FPMP-11 SINGLE PRECISION PACKAGE REPLACES: DEC-11-YQPC-PB DEC-11-ULKSA-A-PR1 12/72 M LINK-11S OBJ V002A TAPE 1 OF 2 REPLACES: DEC-11-ZLQA-PR1 DEC-11-ULKSA-A-PR2 12/72 M LINK-11S OBJ V002A TAPE 2 OF 2 REPLACES: DEC-11-ZLQA-PR2 DEC-11-ULKSA-A-PL 12/72 M LINK-11S LDA V002A SA=22714 RA=22714 REPLACES: DEC-11-ZLQA-PL DEC-11-Y1PA-PB 11/10/69 M DUMPTT-V001A SA=LOAD ADDRESS RA=LOAD ADDRESS DEC-11-Y2PA-PB 11/10/69 M DUMPAD-V001A SA=LOAD ADDRESS RA=LOAD ADDRESS DEC-11-Y2PA-PO 11/10/69 M DUMPAD-V001A SA=XX7500 RA=XX7500 "USE SPECIAL LEADER" DEC-11-Y1FA-PO 11/10/69 M DUMPTT-V001A SA=XX7440 RA=XX7440 "USE SPECIAL LEADER" DEC-11-XIOXA-A-PA2 12/72 M IOX V006A TAPE 2 OF 2 REPLACES: DEC-11-Y1PB-PA2 DEC-11-XIOXA-A-PA1 12/72 M IOX V006A TAPE 1 OF 2 REPLACES: DEC-11-YIPB-PA1 DEC-11-XIOXA-A-PB 12/72 M IOX V006A REPLACES: DEC-11-YIPB-PB DEC-11-UODXA-A-PA 12/72 M ODT-11X PAL REPLACES: DEC-11-O2PB-PA CASE #2 DEC-11-UODPA-A-PB ODT-11 LDA V005A SA=13026 RA=13030 RE-ENTER=13032 REPLACES: DEC-11-O1PA-PB DEC-11-UODPA-A-PA 12/72 M ODT-11 PAL V005A REPLACES: DEC-11-O1PA-PA DEC-11-UODXA-A-PB 17/72 M ODT-11X LDA SA=12054 RA=12056 REPLACES: DEC-11-O2PB-PB DEC-11-CGPA-PB2 6/2/70 M PDP-11 CHECKOUT PACKAGE TEST A SA=NONE RA=NONE TAPE 2 OF 2 DEC-11-CGPA-PB1 6/2/70 M PDP-11 CHECKOUT PACKAGE TEST B SA=NONE RA=NONE TAPE 1 OF 2 DEC-11-CGPA-PA1 6/2/70 M PDP-11 CHECKOUT PACKAGE TADDUP. ASC. (2) TAPE 1 OF 2 DEC-11-CGPA-PA2 6/2/70 M PDP-11 CHECKOUT PACKAGE TADDUP. ASC. (2) TAPE 2 OF 2 DEC-11-UEDPA-A-PB 12/72 M ED-11 V005A REPLACES: DEC-11-E1PA-PB (I have to hurry here, the bell is coming. I'll just list the tape name) PAL 11S OBJ v003A (IT'S on 6 tapes) 6,5,3,2,1 ARE HERE PAL 11S LDA V003A PAL-11A LDA V007A CASE #3 MAINDEC COMMUNICATIONS TEST PROGRAM T14 TRAP TEST (1140 ONLY) T17-4K SYSTEM EXERCISER FPMP-11 SOURCE (6 TAPES. i HAVE 6,5,4,3,2, AND 1) And that's them! I have more elsewhere, I'll dig them out too. But for now, what's these? And can I get the emulator to take them? What about reading them into a real PDP (Like the 11/34?) The tapes are all real DEC tapes, they have DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION - PROGRAMMED DATA PROCESSOR written on them. They seem to all be in good condition. -------

28 years, 3 months

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Lisa System Date

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Kip Crosby wrote: <>Huh? You mean 1995 was the last year a Lisa's sysclock could register? <>How, i. e. from when and with what ticks, was the clock set up? < <Yeah, pretty amazing isn't it. Now that's what I call planned obsolecenc <My Lisa 2/5 works great once I figured out in what order to turn everythi <on. One slight problem the date will be wrong, the whole time I own it. The most common cause its that the date(year) is only stored as a single digit and it's added to the date of creation of the system. This is very common! For some systems this is a two digit number but at 2000 it rolls around to 1900. FYI the common PDP-8 OS OS/8 happens to also have this problem every 7 years for using only three bits for the year portion of the date. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Joe wrote: > >> Phillip said: >> > >> >Um. What date was the Casio AL1000? For that matter, what date was the >> >AL2000? OK, the AL1000 had nixie tubes in the display, so was not all >> >solid state, but it comes close, I'm sure. (Other people have commented >> >on the HP 9100 and the earlier Busicoms) >> >> Ahhh, a Casio expert! When was the Casio AS-8D made? I just picked one >> up. I had never seen one before and I thought it looked interesting. Alas, I am not a Casio expert. I merely happen to have an AL1000, an FX-502P and an FX-601P, FWIW. What is the AS-8D? Can you describe it to us? >> I was just reading an old (ca 1977) Byte magazine this morning and it >> had a article about the Tek 4051. I think they said it had just been >> discontinued. E-mail me if you're interested. >> >> Joe > > More likely superceded by the 4052, which used a bit-slice processor > rather than the MC6800 that the 4051 used. There were some other minor > improvements also, as I recall. I cannot remember the exact date the 4051 was discontinued, although I have it somewhere at home, but it was a couple of years after the introduction of the 4052. 1982? 1977 does sound more like the announcement of the 4052 and 4054, I must admit. Yes please, Joe, I am indeed interested in the Byte article. > The 4051 might also qualify for the race of an early personal computer if > its $10,000 cost doesn't put it out. It was programmed in the nicest BASIC > that I have ever run across! Marvellous vector graphics. But SLOOOOOW! > The real queen, though, was the 4053 with its 19" (17"?) screen! I think I'd disagree with you here, Don. The 4051 was announced with a price tag of (I think) $6999 for the base spec. (Might have been $7999). It went down in price very rapidly - the top spec machine was only $5250 or something when it was eventually discontinued. But I meant "personal" not in the sense of "personally owned" but in the sense of "intended to go on/at someone's desk for their personal use" - and I was commenting on the "all in one box" definition someone had proposed earlier. The 4051 BASIC is AWFUL. Example: the syntax of the IF statement is IF condition THEN line number. Similarly the 4052 and 4054. The really nice version came with the 4052A and 4054A in (?) 1982. This was achieved AFAICT by freeing up ROM space from GPIB handling routines - the upgrade was new ROMS plus a new I/O board that had a proper GPIB controller chip on it. I've never heard of the 4053. Are you sure you don't mean the 4054? This did have a 19 inch screen. Yes, I too would love a 4054A. But I have to be content with my 4052, which is also a nice machine. But as you say, the graphics are SLOW. (Faster on the 4054 which had constant rate vector drawing rather than constant time. But that's another story). I shall look up some of the above details when I get home - I did a talk on the 4050 series recently and the notes are still on my Microscribe - and post corrections if I made any glaring errors... Philip.

28 years, 3 months

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by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> <The 4051 BASIC is AWFUL. Example: the syntax of the IF statement is IF > <condition THEN line number. Similarly the 4052 and 4054. The really > > > 20 IF A=5 THEN 100 > > That is standard Dartmouth BASIC! at least it has been since 1969 when I > started programming with it. I see. I can never remember which features were original, which later. Most modern basics allow IF condition THEN line number, but also allow IF condition THEN statement, which is usually more useful, and forbidden on the Tek (which is what I was getting at). The original BASIC, IIRC (correct me if I'm wrong!) had a lot of useful array-handling commands, most of which remain on the IBM System/23 (Datamaster), and a few of which remain on the Tek, but which all disappeared in the home computer BASICs (mostly Microsoft, of course). But I digress. The reason I found 4051/4052 BASIC awful was because that IF statement, coupled with an absence of multistatement lines, takes away half the fun things I used to do on the PET (wherewith I grew up). On the 4052A and 4054A, BASIC really was nice. I think this is the dialect that Transera Corp. ported to PCs and some of their embedded processors. They call it TBasic, and I think this stands for Tektronix Basic. Certainly it has a lot of the graphics commands in common with the 4051/4052. But perhaps I was a bit harsh - Tek BASIC does have very powerful graphics and quite powerful GPIB handling. I still use it, after all :-) Philip.

28 years, 3 months

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TEXAS INSTRIMENTS TI99/4A

by chrish＠knet.kootenay.net

Hello this is my first post to the list hopefully it's ok:-) I have a ti99/4a if anyone wants it, for the cost of shipping. I live in British Columbia Canada. If anyone is interested please let me know Chris Halarewich (chrish(a)knet.kootenay.net)

28 years, 3 months

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What I did this weekend

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

The CPC's were the first Amstrads that I know of, they were commercialized in Europe. They are basically just a Keyboar type computer that plugs into a monitor they also had an integrated tape player for the earlier models and a 3 1/2" drive for the later models (before the PC compatibles). I don't remember the exact number but I think that the CPC6128 was the last of the series. > I don't what a CPC series is but the PC-1386s were sold here. I bought >one new. I have also seen a lot of Amstrad notebook type machines, non-DOS >I believe. > > Joe > >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Francois Auradon. >>Visit the SANCTUARY at http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon >> >> >

28 years, 3 months

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by allisonp＠world.std.com

<What I meant by personal computer was computers mass produced for the hom <market. But the rest is still good. What was the first computer to enter <home (coming from the industry)? That would be: First to the home market Altair 8800 first to be a complete system Sphere-1 first successful market venture Apple-II june-77 first marketed through a common outlet TRS-80 aug-77 Allison

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by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

Here's a questionthat is probably going to generate some passionate debates: What are the firsts? first video game first TV video game first personal computer (I think I know that one) first portable computer first laptop first GUI first OS etc... It would be interesting to compile a list of first with their date of appearance. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Auradon. Visit the SANCTUARY at http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon

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by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:31 AM 1/11/98 -0800, you wrote: >> first personal computer (I think I know that one) >own research you will tend to agree. Some will argue that the Apple ][ I think you mean the Apple 1. >> first portable computer > >Again, same problem. Define "portable". Allison carted, what was it, a >PDP-8 across a bridge some years ago. She got funny looks, but she >"ported" her computer elsewhere. However, I believe this one goes to the >IBM 5100. However, did I hear grumblings of something portable pre-dating >even the 5100? Like something from HP in the early 70s? I think if you consider the 5100 a portable, then so should you consider the PDP-8. The 5100, while more *convenient* to move, perhaps, than, say, an Altair, is hardly all that portable. It's listed as 50lbs (a stretch even for me) and has no handle. You tell me how that's a portable? (It's much like a TRS-80 Model III, only flatter. I think the III is lighter though.) I vote for the STM Baby. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:39 PM 1/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >When did the Sphere-1s start shipping? My boards have 1975 dates on them. >The Sphere-1s were also integrated systems, with a standard setup having >the 6800 CPU board, a video board, 16K RAM, and a serial interface board. Haddock says 1975, no month. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

>>> first personal computer (I think I know that one) >> >>output" then that would be the Sol-20 from 1976. This was first proposed > > I think the credit on this one has to go to the IBM 5100 again. It was >released in 1975. Sol-20 -- introduced April, 1975 --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

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by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:51 AM 1/11/98 -0600, you wrote: >What are the firsts? Here are my guesses... >first portable computer Probably the STM Systems BABY! 1, ca. 08/1976 >first laptop MCM Computers System 700, Model 782 APL, ca. 12/1977 >first GUI Xerox whatevertheycalledit? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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Portland Sale, got a PDP, etc.

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:13 PM 1/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >a 'Zorba CPM' (some sort of Kaypro clone, apparently). All was in good, if > >When I go back tomorrow, I'm going to try to pick up the HP IPC, Kaypro >2000, and DG One I saw. (: AAaaarrrggghhh! I *really* want an HP IPC! And a Kaypro 2000! And a Zorba! I think if I didn't already have a DG One, I'd have to come up there and steal them from y'all.... 8^) Btw: Modular Micros Zorba 7 7" CRT 2 410K floppies 22lbs In prod. by '84 $1595 Modular Micros Zorba 2000 9" CRT 2 820K Floppies (10M HD avail) 25 lbs. in prod. by '84 ~$2000 --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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Free IBM system 36

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:41 PM 1/9/98 -0800, you wrote: >Look at how fast a CP/M system can be up and running Wordstar, compared to >a Win95 system running Word97. About 3 seconds on my Starlet. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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[Fwd: Fwd: Very Important, read, react, forward]

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

>those "encryption standards" last summer.... wiped out any chance of brain >activity in DC, outside of businesses.... Was there any brain activity before that? 8^) Well, one thing that is often forgotten is that the internet (or arpanet or something) was developed so that the US DOD could have a computer network that wouldn't die if one node when down. Which, of course, can be used against the feds, should they try and censor things. There's no reason I couldn't set up a server in a closet which, at a special, pre-arranged time, would call a server in, say, Portland to pick up the mail that was collected by calling a server in vancouver, etc. (Anyone ever heard of Fido?) Unfortunately, we (in the US) would lose a lot of what has made the 'net indispensable for a lot of people. Singapore censors stuff coming in via the mail (dunno about the 'net); we might very well end up the same way, if they really screw things up (cut off from the freedom-loving world.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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Upcoming PBS special on bit rot

by pvhp＠forte.com

Hi, I saw an advert in the latest issue of Scientific American for an upcoming special about archiving digital data to appear on PBS. It is supposed to show on the 13th (tomorrow) and alas I don't have the magazine with me here and I cannot recall what the show title is - or even whether it is part of a regular series. At any rate I thought folks on this list would be interested so go out and check your local listings. Peter Prymmer

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by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Don't know about that one, but the PDP-8/i was available in a (rarely see The PDP-8i was pretty big and heavy. The 8e smaller and lighter but the tiny one was the 8m as it didn't have as many slots nor the heavier power supply needed to power it, it was shorter in depth. The 8m was in the 50 pound range as I remember. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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help with TRS-80 Model II?

by rws＠ais.net

Hi everybody. First off, let me ask- does anyone else have a Model II? I've been working on mine recently and I can't get it to work. When I got it the CRT was loose and rattling around the case and the power and reset switches were broken apart. I got these things sorted out and powered it up to get a screen filled with hash. It seems to roll around the screen and no characters are visible, just hash. I put a test clip on the Z80 and found very little activity. The only pin toggling is the clock. All of the address, data, and most of the control bus lines and either low or (apparently) tri-stated. I checked the BUSRQ* line to see if maybe something was asking for the bus and it was high. The BUSAK* output is low, however. Shorting NMI* to ground has no effect whatsoever. After it's been on for a while, turned off and right back on again, the screen remains blank. I changed out the Z80 for a known good one with no effect. I happened to note, however, that the computer generates lots of TVI, and the pattern changes during reset. If anyone has any suggestions, they would be most welcome. Also, if anyone has any schematics for this thing, that would help too. (Alternatively, if you know that a certain part is the same as the Model I, III, or 4, let me know as I have the schematics and working examples of these.) Richard Schauer rws(a)ais.net

28 years, 3 months

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Upcoming PBS special on bit rot

by jchin＠aesprodata.com.au

If any of you in the US gets to see this program, would you care to publish a short summary of any interesting bits? It's highly unlikely that this will be shown in Australia in the near future. cheers, John > I saw an advert in the latest issue of Scientific American for > an upcoming special about archiving digital data to appear on > PBS. It is supposed to show on the 13th (tomorrow) and alas > I don't have the magazine with me here and I cannot recall what > the show title is - or even whether it is part of a regular series. > At any rate I thought folks on this list would be interested so > go out and check your local listings. > Peter Prymmer

28 years, 3 months

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What I did this weekend

by adam＠merlin.net.au

>The CPC's were the first Amstrads that I know of, they were commercialized >in Europe. >They are basically just a Keyboar type computer that plugs into a monitor >they also had an integrated tape player for the earlier models and a 3 1/2" >drive for the later models (before the PC compatibles). I don't remember the >exact number but I think that the CPC6128 was the last of the series. A bit more info in case anyone is interested. :) The CPC's were developed by Alan Sugar, who controlled Amstrad at the time, in England. They were pretty much unique, because although there had been rumours, the poress conference where they were announced not only had production CPCs but also a range of completed commercial software - very different >from Sir Clive Sinclair's announcements. Anyway, yes - the keyboard is seperate and contains the computer, but the power supply is in the monitor. There was an external power supply available in combination with a TV output box, but from my experience these are quite rare. So if you do get one make sure you get the monitor with it. The monitors are quite good, and are either colour or monochrome. There were three models - the CPC464, CPC664 and CPC6128. The 464 had 64k, a tape drive built in next to the keyboard, and colourful keys. The 664 also had 64k, but it also had the 3" (note - not 3.5") disc drive, and the keys weren't quite so colourful (I think the cursor keys were blue). The 6128 has 128k, the 3" drive, and boring keys - it was the buisiness version. I have a couple of 6128's, but none of the earlier models (yet). They were mostly used as games machines, and were quite good, although there was a very well regarded wordprocessor on them - TasWord, I think it was called. They sold well in Australia and England, as well, or so I gathered, in Germany under a different name. Keep in mind though that if you get a 664 or 6128 the drive probably won't work - the fan belts wore out, and as a result the drive keeps slipping. I'm told that a rubber band (OO, possibly) is a good replacement. Oh, and they're black. :)

28 years, 3 months

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by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

>>> Then there is the "first solid state electronic calc" which I think goes to >>> the Busicom from Japan that employed the first production run of the intel >>> 4000 chip set: the 4001 (2048 bit ROM), 4002 (320 bit RAM), 4003 (10 bit >>> shift register), and the 4004 (4 bit CPU). That chip set was shipped to >>> Busicom in March 1971 according to Michael S. Malone's "The Microprocessor: >>> A Biography" ISBN 0-387-94342-0 Um. What date was the Casio AL1000? For that matter, what date was the AL2000? OK, the AL1000 had nixie tubes in the display, so was not all solid state, but it comes close, I'm sure. (Other people have commented on the HP 9100 and the earlier Busicoms) We've also had some strange definitions of Personal Computer flying around here. One I don't like, but am going to comment on anyway, is the "system, terminal and video circuitry all in one box" definition. I don't think it quite makes it, but personal loyalty compels me to put in a word for the Tektronix 4051. This was announced in November 1975 (I think - have to look this up). I've never seen one but I get the impression the prototype was a Tek graphics terminal with a 6800 development system stuck in the bottom of the case... Anyway, Tek 4051 was intended as single user, one-to-a-desk graphics micro, so I claim it is a "personal computer". And if you're interested in portability, a carrying case was an option you could buy. When did 6800 start shipping anyway? Philip.

28 years, 3 months

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The IBM PS/2 model 70 again! -E61

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 03:25 PM 1/7/98 +0000, you wrote: >Which is preferable: Hock the offer to half of that $40 as agreed >on to "whip" for being liar? I can't see him bec he's away for his >doc appt til Friday. $40 imo is a pretty good price for a PS/2 70 lunchbox (if that's what it is). Even with 2/60. I've got 8/60 in mine, and it works okay. Doublespaced, iirc, with Win3.1 loaded. Memory is available, though not always cheap. I don't know much about the motherboard specifics though. >One Mac IIcx - what good about this one? The IIcx is a 68030 (I think!) but doesn't include the onboard video of the similar but slightly later IIci. It was introduced in 1989 at $4669 and discontinued in 1991 at $4699 (according to "The Mac Bathroom Reader".) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

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by ZGE＠aol.com

Does anyone have information on a 4-bit microcomputer called the KX-33B . Back in 1979 , with the purchase of a Pet computer you could have received the kx-33b for free from Ancrona . Also I am looking for information on a programmable digital computer that NRI schools offered during the 70's . The front panel of the unit appeared to have sixteen rows of on\off switches for machine code entry . I am guessing that the kit utilized possibly a couple of 7489's for ram . Also any info on units that had similar 16x4 or 16x8 machine entry would be appreciated . thanks, Frank

28 years, 3 months

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Is there some special trick required to boot Fuzzball?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I have my 11/23 (The DEQNA isn't in it yet, it has RT-11 v5.04 on it, I kermitted over the distribution, followed the directions in in readme.txt, and did @sysgen. Then I had to go to class. (The 23 is at school) I came back an hour later to the . prompt (No error messages) So, I followed the rest of the directions, put everything on the DU0: (10MB EDSI drive on a QD21) and modifed BOS11 for my config (Commented the QNA driver, added RX02 lines as per the example in some other config), renmaed it to BOS1 and built that. No errors. Put that on the DU0: Now, I do RUN BOS1 and it sits there. Doesn't halt, just sits. It's been sitting 20 minutes, what did I do wrong? Oh, and I fudged, the drive is 120MB. I'm using MM to send mail, so I can't go change it. RT-11 seems to work just fine, btw. I boot from rt11XM normally, but to load fuzzball I did BOOT RT11SJ, then ran it. Not enough memory to do it under XM. Anything else I'm supposed to do? -------

28 years, 3 months

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by allisonp＠world.std.com

<>the latest. I know as the cover of my issue has the last of MITS number <>and a $1300 total and a mailing date in december 1974. <> < What do you mean "the last of MITS numbers and a $1300 total" ? No not quite, it was the first of the line if anything and early on to boot as I had it in my hands by January 15! Last was supposed to be list. < That's my point. The IBM was already being produced at that point and <being delivered shortly thereafter. Altair was still using the prototyp <machine and just starting to sell bags of parts as "kits". Keep in mind the cover of PE was composed and at the printer in in september-october 1974 time frame if not earlier to meet the publication schedule if it was to arrive in my home by mid December 1974!. I should point out that the 8080 by then had been in production about a year at that point. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Paperclip (Was: Re: Free IBM system 36)

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> Speaking of paperclip... I may have found the ROMs for both Paperclip and > Visicalc on the PET computers. Does anyone know what EPROM would fit the > ROM sockets in a PET? I've tried crossing the numbers on the ROMs and > can't learn anything. Does anyone have a schematic of a PET mainboard? 2732 on practically all PETs. Early ones (ROM=6540) had no spare sockets Early ones (ROM=2316) also had no spare sockets, but could take 2716 chips in place of the system ROMs Late ones (Model = 8296) had some sockets that could take 28-pin 2764s, but I think all the spare sockets were 24 pin for 2332 and 2732. HTH Philip.

28 years, 3 months

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by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> actually, what i meant by the power-user comment was a person who is > not afraid to use a black-and-white command prompt if it can help > him/her do something. So, would a System/36 be good for me? If you don't mind learning OCL (the minicomputer version of JCL) and typing all the // commands at the command line of a text only terminal (probably green rather than black and white :-) ) then yes, give it a go. But first find out what size it is. There were desktops (5364), desk side (5362) and huge monsters (5360) plus some others (odd numbers) (after my time). The 5360 had a version of my favourite diskette drive, but I have spouted at length on this list about this in previous posts... Philip.

28 years, 3 months

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by allisonp＠world.std.com

<was in full production and delivery while the Altair was still deliverin <incomplete bags of parts and even those were months behind. In fact, mos <Altair "kits" were delivered in installments spread over almost a year. Y <got parts for one section at a time. I DO have that ad handy. I shoul <scan it and post it. As some one that built ans has one... MITS offered the kit of the month as a way to get Altair into the hands of people that couldn't cought up $1000 at the front. I was doing engineering at the time and making a good buck with out marriage so it was doable and I had mine in about 4 weeks after the order (took UPS 10 days to deliver it then!). I may add it arrived on a tuesday and I used my evenings to set up for assembly and that weekend I started soldering and didn't stop till sunday night when first powerup occured. I had a working machine. Three weeks later I would get docs listing some 10-20 mods to make it more reliable! FYI the SN was in the 200 range. Now the much better IMSAI machine was nearly a year later in arrival but was actually better developed and a far more reliable design from the first. It was a marker machine as it also used S100 bus making it the Polymorphic -88 and the SOL-20 amoung the first to use the same bus and the swtp-6800 started the ss50 bus. Back then an open and standardized bus was a advantage to the person that owned the system and they werent locked to one vendors board and the price competition was fierce. By 1978 memory board were denser (8k static vs 4k dynamic) and half the price of the boards from MITS (88-mcd was ~400 for 4k). Allison

28 years, 3 months

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