Does anyone remember seeing adds in popular electronics back during the 1970's
about the NRI computer .
A few examples were on page 37 of the 3\77 issue , .page 15 , 11\76 page 11 ,
2\76 .
thanks,
zge(a)aol.com
>From: SUPRDAVE <SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com>
>Subject: MFM drives
>has anyone else had a fantastic failure rate with mfm controller cards?
>seems like i have better luck with reviving hard drives....
For "fantastic" substitute "legendary." During my years as a support tech
(roughly 1986 to 1994) it was an article of faith in my firm that a "bad
disk" was a failed controller about two times out of three. This could be
difficult to explain to end-users, who generally knew what a hard disk was,
but rarely what a controller was, or even that they owned one.
It was also entertaining telling an end-user that, once they had a new
controller, they'd have to low-level the
-- kc
I've got some TK-50 drives that I want to use a couple of in my MicroVAX
II, they are all filthy, with big dustbunnies crawling out of them. I've
picked up some of the proper foam swabs for cleaning tape drives, and a
bottle of "Radio Shack Professional Tape Head Cleaner Fluid".
I took the worst one tonite and striped it down, gave it a good cleaning,
blew it out good, got it nice and spick and span. I've got it put back
together now, and it _looks_ great.
My question is, was this a good idea? I started thinking about this when I
went and put the thing that looks like it has two magnets back in from of
the tape drive head. By taking this apart like that have I messed up the
drive alignment or anything? Are there any particular gottcha's that I
need to be aware of. I'm already aware of how the tape leader needs to be
attached and what to do if it gets sucked into a drive (had a tech show me
on a DLT4000 drive a few months ago).
Of course my plan is to install it tomorrow night, and give it a try. It's
called I really want to get a good backup of this machine prior to starting
to play with it (I know nothing about VMS, but have the System Manager, and
User's manuals).
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |
At 22:01 20/01/98 -0500, Ward Griffiths wrote:
>Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:
>>
>> Linux has a termcap for the TRS-80 Mod. 100.
>> I think it trs80 or trs-80
>> -------
>
>Not on my Caldera distribution. Terminfo either. Not hard to edit
>the vt52 entry though, that's what I did when the 100 first came out
>before Xenix directly supported it -- and I emailed the entry I'd
>made to Fort Worth but never compared it to the official release.
Here's the Model 100 entry from my termcap (on a SunOS 4.1.3 machine):
zn|trs100|Radio Shack Model 100:\
:am:bs:le=^H:li#8:co#40:ku=^^:kd=^_:kl=^]:kr=^\:up=\EA:\
:nd=\EC:ho=\EH:ce=\EK:cd=\EJ:cl=\EE:xt:cm=\EY%+ %+ :\
:so=\Ep:se=\Eq:al=\EL:dl=\EM:
Hope that helps.
Regards,
| Scott McLauchlan |"Sometimes the need to mess with their heads|
|Information Services Division| outweighs the millstone of humiliation." |
| University of Canberra |__________Fox_Mulder_"The_X-Files:_Squeeze"_|
| scott(a)isd.canberra.edu.au |http://www.canberra.edu.au/~scott/home.html |
At 09:43 PM 1/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I print 'em out on stone using an HP 7140 plotter with a knife attached and
>use the pony express to get them to my cave.
And I thought dialing into my ISP at 2400 baud with my Atari Portfolio was
roughing it. Or before that, on a TRS-80 Model 100 at 300baud. Had to find
a 40 column termcap for that one.
-John Higginbotham-
-limbo.netpath.net-
Seems to me these kits are still available from some distributor on the net
for around $30. I'll see if I can dig up the exact URL.
Cliff Gregory
cgregory(a)lrbcg.com
-----Original Message-----
From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
To: Cgregory <Cgregory>
Date: Sunday, January 18, 1998 7:46 PM
Subject: Sinclair Kit for Sale
>
>A friend of mine has an original unbuilt Sinclair kit for sale at what
>looks like an interesting price. If you're interested, contact him
>directly at squest(a)cris.com and tell him Anthony Clifton - Wirehead sent
you.
>
>Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
>
>
Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> wrote:
> I can do better than that -- I've got a Zenith that makes the Kaypro look
> pocket sized. *But* both fold up conveniently, and can be carried with one
> hand. The IBM 5100 (and RS mIII, Commodore Pet, HP 85, etc.) is *not*
> convenient to tote around on a regular basis.
OK, you've mentioned the HP 85, so I'll write about it a bit.
Was the 85 portable? That's a good question. HP apparently thought
it could be pressed into service that way -- I remember the CEs
bringing out a largish travel case containing an 85 with (at least) an
HP-IB interface and some tapes that made it a diagnostic tool and
exerciser for CS/80 disc drives. Of course, they also brought some
other similarly sized travel cases full of 7933 kit and a hand truck
to help move the lot from station wagon to computer room.
But I didn't see that case come up to the computer room unless the CEs
thought they were going to use it to deal with the problem at hand.
Make of that what you will. I read it as: it's easily movable, but
it's not convenient enough to be carried everywhere.
I'm thinking that the 85 was designed at HP's Corvallis site. Were
those responsible thinking of themselves as "Portable Computer
Division" back then?
-Frank McConnell
Well over the last few days I've found a Multi-Tech Systems FM30 Data
Coupler with cord for .80; a Heathkit Digital Design Experimenter model
ET-3200-B for .80 no doc's where with it, will play around this weekend
with it; 2 SUN spreakerboxs' for $5 each this place has about 50 of them
for sale; Apple PC 5.25 ext drive for free not tested yet; a EPSON P.I.C.
parallel interface cartridge #8620A no way to test it for now; IBM pc
convertible printer and adapter unit for free got get convertible going to
test unit; a Apple plotter model A9M0302 for $15 need s some clean and
maybe parts before I can test it; Lisa with keyboard for .80 not tested yet
card slot in back were open as if someone too them out at the thrift store;
another Toshiba T1000 that works has carrying case power supply and
manuals; HP IIIsi for $15 needs work; Laserwriter II $15 needs work; Kodak
Diconix 150Plus free and not tested yet; LattisNet Synoptics model 102 $15
and not tested yet; a stripped Mac IIsi for free; and several other units
and parts that do not meet the ten year rule. I hope to have better luck
when all this snow goes away until them Keep Computing !! John
At 11:57 AM 1/19/98 -0800, you wrote:
>YEAH! And not all of us have Windows to read email with -
>I got to ^Q thru all that...
Don't have windows??? How'd that neanderthal get in here?!? :)
(Ow! I'm kidding! Ow! I said I was kidding! OwOwOwOw!!!!)
Seriously, some people just assume that everyone else can support their
standards. I've been partially guilty of it too. I send all my attachments
as MIME, mainly because that's the standard in my main working environment
(win95/NT). I'm a graphic artist and web page designer. I could only do 30%
of my job in a text based environment if it came down to that (sometimes it
does). Then again, everyone I know that I send attachments to have mail
clients than can handle MIME. (I check the message headers for X-Sender
before I do) Still, that doesn't make it right to send attachments to a
list. It could have been worse. It could have come out of a "rich text" or
HTML compatible mail client. (Then all heck would break loose, Dogar, the
Many-Handed One would hand out the proper punishments, and all zeroes would
flow across the lines, as the backbones crumble from their fury! So it was
written, so it shall be!)
(Uhh, was there ever a point in this message where it was on topic? Uh oh.
Better fix that.)
So, uh, speaking of Commodores... Anyone know where I can pick up an Amiga
500 or 1000 real cheap? :)
-John Higginbotham-
-limbo.netpath.net-
> SO what? I read my messages from TOPS-20.
> Beat that.
I print 'em out on stone using an HP 7140 plotter with a knife attached and
use the pony express to get them to my cave.
manney
Who was the joker that posted the message a week or so ago stating
that usmo.com had good prices?
I checked thir website and found a couple of printers for the HP 41
calculator, so I E-mailed and asked their price. They didn't knopw what
they were, I had to send them the URL. Then they wrote back wanting $650
for them!!!!! That's more than double HP's original price and at least 15
times the maximum price now. usmo is a rip off and a waste of time!
Joe
>Return-Path: <kseeker(a)usmo.com>
>From: "c" <kseeker(a)usmo.com>
>To: "Joe" <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
>Subject: Re: more prices
>Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:36:17 -0000
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
>
>Those printers we currenlty are asking $650
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
>To: c <kseeker(a)usmo.com>
>Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 1:31 PM
>Subject: Re: more prices
>
>
>>They're at "http://www.usmo.com/~kseeker/webdoc3.htm". They're listed as
>>Thermal Printers.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>>At 09:36 PM 1/18/98 -0000, you wrote:
>>>Where did you see these, at what link, I do not recall these part numbers.
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
>>>To: kseeker(a)usmo.com <kseeker(a)usmo.com>
>>>Date: Friday, January 16, 1998 1:46 AM
>>>Subject: more prices
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm interested in the HP 82161 and 82162 printers advertised on your
>>>>website. Tell me what you want for them and their condition.
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
In a message dated 98-01-19 23:14:51 EST, you write:
<< >> Oh, they also had a few IBM PS/2 style monitors with a single RCA jack
>>
> What denotes a PS/2 "style" monitor ? I haven't heard this term
>before and have several P/S2 s. The RCA jack would suggest a
>composite monitor.
It's the kind of case; the PS/2 style is rather different from the old 5150
style.
what was the model number? first generation ps/2 machines were 85xx. second
generation ps2 models were 95xx, known as the premium line.
david
Hi Jim, I'll give you $30 shipped. I'm in PA 17347.
Sincerely,
Tom
>I have an Apple ][+ that needs a good home. I've never seen anything
>quite like this; every slot filled! I don't know it it works though;
>no boot floppies. Here's what's inside:
>
>Applied Engineering 16k Pocket Rocket (?)
>Asynchronous Serial Interface
>MountainComputer A/D+D/A
>PTM-1 Programmable timer module (with kludge of unknown function)
>Parallel Interface board
>ThunderClock Plus
>Disk ][ Interface Card (FDC)
>APL Board (with centronics cable attached)
>
>Included are a pair of Disk ][ drives, an Apple Joystick, and some
>misc cables dangling from the back. E-Mail me at:
>
> Jeff.kaneko(a)ifrsys.com
>
> _or_
>
> banzai(a)worldnet.att.net
>
>if interested. Will sell for a very reasonable price, plus shipping
>from Wichita, Kansas.
I wasn't try to ruffle any feathers here, or undercut anyone's price. Your
post simply jogged my memory as to the availability of these kits. FWIW the
URL is:
http://www.users.interport.net/~zebra/ts/
I was just there; it's still a live link. Kind of interesting browsing what
they have to offer. BTW, I'm not affiliated with the sellers in any way,
nor have I ever purchased from them.
Cliff Gregory
cgregory(a)lrbcg.com
-----Original Message-----
From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
To: Cgregory <Cgregory>
Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: Sinclair Kit for Sale
>
>Yeah ok. I just report what I'm told. I'm not a salesman. I'm not an
>apologist. If you want to negotiate price with the guy contact him
>directly at squest(a)cris.com. I'm not making any money off them. I don't
>care if sells any. I don't care if anyone buys any.
>
>Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
>
>> Seems to me these kits are still available from some distributor on the
net
>> for around $30. I'll see if I can dig up the exact URL.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
>> To: Cgregory <Cgregory>
>> Date: Sunday, January 18, 1998 7:46 PM
>> Subject: Sinclair Kit for Sale
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >A friend of mine has an original unbuilt Sinclair kit for sale at what
>> >looks like an interesting price. If you're interested, contact him
>> >directly at squest(a)cris.com and tell him Anthony Clifton - Wirehead sent
>> you.
>> >
>> >Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
>> >
>> >
>>
>
Hello Fellow Classic Computer Collecting Nerds.
If you've checked out the Vintage Computer Festival web page then you
know that there will be an exhibition of over 100 computer systems as
part of the event.
Just having the computers without any accompanying literature would
probably leave a lot of attendees wondering what it was they were looking
at. Therefore, I would like to have a short, one-page write-up for each
machine on display giving summary information about the machine. I
figured there is probably no better resource for general and historical
information on old computers than this discussion group.
As you know, 100 computers is a lot. So I am asking for a favor from
anyone interested. I need write-ups done for the machines which will be
on display! Aside from my undying gratitude, anyone who contributes
write-ups will receive a free Vintage Computer Festival 1.0 t-shirt and a
free pass to the show either this year or for whatever year you will be
able to make it out (this WILL be an annual event).
A list of the systems on display will follow. If you would like to do some
write-ups for a particular system or series of systems, please e-mail me
and I will let you know if a write-up is required for that system.
The write-up should ideally include:
The company which created the computer
The founding year of the company
The year the company went out of business
The founder(s) of the company
What the company's main market was (ie. who was their customer?)
The year the computer was developed/released
How many were manufactured (if known)
What computer (if any) preceded this computer
What computer (if any) followed this computer
What operating system(s) could it run?
What language(s) if any were built-in or available for it?
What kinds of peripherals were available for this computer
What were the attributes of this computer
What processor did it use? How many bits was it?
How much memory did it come with standard? How much total memory
could it be expanded to?
What kind of bus architecture did it use (if any) or how could it be
expanded (if at all)? Did it have a carthridge slot?
What other computers was it compatible with (if any)?
What peripherals were specifically available for it (if any)?
Disk drives or other storage devices?
Printers?
Displays?
Other stuff like speech synthesizers, graphics tablets, etc.?
What (if any) graphics capabilities did it possess?
What was the resolution (of all graphics modes)?
How many colors were available?
Any special features of the graphics? Any special graphics hardware?
What (if any) sound capabilities did it possess?
How many voices did it support?
Any special features of the sound? Any special sound hardware?
What other significant attributes did it feature?
Again, it would be ideal to have all this information, but it is not
mandatory. I realize that some stuff is just a mystery. Hopefully
having Vintage Computer Festival's will clear up these mysteries by
getting the information flowing about old computers.
If you would like to contribute a write-up, please e-mail me with what
you want to contribute and I will let you know if I need one for that
system or not. Thanks!
(list to follow below)
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
MANUFACTURER PRODUCT MODEL
---------------------------- --------------------------- ------------
Altos
Apple Computer Apple /// A3S2
Apple Computer Apple //c A2S4100
Apple Computer Apple IIe A2S2064
Apple Computer Apple IIe A2S2128
Apple Computer Apple ][ A2S0016
Apple Computer Apple ][+ A2S1048
Apple Computer Lisa 2
Apple Computer Macintosh Plus M0001A
Atari Atari 1040ST 1040STF
Atari Atari 1200XL Home Computer 1200XL
Atari Atari 130XE 130XE
Atari Atari 400 Home Computer 400
Atari Atari 520ST 520ST
Atari Atari 600XL Home Computer 600XL
Atari Atari 800 800
Atari Atari 800XL 800XL
Atari Falcon 030
Callan Data Systems Unistar 300
Commodore Amiga A1000
Commodore Amiga A500
Commodore CBM 2001 Series PET 2001-32
Commodore Commodore 64 64
Commodore Commodore 64 Personal Compu 64C
Commodore Commodore 128 128
Commodore Commodore Plus/4 Plus/4
Commodore PET 4016
Commodore PET 4032
Commodore PET 8032
Commodore VIC 20 Computer VIC 20
Compaq Portable
CompuPro 8/16
Computer Power & Light Compal 80 Minicomputer
Corona Data Systems M18P-2
Corvus Concept
Cromemco Z2 Computer System
Data General Data General One 2514A
Epson Geneva PX-8
Epson Portable Computer HX-20
Exidy Inc. Sorcerer Computer
Fortune Systems Corporation 32:16
Forward Technologies Sun 1 Clone
GCE Vectrex
Heath H8
Heath Hero I
Hewlett-Packard Computer HP3000/37
Hewlett-Packard Computer HP85A
Hewlett-Packard Computer HP86B
Hewlett-Packard Portable HP110
Hewlett-Packard Portable Plus
Hewlett-Packard Integral PC HP9000/207
Hewlett-Packard Workstation HP9000/520
Hewlett-Packard Computer HP9915
IBM 3270 Personal Computer 5271
IBM Personal Computer 5150
IMSAI Manufacturing Corporat IMSAI 8080 Microcomputer Sy
Interact Micro Video
Intertec Data Systems SuperBrain II
Kaypro Corporation Kaypro New 2
Macintosh 128
Mattel Electronics Aquarius 5931
Mindset Mindset
Morrow Designs MDT 60
Morrow Designs Pivot Portable
Non-Linear Systems, Inc. Kaypro II
North Star Computers Horizon
OSI C4P MF
Olivetti M10
Osborne Computer Corporation Executive
Osborne Computer Corporation Osborne 1
Osborne Computer Corporation Osborne 3
Osborne Computer Corporation Vixen
PMC Inc. PMC 81
Processor Technology Corp. SOL 20
Quest Electronics Super Elf
Radio Shack TRS-80 Model I
Radio Shack TRS-80 Model III
Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 100
Radio Shack TRS-80 64K Color Computer 2 26-3127B
Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer 2 26-3027
Radio Shack TRS-80 Micro Color Computer MC-10
Radio Shack TRS-80 Micro Computer Syste 26-1006-1
Radio Shack TRS-80 PC-1
SWP Microcomputer Products ATR8000
SWTP 6800
SWTP 6809
Sanyo MBC-550 MBC-550
Sinclair ZX80 ZX80
Sinclair ZX81 Personal Computer ZX81
Sun Microsystems Workstation 2/50
Synertek VIM-1
Tandy TRS-80 Model 2000 26-5103
Tandy Tandy 1000EX 25-1050B
Tandy Tandy 100HX Personal Comput 25-1053A
Televideo TS1603
Texas Instruments 99/4A Computer PHC004A
Texas Instruments Silent 700 745 Portable
Timex Computer Corporation Timex-Sinclair 1000 M 330
Timex Computer Corporation Timex-Sinclair 1500
Toshiba T1000 PA7027U
Vector Graphics Inc. Vector 1
Victor Technologies, Inc. Victor 9000 412
Video Technology Ltd. Laser 50
Visual Computer Inc. Commuter COMMUTER US
Let me ask some of you wiser heads here on the list a question if I may:
Is there a way to archive boot-disk images on my DOS file server? I'm trying
to archive some of the DOS versions that are on my older machines. I'm
thinking of that .exe format that IBM uses to produce bootable reference disks
for the PS/2's.....is there anything comparable to that I can use to make
a storable boot-disk image? I do make disk copies of the operating systems
I want to save, but would also like to back them up on the server. Can
anyone recommend anything that would be simple enough for a newbie like
me to use to do this?
Kirk Scott
scottk5(a)ibm.net
Net-Tamer V 1.09.2 - Test Drive
OK, I got a MicroVAX II with a working RD-54 yesterday! I'm finally up and
running with VMS. It's one of the Big ones on casters, I think it's what's
called a BA-123 enclosure. I'm happy :^) There is something incredibly
cool about a system that has the ability to bill users based on CPU usage!
Along with this I got a LOT of other stuff. Amongst it all were several
RD-53's, which when I connect them up and try to boot the system from them
it gives me a ?54 RETRY. Does this mean that they are bad, or that they
are simply not bootable disks? Yes, I realize that the RD-53's are some of
the worst disks ever made, but I've got a lot around here right now.
I'm hoping to use one of the 53's in my VAXstation II/RC (I also got a full
fleged backplane yesterday to swap out with the resin filled one).
While I'm asking questions, I also got three non-DEC Hard Drives, I gather
they can be used with the MicroVAX's. One is a Imprimis Hard Drive Model
Number 94166-182, I've determined it's a ESDI 182Mb HD, I've got at least
one or two Plessey ESDI controllers that I picked up a couple weeks ago.
How do I go about formating these drives?
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |
At 05:17 AM 1/17/98 +0000, you wrote:
> I've got a Kaypro "portable" that I lift occasionally to keep fit
I can do better than that -- I've got a Zenith that makes the Kaypro look
pocket sized. *But* both fold up conveniently, and can be carried with one
hand. The IBM 5100 (and RS mIII, Commodore Pet, HP 85, etc.) is *not*
convenient to tote around on a regular basis.
I still maintain that any reference to portability IBM might have made
(aside from outright lie-- I mean marketing) simply refers to not needing a
moving company, air conditioning installer, electrician, etc. when moving
the office. I cannot accept that anyone at the time would have expected
someone to lug it around it with them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
I recently purchased a computer from a gentleman in Indiana. During our
correspondence he mentioned that he had a bunch of parts for the Cordata.
To quote him:
>I also have enough Cordata pieces/parts to start my own repair shop:
>Powersupplies, MB's, cards of all sorts, keyboards, little springs, etc.
>etc. Know anyone wanting to suppliment their parts supplies? Somewhere
>out there is someone who would give their eye teeth for this stuff!
>
>If you would like any other old software - I got it!
I'm not interested, but maybe someone out there is. His name is Keith
Hoffman; his email address is kehoffman(a)juno.com Contact him directly if
interested. Like I said, I bought a computer from him, and he was extremely
reasonable and easy to deal with during that transaction.
Cliff Gregory
cgregory(a)lrbcg.com
Hello all on The List; I have been a Lurker here for several
months but this is the first opportunity I have taken to actually
POST something.
For PDP11 folk in the Southern California area, I will have
several items of related gear at the TRW Ham Radio Swapmeet in El
Segundo, on Saturday Jan the 31st, 7:30am to 11:30am. (The meet is
always held the last Saturday of the month)
I have several Plessey pieces, including a MicroII which boots
into ODT - but I have no disk OS for it.. and a Plessey dual 8"
drive module... a Kennedy 5360 Hard Disk with a lucite see-thru
cover.. it spins up and comes into ready, but the drive-to-I/F card
was mechanically smashed. I have an RA60 that looks good but is
untested and an RL02 junk for parts. Also many other bits and pieces
and boards.. I am trying to thin out and concentrate my PDP collection.
I WOULD LIKE: a formatter/interface card(s) to hook a Kennedy 9300
9-trk to an 11/34a... also A/D and D/A cards for the MINC11, and/or
70's vintage stand-alone or DEC-specific D/A converters. All items I
have are for sale/trade/free to good home, and transportation in the
SoCal area is included... longer distances according to value of
bribe offered. :)
AT TRW I am in spaces J21-J23, near the east side of the lot and
across from a blue tent with CDroms all over. White Toyota P/U
Truck full of Old Stuff, you probably can't miss it.
I know this is CA-specific, but one never knows who might be
traveling and would be interested. A URL with pix of my stuff is
available, but waiting for renovation of the Old Computer section.
Please feel free to write to my e-mail address if you would like
more info or just to chat... I don't wish to take up ListSpace with
personal communications. ;}
Thank you for all the great info... many posts have helped me get
my own jun^H^H^H systems working thru others giving good advice.
Cheers,
John
At 08:23 PM 1/18/98 -0600, you wrote:
>> If anyone knows where I can buy a NeXT cube at a decent price, please
>> let me know.
Okay, I know NeXT was the baby of Steve Jobs, but what exactly is it based
on? Is it an entirely new animal? If anyone can point me to some info, I'd
appreciate it.
-John Higginbotham-
-limbo.netpath.net-
Having an IBM mainframe would be great provided you have a direct
connect to the nearest power station! Here's several messages from
knowledgeable folks that posted to alt.folklore.computers awhile back:
[Message 1 of 4 in thread 148 of 176] alt.folklore.computers
Re: IBM Mainframes: Power & Coolant Requirements
From: Alan Greenberg <ALAN(a)VM1.McGill.CA>
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 95 20:33:11 EDT (Page 1 of 2)
In article <BNIDrJa.jrbrady(a)delphi.com>
Jason Brady <jrbrady(a)delphi.com> writes:
>
>Does anyone have any insights as to the power requirements for the
>beasts? How about the liquid coolant (I think one of the many system
>components was the PDU "power/coolant distribution unit"?)
We just replaced a two processor 3090 with a new CMOS-based system.
The new systems was cost-justified partly on the energy savings.
The processor complex ate up about 55 KVA, mostly in 415 Hz power
(which is what the motor-generator created from 60 Hz - just as
with airborne equipment, the higher frequency makes for smaller
DC power supplies). Onto that, you need to add the cost of
removing the heat - perhaps another 25-50% for a total power
consumption of about 60-70 KVA. A complex with more processors
would of course take more power.
I should point out that this was a 9 year old machine....
We replaced it with a new box that draw less than 1,500 watts!
Alan Greenberg
Re: IBM Mainframes: Power & Coolant Requirements
From: Joe Morris <jcmorris(a)mwunix.mitre.org>
Date: 24 Aug 1995 14:42:30 GMT (Page 1 of 2)
Jason Brady <jrbrady(a)delphi.com> writes:
>I never got involved with the facilities support side of the place, but
>remember one day when an emergency shutdown was attributed to a "motor-
>generator failure."
A lot of the big systems used MG sets, both as frequency translators (some
circuits were designed for 400 Hz supply) and as an isolation mechanism
to prevent garbage on the power feed from getting into the computer. The
rotating mass of the MG provided excellent ride-through for short outages
of the commercial power.
At a PPOE in the mid-1970s we had an IBM 370/148 (with MG), an IBM 360/65
(no MG) and a DEC DECsystem KL10 (no MG). We also had a Dranitz power line
monitor tied to the power mains; based on its output we could show how
well the systems handled dropouts in the power.
The DECsystem 10 never survived more than about 3 or 4 cycles outage; the
360/65 died at about 16 cycles, and the 148 could tolerate almost a
full second. (We got lots of opportunities to collect data points ...
thanks, TVA.)
Of course, the peripherals on the 148 would usually die on an outage of
one second, but the CPU itself would survive without taking a power check.
(The shop didn't have the funds and/or will to buy a UPS, even though I
managed to include a room for one in the building when it was designed.)
The problem with the DEC box didn't surprise me at all. There were a
lot of nice features in the design, but the impression I got was that
DEC designed the power circuits on a day after the engineers had spent
the previous night in a bar. At one time I found that the box was
dumping almost 8A of current down the *ground* line, yet the DEC
CE insisted that the box was installed and working correctly. It
also was dumping over 20A down the neutral line on a 3-phase circuit;
not the safety issue of ground current, but still indicative of poor
design.
Joe Morris / MITRE
[Message 3 of 4 in thread 148 of 176] alt.folklore.computers
Re: IBM Mainframes: Power & Coolant Requirements
From: Joe Morris <jcmorris(a)mwunix.mitre.org>
Date: 24 Aug 1995 15:04:21 GMT (Page 1 of 2)
Responding to: <41e5j3$id(a)news.iadfw.net>
mcw(a)gateway.airmail.net (Mike Wommack) writes:
>I used to work as an Electrician at an IBM site a few years back. I know
>the 3380(?) DASD strings took 220v at 100A. The plugs were huge. I also
>recall what looked like 3/4" water lines used to cool the main processor.
>(Which was either a 3090 or ES9000.)
If it was a US site, the 3380 box probably was being fed with 208VAC,
3-phase power at no more than 60A; the box is spec'ed at requiring
no more than 8.2 KVA. In the case of the 3380 the power connector
is an R&S 7328 plug, which is rated at only 60A.
(You could get the box wired for other voltages, so a 220 VAC feed
is possible but if that was the voltage the current draw would have
been even less than at 208.)
The size of the connectors in the power lines is often mandated by NEC
(National Electric Code) and/or local code requirements, which for
underfloor installation often require watertight connections (and thus
increase the size of the connector).
Joe Morris / MITRE
Not in toronto, but I live in Castlegar British Columbia, Canada
Nice Computer website.
Chris :)
>On 18 Jan 98 at 16:50, Unusual systems wrote:
>
>> Did any one ever reply? I believe I'm the chap in the K-W area. We once had
>> Canada's first computer museum, but it has since closed. Have you seen our
>> web site? www.sentex.net/~ccmuseum.
>>
>> Please let me know what I can do to help you.
>>
>Not a peep !! It's amazing that the 5th largest city in N.A. has nary
>a one. Only you and Charlie Fox in Windsor TMK. Thanks for the URL
>I had a reference to it at one time but misplaced it.
> Any other TO area folks on the list ?
>
>ciao larry
>>
>>
>lwalkerN0spaM(a)interlog.com
>
>
Isaac,
Did this list get anywhere? I just found this discussion today, although
I have been collecting and have had a collecting page on the web for two
years. If it has amounted to something, please add my name and email.
Brian Mahoney
in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
bmahoney(a)sprint.ca
Thanks
At 05:04 PM 1/19/98 +0000, you wrote:
>> Oh, they also had a few IBM PS/2 style monitors with a single RCA jack
>>
> What denotes a PS/2 "style" monitor ? I haven't heard this term
>before and have several P/S2 s. The RCA jack would suggest a
>composite monitor.
It's the kind of case; the PS/2 style is rather different from the old 5150
style.
Dunno if it was actually part of the PS/2 line-up or not.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
At 08:31 PM 1/18/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Would any collectors be interested in Kaypros.
>
>I have four -- some complete with original advertisement, software,
>manuals, etc.
Definitely! Where and how much? Which models? Thanks!
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
At 09:30 PM 1/19/98 -0600, Anthony Clifton wrote:
>
>Yeah ok. I just report what I'm told. I'm not a salesman. I'm not an
>apologist. If you want to negotiate price with the guy contact him
>directly at squest(a)cris.com. I'm not making any money off them. I don't
>care if sells any. I don't care if anyone buys any.
>Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
> Cliff Gregory Wrote:
>> Seems to me these kits are still available from some distributor on the net
>> for around $30. I'll see if I can dig up the exact URL.
[snip]
Sir Anthony,
I don't believe that Sir Cliff was undermining your post -- for you posted
no actual prices. All you stated was: "at what looks like an interesting
price."
An interesting price to me is $5.00. An interesting price to another could
be $500.00. Frankly, I wouldn't pay either price right now due to lack of
spare time to actually build the kit (which is what I would do -- I *like*
trying to burn my fingers with a soldering iron (thank goodness I'm
horrible at it - the burning, that is ;-)).
I believe Cliff was just mentioning the URL just in case the Sinclair kit
that you mentioned was already gone -- there may be a source for more so
that others could enjoy them to. [Of course, I'm an optimist...]
Anyway, that's my take on this situation -- now back to the rest of my
(short) 12-hour shift.
See ya, and chin up, eh?
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional
Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers
zmerch(a)northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within?
Spotted a few things that someone might be interested in, and that I wasn't
sure what they were...
First, and oddest, was a pizza box labelled Nissho Electronics. Looked
like a workstation, one 3.5". Almost got it, but for $26... Anyone know
what it might have been?
Commodore 64 for $5, 64c in the box for $15 -- Anyone interested?
I know what a 1541 disk drive is, but what about a Vic-1541? Is it worth $10?
I did pick up a C modem/300 (model 1660) for $.99 and an Osborne 1 keyboard
(only!) for (I know, too much, but it's an Osborne!) $5.
Oh, they also had a few IBM PS/2 style monitors with a single RCA jack
input on the back; they were mounted on little stands, kinda like (I think)
the Apple IIc monitors. Possibly Composite? Possibly from some POS
terminal/cash register? A little steep at $26 though. (Looked new though!)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
At 08:24 19/01/98 -0500, you wrote:
>The Vic-1541's are somewhat more uncommon that the
>C-1541's, and are in a little more demand among Commodore collectors for
>that reason.
..omissis..
>Now then, should you happen across one labled "Vic-1540", you had better
>grab it as they are ultra-rare. I've only heard that they exist, I've never
>actually seen one.
Who saw a C=1570?
How much would worth?
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE ?
? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ?
? Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ?
? where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ?
? e-mail=chemif(a)mbox.queen.it ?
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Sure -- I'm interested.
btw, might I (humbly) suggest that anyone offering something for sale
include his (her) e-mail address in the message? Then the subsequent hail
of offers will stay off the LISTSERV.
manney(a)nwohio.com
At 10:26 PM 1/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>Haddock says (now that I'm home) the Compass was early 1982, $6000-8000.
>
>Forgive me, my ignorance, O Wise One, but what is this Haddock?
I think that's the first time anyone's ever called me wise (except, of
course, myself, who knew it all along.) 8^)
Haddock, Dr. Thomas F., author of "A Collector's Guide to Personal
Computers and Pocket Calculators", ISBN # 0-89689-098-8.
It's an excellent first go at a refernce book on collectible
microcomputers; incomplete, and inconistant, but a good start. (I can't
speak for the calculator part.) Prices are not realistic (some too high,
others too low) and missing a lot of machines, but good for what it's got.
I think I got my copy from amazon (http://www.amazon.com/) but other
bookstores (like powell's (http://www.powells.com/) might have it as well.)
His PhD, btw, is in physics, and he's also the author of a book on Jag
E-type restoration. Go figure.
Have you set the communications protocols correctly? Baud rate, parity,
stop bit(s), word size? That's the usual reason for gibberish.
manney(a)nwohio.com
----------
> From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
> To: Manney
> Subject: PDP-11/73 -- VT220
> Date: Sunday, January 18, 1998 2:45 PM
>
> I picked up a VT220 yesterday, as I was getting tired of using another
> computer for a terminal. The question is how do I connect it? I'm
> assuming the DB25 on the back of the VT220 is the comm line (especially
if
> I read the back correctly), I gather the DB9 is for a printer (from what
I
> found in my web searches last night).
>
> I took a cable and ran it from the Comm port on the /73 to the Comm port
on
> the VT220, and get nothing. I then added a Null-Modem adapter and got
> gibberish. Does this need some kind of special cable to work? I don't
see
> any switch settings on the back of terminal or anything.
>
> Oh, and the VT220 say's it's OK when I power it on.
>
> Zane
>
>
> | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
> | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
> | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
> +----------------------------------+----------------------------+
> | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
> | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
> | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
> | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |
>
>
At 03:58 11/01/98, you wrote:
Someone At 01:44 PM 1/11/98 -0500, wrote:
>>> >First programable calc
>>>
>>> Then there is the "first solid state electronic calc" which I think goes to
>>> the Busicom from Japan that employed the first production run of the intel
>>> 4000 chip set: the 4001 (2048 bit ROM), 4002 (320 bit RAM), 4003 (10 bit
>>> shift register), and the 4004 (4 bit CPU). That chip set was shipped to
>>> Busicom in March 1971 according to Michael S. Malone's "The
>Microprocessor:
>>> A Biography" ISBN 0-387-94342-0
Then William Donzell added:
>>Wang's first (or quite near their first) product was an all electronic
>>calculator, introduced in the late 1960s. They are big, but could be
>>lugged around.
Then Joe:
> HP's first calculator, the 9100a, was introduced in 1967 or 68. It had
>no ICs, used core memories, and used logic gates made of diodes and
>resistors. It did have transistors but they were mainly used as amplifiers
>for the core memory. I guess it still qualifies as "solid state".) It was
>fully proggramable and used RPN. I have a 9100B with a 1969 date code.
>
> I believe the Japanese Busicom calculator is even older and dates from
>about 1966.
Let see if I' m able to go more back:
I translate from the URL page of the Pisa University Scientific Instruments
Preservation Dept. <
http://www.difi.unipi.it/museo/calcolat/miniepc/miniepc.html >
Olivetti Programma 101
Olivetti Programma 101
Programma 101 comes introduced in 1965 during the BEMA elecronic
show,in New York.It represents the first "desktop calculator" ever
constructed in the world.
40.000 exemplary were constructed at the price of 3.200 $
The machine offered the possibility to carry out arithmetical
operations in direct way, or of being programmed for the
calculation of complex functions.
The programs could be stored in magnetic stripes.
It was entirely planned and realized in the Olivetti research
laboratories of
Pregnana, from a group of researchers guided from the Ing. Piergiorgio
Perotto, the design was from the Arch. Mario Bellini.
Attacment:picture of the machine "olip101.jpg"
The Vic-1541 was the disk drive with the colors of the Vic-20. These were
marketed at about the time of the introduction of the C64 and could be used
with either the Vic-20 or the C64. Internally the Vic-1541 and the original
beige Commodore 1541 (the one with the pull down door latch) are essentially
the same. The later versions of the C-1541 (flip down latch) were changed
internally with different drive moters, etc. Functionally they are all the
same.
Is it worth $10.00 ? The Vic-1541's are somewhat more uncommon that the
C-1541's, and are in a little more demand among Commodore collectors for
that reason. I would put their value at between $10 and $20. In other
words, if I were in San Francisco I probably would have picked it up, but
it's not worth shipping across country.
Now then, should you happen across one labled "Vic-1540", you had better
grab it as they are ultra-rare. I've only heard that they exist, I've never
actually seen one. Supposedly they were introduced for a short time before
the Vic-1541 and the drive speed is set for the Vic-20, and therefore will
not work with the later Commodore machines.
Cliff Gregory
cgregory(a)lrbcg.com
-----Original Message-----
From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
To: Cgregory <Cgregory>
Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 5:01 AM
Subject: ID help (Commie, IBM, Nissho?)
>I know what a 1541 disk drive is, but what about a Vic-1541? Is it worth
$10?
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
>
>Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
>roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
>Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
>San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
>
>
This would be easier with some diagrams, but I'll do my best. This is
not strictly on topic but I think I'd better clear up some of the
confusion since I caused it!
The equivalent circuit of a transformer is an "ideal transformer" in
series with an impedance and in parallel with a magnetising impedance:
O---------------+----------UUUUUU----/\/\/\/----)||(-------------O
| )||(
/ Xs Rs )||( O
I \ Rm )||( U
N / )||( T
P | )||( P
U ) )||( U
T ) Xm )||( T
) )||(
| )||(
O---------------+-------------------------------)||(-------------O
The ideal transformer merely changes voltage.
Xs = series reactance (inductive)
Rs = series resistance (copper loss - due to resistance of windings)
Xm = magnetising reactance
Rm = magnetising resistance (iron loss - due to hysteresis of core)
There are two things limiting the power you can shove through a
transformer. First (and quite easy) is the thermal limit - the current
flowing in Rs. In reality, the thermal limit is the current flowing in
_any_ winding, which might burn out that winding.
Next is the flux in the core. The two windings of the ideal transformer
carry equal and opposite ampere-turns, and their flux cancels out. The
flux in the core is determined by the current in Xm, which depends on
voltage and frequency (remember it's an inductor - more current at lower
frequencies)
Usually the transformer has a primary winding with a rated voltage (so
you don't over-flux it. It also has a VA rating which determines the
current (so you don't burn out the windings)
If you are trying to kludge things, there are some special cases to
worry about.
1. 50Hz MAINS.
If your transformer is designed for 60Hz mains and you want to use it at
50Hz, the lower frequency will meaan that Xm is lower. (X=2*PI*f*L).
The magnetising impedance will draw more current, and the flux in the
core will be higher. From a practical point of view, this means that
the rated VOLTAGE must be lower. For example if it is designed for
240V, 60Hz, at 50Hz the rating is 200V. This is called DERATING.
Since the rated voltage is lower, and the rated current is the same
(excessive current will melt copper whatever the voltage), the VA rating
is also less.
Most small commercial transformers are designed for 50Hz anyway, so this
shouldn't be a problem. However (following the discussion of mainframes
and things) most [North American] medium to large power transformers are
not! (Medium > 5kVA I suppose. Large probably > 50 kVA. Hard to say -
in my job I regularly deal (at least on paper) with 500000kVA
transformers)
2. HOME MADE AUTOTRANSFORMERS.
An autotransformer has the low voltage end of one winding connected to
the high voltage end of another. This saves copper, reduces core size,
etc. It is often used for converting between mains voltages and is at
its best around the 2:1 voltage ratio.
Many small transformers are made with two primary windings, each rated
at 120V or thereabouts. The idea is to connect them in series for 240V
operation and in parallel for 120V. A trick I mentioned a few days ago
is to wire them together as an autotransformer (Windings are W1 and W2
in the diagram:
+---------------O
|
)||
W1 )||
)||
O-----------------+||
)||
IN- W2 )||
PUT )||
|
O-----------------+---------------O
Call the VA rating of the transformer V*I, where V is the voltage rating
of the windings in series (usually 240V) and I is the current that flows
in each winding.
On the HV (higher voltage) side, we want V and I. On the LV side we
must therefore provide V/2 and 2I. (Assuming an ideal transformer for
the moment)
Now each winding is rated at V/2, so energising one at this voltage is
not a problem. But each winding is only rated at I, so what do you do
with the 2I you have to supply?
2I must flow in at the junction of the two windings, and I must flow out
at the HV terminal. It is easy to see that I will flow through W1; the
rest of the current entering at the junction must flow through W2.
Simple arithmetic tells you that each winding carries a current of I;
the ampere turns are equal and opposite, so the transformer will work.
However, once you add the imperfections, you do start to get a few
problems. I'd have to do some serious calcs to find out exactly how Zs
(= Rs + i*Xs) and Zm affect it, but you may have to take a VA rating 10%
or so lower than nameplate. Which is not much of a loss.
You also have a regulation problem. Most small transformers have extra
turns on the secondary to compensate for the voltage drop across Zs.
Here you are only using the primary, so you don't get this. Expect a
voltage drop (proportional to load current, of course) of about 10% to
20% (less for larger transformers) at full load.
So, in response to Tony's comment, the transformer won't mind if you use
it almost up to nameplate rating - but you may not get as many volts out
as you expected. Using a transformer at 30% of nameplate rating is as
good a way as any to avoid this!
In response to (I forget your name - sorry!) I hope this has explained
what I was getting at.
Finally,
SCOTT CONNECTION etc.
Someone yesterday(?) tried to perpetuate one of the myths about the
Scott transformer, which is used in converting balanced 2-phase to
3-phase power.
If you have two phases at 90 deg to each other, you have a balanced
2-phase supply. This is very rare! There will usually be 3 wires - two
phases and neutral - and the phase to phase voltage will be about 1.41
times the phase to neutral voltage. The scott transformer (actually two
single phase transformers) converts this to and from 3 phase.
Most US domestic supplies (and a few UK rural supplies to farms and
things) have two phases at 180 deg to each other - phase to phase
voltage is twice phase to neutral voltage.
THERE IS NO TRANSFORMER THAT WILL GIVE YOU THREE PHASE FROM SUCH A
SUPPLY. You need preferably a motor-generator or dynamotor
(motor-generator sharing a common rotor winding). As mentioned
previously, an induction motor with suitable capacitors and things will
do this quite well up to a point. Electronic converters exist and are
getting cheaper all the time...
Finally, you may have two of the phases of a three-phase system. If you
have three wires - two phases and neutral - there is a transformer that
will derive balanced 3-phase from this. If not, you're in the same
position as with a single phase or unbalanced 2-phase (which is actually
single phase centre tapped to earth) supply.
If anyone STILL doesn't understand what's going on, ask privately. Who
knows? If I get very many questions, I may be posting "3 phase ac
theory for computer hackers" before long...
Philip.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Bloedem Volke unverstaendlich treiben wir des Lebens Spiel.
Grade das, was unabwendlich fruchtet unserm Spott als Ziel.
Magst es Kinder-Rache nennen an des Daseins tiefem Ernst;
Wirst das Leben besser kennen, wenn du uns verstehen lernst.
Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk
Someone asked about power requirements for IBM S/34. All I can say is
it's less than 7 kVA (ours was plugged into 30A, 240V single phase
circuit. The other one at IBM Bristol was plugged into a 3-phase 415V
socket but I don't know whether it used all 3 phases)
If there's one going begging, I want it as long as (a) it's within 200mi
of Coalville, England and (b) it can wait a week or three while I get my
truck back on the road.
Philip
Did any one ever reply? I believe I'm the chap in the K-W area. We once had
Canada's first computer museum, but it has since closed. Have you seen our
web site? www.sentex.net/~ccmuseum.
Please let me know what I can do to help you.
Yours in good faith.
Oh,
About lunchbox,
I nearly forgot, To anyone who knows the Canadian-USA border well,
could anyone tell me what is proper proccedures to let border guys
know that I'm ridding of this lunchbox? It has the small yellow
serial label that border person stuck on my lunchbox when I was
travelling to visit my friend. The empty lunchbox was originally
privately brought used by mail from a person in USA during last
summer.
Thanks!
Jason D.
At 07:39 PM 1/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
><You could use the "skip big messages" option that most mail program have
><Anyway I will refrain from sending attachements to this list in future.
>
>not all mailers have that!
My email prog never saw the message; many times the ISP timed
out and closed the connection.
_______________
Barry Peterson bmpete(a)swbell.net
Husband to Diane, Father to Doug,
Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan.
Bubble memories were once available as a kind of disk emulator
for SwTPC 6809 machines with the FLEX OS. The package was called
"DISKBUB", and was based on a bubble memory by Texas Instruments,
IIRC. Didn't sell terribly well; cost something like $1000 for
128K bytes.
God, I wish I'd saved those old program listings.
Bill.
At 10:26 17/01/98 -0800, Larry Anderson wrote:
>>Okay, so I have a C-64c, 1541 floppy, and monitor. Now how exactly would I
>>go about downloading programs from the internet on my PC machine and
>>porting them over to the Commodore? Will I need a special serial cable? I
>>have the 64 boxed up at the moment so can't really tell what I need.
[Snip!]
> Finaly (if nesessary) convert the file, it it is .D64 there are a few
>d64 to 1541 utilities out there for both the 64 and 128. T64 is a
>different story, it will need to go to tape, and even though I know it
>can be done I am unsure whether or not a utility exists yet for the 64.
Actually, you can transfer .T64 files to disk without any problem. .D64 is
a disk image format, .T64 is simply a single file. Just transfer it as a
PRG file and it should work fine.
Regards,
| Scott McLauchlan |E-Mail: scott(a)isd.canberra.edu.au|
| Admin/ISD IT User Support Team |Phone: +61 2 6201 5544 (Ext.5544)|
| Information Services Division |Post: University of Canberra, |
|University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA | ACT, 2601. |
classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
Subj: Re: Mini & Mainframe Power Requirements
William Donzelli wrote:
>OK, running a big mini or a mainframe class machine is not for everyone.
>However, running a processor plus a single disk and perhaps a tape may not
>be all that bad. Water cooled machines, however, would be too much to
>handle.
>
>For those that only want to plug things into the wall, turn back now!
>
>A typical mainframe machine from the past is going to want 3-phase power.
<more scary power specs snipped>
Well not necessarily. Of late IBM has been putting effort into making
S/390 (note: less than 7 years old and not quite a classic) available
to small shops: via the P/390 (a 7490 mainframe on a chip hosted by a pentium
running OS/2) and the R/390 (also a 7490 with an AIX host - RS/6k or PPC).
I must apologize: in a previous message I had referred to the mainframe on
a chip as a "3490" which is a tape drive not a CPU model number.
To the extent that S/390 derives its heritage from S/370 and S/360 such a
box may serve the needs of the mainframe hacker with a small power
capacity/budget. IBM's amazing efforts at preservation of backward
compatability are a big plus here: to a first approximation S/390 simply
adds features to S/370 (the parallel sysplex clustering ability allegedly
being quite highly advanced nowadays e.g.). Unfortunately the purchase
price won't help the budget minded hacker: a new P/390 runs $50k to $100k and
the R/390 a bit more.
I've used a P/390 and must say that it is quite a machine: all DASD
communication channels are actually handled via a software emulation that
runs under the host OS/2 machine, but other than that it seems much like a
mainframe. You can run with RAID 0,1,3,5 using PC type drives.
The 7490 can run OS/390 (the new name for MVS), VM/ESA, as well as VSE/ESA
(the new name for DOS since about 1987).
Interestingly enough IBM recently upgraded their P/390 production line
to move from 90 MhZ Pentiums to 200 MhZ Pentiums and touted that customers
could expect throughput rates to increase a whopping 10% (this gives you an
inkling of how much the host OS adds in overhead). According to an IBM
technical contact there are shops that are actually running P/390s in a
production environment: doing payroll, accounting and whatnot. This
despite the fact that the intended market was primarily for software shops
porting code to S/390.
Perhaps the most unusual thing about S/390 are the OpenEdition environments
that run under the various OSes. They give you unix on the mainframe and the
OpenEdition environment under OS/390 is now known as "UNIX System Services for
OS/390". The irony being that MVS is actually 3-4 years younger than UNIX:
UNIX started in 1969, MVS was announced in 1973 and shipped in 1974.
At any rate keep an eye out for P/390 on a PC Server 500 (maybe the P90s will
wind up on the used market?) and the equivalent R/390 machine - they take only
wall plug 110 AC and will let you hack JCL, assembler, and CLISTs to your
heart's content - destined to be classics.
Peter Prymmer
Would any collectors be interested in Kaypros.
I have four -- some complete with original advertisement, software,
manuals, etc.
Time to free them from the storage bin.
In a message dated 98-01-18 17:11:29 EST, you write:
<< Just acquired a Compaq luggable (don't know the model, but it's an XT)
that's pretty hefty. I forgot how much I love mono screens, though.
The case reminds me of an airline carry-on cat container...stands on end,
with the handle on top.
>>
ive got two IBM portable pc's (5155 i think) which are the same thing. also
has built in handle and a 5 inch screen. both that i have are upgraded to
640k, and one has one floppy removed and a hard drive in its place.
david
Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote:
> (2) 21MX E computers (one having 1MW of memory, the other with 256MW)
For Joe: MW == megawords. These being 2100-family machines a word is
16 bits.
> (1) HP1000A
Um, no, I think that is an HP1000 F-series. (I have trouble keeping
1000 M/E/F-series straight though, really should copy those pages out
of the test equipment catalog and paste them to my monitor or
something.)
> (1) HP1000 model 600A (hard drive, 3.5" floppy)
Cute little thing, in a deskside tower chassis.
And a 2621P terminal that I am guessing was last used as its console:
it's got the fiber-optic console interface attached.
> (1) Tape Reader Reroller (the 8th of only a few ever made)
Well, that's what the seller told us. Definitely 1960s stuff though.
The idea was that the reader would re-roll your tape into its canister
as it read. I gathered that that part didn't work too well. There were
also some drafting erasers, um I mean hand-held re-rollers in a box
nearby.
> (2) 2647F terminals (these are actually computers running Basic with
> built-in tape and external 5.25" disk drives but are used as
> terminals to the 21MX)
Take a close look at the label on the front. They say "HP3000".
That's because these 2647Fs were originally meant to be used as
consoles for HP3000 series 64/68/70 systems. (Though, in April 1984
when the shop I was at got a brand new 3000/64, the 2647F console with
it had a 2647F badge on the front.)
It's been a while since I had one of these to play with, but I'm
thinking that the BASIC was loaded from diskette. There is a sort
of command/script interpreter in the terminal though.
> (2) Mag-tape drives (Frank will provide the specs and model #s)
I think one of them has a 7970B tag and the other doesn't have a model
tag but behaves like a 7970E, meaning nine-track 1600 BPI read/write.
It's been modified, though, and I gather it started life as a
read-only drive that could read 7-track tapes, and that we may have
the parts to convert it back. Some of the parts are definitely there,
but I can't judge their condition or completeness 'til we do a
decent inventory of the lot and I try to wrap my head around the
service manual for that drive.
> (1) Big-assed line printer and stand
HP 2608A. Needs work, doesn't feed paper right.
As line printers go it's kinda dinky. E.g. you can take it off its
stand and then two people can carry it without too much trouble, so
long as there aren't stairs or doorways or RVs in the way. So if you
have Sam's attention and are near a proper line printer please
show it to him so he can get properly calibrated.
> (2) HP racks
No, two 19" HP racks on a pedestal. Apparently from an engine test
system of some sort. HP used to embed 2100-family CPUs in all sorts
of specialized test equipment and that's what these look like they
were, once upon a time.
> The guy was more interested in getting rid of it and having it go to a
> good home than getting money for it. We paid him $200. Of course Frank
> now has an invaluable contact for discussing his HP passion (the guy we
> bought the stuff from is a 26 year HP veteran).
Yeah, y'all really should have hung around a bit longer before zipping off
to unload.
> I think when it was all done Frank basically had an accident in his pants
> as he could not contain his excitement over his good fortune.
No, I was just dazed'n'confused because I really hadn't expected we'd
be moving it that day, just looking and dealing to come get it in a
couple weeks' time. So today I am playing catch-up, then maybe going
off to rearrange /dev/closet02 in the hope of making a hole that some
of this stuff can fit in.
Catch-up? Um, yeah, I have a bunch of IBM manuals and stuff to sort
through and inventory. They go with an IBM RT PC (6150). Got that too.
Up to my butt in alligators, I remain,
-Frank McConnell
Hi, Barry,
At 04:03 18/01/98 GMT, you wrote:
>>Attacment:picture of the machine "olip101.jpg"
>
>PLEASE! No more attachments, especially of that size.
>It took me dozens of tries to finally get it. (It blocked all my
>other emails.)
Hmm, sorry but I thought that 77 k attachment file would not make any
problem (it took 45 sec. to send it).
You could use the "skip big messages" option that most mail program have.
Anyway I will refrain from sending attachements to this list in future.
About my messag on Re: Firsts/programmable calculators, I received back from
classicmp only one part of the whole message wrote (very strange).
Here follows a copy without attachement:
------
Someone At 01:44 PM 1/11/98 -0500, wrote:
>>> >First programable calc
>>>
>>> Then there is the "first solid state electronic calc" which I think goes to
>>> the Busicom from Japan that employed the first production run of the intel
>>> 4000 chip set: the 4001 (2048 bit ROM), 4002 (320 bit RAM), 4003 (10 bit
>>> shift register), and the 4004 (4 bit CPU). That chip set was shipped to
>>> Busicom in March 1971 according to Michael S. Malone's "The
>Microprocessor:
>>> A Biography" ISBN 0-387-94342-0
Then William Donzell added:
>>Wang's first (or quite near their first) product was an all electronic
>>calculator, introduced in the late 1960s. They are big, but could be
>>lugged around.
Then Joe:
> HP's first calculator, the 9100a, was introduced in 1967 or 68. It had
>no ICs, used core memories, and used logic gates made of diodes and
>resistors. It did have transistors but they were mainly used as amplifiers
>for the core memory. I guess it still qualifies as "solid state".) It was
>fully proggramable and used RPN. I have a 9100B with a 1969 date code.
>
> I believe the Japanese Busicom calculator is even older and dates from
>about 1966.
Let see if I' m able to go more back:
I translate from the URL page of the Pisa University Scientific Instruments
Preservation Dept. <
http://www.difi.unipi.it/museo/calcolat/miniepc/miniepc.html >
Olivetti Programma 101
Olivetti Programma 101
Programma 101 comes introduced in 1965 during the BEMA elecronic
show,in New York.It represents the first "desktop calculator" ever
constructed in the world.
40.000 exemplary were constructed at the price of 3.200 $
The machine offered the possibility to carry out arithmetical
operations in direct way, or of being programmed for the
calculation of complex functions.
The programs could be stored in magnetic stripes.
It was entirely planned and realized in the Olivetti research
laboratories of
Pregnana, from a group of researchers guided from the Ing. Piergiorgio
Perotto, the design was from the Arch. Mario Bellini.
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I know this is off-topic, but I think someone might be able to help me with
this here. If you want, reply privately to higginbo@netpath. net.
I haven't got a clue on this one:
I was putting together this system the other day at work, got everything
setup, turned it on, and it was fine. But when I hit reset or power down, I
can't get it to come back up at all. The hard drives would init, the cd-rom
drives would power up, but nothing would come up on screen, no memory
check, etc. I could then reset a few times and it would eventually come up.
The system is getting power, and the motherboard and case/PS are brand new.
So I'm throwing this out to you guys:
Is it the power supply not providing enough juice for all the drives? It's
a 250w PS, and everything works once it's on.
Is it the motherboard? (TX Pro chipset, el cheapo, but have had no probs
with them in the past.)
Not enough power getting to the power supply?
I'm at a loss on this one.
-John Higginbotham-
-limbo.netpath.net-
<A while ago, I mentioned that I had a DECMate III, the one without
<the hard drive. It has two DECWrite manuals, a disk set for the same,
<Could anyone tell me what OS I can use on this, where I can get it,
<and how to install it. The DEC is not at my house, and any mistake will
DECMATE-III is a sorta PDP-8 using the harris 6120 chip that is a
microprocessor clone of the basic PDP-8 with some added features.
With some notable exceptions it will run most PDP-8 software and there
are some spcific DECMATE modified veriosn out there like OS/8 and
operating system. FYI DECMATEs nominally run WPS a word processing,
list management, spread sheet and communications terminal emulation
package unique to them.
If you can surf the web most of the software for PDP-8 and DECmates are
out there along with tech info. To get the OS on the decmate there are
two paths... get someone to make a copy of the OS/8 disk set(its
permitted) or down load the files from those sites and use PUTR ot
teledisk(disk cloner) and a 1.2m 5.25" drive on a PC.
Allison