- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by pvhp＠forte.com

classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subj: Re: Re[4]: Development, round II Barry Peterson wrote: >On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:41:15 -0600, you said: > >> >>IIRC they started officially calling it Warp with V2.0, the first = >release following the Microsoft/IBM breakup. > >I have a copy of 2.0; it is not called Warp. That started with version >3. The story that I read somewhere was that "Warp" was used internally at IBM. With version 3.0 they were explicit about it and put that name on the box. Peter Prymmer ,

28 years, 2 months

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eBay and online auctions

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 08:06 PM 1/30/98 -0800, you wrote: >Maybe not in this day and age. Who knows what wacky contraption some whiz >will invent in the future which will allow just such a thing? (Perhaps it >will be somebody among us here for just the purposes of restoring classic >computers in the year 2050). I can see someone developing good enough VR that you'd be able to scan in about 20 different pics of a dead pc inside and out, throw some emulator code in the fray, and you'd be able to go under the goggles and actually use the system in VR. (It never would be the same as actually being there (at least not for a few years) but wouldn't it save a whole lot of physical storage space!) -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

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Win 3.0

by lfb107＠psu.edu

At 11:43 PM 1/30/98 GMT, Barry Peterson wrote: >On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:17:51 -0500, you said: > >>Barry Peterson wrote: >>> >>> I sold a drive (IIRC, a micropolis 85MB) that would spool up and then >>> do a couple of "ching-chings" and worked fine. I tested the livin' >>> daylights out of it; no problems, but many folks told me and the >>> fellow I sold it to that it would die immediately. >> >>So how long has the guy you sold it to been using it? (I've had bad >>luck with the Micropolis 40MB drives in some AT&T 3B1s). > >I had it for >3 years, he had it for two more, now his grandson has >it... So far, so good. >_______________ The Micropolis I stuck in my AT&T has been dropped twice and actually caught on fire once! Still works too... Believe it or not, chkdsk and scandisk both give it the 100% ok. Les

28 years, 2 months

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EPROM programmers

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The PIC is a lot older than most people think - I seem to recall that the <16C54 was first produced by GI (before they became Microchip) in about <1979. Of course there have been many new devices since then. Earlier and it was the cp1600 series (I think '77). GI was heavy in the embedded market then and used in the intellivison game to name one. I knew of them as they were down the block from me when I lived on LI(NY). Allison

28 years, 2 months

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Ricoh-based laser printers

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Similar, but not the same. Most copies are 'illuminate for white', most <laserprinters are 'illuminate for black'. This means the corona wires are <at different voltages, amongst other things. Not as much as your expect. I worked with both the 3300 copier and the printer version (XP12/24) and same for the Ricoh 1040(40ppm). It was coincidence we had both in the group so copier repair was a common task and not in my basic training. ;) <Also, the scanning in a photocopier is entirely mechanical, and is (in <general) synchronised mechanically. Laser printers have a lot of <electronic sync stuff, things like the laser beam detect sensor, the <registration shutter, etc. Like I said different optics. <Still, understanding a copier is a good starting point for understanding <a laser printer. Just expect there to be a lot of changes. The packaging of of the optical system is where the differece are significant but a basic understanding of electrophotography is in order and the xerox texts does cover reverse printing (uses reversed relative electrostatic bias). FYI: when training the trainer I stopped a smart ass FSE cold by tweeking the bias so everything was reversed. Took him 4 hours to swap everthing and not fix it. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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486 vs 386 (was Development, round II)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Actually, the 486 had different things that made it different from the 386. There's the math-co-processor (DX only), the .8 micron design, (on DX/2 50 and above only), as well as a built in floating point. There's also the ZIF socket on MOST (but not all) 486 motheboards, as companies were using their own designs, some with integrated chip, others with this and that, etc. Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca <jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, January 31, 1998 5:34 AM Subject: Re: 486 vs 386 (was Development, round II) > > >And you'll have to pardon my ignorance of the Intel parts after the 8085, > >but why wouldn't a 386 work if the 486 works? (Other than the speed > >difference.) It has always been my impression that few OS's/applications > >need whatever extra software features that differentiate the 486 from the > 386. > > > I believe the 486 was supposed to be just a 386 with a built-in math > co-processor. Then Intel came out with the 486SX. Which was really just a > broken DX, a 486 in which the built-in math co-processor didn't work. > > -- Kirk Not very much difference but 486 is really ahead in getting more of performance usually runs at least 1 cycle per instruction. The 386dx excutes instuctions all over the map between 5 and 15 (guessing). Example: 386dx/387 33mhz bit slower than 486dx 25. Remembering from years gone by in clone/brands world... First, before I'm done, for clock to clock cycles, 286 and 386 is no better at excuting instructions most of time usually but buyer opted for XT's and 286's because Intel was asking Too Much for 386, the 387 chip actually cost 2k at that time. This is why 386 is sooo late becoming popular when win 3.1 came out. At that time, in late 91s loads of users were still on XTs and we upgraded them to either 286 boards (286/20mhz PcMate yuk!) and once in awhile series of 386sx or rare 386dx for other upgrades. Within short time later about half a year boatloads of 386dx 33/40 and few 386sx thrown in now and then were sold for either pc and upgrades when the price is Right Thing. After 93-94ish, things lost their luste n' fun then became very common thing. (yawn) while we sold long series of 486 machines then P5 ever since. I have NOT remembered how CHEAP, useful real and good pc anywhere or when til now. 1~2k CDN gets you *VERY* decent complete P5 or PII machine with 14" color monitor now. I'm kicking PS/1 original 2011 because it has no hd and too little ram and it did sport 1k price tag but! That old days is very interesting time indeed! Jason D. email: jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D.

28 years, 2 months

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EPROM programmers

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 08:27 PM 1/30/98, you wrote: >portable and an EPROM eraser for $100. I bought another new that >interfaces to a printer port for $25 at a hamfest. Hey, I'm going to the Charlotte, NC Hamfest in March. Maybe I'll pick one up then. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

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EPROM programmers

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 02:08 PM 1/30/98 -0800, you wrote: >If you want to build your own, find the 4-volume set of _Ciarcia's Circuit >Cellar_ (or find the corresponding late-70's issue of _BYTE_) and look >at some of his designs. Heck, if I could do all that, I wouldn't be asking about them. :) I never got into electronics too much, just one class in high school, and I have big clumsy hands when it comes to soldering irons. But thanks to everyone for providing information on this subject. Who knows? Maybe once I get a programmer, I'll start burning my hands again. :) -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

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Development, round II

by bwit＠pobox.com

IIRC they started officially calling it Warp with V2.0, the first release following the Microsoft/IBM breakup. Bob ---------- From: Kip Crosby[SMTP:engine@chac.org] Sent: Friday, January 30, 1998 10:40 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Re[4]: Development, round II At 12:34 1/30/98 GMT, you wrote: >BTW What is Warp? Is it the OS/2 windowing system? If so, why would I >want to use it at all, let alone on a 286? ;-) Warp is OS/2v3. You couldn't use it on a 286, but if you had, say, a 486/33 -- do pardon me for mentioning a nine-year-old part -- it would begin to be worth playing with. My copy of Warp is still very much to hand, and I think anyone who can scrounge up an appropriate computer should run it (for a while) if they have the opportunity, because it's a real education. ____________________________________________________________ Kip Crosby, honcho, mechanic and sole proprietor, Kip's Garage http://www.kipsgarage.com: rumors, tech tips and philosophy for the trenches Coming Spring '98: The Windows 98 Bible by Kip Crosby and Fred Davis!

28 years, 2 months

2
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Ricoh-based laser printers

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<There are _very_ few good books on laser printers - and the manufacturers <do NOT supply decent technical manual in my experience. I found a book at <a charity shop (thrift store?) called 'Electrophotography' that gives a Copiers are the same technology save for the imaging systems. I should know I had an engineering finger in every laser printer with a DEC label starting with the LN01 (Xerox XP12) through the 2250 series and my specialty was the over 8PPM Ricoh engines. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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Point Four, Anadex, C-64 questions

by cgregory＠lrbcg.com

At the thrifts they are always priced at $50. or greater. The Adam is three pieces, and two of the pieces are on the large size. Those doing the pricing at the thrifts seem to equate size (and number of pieces) with price, so these systems tend to be priced higher than average. If you want one and can find one locally for $50 or less, then you should probably grab it. You can find them advertised on the net for less, but the shipping costs will kill any savings. BTW, don't make the mistake of leaving the printer behind if the pieces happen to be priced separately. The power supply for the computer is in the printer so you need it to power the system. Also the data tapes are non-standard and are becoming harder to come by. Cliff Gregory cgregory(a)lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> To: Cgregory <Cgregory> Date: Friday, January 30, 1998 3:43 AM Subject: Re: Point Four, Anadex, C-64 questions >At 08:36 PM 1/29/98 -0800, you wrote: >>> Also, what's a fair price for a Coleco Adam system: 2 keyboards, memory >>> box with datacassette drives, external numeric keypad with knob (paddle?), >>> and printer. >> >>$25 - $30 as long as it works. > >I have to disagree here... I'd say $50-75, possibly as high as $100 with >the extra parts, depending on how badly one wants one. (Again, assuming >it's working.) Mind you, that's what I'd feel comfortable selling it, >wihtout feeling like I'd ripped someone off. I don't know if I'd pay that >much right now, but catch me in a good month... >

28 years, 2 months

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Portables with printers attached (was Re: Interesting Find)

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Ya, that was the IBM PC Convertible. There's a picture of one with the printer attached at http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/IBMPCConvertible.htm. Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: PG Manney [SMTP:manney@nwohio.nwohio.com] > Sent: Friday, January 30, 1998 5:14 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Interesting Find > > > (Sharp PC-7100) > > > Notice how the handle can slide towards the back so it's off-center? > > Notice the little metal inserts along the top edge of the back? There's > a > > printer (I've only got one) that attaches to the back for portability. > > Didn't the IBM Portable (or convertible...whatever) do that?

28 years, 2 months

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Commodore Cable

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> Subject: More stuff [snip!] > Also got a strange Commodore cable. It has what looks like a double > ended HP-IB connector one end and a card edge connector on the other. All > the connectors have 24 contacts. Both ends have a heavy braided ground > strap. It looks like it's about 2 foot long. Any one know what this is >for? That is a PET to IEEE-488 cable, used to interface Commodore IEEE-488 Printers, Modems and Disk Drives to the PET/CBM, B-128 or P-500 series computers. They are getting hard to come by so if you think you may get a Commodore PET/CBM/B/P computer one day I would advise you hang onto it. Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 2 months

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Development, round II

by manney＠nwohio.nwohio.com

> Nope, xt286 was a way to put a cheap system of slightly higher performance > out there using slower parts. ...as with the 8088 vs 8086 and 386SX vs DX

28 years, 2 months

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Win 3.0

by manney＠nwohio.nwohio.com

> I saw a package of Win 2.0 in a surplus store here if anyone really wants > it I'll pick it up. No docs just the set of disks. I'd love it, if it's super cheap. Thanks. manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 2 months

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Interesting Find

by manney＠nwohio.nwohio.com

(Sharp PC-7100) > Notice how the handle can slide towards the back so it's off-center? > Notice the little metal inserts along the top edge of the back? There's a > printer (I've only got one) that attaches to the back for portability. Didn't the IBM Portable (or convertible...whatever) do that?

28 years, 2 months

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Development, round II

by manney＠nwohio.nwohio.com

> Speaking of polygonical manholes, does anyone know where to get a copy of > turtle logo for older macs? Or, perhaps even better, a cartridge version > for one of the 6502 machines (Atari, c64, etc.)? (This is for my niece who > is probably about ready to at least watch logo pgms.) > > At 01:06 PM 1/29/98 GMT, you wrote: > >indeed round because they then won't fall down the hole if you drop > >them. But other shapes share this property - triangular manholes are > > You may have triangular manholes (and, I assume, covers), but I disagree > with the statement that they won't fall in. (Mind you, they may not be > *likely* to, but that doesn't mean they won't.) > > Consider any regular (is that the right term?) polygon (i.e., all sides, > angles are equal). > > For an odd number of sides: imagine a line from an angle to the midpoint of > the opposite side. Imagine a second line, from that same angle to either > end of the opposite side. You've just created a right triangle (imaginary > lines, half the opposite side) wherein the first imaginary line *must* be > shorter than your second line. Put your first line parallel to the ground, > line up the manhole vertically above the corresponding second line on the > manhole, and drop. > > For an even number of sides: Do the same thing, only the reverse (opposite > angle and connected side, etc.) > > Oh, make sure there's no one down below before dropping *please* > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ >

28 years, 2 months

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Off-topic again (Waz: Military Computer Books...)

by manney＠nwohio.nwohio.com

<snip> However - we better watch our step as this is > a clip from email I received from the Sam Ismail about information like > this > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Once again, you've perpetuated off-topic non-sense thus <snip> 'Scuse me, but... No matter what the private differences...no matter the language used...perhaps private e-mail should stay private. I am uncomfortable at your sharing Sam's private opinions with everyone. Perhaps I'm defending Sam's feeling needlessly (Not meaning to do that, as Sam can do it himself without my unsolicited help), but defending my interests as well -- I, too send private e-mail to list members. If the discussion on this listserv continues to degenerate to that level -- and with the constant name-calling -- I, for one, will not feel that my interests are well-served by subscribing. manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 2 months

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Development, round II

by jfoust＠threedee.com

On my web site, I express my hopes to develop software to help rescue old cassette data by digitizing the tapes. I'm still hunting for specifications of the old formats. I just got a box full of Altair-era cassettes on loan. I plan to digitize them now and rescue the data later. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 2 months

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toner cleaning

by jfoust＠threedee.com

>Anyone here ever study >moon shining? Fasinating subject (except to Sam of course). Shore! And I can even tie these threads together in a relevant fashion. At a regular auction I'd once visit, I could pick up computer and video equipment for a song, and once I got a handmade, Prohibition-era copper still for $50, and met the guy whose grandfather made it. :-) - John

28 years, 2 months

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Development, round II

by agammuto＠konics.com

If I remember correctly, IBM released the XT 286 when the second generation PC/AT (with a faster clock - wasn't it 8 MHz?) came out. It was my impression then that the XT286 was an XT case with the older original AT motherboard inside. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Allison <mallison(a)konnections.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, January 29, 1998 10:04 PM Subject: Re: Development, round II >Tony: > >I just seem to remember _something_ about the XT286 that made me avoid >it for true 286 stuff. Maybe it was the memory. Most after market AT >boards had room for a meg or two. Maybe it was the 640... > >-Mike > >Tony Duell wrote: > >> I've not got the XT-286 techref to hand, so I can't look at the >> schematics. But I seem to remember that it's _very_ similar to the PC/AT >> - it's a lot closer to that machine than to the XT. There are 2 DMA >> controllers, 2 interrupt controllers, the 8042 keyboard controller (so it >> takes an AT keyboard), etc. My thoughts when I looked at the schematics >> were that it was a repackaged AT. Of course they could have missed out >> the extra reset logic, but I doubt it. >> >> It does use a non-standard motherboard, though. The memory is a little >> odd - 128K in DIPs (4 off 64K*4, 2 off 64K*1 for the parrity) and 2 256K >> SIMMs for a total of 640K. >> >> > >> > I guess.... >> > >> > -Mike >> >> -tony >

28 years, 2 months

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Update on finds

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> > Sun SPAREprinter model QA-6, anyone know how to do a self > > print test on this unit I can not find any buttons or anything; > > It will not do much unless you have it connected to a SPARCstation > running NeWSprint. The SPARCstation also requires a special S-bus card to > interface to the printer. > > In other words, you have either a worthless printer, or a good excuse to > go get yourself a SPARCstation. Oh, come off it! Surely there must be some way of finding out the protocol and building an interface and/or writing drivers for another machine! Which reminds me - I have a couple of Diablo 630 printers with ECS daisywheels which have strange edge connectors on the back. I am told this is a Qume Sprint 3 interface - has anyone got a technical spec.? Philip.

28 years, 2 months

3
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Development, round II

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> I looked in my never used copy of os2 version 1.3 standard edition and found > no mention of rexx so maybe it arrived in version 2.x but i'm not opening my > shrinkwrapped version to find out! minimum requirements for 1.3 are a 286, > 2meg, and 12 meg of hdd space. Worth a try then. But am I right in thinking that the AT doesn't implement all the 286 modes properly? I'm sure the XT286 doesn't.

28 years, 2 months

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Update on finds

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/30/98 6:49:52 AM Central Standard Time, Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk writes: > > In other words, you have either a worthless printer, or a good excuse to > > go get yourself a SPARCstation. > > Oh, come off it! Surely there must be some way of finding out the > protocol and building an interface and/or writing drivers for another > machine! > umm, the Sparcprinters are pretty useless without the card and the software. They really are dumb printers. I might have an old CD of NeWSprint, but then you might have licensing issues to deal with. Kelly KFergason(a)aol.com

28 years, 2 months

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eBay and online auctions

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Tony Duell wrote: > I suspect the real collectables will be the really obscure machines - > development systems, parallel machines, experimental machines, etc. No > idea if any will ever turn up second-hand, alas. Whyever not? You got a DAP didn't you? Philip.

28 years, 2 months

2
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Development, round II

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

I started a lot of debate when I wrote: > Worth a try then. But am I right in thinking that the AT doesn't > implement all the 286 modes properly? I'm sure the XT286 doesn't. The two rumours I had heard are thus: 1. The AT had been deliberately set up so that it couldn't make one of the transitions between modes - IBM were being paranoid and thinking of crackers having a back door - but this "feature" was removed in the PS/2. This is obviously a garbled version of the things you've all been telling me about 286s and the AT having to reset itself from time to time. Thank you for clearing this up. 2. Intel had a fault on a large batch of 286s that couldn't do some of the things you'd expect. IBM bought a job lot on the cheap and stuck them in XT286s. Can anyone tell me the origin of this latter rumour? Has it now been discredited? BTW What is Warp? Is it the OS/2 windowing system? If so, why would I want to use it at all, let alone on a 286? ;-) Philip. PS *** Off Topic *** I stand corrected. Uncle Roger is quite right about triangular manhole covers. However I don't know whether this still holds up (pun intended) if you have rounded corners and a thickness that is not negligible as well as the lip to support the cover in its normal position. I don't intend to try it to find out. Whoever posted that rather silly message about System/36 was right - this discussion has probably gone on too long. I will leave you with a thought: Make the cover a triangle, but with the sides arcs of circles centred on the opposite corner. (This works for any odd number of sides, like the 50p coin I mentioned earlier) P.

28 years, 2 months

4
4
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RD54 drive numbers.

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Does anyonehave the numbers to enter for an RD54 to put in a MicroVAX 2000? II think I need the actual h/c/s numbers rathert than the MSCP ones in disktab... The RD53 is full of errors, and this '54 seems to be woorking fune, so I'll LLF it and see about installing. -------

28 years, 2 months

1
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486 vs 386 (was Development, round II)

by kroma＠worldnet.att.net

>And you'll have to pardon my ignorance of the Intel parts after the 8085, >but why wouldn't a 386 work if the 486 works? (Other than the speed >difference.) It has always been my impression that few OS's/applications >need whatever extra software features that differentiate the 486 from the 386. I believe the 486 was supposed to be just a 386 with a built-in math co-processor. Then Intel came out with the 486SX. Which was really just a broken DX, a 486 in which the built-in math co-processor didn't work. -- Kirk

28 years, 2 months

2
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Point Four, Anadex, C-64 questions

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:36 PM 1/29/98 -0800, you wrote: >> Also, what's a fair price for a Coleco Adam system: 2 keyboards, memory >> box with datacassette drives, external numeric keypad with knob (paddle?), >> and printer. > >$25 - $30 as long as it works. I have to disagree here... I'd say $50-75, possibly as high as $100 with the extra parts, depending on how badly one wants one. (Again, assuming it's working.) Mind you, that's what I'd feel comfortable selling it, wihtout feeling like I'd ripped someone off. I don't know if I'd pay that much right now, but catch me in a good month... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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Apple //e

by szewczykm＠hcgi.com

Some things that I would like to find are an Apple //e system, a copy of Networks II BBS, and a copy of Nexus BBS. I'm pretty sure that along my travels I will eventually find the Apple //e but I don't know if I have a chance of finding either piece of software. I've done a lot of searching on the web, but I haven't found anything. Does anyone have what I'm looking for, or are there any resources I may be missing? Thanks, Mike

28 years, 2 months

1
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Military Computer Books (Waz: Off-topic...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<On the 1802: Did COSMAC VIP actually stand for something? COSMAC VIP was a packaged game machine that could also run simple programs using a very tiny interpreter (512 bytes) called CHIP-8. I have the manuals for one along with other 1802 docs and a few 1802s. Strange chip but made a fair stack machine. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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DEC Sold to Compaq!

by jfoust＠threedee.com

With this news, one of my first thoughts was that if Compaq intends to make money by selling its servers to DEC customers, software emulators of old DEC systems suddenly become very, very important! - John

28 years, 2 months

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Win 3.0, the answer

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Well, here are the genuine system requirements for Windows 3.0 -- I'm pretty sure these are correct, since I wrote this KnowledgeBase article back in 1990 :) If you know how to get the secret credit screen, you can see my name on there... Let me know if you have any other ancient Windows questions. Kai Windows 3.0 Modes and Memory Requirements [win3x] ID: Q58317 CREATED: 31-JAN-1990 MODIFIED: 21-NOV-1994 3.00 3.00a WINDOWS PUBLIC | kbdisplay SUMMARY ======= This article contains information on the processor and memory requirements for the three different operating modes of Microsoft Windows version 3.0. These modes are real mode (similar to Windows/286 versions 2.x), 286 standard mode (also known as 286 protected mode), and 386 enhanced mode (also known as 386 protected mode). MORE INFORMATION ================ WIN.COM automatically starts up Windows 3.0 in the proper mode for the configuration. However, Windows may be forced into one of the three modes through the following command-line switches: Switch Mode ------ ---- WIN /R Real mode WIN /S or WIN /2 Standard mode WIN /3 Enhanced mode Notes ----- 1. All numbers below are approximate and may vary widely depending on the configuration -- for example, Windows device drivers chosen, DOS version, display adapter, etc. 2. 128K of extended memory is recovered from shadow RAM usage on COMPAQ 386 machines. 3. Memory requirements take into account memory that can be recovered from SMARTDrive (down to the minimum cache size specified). Real Mode Requirements ---------------------- 1. The requirements for WIN.COM to automatically start up in real mode are as follows: a. 8088 processor or above b. 384K of free conventional memory (393,216 bytes reported by CHKDSK) 2. The actual real mode requirements are the same as above. Standard Mode Requirements -------------------------- 1. The requirements for WIN.COM to automatically start up in standard mode are as follows: a. 80286 processor or above b. 192K of free extended memory c. HIMEM.SYS loaded in the CONFIG.SYS file 2. The actual standard mode requirements are as follows: Standard mode conventional/extended memory requirements are mutually dependent and are not fixed. A typical installation requires a minimum of 128K free at the DOS prompt to run standard mode, assuming sufficient extended memory is free. Standard mode requires between 384K and 512K combined conventional and extended memory to run (approximately). For example, if only the minimum 192K of extended memory is free, approximately 322K of conventional is required to run standard mode. However, if available extended is increased to approximately 208K or greater, only 128K of conventional is required. This example is intended to illustrate that the memory requirements are an interrelated, variable issue. Enhanced Mode Requirements -------------------------- 1. The requirements for WIN.COM to automatically start up in enhanced mode are as follows: a. 80386 processor or above b. 1024K of free extended memory c. HIMEM.SYS loaded in the CONFIG.SYS file 2. The actual enhanced mode requirements are as follows: See notes for standard mode, above, relating to the interrelationship of conventional/extended requirements. A typical installation requires a minimum of 182K free at the DOS prompt to run enhanced mode, assuming sufficient extended memory is free. Enhanced mode requires between 580K and 624K combined conventional and extended memory to run (approximately). Note that enhanced mode is able to start up in low-memory situations only because it provides virtual memory support; although enhanced mode may run in such situations, it may be extremely slow due to the large amount of disk swapping it must perform. ============================================================================ ==== Created_by: KAIKAL Edit_review: DANAS Edited: 01-FEB-1990 Modified_by: DAVIDE Tech_review: RANDOW Reviewed: 23-FEB-1990 > -----Original Message----- > From: lfb107(a)psu.edu [SMTP:lfb107@psu.edu] > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 1998 9:11 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Win 3.0 > > > I might be mistaken, but I somehow recall that someone said that > it was possible to run windows 3.0 on an XT??? > > A buddy of mine gave me an unopened box of v3.0 but the back > says it requires a 286. > > So whats the deal? > > Les

28 years, 2 months

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Win 3.0

by lfb107＠psu.edu

I might be mistaken, but I somehow recall that someone said that it was possible to run windows 3.0 on an XT??? A buddy of mine gave me an unopened box of v3.0 but the back says it requires a 286. So whats the deal? Les

28 years, 2 months

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Win 3.0

by lfb107＠psu.edu

At 09:46 AM 1/30/98 -0500, Allison J Parent wrote: > ><I might be mistaken, but I somehow recall that someone said that ><it was possible to run windows 3.0 on an XT??? >< ><A buddy of mine gave me an unopened box of v3.0 but the back ><says it requires a 286. > >As best we could figure it may be a later version kit that does not have a >MDA/herc driver or some such. My copy of 3.000A does run on XTs and is >installed on a DTC turboXT so it runs in my lifetime. I didn't say it >would be fast. FYI a fast disk really helps. > Well, the sticker on the top says that it is version 3.00(3.5) but it does say that it will support CGA or Hercules so I might be in luck. Had an AT&T 6300 sitting around and thought it might be neat to run it on this. It's got an old Micropolis 40 megger on it thats pretty much empty. (Does anyone else think that the sounds made by old MFM drives is really cool??) On a different note, the monitor I have is an AT&T model as well that "shows up" as a CGA but looks a hell of a lot like EGA. Is it some kind of "Super CGA" that wasn't really supported by anyone? Les

28 years, 2 months

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Development, round II

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

Speaking of polygonical manholes, does anyone know where to get a copy of turtle logo for older macs? Or, perhaps even better, a cartridge version for one of the 6502 machines (Atari, c64, etc.)? (This is for my niece who is probably about ready to at least watch logo pgms.) At 01:06 PM 1/29/98 GMT, you wrote: >indeed round because they then won't fall down the hole if you drop >them. But other shapes share this property - triangular manholes are You may have triangular manholes (and, I assume, covers), but I disagree with the statement that they won't fall in. (Mind you, they may not be *likely* to, but that doesn't mean they won't.) Consider any regular (is that the right term?) polygon (i.e., all sides, angles are equal). For an odd number of sides: imagine a line from an angle to the midpoint of the opposite side. Imagine a second line, from that same angle to either end of the opposite side. You've just created a right triangle (imaginary lines, half the opposite side) wherein the first imaginary line *must* be shorter than your second line. Put your first line parallel to the ground, line up the manhole vertically above the corresponding second line on the manhole, and drop. For an even number of sides: Do the same thing, only the reverse (opposite angle and connected side, etc.) Oh, make sure there's no one down below before dropping *please* --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 2 months

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More stuff

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> Also got a strange Commodore cable. It has what looks like a double > ended HP-IB connector one end and a card edge connector on the other. All > the connectors have 24 contacts. Both ends have a heavy braided ground > strap. It looks like it's about 2 foot long. Any one know what this is for? It is a Commodore PET GPIB (HPIB) cable. Most PETs didn't have the standard GPIB connector (the 8032SK being the only exception I can call to mind) but had a 24 pin edge connector instead. The pinout is the same; pin spacing is 0.156 inch. The "Parallel User Port" (some useful lines from the 6522 VIA plus some diagnostic type stuff and video out) was a similar connector with keyways in different places. The 8032SK used a GPIB type connector for this as well, which I found very annoying when trying to connect one to a friend's BBC micro... but I digress. (BTW can anyone confirm: is 0.156 inch _really_ 0.156 inch or is it 5/32 inch?) Philip.

28 years, 2 months

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Win 3.0

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Deal is, you can't run Windows 3.x on any processor that doesn't have <protected mode. I think the last Windows you could run on an XT was 2.1 Wrong, it was 3.0 and I'm doing it. It was loaded from my diskset so there is no doubt. Now if you meant it would be slower than sludge no argument. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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Win 3.0

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I might be mistaken, but I somehow recall that someone said that <it was possible to run windows 3.0 on an XT??? < <A buddy of mine gave me an unopened box of v3.0 but the back <says it requires a 286. As best we could figure it may be a later version kit that does not have a MDA/herc driver or some such. My copy of 3.000A does run on XTs and is installed on a DTC turboXT so it runs in my lifetime. I didn't say it would be fast. FYI a fast disk really helps. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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Win 3.0

by kroma＠worldnet.att.net

>I might be mistaken, but I somehow recall that someone said that >it was possible to run windows 3.0 on an XT??? > It's not documented and MS never mentioned it, but yes it will work on an XT. -- Kirk

28 years, 2 months

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back ontopic: mac 400k drive.

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:23 PM 1/27/98 +0000, you wrote: >rather have a service manual that starts 'Take the HDA into a clean room >and undo the cover screws (#1 in fig 4.2), lift off cover' etc than one The problem, of course, from the mfr's point of view, is that some bozo is going to think "hmmm... Larry across the hall has a maid come twice a month, I'll take it over there and..." and then they have to deal with 1) repairing/replacing the drive, 2) losing a customer who thinks they should fix it under warranty. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 2 months

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Apple ][+ OS

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>DOH! Did I start off on the IIgs again? I didn't even notice you were >talking about the II+... THIS is why I shouldn't be allowed to send email >at 12:30 in the morning! Don't worry, the feeling is not unfamiliar to me. (Someone mentions IBM, I start with the RS/6000's, Deep Blue, etc.) >OK, for the II+, ProDOS is probably what you want. DOS 3.3(I've never seen this one) >or CP/M(only one I have is my Hayes >SmartModem 300 disk) are supposed to be around. Do you know how much RAM >yours has? I have an extra copy of ProDOS(still shrinkwrapped!! I'm not >sure which version), and it needs more RAM than a stock II+ has. I guess >whatever a II+ with a memory expansion card would have... I seem to >remember 64k being on the box. As for the disks, I'm not sure. Try digging >around at http://www.apple2.org, it should have plenty of info(I know it >has a link to the csa2 newsgroup FAQ). OK... well, if I can't find anything else, I'll take the old copy, as I think that you might want to hang on to the shrinkwrapped copy. I wouldn't know what it was like, as I wasn't around when it was made. But, anyway, I'll take the old copy, you can use the new one, as a "liscense", make a backup copy of the disks, and then everyone's happy. ;-) Thanks for the help, Tim D. Hotze >-JR http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek > >

28 years, 2 months

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Apple ][+ OS

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Yes, I know about the IIGS, it's a pretty nice GUI machine. When I was in second grade, that's all that they had in my old school. But, I'm not getting a IIGS, I'm getting a II+, the one that came before the IIe. (I think) Anyway, is ProDOS the best? Also, does the Apple ][ juse SS/SD disks? If so, where can I get osme? Thanks, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: John Rollins <rexstout(a)ptld.uswest.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, January 30, 1998 11:28 AM Subject: Re: Apple ][+ OS >> Hello. I'm going to get one of these >from Jeff Kaneko. One thing: >>What OS's are avaible? I tried looking on Apple's site, but didn't >>really find >>anything too interesting. What's the one that the most sofware was written >>for? Most "standard", and what kind of stuff's avaible for a II+ (I'm >>sure that >>that's not a simple question.) Thanks, Tim D. Hotze PS-Does anyone >>have Apple ][+ disks? > >The IIgs will run any Apple II+/IIe OS(ProDOS, DOS 3.3, etc...), or GS/OS >which is a modified version of MacOS. GS/OS is available on Apple's FTP >site. The IIgs will also run most Apple II+/IIe software, can use most of >the Apple II+/IIe expansion cards and floppy drives. Definitley the most >capable machine in the Apple II line. > >-JR http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek > >

28 years, 2 months

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Found some printer cards for Apple ][ computers

by go＠ao.com

At least it's what they appear to be... Found at a local electronic "computer" store: several printer cards for what appears to be Apple ][ computers. (I'm not an Apple person, so I don't know the bus layout.) The connector is a 50 pin edge-card (25 per side) and there is a 20 pin header on the board, to which attaches a companion flat cable with a conventional Centronics-style 36 pin connector at the end. The cable is 3 feet long, and it looks like it was meant to exit the enclosure and plug directly into a printer. There is an on-board 2716 eprom (I might dump the contents at work to see if there is any manufacturer info inside.) There is absolutely no manufacturer name or info on the board other than what appear to be part numbers (I think): "APL B" and "SP-201-EP-0" in the silkscreen and "H-002" in the copper foil. Parts are all SSI (74LS00 series) with date codes around 1984. They were free, so if anyone wants one or more, let me know. All I ask is shipping or "you pick up." I'm in Corvallis, Oregon. Oh, and I should say for emphasis: I HAVE NO IDEA IF THEY WORK and NO WARRANTIES EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED. Contact me by email if you want them. I don't have any Apples, so don't have a reason to save them. Just didn't want to see them dumpstered. Gary.

28 years, 2 months

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Apple ][+ OS

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hello. I'm going to get one of these from Jeff Kaneko. One thing: What OS's are avaible? I tried looking on Apple's site, but didn't really find anything too interesting. What's the one that the most sofware was written for? Most "standard", and what kind of stuff's avaible for a II+ (I'm sure that that's not a simple question.) Thanks, Tim D. Hotze PS-Does anyone have Apple ][+ disks?

28 years, 2 months

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What I did this weekend

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

I'm behind in my e-mail again... At 10:09 PM 1/11/98, you wrote: > I have a bunch of HP 75Ds. I also have the manuals for them. Let me know >if you need any info about them. What is a HP LS/12 ? I've never heard of The LS/12 is actually made by Zenith; I think it's a Supersport? Basic '286 (iirc) PC laptop. I'm working on scanning the photos I've taken; someday I'll get a web page set up. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 2 months

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Military Computer Books (Waz: Off-topic...)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:51 PM 1/29/98 -0600, you wrote: >be some GREAT surplus stores in San Francisco - saw my only wire recorder >there as well as some interesting radar equipment, that at the time, I >thought was still classifed. Years later (88) I couldn't find them. >Anybody know what happened to them? I think they were on Market street Hmmm.. There's Kaplan's on Market about 6th; They do mostly army-surplus-esque camping gear and some uniforms and tenner shoes. There's another one about between 7th & 8th that (last time I was in) seems to cater only to the bigger-is-better-in-knives-and-forget-about-quality crowd. (They're actually probably just about right above me as I type this!) There used to be a really good one on Mission (one block south) between 7th & 8th, but they went out of business in the early 80's. I don't know of any *real* military surplus stores around SF anymore; though you'd think there would be some, what with Mare Island Naval ShipYard, Treasure Island, Alameda (Nuclear Wessels!), The Presidio, etc. There are a few electronics surplus stores around, especially down in the (silicon) valley. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 2 months

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Photos of VCF I

by hansp＠columbia.digiweb.com

Haven't seen this mentioned on the list. The VCF was, of course, organized by our very own Sam... -- Hans B. Pufal : <mailto:hansp@digiweb.com> Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : <http://www.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/> _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ Subject: Vintage Computer Festival 01 photo web site! Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:04:16 GMT From: kenm(a)nospam.csus.edu (Ken Montgomery) Organization: CSU Sacramento Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers, comp.society.folklore I wanted to let everyone who watches this group for information about the history of computing and old computers that I have put up a new page with lots of photographs taken at the Vintage Computer Festival that was held on October 25th and 26th 1997, at the Alameda County Fairgrounds in Pleasanton, California. The Festival was an event held to celebrate computers and their history. The site is: <http://members.tripod.com/~km88mph/> The site contains photographs that I took of the exhibit area and the sellers area, both were inside the same hall. So check out the page and drop me line!

28 years, 2 months

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Stuff, while we're at it...

by mallison＠konnections.com

I have the following items that have to go: MAC Plus, good basic system w/key & mouse 1 - 4 meg of mem $10 MAC 512k, monitor fuzzy, but works free with Plus. External 400k drive for Mac $5 Bernoulli 5mb Removeable drive for Mac $10 (+ Software) Apple IIe Enhancement kit. (A2M2052) Don't ask me. New in shrinkwrapped box $5 Northgate DOS 4.0 with Manuals (3 ring) and Covers + Install disks $10 I've got other but that's it for now. Please keep shipping in mind. If you really need something on this list or off, please email me off line and I'll see if I can find it. Thanks, Mike

28 years, 2 months

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eBay and online auctions

by engine＠chac.org

At 22:33 1/29/98 -0500, you wrote: >I think laptops will be hot collectables, as they are small and often >clever. Especially the early color laptops (e. g. NEC Multispeed 386) which very few people bought. Laptops made out of funny materials -- the magnesium GRIDs or the Toshibas with carbon-fiber cases. The nicer palmtops (they can pry my Pofo from my cold dead fingers....) And, of course, several of the hardened military micros. And the rarer Ataris. And Lisas!! >>Suns and SGIs, probably. Acorn RISC-PC's, probably. Alphas, again >>probably. MIPS. HP Kayaks -- buy now while they're cheap! ;-) >I say yes to all of these. Me^2, __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 2 months

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