- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by kroma＠worldnet.att.net

> Here's the setup. CMS SCSI card to Miniscribe 20mb hard drive (old Mac >SE drive). GS/OS 6.0.1 diskettes used to setup the hard drive. All files >copied to hard drive with no errors; files are visible and runable from >GS/OS. Turning off the machine and turning it back on produces a "Check >startup device" error. Booting with the "no harddrive" GS/OS diskette works >fine. All required files are on the hard drive. > Do you turn the HD on first and let it warm up for about 30 seconds, before you turn on the GS? -- Kirk

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Convex C3200 computer (Melbourne)

by adam＠merlin.net.au

>> >We have a huge Convex C3200 computer (it would have been termed >> >a supercomputer when it was new). It's basically worthless to us. > >So it probably can be had for the right price! Apparantly so. They have had tow offers for it - $200 from some scrap metal dealers, and a couple of cartons of beer from me. Apparantly mine is the best offer. >Those Convex machines are very nice looking, by the way - black and >yellow. And even if it is a bit old, it could still beat the hell out of >PeeCee in the performance department. That's the bit which sold me - I have a thing for black computers. :) >In any case, someone please grab it. It looks like I might be doing so after all. Any idea about what I could do with such a beast? I know that it would be wasted on me - I would be unable to push it at all - but I will keep it until someone who can really use it shows up, and I might as well see if I can put it to some use in the meantime. I gather it runs unix, so could I use it as an internet server for some rather high-demand applications? It seems a bit sad to accept the computer when I can't really use it, but I would much rather that than to see it scrapped. Adam.

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Freebies spoken for...

by kyrrin2＠wizards.net

Yes, that's right. Not more than four hours after I posted the availability of a slew of RL02 packs, a mini-rack, etc., in pops a message >from CLASSICCMP's own Kevin McQuiggin (Thanks, Kevin!). He'll be coming down from Vancouver to get the stuff in the next week or so. All I can say is... geez, that was fast! ;-) Caveat emptor. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Atari 8-bit Find

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

Yesterday after several long weeks of lackluster thrifing I came across a 'complete' Atari XE game system. (though I have been avoiding that Atari ST at the other thrift store for weeks as I just don't have the room for it and whatever else it may need.) Of course, as many thrift stores do, they broke up the system down into several 'parts' and I dutifully browsed through the store and re-collected it. (for those unfamiliar with thrift store procedure, they bag the computer as one item, the disks as another, the drive as yet another, the power supply seperate, cables separate also, etc.) Remember if you find a hint of something you are collecting at a thrift, look around for other components (i.e. if you find a Commodore IEEE-488 cable start looking for PET/B-128 drives, printers, computers, tapes, disks, manuals, etc.) Among the items I got: XE game unit (equiv to Atari 65XE) with keyboard & Power Pack SIO & TV cables 1030 Modem 1050 Drive & Power Supply Atari Light Gun Several Cartridge games (including Bug Hunt which uses the gun) 2 packages of assorted hand-labeled disks for the Atari Several packages of orignal games, (mostiy SSI combat simulations, but all with complete instructions and very good condition boxes) I passed on the Atari Sticks as I have better than the 'Atari standard joystick' to use with it. Everything seems to be working great (except for loose video and audio jacks, but that is easily fixed) Now I am finally able to really play with the Atari disk drive more as I found a wealth of disk-based software to experiment with (BASIC programs and ROM dumps). The only thing I didn't get was a power supply for the modem, if I can't find one around the house I know just where to get one for a couple bucks. Then I can start transferring some of the Atari stuff from the internet to Atari disk. People keep saying how great the Atari 8-bit was/is, but when it comes to interfacing on a base system it is pretty limited... You can't do much communication without an 850 or a modem (I know some of you are going to talk about APE or some other PC to atari converter, but I don't have a PC...) The Commodore 8-bits are WAY easier to interface/communicate to anything. Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

IBM PC-Junior

by jolminkh＠c2.telstra-mm.net.au

>The monitor is a standard CGA monitor with an adapter cable. I can >provide wirelists if anyone needs them. The printer port sidecar has a I thought it had a special monitor, mainly because video display modes 8, 9 and 10 were exclusive to it.

28 years, 2 months

5
6
0 0

LCD life

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 01:15 AM 2/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone know how well LCDs hold up against time (provided, of course, >that they are not cracked!)? I had a Zenith Supersport XT laptop with CGA LCD in here a while back. Display looked fine to me. I've never heard of LCDs going bad like a monitor does. My LCD watch has been going strong for about the last 7 years, but I realize the design is alot simpler. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

FS Early computer (fwd)

by william＠ans.net

Any interest? If so, deal with Rag directly... William Donzelli william(a)ans.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:18:38 +0100 From: Ragnar Otterstad <otterstad(a)inet.uni2.dk> To: William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net> Subject: Re: FS Early computer ---------- > nixi-tubes so I guess it qualifies for this reflector. > > > > > > Somebody collecting early computers ? I have a late 1970s desktop > > computer > > > made in Silicon Valley > > > with nixi display, a unique tape drive build in. > > Who made it, and what model is it? California technology International, Santa Clara, CA Model 1032A I could probably point you towards > someone that might want it (I belong to the ClassiComp list as well as > BA). > > William Donzelli > william(a)ans.net >

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Another successful "shopping" stip to Temple Univ.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: "Richard A. Cini" <rcini(a)email.msn.com> < 1. Misc. boards: LA100 and LA180 logic boards, MDB DB-11, unknown < Printronix board (has IM6402 processor, PCB# 104801-002 R Printronix, that is a UART(RCA6402). Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Disk Exerciser

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<>When I heard the description, I assumed it was a standalone box you coul <>connect a floppy to, and test every function on the floppy, maybe use it <>a burn-in test or something like that. < < It could be used for that but I have always used them for testing and <aligning drives. It only directly tests the positioning system not the <read or write systems. However you can look at the data pattern with a <scope if you use a formatted disk. In fact, that's exactly what you do <when you align the heads. You use a specially formatted disk called an <alignment disk and you position the drive heads to a location between tw <special tracks of data and you mechanically adjust the head so that both <track siganls are equal. The Shugart unit and also one I made could proveide basic write data patterns for checking the write logic and also seeing if the basic read logic works and dince the pattern is a stable one the quality of the read data. The common checks was track 00/01 repeating for track 0 detector. Also displaying the state of the write protect led, index led and allowed testing of the motor on, drive select and drive select led. The media(diskette) usually used with it allowed checking index position, read amp balance and gain, thresholds, and track alignment. Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

publishing notes/hints

by mallison＠konnections.com

Just a thought To Whom It Concerns: Since I'm a publisher with a pretty good set up here for both paper and electronic publishing. I'd like to offer anyone who desires such services as creation of PDF files, typesetting, editing or organizing any documents to contact me. I can usually do most straight forward things like create PDF from ascii text in a couple of minutes. Editing, formatting, whathave you, takes more time. I'm not interested in charging for this, unless you are trying to make some money on a project and need an editor/publisher. Regardless, I don't mind helping out. If you need a hand with anything, please contact me through the list or personally at: mallison(a)konnections.com We've started a web page for documents that's still in its infancy at: http://www.konnections.com/bebooks/catalog.htm Our goal is to put every living available document there... might be ambitious. I'll be happy to post documents there as a service if you need a place. Thanks, -Mike Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Disk Exerciser

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 10:09 PM 2/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >I've never HEARD of a disk exerciser. > >What on earth is one for? Pushups? Situps? When I heard the description, I assumed it was a standalone box you could connect a floppy to, and test every function on the floppy, maybe use it as a burn-in test or something like that. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

IBM PC-Junior

by jolminkh＠c2.telstra-mm.net.au

> >Are modes 8,9,10 things like 320*200 in 16 colours? > >Remember the CGA monitor can display 16 colours (there are 4 TTL-level >digital input lines). The original CGA card didn't have enough memory (or >the right logic) to do anything more than 2 colours at 320*200, although >the monitor would have been capable of it. The PC-jr did have enough >memory for this. An old reference I have says: mode 8 is 160X200 16 colors mode 9 is 320X200 16 colors mode 10 is 640X200 4 colors My PC JX monitor has a 16 pin connector, same shape as a games port. Hans

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

IBM PC type 5150

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-02-14 21:03:44 EST, you write: << For an external drive. The one I have in the garage is IBM# 4869 (360KB). I've seen a 720KB 3.5" version but don't know its' #. >> the 4869 is the big external ps2 floppy drive, usually with a 360k drive hiding inside. am i correct any floppy controller with the external connector can run this drive? david

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Memotech MTX500

by adam＠merlin.net.au

>> Another lucky find - a Memotech MTX500 for $2. :) Beautiful computer - >> aluminium case, nice looking external power supply, and black. > >Wouldn't that be MTX512? No. It seems that the 512 was the 64k version of the 500 - the 500 was 32k and thus slightly cheaper. Adam.

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

FREE Disk Drive!

by kyrrin2＠wizards.net

OK, here we go. LOCAL PICKUP ONLY in Kent, WA (near Seattle). There's no flaming way I'm shipping this thing unless someone wants to pay the freight up front. ;-) What I've got is a Century Data M315-1 SMD disk drive. 14" platters, God only knows what capacity it is. It seems to power up and spin up OK, is noisy as blazes, has a HUGE linear voice-coil head positioner, and that's about all I know (or want to know) about it. I'll happily hand this beast, along with its rack mounting rails, over to the first happy vic... uhh, 'volunteer' to speak up and say they'll come get it. Any takers? If not, and I can't get any from comp.sys.dec, I'll have no choice but to tear out the useful parts and scrap the rest. Drop me a note, please. I hate to scrap anything, but I need the room! I'd far rather give the beast to someone who can use it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc.

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hi. I wanted to know what printers are avaible for an Apple ][+, with 64K RAM, as well as any other disk drives other than the Disk II. Also, where can I get one of these (either of the above items)? Thanks again, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

BBC Model B - video help

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

I have just retreived a BBC computer. Seems to work fine, and I have managed to get directories of several of the (rather warped) 5.25 disks. I'm extremely surprised any data is readable at all - nice looking tandem dual floppy. However, onscreen I see there's a problem with the machine. I see perhaps 1/5th of the screen and then it repeats. Furthermore, the width of the screen isn't correct... that is, I see 20 or so character wide lines displaying and thus staircaising. I suspect its a hardware problem (almost 100% certain here, I've tried software mode changes - same in every mode), but have nil hardware expertise. So, when (occasionally) i see a > prompt, and type, i see what I type perhaps 20 times in varying places on the screen, each line offset from the other. Can anyone suggest my first steps to playing with it - what sort of chips should I be looking for, perhaps? I know, I'm behind the 8-ball, but you're all such brilliant guys at restoration, right? Any help much appreciated. Cheers Andrew >From "cad at " at gamewood.net Fri Feb 13 23:22:44 1998 From: "cad at " at gamewood.net (Charles A. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: BBC Model B - video help References: <01bd3905$ff8703a0$3ef438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <199802140528.AAA03565(a)fox.gamewood.net> Andrew Davie wrote: > > I have just retreived a BBC computer. > Seems to work fine, and I have managed to get directories of several of the > (rather warped) 5.25 disks. I'm extremely surprised any data is readable at > all - nice looking tandem dual floppy. > However, onscreen I see there's a problem with the machine. > I see perhaps 1/5th of the screen and then it repeats. Furthermore, the > width of the screen isn't correct... that is, I see 20 or so character wide > lines displaying and thus staircaising. I suspect its a hardware problem > (almost 100% certain here, I've tried software mode changes - same in every > mode), but have nil hardware expertise. > So, when (occasionally) i see a > prompt, and type, i see what I type > perhaps 20 times in varying places on the screen, each line offset from the > other. > Can anyone suggest my first steps to playing with it - what sort of chips > should I be looking for, perhaps? > I know, I'm behind the 8-ball, but you're all such brilliant guys at > restoration, right? > Any help much appreciated. > Cheers > Andrew Hi Andrew: Here is what I would look for and try to adjust --- Horizontal frequency. This sounds like it is some multiple of the desired (for the monitor) rate. That's what's getting the multiple images across the width of the screen. Also (maybe first, but definitely in conjunction with the above) look for 'Vertical' frequency/lock. This one is what is getting you multiple images in the vertical direction. Memory says that the adjustment is "roll down (image) and just return the adjustment the other direction till it locks in place." The 'horizontal lock' is a much courser adjustment. (This is all standard TV/Monitor adjustment stuff. If anyone has any specific advice different from this, by all means, give it a try.) Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- He, who will not reason, is a bigot; William Drumond, he, who cannot, is a fool; Scottish writer and he, who dares not, is a slave. (1585-1649) While he that does, is a free man! Joseph P. 1955- ----------------------------------------------------------- (be sure to correct the return address when using 'reply') Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad(a)gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

PDP-11/44 Boards

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Something tells me this machine isn't going to be running anytime soon. Here is what I found when I got into the CPU. M7090 KD11-Z 11/44 console interface module M7093 FP11-F 11/44 floating point module M7094 KD11-Z 11/44 data path module M7095 KD11-Z 11/44 control module M7096 KD11-Z 11/44 multifunction module M7097 KK11-B 11/44 4-Kword cache module M7098 KD11-Z 11/44 UNIBUS interface M7762 RL11 RL01/02 disk drive controller M9902 M7762 RL11 RL01/02 disk drive controller M8256 RX211 RX02 floppy disk drive control module M7819 DZ11-A 8-line double-buffered async EIA with modem control (50 to 96-Kbaud, 64-byte silo) M7819 DZ11-A 8-line double-buffered async EIA with modem control (50 to 96-Kbaud, 64-byte silo) M7800 DL11 Async transmitter & receiver, 110-2400 baud Based on the info on the cover, the system is missing the following. M7091 KE44-A 11/44 CIS control store module M7092 KE44-A 11/44 CIS data path/logic module M8743 MS11-PB 1-Mbyte ECC RAM M7521 DELUA-AA UNIBUS to ethernet adaptor SPC BC11-25 TO TM11 I've no idea what the last three are, I suspect the 'TO TM11' is actually the huge ribbon cable that is plugged into the backplane. I'm assuming that without the M7091 and M7092 that there is no use in coming up with a RAM board. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 2 months

4
5
0 0

Vacuum cleaners

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Today I found in a magazine called T3 (essentially a high-tech catalog) a robotic vacuum cleaner just as we discussed recently. It uses radar, and works kind of like that robotic lawnmower released several year ago. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Apple //gs boot problem

by rcini＠email.msn.com

I finally got a working SCSI card for my Apple //gs, but I now have a problem booting off of the hard drive. Here's the setup. CMS SCSI card to Miniscribe 20mb hard drive (old Mac SE drive). GS/OS 6.0.1 diskettes used to setup the hard drive. All files copied to hard drive with no errors; files are visible and runable from GS/OS. Turning off the machine and turning it back on produces a "Check startup device" error. Booting with the "no harddrive" GS/OS diskette works fine. All required files are on the hard drive. It's almost like a boot block is not written to the drive. For installation instructions, I culled info from Nathan Mate's Apple // web site. Any clues?? I installed GS/OS multiple times with the same results. Thanks! Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc.

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

OK... what's a cheap (small) compatible dot matrix? Thanks again, Tim d. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Bill Girnius <thedm(a)sunflower.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, February 14, 1998 7:20 PM Subject: Re: Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc. You can use just about any dot matrix printer made as long as you have a parallel port interface, which are very common second hand. Grappler is the best IMHO. -----Original Message----- From: Hotze <photze(a)batelco.com.bh> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, February 14, 1998 10:07 AM Subject: Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc. Hi. I wanted to know what printers are avaible for an Apple ][+, with 64K RAM, as well as any other disk drives other than the Disk II. Also, where can I get one of these (either of the above items)? Thanks again, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc.

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-02-14 11:06:33 EST, you write: << Hi. I wanted to know what printers are avaible for an Apple ][+, with 64K RAM, as well as any other disk drives other than the Disk II. Also, where can I get one of these (either of the above items)? Thanks again, >> the best printer for apples would have been something like an epson fx80 or similar. most programs back then pretty much expected that model. i remember using print shop with an epson and it taking up to 30 minutes to print something and the teacher getting mad because it was so bad on the ribbon printing all that black! david

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc.

by thedm＠sunflower.com

You can use just about any dot matrix printer made as long as you have a parallel port interface, which are very common second hand. Grappler is the best IMHO. -----Original Message----- From: Hotze <photze(a)batelco.com.bh> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, February 14, 1998 10:07 AM Subject: Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc. Hi. I wanted to know what printers are avaible for an Apple ][+, with 64K RAM, as well as any other disk drives other than the Disk II. Also, where can I get one of these (either of the above items)? Thanks again, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Diablo 1340 terminal?

by rws＠ais.net

Hi all- Tonight I got a Diablo 1340 hardcopy terminal. It looks like a table with a Diablo 1550 typewriter on top of it, but the typewriter is part of the table. Inside the large black box under the table are power supplies, cardcages, fans, etc. It works, except for one thing: whether in local or remote, whenever the 1550 gets a carriage return, it rams the home hard stop and the ALARM and PRINTER CHECK lights go on. I press ALARM to reset it and it works fine until the next carriage return. I tried adjusting the home stop in and out (it's actually a stiff spring-loaded stop) with no luck. When the terminal is first powered on and it seeks home (slowly) it does fine, without hitting the stop. Any ideas? (BTW this thing is just jam-packed with 7400 series logic and a couple of chips I can't identify. It was built in 1974 and installed in May 1975- I even got the maintenance record with this thing. It's serial no. 769.) Richard Schauer rws(a)ais.net

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Scanlon Assembly Book

by mallison＠konnections.com

I'm trying to find a copy of Leo Scanlon's original IBM PC assembly language book. Seems like it had a lion on the cover. I gave mine away in 1988 to help someone out (hope it helped) and I need a new copy. I've made do with others, but I really liked that one. Any takers??? Thanks alot.. Mike Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
1
0 0

Disk Exerciser

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi, went to a hamfest and picked up a Wango Disc Exerciser. Can anyone tell me what drives it works works on? It's a blue box about 5 x 8" inches in size and 3/4" think and has a ribbon cable connector at one end. It has the following switches: Start, auto-man, seq-alt, inc-fix-dec, 200 -100 TPI, Top-Bot Head, Rem-Fix Disc, Restore. I have used disk exercisers before so I know what all the switches are for, I just need to know what drive(s) it' for. Joe

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

disk equals license

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:22 PM 2/12/98, you wrote: > He is. Having the original version was a condition to him being allowed >to buy the upgrade. I suspect that that varies from vendor to vendor. Furthermore, unless it is specifically stated on the info about getting the upgrade, I don't think it would hold true, legally. > That says it all. You must have the old version as a condition to have >the upgrade. Unless the license for the new version eliminates the license (or inherits, if you prefer) for the old version. Which would make the old system disks as invalid (unlicensed, whatever) as a backup of the old version. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Opening PDP-11/44 CPU

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Well, I've got a long weekend, so I've decided to start in on my restoration project by determining exactly what I've got. I few minutes ago I figured out how to get into the RL02 drives, only to discover they are empty. Now I'm trying to figure out how on earth to open up the CPU to find out what cards are in it. Both James Willing and myself spent a little time trying to figure this out the day I bought it with no luck. Finally gave up and moved it with the CPU still in the rack. The CPU in question is sitting in the top of a DEC rack that I believe is about 4' high. There appear to be some sort of hydralic things on either side of the box. Anybody have any questions, ideas, or suggestions? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

IBM PC-Junior

by jolminkh＠c2.telstra-mm.net.au

If you found this in Australia with a 240v power supply, this is a unique computer. I don't think the "PC Junior" was ever sold outside the US. Most of the design was however later used by IBM Japan, and sold in Australia as the PC JX. It is probably very similar but had a different monitor and a different looking case. PC JX's are fairly common here as they were used in schools etc, but on the other hand they may be disappearing. I think they are classic computers and collectible. -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Davie <adavie(a)mad.scientist.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, 13 February 1998 14:47 Subject: IBM PC-Junior >"some IBM PC Junior pieces (a monitor, printer, cpu, keyboard). last time i >plugged it in, it worked" > >I would appreciate some info; I don't knnow anything about this one. >Should I grab it, and if so, what is a fair price? Ie: is it scarce, do i >want it. > >Andrew >

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Apple II info ?

by kroma＠worldnet.att.net

I also have an Apple II Duodisk, which unlike the II fdd s has a DB25 pin female connector. Were these for the GS or did Apple simply upgrade the disk connections with the + or A-3. would it work on a II with an adapter ? ----------- Actually the Duodisk never worked properly on the GS. They were designed for latter model //e's. Apple redesigned the Disk 2 controller card to use the new connector. -- Kirk

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

System/34 contd.

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Needless to say, I was extremely disappointed when I was told that the manuals and software for the System/34 were thrown away, along with 5 5250 video terminals. There are three left, and I picked up one of the two remaining manuals. If was somewhat amused by some parts of the manuals. for example, after instructions on mailing comments, "Comments become the property of IBM". A full page on safety, including CPR instructions. On line reads,"Wer safety glasses when performing any work that may be hazardous to your eyes. REMEMBER-THEY ARE YOUR EYES" another,"Knowing safety rules is not enough. An unsafe act will inevitbly lead to an accident. Use good judgement - eliminate unsafe acts." A warning"The display station has a weight of ~ 34kg (75lb). NEVER LIFT BY YOURSELF" With all this, I'm surprised they ever got sued... PS Does anyone have the jumper setting for a Tiara Lancard /E*AT? PPS I am reading "The Soul of a New Machine". Great book! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Real hackers

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:17 PM 2/11/98 -0500, you wrote: ><People try, but the age of hacking is gone. Right now, there is just ><nothing exciting in the computing industry. Wait till holographic > >You got to be kidding. Just look around the edges at things like >autonomus robots and navagation to suggest a few. Theres plenty to be And there is plenty of opportunity in terms of software -- new uses for the internet connectivity is a big one. CUSeeMe, for example and the internet phone stuff... These are things that make me envision some guy, surrounded by empty coke bottles, about 3 in the morning thinking, "Hey, if I can send data over voice lines, why can't I send voice over data lines?" and such. Also, how about purpose-built devices? Wanna buy a dedicated alphapaging station so you're grandmother (who keeps pointing her calculator at the Microwave and trying to change the channel) can just turn it on, type a message (See, grandma, it's just like a typewriter!) and hit a send button to send you an alphapage? Probably can't do it affordably. But take a Basic Stamp, add a keyboard and a little LCD screen, some code, and voila... Speaking whihc, has anyone else ever read Heinlein's book (whose name I've forgotten) about the inventor whose partners steal everything and freeze him for 20 years etc? One of the things he invents is an automated vacuum cleaner. When Heinlein wrote the book, I'm sure that would have been very expensive and very difficult to do. Now, however, it would seem like an acheivable goal, especially since Heinlein does a lot of the specs for you... So how come you can't buy one at Target? Anyone want to make millions? (That book, btw, is what made me want to be an EE (along with Steve Ciarcia calling it "programming in solder"). Perhaps someday I'll finally get to become one...) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

4
3
0 0

disk equals license

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Whoops, I didn't read it all. Only the person that posseses the license is the person who owns it. It dosn't matter who original purchased it, if the license was purchased it is then transferred. But if you give the disks back, and keep the software, your the bad guy. [sorry, just woke up] -----Original Message----- From: Mike Allison <mallison(a)konnections.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, February 13, 1998 12:24 AM Subject: Re: disk equals license >Uncle Roger wrote: >> Here's a question... Let's say my friend, who has a legal copy of xyz >> software, buys the upgrade version of xyz 2.0. He installs it, it checks >> for the previous version, and all is right with the world. He then gives >> me his old xyz 1.0 disks. I install it, purchase the upgrade, etc. >> >> Who (if anyone) is wrong? >> >> Now, let's say, we've both upgraded, and I give him back his original >> disks. Am I now a pirate? Was I a pirate before? Or was he the pirate >> before? > >You're wrong (in this case) You stole the upgrade from the company >because you didn't have the right to the upgrade. Then you stole the >upgrade. You now have a free copy running on your machine. > >You didn't pay for the original disks (not a crime) but the SINGLE >entitlement to the upgrade was already used. You have no further right >to upgrade.... > >-Mike >

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

disk equals license

by thedm＠sunflower.com

I Must dissagree. The person who willfully sell's the product and surrenders the original's to you has transferred the license. It is the original purchaser who is wrong. He has obligated himself at that point to remove the software from his machine, or he shouldn't have sold the license in the firstplace. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Allison <mallison(a)konnections.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, February 13, 1998 12:24 AM Subject: Re: disk equals license >Uncle Roger wrote: >> Here's a question... Let's say my friend, who has a legal copy of xyz >> software, buys the upgrade version of xyz 2.0. He installs it, it checks >> for the previous version, and all is right with the world. He then gives >> me his old xyz 1.0 disks. I install it, purchase the upgrade, etc. >> >> Who (if anyone) is wrong? >> >> Now, let's say, we've both upgraded, and I give him back his original >> disks. Am I now a pirate? Was I a pirate before? Or was he the pirate >> before? > >You're wrong (in this case) You stole the upgrade from the company >because you didn't have the right to the upgrade. Then you stole the >upgrade. You now have a free copy running on your machine. > >You didn't pay for the original disks (not a crime) but the SINGLE >entitlement to the upgrade was already used. You have no further right >to upgrade.... > >-Mike >

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Disk problems/questions.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The reason for the quotes around "no problem" is that some people have <wrongly assumed you can format 360K disks in a 1.2 MB drive and just use <them in a 360K drive. This is only true if the disk being formated has n That is a big no-no. The 1.2m drives have a write head that is have the width and if not properly configured the wrong write current for 360k media(1.2m media is different magnetically). Also that narrower head produces a much lower read signal on a 360k drive with more errors. Scandisk works excellent for me here even on my Leading Edge XT. It's something your doing not scandisk. Allison

28 years, 2 months

5
6
0 0

Real hackers

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:06 PM 2/12/98 -0600, you wrote: >Speaking whihc, has anyone else ever read Heinlein's book (whose name I've >forgotten) about the inventor whose partners steal everything and freeze Okay, a little webbery (www.amazon.com) and the title is, <tada> _The Door Into Summer_. (So named, because the protagonist's cat was always looking for a door that opened into summer during the winter, but of course, so are we all...) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Apricot F1 - help, please!

by jolminkh＠c2.telstra-mm.net.au

This web site is probably only relevant to the PC Apricots. There is info on older stuff like the F10 at: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4462/apricot.html -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Davie <adavie(a)mad.scientist.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, 13 February 1998 17:42 Subject: Re: Apricot F1 - help, please! >A lot of scouting around (www.apricot.com.uk is no longer active) dug up the >following, which is particularly useful - in particular, anydisk.zip looks >teriffic!! > >http://www.apricot.co.uk/ftp/bbs/atsbbs/allfiles.htm > >Cheers >Andrew > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Friday, February 13, 1998 1:50 PM >Subject: Re: Apricot F1 - help, please! > > >>> >>> Amazingly enough, there is a ton (relatively) of F1 stuff on Apricot's UK >>> web site file library... >> >>Do you happen to have the URL for that ? >> >>ADVthanksANCE >> >>> >>> Kai >> >>-tony >> >> >

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Apricot F1 - help, please!

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

A lot of scouting around (www.apricot.com.uk is no longer active) dug up the following, which is particularly useful - in particular, anydisk.zip looks teriffic!! http://www.apricot.co.uk/ftp/bbs/atsbbs/allfiles.htm Cheers Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, February 13, 1998 1:50 PM Subject: Re: Apricot F1 - help, please! >> >> Amazingly enough, there is a ton (relatively) of F1 stuff on Apricot's UK >> web site file library... > >Do you happen to have the URL for that ? > >ADVthanksANCE > >> >> Kai > >-tony > >

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

disk equals license

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

>I'd say you have the right to purchase a "previous version 1st disk >required" upgrade of the product. You have the disks and the manuals, and >the imaginary license laying right next to it, that the previous owner of >the software threw away along with his right to upgrade. Here's a question... Let's say my friend, who has a legal copy of xyz software, buys the upgrade version of xyz 2.0. He installs it, it checks for the previous version, and all is right with the world. He then gives me his old xyz 1.0 disks. I install it, purchase the upgrade, etc. Who (if anyone) is wrong? Now, let's say, we've both upgraded, and I give him back his original disks. Am I now a pirate? Was I a pirate before? Or was he the pirate before? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Apple IIe Case

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

Hi, I got an apple IIe today and it came in a big padded case with a handle. It looks like an oversize suitcase and wheighs a ton. It has reinforced corners and edges. Inside are three compartments: the center one holds the Apple IIe and the sides hld the disk drive, floppies, docs and hard drive. Has anyone heard of the case or is it a custom one of a kind part? Any information would be appreciated. Fran?ois

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

digital group computers

by mtapley＠swri.edu

All, Figures I'd be out of town when this topic came up; I'd been waiting for a quiet moment to ask about them as well. I remember *lusting* for a digital group system just before dad bought a TRS-80 Model 1. (He was right, Tandy made systems for a lot longer than digital group did. :-() digital group chassis had a backplane bus which could accomodate processor cards carrying any of the 4 processor architectures mentioned by Sam (6502, 6800, 8080, and the super-powerful chip of the future Z-80). They offered a storage system using cassette tapes but recording to them digitally, not tone-encoded, which they called the phi-deck (I think). They sold a separate cabinet which would hold up to 4 of those, for a pretty large (for those days) total storage - over a megabyte, if I recall correctly. They sold a fair selection of software. I recall OASIS (sic?) as the name of one of the operating systems, and OPUS-1 and OPUS-2 as the names of two levels of a programming language (I think). I trashed my promotional literature describing all of this years and years ago, once we decided to go the TRS-80 route. Sigh. If anyone can amplify or correct any of this, or better yet has a working system, I'd love to hear more about it. Oh yes, there was a picture of one of the cabinets on the cover of Byte magazine just before they went out of business. Along with many other systems, suspended in space around a shattering crystal goblet with the Title "Breaking the Sound Barrier". The cover story was about computers with sound-generation capability. This would be maybe 1-2 years after the introduction of the Z-80, I'd guess, but don't remember better than that. More and better information, anyone? - Mark

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

disk equals license

by higginbo＠netpath.net

Technically, everyone is wrong. Now, if he gave you the disks/manuals/etc. and did the upgrade, he'd be wrong. If you didn't upgrade, you'd be in the clear. You were a pirate before, a pirate now, and will always be a pirate if you keep the upgrade installed and use it. I guess that leaves only one thing to say: Arrgh! Join the crew, matey! :P But if you got the disks from an entirely anonymous source, you wouldn't know the history behind the software, and you could use the software with a slightly less guilty conscience if you were so inclined. Everything is relative, no two cases are the same, and some leeway needs to be taken into consideration where software "piracy" is concerned. I think there's a pretty big grey area there, IMHO. At 09:06 PM 2/12/98 -0600, you wrote: >Here's a question... Let's say my friend, who has a legal copy of xyz >software, buys the upgrade version of xyz 2.0. He installs it, it checks >for the previous version, and all is right with the world. He then gives >me his old xyz 1.0 disks. I install it, purchase the upgrade, etc. > >Who (if anyone) is wrong? > >Now, let's say, we've both upgraded, and I give him back his original >disks. Am I now a pirate? Was I a pirate before? Or was he the pirate >before? -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

TK50 TAPES up for grabs in Portland, OR

by kyrrin2＠wizards.net

Please contact Mr. Grier directly if you're interested. Thanks! -=-=- <snip> -=-=- >Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:34:42 -0800 (PST) >From: "Aaron J. Grier" <agrier(a)poofy.goof.com> >To: port-vax(a)NetBSD.ORG, port-pmax(a)NetBSD.ORG >Subject: tk50s up for grabs in Portland, OR >Sender: port-vax-owner(a)NetBSD.ORG >Delivered-To: port-vax(a)NetBSD.ORG > > >in the basement of the Reed College library, there's a wall of tk50s which >are being tossed. (All have been run through a bulk-eraser...) > >If you can get 'um before the custodians come and trash them, they're >yours. (I've already got my fill.) Drop me an email, and I can meet you >to help carry them to your vehicle. > ><sigh> at least they'll be giving away the hardware to students... > >---- > Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier(a)poofy.goof.com > agrier(a)reed.edu | agrier(a)metro.grumblesmurf.net | ...!reed!vla!agrier > DECBEE65 0DEE3A0C 1ED7F54D 9E023CC4 and 0x0663D1A9 at a server near you. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

IBM PC-Junior

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

"some IBM PC Junior pieces (a monitor, printer, cpu, keyboard). last time i plugged it in, it worked" I would appreciate some info; I don't knnow anything about this one. Should I grab it, and if so, what is a fair price? Ie: is it scarce, do i want it. Andrew

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Antique Computers

by tpvesele＠qualitycomp.com

Hello, My company currently has several examples of antique computers, software, and various hardware pieces from the early eighties on. We tend to hold onto things in our warehouse and have accumulated boxes of stuff. Some items include: Apple Lisa (one 3.5 drive) unknown model Apple III (one of my personal favorites) Tons of Apple Hardware including II+, IIe, and GS carcases AE Hardware (remember the Ram Charger and Vulcan Hardrives?) Different Upright Macs including 128's, 512's, and the Plus We used to sell a bunch of this stuff in the late eighties, and most of these items were returned without packaging and such, so we could never get refunds for them. I would be interested in receiving an e-mail from someone to discuss the values of some of these items. Thanks -- Sincerely, Thomas Veselenak Product Development Manager Scantron Quality Computers Brighter Paths 20200 9 Mile Rd. St. Clair Shores MI, 48080 Phone: 800-777-3642 Ext. 712 Fax: 810-774-2698

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Apple IIe Case

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

>These were commonly advertised in the back of _BYTE_ and other computer >magazines in the late 70's and early 80's. Is there any indication of >a manufacturer or brand name for the case? > >Tim. Not that I can see. The panneling is made of wood (I got i off my trunk and can take a closer look), it looks like a home job (a well done one). Fran?ois.

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Apricot F1 - help, please!

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Amazingly enough, there is a ton (relatively) of F1 stuff on Apricot's UK web site file library... Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Duell [SMTP:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 1998 10:27 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Apricot F1 - help, please! > > > > > Having just obtained a 1984 Apricot F1 computer (and a lovely looking > > machine they are!) I find I can only get to the ROM boot stage. > Onscreen, I > > have Aprictot F1, a floppy icon, a chip icon, a hand pointing down, an > arrow > > I have an Apricot F1 Technical Manual here, mainly because it's the only > thing that I've found that's at all relevant to the Apricot PC which I > have. > > > pointing up, and thats about it. The arrow and hand are flashing. > > When I place disks in the drive, it spins for a bit and places an X and > a > > number on the screen. Numbers I've seen are 4, 8 and 99. So... any > proud > > OK, here's the error table from Appendix A of the manual : > > Boot ROM Error codes : > 20 ROM checksum test > 22 SIO register test > 25 RAM test > 28 Floppy Controller test > 29 CTC clock chip test > 33 Clock interrupt test > 35 Drive 0 test (can it step correctly?) > > Disk Error codes : > 2 Drive not ready, or disk removed during boot > 4 CRC error, corrupt sector > 6 Seek Error, unformatted or corrupt disk > 7 Bad media, corrupt media block > 8 Sector not found, unformatted or corrupt disk, bad load address in label > 11 bad read, corrupt data field on disk > 12 disk failure, disk hardware or media fault > 99 Non-system disk. Not a valid boot disk > > I assume you are using an Apricot boot disk. This machine, while based on > the 8086 and running MS-DOS, is certainly not a PC-clone. According to > the manual, this machine uses double-sided 80 track 720K disks (my, > older, machine uses single-sided disks). > > I don't know if boot disks for other Apricot machines will work. The > hardware is somewhat different (the F1 doesn't have the 8089 'I/O > coprocessor' (a fancy DMA chip) that's fitted on the PC). > > If you are using an Apricot boot disk, I'd firstly try a different one, > and then suspect disk drive or disk controller problems. The Apricot uses > a Western Digital 2797 disk controller. There's a few tweakers associated > with this chip as well. > > > Any help appreciated. > > Cheers > > Andrew > > > > > > -tony

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Altair 8800b + drive alignment

by wts＠exo.com

I also need alignment for a drive on my 8800b. I have the documentation and procedures plus the MITS program to step to a specific track. In addition to an oscilloscope, one tool needed for alignment is a hammer! The biggest problem will be finding an alignment diskette. The Pertec drives are 32-hard-sectored eight-inch. Most eight-inch drives are soft-sectored. Assuming your drives are one drive per case, they are probably a FD410 with a DC motor. If your drives are two drives per case, they are probably FD511s with a AC motor. Both drives can read the same diskettes. I also have a supply of blank diskettes. I would appreciate any suggestions on locating an alignment diskette. I would also like to hear from anyone with working drives. I would like backup and add to my MITS software collection. Tom Sanderson wts(a)exo.com http://exo.com/~wts/wts10005.HTM Virtual Altair Museum To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subject: Altair 8800b + drive alignment From: "Andrew Davie" <adavie(a)mad.scientist.com Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 00:13:10 +1100 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu I recently purchased an Altair 8800b from the original owner. He told me that last he used it (1984?), he was having trouble reading from the disk drive, and he was sure that it needed alignment. Apparently an alignment disk is required. I suspect an oscilloscope as well. I have two questions; 1) Can someone explain the process of aligning a disk drive, what is out of whack, and how tricky it is for a rank electronics amateur like myself 2) Where can I obtain an alignment disk, if required. Oh, I forgot to mention, the drive is an 8", the Altair model that has the same basic case and look of the Altair itself. This repair is one of the (I suspect) many that will be required to bring the Altair back to life. I've managed to get it (almost) firing up during the self-test stage, but one of the address lines doesn't behave (the light doesn't come on on A2 when I flick the switch that should light all of them, yet the light is operational at other stages). I'll get to that one later. Looks like a long, slow process. But worth it, no? Cheers Andrew

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

disk equals license

by manney＠nwohio.com

> AutoDesk requires you to trade the original disks from the previous > version at the dealer to order the upgrade. Not any more . I have a customer who has her old disks. >

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Possible source for parts

by kyrrin2＠wizards.net

I used to feel very antagonistic towards recyclers, since I saw them as greedy sharks that would cheerfully smash any type of electronic equipment or component, no matter how potentially useful, just for a few cents worth of gold. While I don't doubt that there are some who are like that, it strikes me that they're likely only out there to make a living like the rest of us. With that in mind, I think establishing positive relationships are much more constructive. I've attached a post from a recycler. He may or may not be willing to sell useful and undamaged parts as well. Those who are interested, please contact him directly. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:53:48 -0500, in misc.industry.electronics.marketplace you wrote: >>Path: Supernews70!Supernews73!supernews.com!howland.erols.net!news-feed1.tiac.net!posterchild2!news(a)tiac.net >>From: "Jim Sciuto" <goldtek(a)juno.com> >>Newsgroups: alt.electronics,alt.electronics.manufacture.circuitboard,aus.electronics,comp.sci.electronics,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,japan.handmade.electronics,misc.industry.electronics.marketplace >>Subject: Millions in Gold From Old Computer Equipment >>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:53:48 -0500 >>Organization: Goldtek >>Lines: 57 >>Message-ID: <6bt5cb$3ht(a)news-central.tiac.net> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: p16.ts3.danve.ma.tiac.com >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: multipart/alternative; >> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD366E.5E1CF360" >>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 >>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 >>Xref: Supernews70 alt.electronics.manufacture.circuitboard:2371 aus.electronics:9618 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips:202541 japan.handmade.electronics:133 misc.industry.electronics.marketplace:11083 >> >>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >> >>------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD366E.5E1CF360 >>Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset="iso-8859-1" >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> >> >> >>Learn to recycle gold. Old circuit boards, IC Chips, jewelry, etc.. can = >>be recycled and sold again. I will buy them. If you would like more = >>information visit my web site.=20 >> >>http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm >> >>Thanks, >> >>Jim=20 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz<ards> d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

2026

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

test-drb