Yes, I'm back on JPS Internet! So far, so good. Still looking for a
replacement power supply OR maintenance print sets (read: schematics) for a
VaxSERVER 3100 (NOT A VAXSTATION -- VAXServer -- there is a difference) so
I can fix the power supply. Other than that, doing pretty good.
'The Traveling Technoid' will also be moving this month to its new home.
There may be a few days where it is inaccessible. I'll post the new
location here and on Infoseek.
Caveat emptor!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
Can someone educate me as to how the 8800, the 8800A
and the 8800B differ?
I would really like to know about all the differences
in the three.
Thanks very much,
BOB
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Here's my contribution. I must confess to not having read all the
previous ones - traffic on the list has been somewhat high and my boss
has been making noises about my spending so much time reading it :-( I
suppose I'll have to get TCP/IP on my IBM 6150 ...
My name is Philip Belben and I'm an electrical engineer by trade. I
work for PowerGen, one of the electricity generating companies formed
when the UK split up its electricity industry in 1990. I'm 30 years old
(31 next week) and still single. I live alone in a 3-bedroom house full
of computers and other electronic junk, located at Coalville, England.
My introduction to computers was when my school got a Commodore PET in
1979. Suitable pestering of my parents meant that I received a
secondhand, 8K PET for my 13th birthday in 1980. I then caught the
computing bug - I forced the school to let me take exams in computer
science even though they had no-one to teach it.
After leaving school at 18 I did a year with IBM (Marketing - UGH!)
before going to university.
At university in 1987 I met Tony Duell, who had just founded the P850
User Group to preserve old computers. I caught the collecting bug at
about that time, and I now have around 60 of the things.
Old computers is just one hobby among many, though. I also write music;
I play the organ at my local church (yes I am a Christian), and also
sing and play Piano and Bassoon; I have recently taken up photography.
I would add that my computers aren't the only thing that's old - my
camera is a Yashicaflex 635 (late 1960s?) that I bought for 6 UK pounds
(just under $10) at a charity auction. My car is a 1971 Marcos Mantis -
a British kit car of which about 32 were made and 14 are believed to
survive - which I bought two years ago because I wanted something
sportier than my 1965 Ford Anglia (I shall always regret getting rid of
the Anglia). I also have a 1948 Fordson (= UK brand name for Ford
commercial vehicles until 1950s) truck, useful for carting computers
around. When I get the truck back on the road, I intend to join the
Classic Computer Rescue Squad.
Since this is not strictly on topic, I'd better not say any more!
Philip.
<I have a three board set of Q-bus cards plus the boot ROM for a uVAX II,
<dated from 1987, which supposedly turns a VAX server into a workstation f
<DECWindows. I think it was called the GPX II kit? Anyway, the boards wo
<and I have the keyboard, dove bar mouse and cable, but no monitor. I
<believe this board set could drive several types of workstation monitors
<and was programmed for monitor type thru some of the wires in the kbd/mou
I have no clue on the rom as the microvax-II already could run decwindows.
DECwindows is a device and services under VMS. I would not mess with that
rom unless you fully identfy it and its use.
The monitors conformed to the boards not the other way round the cable
carried keyboard data mouse and RGB video for the monitor.
monitors were vr260, 290, 320.
<too? Any specs on it? Will it work in a VAX 3600?
Yes.
<Also, what versions of VMS support the GPX board? Is it still current (V
<I have a VMS 5.5 set of tapes that came with the uVAX, from the old days
<when the VMS license stayed with the CPU and DEC didn't hit you up for
<license transfers.
Most all from v4.2 and later. V5.5 would work well. FYI there is a free
license available for hobby use to US decus members.
Allison
<Can someone educate me as to how the 8800, the 8800A
<and the 8800B differ?
<I would really like to know about all the differences
<in the three.
All three are 8080 and s100.
The 8800 and 8800a are esentially the same save for the A has most
of mods and improvements designed in. The number of mods are in the
dozens but include a powersupply large enough to be useful.
The 8800b is a radically redesigned front panel using proms and more
sequential logic rather that the flaky oneshots used in the earlier
version. There was a front pannel less version with a turnkey boot.
Track down the docs as it's far more to it than this outline.
Allison
On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote:
> as the newest addition - a Vector 3 made by Vector Graphics Inc of California
> (I'm guessing by the 213 area code on the label). I also have older Tektronix
Russ, the Vector 3 was manufactured in Santa Barbara, California. Vector
Graphics is an interesting company, in that it was started by two
housewives in the late 70s. One of the ladies was Lore Harp. I forget
the name of the other.
I have two Vector 1's. There was also, of course, a Vector 2.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
FYI
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 05:26:24 -0500
From: shewless(a)bestweb.net
To: danjo(a)xnet.com
Subject: Wanting to sell...
I am wanting to sell a Color Computer 2. I have the basic unit, books to
it, the cassette player, the 5 1/4 floppy drive, the dot matrix printer and
all cables in great conditon. Please email me if you or anyone you know
would like to purchase it. Thanks, Ron Roberts
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
BC
<IIRC the Z-80 stacks the PC after the it's been incremented. So it fills
Correct, been looking at to much C code lately.
<were only 7 bits of video RAM on that machine, so 00 displayed as 40 =
<'@'). That was a standard diagnostic test I think.
Yes!
Allison
I just acquired (5 minutes ago) a DEC TU80 open reel tape drive, but no
docs. There is a 3rd party Q-bus card (Distributed Logic Corp) that came
with it, cables seem to line up. Does anyone know anything about this tape
drive, is it a 6250 bpi drive, can it work in a MicroVAX II or VAX 3600
Q-Bus, and is it supported under VMS 5,6, or 7? Is there some kind of SCSI
adapter so I could connect it to an NT machine or an Alpha?
A longtime customer just showed up at my door with it in his pickup, asked
if I wanted it. It's clean and he says it was pulled from a running system,
but no details. It's in a nice DEC rack, like the kind VAX 3600s came in.
Is it treasure or trash?
Jack Peacock
There's a chart at the bottom of the page at:
http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/MITSAltair8800.htm
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Wood [SMTP:altair8800@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 6:13 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Altair 8800, 8800A, 8800B??
>
> Can someone educate me as to how the 8800, the 8800A
> and the 8800B differ?
> I would really like to know about all the differences
> in the three.
>
> Thanks very much,
>
> BOB
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I have a three board set of Q-bus cards plus the boot ROM for a uVAX II, all
dated from 1987, which supposedly turns a VAX server into a workstation for
DECWindows. I think it was called the GPX II kit? Anyway, the boards work,
and I have the keyboard, dove bar mouse and cable, but no monitor. I
believe this board set could drive several types of workstation monitors,
and was programmed for monitor type thru some of the wires in the kbd/mouse
cable. Does anyone know if it can run some PC type monitor? VGA, MDA, CGA,
multisynch VGA? I don't have any info on the connector pinouts, or the
types of monitors it supports. Is it mono only or does it support color
too? Any specs on it? Will it work in a VAX 3600?
Also, what versions of VMS support the GPX board? Is it still current (V7)?
I have a VMS 5.5 set of tapes that came with the uVAX, from the old days
when the VMS license stayed with the CPU and DEC didn't hit you up for
license transfers.
Thanx for any info you might have, Jack Peacock
Hi Sam,
Is this the circa 1980 Dos-ish machine from Canada? I'd be interested....is
it yours? I live just north of Orange County (Glendora) and I could go pick
it up.
Thanks,
Aaron
BTW, no pressure on that ATR8000, but did you trade it away? I'm only
asking again because there was a rumour of one on ebay that I'll bid on if
so....
At 09:34 AM 3/4/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Does anyone in Orange County, California want a Victor 9000?
>
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer,
Jackass
>
> Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
>
>
<> That's a very good point. A TI-85 is a 6 MHz Z80,
I wonder what the odds of finding a ti-85 are and cost? They are hackable
>from what I gather.
Allison
From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
>> I just acquired (5 minutes ago) a DEC TU80 open reel tape drive, but no
>> docs. There is a 3rd party Q-bus card (Distributed Logic Corp) that came
>> with it, cables seem to line up. Does anyone know anything about this
tape
>> drive
>
>Sure - it's a rebadged CDC Keystone, Pertec formatted interface.
Is that the same interface as a TS05? I have a TSV05 Q-bus controller, same
dual 50 pin cables.
>>, can it work in a MicroVAX II or VAX 3600
>> Q-Bus
>
>Sure. Is the card a DQ132?
It's a DQ152, rev A, dual wide Q-bus card, with 2 50 pin ribbon connectors.
It uses an 8097 controller CPU (part of the MCS-96 family if I recall
correctly), 14.745Mhz xtal (an odd speed, something Pertec related?), a
couple gate arrays (Q-Bus and Pertec interfaces?), an EPROM, and a 2063 type
static RAM. Circuit board has a 1986 copyright date
>*Do not* plug the Dilog card into a Q-bus if the board number begins with
>DU. That would be a Bad Thing.
Customer doesn't have any Unibus machines, I thought of that
The board has one jumper block, I assume for the CSR address. It's a single
in-line 10 pin header, with pins 2 and 3 jumpered together. Might someone
have the settings for this? If not I'll try the VMS newsgroup.
Does anyone have an extra ISA or MCA SCSI card? I have a pair of
80MB macintosh hard drives that I want to use...
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
They are marked 2102A
Indeed... 8212
Eproms or PROMS? They're marked C1702A
Now is a good time to ask the list for advice on what to do BEFORE applying
any power to this machine. I consider this one quite historical, and don't
want to any damage. What are the things I should check?
Cheers
A
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, March 05, 1998 4:08 AM
Subject: Re: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ...
>> Datanumerics DL8A web page...
>> http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/datanumerics.html
>
>Nice pictures. Are those white ceramic 2101's or 2102's in the back of
>the board? Are the 24-pin chips by the ribbon cable connectors Intel
>8212's, by any chance? And it's hard to tell from the pictures, but
>are the big chips near the RAM banks EPROM's or PROM's?
>
>A few people have remarked at the similarity of the front panel to the
>Altair, but that's hardly surprising: they're both just straightforward
>displays of the status signals available on the 8080A...
>
>Tim.
>
<garbage confined to the last two lines of the screen? (I'll have to go
<dig up my close-up screen shots photos). If so, this could mean a dead
<video ROM.
That would also be least likely as the device used is a mask programmed
component.
Sounds more like the cpu is starting up and then crashing either due to
soft bits in rom or more likely some dead ram(or the bus logic that)
connects the cpu to the ram and rom.
FYI: if the VDM1 (display board) is not accessed by the cpu or the cpu
runs amuck it's contents will be trash. If the cpu is getting nothing
or starts executing from a location where there is no memory the cpu
stacks itself to death and fills the screen (VDM1 is memory mapped).
The reason is an open bus (no memory addressed at all) = RST7 instruction
0ffh and it does a jump to 38h and starts executing from there and if
nothing answeres at that address the same thing repeats itself, each cycle
the return address is put on the stack and it fills memory with 00h, 38h.
Allison
On 1998-03-03 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
:The PMOS one needs somewhat strange supplies (+5V and -7V from
:memory). I can probably find more data if you need it. I certainly
:have the SC/MP instruction set, etc.
we'd like that, please...
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
From: Andrew Davie <adavie(a)mad.scientist.com>
>They are marked 2102A
>Indeed... 8212
>Eproms or PROMS? They're marked C1702A
>
>Now is a good time to ask the list for advice on what to do BEFORE applying
>any power to this machine. I consider this one quite historical, and don't
>want to any damage. What are the things I should check?
>
>Cheers
>A
>
2102s are 1Kbit x 1 static RAMS, the memory of choice in the 70's, power
hungry but easy to design with. An Intel 8212 is an 8 bit latch (should be
a 24 pin DIP), commonly used on 8080 boards to latch some control signals.
1702s are 256 x 8 (2Kbit) EPROMs, a real pain to program, that's probably
where your boot code is.
Jack Peacock
Thanks for the the glimmer of hope. Count me in for an order. Any
assistance Lee can offer would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to get
this Sol up and running in as original condition as possible.
Marty Mintzell
email: marty(a)itgonline.com
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 3/4/98 4:40 PM
At 13:14 3/4/98 -0500, Marty wrote:
> Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying
> the > prompt....Anyway, if roms go wrong
> is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)?
Not at present, but Lee Felsenstein and I keep talking about burning some
new ones if we find a fab that would do a short enough run. Lee says
they'd be less than $50 each.
__________________________________________
Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
http://www.chac.org/index.html
Computer History Association of California
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From: Kip Crosby <engine(a)chac.org>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
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Thanks for the response Jim. I'll check this out tonight and email
results tomorrow morning. I don't recall a pattern but will look for
that tonight.
Marty
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 3/4/98 2:56 PM
On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote:
> Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying
> the > prompt (I'll have to fire this up tonight to double-check as I
> haven't had at this machine for a few days). Anyway, if roms go wrong
> is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)?
Hmmm... gets me to thinking. Is there any pattern to this "garbage"?
(same characters repeated, etc.) The character display is read directly
out of the 1k of video ram (term used VERY loosely) in the system (static
ram, no refresh issues), and a bad RAM chip or dirty socket can often show
up like this.
This does assume that you are actually getting the SOLOS prompt (">"). If
what you are seeing on the display is a repeating pattern of a graphic and
a 9 (think that is close) which seems to flicker a bit, this would
indicate a problem with the 'Personality Module' or surrounding circuitry.
(ROM bad/missing, module bad/missing, etc...)
Also, is the image otherwise stable? (not rolling and such) If so, then
the bulk of the video sub-system is more or less ok.
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
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From: James Willing <jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.131410.1767.85773(a)smtp.itgonline.com>
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While my Telebit modem issue was resolved by several nice
classiccomp mail list subscribers, here is the responce I recieved
>from the original manufacturers (actually, the new owners of the
original manufacturers). I have to say, here's how to build brand
loyalty....
--jmg
------- Start of forwarded message -------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 18:15:23 +0100
From: Christoph Meyer <cerm(a)router.de>
To: maynard(a)jmg.com
Subject: Re: Telebit Zoom FAXModem
Sorry,
we don't support Telebit equipment any longer.
cerm
- --
TLK Kommunikationssysteme GmbH (http://www.router.de)
Christoph Meyer (mailto:cerm@router.de)
Geiststr. 68
48151 Muenster
Germany
Tel: +251/97 256 70
Fax: +251/97 256 79
------- End of forwarded message -------
Damn!
Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying
the > prompt (I'll have to fire this up tonight to double-check as I
haven't had at this machine for a few days). Anyway, if roms go wrong
is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)?
Marty
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 3/4/98 12:39 PM
On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote:
> I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but
> there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid
> of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this
> package) have failed thus far.
This sounds suspiciously similar to what the screen looked like when
Felsenstein & Marsh fired up the Sol-20 prototype at VCF 1.0. Is the
garbage confined to the last two lines of the screen? (I'll have to go
dig up my close-up screen shots photos). If so, this could mean a dead
video ROM.
Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer,
Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
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From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.084954.1767.85660(a)smtp.itgonline.com>
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-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
>It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they
>marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not
>very common over here.
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>
The Sorcerer was marketed in Australia by a nationwide group called "Dick
Smith Electronics" which was a pioneer in the home computer market here in
many ways. They also sold a TRS80 Model 1 clone called "Dick Smith System
80", the "Dick Smith VZ300" (and others in its family I think), and the
"Dick Smith Wizard". The latter is a strange machine in which the two
paddles, when placed in their slots in the console, make up the two halves
of a QWERTY membrane keyboard, with games providing slide-on overlays for
the paddles such that the game controls activate the membrane keys
underneath. I am not sure if these (other than the Sorcerer) were just
re-badged models from overseas, or commisioned by "tricky dick" (he
advertised a lot, became very rich, then became a sort of Richard Branson
adventurer and philanthropist, and he is actually now head of our civil
aviation authority, and some now want him as the first President of
Australia if we ever become a republic!)
I have here a data sheet for the Sorcerer from 1979 or 1980 in which the 8K
machine cost $A1295 and the 16K cost $1395. The only extras advertised then
were a cassette recorder for $A35 and the monitor for $A150.
>from Brisbane, Australia
Phil Guerney
Here's a stretch. If anybody has a Helios II disk drive available for
sale or trade I'd be eternally grateful. If Gary has any spare Persci
drives I would be grateful to get one of those also. I have recently
acquired a Sol-20 and have a NorthStar controller with a 5 1/4" floppy
drive (which I haven't got up and running yet).
I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but
there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid
of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this
package) have failed thus far.
Thanks for any help or hints-
Marty Mintzell
email: marty(a)itgonline.com
<
< I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but
< there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid
< of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this
< package) have failed thus far.
Before you mess with CPM and disks get the SOL running! The screen of
garbage is either a broken VDM-1 (video card) or the CPU is out to lunch
do to a memory problem or other system fault.
Pull the disk controller out and get to the minimum system and trouble
shoot from there.
Also the Native os for the northstar controller is NS*dos not cp/m it
is possible that the version of cpm can be configured for the NS*
controller but not the terminal IO used in the SOL so it would boot
and do nothing.
FYI: the most commonly replaced part is the CPU as it's is always
socketed. The least often failed part is the CPU!
If I were nearby I'd offer to help.
Allison
Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote:
> However they are compatable at the DOS level.
Be careful how you use those words. I'd say that about the HP 110 and
150. A program written using MS-DOS services only (vs. direct
hardware access or BIOS services) stands a good chance of running
across both, as well as the IBM PC.
-Frank McConnell
>80", the "Dick Smith VZ300" (and others in its family I think), and the
>"Dick Smith Wizard". The latter is a strange machine in which the two
>paddles, when placed in their slots in the console, make up the two halves
>of a QWERTY membrane keyboard, with games providing slide-on overlays for
>the paddles such that the game controls activate the membrane keys
>underneath
I have a page up for the Dick Smith Wizzard. It is, in fact, a
Creativision - and can be seen at the following URL...
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/creativision.html
My machine has the optional keyboard (improves the feel from dreadful to
absolutely dreadful but in 3d instead of 2d), and the docked casette module.
Cheers
A
PS: Is it just me, or are others getting mail failure notifications when
sending to the list?
Great information, thanks Scott, and thanks as well to Allison. I'll
check the archives for the keyboard mail.
Marty Mintzell
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 3/4/98 11:19 AM
On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote:
> I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but
> there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid
> of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this
> package) have failed thus far.
Is the keyboard working properly? The Sol-20 keyboard is a capacitive
unit in which pressing a key pushes the insulated side of a piece of
one-size metallized Mylar film against plates on the printed circuit
board, changing the capacitance. These pieces of film are attached to the
key mechanism with foam. Over the course of time, this foam
disintegrates, the metal backing mysteriously disappears from the film,
and pieces become detached from the keys and rattle around inside the
keyboard wreaking havoc.
If you are having problems with the keyboard (or the garbage on your
screen looks like it could be the result of stuck keys), you may want to
check for this problem. The PC board is held to the keyboard assembly
with screws and is easily removed. After removing the keyboard assembly,
you can test the machine by using parts salvaged from another capacitive
keyboard (or even a piece of foil held behind thin plastic) to complete
the "key capacitors". There are instructions somewhere on the classiccmp
archive for rebuilding a Sol-20 keyboard using a PC-clone (Keytronics?)
capacitive keyboard as a donor. It's on my relatively long list of things
to do.
--
Scott Ware ware(a)xtal.pharm.nwu.edu
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From: Scott Ware <ware(a)xtal.pharm.nwu.edu>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
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Thanks Allison. As the VDM-1 is built-in I obviously can't pull it but
will check for a bad trace etc.
Marty
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 3/4/98 9:53 AM
<
< I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but
< there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid
< of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this
< package) have failed thus far.
Before you mess with CPM and disks get the SOL running! The screen of
garbage is either a broken VDM-1 (video card) or the CPU is out to lunch
do to a memory problem or other system fault.
Pull the disk controller out and get to the minimum system and trouble
shoot from there.
Also the Native os for the northstar controller is NS*dos not cp/m it
is possible that the version of cpm can be configured for the NS*
controller but not the terminal IO used in the SOL so it would boot
and do nothing.
FYI: the most commonly replaced part is the CPU as it's is always
socketed. The least often failed part is the CPU!
If I were nearby I'd offer to help.
Allison
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From: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
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Could I get a copy of the tape or a transcription?
Marty Mintzell
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Processor Technology Sol-20
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 3/3/98 9:51 PM
At 18:31 3/3/98 -0800, Marvin wrote:
>Sam still has the audio masters for the original Vintage Computer Fair where
>Lee Felsenstein and (drawing a blank), the former president of Processor
>Technology
Bob Marsh.
>I don't recall the date they went out of
>business (1981???)
May 14, 1979.
__________________________________________
Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
http://www.chac.org/index.html
Computer History Association of California
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From: Kip Crosby <engine(a)chac.org>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Processor Technology Sol-20
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Does anyone in Orange County, California want a Victor 9000?
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
Is a TI-8x or 92 a calculator or computer? I mean, a TI-92 uses a
68000 processor, has some 128k ram, and a full (if not full-sized)
keyboard. A friend of mine is making a multitasking shell for it.
>
>At 23:10 3/3/98 GMT, you wrote:
>>(now someone's going to turn round and tell us that the pointy-haired
>>bosses in hp hack on their hp48s during meetings, and wear their hair
>>that way because they don't know where to find a decent hairdresser.
>
>Pointy-haired bosses do NOT carry HP48's. They carry TI Math Explorers
>that they pinch off the carpet of their eighth-grader's bedroom, and
don't
>know how to use. The Math Explorer was sitting forlorn on the kid's
carpet
>because the kid saved up, bought a second-hand TI-85, and is sitting in
the
>backyard smoking a joint and hacking ZSHELL on the TI.
>
>__________________________________________
>Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
> http://www.chac.org/index.html
>Computer History Association of California
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
It arrived 10 minutes ago.
I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it.
Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it.
Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!")
Cheers
A
Datanumerics DL8A web page...
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/datanumerics.html
Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor
Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of
business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've
been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were
actuated by a voice coil and while they had an extremely fast access
time (for the day) they were unrelible. I'd appreciate any
information.
Thanks-
Marty Mintzell
<I could see a use for that... By making a NanoPC (?) small enough, I cou
<a console for my uVAX 2000 that I could tape (or something?) to the top o
<machine - Then I'd truly have a portable VAX!
<Maybe if I do go make creative use of batteries... Ehehe... VAX LUGGABL
<(That'd be fun for the trips to Indy! They could be driving away, and I
<hack VAX in the backseat..)
<-------
Seems the hard way to go. Try this.
Remove the RD5x and replace with two 3.5" mfm drives. Install one scsi
drive (for more space). remove power supply replace with one that
provides +12/-12/+5 from a 12vdc source. Use a laptop for terminal.
An alternate to replacing the power supply is use 12vdc to 120ac(240w)
power converter.
An alternate replacement for the PC (somewhat retro too) is to find one of
the various terminal boards sold in the early to mid 80s, add a keyboard
and a 12v monitor, tada a terminal. Most of those boards were
small (5x9" or smaller).
If your are running an OS that can use the vs2k console... use lk201 and
a small monochrome monitor that can hack the scan rates.
most of the 3100 series is in the same power needs class and could easily
be put on the road as well.
Also the qbus vaxen could be hacked for mobile use (there was a version of
the ba213/4 box that used DC power!).
Vax on the roll. Your would not be the first, the YACHT America
(Americas cup racing) back around 88 or so had a vax on board!
Allison
Now, it's not working again. Sorry, this discussion seems to be pretty one-sided. ;-)
Sorry,
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: Hotze <photze(a)batelco.com.bh>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: List not working?
Ok, so the list is working. Sorry.... and remember, we're trained proffesionals. Don't try this at M$.
-----Original Message-----
From: Hotze <photze(a)batelco.com.bh>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 4:57 PM
Subject: List not working?
Hi. I recieve posts from ClassicCmp, but when I try to send it, I get a "mailbag full" error...
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
(Please contact me at photze(a)batelco.com.bh if you have more info)
Ok, so the list is working. Sorry.... and remember, we're trained proffesionals. Don't try this at M$.
-----Original Message-----
From: Hotze <photze(a)batelco.com.bh>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 4:57 PM
Subject: List not working?
Hi. I recieve posts from ClassicCmp, but when I try to send it, I get a "mailbag full" error...
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
(Please contact me at photze(a)batelco.com.bh if you have more info)
>Nice but what would CP/M (rememberthis is 8080/z80) do with 500mb? The
>whole of multimple archives fits on a single CDrom! CP/M systems did not
>suffer code bloat so smaller devices tend t fill very slowly. Something
>under 100mb is more resonable for my project.
Don't ask me!!! I didn't know waht CP/M was until a week ago. Funny story.
I've looked all over the Internet for stuff on my II+, but found II, IIc,
IIe, etc. stuff instead. Then, I look at my school library, and I find a
84/85 edition of a kind of "computer encyclopedia", and a book called "Apple
II User's Guide", which only covers the ][ and the ][+.
>????? What are they and approximate cost.
For the 80 MB version, it's soupossed to cost around $80. Be warned, these
are 1" chips that are soupossed to contain Windows 95/98 on them (with room
for expansion, etc.) It's like a hard disk on a chip. I've only heard
about them. The advantage is relatively low cost, but definately lower
power consumption and less space. I'm trying to build a machine myself.
Right now, I'm into hardware, software'll come later. I'm thinking an ELKS
machine, or such. Where the heck can I get hardware that isn't aimed for
10,000 units? Like 1 or 2? Using IDE, probably a 386/486 chip, and I'd
need graphics, etc. Can someone please help me?
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
Hi. I recieve posts from ClassicCmp, but when I try to send it, I get a "mailbag full" error...
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
(Please contact me at photze(a)batelco.com.bh if you have more info)
I'm trying to make a "semi-nano PC" myself...
><3.5"? That's a "standard" off-the-shelf IDE disk, isn't it? 2.5" is
><a standard off-the-shelf laptop IDE drive. 1.8" drives are also
>I'd rather 2.5 or smaller but a really cheap 3.5 is ok.
2.5" drives arn't hard to find. A while back, Data Probe
(http://www.dataprobeintl.com ; sales(a)dataprobeintl.com) had even 500MB
notebook drives for around $50 (used), they were 2.5". They weren't listed
on their website, you'd have to ask them...
And, I'd recommend the Kittyhawks. That, or there's soupossed to be a
re-writable ROM-like 1" square coming out, right now, they've got 20 and 40
MB versions,with 80MB coming soon...
>>The is at most a one up for myself(non commercial design).
Same here.
Ciao,
Tim D. Hotze
<(http://www.dataprobeintl.com ; sales(a)dataprobeintl.com) had even 500MB
<notebook drives for around $50 (used), they were 2.5". They weren't lis
Nice but what would CP/M (rememberthis is 8080/z80) do with 500mb? The
whole of multimple archives fits on a single CDrom! CP/M systems did not
suffer code bloat so smaller devices tend t fill very slowly. Something
under 100mb is more resonable for my project.
<And, I'd recommend the Kittyhawks. That, or there's soupossed to be a
<re-writable ROM-like 1" square coming out, right now, they've got 20 and
????? What are they and approximate cost.
Allison
-----Original Message-----
From: Eve Guerney
Oops, Eve is my daughter! I must learn to make sure the message gets posted
>from the correct account on this machine
I may as well take the chance and add some real demography info.
I'm new to actually collecting old micros, but I have thought about if for a
while! I have my original VIC-20, C64, Amiga500 and now also a beautiful
mint condition TRS80 Model II and an Apple ][+ and a one owner Atari 800. I
got a Coco1 and a CoCo2 this week, consoles only, but I can't get anything
on the TV from them yet so they may be just rubbish.
I'm a mid-40's scientist working in the minerals business in Brisbane,
Australia. I DREAMED of owning a Sorcerer more than anything else in the
world when a postgraduate student (graduate student to you North Americans)
in 1978, then in 1979 a PET would have done me. Money shortage kept me from
actually owning a micro until the VIC-20 dropped to $A299 here in 1982. I
joined the local Commodore Users Group and stayed with them through the C64
and the Amiga days, even becoming President of the group for two years
through the last days of Commodore while our membership finished its
shrinkage from over 1000 (in the late 1980's) to less than 50 now.
Now I am just learning the best ways of picking up and looking after these
marvellous machines. Any other Australians who want to make themselves known
to me are welcome.
>from Phil Guerney
Brisbane, Australia.
I should be more careful what I say.
It's not a clone of an 8800b. I have no idea about the 8800a.
A
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ...
>On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Andrew Davie wrote:
>
>> It arrived 10 minutes ago.
>> I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it.
>> Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it.
>> Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!")
>
>OK, I want it!! Very cool. It looks a lot like an Altair (from the pix,
>I saw a one-to-one correspondence to Altair toggles). According to Hans
>Pufal's list, it came out the same year as the Altair (1975):
> http://www.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/clist3.htm
>
>Any chance it is an Altair in sheep's clothing?
>
>-- Doug
>
>
OK... while we're on off topic, ;-) Is there any way that I could get my
hands on the individual componets for making a "nano PC", prefferably just a
small one?
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: Off-charter chatter: nano-PC's
>>On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote:
>>
>>> I just received some brochures from my local embedded PC supplier, and
>some
>>> of the miniaturization that's being done is incredible. There's a
>>> company in Germany called JUMPtec which sells a product called the
>>> DIMM-PC; it puts a 33 MHz 80386, 4 Mbytes of RAM, a bootable flash
>>> harddisk and an AMI BIOS, a real time clock, and interfaces for
>>> external IDE drives, floppy drives, printer, 2 COM ports, and keyboard
>>> all on a board that is only 68mm x 40mm (that's 1.57 x 2.68 inches.)
>>
>>Wow, a keyboard in that form factor is incredible :-) You're right, there
>>are lots of choices in the embedded space. The smallest full-blown PC
>>with built-in display and keyboard that I know of has gotta be the IBM
>>PC-110. For a size comparison of a normal laptop, a PC-110, and IBM's
>>(new?) credit-card computer, see:
>> http://www.kako.com/museum/ibm.html
>>
>>To get even further off-topic, has anybody here written 6805 wristapps for
>>their Timex/Microsoft DataLink watch? Try:
>> http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/7650/
>>
>>-- Doug
>>
>>
>
Re: Sorcerers down Under.
There was a strong user group base down here in the late 70s and early 80s.
I remember having a real hard time deciding between a Sorcerer and an Atari
800. I eventually chose the Atari, with no regrets. But, I seem to
remember the Sorcerer as being fairly common.
Not easy to find now, but a lot of us down under collectors seem to have one
or two (or three, but I won't tease too much).
Cheers
A
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: Demography?
>On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Lawrence Wilkinson wrote:
>
>> I'm a fairly recent arrival to this list. I'm 34, a New Zealander, and
>> I've lived in the UK for almost 4 years.
><...>
>>
>> I started doing various programming work on machines like TRS80 &
>> clones, Sorcerer, including quite a few BIOSes for CP/M, including one
> ^^^^^^^^
>It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they
>marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not
>very common over here.
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer,
Jackass
>
> Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
>
>
Here's the response from Jim Sciuto, "Gold Recovery Expert". A hint of
promise, I suppose.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 19:34:48 -0500
From: Qs <quiksand(a)tiac.net>
To: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
Subject: Re: Hello
I will visit your web page and keep you in mind, sometimes the historical
value of things do outweigh its scrap value.
Regards,
Jim Sciuto
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
To: quiksand(a)tiac.net <quiksand(a)tiac.net>
Cc: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, March 01, 1998 11:36 PM
Subject: Hello
>To: Jim Sciuto, "Gold Recovery Expert"
> http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm
>
>I invite you to take the time to discover the wonderful efforts a group
>of dedicated individuals around the globe are engaged in to preserve
>some of the historically significant vintage computer equipment that you
>may be scrapping for its precious metals. In some cases, the machines
>you are melting down have more historic value than any monetary value
>you may be extracting from their circuits.
>
>I realize this is how you make your living, but I think you will find
>the efforts of these computer preservations at least interesting, if not
>compelling.
>
>Any assistance you can afford us in preserving the more rare artifacts
>of our computer heritage that you come in contact with or possesion of
>would be much appreciated. I invite you to visit the Vintage Computer
>Festival web page:
>
>http://www.siconic.com/vcf
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Sam Ismail
>Vintage Technology Cooperative
>http://www.siconic.com/vcf
>
tony duell:
:>have a feeling that eventually all obsolete computer equipment in
:>britain will gravitate to chez duell...
:I wish.... There are still machines I am looking for - PDP's other
:than the 8 or the 11, a straight-8, more P800 series stuff, etc,
:etc,etc. Oh, and somewhere to put them :-)
well, the schematics for the pdp6 are available, so at a pinch you could
always rebuild one. :>
:> on the other hand, it makes the electronics more difficult, as
:>suddenly you have to design a pll that will reliably lock to
:>about 10 different data rates, rather than just one, not to
:>mention making sure the
:Not that hard. You design it as a synthesiser, of course. Probably
:not that much worse (and similar in design) to the multi-speed
:motor controller.
probably. in fact, it might even be easier, because you don't have to
worry about controlling anything physical. on the other hand, since
you'd need a speed regulator in the disk drive anyway (and iwrc they
tend to be plls) you might as well give that a range of frequencies to
chew on and keep the data transfer stuff simple.
there are arguments either way - about the only thing we would say,
though, is that software is cheaper than hardware in scrap terms, and
whereas commodore was already huge, woz was on a leguminous budget.
:> controller can handle it. to make it practical to decode in
:>software, the apple probably got it right - and let's face it,
:>certainly in later
:Being a hardware hacker, I've never liked the Apple approach to
:doing everything in software, alas...
ah, but we're a software hacker, so we just love it. :> besides, there's
a certain beauty in finding that you can do something with the bare
minimum of hardware.
:There were certainly non-compatible 386 machines - didn't Sequent
:make some? (multi-processor unix boxen..) No, I don't have one -
:yet!
yes, we believe so. there were other non-compatible 386 offerings too,
were there not - eg. sun 386s...? but then it's a lot easier to make a
non-compatible 386, given its somewhat multiplicitous architecture. just
ignore real mode in the design of the hardware and you're away...
protected mode on the 286, though, should have had more made of it. it
was a missed opportunity.
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
My demographics:
I'm 33 and from Sydney, Australia. I'm a Taswegian by birth, and my first
intro to computers was a gift of a 4 function calculator from my mother when
I was 10. That particular unit (a CASIO) had a problem dividing by 0 - it
tried to!! The display patiently counted from 0 up to... well I never saw
it stop before the batteries gave out. I guess thats what started my prime
interest in computers - the quirky and unusual.
Mixed with a dollop of nostalgia (it's not what it used to be), and you have
me today - a collector of just about anything that calculates and isn't too
big (we're renting). So, slide rules, mechanical calculators, handheld
electronic calculators and recently some of the early home micros and game
machines. That's my collecting field. Our house blows a fuse when I turn
on the dishwasher and the washing machine; there's just no way I'm going to
have a mainframe running here for anything over a couple of milliseconds.
I'm a programmer by nature - having earned my stripes on the console
machines of the mid to late 80s (Nintendo and Super Nintendo, Commodore 64,
etc). Mainly 6502 stuff. I'm now programming what we call Interactive
Multipath Movies - real time rendered 3D movies with which you can interact
and see story changes as you interact. Its quite neat, actually - I just
bought shares in our company.
Anyway, my other passion is lost information. I find the search for missing
information - the gathering together of widely dislocated pieces - somewhat
enjoyable. Why, just today I tracked down the original owner of my Exidy
Sorcerer. I've been known to track down the owner of a slide rule deposited
in a junk store some 20 years ago. He was rather surprised to hear from a
guy from Australia - and unfortunately thought I was a kook!
Well, maybe I am :)
I'm married to a lovely American lady, and we have two rugrats. The kids
just love circular slide rules and my little girl (3yo) begs me to let her
clean my calculators. Which, of course, I do.
I invite you all to visit my web sites, devoted to various parts of my
collecting interests...
Museum of Soviet Calculators (currently a Yahoo! and Netscape Cool LInk)
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html
Slide Rule Trading Post
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/
Weird Computing Machines
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/
I have various other sites, but not related to computing. I'm hoping,
eventually, to move back to Tasmania - the place I grew up and the place my
heart longs for. Of course, my computers and calculators will move with me.
I'm sure the wife and kids will come too :)
My collection consists of the following, and lots of widgets I forget...
Wang calculator (interesting)
Altair 8800b
Kaypro II
Exidy Sorcerers
OSI Challenger
Atari 800
Commodore C64
KIM-1
BBC
Creativision
Soviet Calculators (about a dozen)
HP calculators (nearly, but not quite, the whole set)
Slide rules
and the prize....
a Thatcher Calculator.
I welcome all emails, but warn that due to the large amount of email my
sites generate I'm sometimes less than quick to respond!
Cheers
A
adavie(a)mad.scientist.com
