- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Fw: new message

by katelists＠trouts.org

Hey! New message, please read <http://battersandco.com/itself.php?ezcip> katelists at trouts.org

10 years, 8 months

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Fw: new message

by katelists＠trouts.org

Hey! New message, please read <http://singdanceplaylearn.com/notice.php?d> katelists at trouts.org

10 years, 8 months

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Speaking of switches... Altair?

by tmfdmike＠gmail.com

I started playing with something I haven't touched in ages; my Altair 8800. So far so good... https://www.facebook.com/tmfdmike/videos/10207777256179225/?l=8958556876818… One thing: I really need three or four new switches to replace bent or broken ones: the lower ones with the large metal toggles for run/stop examine/deposit etc. Anyone got any or can suggest a source? Original preferred obviously, precise replica OK. I almost never play with S-100 era equipment so I'm pretty sketchy on Altairs! Thanks Mike http://www.corestore.org 'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother. Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame. For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

10 years, 8 months

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tool for installing pin in PCB extractors?

by spacewar＠gmail.com

What tool does one use to install the metal pin into a plastic PCB extractor, e.g., the Bivar CP-36 or Keystone 8642? I don't yet have any uninstalled extractors on hand, but I'm going to need some for a project. Looking at PCBs with extractors already installed has not made it obvious to me how to install them.

10 years, 8 months

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Oddball question: really small terminals

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

We used to used a TRS-80 model 100 as a terminal too. sometimes I would put a 50 ft cable on it and hook it to the hp2000 or the hp3000! Ed#

10 years, 8 months

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Ping!

by oscar.vermeulen＠hotmail.com

Jorg, >> I forgot to ask for your private email on VCFB, so I use this public channel. Ah -- beg your pardon! >>Can you sell me a PiDP8, so I can port my Blinkenlight Api Server to the >> platform of the upcoming 11/70? Absolutely not. That would be ethically impossible. I can, however, offer you a free PiDP if you can take care of the shipping cost :) >> I'd like to have it as preassembled as possible, 'cause my schedule is very tight. I'll send you the comfy kit, meaning no fussing with the switch bar! Shipping cost is CHF 24/EUR21, just paypal to oscar.vermeulen at hotmail.com and I'll send it to you. But - before you do, consider that I'm currently working on a new version of the PiDP with (hopefully) nice replica 8/I switches. So if you're not too much in a hurry, you may want to wait two months and get the cosmetic upgrade! >> BTW, my photos of VCFB are here: ... you remember me shooting into your face while the street car rumbled behind your back? Cool! Thanks for the pictures link :) Kind regards, Oscar.

10 years, 8 months

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The Internet & our hobby

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Johnny Billquist > Well, it is not correct when we then include that it is 43 years old... > Internets using TCP/IP is a bit over 30 years old, but not over 40. Good point! {Does a little math in his head...} 43 years, that gives us 1972. The OP was clearly thinking of the ARPANET. Which as I have mentioned, was _very_ different from TCP/IP, inside. Don't get me wrong, we learned a _tremendous_ amount from the ARPANET, and it was a key step, but it's about as similar to TCP/IP as the Wright brothers airplanes (with their 'wing-warping' roll control system, etc) are to modern airplanes. (And actually, that's slightly unfair to the Wright brothers; their airplanes are, IMO, actually closer to modern airplanes than the ARPANET is to TCP/IP!) Noel

10 years, 8 months

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Miniscribe "bricks" (was Re: Common Maxtor MFM drive failure mode -- any ideas?)

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Eric Smith > One possible lesson to be learned: always pay cash when buying > materials for inventory fraud. Not to mention 'don't fire people who've been helping you commit fraud' (the whole thing unravelled when they 'down-sized' some people in the shipping department who'd been helping with the fraud - they promptly reported it). A couple of other URL's someone sent me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniScribe https://blog.gillware.com/data-recovery-case/the-first-hard-drive-to-brick Thanks! Noel

10 years, 8 months

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Miniscribe "bricks" (was Re: Common Maxtor MFM drive failure mode -- any ideas?)

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Pierre Gebhardt > Haha, I guess you're alluding to the massive scam with the bricks, > Miniscribe did back them to pretend stocks full of disk drives... Never heard the story. Can someone oblige? > BTW, are there any other similar stories from the disk drive buisiness > back in these days? I don't know about disk drives, but there are lot of scam stories. One minicomputer manufacturer (sorry, don't remember who, but I think it was on the 128 belt) was shipping empty cabinets, in order to meet projections (I dunno if they couldn't afford the parts to build the guts, or if their manufacturing division couldn't build the stuff, or what). Noel

10 years, 8 months

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Oddball question: really small terminals

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

yes we have one line LED letter terminals used for Deaf and hard of Hearing. we will buy more of them too. do you have any of them? ASCII or BAUDOT either for our Deaf Telecom diaplay. Drop me a line offlist thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC In a message dated 10/24/2015 8:44:59 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, charles.unix.pro at gmail.com writes: On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 8:39 PM, Alexandre Souza < alexandre.tabajara at gmail.com> wrote: > 16 char x 1 line is small enough? :) > Em 25/10/2015 01:34, "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> escreveu: > > > On 10/24/2015 08:10 PM, Cindy Croxton wrote: > > > >> How small is "really small"? IBM made a terminal with a 5" screen for > >> the 4704 banking systems. http://frente-cajas.blogspot.com/ > >> > > > > I've got one with a 64 character 1-line LED display. Is that small > enough? > > > > --Chuck > > > > > Set the baud rate really low and tie an LED to the xmit line. -- Charles

10 years, 8 months

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Retro Reproduction.

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Rod Smallwood > perhaps we can pool our knowledge and and allocate getting different > parts sourced/made to different people. Makes sense to me. > 2. Lever keys (pdp8 type and PDP11 type ) For the PDP-11, there are three kinds of plastic toggle/actuator: one like the ones used on the mid-age PDP-8's, used on the 11/20; one sui generis one used on the 11/05; one for the 11/40/45/70. The latter two use the toggle switch (the one we've just been discussing); the 11/20 one uses a slide switch. ISTR that there's a CAD drawing for the first kind, and maybe the third too. > I shall now go and hide behind my six foot / nineteen inch main rack in > case of heavy flack No, makes sense (to me, at least). Noel PS: I can see where this is going: first we're already making parts like front panels; we're about to start making/selling new cards (I'm thinking MEM-11, etc, here); soon someone will start reproducing some of the older boards that are now rare, and command high prices (my suggestion for the first - the M792 diode ROM board); and then it will be cabinets like the H960 (ditto); and then finally, somewhere down the line, you'll be able to buy a complete, brand-spanking-new PDP-8 or PDP-11. Just like the vintage steam engine scene in the UK; first they started making new parts to repair the old ones, and now there are several groups building entire new engines entirely out of new parts.

10 years, 8 months

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Save a poor printing terminal

by silent700＠gmail.com

This unfortunate creature has seen ill-storage and a slight mouse infestation and bears the rusty scars of time and moisture. But with your kindness and patience, it will have the chance to bound joyfully through fields of Greenbar once again, bringing joy and the printed word/ASCII art to all who meet it. Called LA120 by those that bred it, DECwriter III by those who loved it, you can call it yours for the mere effort of picking it up from the Chicago suburbs. Shipping will probably be impractical and, sadly, its time is short as my shelter needs the space for other lost souls. The man and his truck from the glue factory are already hovering along my road. Heart-rending photos available upon request. -j

10 years, 8 months

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Olivetti M24 Bus Converter Card

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I have an M24 which does not have the bus converter card P1050). There are a couple of these cards on ebay in the USA, which makes it expensive for me, and I am not sure which of the two would be best anyway. There is another bus converter available in the UK, but it is PC1076 (IF 622), which my web searches suggest make it for the M280 (which was a 286 machine). Does anyone have any idea if this latter card might work in my M24? It certainly looks to be physically compatible. Regards Rob

10 years, 8 months

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looking for Siemens T100 telexes in the US

by simski＠dds.nl

As my mail to cctech dod'nt came through, here a mail only to the cctalk list. sorry if it becomes a double post. Hi All, I was contacted via the greenkeys list for my spare parts of the two T100 telexes, but I think it should be possible to obtain them in the states. Is there someone willing to part of their broken or otherwise non/half functional T100 in the usa. they need the machines for a movie in the New York area. -- Met vriendelijke Groet, Simon Claessen drukknop.nl

10 years, 8 months

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piggybacked TSOP memory chips

by dave＠661.org

Someone on #classiccmp showed pictures of a DDR SDRAM module with piggybacked TSOP memory chips. I've never heard of doing this with surface-mounted devices. http://imgur.com/a/CGk8h -- David Griffith dave at 661.org A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

10 years, 8 months

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Speaking of reproductions..

by unclefalter＠yahoo.ca

I was checking out the Altair 8800 kit online (really cool). But I am hoping to one day find a kit or plans to build a Mark-8 replica, since I'm so deep into Radio Electronics features. I know there was a kit out there (Obtronix?). Was it any good? Do I need someone to make a new kit or is the Mark 8 within the realm of the home hobbyist the way the TVT was? Ie. were there ever foil patterns available for those boards or did the kit maker reverse engineer from originals? Is there any likelihood of finding one of the replica kits still out there (I remember seeing one offered for $2000 on Fleabay once.. ) Brad

10 years, 8 months

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Retro Reproduction 2

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hi Guys Well my missive on reproductions seems to have generated some interest. There seems to be a lot of will to keep the old systems going and to reproduce parts for them and indeed build complete systems from new parts. The main areas of interest are front panels (Not just DEC), key switches and bezels. Panels I can handle. Who wants to be the focus for switches and who for bezels? More than one person for each category can only be a good thing. I'll call them "The Makers" Those who want the items I'll call "The Takers" from 'I'll take one / some if they get made." Thats my two cents on parts sourcing. The other topic was less computer centric and can be defined as "They don't make them any more" The UK is full of small companies making and repairing all kinds of past products. For example the MGB GT (a much loved British sports car). The factory stopped making them in the early 1980's However a few guys bought the press tools and have been turning out two or three body shells a day ever since. Copy of a Shelby Cobra - no problem build from a kit. GT40 clone oh yes! Now we are not in that league but with the various tasks taken on by those with the knowledge and experience we can make the difficult to parts available. Rod Smallwood

10 years, 8 months

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The Internet & our hobby

by Wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net

Don't get me wrong... Emacs isn't a bad OS... Too bad there isn't a decent text editor for it.? Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> Date: 10/23/2015 4:29 PM (GMT-05:00) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: The Internet & our hobby On Fri, 23 Oct 2015, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > Fred Cisin wrote: >> >> While I won't try to claim that the FIRST or SECOND >> emails were flames, I'm inclined to think that they >> started early.? 'course in our day, we were much more >> polite in how we flamed > > > Emacs?? You _MUST_ be kidding. I'd expect wide-eyed stares from a vi user... ;-) Q: What goes "beep beep beep"? A: A Little Nash Rambler... and a vi novice. -ethan

10 years, 8 months

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Making a PDP-11 bezel

by oscar.vermeulen＠hotmail.com

>> http://retrocmp.com/projects/pdp-11-70-panel-on-blinkenbone/243-simulated-p… That's a work of art, together with the PDP-10 he did. I saw them running on a nice touch screen at VCF Berlin, and I wondered whether all this physical replication stuff makes sense when that's around at zero cost. Then I put my blinkers back on and went ahead anyway :) >> You hit upon one of the key needs for these projects, a good replica bezel. >> In my project I had to have a plexiglass bezel laser cut then used white plastic >> to frame that bezel. It works but I would love to have a replica bezel. Did you perchance make a CAD design for that, which could be reused? ;) I'm drafting a design at the moment, but far from perfect still. I think of all the technologies available for making the bezel, vacuum forming seems to make the most sense. Injection molding is much better quality but just too expensive (tens of thousands USD). The other approaches, I think, work fine for small quantities. But I suspect there's a 'need' to make a few hundred. Probably the best way is to make a very good open-source CAD model. Then make a low-cost vacuum forming mold, whilst anyone could still use the CAD file for higher-quality one-offs on a CNC router or, perhaps, 3D printer. The problem with vacuum forming is that you cannot make much more details other than the outer hull, which will look fine but need a lot of work on the inside to really mount in an original PDP-11. Regards, Oscar.

10 years, 8 months

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The Internet & our hobby

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Johnny Billquist > not going to try and contradict what you wrote. Right, I wasn't meaning to imply what you said was incorrect, just giving a little more detail on what was a murky and complicated process. > I suspect it's because people now assume that "Internet" was always > TCP/IP Define "the Internet"! :-) If one describes it as 'the large collection of interoperating networks speaking TCP/IP', then that statement _is_ correct! If one instead uses a broader definition, something like 'computer networks in general' (pulling in things like Usenet), then, no, it's not correct. I'm _not_ trying to say that there is only one, correct, definition of 'the Internet' - but various statements about 'the Internet' may or may not be accurate, depending on which definition is used. Noel

10 years, 8 months

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The Internet & our hobby

by geneb＠deltasoft.com

On Fri, 23 Oct 2015, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > Fred Cisin wrote: >> While I won't try to claim that the FIRST or SECOND >> emails were flames, I'm inclined to think that they >> started early. 'course in our day, we were much more >> polite in how we flamed > > Emacs? You _MUST_ be kidding. > WordStar. Non-document mode. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

10 years, 8 months

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The Internet & our hobby

by c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com

43 years ago around this time the Internet we use to communicate with was probably made possible because of TCP/IP, or Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol created at Stanford University. Today 3 billion people are on the net but really made it possible for this extravagant number was the microcomputer created at around the same time ? the Micral in France and 4004 processor machines in the U.S. Our hobby supported through this web site keeps this history alive. Hurrah! Happy computing. Murray :) PS This week marks the 100th anniversary of Einstein?s Theory of General Relativity though published in 1916 according to Wikipedia.

10 years, 8 months

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The Internet & our hobby

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Fred Cisin > It was inevitable that eventually there would be movementS towards > standardization of protocols on the arpanet. Actually, TCP/IP grew out of the desire to interconnect two very different kinds of network - the ARPANET, and something called the Packet Radio Network (and also a thing called SatNet). The technical details of each were such that it just wouldn't be feasible to extend the ARPANET protocols to work on them too, they were fundamentally different (I'm not talking about low level things like packet size, but higher-level concepts, like reliability, etc); something new was required - and TCP/IP looks _very_ little like the ARPANET's NCP. > From: Chuck Guzis > I do miss the web-less Internet in some respects. People were more > polite back then--at least in their written communication. I snorted and started coughing when I read that! :-) Usenet had massive flame wars long before the Web existed! Noel

10 years, 8 months

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The Internet & our hobby

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

never heard of it - Ed# In a message dated 10/23/2015 10:08:44 A.M. US Mountain Standard Tim, paulkoning at comcast.net writes: How many people consider the Micral to be of that level of significance?

10 years, 8 months

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The Internet & our hobby

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

but! now that we have heard of it SMECC museum wants one! Ed# In a message dated 10/23/2015 10:43:50 A.M. US Mountain Standard Tim, rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com writes: Nope never heard of it either Rod On 23/10/15 18:29, COURYHOUSE at aol.com wrote: > never heard of it - Ed# > > > In a message dated 10/23/2015 10:08:44 A.M. US Mountain Standard Tim, > paulkoning at comcast.net writes: > > How many people consider the Micral to be of that level of significance?

10 years, 8 months

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KIM Uno /PiDP-11 plans...

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> OK, I've cracked the part number code. The things we are looking for are: > 7101J50 CxE > 7108J50 CxE > ... > the C+K Web site showed two places (Electro-Sonic and > Online-Components) stocking 7101J50 CQE2's .. investigating further now. OK, so I've ordered 10 7101J50-CQE2's from Online (that was their minium order, sigh). _Iff_ they fit into the old front panels, I'll let the list know. Nobody had the 7108J50C's (the momentary contact ones), but if the 7101J50C's are the Right Thing, I'm prepared to order a batch of the 7108's from C+K; the minium order looks like 40 or so (that's how many the distributors who had the 7101J50-CQE2's had ordered), which I can do off the cuff (and resell at cost to anyone who needs one); if the minimum is larger, we'll have to reconsider how to proceed. The ones from Online are like $5 each, which sounds a lot for a switch, but if you're got a PDP-11 with a non-operable front pable because a switch is busted, it's downright cheap! Also, that will of course include the distributor's markup - if we bought a batch directly from C+K, we might be able to get that down quite a bit. Anyway, let's see if the 7101J50-C's fit, then we can discuss how to proceed. Noel

10 years, 8 months

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Model 28 Teletype on ebay

by unclefalter＠yahoo.ca

Hey guys, Further to our conversation - I was looking at this beast: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Teletype-equipment-1-model-28-writer-1-reperforater- 1-50vdc-supply-etc-/121791042544?hash=item1c5b4fd3f0:g:UR8AAOSwnDZUJHWs Wasn't sure if it was two units? The first couple of pics look different. Anyway, if I understood correctly, it was possible (and possibly done in the 1970s by hobbyists) to convert one of these baudot teletypes to ASCII and use with a computer? This one is out of my reach since the auction is pick up only. But I kind of like the look of the Model 28 and I understand they're pretty bulletproof once you have them working. I'm just not sure if this would work, and if this particular one is ASR or what, because it mentions a reperforator and from what I read 28s that came with that had a tape reader also? Brad

10 years, 8 months

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Previous message: KIM Uno /PiDP-11 plans...

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Dave Wade > What I found hard was obtaining centre off switches as it appear from > this picture ... that PDP-11 Switches may be flipped up or down, or is > that not true? No, they are all 'standard' (except for the mounting) SPST switches; most (e.g. the address/data bits) are normal two-position, although some (LOAD ADDR, DEPOSIT, EXAM, START and CONTINUE, IIRC) are momentary-contact. The 'toggle' (the plastic part that fits over the switch) has an off-center shaft that goes around the switch's metal actuating shaft, so that the toggle can be level when the switch is in the 'un-set' position. Some of the switches are installed 'the other way around', and they depress instead of lift (typically the address-data switches lift, and the function ones depress, although there are exceptions - e.g. DEPOSIT is a lift). > I believe they were made by C&K who are still in business. I wonder if > it is worth approaching them. If they're not actually still availble - see below. > The double pole version appears to be still "stocked", I see Farnell > has some in the UK That is _almost_ the exact switch (I just about had a heart attack when I saw them, and started to order some until I realized they weren't quite it); it has the right mounting mechanicals (note the two triangular side plates with the holes through the tips - the toggle have pins which go into the holes, and the toggle pivots on them). Alas, it's DPDT, not SPST. And it's momentary contact (although each PDP-11 panel does contain some momentary-contact switches). But if C+K is still making _these_, they should have no problems making the SPST version - if, in fact, they are not still in production. I tried looking through the catalog at that site, to see if I could find the SPST version, but no luck. (Although maybe I'm just a klutz about that site - it wasn't easy for me to use.) Maybe your parts-search-fu is better than mine? Noel

10 years, 8 months

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KIM Uno /PiDP-11 plans...

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> It's just a matter of working out what the part number would be! OK, I've cracked the part number code. The things we are looking for are: 7101J50 CxE 7108J50 CxE where x is a letter selecting the contact material (about 10 options, including gold, silver, gold-over-silver, etc). The 7101's are the normal permanent contact, the 7108's are the momentary contact used in a few positions. The ones Dave found are ZQE's, the 'Z' meaning they are solder lugs, not PCB through-hole lugs, and the 'Q' meaning silver contacts. A Google search didn't find any 7101J50 C's, only Z's. But the C+K Web site showed two places (Electro-Sonic and Online-Components) stocking 7101J50 CQE2's (the trailing '2' means 'black actuator' - their name for what I've been calling the toggle, the plastic part the finger touches); investigating further now. Noel

10 years, 8 months

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Retro Reproduction.

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hi Guys We seem to have a bit of a rush on to do reproductions of mainly digital front panels, bezels and switches. Before we all run round and go through the same learning curve perhaps we can pool our knowledge and and allocate getting different parts sourced/made to different people. I am now up to speed on the perspex panels for all models they were actually used on, from pdp8 up to 11/70. I also have a proven production system. No fancy machines just perspex (plexiglas) blanks and silk screen process as per the the originals. So who wants to do 1. Bezels 2. Lever keys (pdp8 type and PDP11 type ) 3. Key/lamp pcbs (connect as replacements to original systems or to microprocessors) 4. Micro processor and custom software to drive the above. ( Suggest Rainbow Pi as Its low cost and is known to run the right simulations) I can quite understand somebody wanting to do the whole process themselves. However not everybody who would like a nice full size 8 or 11 functional front panel has the time, knowledge or access to the right resources to do it. I shall now go and hide behind my six foot / nineteen inch main rack in case of heavy flack Rod Smallwood

10 years, 8 months

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KIM Uno /PiDP-11 plans...

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Alexandre Souza > Easily done if I had the original part on hand We have plenty of the original bezels, from which it would be easy to cast molds (the same part is used on the 11/45 and 11/70, unlike the rest of the front console). The real issue in any front panel recreation is going to be the switches (not the plastic toggles, the actual electrical device). Both the /45 and /70 used the now-apparently-unobtainium version with the intergral metal plate to hold the switch in place in a metal holder plate. So a recreation front panel is going to have to have some new mechanical design, to allow use of standard micro-switches - and that's probably going to mean a re-design of the plastic toggles, as those attached to side-plates on the original toggle switches. (That's all a bit difficult to describe in words; a picture will make it obvious, if anyone wants to know more.) I wonder how big an order of switches would be required before some switch-making firm could be convinced to do a run? Maybe whoever made the 'back in the day' still has the tooling to do so gathering dust in an old room.... > From: David C. Jenner > How about making a version for a REAL PDP-11/70 front panel, and one > for a REAL PDP-11/45 front panel, for those of us who have such stashed > away waiting for the right simulator to come along... To do that is going to require exactly emulating the interface to the CPU, which is not going to be entirely trivial. Physically, the signals all come over flat ribbon cables to standard Berg connectors, so that won't be hard, but I doubt the interface is documented, someone will have to puzzle it out by reading prints - and probably looking at a working one with a logic analyzer. Also, powering the front console requires an unusual AMP connector shell, although that may still be available? And of course one could always bodge the power connection... Noel

10 years, 8 months

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KIM Uno /PiDP-11 plans...

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> Alas, it's DPDT, not SPST. Ooops; the ones in the PDP-11 front panels (/05, /45, /70 and almost certainly the /40 too) are SPDT, not SPST (typing too fast, in my excitement that these have finally been found :-). I looked at the data sheet for the ones you found, and it's actually a sheet for the whole series, from which it looks virtually certain that the right ones (both pemanent and momentary contact) can be ordered from C+K. It's just a matter of working out what the part number would be! Noel

10 years, 8 months

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The Internet & our hobby

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Johnny Billquist > the switch to TCP/IP only happened in 1982-1983. So while the > "internet" (well, ARPANET actually) existed before then, it was not > TCP/IP based. The conversion of the _ARPANET_ from NCP to TCP/IP happened on 1 January, 1983. However, 'the Internet' (in the sense of a grouping of networks over which TCP/IP packets flowed) had been around for some time before that, both as i) a testbed for developing the TCP/IP protocols and software used for that cutover, and ii) for network service to machines which couldn't get an ARPANET port (remember that at that point in time, there were no personal computers, just time-sharing systems). The history of TCP/IP and the Internet up until that point is complicated (I lived through it, so I should remember, but alas the memory dims :-), but the first use for actual service (as opposed to testing software, demos, etc) would have been a year or two before that - exactly when is somewhat lost in in the mists of time. Although the ARPANET pre-dated the Internet, it was used to carry TCP/IP traffic (directly, not inside NCP - the protocol used between hosts on the ARPANET before TCP/IP) long before the cutover; it was _the_ long-haul network in the early Internet, and connected together all the various local TCP/IP 'hot spots' (to use modern jargon). 'All' that happened on January 1, 1983 was that the ability of the ARPANET to carry NCP packets was disabled. Of course, in the months prior to that, all the ARPANET hosts which didn't _already_ have TCP/IP running (many did, to speak to other machines locally which didn't have ARPANET ports) went through a big thrash to get TCP/IP software, and get it installed, tested and running. Noel

10 years, 8 months

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KIM Uno /PiDP-11 plans...

by oscar.vermeulen＠hotmail.com

Hi, >> Oscar is already working on another very promising product. >> [..]He will also pay a visit to my "museum" to take a few measurements. Sorry, can't say more >> I'll leave that up to Oscar. Perhaps he want to stay "below the radar" until that project is finished ... Thanks for the kind words on my strange replica mania! We all need to do silly things at some point in our lives. No secret... I'd love to do an "Open Source Hardware" PDP-11/70 replica (or remake - whatever choice of words is preferred). Electronically, it would a simple variation on the PiDP-8 (i.e., simh brains on a Raspberry Pi, hiding behind a front panel PCB). It's just a different emulator from the simh stable with less LEDs. But a 11/70 replica needs two physical 'cosmetic elements': proper switches, and the white bezel/frame. The switches *seem* to be feasible to produce cheaply (I will know in a month with PDP-8/I switches...). The white bezel though brings me into unknown territory. 3D CAD (based on Museum Measurements), then injection molding or vacuum forming. Or any technique to produce a plastic object in medium quantities. All I know so far is that it's very feasible - and much cheaper to do than just a few years ago. If anyone here *does* have know-how in this field, I'd love any advice. I got some preliminary quotes and recommendations on making a case replica using vacuum forming. Which is relatively cheap. Not perfect, but low cost is very important for such a gadget. Kind regards, Oscar.

10 years, 8 months

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Seeking Terry Gulczynski

by dave＠661.org

Has anyone heard from Terry Gulczynski (http://stack180.com/) since October 12? I've been waiting for him to tell me it's okay to send him a P112 kit for assembly and testing. Now I'm worrying that something may have happened to him. He lives in Daytona Beach, Florida. -- David Griffith dave at 661.org A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

10 years, 8 months

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PDP2011 board

by jws＠jwsss.com

I'm not sure if the author of this nice bit of work is on here, but I'm looking at a board for this, the Altera DE-1. Unfortunately there are a plethora of Altera DE-1 boards and much puzzlement by me as to whether this is the right one. The page with the info is deficient in details to tell. The actual part which the author used is the key thing here, and not just the name of the board. I'd appreciate opinions here as to whether these will run PDP2011 or whether it will be a nice learning board for my mistake pile. http://pdp2011.sytse.net/wordpress/pdp-11/fpga-boards/de1/ There is currently what I think is a good specimen available if anyone is interested. http://www.ebay.com/itm/131621388597 It includes the software and docs. The current one I have was a student version sans the documents and software. I hope to get the thing going to play with sometime soon. There are so many small boards out there for very little money once I get this done and understand more about targeting this board and others I'd like to see how cheap a board this could be made to run with give the current boards. There is currently an Arm/fpga Zilog chip board now made available that would be a nifty board to make into a PDP11 if it comes out as cheap as they promise it to be. thanks Jim

10 years, 8 months

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HI TEK Keyboard plungers?

by Martin.Hepperle＠dlr.de

Hello, I have been servicing an HP 85A and an HP 85B desktop computer (printer belts, tape drive capstan). While the key caps of the "A" model are plugged into yellow plungers (according to the service manual the manufacturer is "STACKPOLE") the "B" came with white plungers ("Hi TEK" according to the svc. manual). The yellow plungers were all in good condition, while several of the white plungers are split along one or two edges. I understand that this is a common problem with these HiTek keys. The HP 85B suffers from this problem especially on the space bar which gets stuck when depressed. So my question is: is there a way to repair (glue? melt?) these split plungers or are there replacement/alternative plungers available to replace the white HI TEK parts? I would need at least one (ideally more like 5) as the remaining broken plungers are still working. These keys seem to be used also in some VT100, DECWriter and even some Ti-99/4 keyboards. If I cannot find a replacement, I would probably drill a lot of small holes into the plunger, glue it to the key cap, and then rework the outer dimensions so that it slides smoothly into the casing. But then I would probably not be able to remove the key caps later, after snapping it back into the casing - sort of one way fix with some risk. Thank you for any recommendations, Martin -------------------------- Deutsches Zentrum f?r Luft- und Raumfahrt e.V. (DLR) German Aerospace Center Institute of Aerodynamics and Flow Technology | Lilienthalplatz 7 | 38108 Braunschweig | Germany Dr.-Ing. Martin Hepperle | Aircraft Design and Configuration Aerodynamics Telephone +49 531 295-3337 | Telefax +49 531 295-2320 | E-Mail: Martin.Hepperle at dlr.de<mailto:Martin.Hepperle at dlr.de> Internet: www.DLR.de<http://www.dlr.de/>

10 years, 8 months

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PiDP-11 plans...

by mark＠matlockfamily.com

Oscar, I am very excited to hear about your PiDP-11 project. I also would urge you to go to 1:1 scale for the PDP-11/70 panel and also utilize the classic Purple and Pink color scheme. I saw Henk's PDP-11/70 reanimation and dreamed of doing one some day, and then saw Jorge Hoppe's work and contacted him when I finally was able to obtain a PDP-11/70 front panel. It was one of the later DECsystem 570 styles in Blue, light Blue and White. My project is detailed on Jorg's website as well as his projects which not only include a PDP-11/70 but also a KI-10!! Anyway interested is learning about these projects or just want to see a virtual PDP-11/70 running RSX11M+ on their Windows or Linux PCs should check out: http://retrocmp.com/projects/pdp-11-70-panel-on-blinkenbone/243-simulated-p… http://retrocmp.com/projects/pdp-11-70-panel-on-blinkenbone/189-pdp-11-70-c… You hit upon one of the key needs for these projects, a good replica bezel. In my project I had to have a plexiglass bezel laser cut then used white plastic to frame that bezel. It works but I would love to have a replica bezel. So I have thought about two other approaches to thermoforming. One is to make a silicone mold which then can be used to make new bezels from polyurethane. A video about that approach uses a 3D printed part to create a silicone mold which is then cut in half and the silicone is now the mold for more rigid polyurethane which is poured into the mold sealed allowed to cure then the part is removed and a new part is cast. It's not extremely fast like injection molding, but it could be used to make a mold from an original part if necessary. see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7bNFT4Dcs4 The second approach is something I used many years ago to produce some solvent resistant two holed stoppers for a lab instrument. I found some PVC stoppers that worked very well but the lab supply house quit selling them. I have a M.S. in Polymer Chemistry and was familiar with PVC plastisol that when heated to about 180 C then cooled makes a tough somewhat flexible rubber like material. If you were a child in the 1960s you may have done this with a "Thingmaker" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creepy_Crawlers The "Plasticgoop" is the PVC plasticsol and it can be made with a wide range of hardnesses and pigmented to any color as the PVC plasticsol is clear (It is what Tygon tubing is made from). To use this approach you would need a metal mold but it would not need to hold pressure like an injection molding machine. The heating can be done on a hot plate and monitored with an IR thermometer. In the day we could get a part from the mold about every 8 to 10 minutes by quenching with cold water. One other comment I would make is that it would be great to modified the SImh V4.0 to work with the PDP-11 front panel. Most of the code supporting the panels are either V3.8 or V3.9. These front panel reanimations should be part of the Simh development. Also, thanks for your wonderful PiDP-8 !! i would never have been able to afford a real PDP-8 to learn about them Mark Hi, >> Oscar is already working on another very promising product. >> [..]He will also pay a visit to my "museum" to take a few measurements. Sorry, can't say more >> I'll leave that up to Oscar. Perhaps he want to stay "below the radar" until that project is finished ... Thanks for the kind words on my strange replica mania! We all need to do silly things at some point in our lives. No secret... I'd love to do an "Open Source Hardware" PDP-11/70 replica (or remake - whatever choice of words is preferred). Electronically, it would a simple variation on the PiDP-8 (i.e., simh brains on a Raspberry Pi, hiding behind a front panel PCB). It's just a different emulator from the simh stable with less LEDs. But a 11/70 replica needs two physical 'cosmetic elements': proper switches, and the white bezel/frame. The switches *seem* to be feasible to produce cheaply (I will know in a month with PDP-8/I switches...). The white bezel though brings me into unknown territory. 3D CAD (based on Museum Measurements), then injection molding or vacuum forming. Or any technique to produce a plastic object in medium quantities. All I know so far is that it's very feasible - and much cheaper to do than just a few years ago. If anyone here *does* have know-how in this field, I'd love any advice. I got some preliminary quotes and recommendations on making a case replica using vacuum forming. Which is relatively cheap. Not perfect, but low cost is very important for such a gadget. Kind regards, Oscar.

10 years, 8 months

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Model 28 Teletype on ebay

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

2 units one tape puncher thing the other table top ksr 28 other thing a Powersupply Ed Sharpe In a message dated 10/22/2015 5:57:22 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, unclefalter at yahoo.ca writes: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Teletype-equipment-1-model-28-writer-1-reperforater- 1-50vdc-supply-etc-/121791042544?hash=item1c5b4fd3f0:g:UR8AAOSwnDZUJHWs

10 years, 8 months

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HP 1663A Logic Analyzer keyboard

by cclist＠sydex.com

On a sudden impulse, I put in a bid for an HP1663A logic analyzer for $30 and won for $29. Just got the thing--it's essentially in like-new condition--not even a scratch, no CRT burn and comes with the original set of pods and grabbers. Not so much as a fingerprint anywhere--even the line cord is clean. Must have come from a rental place. I've got the user and programming manuals, but that keyboard jack in the back has me befuddled. It's an RJ45 modular jack with the middle 4 positions populated. The manual only refers to it as a "standard" keyboard and mouse connector. What does that mean, exactly? What kind of signals does this "standard" keyboard use? Thanks, Chuck

10 years, 8 months

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VT100 and/or VT105 rescued from scrap

by lukas.kaminski＠krankikom.de

Hello list, i got hands on several VT100 and VT105 parts. It SEEMS (at least to me) to be one complete terminal without a power supply and some additional parts. I took pictures of everything, which can be seen here: https://antares.krankikom.de/index.php/s/vcIZuHbpsn3lSoL (sorry for the self-signed certificate) I already found this interesting page: https://github.com/bbenchoff/VT100Adapter, so i guess i have everything to try to repair the VT100. But i never tried something like that, and i fear to break something as soon i connect anything to power. How should i start? I especially don't know how to clean the boards, check the eproms and i'm afraid that the CRT is broken, since it has a sticky fluid on it. Bye, Lukas Kaminski

10 years, 8 months

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DecServer 550 chassis

by jws＠jwsss.com

These are the cards in the DecServer 550. Looks to be an expansion chassis with 108 ports or so. Thanks Jim Photos of the DecServer 550 https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4AXJXpUCE-hQ2lsc2lqS3VHd0U&usp=sha…

10 years, 8 months

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Has anyone hear of the Computer History Archives Project?

by christian_liendo＠yahoo.com

I found a channel that's about a Month old, but no real information as to who they are. Computer History Archives Educational Vintage Computer Films View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOyJD0RHtF_77_oAf5tT1nQ

10 years, 8 months

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looking for Siemens T100 telexes in the US

by simski＠dds.nl

Hi All, I was contacted via the greenkeys list for my spare parts of the two T100 telexes, but I think it should be possible to obtain them in the states. Is there someone willing to part of their broken or otherwise non/half functional T100 in the usa. they need the parts for a movie. -- Met vriendelijke Groet, Simon Claessen drukknop.nl

10 years, 8 months

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LA-36 DECWriter II Keyboard Assembly

by rickb＠bensene.com

Hello, all, I have an otherwise good DECWriter II (LA-36) terminal that has a bad keyboard. A number of the keyswitches are messed up (the little gold contacts are mangled or the switch assembly itself is damaged), and the nature of the Cherry-made keyboard in this thing is that the keyswitch modules are not individually replaceable. I'm querying the list to see if anyone out there may have a parts LA-36, or a spare keyboard assembly for same that I can get my hands on. I'd like to get this thing running again, but with a bad keyboard, even though it all works great (I can test that the keys that are messed up are scanned properly by shorting across the PCB traces and the terminal responds appropriately), it's pretty much useless. Somewhere in the life of this machine something HEAVY fell/dropped on the keyboard, and about 1/3rd of the keyswitches ended up getting mangled as well as some of the keycaps. The only option appears to be to find a replacement for the whole keyboard assembly. Thanks in advance, -Rick --- Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Museum http://oldcalculatormuseum.com

10 years, 8 months

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VT100 and/or VT105 rescued from scrap

by billdegnan＠gmail.com

> > > -----Original Message----- > From: "william degnan" <billdegnan at gmail.com> > Sent: ?21/?10/?2015 12:51 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: VT100 and/or VT105 rescued from scrap > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 6:19 AM, Rod Smallwood < > rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote: > > > VT 100's have one weak point. The monitor is a bought in part from Ball > > Bros. > > The Ball supplied drive board burns up a diode and cap. It will be > > obvious on inspection of the board. > > I have never been able to get a circuit diagram or I'd do a replacement > > board. > > > > Needless to say the DEC parts are mde of sterner stuff > > > > Rod > > > > > Is that true of the vt102 as well? > Bill > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 8:10 AM, Robert Jarratt < robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote: > I had forgotten about that. There is a useful page on this somewhere, but > I am away from home and can't get the link right now. Will try to send out > the link later. > > Regards > > Rob > I have one of each, I use the VT102 for "every day" use and save the VT100 for holidays and leap year day, etc. Assuming the VT100 is more fragile...needs to be run periodically but not too much. Bill -- Bill

10 years, 8 months

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Data General NOVA 4/C help

by henk.gooijen＠hotmail.com

I picked up the NOVA 4 last Thursday. I had help carrying all the stuff (disassembled) downstairs from the attic. At home I had to unload the van single-handed. Went well, although I felt my back that evening ... Today, I cleaned the rack, as all boxes were still on the floor. There was little dust, the machine was well taken care of. After the cleaning I mounted the hard disk drive on the slides. The hard drive is a model 6101-S2 (12.5 MB fixed disk). On the top plate of the hard disk is an 8" Qume floppy disk drive mounted. The hard disk and the floppy disk form one unit, never seen this construction before! The colored twisted-pair flatcable from the floppy drive goes to the hard disk and another colored twisted-pair flat cable goes to the NOVA 4/C computer, connecting on a paddle board using an edge connector. See my website: www.pdp-11.nl/dg/nova4/nova4.html After everything was connected I applied mains. The fans start to run, so far so good. Then I switch on the NOVA and then the hard disk unit. The POWER LED on the NOVA and on the hard disk is lit. I can hear the hard disk "hum", and when the humming sound stops after a few seconds the READY LED is lit. However, when I press RESET on the NOVA and then PR.LOAD, the READY LED on the disk flashes momentarily (brief), but nothing further happens. On the disk drive are (behind the panel) two small switches. One has the text "NORM" and "PROT", the other has several texts (forgotten), but with that switch you can set the hard disk as device 0 and the floppy drive device 1, or the hard disk as device 1 and the floppy disk as device 0. Basically you can set the boot device, as the machine starts from device 0. I have this from the accompanying documentation. When I put that switch in the other position and press RESET and then PR.LOAD on the NOVA, the floppy disk LED is lit for a few seconds, but I do not hear a head load ("clunk"), nor head stepping sounds. Of course, the floppy drive is loaded with a floppy disk. The label on the floppy says "opstart" (Dutch for start up). As the floppy disk access LED turn on, I guess that I can say that the NOVA itself is OK. As far as I know, I have the BERG connector put back on the pins where it was before I did the disassembly. That cable connects to the terminal. The question might be whether it was on the correct pins for starters. I do not get any character(s) on the Dasher D200 terminal that came with the system. For that reason, I assume that the terminal settings match the settings for the NOVA. One more remark. On the hard disk is a red label glued. The text on it says "remove 2 shipping brackets before operating unit unlock pivot arm (see over)". On the rear side of the label is a drawing that shows the "front left corner". At the side is a screw (???) to lock/unlock the head(s). However, I just don't understand the drawing and cannot localize that screw. I mailed the previous owner whether he remembers something ... Anybody has info on the 6101-S2 disk drive? A drawing of those shipping rackets, and more info about head locks? Thanks, - Henk

10 years, 8 months

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PDP8 / ETOS

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Rick Murphy > Lots and lots of fun like that. What an space optimizer would do if > there was one. :) Wow. You did all that by hand? If so, with a program that big, wouldn't it have made sense to try and write a separate post-processor to do all those optimizations? Surely it wouldn't have been that much work, compared to going through the entire compiler output! Noel

10 years, 8 months

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Firing up old printers

by trash80＠internode.on.net

As I gradually get my long stored collection out of boxes and onto benches I'm starting to turn my attention to a lot of old dot matrix printers I have. I seem to recall reading or hearing a very long time ago that where a printer has not been fired up for eons that the pins can be stuck in the print head (e.g. by old ink drying out) and cause damage (e.g. bend pins) when it tries to print. I'd be most grateful for any advice on anything I need to do before hitting the print command. Thank you!! ++++++++++ Kevin Parker ++++++++++

10 years, 8 months

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Is it live [WAS:RE: Oddball floppies for trade - 8", HS (outer edge), weird cutout]

by t.gardner＠computer.org

As it turns out the ownership of the Ella tapes is uncertain so Imation/Memorex can't use them without a fight. But there were several other artists, along with the breaking glass that can be used. Imation paid $300 million for the brand - shows the power of a brand. tom -----Original Message----- From: Al Kossow [mailto:aek at bitsavers.org] Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 10:20 AM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Oddball floppies for trade - 8", HS (outer edge), weird cutout On 10/18/15 6:00 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > it's truly amazing that Memorex still exists--as a brand of Imation. > Thank Ella Fitzgerald "Is it live, or is it Memorex" http://www.totalmedia.com/content/trivia-and-tips/maxells-chair-man-hell-bl…

10 years, 8 months

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