- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...)

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-15 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :However, there are 2 things that spring to mind. Firstly Hitachi :were associated with the Compact Floppy disks which are normally :called 3" disks. I've just measured one and : :It's a black plastic case measuring 3+1/8" * 3+7/8" * 3/16" :I've attempted to measure the actual disk through holes in the case, :and it meassures 2.8" in diameter, or thereabouts those'll be the things amstrad used ad nauseam, yep? you can post them for special concessionary cassette rates in japan, we're told - it kept them alive a little while longer than they should have stayed... ;> :Secondly, I've heard of 2.75" disk drives. Some of them were :_sequential_ access - there was no separate head possitioner, it :was driven by the spindle motor. You had to start at the outside of :the disk and read all the data up to the point that you wanted. quick disks. msx used them, as did a few early samplers (roland s10, akai s612(?), etc) and a few other bits. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 1 month

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Question for the Faq - If there is one.

by peacock＠simconv.com

How about initial procedures when you get some new treasure recently saved from the greedy jaws of the salvagers. Things like: blow out the dirt, check for burnt/obviously damaged components, frayed or pinched cables, reseat socketed parts and clean off any corrosion or "purple plague" on the IC pins, power supply outputs, loose screws dropped in the power supply or motherboard. And most important of all....make copies of the schematics and boot disks. Another idea for the FAQ: if it isn't restorable, at least pull all the socketed ICs (and put them in static foam) so someone else might be able to restore one. I keep a big box of old parts from boards I have tossed. Jack Peacock

28 years, 1 month

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System names

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Be careful not jam the (diskette) magazines ;) > >[Kamikaze Pilot] > >Isn't that what's referred to as Shotgun Debugging? >------- > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Robots again

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

At 04:34 AM 3/16/98 -0600, you wrote: >Exactly. All of the useful ideas from AI that became mainstream are no >longer considered AI. Today, OCR, speach recognition, machine >translation, and predictive analysis are off-the-shell apps or embedded in >products like Microsoft Word to help catch your spelling and grammar >errors. What was once the stuff of science fiction epics is now mundane? > >There are still interesting problems, though. Machines can kick your >chess-playing butt, but you won't find one nearly coordinated enough to >hit a baseball and run around a few bases. IMHO, AI researchers have >overestimated the brainstuff and underestimated the sensor and actuator >stuff. Here's my theory of how you learn to speak, for example: > I have always thought that digital computers would never allow us to achieve the ultimate goal of replicting a learning organism. Aren't we just simple conceptual pattern recognition machines? It seems like an analog computer, capable of integration of raw percepts and conceptualization at high speeds, could actually learn and become better and faster than man at thinking and working. If a computer could search a text file for a pattern using the same method as humans, i.e. looking for a shape as the first indicator of a match, rather than a discreet chacter pattern, it would be able to process text much faster than a digital machine. I think it was Ayn Rand's "Objectivist Epistemology" that got me thinking along these lines. > >-- Doug > > -- David Wollmann | dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats.

28 years, 1 month

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Preserving software

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

If you are referring to the Computer museum on Boston Harbor, it's fine. I have no idea what they would do with anything anyone might give them, though. They don't have much space... > >Spring cleaning is approaching, and the storage bins are overflowing. I >have a lot of old PC applications, and I'd like to get rid of them, but >would prefer to see them preserved. Is the Boston museum still in >operation, and if so are they interested in preserving old PC apps? > >I'm hoping that I can find my Microport Unix while I'm at it--I want to >build one of my old ATs and install it, just for fun. > >-- >David Wollmann | >dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. >DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for >IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-15 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :FYI the Extended BASIC interpreter for CP/M-80 and the BASCOM :Compiler for CP/M-80 were excellent products. Neither were :bloatware by any standard. you know, we've heard it mooted that bill gates himself is not a bad programmer. we've also heard that the last thing he worked on in person was the software for the kyocera laptops of the mid 80s. perhaps this is the problem... we have a suspicion that bill gates uses macs - hence the cash investment ;> -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 1 month

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Strange board

by pjoules＠enterprise.net

I have a board which came in a job lot from a bankruptcy sale about 10 years ago. I wonder if anyone can identify it. The only writing on it says 'SYKES' and '9000 MP CONTROLLER'. The most prominent chip is marked MCS6502. It has rows of small chips indexed along the edge of the board A..Y down one side and 1..9 along the short edge. It is about 6" X 10" and has a 12 contact edge connector and two sockets, one of 40 and one of 50 pins either side of the edge connector. There are 3 chips which are (obviously?) memory as they are labelled D1/FC00, F1/FA00 and K1/FE00. There is also a 16MHz crystal oscillator. Any ideas what it might be? Regards Pete

28 years, 1 month

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Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

I quote the FAQ 2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS!?! (Or, in general, be unreasonable with reagard to advocacy posts?) Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, drop any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars. Please please guys and gals; Check your anti-MS baggage at the door. Talk Classic computers.... classic computers.... classic computers. Furthermore, classic computers... classic computers... get the idea? A

28 years, 1 month

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Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-15 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :Can someone help Bill out? Anyone have a copy of the FAQ lying :around? can you make that two copies? we could use one. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 1 month

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Robots again

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-16 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :Perhaps :incredibly, Turing _did_ believe that there was something special :about the brain (in particular he could/would not rule out ESP) and :so I don't think he would ever have claimed that a Turing Machine :could do anything that a human brain could. The TM was designed to :solve a specific problem in mathematical theory, rather than as a :theoretical ultimate brain. no, the brain/intelligence thing came with the "turing *test*" which is the idea that you could converse with a computer on one terminal, a human on another, and not be able to reliably identify which was which. (turing was a complex, fascinating, and very innocent human, and he was treated despicably by the british government after the second world war.) :But now you've got me trying to think of something that an :analog(ue) computer can do that a digital one can't. fuzzy logic...? ;> -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 1 month

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Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-16 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :You know Bruce, it's offensive unthinking tirades like yours that :make me want to unsubscribe from this list and throw my classic :computers in the dumpster just so I would no longer have to count :myself among your company. :Please give me an insight as to _your_ life's work so that I may :call it a steaming pile of horseshit as well. hey, kai, calm down, everyone has to start somewhere... ;> seriously, we very much doubt that everyone in microsoft is set upon filling the world with shite software that slows everything to a dawdle and destroys competition. however, what peeves us is (a) that microsoft *have* eliminated competition to a large extent - it's just not healthy! especially when mr gates has to resort to injecting cash into his most innovative competitor to keep them in that position (hell, alive!) - and (b) that microsoft produce software with the emphasis perpetually on getting people into computers, widening the accessibility of machines, but not really improving in the way that people who need to use and develop with computers for a living require. microsoft, even more than apple these days, produces software "for the rest of us" (inasmuch as the rest of 'em don't try anything ambitious) but microsoft products don't include the necessary hooks and extensibility whereby an expert can get through the easy-features and do things properly with the minimum of interruption. if you can carry that message back to the powers that be, we'd all be very much happier out here. we'd still be worried about the future, because of the lack of competition, but at least it might not be a future of unmitigated mediocrity. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 1 month

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What's with the raw HTML?

by pjoules＠coleg-powys.ac.uk

From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> >If you can't communicate your meaning with plain text, you better go back >and rethink what you're trying to say. Mind you, I don't expect everyone >to be a Robert Frost or William Shakespeare, but you should be able to >convey an idea in your native tongue. > Although English would be preferred despite the fact that it is not the native tongue worldwide ;-) Regards Pete

28 years, 1 month

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Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

At 06:01 PM 3/16/98 -0500, you wrote: [snip] >> Is it this dearth of technical information that accounts for the lack of >> interest in collecting old IBM? > >Yes. That and the general unhackability of the minis. And that most people >hate them. And that most universities had DECs and such in their CS >departments. And the weird parts. > >But wait... > [snip] > >I think also that many people really think that the old IBMs are junk. >They really are not. Amen. You just need manuals, lots and lots of them. >I just purchased (finally found, really) a copy of >*IBM's System/360 and Early 370 Computers*, and a casual quick read >revealed that the S/360 really were very advanced machines, many of >inovations are commonplace today. Other systems, like some of the minis, >have bizarre architectures that, once inside, are fascinating. A lack of >decent development tools, however, is a real crutch. C for the S/3x line >(even Small-C) would be great. I think a lot of people fail to consider that the IBM midrange and mainframes were designed to run businesses without down time--the philosophy of the engineers has always been to keep those pesky hackers out of the system. By hackers, I mean real programmers. Of course the 360 was supposed to be an "all around machine," but from what I've seen, business rules at IBM. >Anyway, send me your old IBMs, size it not a problem (while I gaze at the >photo of the multiprocessing S/370 installation). I would if I could afford the freight. ;) I'd still like to get a 5360 to run Displaywrite/36 folder extractions on, but I have to get the 'Vette out of the garage and install air conditioning in the there before I can even think about it. > >William Donzelli >william(a)ans.net > > > -- David Wollmann dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com

28 years, 1 month

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History of OSs?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Does anyone know of a more-or-less comprehensive history of Operating <Systems online? I'd like to come up to speed on the OSs that are being Unknown try alta vista. <I'd be very interested to see a geneology tree--I've noticed some Unix <genes in DOS (few) and I'm told it was based in part on things CP/M was <doing at the time. The dos geneology is roughly... DEC PDP-8 OS/8 (pip, stat, dir)--> RT-11/RSTS/RSX11--> CPM-80--> CPM86--> dos-1.0--> The VAX OS line up VMS is off the RSX11 part fo the PDP-11 tree. DOS was a translation of 8080 CPM-80 to 8086 by seattle computer. Unix has been an influence but largely not that great. UNIX has it's own tree and there are to say the least many flavors some of which even resemble each other. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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NS 57109?

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Anybody got info on a Nat. Semi. 57109 "Number Oriented Processor"? I've got one on a "calculator interface" board, that I suspect was a primitive math coprocessor. I'd love to get specs on it, and/or replacement chips in case this one dies. advTHANKSance, Bill.

28 years, 1 month

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tandata td-1600

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

I've just received notice of a system.... "have you heard of a Tandata Td-1600? It was one of those Telecom computers I believe. It has a Z1 chip in it (whatever that may be) which I know is not a Z-80 but may be of interest to you just the same. It has a PS and all the right lights seem to be working. RF and RGB monitor outputs." I have no idea what this thing is. Have any of the readers of this list any more information? Cheers A

28 years, 1 month

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Preserving software

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

Spring cleaning is approaching, and the storage bins are overflowing. I have a lot of old PC applications, and I'd like to get rid of them, but would prefer to see them preserved. Is the Boston museum still in operation, and if so are they interested in preserving old PC apps? I'm hoping that I can find my Microport Unix while I'm at it--I want to build one of my old ATs and install it, just for fun. -- David Wollmann | dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats.

28 years, 1 month

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System names

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

> >On 17 Mar 98 at 5:58, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > >> Besides, I name all my machines after >> Sailormoon characters. ------- What names are these (I'm not familiar w/sailor moon)? > >I name systems on my home network after ships from different >anime; Lovely Angel, White Base, Sol Bianca, etc. Guess it comes >from working around the stuff all day. Haven't settled on a name for >my PDP-11/34 yet. I find that if I ever want to address my system by name, I had better not say it anyway ;) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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INTEL PDS-100

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Marty wrote: <> <> I have an Intel PDS-100 Personal Development System but no manuals or <> information on this unit. It is from 1979-1982 I believe, and has two <> prom programming boards with it. The unit is the size of a slightly <> large pc, has a carrying handle with built in monitor, keyboard and <> two 5 1/4" half height floppy drives. It was introduced later in the 1983-85 time frame. 1979 would have been the more expensive and heavy MDS-2xx series. I believe the native OS was ISIS though it's possible that IRMX was also available and CPM as well from third parties. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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System names

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I name systems on my home network after ships from different <anime; Lovely Angel, White Base, Sol Bianca, etc. Guess it comes I name mine after light aircraft. Piper, Cessna, Mooney, Beech, J3CUB, STINSN and an oddball vaxen that was with me during my DEC days VIDSYS::. I have to name a unix pdp11 now. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Ultrix: Which Unix is it based on?

by kyrrin＠jps.net

This is a general question (and a return to topic -- sorry, I didn't mean to start a whole meaningless thread) for my fellow DEC'ers or anyone else with knowledge on the subject; which Unix is Ultrix (notably 4.3) based on, and how badly did DEC bastardize it? It would help me to know, 'cause I plan to use an Ultrix box as a mail processor eventually. Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 1 month

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INTEL PDS-100

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I have an Intel PDS-100 Personal Development System but no manuals or information on this unit. It is from 1979-1982 I believe, and has two prom programming boards with it. The unit is the size of a slightly large pc, has a carrying handle with built in monitor, keyboard and two 5 1/4" half height floppy drives. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks- Marty Mintzell email:marty@itgonline.com

28 years, 1 month

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History of OSs?

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

Does anyone know of a more-or-less comprehensive history of Operating Systems online? I'd like to come up to speed on the OSs that are being discussed here--some of them sound very interesting. I'd be very interested to see a geneology tree--I've noticed some Unix genes in DOS (few) and I'm told it was based in part on things CP/M was doing at the time. -- David Wollmann | dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats.

28 years, 1 month

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Stop ATTACKING! (Especially Microsoft!)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

The more that I think about this, the more that I hate it. People are attacking Microsoft, which I think is *very unfair.*. Sure, they've always got their eye on being the undisputed leader. But is that any different >from what Intel, DEC, Apple, or any other company, no matter how grand in technologies wants? Is that different from what *you* want? So, Microsoft's outgrown itself. For instance, it takes weeks to get a tech support reply back. So what? They're stepping into new territories, that they don't really know about. It makes *competition*, what brings out the best in companies, people, and prices. Anti-competitive measures? Everyone tries them, the only problem is when they *work*. Then, we get upset. For instance, Sun closing software and hardware design discourages competition. It's the same with drivers, hardware specs, and why companies keep most beta information under wraps. So, we've had our fun. We've stated our opinions. Time will prove us right, wrong, or indifferent. Let's let it take it's cource. And, enjoy it while we're on our way. Flaming isn't a solution, it's a problem. I implore you to think of this. Thanks for your time, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

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Tirades? Since when?

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Kai Kaltenbech chose to produce the following... >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:45:01 -0800 >From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> >To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu >Subject: RE: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... >You know Bruce, it's offensive unthinking tirades like yours that make me >want to unsubscribe from this list and throw my classic computers in the >dumpster just so I would no longer have to count myself among your company. I'm truly sorry you feel that way. I notice that you work for Microsoft. With that in mind, your own statements are very understandable. I would point out that I have not attacked you, personally, in any way. You have given me no reason to. You, on the other wing, seem intent on attacking me strictly on the basis of my statement of a personal opinion. Chill out, have a brew, sit back, and think about this for a minute. Who's the one that really produced the "unthinking tirade?" ;-) We are all entitled to our own opinions. I welcome the fact that you obviously disagree with me (if everyone on the planet agreed on everything, I think we'd all be in more trouble than we are now, as a race!). If you would like clarification on why I feel the way I do, and the basis behind my statements, feel free to E-mail me so we don't end up cluttering the list. If you do not feel inclined to do so, that's no problem either. I will say this much and let it go. I have no great love for Microsoft products or for Billy-boy Gates' arrogant attitudes. I am not alone in these beliefs. I am a firm believer in consumer choice for hardware and software. Microsoft seems to support that choice -- as long as it's Microsoft's code-bloated, resource-wasteful software that is chosen. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to get to work. BTW, my apologies to the other readers of this list. This is the last you'll hear from me on this thread. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 1 month

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Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.../old basics

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Does anyone remember Basic5, for CP/M IIRC? It was a 5k Basic which <took up about 8k. As for small languages, ETI published 'Simple' for I do and I have about a truckload of different basics for 8080/z80. The WC CP/M cdrom has at least that many and I haven't looked at all the CPMUG and SIGM files. amoung them: LLL basic Li Chen Wang TBX TINY basic TDL 5k basic Zbasic NS* basic Ebasic Cbasic Sbasic MITS8k MS 8k basic in rom (netronics explorer). MS BASCOM MS extended disk basic I'll bet this is not a definitive list either. <the 8080 c.1977 which was a non-trivial self-contained interactive <interpreter, in 256 bytes including space for your own UART drivers. Simple yes, useful? Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Doesn't help much, sorry. COmmon Business Oriented Language and you say that the C is the only part that's good? What is COBOL like, anyway? >>What's wrong with COBOL? > >The OBOL part. > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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PM2400SA

by jfoust＠threedee.com

"Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >A few years ago, I got a Practical Peripherals thing which was >supposed to be a modem. The model number is PM2400SA. It is external. >It dials out, but for some reason, does not connect when the carrier >on the other end starts. Could someone tell me what this thing is? I believe that's called a "non-functional modem". Try "AT&F" to see if it's resettable to factory defaults. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

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PDP parts rescue in Hannover Germany

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Subject: Hardware for PDP From: H G Duehring <duhring(a)meister.aball.de> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:46:52 +0100 Organization: aball Internet Netzdienste GmbH, Hannover, Germany Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11 I give some hardware for free for UNIBUS and PDP 11/34, pick up by yourself in Germany: RL01/02 Drives ; differtent boards ; R;L01/02 Disks. RX01/02 parts ; 8" Diskettes. RX50 Drives ; RD 51 Drives ; LA50 Printers ; VR201 Screens.

28 years, 1 month

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Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again...

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> wrote: >Please give me an insight as to _your_ life's work so that I may call it a >steaming pile of horseshit as well. Is this the first time you've heard someone criticize Microsoft or its products? >You know Bruce, it's offensive unthinking tirades like yours that make me >want to unsubscribe from this list and throw my classic computers in the >dumpster just so I would no longer have to count myself among your company. I'd be glad to pay shipping... Do you have a web page describing what you're giving away? :-) Me? I find myself defending Bill at every turn, and that has nothing to do with sending him/you thousands of dollars a year. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

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Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

MS bashing in a MODERN context is off-topic, yes, but saying how BASIC for the Altair was bloated certainly is the best of both worlds IMHO. But to go even further back, was there any IBM-bashing before the 80's? >I'd like to see less Microsoft bashing in my inbox; I'm on this list for >the discussion of classic computers, NOT the benefits of Linux vs Windows, >NOR the arguments about HTML. If the FAQ/guidelines for the mailing list >say NO HTML, thats all there need be said... "read the FAQ". Please, lets >cut down the traffic on these subjects and get back to the things we all >enjoy discussing!!! >A > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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sord m5 files

by cechy＠jitel.cz

Have anybody some Sord M5 related files ? ( manuals etc.). I have all this in paper version and electronic kind of this is practical. I need Sord m5 FD drive files- floppy disk with system utilities and docs about this all. Donor of this things will be first where I send SW emulator of this comp. for PC. Thank you ... -- S pozdravem ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jiri Cechmeister - TOPCAD, Electronic and Software Development Demlova 4, 58601 JIHLAVA, CZ, phone /fax : +420 66 31051 http://www.topcad.anet.cz , e-mail: cechy(a)jitel.cz ----------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 1 month

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Apple 1 at Fry's!

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:50 PM 3/16/98 -0600, you wrote: >For those in Silicon Valley who haven't been to the new Fry's in >Sunnyvale: go check out CHAC's Apple 1 on display. Unlike the gaudy Mayan >and Aztec themes of some other recent Fry's, this one has sort of an art >deco theme with large posters of HP35s, Xerox Altos, and other machines >worthy of worship. Nah, don't need to. Had it in my living room for a night a couple of years ago. 8^) (Well, actually, it was all packaged for transport and I didn't dare open it up, so maybe I will...) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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Robots again

by adam＠merlin.net.au

>"We are a lot closer to being able to create an artificial human than we >are to being able to comprehend the consequences of creating an >artificial human." > >I realise that this is not *directly* about +10 year old computer systems, >but it does directly relate to the them and their role in the history of >this field (which is what I originally asked the list about). Does anyone >on the list want to take it outside to a temporary list to discuss the >moral/ethical/probability issues of artificial life? Let me know by >email and I'll set one up. If you choose to set one up, this is what my thesis is all about - the moral status of such AI systems should they ever be created. :) Adam.

28 years, 1 month

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What's with the raw HTML?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:23 PM 3/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >need for a company to have a fancy letterhead, nor a mass mailer to have >colored brochures, nor ladies to have flowered and/or scented stationery, >yet we do have all these things, and more. Consider how boring text-only, Note that for most of these, there is no difference to the recipient. It doesn't take any longer to open a color brochure than one in black and white, logos don't take up any more space than the text, etc. In terms of e-mail, it's completely different. Those logos do take up space, color stuff does take longer to download. (And btw, there are a lot of people who are very allergic to the scented ads included with Macy's bills, and even a fair number of us who just get nauseated.) >not trivial point. Nevertheless, technology marches on, and as cable modems >(or whatever) become the norm rather than the exception, "waste" of Really? As of last fall, 80% of americans accessed the net at 14.4Kbps or less. (According to a speaker at the Bay Area Internet Users Group.) Add in the rest of the world and that goes way down. Damn yanks, always thinking nobody else matters! >public at large. If my wife wants to embed scanned newspaper clippings or a >kid's picture in an email to her cousin across country, who am I (or anyone) >to object? That's a different matter. If I send an e-mail to a potential client touting my services, that's one thing. To send a message selling used golf balls to every e-mail address I can find, that's spam. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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What's with the raw HTML?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 03:20 PM 3/15/98 +0000, you wrote: >All too often, formatting, multiple fonts, embedded pictures, colour, etc >are used as a replacement for content. I've got plenty of monospaced >documents with ascii-art diagrams that provide useful information, and an >equal number of nicely formatted documents with pictures that contain no >information at all. Substitute "web pages" for "documents" and it would be just as true. If you can't communicate your meaning with plain text, you better go back and rethink what you're trying to say. Mind you, I don't expect everyone to be a Robert Frost or William Shakespeare, but you should be able to convey an idea in your native tongue. Email is meant for communicating. Me, I use Eudora. It dumps that sort of thing into a disk file in my download directory; periodically I go and clean it up. Mind you, I love the web, I think it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's simple, powerful, and really lets you do a lot without a lot of resources. (I've developed web pages on my portfolio, and view them regularly under DOS with Arachne.) But it's not intended for e-mail. Putting HTML in an e-mail message is like sending a video tape of yourself instead of a letter. It works, some people might prefer it, even need it, but for most people, what you've got to say isn't worth setting up a VCR/TV and sitting around to listen to you. If you really need e-mail in color with different size/font text, get yourself a subscription to penthouse. You'll be much happier in the long run. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS.

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:46 AM 3/14/98 -0800, you wrote: >> PS: NONE of this is trash! They actually USE all this stuff to test >> equipment! > >I am always amazed when you express amazement that computers that aren't >brand new are being used to do useful stuff :-). Ten, twenty, and >thirty-year old computers are used to run everything from gas chromotagraphy >units to MRI's, subway systems, factories, and cyclotrons, and some of us >make at least a part of our living ensuring that they continue to do the job. I'm currently working with Long's Drugs, a chain of pharmacies (up to 352 this week!) in the western US. About 15 years ago or so, they put an HP3000 in each store to manage the pharmacy systems. They're still there. Most of the stores are micro3000's (mid 80's?) but there are still some series 42 and 40 machines out there. (I used to have a list of what was at each store somehwere.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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Apple 1 at Fry's!

by engine＠chac.org

At 23:50 3/16/98 -0600, you wrote: >For those in Silicon Valley who haven't been to the new Fry's in >Sunnyvale: go check out CHAC's Apple 1 on display.... It's a lot prettier in that armorglass pyramid in the Books section than it was in a brown cardboard box in my bedroom closet ;-) __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 1 month

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Sun 3/50 up on Ebay

by aaron＠wfi-inc.com

Hi all, If anyone's interested, I put a great 3/50 up on Ebay today. I ran out of room for it (19" mono monitor). No disk, since I was using it as an X terminal, 12M ram upgrade,flat-top (not the dimple monitor-mount style). If you want, I'll give you a dimple top model with bad video in the package. I forgot to get the item number and all that, but there can't be too many 3/50's up for auction right now, eh? Regards, Aaron

28 years, 1 month

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NS 57109?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Anybody got info on a Nat. Semi. 57109 "Number Oriented Processor"? <I've got one on a "calculator interface" board, that I suspect was <a primitive math coprocessor. I'd love to get specs on it, and/or It was a calculator chip I believed based on the 4bit cop series. It's been a long time. Anyhow the board used a calculator chip despite it's slowness to avoid higher math (to 8 digits) in software. It was however not a coprocessor, it is a limited slave at best. <replacement chips in case this one dies. You might get lucky... Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

What's wrong with COBOL? > >Well, according to the Jargon File (aka The Hacker's Dictionary), IBM >minis and mainframes were not liked by hackers (who prefered DEC, etc), >not only because they were generally programmed in things like Cobol, but >also because technical info was next-to-impossible to obtain. It was >difficult to do neat things with them. > >I don't know if that counts as IBM bashing or not. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....

by david＠mather.com

----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> >I would say that 8kbasic was the first decent software product from MS >though it was soon to change in the early 80s. > >FYI the Extended BASIC interpreter for CP/M-80 and the BASCOM Compiler >for CP/M-80 were excellent products. Neither were bloatware by any >standard. Quite right. Early MS products were extremely good quality software, particularly compared to their competitors at the time. Tight, largely bug-free and with well thought-out interfaces (exclude Multiplan, but highlight MS Decathlon). Pity they couldn't (or wouldn't) keep up the good work. Does the demise of quality stem from the departure of Paul Allen? I don't know when he left MS. David "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me." A. A. Milne Winnie-the-Pooh, Ch. 4

28 years, 1 month

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What's with the raw HTML?

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Given that a fair number of us are probably reading this on dumb terminals, HTML and MIME are as out-of-place as binaries. It strikes me that the mail/HTML thing indicates something about attitudes, and I'm genuinely surprised that anyone on this list would push for HTML in e-mail. The wintel PC world thrives on style over substance; glitz rather than content. It sells to the mass market that doesn't know any better and never will. If you have nothing to say, you better say it loudly or no-one will listen. The spirit of so many of these old machines was the delicate balance between expressiveness and resource usage. As admirers of that, shouldn't we, of all people, prefer plain text whenever it suffices? Put only plain text in my mailbox, please. I'll be quite happy to visit your pictures and HTML on the web. (URL's _are_ plain text!) Bill.

28 years, 1 month

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mac drive available

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

Ive got an aftermarket mac external 800k drive if anyone wants it. it wont read a disk even after cleaning. its about the same size but a bit heavier than the 400k mac drive. otherwise it's gonna get round filed. david

28 years, 1 month

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Superbrain Schematics available

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

I've just been offered a "1 foot by 2 foot" manual schematic and technical repair manual set for the Superbrain computer. The guy imported it from Intertcech, he said. On its way to me now, I'm just letting people on the list know of its availability. Cheers A

28 years, 1 month

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Update on Sun3 and shoebox

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Sun, 15 Mar 1998 20:56:58 -0500 (EST), J. Maynard Gelinas <jmg(a)iac.net> wrote: {big snip about b st(0,4,0)} I did try setting the tape to both ID=4 and ID=6, both with the same results. And, no, when I created the install tape, I did not use the "osync" parameter. More to come... Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 1 month

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Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>> > Oh, CDC...Computer Dinosaur Corporation... >> >> And one I coined after I'd been given the price for some trivial spare >> part (a light bulb, I think) for a PDP11.. >> >> DEC - Darn Expensive Components :-) > >And most of the Unibus PDP-11's delivered in the 70's and early 80's had >cabinet trim and/or front panel color scheme as "Purple/Magenta", leading >to: > >PDP=Purple Data Processor IBM=Intern-run Brainless Corporation (But not any more!)

28 years, 1 month

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Bay Area Computer History Perspectives

by sethm＠loomcom.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 733 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980316/7f2101fe/at…

28 years, 1 month

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Arrrgh! (now I would like a...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I still want a Cyber, however (any other 180s being decommissioned <lately?). Personally I'd love to find a Cincinati Millicron CM2000, 2100 or 2200. I haven't seen one in about 25 years. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Re.: HD jumper settings

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Thanks Don/David. Maxtor must have posted those settings after I looked about 2 months ago. All that they had at the time was the geometry information. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 1 month

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