- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by mor＠crl.com

Gone are three 486 clones that have been languishing in my garage for nearly a year. They were traded for: an Apple Lisa 2, an Osborne Executive, and a Northstar Horizon. The Lisa and Osborne have boot disks and other software, and so far seem to work well. I also got a Profile hard drive with the Lisa, but I haven't tried to hook it up yet... I haven't messed with the Horizon at all, but it looks to be in good shape, with CPU, ram, disk and i/o cards installed, along with a couple of diskettes in the drives that might boot it, not sure yet. I'll holler for help if this gives me trouble whenever I get to it, though I do have huge collection of manuals for it that I had picked up in anticipation of this day ;) Additionally, the guy I got all this stuff from tossed in about a dozen cartridges for the TI-99 and Coco3 that I didn't already have. Happy happy joy joy. -- mor(a)crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/

28 years, 3 months

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Bulk erased SyQuest carts WAS: Re: DING DING!

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:04 PM 3/18/98 -0800, you wrote: >The SyJet is very nice, but runs VERY Hot. Mine is warm, but definitely not what I'd call hot. >guess would be the Publishing industry still uses them quite a bit since >it's usually in Mac catalogs and stores I see the carts for sale. Of About 10 years ago, I too invested heavily in 44mb Syquest carts. The reason I did, is because one of my clients at the time (a major graphics arts firm (logos for the Olympics, Microslut, etc.)) was buying them the way most high-tech companies buy diskettes: buy a couple of cases of them and put them on the shelf for employees to come and grab a handful. And they *used* them. All day long, and often all night too. The syquests were also very popular with the Atari ST crowd too. Somewhere around here (in *that* pile, I think) is an Atari branded cartridge. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 3 months

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Heinz Nixdorf

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"James Redin" <jredin(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > I've found that the ANITA from Sumlock Comptometer of England (1963) is > usually regarded as the first electronic calculator [1]. However, recently > I found an article about Heinz Nixdorf of Germany in the LEXICON's History > of Computing (CD-ROM) which indicates that he built several models of > electronic calculators back in 1954 (Models ES12 and ES24). At the risk of suggesting the obvious, have you contacted the Heinz Nixdorf Museumforum? They have a web site at http://www.hnf.de/ and one of the pages contains a list of contact addresses. However, you will either need to read German or have good luck with the translator at http://www.altavista.digital.com/ (which is of limited use on HNF's site because some of the text is embedded in images). -Frank McConnell

28 years, 3 months

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Irreverence to irrelevance

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 04:14 AM 3/21/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Benjamin M Coakley wrote: > >> Speaking of which, there's an HP41C at a thrift store near me. Anyone >> want it? Is it at all interesting? > >It's only the best calculator ever made. Grab it quick, you won't regret >it. It's programmable, can be expanded with RAM and ROM cartridges, and >there's a whole bunch of cool little peripherals you can hook up to it. >And I think it even does arithmetic. Only Reverse Polish Arithmetic! :-) Joe

28 years, 3 months

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oddball find PS/2-50

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

all 80286 ps2 models ran at 10mhz. wait states differed. david In a message dated 98-03-21 13:42:20 EST, you write: << <Let me think... The 286 chip was available in 10MHz and 12MHz IIRC, mayb <another speed too. I can't remember which speed the 50/50Z was. The installed chips are 10mhz but that does not mean it ran that fast. <Don't you love the way the case comes apart, and that little tool <underneath the speaker to help take the rest of it apart? Defintley my They do come apart nice. But everything is oddball compared to the rest of my systems (s100, CPM and DEC based). Allison >>

28 years, 3 months

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Personal Communications/3270

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-03-21 12:45:44 EST, you write: << Someone was throwing away a box of five shrinkwrapped ones like this. I grabbed one and opened it, the rest I gently obsucred but they might be gone. As I understand, this is an emulator for a 3270 terminal. Is it of any use to me without a System/370? Also, there was a box with four or five shrinkwrapped apckages of IBM DOS 3.30. Assuming anything is still there, does anyone want any of this? >> i might have something similar. i was given 5 shrinkwrap copies of ibm pc 3270 emulation program version 1.22 i opened one to see what it's like and the rest are upopened. not much use though. i wouldnt mind a never opened package of dos3.3 to add to my collection of never-used ibm software. david

28 years, 3 months

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oddball find PS/2-50

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-03-21 12:30:13 EST, you write: << Personally, I dislike PS/2s because they are almost impossible to upgrade due to the weird specs. But, there was a time when I would do almost anything for one. By the way, I found two weird systems at my school. One is the "Writing System" which looks like a PS/2, and we have a bunch of "Eduquest" systems, which are now all in the supply room. >> ps2 models arent really that hard to upgrade. the difficulty only comes when someone attempts to upgrade it way beyond its capabilites. certain 95xx models have used dx4/100 cpu also. eduquest systems are/were one piece mac-like systems designed for school use. proprietary design, but so easy to work on. some even had dos in rom. david

28 years, 3 months

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Wanted: Apple ][ Card Info

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-03-21 11:33:13 EST, you write: << OK... could it allow for me to write in C? (Or any other languages in particular) What are the chances of finding another 64K RAM upgrade to boost it to the max 128KB? Thanks again, >> there were certain 128k ram cards for the ][+ and similar but i dont think programs could use the extra memory. early versions of appleworks could be patched to use it and dos 3.3 could use the mem as a virtual disk. the pocket rocket's memory cannot be upgraded.

28 years, 3 months

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Calculators was Re: Delay lines

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 01:21 AM 3/21/98 -0600, you wrote: > >I know people collect calculators, but I just can't imagine how it can >bring the same kind of satisfaction as computer collecting. You can't >really hack a calculator. They don't lend themselves very well to >restoration efforts. They can't do many tricks. And few of them have any >sort of personality Have you ever tried a HP 41? How does up to 961 external devices of nearly every descrptions grab you? That's just one of the capabilities of the HP-41 using the HP-IL interface. I currently have a 41 running a HP logic analyzer! (OK, I'll admit that HP tries pretty hard in this >area). They did a good job too :-) > >Has anybody ventured a definition of computer that allows us to weed out >mere calculators? How about: > >* must be programmable >* must be general purpose >* must have alphanumeric input capabilites >* must have alphanumeric display capabilites The HP-41, 71, 75 and all the newer ones fit this description. > >Unfortunately, this would mean that an Altair isn't a computer until you >add a terminal, but it keeps those pesky HP-65's out of the group. > >-- Doug Joe

28 years, 3 months

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[Regional - Bay Area] Computer History Talk

by sethm＠loomcom.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4485 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980321/864148d2/at…

28 years, 3 months

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Delay lines

by jredin＠earthlink.net

I'm new to the list and missed the original posting about the Friden delay line. Can somebody forward to me the messages that have been crossed in regards to the Friden calculator or tell me where can I search for old postings? Thanks! James Redin ---------- > From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Delay lines > Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 11:27 PM > > > <Exactly. In the particular case of the Friden it was called a supersonic > <delay line, although I've never been sure why. > > acoustic delay lines, they propagate bits translated to mechanical > impulses at the speed of sound in a solid. The resulting delay is > long enough to use ans a shift register to store bits. > > Allison >

28 years, 3 months

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C= 1084

by maynard＠jmg.com

Hmmm, The Goodwill pickings were bad. I only found one C128 and two 1571 drives, plus a 1084 composite monitor. The store manager wanted $25 for _each_ item ($100 total?? BAH!). The C128 had several broken keys, the Disk drives looked in pretty bad shape, so the only thing of interest was the monitor. I took it. I also got some cables: a TTL RGB cablefor the 128, A standard "monitor" cable and what looks to be a drive cable (hey, they were willing to bundle it in for me). So, the question is: can I use the 'split' composite cable for a C64 with an Atari 800? By 'split' I refer to split chroma and intensity signals... I know that the 1084 monitor can handle this, and I know that the Atari outputs this format just like a C=64, but I _don't_ know if the pinouts are the same between the two. Can anyone help? Thanks! J. Maynard Gelinas

28 years, 3 months

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Harvard Graphics 2.01

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Sorry to go on and on about PC stuff, but I do need help. I got a copy of Harvard Graphics 2.01 for DOS. I'm not sure if it was my fault or not, but I damaged Program Disk 1. Scandisk reports that cluster 0 is damaged and the disk cannot be fixed. I can view the directory of the disk (5.25"), but the files are inaccessible. Could someone either tell me how to fix this disk or send me another one? (diskimages would do_) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

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oddball find PS/2-50

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Let me think... The 286 chip was available in 10MHz and 12MHz IIRC, mayb <another speed too. I can't remember which speed the 50/50Z was. The installed chips are 10mhz but that does not mean it ran that fast. <Don't you love the way the case comes apart, and that little tool <underneath the speaker to help take the rest of it apart? Defintley my They do come apart nice. But everything is oddball compared to the rest of my systems (s100, CPM and DEC based). Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Heinz Nixdorf

by jredin＠earthlink.net

Hello Frank, > maybe the definitions of computer/calculator are not exact; the Mk8 is > stated as "first electronic desktop calculator" in > "Bueromaschinen-Kompass", an annual handbook giving an overview on the > market. > I guess, what quilifies the Anita is the fact that it used Nixie-tubes for > displaying the results. A book, written 1960, titled "Electronic > number-calculators" describes the display of results as the largest > problem, the author had no idea of a practical solution (but describes > every other technology used these days: core-Memory, delay-lines, tubes, > even diodes and transistors). > Regards, > Frank Boehm Yesterday I subscribed to a new list (Discussion re-collecting of classic computers) hoping to get more info on the Nixdorf machines. The first messages that came across were an ongoing discussion on the boundaries between calculators and computers. It was very interesting for me. One of the entries stated: "Granted, these points are primarily moot, for the definition of a computer as to be used on this list would need to be defined by Mr. Bill Whitson, the (still) owner of this list. >* must be programmable >* must be general purpose >* must have alphanumeric input capabilities >* must have alphanumeric display capabilities." Of course many current calculators would be considered computers under these terms, however, we need to consider the context or frame of reference for this definition. The list is oriented to "Classic computers" and therefore the boundaries are relevant to the early computer/calculator technology. On the other hand, the fact that the ANITA would qualify for the first electronic calculator because it was the first one with Nixie-tubes display is not very clear either. Remember that the first pocket calculator, the "Cal-Tech" from TI and its off-spring the Canon "Pocketronic" used a thermal printer to display the results. I would say that the terms above stated leads to a clear cut between Computers/Calculators. Now the real question should be: Does anybody know if the ES 12 and ES 24 electronic calculators developed by Nixdorf in 1953, were programmable and/or had alphanumeric input/display capabilities? Regards, James Redin http://www.dotpoint.com/xnumber

28 years, 3 months

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oddball find PS/2-50

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The Family One, PS/1, PS/2, etc. Ref disks are available at: Each one has a refdisk with it. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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please ID this card! [correct URL this time]

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

Pictures are worth 1000 words - my earlier text post didn't elicit any responses... maybe one of you can ID this board (or more particularly, the type of system) from the pictures. Two pics available; large and small. The connector shows the single "pin" on this side, and multiple separate pins on the reverse. http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/boardbig.jpg [250K] http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/boardsmall.jpg [95K] Betcha can't! A Apologies for the earlier post with the incorrect URL - don't you wish, sometimes, that you could send a chase-up email to kill your earlier one?!!

28 years, 3 months

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Personal Communications/3270

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Someone was throwing away a box of five shrinkwrapped ones like this. I grabbed one and opened it, the rest I gently obsucred but they might be gone. As I understand, this is an emulator for a 3270 terminal. Is it of any use to me without a System/370? Also, there was a box with four or five shrinkwrapped apckages of IBM DOS 3.30. Assuming anything is still there, does anyone want any of this? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

2
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oddball find PS/2-50

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Personally, I dislike PS/2s because they are almost impossible to upgrade due to the weird specs. But, there was a time when I would do almost anything for one. By the way, I found two weird systems at my school. One is the "Writing System" which looks like a PS/2, and we have a bunch of "Eduquest" systems, which are now all in the supply room. >they can serve as spares for the rest of my systems. That and I'm not >really into collecting PCs. > >Allison > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

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oddball find PS/2-50

by allisonp＠world.std.com

I was just aquired two PS/2 model 50s. Normally I don't collect older PC system but they are interesting.

28 years, 3 months

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oddball find PS/2-50

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Depends. My 50Z has an ESDI drive(and IIRC they shipped with that, too), <but any PS/2 drive with that connetor should work. What it is is that IB <added an HD controller to the HD's main board, so that connector is an MC <interface. No the drive only has one board. That plugs into the board in the mca bus. looks like the drive has minimal electronics on it and the board in the mca is the edsi or mfm controller. <no FD/HD/RAM. I'm thinking of using one as a terminal or something, putti <in an ethernet card with a boot ROM or something wierd like that. The oth One has a ni card, single BNC so I suspect eithernet. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Delay lines

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<>* must be programmable This would exclude many millions of MCUs based on chips like 8048, 8051, z80, I960, 80186/8, and several dozen more in embedded applications like engine control, navigation, aircraft flyby wire systems or even some calcs. This would include PDP-8s, pdp-11s and whatever else burried in CNCs, MRIs and transportation control systems. <>* must be general purpose In the above cases the computer or microcomputer is running a dedicated application from ROM or loaded from other media on power up. So they are not general purpose in that case. Would this eliminate the PDP-8s used by BART as computers? <>* must have alphanumeric input capabilites See above cases again consider the possible range of inputs. The input could be barcode reader, thermal or position sensors or off a network from other computers. <>* must have alphanumeric display capabilites Consider the above and the possible outputs. The result may be generating engine spark timing, alarm output, opening a cuircit breaker, notifying another computer. Calculators as differentiated from mechanical adders, differentiated from fixed program computers. The difference can be the application more so than implementation. I tend to look to see if there is control or branching on condition to see if we are talking calc, programmable calc or more general computer. BUT by doing that do we have to look at the user interface level or the internal implmentation level? Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Wanted: Apple ][ Card Info

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

OK... could it allow for me to write in C? (Or any other languages in particular) What are the chances of finding another 64K RAM upgrade to boost it to the max 128KB? Thanks again, Tim D. Hotze >pocket rocket is applied engineering's equivalent to apple's language card. >it's very small, and doesnt require a cable to the motherboard like earlier >models did. > >david

28 years, 3 months

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Just wondering

by CharlesII＠nwonline.net

I remember reading a Byte article that told how to build a computer that used a variant of the Z80 by Hatichi (I think that's how you spell it). The computer was about the size of a lunch box. Apparently I have misplaced that particular issue an was wondering if any one had it and was willing to tell me where I could find the printed circuit board and the boot disks or at least send me the art work and the parts list for this particular beast.

28 years, 3 months

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oddball find PS/2-50

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-20 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :I was just aquired two PS/2 model 50s. Normally I don't collect :older PC system but they are interesting. hmm. that resolves one question - if you've asked this, allison, then we must be safe to ask something along the same lines... a few weeks ago now, we picked up an ncr 286 machine with colour monitor and wonderful keyboard. model number is not obvious, but the case is flat, about 2" high (the height of a half-height disk drive) and about the size of a small paving slab; internally, the machine is very odd, with a backplane architecture, two daughterboards mounted on two boards in that backplane, and *no* expansion capacity (no free slots). sayeth the computer that it is a "class 3278 model 0129" machine. our question: it says on boot-up that it is "running at low speed", which is 6MHz - how do we get it to run a high speed? there is a switch on the lower main board that does apparently nothing, and a jumper next to it. we can't get further into the machine as we don't have the screwdriver... (it looks like a philips' head, but the slots are too small. what do we need?) or is it software switched? -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 3 months

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please ID this card!

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

Pictures are worth 1000 words - my earlier text post didn't elicit any responses... maybe one of you can ID this board (or more particularly, the type of system) from the pictures. Two pics available; large and small. The connector shows the single "pin" on this side, and multiple separate pins on the reverse. http://www.comcen.com.au/~weird/boardbig.jpg [250K] http://www.comcen.com.au/~weird/boardsmall.jpg [95K] Betcha can't! A

28 years, 3 months

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Bill a TRS-80 fan? (Was More List Operation Stuff)

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-19 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :Question: :Is Bill using a TRS-80 here? I think I see 64 cols per line :formatting, hmmmmmmmmmm........... or alternatively, he could have a block editor running under forth and be posting from there... ;> -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 3 months

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Irreverence to irrelevance

by COAKLEY＠AC.GRIN.EDU

> > But the calculator collectors have their own lists, don't they? > > True... I'm not thinking of spamming this list with pocket calculator > questions or anything like that. I'd just not object to the odd thread on > them, particularly if they were historically significant (the HP9100...), > technically interesting, or whatever. Speaking of which, there's an HP41C at a thrift store near me. Anyone want it? Is it at all interesting? (Sorry, Allison. I thought my last message was going to the list, and not to you privately.) -- Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley(a)ac.grin.edu Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH Wow, this is global. -Mtn Goats

28 years, 3 months

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Amiga A1060 SideCar

by ds_spenc＠alcor.concordia.ca

I finally got around to archiving what ROMs I could find in my old SideCar, and I have a few questions. I know the comp.sys.amiga.hardware would probably be a better place to ask, but I'm going to ask here anyway. :) [The SideCar, for those that don't know, is basically an XT clone that attaches to the side of an Amiga 1000, whos display normally appears in a window or on a separate 'screen' on the Amiga display.] I didn't completely disassemble the SideCar, I only took the cover off and poked around a little. I got my SideCar 'third-hand' and never had the manual for it. I never played with the dip switches or jumpers in it. Does anyone know what all the dip switches are for? There's a bank of eight of them, and another of four. Currently the 8 are: OFF, ON, ON, OFF, ON, OFF, OFF, ON. The set of 4 are all OFF. I checked through memory with DEBUG and located the BIOS code as well as the stuff the Amiga sends to the PC side via the dual-port RAM. I don't know how big the BIOS is supposed to be. It looks like it's in two chunks, of about 4K and 8K. The first section of this code lies at F4000 and goes to about F4Cxx, followed by a bunch of FF's, then at F6000 is a solid 8K chunk of code, including copyright messages from Commodore Electronics Ltd. and Phoenix Software Associates Ltd. Would all of this be in a 16K chunk in the EPROM at location U22 on the motherboard? It's a 48-pin EPROM with a sticker on it that reads "380619-02" and "Hydra BIOS 2.05". Under the daughterboard and the hard drive (I replaced the floppy drive with an ST-296N in 1991 or so) where I couldn't really see very well, were at least two other 48-pin chips, at U39 and U40. The only number I could see was "8621" on the one at position U40. I know that's not a lot of information, but does anyone know what those are? I'm just interested in how the SideCar performs its magic. I looked into the RAM area from E0000-F3FFF which is the shared RAM, and I was surprised to see some stuff in there from the Amiga side that I don't think should have been there. After the PC.boot file stuff that was loaded into the PC side by the Amiga at startup, there was the "info" program from the Amiga shell. Executing something else on the Amiga side cleared that area out, and executing "info" again (from ARP 1.3, not the real AmigaDOS) put the info code back in there. Also, some filenames from directories on the Amiga side showed up in there. What's going on? The SideCar controls the hard drive for the Amiga. Does the Amiga get the data from the HD through this memory area? I've never been able to get AREAD/AWRITE to function. They always GURU. I got the files from a BridgeBoard distribution... do I need special ones for the SideCar? Now, the main reason I actually opened the SideCar up: I installed a Seagate SL-02 SCSI controller when I installed the hard drive. It conflicted with the floppy controller in the SideCar, and in order to have floppies and hard drive running at the same time, I had to disable the floppy controller on the SCSI card. I did this by putting masking tape over each pin on the card in turn, booting up the Amiga and the PC side, and recording the results. I eventually decided, from these results, to tape over 7 of the pins on the SCSI controller card, and this has worked perfectly since. I don't know how the pins are numbered, but below is an ASCII graphic representation. :) The 5th, 6th, 10th, 18th, 19th, 22nd, and 26th pins are taped over, on the left hand side of the card, reading from front to back. xx x xx x x | ===============================| |o I hadn't recorded this anywhere, and I was a bit worried that the tape would be drying out and falling off and making my SideCar go crazy, but everything was OK. And now it's recorded somewhere. :) Oh, one other thing. The first part of the boot message is as follows: Commodore Hydra BIOS Rev. 2.05 - Test Release - Copyright (C) 1985 by Commodore Electronics Ltd. Copyright (C) 1984,1985 by Phoenix Software Associates Ltd. All Rights Reserved. The serial number is under 1000. I'm wondering how common the A1060 SideCar is, and if anyone has one that doesn't boot up with the "Test Release" message. The motherboard says: FAB 380517-01 Rev.4 ASSY NO. 380604-01 Rev.7 ?1986 COMMODORE SIDECAR MAINBOARD Are there earlier or later revisions out there? Doug Spence ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca

28 years, 3 months

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Now: Once again, whattheheckisa computer? (Was: Re: Delay lines)

by zmerch＠northernway.net

;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Doug Yowza typed: >On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Roger Merchberger wrote: > >> The absolute definition of a computer as I remember >> it goes thusly: >> >> "An instrument which can perform arithmatic and logical functions without >> the aid of a human." > >That's too ambiguous to me. All computers require the aid of a human at >some point. What's the diff if I pay Bill Gates to program mine or if I >work the slides on my slide rule? The difference is: there's no enter key on a slide rule. You can enter a program into a computer, and once it begins executing it may not require human interference until it has completed. If said program includes both arithmatic and logical functions between the pressing of the enter key and the output, it would fit the definition of a computer. >As for me, whenever I see little chicklet keys on a calculator, that's >enough for me to say it's not a computer :-) Ah, then you have an anti-Tandy bent, eh? For the chicklet keys on my CoCo1's preclude it from your definition??? ;-) (And, to continue along this nasty bend in the road, the membrane-only keyboards of the Timex Sinclair 1000 and Tandy's MC-10 make them akin to a microwave oven? ;-) I guess I see a lot more computers than you do! Just my $0.02USD ($0.026CDN), "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch(a)northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice.

28 years, 3 months

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Freedom!

by ds_spenc＠alcor.concordia.ca

Ahhh, finally I had a day that was free enough of other obligations that I could sit down and tinker with some of my old toys. The machines I played with today: Amiga 1000 with SideCar, Tandy 1000EX, Atari 800XL, Kaypro II and 2, TeleVideo TPC-I, 'A.M.A. LCD Portable' (286 luggable with LCD screen). I also had time to inspect a few pieces of junk I don't know anything about, that had been collecting dust on shelves. Anyway, it's great to have time to relax and tinker and post. I'll put specific comments and queries in appropriately titled messages. Doug Spence ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca

28 years, 3 months

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Delay lines

by engine＠chac.org

At 01:21 3/21/98 -0600, Doug wrote: >Has anybody ventured a definition of computer that allows us to weed out >mere calculators? How about: > >* must be programmable >* must be general purpose >* must have alphanumeric input capabilites >* must have alphanumeric display capabilites You can even throw in "must have stored-program memory" and, bingo, an HP9100 is a computer. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 3 months

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Now: Once again, whattheheckisa computer? (Was: Re: Delay lines)

by zmerch＠northernway.net

;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Doug Yowza typed: >On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Roger Merchberger wrote: > >> The absolute definition of a computer as I remember >> it goes thusly: >> >> "An instrument which can perform arithmatic and logical functions without >> the aid of a human." > >That's too ambiguous to me. All computers require the aid of a human at >some point. What's the diff if I pay Bill Gates to program mine or if I >work the slides on my slide rule? The difference is: there's no enter key on a slide rule. You can enter a program into a computer, and once it begins executing it may not require human interference until it has completed. If said program includes both arithmetic and logical functions between the pressing of the enter key and the output, it would fit the definition of a computer. >As for me, whenever I see little chicklet keys on a calculator, that's >enough for me to say it's not a computer :-) Ah, then you have an anti-Tandy bent, he? For the chicklet keys on my CoCo1's preclude it from your definition??? ;-) (And, to continue along this nasty bend in the road, the membrane-only keyboards of the Timex Sinclair 1000 and Tandy's MC-10 make them akin to a microwave oven? ;-) I guess I see a lot more computers than you do! Just my $0.02USD ($0.026CDN), "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch(a)northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice.

28 years, 3 months

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Delay lines

by jredin＠earthlink.net

Dear friends, I love computers indeed, but behind calculators are almost 400 years of history, so there is a lot of very interesting material to learn and research. Regards, James Redin http://www.dotpoint.com/xnumber The X-Number World of Calculators ---------- > From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Delay lines > Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 11:21 PM > > On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Kip Crosby wrote: > > > >> But the calculator collectors have their own lists, don't they? > > > > > >True... I'd just not object to the odd thread on [calculators] > > >particularly if they were historically significant (the HP9100...), > > >technically interesting, or whatever. > > > > Hear, hear! Especially since many so-called calculators were built by > > manufacturers not, for whatever reason, prepared to admit they were > > building computers -- with IBM and HP springing to mind at once. > > I know people collect calculators, but I just can't imagine how it can > bring the same kind of satisfaction as computer collecting. You can't > really hack a calculator. They don't lend themselves very well to > restoration efforts. They can't do many tricks. And few of them have any > sort of personality (OK, I'll admit that HP tries pretty hard in this > area). > > Has anybody ventured a definition of computer that allows us to weed out > mere calculators? How about: > > * must be programmable > * must be general purpose > * must have alphanumeric input capabilites > * must have alphanumeric display capabilites > > Unfortunately, this would mean that an Altair isn't a computer until you > add a terminal, but it keeps those pesky HP-65's out of the group. > > -- Doug >

28 years, 3 months

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Now: Once again, whattheheckisa computer? (Was: Re: Delay lines)

by zmerch＠northernway.net

;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Doug Yowza typed: >I know people collect calculators, but I just can't imagine how it can >bring the same kind of satisfaction as computer collecting. You can't >really hack a calculator. They don't lend themselves very well to >restoration efforts. They can't do many tricks. And few of them have any >sort of personality (OK, I'll admit that HP tries pretty hard in this >area). Uh, and what about that "grey area" of programmable calcs? Not only do they have personality... 1) my trusty Casio programmable calc of 12 years ago that started me thru college, may it R.I.P. is wholly program code compatible with my new(er) 9700 (icon-based screen, 32K RAM)... 2) The TI-59 had not only magnetic card storage, but also a ROM-card library, (at least) one of which was a ROM of games... including an interesting football simulation. but in most (if not all) definitions of a computer, they fit. >Has anybody ventured a definition of computer that allows us to weed out >mere calculators? How about: Why? As you seem to be less interested in calcs, it seems many on this list may be as interested, and if they do fit the definition of a computer, why can't they be included? The absolute definition of a computer as I remember it goes thusly: "An instrument which can perform arithmatic and logical functions without the aid of a human." Which to me would: exclude sliderules (tho the thread on here I found *very* interesting and enjoyed), include mechanical / analog computers, (to me) exclude basic / 4-function calcs (some folks think carrying & single-memory storage encompass logical functions... I disagree) include programmable calcs... (heavens, my Casio calc has more memory than my Tandy 200... Goodness!) Granted, these points are primarily moot, for the definition of a computer as to be used on this list would need to be defined by Mr. Bill Whitson, the (still) owner of this list. >* must be programmable >* must be general purpose >* must have alphanumeric input capabilites >* must have alphanumeric display capabilites My New Casio fits all these descriptions (but is not 10 years old), my old Casio fits all and is old too, and (with a slight stretch for input) so does my TI-59. >Unfortunately, this would mean that an Altair isn't a computer until you >add a terminal, but it keeps those pesky HP-65's out of the group. By your definition, adding a terminal to an altair would not turn it into a computer... for the computer is only performing I/O on an RS-232. The terminal is doing the displaying. To fit your definition, you would need to add a dedicated keyboard & video board to said Altair... So, you've successfully excluded Altairs, but included Casio calculators... Or is this just an HP vendetta???? :-) Just my (awkward) views... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch(a)northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice.

28 years, 3 months

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oddball find PS/2-50

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Because they are sufficiently off the path of my interests I may trade both of them off. They look pretty neat but, I have no spares and they can serve as spares for the rest of my systems. That and I'm not really into collecting PCs. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Delay lines

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Exactly. In the particular case of the Friden it was called a supersonic <delay line, although I've never been sure why. acoustic delay lines, they propagate bits translated to mechanical impulses at the speed of sound in a solid. The resulting delay is long enough to use ans a shift register to store bits. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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information

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

> Videotext never really caught on in the US except on cable TV as a > non-interactive display. I believe there are still a few videotext services > piggybacking on satellite channels. They transmit on one of the unused scan > lines at the top of the picture, similar to closed captioning for the deaf. > > To my knowledge the only truly successful videotext implementation > was the french minitel telephone directory. data piggy-backed on TV signals, using several lines in the blanking interval, is called viewdata. data presented in the same screen format as viewdata, but interactively, over a phone line, is called videotext. Collectively, videotex = videotext + viewdata. The original standards were for 25 lines of 40 columns, in 8 colours. Characters can have attributes like "flashing" or "hidden" (for quizzes), and there are rudimentary graphics using a 2x6 mosaic pattern in each character cell. There are several not-quite-compatible viewdata standards, some of which offer much higher resolution and colour range (the German Bilschirmtext system BTX does this). AFAIK, all the videotext systesm, at least in Europe, are the same, and the BBC and UK independent TV companies all use it for news, programme listings, etc, as do a lot of the european satellite TV channels. UK's PRESTEL, Germany's BTX, France's Minitel, all use slightly different forms. Lots of UK travel agents use a private PRESTEL-compatible system, and at least a couple of banks and building societies here use the same standard for home banking. A few UK bulletin boards used to use the same format, and I think one or two still do, for nostalgic reasons. You can get two or three host systems to run on machines like BBC Micros. There's a web page somewhere devoted to this old stuff, but I can't remember the URL (if anyone really wants it, I'll look). There are BTX and Minitel emulators for X-windows, and I have a PRESTEL terminal emulator package for X-windows (works well but still needs a bit of tidying up) which AFAIK is the only free PRESTEL-compatible one for unix systems. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 3 months

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Northstar S100 compatability

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Now I'm going to consider voltage wrt the machine ground i.e. the bottom <of the transformer winding, not the tap. Also on NS* there is an option to not make the metal chassis DC grond to the logic. So ground must be the backplane ground. I suspect Tony has a possible solution, miswiring of the secondary. <I don't know where you are in the UK (can I conclude from your machine <name that you are near Peterborough?), but if you think I can be of any <help, please e-mail me. I have some generic S100 docs (although nothing <N* specific - if you get anything, I'd be interested in seeing it), and a I have a full set of NS* docs but I happen to be on the wrong side of the pond. The PS schematic is pretty trivial. Tony had the design of the +/- 16v correct. If you open the power supply up to see the transformer leads 2,3 and 6 are conneted to ground and common. For the +/-16 leads 5 and 7 go to the bridge rectifier. For the +8 leads 1 and 4 go to the really big diodes mounted on the L-shaped bracket. The 8900uf cap should have -16 to -22v across it and the 11000uf cap +16 to 22v. The largest 180,000uf cap should have +8-10v. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Time/Date stamper

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I remember hearing a trick about soaking a printer ribbon with WD-40 to revive it. YMMV of course. david In a message dated 98-03-20 20:03:00 EST, you write: << I recently picked up a time/date stamper from the trash. It is a box with a slot, and when a paper is inserted, the paper is stamped. The first year on the stamping drum is 1951, so I assume that's when it was made. It uses a cloth ribbon for ink. How do I reink it? Also, the stamping has impressed the numbers into the rubber platen. How do I get rid of that? >>

28 years, 3 months

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Heinz Nixdorf

by jredin＠earthlink.net

Dear friends, I'm recollecting information for an article I will write about the transition of electro-mechanical calculators to electronic calculators during the 60's. I've found that the ANITA from Sumlock Comptometer of England (1963) is usually regarded as the first electronic calculator [1]. However, recently I found an article about Heinz Nixdorf of Germany in the LEXICON's History of Computing (CD-ROM) which indicates that he built several models of electronic calculators back in 1954 (Models ES12 and ES24). I haven't been able to obtain more information on these calculators. I suppose this is because Nixdorf moved soon onto the computers technology (eventually joining with Siemens). As a reference, I posted a copy of the Nixdorf article in my web site at the following address: http://www.dotpoint.com/xnumber/chistory.htm Information about the Anita can be found at: http://www.dotpoint.com/xnumber SECTION: VINTAGE CALCULATORS --> ELECTRONIC --> ALBUM --> Anita Any information on this subject will be appreciated. Regards, James Redin ----------------------- [1] Bruce Flamm, "The World's First Electronic Calculator - Who Made It?" The International Calculator Collector - Fall 1996, Issue #14.

28 years, 3 months

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Time/Date stamper

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I recently picked up a time/date stamper from the trash. It is a box with a slot, and when a paper is inserted, the paper is stamped. The first year on the stamping drum is 1951, so I assume that's when it was made. It uses a cloth ribbon for ink. How do I reink it? Also, the stamping has impressed the numbers into the rubber platen. How do I get rid of that? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

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Apple - PC

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<the trackstar was made years ago in the late 1980s. in fact, radio shack <to have it in the catalog for sale! you might want to check out ebay.com <they did have some of these cards for ~$20 about two months ago. it's a f <length isa card that you plug a standard disk ][ into. dont know about vi <though. supposedly they were quite compatible and one could run just abou <anything on that card. I have one of these. A Diamond Trackstar 128k, has two 65c02s and 128k of ram. It can use the standard 360k drives and the apple ones as well. What I don't have for it is the software. Looks really neat and useful. I don't know if it would work in anything later than an XTclass machine and without software it's hard to determine that. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Northstar S100 compatability

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Now that's where an IMSAI front panel really paid off. You put <in the card, stored an FF in the first location, the panel <display show EF instead...bingo, the RAM on D4 is bad (or more <likely a bent pin or upside down in socket). Or run NSdos and use the ramtest program. Another solution is load a monitor into known memory and fill ram with 00 or ffh to detect stuck bits. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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OK, Time to make an attempt at ending this...

by jfoust＠threedee.com

"Daniel A. Seagraves" <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com> wrote: >BTW, That's *NOT* a mail bomb. He asked for it. I've been ^Qing thru all >that crap all morning, and I'm sick of it. He wasted a lot of my time, so >I'll waste a few of his. Besides, it's only about... *clicky click* 39 meg. Daniel, mail bombs, real or implied, are a childish act. They accomplish nothing except annoyance and can cause loss of other important mail by any user on the involved systems. It's as effective as insulting your computer when your program has a bug. I thought the public posting of private messages was quite egregious, too, but Daniel didn't do that. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 3 months

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Northstar S100 compatability

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: Simon Coombs <simon(a)nenevr.demon.co.uk> <Subject: Northstar S100 compatability <Does anyone have any idea what sort of RAM cards the Horizon likes to <play with? My system already has an (albeit flakey) RAM-16 card, and I <have the remains of an old Godbout Econoram-II card, sans about half its <chips. I have *no* idea whether this card was ever used with the N*. Ram16 or ram17, any 8k/16k/64k static ram cards all work and may of the dynmaic ram cards that have local (on card refresh). The NS* was pretty clean so most memory bords worked well. The econoram-11 and the ram16 both work. The ram16 should be easy to fix it's static and uses 2kx8 parts. <retired gracefully. I think that the PSU could do with some adjustment, <too; if anyone in the UK has schematics for any of these bits, and would Northstar* PSU requires adjustment???? The Horizon used three terminal FIXED REGULATORS. Unless you mean 120v/240v wiring of the mains transformer. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Videotext

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 07:43 21/03/98 +1100, you wrote: >When I talked to the designer of the Mattel videotext system, I was confused >and mentiioned this piggybacking on TV signals in the blank area, and he was >kinda amused that I would confuse videotext with TELEtext. Videotext had >dedicated phone numbers your system would ring up. Teletext was piggybacked >on TV signals. Yes, they are two different services. Here in Italy the Videotext service is called "VIDEOTEL" and works using the Teletel/Prestel standard with speed 75/1200 baud. The Teletext service broadcasted from RAI is called "TELEVIDEO":the signal is inserted in the TV frames and can be seen with a decoder. The informations are divided in pages (capacity abt. 990 per TV channel) regarding many topics: from weather forecasts to news, tv programs schedule, and other info that can be recalled with the remote control. Some broadcasters uses it as an economic "one way" data transmission (Telesoftware). With a special pc-board connected directly with the TV antenna, is possible to download files transmitted as multiple pages (E.G. the price updates for the the pharmacies). Ciao ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE ? ? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? ? Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? ? where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? ? e-mail=chemif(a)mbox.queen.it ? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

28 years, 3 months

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Videotext

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

> Videotext never really caught on in the US except on cable TV as a >non-interactive display. I believe there are still a few videotext services >piggybacking on satellite channels. They transmit on one of the unused scan >lines at the top of the picture, similar to closed captioning for the deaf. When I talked to the designer of the Mattel videotext system, I was confused and mentiioned this piggybacking on TV signals in the blank area, and he was kinda amused that I would confuse videotext with TELEtext. Videotext had dedicated phone numbers your system would ring up. Teletext was piggybacked on TV signals. He called videotext a precursor to the internet (and also stated that he doesn't use the 'net because you have to pay for things you want, and it's not got much useful on it anyway - I wonder how long since he's used it?!!) Cheers A

28 years, 3 months

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information

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

OK, I'm lucky enough to have prototypes of a videotext system using the Mattel Aquarius computer. I have hardware, and more importantly software, manuals, and some videotext specs. I've got the things the guys used to design their hardware - that is, the low level detail. I also have some 25 year old printouts of videotext screens. Rather neat. Contact me if you want copies, basically at cost - or I will dig out particular information gratis. Cheers A -----Original Message----- From: Jack Peacock <peacock(a)simconv.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, March 21, 1998 5:20 AM Subject: Re: information Turlough O'Brien wrote: "videotext" but there is little to no information available on the net about "Videotext" or in the libraries.I would greatly appreciate it if you could send me some informatin on the subject. (This is from memory and unreliable) There was a proposed standard for North America called NAPLPS, for videotext presentation. I believe it was sponsored by Philips. If someone has a complete collection of BYTE magazines, I recall there was an issue devoted to videotext, circa 1981. The one clever feature of NAPLPS was that the graphics were based on floating point coordinates. Because screen sizes and resolutions would vary, positioning and sizing graphics was a problem. NAPLPS used a coordinate system where the width and height of the screen ranged from 0 to 1. For instance, to place a pixel in the center, you referenced coordinates (0.5, 0.5). Videotext never really caught on in the US except on cable TV as a non-interactive display. I believe there are still a few videotext services piggybacking on satellite channels. They transmit on one of the unused scan lines at the top of the picture, similar to closed captioning for the deaf. To my knowledge the only truly successful videotext implementation was the french minitel telephone directory. Hope this gives you a place to start. Jack Peacock

28 years, 3 months

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PDP parts wanted (cross post)

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

This plea for PDP items was on the "Obsolete Computer Helpline" today and form the traffic lately I'm sure someone could contact this person to give him some pointers by direct email. >Steve Hogan <SHogan7080(a)aol.com> >Nottingham, UK - Friday, March 20, 1998 at 03:27:29 > > HELP > > I am looking for a source of spares for Digital PDP 11 computers. > > In particular, and Disk Controller and Disk Formatter cards -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 3 months

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