- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The PDP11 (at least every PDP11 that I've used) addresses memory by <bytes. OK, a 16 bit word, like an instruction, does have to lie on at an <even address, but the 16 bit address that a program generates (before <translation by the MMU) addresses one of 64K _bytes_ True but, if the memory contained nothig but instructions and addresses 32KW is the limit. Only data or IO is addressed as bytes. This would seem a trivial item it makes a difference in terms of the total number of instructions in any given amount of ram. This is more important when applied to machines with I&D space where the byte addressability can be exploited for buffers and the like. <The I/O page (certainly on Unibus PDP11's) is 4 K _words_ long. Without <an MMU you have 28kW memory, 4kW I/O Some versions and OS vaiations allowed a 2KW IO space. I've run RT-11 that way. <Wit hthe MMU enabled you can have 64k Bytes (32 k Words) of memory mapped <in. In fact you generally don't map the I/O page into user processes, <since you don't want user processes accessing device registers. True but then people ahve to understand that the MMU design seperates user space from system space. <Even if you have the MMU it's a lot simpler if your program fits into 32 <kW (or 28kW if you want access to the I/O space). Otherwise you have to <do something like using a software interrupt to change the MMU to a <different mode. I tried to keep it simple. <Unless page K1-11 of my PDP11/44 printset is wrong, the PDP11/44 has 22 b <addressing. The PDP11/45 does, indeed, only have 18 bit, alas... With the exception of the 11/70 I thought most of the unibus machines were limited to 18bits, for some devices that can be a limit. My interaction with U-bus machines is limited to the 11/70 and a 11/34 all my PDP11 time is with Q-bus (11/03, falcon, 11/23, 11/23A, 11/23b, 11/73) which has sufficient enough variation to track. Allison

28 years

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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Allison, this was private email, but I figure this may be OOPs, though I did check the header as classiccmp...? < like the 11/23 and 11/73 line should run this BSD variant as < well... what I want to know is, did the kernel fit into 64K in < one segment, or did they spread the kernel across segment < bounderies? If so, how? The kernel never fit in 64kb as the pdp11 is word addressed also the MMU operates on 4kb pages. Also the top 4kbytes are IO space. So the idea of the kernel fitting in 64k is not relevent. The real question was did it fit in the 11/44 or 45 who only had 256k (18bit addresses) space. The 11/23 and later Qbus machines were Q22 (4mb address space). The larger space means more available ram that can be used without resorting to swapping (or at least less frequently). Also PDP11s come in two other flavors, those with I&D space and those without. The 11/23 and 11/34 are those without. The 44, 45, 70, 73, 83 and others have I&D which means that Instructions and Data spaces can be seperate doubling the amount of memory available. Added to that is user and system space (memory protection between processes). So it's possible for a PDP11 to actaully address four distinct areas of memory that are non-overlapping and all 64k in size. Practical considerations limit it to less than that but it's nearly so and likely they would overlap as well. < I mean, I could see overlays (in the kernel... blech!), but I < don't remember the 11 supporting long long jumps... and address < value was 16 bits, period. Still, I was never great at 11 True of all segmented address machines. The larger 256k or 4mb space is broken into pages of which up to 8 are mapped into the 16bit address space. To do a long jump what is really done is the cpu remapped the needed page into logical space and does a 16bit jump to that page. The top 4 bits determine what page register is addressed and the contents of that register is appended to the lower 12 bit to form the larger address needed to manage a 4mb space. It takes 8 MMU registers and uses the content of the reg plus the 16bit address to form an address in physical space. < assembly. Could someone here give a good detailed account of < PDP-11 segment mapping support? Could my stack and register < values be retained and follow while moving from segment to < segment? And how the hell did you tell the memory manager you < wanted to pop to another segment, anyway? yes! A detailed discussion would wear out my fingers typing it. Sufficient that it was able to address more than 64k and while different than the 8088 or 286 in both cases the 16 bit address space was extended by argumenting the basic addressing and not extending the basic register set. I'm currently building a system using the z80 cousin called the z280 that can address 16mb of ram and the basic addressing is still 64k argumented by a MMU. Allison

28 years

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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by peacock＠simconv.com

> I seem to remember early Ethernet interface VAX quad cards > being around 1.5Mbps... not sure if it was think ether, vampire > tap stuff... This would have been before ethernet was turned > into a 'standard.' One guy I know has one of these hanging That is a DMC-11. It was an early networking card before Ethernet. It was point to point, 4 wire coax, synchronous serial at something around 1.5Mbps. The DMC-11 had an onboard bit slice processor (might have been a Signetics 8X305, not sure) to handle the packet assembly/disassembly. BTW the KMC-11 was a generic DMC-11 that was user programmable, if you wanted to roll your own protocols. I used a pair of DMC-11s in 1977 to network two PDP-11/34s with an early version of DECnet. I don't recall that DEC had any multi-drop type network interface at that time, except maybe for X.25 PADs.

28 years

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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Alright, so what we have is the last 4KW used up for stack < space, register mapping, and IO mapping. I would guess the and also boot proms. Default boot on PDP11 is 173000Q. The first page is where all the vectors for the interrupts and traps are. < MMU... do I have it right? Even on a machine with a full < 22bits of address lines on the backplane, like an 11/73, the < CPU still only has a 16bit address space. The faq doesn't make < it terribly clear what happens if you want to open up any < arbitrary window. Think of the 4mb (q22) as linear physical space. At any time the CPU/MMU can allocate contigious or scattered blocks of that space as logical physical space. To do a "long jump" a local jump to a system space is done, memory management code is run and then a jump to the now available code (in logical space) is done. One of the background jobs would be to swap out old segments that are unused to make room for current processes and swap them back if the non current process should wake up. The cpu is always in logical 16bit space but the windows (multiple) can be moved around. An ascii graphic would show the CPU 16bit space as several blocks mapped to multiple blocks scattered in a larger space. The cpu literally never leaves the range of a 16bit space but instead trade out chunks of it for different ones out of an available pool. You never actually jump put of logical space only shuffle what physical memory is part of that space. Allison

28 years

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Asshole

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

who bloody cares?! people, deal with your own problems; I dont want to hear about them on the list. I have enough to deal with myself! david, back to deleting stupid messages <again> In a message dated 98-04-10 17:47:45 EDT, you write: << Without comment enrico Anonymous wrote: > > Are you a fucking idiot, Limey? Cut the damn crying on the mailing list or you might just open a message one day and have your whole machine become instantly erased...Not a threat, a promise. -- ======================================================== Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) please visit my website at: <http://www.brighton-uk.com> ========================================================

28 years

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gcc for VAX VMS

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 10, 21:13, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Subject: gcc for VAX VMS > This touches on yesterdays VS2000 discusion. Somehow I got lucky today and > found a pointer to a VAX version of gcc at > ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/rankin/ of course I'm still trying to find a > VAX VMS version of tar and gzip so I can install it. Take a look at http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/freeware/cd.html Near the bottom of the page you'll find the "Tools" section, which includes zip, unzip, gzip, and vmstar. Unzip, gunzip, and vms tar are also on Digital's ftp site. There's a pointer at http://www.digital.com/info/vms-freeware.html or ftp directly from ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/VMS/vmstar-vax.exe Now, can someone remind me of the URL for VMS hobby licensing so I can do something about my MicroVAX? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years

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weekend additions

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

now, back to something on topic... picked up an unenhanced //e system for $10. a bit dirty from no use and a broken shift key, but powers up fine. came with 2 floppies, monchrome display which needs the contrast control cleaned and the ever popular system saver. this one has a hayes micromodem //e whereas the ][+ i got last week had a micromodem II. besides the way they connect to the phone line, are there any major differences? i presume both are still 300bps. david

28 years

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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 11, 14:11, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > Alright, so what we have is the last 4KW used up for stack > space, register mapping, and IO mapping. I would guess the > first 4KW were used up by the boot prom and monitor, which > leaves about 12KW for an application jump table and > initialization, the rest for memory mapped windows to the > MMU... do I have it right? I'm not sure how you did the arithmetic :-) 4KW (8KB) is used for the "I/O Page" which *includes* the boot PROMs. Stack can be anywhere. > QUOTE: > 0 000 000 001 ddd ddd -- JMP JuMP > > Loads the destination address into the PC, thus effecting an > unconditional jump. > Why is the jump destination address only six bits long? > Jeesh, I hope I'm not asking the obvious.... Because the DDD DDD specifies a register (1 of 8) and address mode (1 of 8) to use. So, you'll often see something like JMP @#0173000, which is represented in two words 000137,173000. In this example, the address mode is 3 (auto-increment deferred, deferred = indirect) and the register to use is R7, which is the PC. So it means "jump to the address given in the word the PC points to". In other words, that's how you code an absolute jump. The reason for the auto-increment is that that mode is the general way of getting immediate data, and in the general case you do need to increment the PC after the read (think about MOV R0, @#0173000, opcode 010037,173000 which stores R0 in 173000). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years

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Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Yeah, but could such a thing be done on Linux/UNIX OS's? I'm guessing that you would need a NT server... and I don't like NT servers. I actually had a NT and Linux server running on the exact same machine, at different times. NT was harder to handle, and had more crashes just when I needed it most, with many requests. Also, I had to reboot it 8 times to get it set up with my video card, but not other cards, altogether, it took 16 reboots, compared to 1 with Linux. My NT 5.0 beta is showing some signs of hope, but I'll need a lot more before trusting NT with a hobby list as important as this one. Just my 0.02 Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Richard A. Cini <rcini(a)email.msn.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 4:29 PM Subject: Re: Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup >On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:49:03 -0700 (PDT), Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: > >On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Richard A. Cini wrote: > >> Anyway, as part of my Microsoft beta testing, I belong to a small >group >> of "elite" testers. Called ClubWin!, we have a private administrative >> newsgroup that requires a login name and password. Having a ClassicCmp >> newsgroup would provide a threaded conversation capability. We could also >> hang an e-mail gateway off of the news server to provide e-mail messages >for >> those who can't or want to use a newsgroup. > > >>>Give us more details, Richard. > > Well, since I wasn't the one who implemented the news server, I'm only >guessing as to its implementation. You can probably hang a NNTP (news) >server off of any Internet-accessible server. The news server has its own IP >address. Bill Whitson could create one off of the ClassicCmp server at >UofWA, or anyone else here with a free IP address and the approval of the >bosses. You could then also provide an e-mail gateway the news server so >that those who want the newsgroup activity by e-mail can get it. > > Authentication is either anonymous or login required. Each of us is >given a login name and password (like rcini and 12345678), which will be >required to logon. From there, your newsreader takes over. > >Rich Cini/WUGNET > <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) > ClubWin! Charter Member (6) > MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking >============================================ > > > >

28 years

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gcc for VAX VMS

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi Pete, ---------- > From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: gcc for VAX VMS > Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 8:33 AM > > does DECUS do in other countries? There must be lots of peopel like us who > keep old 11s and VAXen running. probably they don't use VMS ... ;-)) but serious, i think they expanding this Hobbiist thing to other countries. one day .... cheers, emanuel

28 years

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Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Wait a second, ARE there private newsgroups on this topic? I thought it was just an idea everyone proposed but never did... > >At 08:49 AM 4/10/98 -0400, you wrote: >> Scanning today''s messages gave me an idea. I don't know if this has >>been discussed before, but I don't remember it being discussed. > >It has. It comes up every now and then on every mailing list. What >usually happens is that those who want a newsgroup go off a create a >newsgroup, and the ones who can't access or don't like newsgroups stick to >the e-mail list, and the real die-hards follow both, cross-posting stuff >all the time. > >> ClubWin! Charter Member (6) > ^ >I am not a number, I am a free man! > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

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Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 11, 17:06, Hotze wrote: > Subject: Re: Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup > Yeah, but could such a thing be done on Linux/UNIX OS's? I'm guessing that > you would need a NT server... You can run the INN server under linux (or other UNIXes), and it supports authorisation. I'd expect that the real problem is finding the extra space to store the newsgroup files. At present, I don't think the list takes up much file space, since the postings aren't archived (AFAIK). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years

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gcc for VAX VMS

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi Pete, ---------- > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: gcc for VAX VMS > Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 4:54 AM > > Now, can someone remind me of the URL for VMS hobby licensing so I can do > something about my MicroVAX? > have a look at: http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/register.html cheers, emanuel

28 years

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gcc for VAX VMS

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 11, 8:30, emanuel stiebler wrote: > > From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> > > Now, can someone remind me of the URL for VMS hobby licensing so I can do > > something about my MicroVAX? > > http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/register.html > P.S. You have to be a DECUS member for this, .... Thanks! I also see that it only covers a few countries -- not including the UK, where I am. I let my UK DECUS membership lapse, when they started charging considerable (at least, from a student's point of view) amounts of money for annual membership and vast amounts of money for software from the library. It's not like in the States, where there's a no-charge Basic Membership. What does DECUS do in other countries? There must be lots of peopel like us who keep old 11s and VAXen running. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years

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gcc for VAX VMS

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi Pete, ---------- > From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: gcc for VAX VMS > Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 4:54 AM > > > Now, can someone remind me of the URL for VMS hobby licensing so I can do > something about my MicroVAX? please have a look at: http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/register.html cheers, emanuel P.S. You have to be a DECUS member for this, ....

28 years

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Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:49:03 -0700 (PDT), Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Anyway, as part of my Microsoft beta testing, I belong to a small group > of "elite" testers. Called ClubWin!, we have a private administrative > newsgroup that requires a login name and password. Having a ClassicCmp > newsgroup would provide a threaded conversation capability. We could also > hang an e-mail gateway off of the news server to provide e-mail messages for > those who can't or want to use a newsgroup. >>Give us more details, Richard. Well, since I wasn't the one who implemented the news server, I'm only guessing as to its implementation. You can probably hang a NNTP (news) server off of any Internet-accessible server. The news server has its own IP address. Bill Whitson could create one off of the ClassicCmp server at UofWA, or anyone else here with a free IP address and the approval of the bosses. You could then also provide an e-mail gateway the news server so that those who want the newsgroup activity by e-mail can get it. Authentication is either anonymous or login required. Each of us is given a login name and password (like rcini and 12345678), which will be required to logon. From there, your newsreader takes over. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years

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Re.: How about a weekly FS/T list? (was Sale postings to Classiccmp)

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:43:19 -0700 (PDT), Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: >>Even if everyone could agree on this it would last for about 1 week and >>then go back to status quo. I really don't mind the ads. They are not >>excessive, they are reaching a good market where there is a win-win (the >>seller gets some money and space back and the buyer gets first crack at >>cool stuff), and they are more on topic than the drivel that has been >>plaguing us for the last four weeks or so. Whether or not it would go back would depend on our level of commitment. I don't think that it is burdensome lately, because some are concentrating on slinging mud, but it would be nice to have them all in one place. Reference so to speak. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years

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i387's

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I had looked in jameco's catalog before, and the prices seem rather high! $25 for a single mathco is outrageous. i remember they did/do sell system boards that arent necessarily state of the art for 2-3 times a "normal" price. do they still sell apple parts? mouser electronics (if still around) might have parts cheaper. In a message dated 98-04-11 06:13:39 EDT, you write: << >I realize that this may not quite reach the 10year mark, but not many >people deal with even this old of hardware. (Is there a group out there >for "obsolete" yet non-yet-classic hardware?) 10 years? Yes. The 80386 was designed in 1985, so the 387 couldn't be to much later than that. >I need to find somewhere to get many i387 chips. (I currently need about >15 to 20 of them.) Anyone know the best place to start looking? The EXACT place to look is Jameco, at http://www.jameco.com . In their newest catalog, they list the 80387 (unter Integrated circuts and then under Math Coprocessors), they have: (prices for the 10-99 range) 80387-33 $25.95 80387-40 $29.95 80387-16SX $34.95 """""""""20"" $39.95 """""""""25"" $44.95 I can give part #'s if you're interested. Hope this helps, Tim D. Hotze >>

28 years

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i387's

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>I realize that this may not quite reach the 10year mark, but not many >people deal with even this old of hardware. (Is there a group out there >for "obsolete" yet non-yet-classic hardware?) 10 years? Yes. The 80386 was designed in 1985, so the 387 couldn't be to much later than that. >I need to find somewhere to get many i387 chips. (I currently need about >15 to 20 of them.) Anyone know the best place to start looking? The EXACT place to look is Jameco, at http://www.jameco.com . In their newest catalog, they list the 80387 (unter Integrated circuts and then under Math Coprocessors), they have: (prices for the 10-99 range) 80387-33 $25.95 80387-40 $29.95 80387-16SX $34.95 """""""""20"" $39.95 """""""""25"" $44.95 I can give part #'s if you're interested. Hope this helps, Tim D. Hotze

28 years

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Asshole

by e.tedeschi＠ndirect.co.uk

Without comment enrico Anonymous wrote: > > Are you a fucking idiot, Limey? Cut the damn crying on the mailing list or you might just open a message one day and have your whole machine become instantly erased...Not a threat, a promise. -- ======================================================== Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) please visit my website at: <http://www.brighton-uk.com> ========================================================

28 years

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Creative Retrocomputing Use for 386s and 486s

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:18 PM 4/9/98 -0400, you wrote: >>around and use the PC as a disk drive "server" for the C64, VIC20 and C128? >>And that is only one thought. > >I believe that's already been done. I know it's been done for 8-bit Atari's. (I've seen a 1200xl with built-in hard-drive, using a pentium with big HD and CD as a peripheral...) (Talk to Bob Wooley of the San Leandro Computer Club, San Leandro, CA.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years

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what is a Vax Station 2000?

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> They are not CPU upgradable, but you can add expansion > memory out to 16MB, an 8 port async serial board (thats the big DB > connector that doesn't go anywhere) and a sync serial port. Sorry, the big DB that doesn't go anywhere is used to add another MFM hard disk. It contains the control and data signals for the second drive. I've not seen the 8-port option, but I believe it plugs in place of the color graphics board. > The SCSI port was only supported for the TKZ50 tape drive, an > old 95MB DLT type drive, although I think there was a 3rd party SCSI > disk driver from Trimarchi (now out of business). Gerhard Moeller (I believe that's his name) has hacked over the SCSI driver for the MicroVAX 3100 to bring it up on the 2000. I've used the driver under VMS 7.1 to speak to a tape drive (this gives me a nice little package to take on travel; a 2000 with an RD32 and a TZ30). Since it's a full-up SCSI port driver, it can be used to support anything VMS knows how to talk to; disks, tapes, etc. I've heard of one fellow who is using a 2000 to burn CDs. I suggest looking around on dejanews for discussion of Moeller's driver. > The VAXstation had a > graphics display for a non-standard monitor. All 2000s include a monochrome display built into the motherboard. It is also possible to add on a color display. Rumor has it that it is not impossible to use both displays simultaneously, but I've never tried it (my color monitors have died over the years). Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years

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Telex 181-GP printer

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

Nephew has acquired a Telex 181-GP dot matrix printer. I've looked on the net, and it looks like Telex is all but gone. Any idea where I might find documentation on this unit? I'm assuming it emulates a 5152, like almost every other DM made in the 80's. Kind of ironic, as we had a huge Telex facility here in Tulsa for years. -- David Wollmann | dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats.

28 years

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Morrow Designs Pivot

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I recently acquired a Morrow Designs Pivot Model 2522 - Special, serial number 31-0001488. Both the model number and serial number are hand written on the manufacturer plate on the rear of this pc. It has dual 5 1/4 " floppy drives and 640k memory. The memory board is labelled Morrow Zenith.This is an interesting portable having a rom monitor for the built-in modem, what appears to be a built-in calculator (haven't been able to get the calculator button to do anything). Date can be changed in the monitor by pressing a button also. Boots MS-DOS fine. I read in Stan Veit's book that Zenith licensed this technology from Morrow. Does anyone have any further info on this unit or better yet a operation manual? Thanks- Marty Mintzell

28 years

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Rabbit 286 ????

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Today I bought three portable PCs marked "Rabbit 286". They're about the size of a large lunch box and have a keyboard that fastens against one side. When you remove the keyboard it uncovers a gas plasma screen. There are slots for two 3.5 drives on the right hand side and a door on the left side. Opening the door exposes the back of several expansion card slots. There's a label on the bottom that says "Chicony Electronics Co.", "Model 286G-A", "Gas Plasma Display" and "640H x 400W Dots". One almost works, one is dead and the third one is somewhere in between. Does anyone know anything about these? I'm wondering if it's possible to put a small 386 or 486 mother board in these. Joe

28 years

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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

That's exactly where I got it from. Now, I was just thinking that in 1973, that would be a huge space, the size (or larger) than hard drives! So you could transmit your entire hard drive in a second, barring server stuff and hard drive speed. It sounded strange to me. ;-) Ciao, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: James Willing <jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 1:06 AM Subject: Re: You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet) >On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > >> > >> > Sorry, but this seems crazy to me. Was Ethernet invented in 1973? Was it >> > 10MBps then? >> >> I somehow doubt it! > >>From the tagline of Bob Metcalfe's regular column in Infoworld... > (this should explain all...) > >"Technology pundit Bob Metcalfe invented Ethernet in 1973 and founded 3Com >in 1979, and today he specializes in the Internet..." > >...and just in case that does not work for you, I have a copy of the >original joint specification document buried in the archives somewhere. >B^} > >-jim >--- >jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw >Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >

28 years

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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Dunno when the 8X305 came out. I've seen them, and got the data sheets, <but never used one. Well after the 2901! it's far more complex. It was preceded by the 8x300 and the 3x305 was somthing like 1979-81. Allison

28 years

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eBay = Mkt Value? (was: my objection to recent postings)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:35 AM 4/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >> As to whether prices on eBay represent what experienced, knowledgeable >> collectors will pay, that's another story. > >Exactly my point. I'd rather base valuations on what experienced, >knowledgeable collectors will pay. People who have a better idea of how My point too. There's a big difference in "market value" and "collector value". (Don't believe me, buy a "collectible" plate sometime, or coins >from a TV shopping channel.) Market value is what the average idiot will pay, at auction or elsewhere. Collector value is what an informed collector will pay, based on rarity, significance, etc. I've got books on disney, hot wheels/corgi/dinky/matchbox/etc., glassware, collectible board games, and so on (used to be in the business, kinda) and I am often amazed at what things sell for, at auction, at antique shows, in stores, as well as at garage sales, flea markets, and so on. Heck, Hake's is one of the biggest value setters in the US of pricing on Disney, politicals, advertising, and so on stuff, but still, a lot of collectors (me included) think their prices are inflated. Market value versus collector value. >> That's a tough call. Do you sell it to someone who will use it and >> appreciate it for what you paid for it, or do you put it on eBay so you can >> pay the property taxes? I haven't got an answer to that one yet. > >I do...sell it to me :) Ah, but... Say I'm a newbie to the group (and don't take this personally!), how do I know that if I sell you my //c LCD screen for $20, I won't see it listed on eBay next week with a starting bid of $400? And even though I know you wouldn't do that, I still not that easy. As an example, I've got two SE/30 motherboards, brand new, in the Apple Service boxes. I know some people here expressed interest in them, so I should probably offer them here, cheaply. The problem is, they're actually part of the Mac stuff allocated to my girlfriend's school. If I sold them on eBay, I might get enough to buy a complete, working IIci system to put into the classroom for the kids to use. What do I do? And even if they weren't going to the school, I wasn't able to take my dad and niece to Disneyland this year because I can't afford it. If I sold them on eBay, that would pay for part of a cheap trip to Dland. Like I said, tough call. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years

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Re.: How about a weekly FS/T list? (was Sale postings to Classiccmp)

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Here's an idea... How about making Friday the "classifieds section" day? You know, like the local newspaper. Although classifieds appear in newspspers daily, it seems that one day has many more than the others. This would reduce the daily FS/T traffic, but still enable people to trade stuff. I see ClassicCmp as a great resource, not only for information not available elsewhere, but also for physical equipment and software which is obviously no longer made or supported by the manufacturer. I also think that those on this list should give (and be given) first crack at something that one of us has for sale. We all know eachother, have dealth with eachother previously, and for the most part, know that "the check is good." Trading should continue, but maybe it should be aggregated and done on one day. Maybe Monday's the right day...maybe Friday. I don't know. Just my $0.02. Happy Holidays to all. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years

4
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Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:49 AM 4/10/98 -0400, you wrote: > Scanning today''s messages gave me an idea. I don't know if this has >been discussed before, but I don't remember it being discussed. It has. It comes up every now and then on every mailing list. What usually happens is that those who want a newsgroup go off a create a newsgroup, and the ones who can't access or don't like newsgroups stick to the e-mail list, and the real die-hards follow both, cross-posting stuff all the time. > ClubWin! Charter Member (6) ^ I am not a number, I am a free man! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years

1
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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by peacock＠simconv.com

> From: Tony Duell [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > > Actually, it's all discrete TTL chips (74S181 ALUs, 74161's for the > program counter, etc). The KMC11 and DMR11 (a later version That's right 'ls181, a crude bit slice ALU. I remember there was a way to download microcode directly, the RSX driver supported it. None of those cool 2900 series slices were around yet, maybe even the 8x305 was still on the drawing board. I still have the AMD 2901 design book, heavy going but it tells you everything you ever want to know about building a CPU from scratch. I don't suppose anyone has some kind of system built from 2901 bit slices? Roll your own microcoded instruction sets? Jack Peacock

28 years

3
2
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Subscribe

by POLARIS＠VAX1.Mankato.MSUS.EDU

Hello - could you add me to the list? Thanks, Dave Forsyth

28 years

1
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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by maynard＠jmg.com

Allison, this was private email, but I figure this may be actually of interest to the group. There's nothing here personal, or insulting anyway... OK. So Allison says the HEX bus 11/44 ran a BSD variant with networking. I would guess a Q-BUS CPU with memory management like the 11/23 and 11/73 line should run this BSD variant as well... what I want to know is, did the kernel fit into 64K in one segment, or did they spread the kernel across segment bounderies? If so, how? I mean, I could see overlays (in the kernel... blech!), but I don't remember the 11 supporting long long jumps... and address value was 16 bits, period. Still, I was never great at 11 assembly. Could someone here give a good detailed account of PDP-11 segment mapping support? Could my stack and register values be retained and follow while moving from segment to segment? And how the hell did you tell the memory manager you wanted to pop to another segment, anyway? The curious want to know.... --jmg > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:40:32 -0400 > From: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent) > To: maynard(a)jmg.com > Subject: Re: You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet) > > > < I find it tough to believe that a BSD kernel with networking > < fit into the 64K memory segments of the PDP11... The copy of > < Venix I ran on my 11/23 didn't support networking and the > < kernel most _definately_ fit into only one segment. > > Venix didn't, but IP and friends was developed on PDP11s! It definately > fit and was run on 11/44s and the like so it would fit on an 11/23. That's > not to say there wasn't whole lto a swapping goin on. > > Allison > >

28 years

1
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[OFF TOPIC?] Fixed Freq Monitor Questions

by maynard＠jmg.com

OK, This is mildly on topic. My monitor is an HP 1097C, making it at least 10 years old. However, I am using it with a modern PC, so that's where the 'on topic' issue gets a little iffy. I'm sure there are plenty of people here who can answer this question. A pointer to a FAQ would be most welcome. These old monitors are Fixed frequency, unlike our modern monitors which multisync. The 1097C supports only a 78.125 khz Horizontal Scan Rate and a 72hz Vertical Refresh Rate. Now a couple of years ago I foolishly bought one of those cards by Mirage (www.mirage-mmc.com) which is supposed to be a 'fixed freq video card'. Actually, it's an OEM Diamond card, basically an S3/968 video processor with an IBM 52x RAMDAC - ala Diamond Stealth VRAM. The fixed Freq hacks are basically a resistor (and a jumper selection) to drive sync over green, and a homebrew PROM to skew the VESA frequencies for several video and text modes. It works, but Mirage hasn't been too helpful with getting a variety of XFree86 modelines, even though they claim to support Linux and XFree86. They give out _one_ modeline for 1280 x 1024, which they swiped from the XFree86 distribution in 'Monitors.txt'. For Windows and Dos, they give out a video driver which seems to work just fine. It will even display 320x200 full screen (Quake works great in DOS!), and boots to a functional 80x24 col text mode. How the hell do they do this? Here is how I'm calculating my video modes based in the XFree86VideoModes HOWTO (found in every Redhat 5 distribution): Dot Clock Per Second Total Horizontal Pixels Per Line = -------------------------- Horizontal Scanning Rate Since my refresh rate must be at 72hz to sync with the HP1097C: Dot Clock Refresh Rate = ------------------------------------------------- Horizontal Frame Length * Vertical Frame Length So, it's really more constructive to think of this as how many pixels _total_ do I need to display in order to get a 72 hz vertical scan rate with any arbitrary dot clock? In this case I need Dot Clock Total Pixels Per Frame (HFLxVFL) = ------------- Refresh Rate Since I know my Horizontal Pixels Per Line, I can use this to determine the number of vertical lines which will support a 72 hz refresh rate.... hmmm, this is where things get sticky. We'll start with a DCL of 10Mhz... 10Mhz Dot Clock 128 Horizontal Pixels = ----------------------------- 78125 hz Vertical Scan Rate 10 Mhz Dot Clock 138888 Total Pixels = --------------------------- 72 hz Refresh Rate 138888.88 Pixels 1085 Vertical Lines Per Frame = ----------------------- 128 Horizontal Pixels Sheesh! A (total) screen resolution of 128H x 1085V? What about a 20 Mhz dot clock? Well, after graphing the results I quickly observed this: S | T C | o R R | 128H 256H 384H 512H 640H 1728H ** T E E | x x x x x x A E S | 1085V 1085V 1085V 1085V 1085V 1085V L N | | DCL ----+------+-------+-------+-------+------- [...] ----+----- 10 20 30 40 50 135 (** Perfect for a usful screen resolution of 1280x1024) So, based on this, I cannot get small or talored screen resolutions unless I am willing to accept wide borders and strange resolutions. Yet my card works....It does _not_ display this behavior... so I suspect my thinking is to blame. Will someone please correct me? Apologies if you consider this post off topic... J. Maynard Gelinas

28 years

1
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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by peacock＠simconv.com

> From: allisonp(a)world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com] > > 802.. eithernet was always 10mbit/s. The 1.5mhz stuff was > arcnet. They > are similar in that they are both bus topology using CSMA/CD > arbitration. > Not quite. Arcnet was not a CSMA/CD but token passing, more in common with Token Ring rather than Ethernet. Arcnet used a bus, but a token was passed along to each node and that node sent a packet only when it got the token. Whenever a new node came online the rest of the nodes would reconfigure and start the token over again. Collisions only occured when new nodes came on line the first time. IIRC it was Datapoint that first came up with Arcnet for their multi-user terminals. For a small number of static nodes the Arcnet throughput was actually quite good. Whereas ethernet is probabilistic for access, token passing is deterministic in that you are guaranteed a slice of bandwidth to every node. At a minimum you always had roughly 1/n of available bandwidth, where n was the number of nodes. Arcnet degraded in a linear fashion as nodes were added, but Ethernet degradation can approach geometric rates, as anyone knows when they see that collision light on the UTP hub go on solid. Also, Arcnet was 2.5Mbps. The original version used coax (not Ethernet thinwire! I think it was RG-92?) into hubs, later versions went to twisted pair. There was a 20Mbps follow-up from SMC (the primary chip maker for Arcnet) but it never caught on. Arcnet was a common networking standard for S-100 systems in the early to mid 80s, using MP/M and CP/NET from Digital Research. I think it was one of the first network transports supported by NetWare too. Jack Peacock

28 years

1
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Is this possible? (Storage) (Off-topic?)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Sam, you have to understand that if people don't feel comfortable asking questions on this list, even if they are irrelevant, they won't ask anything at all. You can't intimidate people if you want them to deal with you. In response to the original question: the isolinear chips are supposed to be holographic memory, which is in the works, and will allow terabytes of storage in several cubic centimeters, just like on the Enterprise. The nanites have an advanced version of modern nanomachinery. I would think that .5 micron hard drives are easier in this case. As for the ancient storage, I think that was magnetic. Interestingly enough, the classic trek had almost nothing in the way of computers, though there were plenty of them out there in the '60s >"REALLY". > >Thanks in advance. > >On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Hotze wrote: > >> Sorry, but this has been bugging me for quite some time. In Star Trek, they >> use "Isolinear" based memory circuts to store information in both the short >> and long term. So, from the looks of it, it's some kind of crystal, and can >> transmit it's data very quickly, and with no moving parts, so I'm guessing >> that it's similiar to today's RAM. Now, for the hard part: It can hold >> entire encyclopedia's in tiny amounts. In one episiode, they had nanites, >> little robot-bugs that could hold "gigabytes of information," and were >> microscopic. Furthermore, in some episodes, they find Chodak and T'Kon >> ruins, between 900,000 to 700,000 years old, with half or more of the data >> intact. >> Was crystaline storage ever attempted like this? Is it possible? >> Feasable? >> Thanks, >> >> Tim D. Hotze >> >> > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. > > Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 04/08/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

3
2
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Is this possible? (Storage) (Off-topic?)

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Not to beat a dead horse, but I believe Tim's question was relevant. I read about optical storage using holography well over ten years ago but am unaware of its present use or status. This may not strictly qualify as classic computer subject matter but shouldn't we give a 12 year-old a break? Tim should be commended and encouraged for his interest in computer science and preservation, not hen-pecked over the fact that he related his question to a Star Trak episode. Keep asking questions Tim and don't let anybody intimidate you into silence. Marty Mintzell ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Is this possible? (Storage) (Off-topic?) Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 4/10/98 2:09 PM Star Trek is a television show. Do you really think that this question is appropriate? Two words... alt.startrek van >Sorry, but this has been bugging me for quite some time. In Star Trek, they >use "Isolinear" based memory circuts to store information in both the short >and long term. So, from the looks of it, it's some kind of crystal, and can >transmit it's data very quickly, and with no moving parts, so I'm guessing >that it's similiar to today's RAM. Now, for the hard part: It can hold >entire encyclopedia's in tiny amounts. In one episiode, they had nanites, >little robot-bugs that could hold "gigabytes of information," and were >microscopic. Furthermore, in some episodes, they find Chodak and T'Kon >ruins, between 900,000 to 700,000 years old, with half or more of the data >intact. > Was crystaline storage ever attempted like this? Is it possible? >Feasable? > Thanks, > >Tim D. Hotze ......................................................................... @ / / Shift Lever (D)/ \===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan === BNL |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired! - ------------]=[]@----------------------@ 415.276.4979 Trans- ] ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655 (B) ? (C) Rear Connection mission ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ] ]] 71 ------------] web superstation of the stars... van burnham http://www.futuraworld.com production manager wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united states ......................................................................... for immediate emergency wireless access send email to van-page(a)wired.com van(a)wired.com van(a)futuraworld.com pingpong(a)spy.net vanburnham(a)aol.com ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Apr10.140909.1767.36428; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:09:15 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id LAA18051; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:03:44 -0700 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id LAA63546 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:03:35 -0700 Received: from wired.com (get.wired.com [204.62.131.5]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id LAA04060 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:03:34 -0700 Received: from [206.221.206.170] (wrs.wired.com [206.221.206.170]) by wired.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA15918 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:01:03 -0700 Message-Id: <v03110700b1540e831ecb(a)[206.221.206.170]> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:14:44 -0700 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Van Burnham <van(a)wired.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Is this possible? (Storage) (Off-topic?) In-Reply-To: <001001bd64a0$934d3ee0$3167bcc1@hotze> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: van(a)pophost.wired.com X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years

1
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eBay = Mkt Value? (was: my objection to recent postings)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:07 AM 4/9/98 -0700, you wrote: >I agree. Ebay is definitely NOT indicative of "actual market value". Its >all based on scarcity, and scarcity varies from area to area around the >country and the world. Someone thinking they got a great deal on a >complete C64 system for $25 got ripped off since I can pick up something >similar locally for less than $10. Well, "actual market value" is exactly what eBay is -- the value of an object (i.e., what it sells for) on the open market. Ya can't get much more open than eBay, what with it's internationalism. As to whether prices on eBay represent what experienced, knowledgeable collectors will pay, that's another story. And lastly, yes, values are determined in large part by scarcity. Here in San Francisco, a postcard with a picture of the Golden Gate Bridge will cost me 25 cents (or so). In New York, I'd probably have to pay a bit more for one, and still more if I were in, say, Ayr, Scotland. Here in the SF area, a lot of computers are readily available, and affordable. This is a very technically aware locale, and a lot of the people here were early-adopters of computer technology (unlike, say, parts of Pennsylvania that are primarily Amish.) So they'll be cheaper here than elsewhere. So people in PA can either pay higher prices there, buy over the net (including eBay), or hop a plane to SF. As a side note, it always makes me laugh when at antique shows when I see some item for sale for $15 that I know can be bought at Disneyland, brand new, for $3. But people pay those prices, because not everyone goes to DLand every year. >Ugh! Don't do that! Sell it to someone who would appreciate and >actually use it (like me! :) That's a tough call. Do you sell it to someone who will use it and appreciate it for what you paid for it, or do you put it on eBay so you can pay the property taxes? I haven't got an answer to that one yet. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years

3
2
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E & L MMD1 8080 trainer board

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1903 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980406/061087ac/at…

28 years

2
2
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Is this possible? (Storage) (Off-topic?)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Well, it really depends. After asking my self, I said "No." Then, after contemplating it, and asking again, I have to say "Yes." First of all, it deals with the preservation of data, something that collecters must be knowledgable about, especially if they have origional/interesting software. -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, April 10, 1998 8:06 PM Subject: Re: Is this possible? (Storage) (Off-topic?) > >This is a Star Trek question and has absolutely no place on this >discussion. > >When posting a message to ClassicCmp, ask yourself this question: "Does >this REALLY have ANYTHING to do with old computers?" After you answer it >to yourself, ask it again, but this time put extra emphasis on the word >"REALLY". > >Thanks in advance. > >On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Hotze wrote: > >> Sorry, but this has been bugging me for quite some time. In Star Trek, they >> use "Isolinear" based memory circuts to store information in both the short >> and long term. So, from the looks of it, it's some kind of crystal, and can >> transmit it's data very quickly, and with no moving parts, so I'm guessing >> that it's similiar to today's RAM. Now, for the hard part: It can hold >> entire encyclopedia's in tiny amounts. In one episiode, they had nanites, >> little robot-bugs that could hold "gigabytes of information," and were >> microscopic. Furthermore, in some episodes, they find Chodak and T'Kon >> ruins, between 900,000 to 700,000 years old, with half or more of the data >> intact. >> Was crystaline storage ever attempted like this? Is it possible? >> Feasable? >> Thanks, >> >> Tim D. Hotze >> >> > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. > > Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 04/08/98] >

28 years

1
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TRS-80 Model 4 (128k) for sale

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Amen, Sam. Enrico, please use discretion in these issues. Personal issues should stay between individuals, not aired on the list. Tell us about your classic computer collection. I'm eager to hear about it. Marty Mintzell ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: TRS-80 Model 4 (128k) for sale Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 4/8/98 3:22 PM A real gentle-man! enrico Sam Ismail wrote: > > On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Enrico Tedeschi wrote: > > > You are demontrating AGAIN that you don't care about other people feelings and > > problems. You are NOT in charge of policing this mailgroup. If you don't want > > to see this sort messages anymore help me to fix my problem. > > I'm not going to help you do shit. This is YOUR problem. This is NOT the > problem of classiccmp! Therefore, DON'T POST YOUR PROBLEMS ON CLASSICCMP! > I don't post how much of an ass I think you are, so don't post your > personal crap either! And you'd better bet that when I do take over the > list, I'll make sure YOU are on the list of moderated members since you > have proven time and time again that you can't police yourself. So show > some restraint and respect and KEEP YOUR GARBAGE IN PRIVATE E-MAIL PLEASE! > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! -- ======================================================== Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) please visit my website at: <http://www.brighton-uk.com> ======================================================== ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Apr08.152223.1767.36036; Wed, 08 Apr 1998 15:22:26 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id MAA28636; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 12:09:33 -0700 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id MAA24588 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 12:09:23 -0700 Received: from andromeda.ndirect.co.uk (andromeda.ndirect.co.uk [194.74.254.17]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id MAA27472 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 12:09:21 -0700 Received: from ndirect.co.uk (th-pm01-62.ndirect.co.uk [195.7.225.126]) by andromeda.ndirect.co.uk (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA31705 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 20:09:19 +0100 Message-Id: <352BD991.37692194(a)ndirect.co.uk> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 20:10:01 +0000 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Enrico Tedeschi <e.tedeschi(a)ndirect.co.uk> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: TRS-80 Model 4 (128k) for sale References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980407113208.29252B-100000@shell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years

6
9
0 0

TI 99/4a

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I am pretty sure that the TI itself works. I plugged in a commodore 5-pin monitor cable. The video pinouts differ, I guess, but the audio worked. It beeped when I turned it on, and booped whenever I pressed a key. I checked the modulator box cable, and it's fine. Also, the box is getting power. Still, the little led on it does not light up, and ISDN (It Still Does Nothing). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

1
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Is this possible? (Storage) (Off-topic?)

by kroma＠worldnet.att.net

> >This is a Star Trek question and has absolutely no place on this >discussion. > <snip> > >On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Hotze wrote: <snip> >> microscopic. Furthermore, in some episodes, they find Chodak and T'Kon >> ruins, between 900,000 to 700,000 years old, with half or more of the data >> intact. I think 700,000 years old qualifies as being over the ten year mark :-) -- Kirk

28 years

2
1
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Re.: How about a weekly FS/T list? (was Sale postings

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I love the ads, anytime. I don't care how classic equipment is offered up just as long as it is being made available. I don't have any problem with commercialism either. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re.: How about a weekly FS/T list? (was Sale postings to Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 4/10/98 12:50 PM On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Richard A. Cini wrote: > How about making Friday the "classifieds section" day? You know, like > the local newspaper. Although classifieds appear in newspspers daily, it > seems that one day has many more than the others. > > This would reduce the daily FS/T traffic, but still enable people to > trade stuff. I see ClassicCmp as a great resource, not only for information > not available elsewhere, but also for physical equipment and software which > is obviously no longer made or supported by the manufacturer. Even if everyone could agree on this it would last for about 1 week and then go back to status quo. I really don't mind the ads. They are not excessive, they are reaching a good market where there is a win-win (the seller gets some money and space back and the buyer gets first crack at cool stuff), and they are more on topic than the drivel that has been plaguing us for the last four weeks or so. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 04/08/98] ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Apr10.125015.1767.36399; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:50:16 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id JAA12125; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:43:37 -0700 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id JAA63678 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:43:28 -0700 Received: from shell.wco.com (root(a)shell.wco.com [199.4.94.16]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id JAA26839 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:43:26 -0700 Received: from shell (dastar@shell [199.4.94.16]) by shell.wco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/WCO-18jul97) with SMTP id JAA14087 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980410094013.8124C-100000@shell> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Re.: How about a weekly FS/T list? (was Sale postings to Classiccmp) In-Reply-To: <005501bd6480$ddf42b40$6521a7cd@bothell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Sender: dastar@shell X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

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Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Scanning today''s messages gave me an idea. I don't know if this has been discussed before, but I don't remember it being discussed. It's sometimes hard to follow the list with all of the quoted-replies; maybe tracking deep-threaded messages is just not my strong suit :-) Anyway, as part of my Microsoft beta testing, I belong to a small group of "elite" testers. Called ClubWin!, we have a private administrative newsgroup that requires a login name and password. Having a ClassicCmp newsgroup would provide a threaded conversation capability. We could also hang an e-mail gateway off of the news server to provide e-mail messages for those who can't or want to use a newsgroup. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

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worldwide shipping of junk

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: >Very true. You euro-doods could make a killing on us stupid Americans if >you started auctioning off easy to find Sinclairs, Orics and Thompsons on >Ebay. The only obstacle to overcome would be shipping, but I'm sure a >little creative direct advertising towards us could overcome that concern. So what does it cost to send a standard shipping container from London to San Francisco on a slow boat? With a container a month, you could stock an esoteric used computer store, bi-directionally. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

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Burroughs B27?

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Ten-plus years ago, I was given an opportunity to scrap a Burroughs machine of some kind. I don't think it was still running, and it was the size of a small refrigerator. I pulled the interesting chips and disassembled the open-air hard disk unit. It was covered in a clear sheet plastic frame, sealed with snaps or Velcro, and the 14" platters spun in the air like a turntable. I still have the two platters on the wall. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

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eBay transactions

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-04-10 02:14:22 EDT, you write: << At 06:29 PM 4/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >> That might depend on whether you're selling or buying, Kai :-). A *very* valid comment. >> More seriously, has anyone here actually conducted a transaction >> through Ebay? Did the highest bidder actually make payment in >> a timely manner, if you were selling? >> just had a friend of mine email me to tell me he saw a mac128 go for $330 on ebay. idiots overbid themselves. ebay is a good indicator of old computer prices? i think not!

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TRS-80 Model 4 (128k) for sale

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-04-08 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :You might if you had been had by someone in this list. If the man :is a con, I think I am doing a public service here trying to stop :him to strike again with somebody else. the email below was private. why did you post a public response? that is a breach of netiquette - which makes you look every bit as clueless as cord intimated. we'll ring you to complain in future. everyone else: apologies, but we felt we should point this out. :enrico :lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: :> On 1998-04-07 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet. :>co.uk :Warning! You might get something different from what :>you have :bidded for. I did. :> keep your bitching private. nobody else gives a toss. :> -- :> Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you :>falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing :within her... :-- :======================================================== :Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK :Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) :please visit my website at: <http://www.brighton-uk.com> :======================================================== -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years

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eBay transactions

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:29 PM 4/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >> That might depend on whether you're selling or buying, Kai :-). A *very* valid comment. >> More seriously, has anyone here actually conducted a transaction >> through Ebay? Did the highest bidder actually make payment in >> a timely manner, if you were selling? I have both bought and sold (mostly bought, though) through eBay. Mostly Classic Computers, Donald Duck stuff, and Miniature Land Rovers. Had one problem once, when the guy ignored me for a while, then eventually claimed to have previously sold the stuff I bid on. Never had a problem with a payment. Generally, stuff is well packaged, though one time, I bought a TI99/4A in the original box, and it arrived -- in the original box, covered with duct tape. I was heartbroken. I explained to the guy that I had been interested in the box as much as the computer, and he offered to refund my money. (I didn't take him up on the offer, just wanted to prevent it from happening to someone else.) For comparison, I once ordered a Donald Duck nutcracker (new) from the Disney catalog. The 6"x6"x12" nutcracker box came in a 2'x1'x3' box, with a few sheets of tissue paper, neatly folded on the bottom of the box. I was *not* happy. The feedback system on ebay seems to work pretty well, I think. I feel pretty comfortable buying and selling there. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

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