- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I have had too many 3.5" disks go bad, some my own, some not, not to ask why. I mean, is it just a property of 3.5" disks to be unreliable, or is something else? Are there any "industrial quality" drives/disks that are reasonably reliable? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

4
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Collecting Philosophy, was Re: Asshole

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 13, 23:19, Tony Duell wrote: > Seriously, I think you can justtify owning several of the same machine if > the machines have expansion slots (like the Apple ][ or the PDP11) and > you've got a lot of cards you want to play with. I'm pretty sure I've got > far too many unibus cards (even with DB11 bus repeaters) for a single > machine. And I wonder how useful 2 DX11's (I do mean DX11, not RX11) are > on the same machine. Isn't a DX11 an IBM channel interface? Originally a big cabinet with a lot of flip chips and lamps? I've seen two, working. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years

2
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Model 1 mods (was Re: obnoxious subject header)

by bwit＠pobox.com

> Wasn't there a Dennis Kitz speedup mod published in an old > 80 Micro article? He wrote a _bunch_ of articles containing > useful mods to the model 1... really an amazing guy. I wonder > what happened to him. Dennis is alive and well and may be contacted at bathory(a)maltedmedia.com.

28 years

1
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VAX 11/750 available

by sethm＠loomcom.com

Hello everyone, Just a quick "Rescue Needed" announcement. There is a VAX 11/750 available at WeirdStuff Warehouse in Sunnyvale, CA. Most of you Bay Area classic computer enthusiasts probably know where this place is. If not, visit http://www.weirdstuff.com/. The 11/750 doesn't have any paripherals, nor any disk, but it does appear to be fully populated with cards. Be the first one on your block to own a classic, proper VAX! Anyway, it's up for auction there. If I had infinite space and lots of time, I'd go get it myself, but I don't :) -Seth

28 years, 1 month

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Collecting Philosophy, was Re: Asshole

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Even if I had the room and time to pick up every machine that was headed for the dump, what can I do with several dozen PC clones? Same goes for other systems. It's interesting to have maybe a couple, but not the "8 PDP 11/34, 22 Atari ST, 15 Apple ][" I hear. >Well, not all of us have the time to work on every single system we get >our hands on. There are only so many hours in the day left over after >life stuff (ie. job, pets, family...) and this is just a side hobby for >me. My concern first is to at least get the computers to prevent them >from being disposed of and worry about getting them running later. > >> I collect for many reasons, amongst them : >> 1) The fun and mental challenge of restoring/repairing them. Fault >> finding can be interesting, you know > >I do it for the joy of being surrounded by such an ecclectic and expansive >collection of computers that span the innovation of two decades. When I >make enough money to relax for a couple months, I'll have fun restoring >and repairing them. > >> 2) Finding out what the machines I grew up dreaming of were really like. >> And the machines that came before them. I could never afford them when >> new, now I can play with them > >Same here. > >> 4) Tracing the history of certain features. To take a trivial example, >> IOBYTE at location 3 on CP/M can be traced back to the Intellec MCS8i. It >> was at location 3 on that machine (with the same format of 4 2-bit >> fields) as locations 0-2 were reserved for the reset jump instruction, so >> this was the first free RAM location. > >This is not only fun, but in my view, relevant. These are the sorts of >tidbits that, in my nerdy opion, would make a fascinating book: where all >the standards came from. > >> I won't claim I run all my 150+ machines all the time. I have a few that >> I run quite often (the PDP11/45, the PDP8/e, the PERQ 2, a TRS-80 M4, >> this PC/AT, etc). Others I only run from time to time when I need them. >> But I do try to have all my machines operational if at all possible. > >That's commendable, but there's not a lot of need on my end to have >everything running. There's a desire, but not a need. When my collection >goes on display, it will be desirable to have at least one of everything >in the collection working with usable software so that people studying the >artifact can get a better understanding of it. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. > > Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 04/08/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

2
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Do your homework!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<backplane. It's missing box/PSU and floppy, though, so it's not terribl <functional ATM. I'm sure someone has built something even smaller with <Falcon or similar. I've seen a 11/23, RQDX3, 512k ram, dlv11j(4 serial) and a mrv11 in a custom box using a RX50 and a 3.5"MFM 40meg disk that was quite small! The backplane was 6 dual slots. Smaller than than a PC minitower. Qbus PDP-11 systems can be quite small if non dec boxes are used. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Do your homework!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Actually, the PDT 11/150 ran quite well once they came out. I ran one fo <three years under RT11 with FB and multiterminal support. It's biggest <problem was comm overruns/underruns because the I/O was all handled by a <8080 (or was it an 8085). The 11/130 used DECtapes and the 11/110 was <downloaded. It used an 8085, and the manual stated the limits of the serial ports. However if the correct handshake was used it could run pretty fast. <The biggest problem with the PDT was the price, the fact it was not <easily expandable by third parties (no Qbus) and slow. Such was the ways of DEC at the time. Then again what would be added? <DEC repeated some of the same mistakes in the PC line in the 80's. (no <QBUS on the Pro, special i/o drivers, non-standard OS version). The pro used a better form factor than Qbus, otherwise it would have been huge. If you needed Q there was always the ba11 series boxen. POS on the other hand was strange. Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
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Do your homework!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<There was a small PDP-11 about the size of a MicroVax 2000. It was <called the PDT. It had an 11/03 CPU, 64KB, 8" floppy (RX01), and some It was about twice the size of the VS2000. I have one. As to static sensitivity mine is quite good and most I know of didn't have a heat problem. What I have encounterd was system with the fans replaced with quieter low volume fans that didn't do the job. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Donzelli

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Does anyone know William Donzelli's e-mail address? Donzelli, are you out there? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

2
1
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Asshole

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>I am much more bothered by conmans (read my other reply here). I collect for >the historical inportance and for the history of design of old electronics and >for what they meant in the lives of millions of persons. I don't even care if >something is working or not. It is going to end up behing glass anyway. I I find you sick. Very sick. Keep computers functional, working, cosmetics should come second. I'm sure that we could find a TRS-80 model 1 CASE somewhere for you. >can't possibly USE the more than 140 historical computer I have in my YES YOU COULD. >collection and don't even switch them on. I don't collect them for making them >work but to display them and help to teach children and people about their >importance in the hsitory of humanity. The appearance is (nearly) everything >to me and so a mumeric keypad where it should not be is a GREAT bother to me. So what the hell are you bitching about? You got what you asked for, and now, it's not a great bother to you. So what the %$&( if it's got a numeric keypad? It's not a GREAT bother to you, but you've been a GREAT bother to Cord and everyone else on the list. Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

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Do your homework!

by peacock＠simconv.com

> I've seen a small MicroVAX, but was there a small portable PDP-11? There was a small PDP-11 about the size of a MicroVax 2000. It was called the PDT. It had an 11/03 CPU, 64KB, 8" floppy (RX01), and some serial ports. RT-11 was the only supported OS as the floppy took a special driver. It was a real lemon, we had a few, proved to be very unreliable as they would constantly overheat. They were also susceptible to static discharge on the case, so they didn't work too well in carpeted offices. Jack Peacock

28 years, 1 month

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Do your homework!

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2601 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980413/4d47124f/at…

28 years, 1 month

2
2
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Asshole

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Enrico Tedeschi <e.tedeschi(a)ndirect.co.uk> wrote: >I can't believe that all this is happening and that there are no honest people >in this list that are letting this happen withour saying anything. OK Enrico, you asked for it. I'm going to say something. The recollection I have of what happened (from reading the original flamefest on the list) is that you and Cord were swapping computers, with you expecting a TRS-80 with Level I BASIC. And that is what you got, only when you got it you found that it had a numeric keypad, unlike the original stock TRS-80. So...no, I don't understand what you're so upset about, except that you got something that didn't look like what you expected based on your preconceived notions of what a "TRS-80 with Level I BASIC" should look like. Well, as it happens I don't know whether Radio Shack ever took to manufacturing all Model 1 TRS-80s with numeric keypads after some date, or whether the numeric keypad was included with the Level II BASIC upgrade (don't think so, at least not always), or whether it was available without a Level II BASIC upgrade. So I'd have been surprised by that keypad too, but for all I know it could have come >from the factory like that or been upgraded by its original owner, who wanted to do lots of numeric data entry on a Level I BASIC system. Really I think there's a valuable lesson to be learned here, namely when trading in old computers it's a good idea to do some research and have some idea what the scope of possible configurations is, so that if you are buying you will have some idea what sort of questions to ask to find out just what the seller is selling. Or if you are selling, so you will have some idea of what you are selling. Don't count on the seller knowing what's important to you, or even where what he's got fits in that scope of configurations -- he may not. Even if he's another computer collector and/or familiar with that manufacturer's equipment, he may not know -- the sorts of questions I read (and even some of those I write) tell me that most of us have a lot to learn about these old machines, and none of us know everything about all of them. And even with all that in mind, expect some surprises! For example, a while back I bought a couple of HP 9825s from some guy in Southern California. Looking at the HP Calculator Museum web pages and some of my old HP test/measurement catalogs, I expected that one of them (the 9825B I think) would have a "computer" keyboard with full-travel keys. I didn't bother asking. Surprise, when it arrived both had the older clicky desktop-calculator keyboard of the 9825A. I pointed this out to the seller and he didn't know, though he has seen 9825s with the full-travel keys. Maybe it was an A that got field-upgraded to a B? We don't know, and I didn't really see any point in getting bent out of shape about it -- I got what I wanted, learned something, and now I have a good excuse to get another one! -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Sorry, but this seems crazy to me. Was Ethernet invented in 1973? Was it 10MBps then? Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

7
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Do your homework!

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote: >Which one is that? I remember the Teraks being fairly small, and I think >I've seen a small MicroVAX, but was there a small portable PDP-11? The Terak main unit is about 18" x 12" x 8" DxWxH, the disk drive is the same form but about 5 1/2" tall. I remember DEC's MiniMINC, a white 11/03-ish machine roughly the same size as the Terak setup. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

2
1
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Do your homework!

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 13, 0:06, Allison J Parent wrote: > <Which one is that? I remember the Teraks being fairly small, and I thin > <I've seen a small MicroVAX, but was there a small portable PDP-11? > > I have an 11/23, 256k ram, dlv11j and MRV11 in a ba11va shoebox. > The floppy (RX02) is about 4 times the volume of the CPU! General Robotics made a single 8" RX02-compatible floppy in a box barely bigger than the drive itself, complete with carrying handle. A company I once worked for had one for field servoids. AFAIR it was a standard SA800 50-pin interface to connect to their own dual-height RXV controller. I've got an 11/03 (M7270) with MXV11-A and a Baydel dual-height F311 (like an RXV11, but interfaces to SA800 drives) with a 4-slot dual-width (not quad) backplane. It's missing box/PSU and floppy, though, so it's not terribly functional ATM. I'm sure someone has built something even smaller with a Falcon or similar. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

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VCF 1.0 Photo Gallery now online

by dastar＠wco.com

The Photo Gallery is now open on the Vintage Computer Festival web page. Photos from the exhibit hall of VCF 1.0 as well as the photos of the unveiling of the prototype Sol 20 by Lee Felsenstein and Bob Marsh are on display. The pictures show what VCF 1.0 was like and give you an indicator of what to expect at VCF2. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 04/13/98]

28 years, 1 month

1
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Reliability of floppy drives

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-04-12 19:13:50 EDT, you write: << Max Eskin wrote: > I have had too many 3.5" disks go bad, some my own, some not, not > to ask why. I mean, is it just a property of 3.5" disks to be > unreliable, or is something else? Are there any "industrial quality" > drives/disks that are reasonably reliable? >> grrr, i hate 3.5 disks! they seem unreliable. i have software on old 5.25 disks that have lasted longer than data on 1.44 floppies. could it be the density of the data on the disk that makes them unreliable? just a guess. david

28 years, 1 month

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NOS Bare Boards: What to do?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> I have a NOS SwTPc 6800 MP-A CPU board. This was the first SS-50 OK, I give up. What is the worls is NOS?

28 years, 1 month

4
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Modem for Apple ][gs?

by archive＠navix.net

Greets: I have a customer that is looking for a modem for his Apple ][gs. Admittadly, I don't know a whole lot about this area and some posts in the newsgroups haven't turned up much either. Anyway, I am wondering if some of you Apple experts could give me some more information on the types of modems available for the GS and any other pertinent information... such as, what type of interface is needed, software to use on the GS (terminal, etc.) and anything else you feel like throwing in. Also, I have several old Hayes 2400 baud external modems.... would these be compatible with the Apple ][gs? What else would I need to get this modem setup on that system? Any help in getting this guy set up would be appreciated. Sincerely, CORD COSLOR -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\|

28 years, 1 month

3
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Do your homework!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Which one is that? I remember the Teraks being fairly small, and I thin <I've seen a small MicroVAX, but was there a small portable PDP-11? I have an 11/23, 256k ram, dlv11j and MRV11 in a ba11va shoebox. that's a 11x13x4 inch box with 4 dual slots. I use it with a tu58 dectape in a box of the same size small and light system running rt11. Often the same box can be found with a 11/2, two MXV11 nultifunction cards and a RX02 controller. The floppy (RX02) is about 4 times the volume of the CPU! Allison

28 years, 1 month

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A%%****<---drop this too!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Please everyone, do not echo that nasty subject line. <IIRC, the Tandy modifications were the L2 basic board, 16K RAM, Numeric <keypad, and the lower case mod. All others were 3rd party. I could make a <slight case that 3rd party mods are slightly less original, but I'm not <going to press the point. I don't think Tandy ever offered a *2 speedup. The *2 speed up was not RS, however the concession was that machine modified with those in for repair would be serviced at normal rates if the mod was unrelated to the problem. If a new logic was required do to extensive damage the pricing was different (expensive). <They may well have offered various fixes to the cassette interface - I <don't know. They did! The best one was a little board with a 4040/4001 on it. <There were many 3rd party mods. I've seen a M1 with 48K RAM in the <keyboard unit. I've even seen one (much hacked) power up with a CASS? <prompt. Yes, it was running M3 BASIC. there were some rally nice mods too. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Wanted: Okimate 20 IBM interface

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Wanted: I have an Okidata Okimate 20 that presently has a Commodore "plug-n-print" interface in it and I'm in need of the IBM/Centronics "plug-n-print" interface for it. If someone has an IBM fitted Oki 20 but wants a Commodore interface (not likely) I'd like to evenly swap interfaces or if someone has just an interface for it for IBM I'd like to trade them something or buy it directly. Anyone? I need this for use with my portable PS/2 P70 when I go on jobs or such and need to print things of importance. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 1 month

1
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Collecting Philosophy, was @##****

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Hmmm... No flmes intended (and I hope we can agree to differ on this), Same here. Of the 25+ machines in my room all are operable at a moments notice some requiring being pluged in or a terminal plugged in. <but I really can't see the point in collecting non-working computers _and <keeping them that way_. Sure I get a lot of non-working machines, but the <first thing I do is attempt to find a technical manual or scheamatic and <repair them. Working machines are a lot more interesting. The case Same here. Though I do have some that while now are working and stored SBCs are less interesting to others. But a non-working system when aquired is always tested, fixed if possible then I decide if I care to have it in a location for easy use and access. If not I tend to pull it out and periodically run it to insure it stays operable. <I collect for many reasons, amongst them : < <1) The fun and mental challenge of restoring/repairing them. Fault <finding can be interesting, you know Same here, good mental exercise and what I learn can help others. <2) Finding out what the machines I grew up dreaming of were really like. <And the machines that came before them. I could never afford them when <new, now I can play with them Big time! Some were way out of my reach back when. <3) Doing things that you can't do on a modern machine. Many classics, <even minicomputers nd workstations are simple enough to understand <completely. It's fun to rewrite microcode. It's fun to trace data through <an ALU into the registers using a logic probe and 'scope. It's fun to <debug a floppy controller at gate level. And it's fun to boot a machine <from paper tape after toggling in the bootstrap from the panel I'll add that some of my older machines are working hardware in that they support a project or run software that I've not duplicated on the PC for performance or usability. <4) Tracing the history of certain features. To take a trivial example, <IOBYTE at location 3 on CP/M can be traced back to the Intellec MCS8i. It <was at location 3 on that machine (with the same format of 4 2-bit <fields) as locations 0-2 were reserved for the reset jump instruction, so <this was the first free RAM location. Or interfaces like SCSI when it was SASI. Or 8" floppies. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Reliability of floppy drives

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I have had too many 3.5" disks go bad, some my own, some not, not <to ask why. I mean, is it just a property of 3.5" disks to be <unreliable, or is something else? Are there any "industrial quality" <drives/disks that are reasonably reliable? It's something your doing as I've found 3.5" media to be about as reliable as I can ask for meaning they are amoung the best. Then again I also have 20year old 8" media that's still in use. There is no such thing as industrial strength drives or media. Heat and dirt are the biggest killers. All my systems use sony or teac drive as they are a bit better constructed and were available. However I ahve a 19$ drive that has been in use for about five years and refuses to quit! Im not timid about blowing out the dust and cleaning vents either! Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
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Asshole <- Solution

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-04-12 15:33:58 EDT, you write: << It seems to me that there is a Historical solution for this problem, that I gather worked very well in the far distant past. Enrico has become SUCH a pain, and it seems like most of the traffic of late is a result of his insistence not to let this drop. While he may or may not have a valid problem, I no longer care, and based on the way he's acting I would suspect the problem is on his end. Because of all of this I'd like to propose a rather drastic solution >> I'm tired of hearing him whine like a little kindergartner. Welcome to my killfile, Enrico! *PLONK* Lets get back to topic!

28 years, 1 month

1
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Mail filters

by djenner＠halcyon.com

Just another reminder that many email programs have killfiles and mail filters. Every time there is a spate of off-topic flaming or otherwise unnecessary verbage in this list, my list of mail filters grows a little longer. I now get almost no messages with profanity. It's also possible to filter out any individual who goes over the line in your estimation. I think this preferable to having additional "private lists". Of course, individuals can have correspondence with whomever they wish at any time, using personal mailing lists. Dave

28 years, 1 month

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Please -- Knock it off!

by kyrrin＠jps.net

I'm only going to say this once. I will make no replies to this post outside of private E-mail, and I will accept no arguments from those involved in the current flame-war that even HINT at attempted justification for their cluttering of the list. I have changed receipt of CLASSICCMP to 'ack' (non-digest) on my end so that I may easily killfile/filter the entire childish flame-war polluting this list, which the perpetrators of seem unwilling to take to private E-mail as should have happened when the thing first lit up. I am tired of reading about who's right, who's wrong, who's a con-artist and who's not, and who's doing what to whom and for how much. I am here for one purpose; to share knowledge of old hardware and software, specifically DECish stuff. Others, I'm going to assume, are here for the purpose of sharing knowledge of the systems they have interest in. I do not believe that anyone is here to share a flame-war. If the flame-war traffic continues in the form of list postings, I will begin filtering by author rather than by subject thread. This could cause me to miss something I value, or to fail to respond to a question that I could answer, but at this point I feel that risk is justified. Read my typing. TAKE YOUR STUPID FLAME-WAR TO E-MAIL! PLEASE! Thank you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 1 month

3
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PDP11 MMU / assembly language tutorial -- THANK YOU!

by maynard＠jmg.com

Folks, I'm still digesting all the responces from Allison, Tony, and Pete... but I wanted to thank you guys for satiating my curiosity. I'm clueless, but not thankless. :-) --jmg

28 years, 1 month

1
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Is this possible? (Storage) (Off-topic?)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Sorry, but this has been bugging me for quite some time. In Star Trek, they use "Isolinear" based memory circuts to store information in both the short and long term. So, from the looks of it, it's some kind of crystal, and can transmit it's data very quickly, and with no moving parts, so I'm guessing that it's similiar to today's RAM. Now, for the hard part: It can hold entire encyclopedia's in tiny amounts. In one episiode, they had nanites, little robot-bugs that could hold "gigabytes of information," and were microscopic. Furthermore, in some episodes, they find Chodak and T'Kon ruins, between 900,000 to 700,000 years old, with half or more of the data intact. Was crystaline storage ever attempted like this? Is it possible? Feasable? Thanks, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

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Asshole<---drop this too!

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>First stop it. Second, if you didn't understand it I believe the comment >was sarcastic IE: we could find you a trs-80 case but since you've been >such a pain it has become highly unlikely. Kind of right. I was saying that if it was REALLY NEEDED and you couldn't ignore a row of 5x4 keys or so on your TRS-80, that there's probably someone who has either a spare case, or a will to trade their keypad-less TRS for yours. >There was no offer to supply one and there was no agreement save for you >trying to instigate one. Exactly. However, seeing as it will make a fellow collector happy, should I stumble across the model you mention, I'll tell you, and probably pay for half or more of the shipping. >A trs-80 with a keypad (one of the earliest options!) is historically >valid. Also historically valid was lower case mod, 2x processor speed up >and several different ones applied to the cassette read. This is an >athoritive statment as I was in the employ for TANDY from 1976 through >1979 and did consulting for another year after that. Exactly. For instance, I'm getting a A2+ from Jeff Kaneko. At first, I just knew that I was getting a II+. That was it. Since then, I've been deligeted to find that it's 64K, has a DA/AD converter, serial cards, a Pocket Rocket language card, etc. installed. I asked for an Apple II+. I'm getting one. Sometimes, it's better than what you wanted, sometimes it's worse, sometimes it's just different. >If you say you wanted the "first trs80" you should have specified one >that must have the 170069A PWB, and no mods/option installed. That >would have gotten you a 4k L1 machine in the first production series >(under serial number 20,000 or so). You would have had to clarify if >serial number greater than 0 or 1 was acceptable. Your lack of >knowledge of RADIO SHACK computers and how they were sold from >introduction is your loss. As well as your apparant lack of flexability, and poor eMail writing skills. In any case, let us "BAD PEOPLE" who "don't care if we've got a conman on our hands" be bad people with a conman on our hands and STOP BITCHING ABOUT IT!!! Listen, you didn't get what you wanted. You did get what you asked for. Cord's been on this list a LOT longer than you have. If we annoy you, then unsubscribe. END OF STORY. Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

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available items for trade

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Available for trade: I have two computer memories hard disks of unknown origins. they are available as the processors on them are 6803s and 6522s in sockets and good for 6800 hacking. These are 1983-85 vintage. Also available for trade: Several copies of CP/M-80 2.2 manuals The programmers CP/M handbook (Osborne Associates, Andy Johnson-laird) -- next to cpm alteration guide a must have for bios design. -- mix of other DRI cpm manuals (sid, ddt, mac...), *star manauls (Wordstar, calcstar...), DbaseII and more. Roughly 33 boxes of 8" disks with CP/M CPMUG and SIGM volumes on them. This is a major cache of CPM software only exceeded by what on the WC cdrom. Two Visual 1050s, local only too heavy to ship monitor safely. These are CP/M-3 z80 systems with a 6502 doing the video (with graphics) in a pizza box case, two 5.25 floppies, provisions for hard disk and matching monitor and keyboard. I may be able to configure one 10mb hard disk. Disks and docs (including slipcase manuals) for them as well. Two 8" disks in cases(power supply) sa800s both working, to heavy to ship safely (opinion). One CCS 2200 s100 system (CCS cpu, discus controller, CCS floppy controller, CCS 4 port serial) and manuals. Circa 1980, shippable at high cost. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Asshole <- Solution

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Enrico has become SUCH a pain, and it seems like most of the traffic of <late is a result of his insistence not to let this drop. While he may o <may not have a valid problem, I no longer care, and based on the way he' <acting I would suspect the problem is on his end. Because of all of thi <I'd like to propose a rather drastic solution < <Shun Him! (in other words ignore him totally) This to me is a rehash of the dealing across the pond discussion from some 3-4 months ago. At the time I was one to say that shipping across the pond was more aggravation than it was worth even if there was profit in it. This is an example of why. Doing trades and shipping internationally are still enough of a annoyance >from my point of view to avoid them. Enrico's further galvanized me on that. Shipping is never as trivial as addressing a box and hoping it gets there and the cost is never trivial, at least to me. So when I do it I feel I should not be at risk doing it. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Asshole

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I promise that we CAN. I didn't say anything about willing to. However, should I come across one, you'll be the first to know. Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Enrico Tedeschi <e.tedeschi(a)ndirect.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, April 12, 1998 2:22 PM Subject: Re: Asshole >Is this a promise? > >enrico > >Hotze wrote: > I'm sure that we could find a TRS-80 model 1 CASE >> somewhere for you. > >> Tim D. Hotze > >-- >======================================================== >Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK >Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) >please visit my website at: <http://www.brighton-uk.com> >======================================================== > >

28 years, 1 month

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NOS Bare Boards: What to do?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> <> I have a NOS SwTPc 6800 MP-A CPU board. This was the first SS-50 <> <> OK, I give up. What is the worls is NOS? < <I think he means "New Old Stock". It's just lingo for something out of <production, but still in new, never-used condition. Makes more sense than Network Operating System NOS and 6800 in he same breath! ;-) Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Asshole<---drop this too!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: Enrico Tedeschi <e.tedeschi(a)ndirect.co.uk> <You did not say CAN but you said COULD and that, in my bad understanding <the English language, is an offer. But I am not going to argue about that <I gladly accept your kind offer now. Thank you. Hoping to hear from you s Enrico, First stop it. Second, if you didn't understand it I believe the comment was sarcastic IE: we could find you a trs-80 case but since you've been such a pain it has become highly unlikely. There was no offer to supply one and there was no agreement save for you trying to instigate one. A trs-80 with a keypad (one of the earliest options!) is historically valid. Also historically valid was lower case mod, 2x processor speed up and several different ones applied to the cassette read. This is an athoritive statment as I was in the employ for TANDY from 1976 through 1979 and did consulting for another year after that. If you say you wanted the "first trs80" you should have specified one that must have the 170069A PWB, and no mods/option installed. That would have gotten you a 4k L1 machine in the first production series (under serial number 20,000 or so). You would have had to clarify if serial number greater than 0 or 1 was acceptable. Your lack of knowledge of RADIO SHACK computers and how they were sold from introduction is your loss. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Asshole

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-04-12 07:24:27 EDT, you write: << >Hotze wrote: > I'm sure that we could find a TRS-80 model 1 CASE >> somewhere for you. > >> Tim D. Hotze >> well, i have a model 1 with a keypad that i could take a hacksaw to... david

28 years, 1 month

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CP/M for free...

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Just wanted to let everyone know that Caldera, which now owns all Digital Research software, has made CP/M freely available! I discovered this by accident when I went to download OpenDOS. Check it out at: http://www.caldera.com/dos/html/legacyindex.html They have a link to an unofficial CP/M page with tons of other software. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 1 month

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NOS Bare Boards: What to do?

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

>> From: "Jeff Kaneko" <Jeff.Kaneko(a)ifrsys.com >> >> Guys: >> >> Afer looking at a number of responses, Uncle Roger's position >> seems the most logical to me (besides, one other person suggested >> this also). I think I'll buy that parts to build this, and just keep >> it until needed. >> >> Building it won't be a priority, though. The MP-A wasn't exactly the >> best SS-50 CPU available. I have a NOS Thomas Instruments Super CPU, >> that I've wanted to build for years. Compared with other S-50 boards >> of that era, it had alot of cool features. I am working on getting a >> couple of scarce parts for its companion video board. >> >> Jeff From: Bill Yakowenko <yakowenk(a)cs.unc.edu> >One other thing, before soldering stuff onto that board, make a copy >of it. (Do photocopiers make decent prints of bare boards?) Once >a board has chips soldered onto it, it can be a pain to figure out >which things connect to what. Having a bare-board print could help >a lot in reverse-engineering the schematic (although I suspect there >are still MP-A schematics to be had out there). And who knows, you >might someday want to clone that board. > > Cheers, > Bill. There are not only schematics, but assembly instructions and a three color print showing the top traces in red, bottom traces in blue, and component placement in black. I picked an MP-Ab bare board and documentation at a hamfest a long time ago and never used it having gone with Percom's SBC/9 CPU board and Percom's Electric Window video board. If anybody absolutely needs copies of the docs, then I will see what I can do. Mike

28 years, 1 month

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Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:06:32 +0300, "Hotze" <photze(a)batelco.com.bh> wrote: >>Yeah, but could such a thing be done on Linux/UNIX OS's? I'm guessing that {snip} I'm sure that Microsoft used NT for their implementation, but aren't there Un*x-based NNTP servers available?? I think that there is a post in today's digest about it. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 1 month

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my objection to recent postings

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Sometimes advertising annoys me too. But when I think about it, maybe I'd rather have those ads than not. Someday maybe I'll get something I want from one of them if prices stay within reach. More recently, I've created a related dillemna of my own. I've been talking with a recycler, trying to convince him to offer whole boards or computers for sale, rather than just a few chips that he pulls from them. In doing so, I pointed out that an Altair sold for so much money recently. Of course, I also pointed out that that particular sale may have been a fluke, and he shouldn't necessarily expect that. The dillemna is this: these are exactly the kind of guys that will annoy me most. They have no inherent interest in preserving old machinery, and would have no remorse in melting down an Altair for twenty-three cents worth of metal. They will more than happy to behave as kidnappers, demanding ransom with rare artifacts at stake, happily driving prices up as high as they can. Of course, the obvious reply is about free-market economics, prices adjusting to meet demand, and all that. What I'm thinking is, maybe we should be glad that there is not yet a well-entrenched market for this old stuff, with guide-books establishing fair pricing and such. When that happens, scarcity will force all the old machines into the hands of rich know-nothing collectors, and out of the reach of the hackers who would cherish them for what they are. But how do we discourage that from happening, while at the same time trying to divert machinery from the acid-bath? The only argument that recyclers seem likely to listen to is about making money. But each time that argument gets used, it nudges us toward the day when all of our old computers lie decaying in display cabinets of the affluent, rather than living and working happily in our own basements. Ideas? Bill.

28 years, 1 month

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Creative Retrocomputing Use for 386s and 486s

by fauradon＠pclink.com

If you want it bad enough everything is possible. I do belive it is our duty to perform these tasks. An x1541 cable allows you to connect a commodore disk drive to a PC why not make it the other way around and use the PC as a disk drive "server" for the C64, VIC20 and C128? And that is only one thought. On a wall at Disney world or is that Epcot center (in the ) there is an inscription that says "If you can dream it, you can build it". The PC bus is so simple that even custom interface for the really wacky stuff can be built for a few $. I think Jameco still sells prototype boards for the ISA bus. Francois PS: I know this comes up regularly but... I'm changing ISPs What is the best way to deal with the address change? ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon -----Original Message----- From: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)retrocomputing.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, April 09, 1998 6:45 PM Subject: Creative Retrocomputing Use for 386s and 486s > >WIREHEAD'S CRAZY THOUGHT FOR THE DAY > >Using old 386 and 486 computers and their parallel ports to replace >missing peripherals from true retrocomputing systems. Hmmm... > >I wonder if a 386, for example, with a properly programmed parallel port >could emulate...say...a disk drive with a particular interface that you >can't find anymore. > >Interesting thought? > >Anthony Clifton - Wirehead >

28 years, 1 month

5
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BYTE Magazine Master Index?

by engine＠chac.org

At 01:51 4/12/98 -0500, Doug of Yowza wrote: >This was the only hit I got when looking for information about a portable >called the "Agilis System". Does anybody know if this system was actually >produced -- I can't find anything about it beyond the BYTE article (Aug >1989). If we're talking about the thing that was a bunch of wedge-shaped pieces that latched together, there were prototypes -- and I saw one -- but there were no production computers AFAIK. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 1 month

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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I seem to remember early Ethernet interface VAX quad cards < being around 1.5Mbps... not sure if it was think ether, vampire < tap stuff... This would have been before ethernet was turned < into a 'standard.' One guy I know has one of these hanging < from his wall along with some physical core for a PDP 11/44. I < was too young to have used to implemented this stuff, so I < can't claim to have actually _used_ such hardware. 802.. eithernet was always 10mbit/s. The 1.5mhz stuff was arcnet. They are similar in that they are both bus topology using CSMA/CD arbitration. Eithernet was a colaboration of Digital Eguipment corp, Intel and Xerox and was in the '70s called DIX eithernet. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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conman

by e.tedeschi＠ndirect.co.uk

This is NOT a private matter. I think it is my duty to warn others that there is a conman around. Regards enrico Russ Blakeman wrote: > Even though you live in the UK you're obviously not British, otherwise one small crack > at the buy would have been enough and you would have learned by your mistake. Isn't > this babbling enough already? Even if you got screwed, be a man and fac the fact that > from now on you need to be more careful. Drop the nasties and get onto enjoying your > computers. > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ # 1714857 > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ======================================================== Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) please visit my website at: <http://www.brighton-uk.com> ========================================================

28 years, 1 month

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DECMate

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Could someone tell me the URL of the PDP 8/DECmate archive? I keep losing it ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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NOS Bare Boards: What to do?

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

One other thing, before soldering stuff onto that board, make a copy of it. (Do photocopiers make decent prints of bare boards?) Once a board has chips soldered onto it, it can be a pain to figure out which things connect to what. Having a bare-board print could help a lot in reverse-engineering the schematic (although I suspect there are still MP-A schematics to be had out there). And who knows, you might someday want to clone that board. Cheers, Bill. ] From: "Jeff Kaneko" <Jeff.Kaneko(a)ifrsys.com> ] ] Guys: ] ] Afer looking at a number of responses, Uncle Roger's position ] seems the most logical to me (besides, one other person suggested ] this also). I think I'll buy that parts to build this, and just keep ] it until needed. ] ] Building it won't be a priority, though. The MP-A wasn't exactly the ] best SS-50 CPU available. I have a NOS Thomas Instruments Super CPU, ] that I've wanted to build for years. Compared with other S-50 boards ] of that era, it had alot of cool features. I am working on getting a ] couple of scarce parts for its companion video board. ] ] Jeff

28 years, 1 month

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i387's

by afritz＠iname.com

I realize that this may not quite reach the 10year mark, but not many people deal with even this old of hardware. (Is there a group out there for "obsolete" yet non-yet-classic hardware?) I need to find somewhere to get many i387 chips. (I currently need about 15 to 20 of them.) Anyone know the best place to start looking? Adam ---------- Adam Fritzler afritz(a)iname.com http://www.afritz.base.org ----------

28 years, 1 month

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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 11, 23:08, Tony Duell wrote: > > Some versions and OS vaiations allowed a 2KW IO space. I've run RT-11 > > that way. > > Yep, you're right. The standard on Unibus machines was for a 4kW I/O > space. I've seen PDP11/45's and PDP11/34's that were modified for 2kW I/O > space, and, indeed, undone the mods. Some Q-bus machines had 2kW I/O > space as standard, I think. The 11/03 is the most notable one with a 2KW I/O space, but that's a mod, not the standard. Quit commonly done, though, because it was only 16-bit address. > Didn't the 11/24 have an optional unibus map card (the KT24?) I've never > seen one - my 11/24 is a pretty minimal configuration. Yes, I've got one, and it is indeed 22-bit. The problem is, I only have the board set, not the backplane, front panel, etc. I have a spare backplane, and I once inrtended to rewire it and build a panel, but never found enough info (the second slot is wired to the first in a non-standard way, to accomodate the Unibus map connections). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

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TRS-80 configs/formally flamefest

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Well, as it happens I don't know whether Radio Shack ever took to <manufacturing all Model 1 TRS-80s with numeric keypads after some <date, or whether the numeric keypad was included with the Level II <BASIC upgrade (don't think so, at least not always), or whether it was <available without a Level II BASIC upgrade. So I'd have been <surprised by that keypad too, but for all I know it could have come <from the factory like that or been upgraded by its original owner, who <wanted to do lots of numeric data entry on a Level I BASIC system. Trs-80s early were level-1 basic and 4k ram. Later the ram, LII basic, and even the numeric keypad were offered as options or as factory models (often upgraded in the store!). Later ones had the keypad as standard and 16k as well becuase the 4k rams were actually getting scarce and the demand was for 16k. At any given point in the model one life where are variations in configurations such as three different circuit cards, at least three different keyboards and 5 different rom combinations! Also LII basic was not required to use either the keypad nor the 16k ram. For example L1 basic was either a two rom(or eprom) set or a single rom(eprom). The LII basic was initally a three roms set (eprom) on a seperate pigtail card but later ones used a two rom set that plugged into the base board with out the pigtail set. Also both basics were released using different vendors roms(erproms) that in some cases required a different dip header config or wire jumpers to use them. Even I who worked for tandy on the program was surpriced when I got a LII machine with a single peice extended keyboard (keyboard and numeric in one unit) that was apparently of late manufacture. It was however legit factory. Actually a rather pleasent surprize! Allison

28 years, 1 month

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test-drb