- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Nixies are also not a generic term; it's trademarked by, I believe, <Honeywell. When other manufacturers made similar displays (sometimes <incadescent, even) they were called "Numerons", "Numatrons", "Decatrons" <and various other terms. Quite often these displays were more dissimila <than similar, to tell you the truth (there were probably patent issues <involved in addition to trademark issues.) Yes patent issues and different drive methods. The decatron or Numatrons I forget which had 10 pins around the permimiter that would glow ehn active and there was a steering electrode to force a "shift up" or "shift down". They took advantage of the hysterisys of Neon gas displays (turns on at higher voltages than turn off. There was also a dot matrix display by burroughs "self scan" I have a 32 char version. Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
0
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Classic prices at eBay...

by mor＠crl.com

Man things over on eBay are getting hairy. A Sol-20 and IMSAI 8080 recently went for over $600 ea. And the Sol-20 may not have sold because the seller's "reserve price" was not even met... Currently there is a MITS Altair 680 at $1,825 and an Apple Lisa at $500, both with over 2 days to go until the deadline. Oh well, it's back to the old thrift and scrounge circuit for me. -- mor(a)crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/tps/

28 years, 1 month

5
5
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TS04 bootstrap?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Does anyone have the TS04 bootstrap? -------

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Another good week for museum

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Well it's be a good week but a little costly. Here's a short list; 1. The Sound Source by Disney lets have sound without a sound card hooks to printer port. 2. My second Mac Portable with case and manual, it works too! 3. Apple flat bed scanner model A9M0337 4. Zeos 386sx/20 powers up fine 5. 3M Whisper Writer 1000 teleprinter model 1482A 6. Hickok model 3301 digital multimeter 7. Heathkit utility voltmeter model 1M-17 042 8. Mac IIcx case with motherboard only had 8 1 meg simms in it (was free) 9. Fluke 901A Micro-system troubleshooter with manuals, service guides, newsletter and the following test PODs Fluke Z80/aa, Fluke 8085, Fluke 68000, Fluke 9900, Fluke 6800, Fluke 6809/6809E,Fluke 8086, Fluke 8080 10. HP colorpro model 74445A has power brick, manuals, color pins 11. Several packs of Fluke Instrument Accessory parts 12. Dr. Dobb's Essential Hypertalk Handbook 13. Computer Device miniterm 14. Monroe Beta 326 Scientist with manual and case, tape unit with power supply 15. Commodore PC-10III with KB and mouse 16. Tandy 1000 17 Commodore 128D 18. AGI 1700C 386sx/16 not tested yet 19. NEC multisync II not tested yet 20. Tandy 1000TL/3 model 25-1603 21. Tandy 1000HX manual 22. IBM PS/2 model 60 23. PB Legend I model PB686 24. TI99/4A in box 25. Commodore mouse 1351 26. Tandy RGB monitor CM-5 Well that's the short list there were alot more items and books but that's for anohter day. Keep Computing John

28 years, 1 month

2
1
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Support for obsolete products

by jfoust＠threedee.com

"Jeff Kaneko" <Jeff.Kaneko(a)ifrsys.com> >You know, this idea makes sense. But have a feeling that most >product managers (the guys most in the position to make these >decisions) are so far removed from the product, so intimidated by >the almighty 'Company Policy (tm)', (not to mention hair being way, >way too pointy) that even this will not get consideration. Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: >Well, I'm sure we all think that would be a Good Thing, but just try >convincing companies of that. OK, help me brainstorm arguments to persuade companies to release obsolete information. Certainly pointy-haired managers (does the cartoon "Dilbert" cross the pond?) will opt for the simple safe solution of "don't let anything out of the office, or out of our control". And there's the question of money to be made. As soon as someone seems interested in old technology, they'll believe there's still some money to be made. Then there's the question of the cost and trouble of drafting or approving any legal document to make the transaction official. Why spend money on giving away products? - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

8
9
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Low-end Unix (was: TI99: Anyone reading this with a TI-99/4A?)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 02:12 PM 5/3/98 -0400, you wrote: ><To my knowledge no flavor of unix runs on anything less than a 32-bit ><processor. There's a unix-workalike for the C-64/128, but that's not > >Your knowledge is limited. Unix was started and lived for years on >PDP-11s (a 16 bit machine) in the form of V5, V6, V7 and 2.9BSD and >2.11BSD. I may add it was on other machines like the Interdatas. I have heard tell (from a very reliable source) of a version of Unix written for the Radio Shack Model 100 (8085, 32K max). (And no, it's not available, and yes, he's tried to get the company that did it to release it.) I thought someone had said that CP/M was based on Unix? Or was that one of the PDP opsys? >I find the idea of not less than 32bits, 200mhz cpus and large memory >being a must to be patently retrorevisionist to the history of what was >done before those things were available. Yep. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

4
3
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TRS80 manual

by RTSJackson＠aol.com

I am trying to locate a manual for a TRS 80 model 100 or 102. Can you help? A photo-copy will do nicely. Thank you for your help. I'm located in Jackson, Mississippi. Steven Froehlich

28 years, 1 month

2
1
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Fwd: 75 lbs of DEC Ultrix manual for free

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

Found on comp.sys.dec - if interested please reply to the originator - webdolphin(a)my-dejanews.com This amounts to around 20-25 three ring binders, and is good information on Unix operations, processes, and commands even if you don't have Ultrix. Mike ------------------------------------------------------ Subject: 75 lbs of DEC Ultrix manual for free From: webdolphin(a)my-dejanews.com Date: Thu, May 7, 1998 15:59 EDT Message-id: <6it0a3$gki$1(a)nnrp1.dejanews.com> Hi all, Anyone interested in a complete set of Digital Ultrix manuals dating from 1990/1991? I am assuming they are complete, given a lot of them are still shrinkwrapped. Email me with your physical address with a Fedex or UPS account number if you want the stuff. Otherwise the box is going into the dumpster come next Thursday. Allister

28 years, 1 month

1
0
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the new Apple iMac

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Actually, if I were to design a computer, I would consider not <including a floppy drive, or at least making it so that it doesn't <depend on it. I have six VAX computers and NONE have floppies. Why, becuase even 1.44mb floppies make sense in that environment. Since they have tapes and are networked together floppy is of little use. With the size of applications and all a writeable CDrom or a ZIP disk makes more sense than floppy. Further, I'm working on a z280 design and am seriously considering no floppy. Why? Eats power and space for intermittent use at best. I'd rather use a utility I wrote years ago to transfer files via serial port (back when no two machines had the same format or size floppy). I even intend to put the whole OS and then some in EEprom as it's cheaper and faster that floppy or hard disk. Allison

28 years, 1 month

2
1
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the new Apple iMac

by dastar＠wco.com

Anyone see the new Apple iMac unveiled today? I like it. Instant classic. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/03/98]

28 years, 1 month

5
6
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(Same Apple Here?) Re: the new Apple iMac

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hi. It just occured to me: Apple is known (with the ][) to have pioneered low cost floppy drives. They're the ones that made it a good alternitive to tape. But still, I agree, floppies arn't really an important part today, other than a remembrance of the past. (Has anyone seen those "Download warehouses" wherer you download software?) Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, May 08, 1998 3:34 AM Subject: RE: the new Apple iMac >I don't know if I'd characterize the Sony 400K as "totally blameless", since >the floppy drives in all of my other old systems (both 5.25" and 3.5") have >about a 5% dead-on-acquire rate, while the Mac 128s I find are maybe 75% in >the dead floppy department. The 800K drives were much more reliable. The >big 400K chassis has lots of lubricant on it which after 10 years or so >turns into a rubber cement consistency and gums up the works. There's >nothing to do but to hit the whole thing with TV Tuner cleaner and re-lube >it. Pain in the butt, if you ask me. > >Kai > >-----Original Message----- >From: Kip Crosby [mailto:engine@chac.org] >Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 4:47 PM >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Subject: RE: the new Apple iMac > > >At 16:15 5/7/98 -0700, Kai wrote: >>One word: "Twiggy". (Lisa 1 floppy) > >Agreed, but: The Twiggy drive was superseded by the Sony 400K 3.5, which >worked fine in the Lisa, went on to work fine in the Mac 128, and has been >the progenitor of a line of totally blameless drives. If Steve is tarring >the 3.5 with the brush of the Twiggy, he's doing it in the teeth of >evidence that he's thoroughly familiar with. > >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html >Computer History Association of California >

28 years, 1 month

1
0
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Definition of an Analog(ue) Computer

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> <Now contrast this with an analog filter, which performs a singular <function based on the laws of physics. No instructions, no codes, no <processing unit. Therein lies the distinction. The explanations of physics is based on the core of mathmatics. That's one way to look at it. Consider it from the perspective of a mathmatics view. Signal goes in FNC(x) is performed on it and signal comes out. FNC(x) can be performed using a DSP or analog circuits >from the outside of the black box dos it make much difference how? Computing is a process of calculation. Analogue functions perform calculation vastly different than the digital forms it does not negate the calculation performed. If this wasn't true digial signal processing would not be possible. I still have the Popular Electronics article that simulates the bounce of a ball in analogue form using opamps while displaying it graphically on a scope. Yes the ball would even flatten at the bottom of the bounce. Years later I would write a program to do the same, the mathmatics were unchanged as where the physics. The analogue form was faster at showing how small changes had an effect, it could be real time. The digital form allowed me to express those as floatingpoint numbers. Even on a PDP11 at the time, it would never approach real time. Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
0
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the new Apple iMac

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

I don't know if I'd characterize the Sony 400K as "totally blameless", since the floppy drives in all of my other old systems (both 5.25" and 3.5") have about a 5% dead-on-acquire rate, while the Mac 128s I find are maybe 75% in the dead floppy department. The 800K drives were much more reliable. The big 400K chassis has lots of lubricant on it which after 10 years or so turns into a rubber cement consistency and gums up the works. There's nothing to do but to hit the whole thing with TV Tuner cleaner and re-lube it. Pain in the butt, if you ask me. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Kip Crosby [mailto:engine@chac.org] Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 4:47 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: the new Apple iMac At 16:15 5/7/98 -0700, Kai wrote: >One word: "Twiggy". (Lisa 1 floppy) Agreed, but: The Twiggy drive was superseded by the Sony 400K 3.5, which worked fine in the Lisa, went on to work fine in the Mac 128, and has been the progenitor of a line of totally blameless drives. If Steve is tarring the 3.5 with the brush of the Twiggy, he's doing it in the teeth of evidence that he's thoroughly familiar with. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 1 month

1
0
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the new Apple iMac (last words?)

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

>If this new Mac has no removeable media, what happens when the hard >drive breaks? How do you re-install the OS? No doubt you'll re-install the OS from the built-in CD-ROM drive, as all Apple machines already do now. > >Good plan, system administrators will love this machine. No doubt >corporate types will beat down Apple's door to buy it. Quite clearly, this machine is not designed as a Corporate machine. One look at the physical design alone is enough to establish that this is for home use. Apple continues to sell quite traditionally designed machines for THAT market segment. ---- And now that we've all hashed and re-hashed the merits of this day-old computer, can we return to discussing our 10-year old classics? Let's all agree to meet and re-evaluate the iMac in 2008.

28 years, 1 month

1
0
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Definition of an Analog(ue) Computer

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Non electronic digital _computers_ are a lot rarer. If we decide that a <computer has to have a sequence of operations and some kind of <conditional branching, I can't think of any at the moment. Mechanical <sequencers, based normally on camshafts are common, of course. You kidding, air logic has been around for years and frequently used in atmospheres or other considerations that would prohibit using electronic or electically power controls. The basic elements such as switchs valves and oneshots all exist and can be combined into digital functions. I know I demonstrated a system where several inputs (switches) had to be true before a sequenced action using two bistable elements and a oneshot. It's not fast but fun to watch! <Are you thinking of 'Digital circuits are built from analogue parts' ? Not a valid concept. both OR and AND gates can be done using totally non amplifying devices (diodes). It was Vonda that postulated that digital was analogue with a precision of two states, true and false. The realm of analogue is one of infinite precision but possibly of limited accuracy. The digital realm is one of limited precision and absolute accuracy. <As a practical point for this list, if just about all (analogue) circuits <are analogue computers, then they are on-topic here :-). No I don't As a final thought, analogue circuits often perform complex functions. This very aspect and the realization that precision and accuracy are very differnt commodities are why some fuction are easy to do using an analogue approach and can be very difficult to do digitally. Allison

28 years, 1 month

3
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the new Apple iMac

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I can imagine a floppy disk stealing his college thesis. Pretty likely, actually. AFAIK, though, NO NeXT has shipped with floppies, but rather with MOs, which are pretty annoying because of the many formats and price per disk. Actually, if I were to design a computer, I would consider not including a floppy drive, or at least making it so that it doesn't depend on it. Steve Jobs is known to hold grudges >personally against floppies. Did a floppy drive try to kill his sister? >Insult his family? Steal his college thesis and claim it as its own? > >Whatever grievous harm a floppy drive has done to him in the past, >it must have been quite bad for him to hold a grudge this long. > >> Tom > >-Seth > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

3
2
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the new Apple iMac

by engine＠chac.org

At 16:15 5/7/98 -0700, Kai wrote: >One word: "Twiggy". (Lisa 1 floppy) Agreed, but: The Twiggy drive was superseded by the Sony 400K 3.5, which worked fine in the Lisa, went on to work fine in the Mac 128, and has been the progenitor of a line of totally blameless drives. If Steve is tarring the 3.5 with the brush of the Twiggy, he's doing it in the teeth of evidence that he's thoroughly familiar with. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 1 month

1
0
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the new Apple iMac

by peacock＠simconv.com

Steve Jobs is known to hold grudges >personally against floppies. Did a floppy drive try to kill his sister? >Insult his family? Steal his college thesis and claim it as its own? One word....Twiggy Anyone who ever used a twiggy floppy drive would swear off floppies forever. Jack Peacock

28 years, 1 month

1
0
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terminal keyboards needed

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Well I found agood home for the otherwise in my way terminals and the new owner is in need of a keyboard for the VT 100 and the VT 220. A few people wrote me in the past but I'm not sure who it was but if you email me direct I can relay your message to this person in New Hamster and he can contact you about them. He is getting working units for the cost of shipping and I imagine he has some collection intent for them -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 1 month

2
1
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the new Apple iMac

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Steve Jobs is known to hold grudges >personally against floppies. Did a floppy drive try to kill his sister? >Insult his family? Steal his college thesis and claim it as its own? > >Whatever grievous harm a floppy drive has done to him in the past, >it must have been quite bad for him to hold a grudge this long. One word: "Twiggy". (Lisa 1 floppy) Kai

28 years, 1 month

1
0
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Whilt I sill have use of this camera, any requests?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I finished posting those pictures. http://linux.epchs.k12.il.us/dseagrav Does anyone want a picture of anything special in there? -------

28 years, 1 month

2
2
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the new Apple iMac

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

| -----Original Message----- | From: David Wollmann [mailto:dwollmann@ibmhelp.com] | Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 1:40 PM | To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers | Subject: Re: the new Apple iMac | | is/will there be a USB Zip drive? Nope. Kind of off the classic subject but... USB is for sound, keyboards, pointing devices, joysticks, single-user printers, and low-bandwidth video such as webcam/lowres videoconferencing/frame capture. USB is a low-speed bus that is already overwhelmed with all of these duties without dropping a very high bandwidth storage device on there as well. The last thing you want is for your mouse to get choppy when you print, for example. The "high speed" version of USB is only 1.5MBps and Dolby Digital AC-3 DVD audio can take half of that alone. We are strongly evangelizing against anyone doing fast storage devices for USB. IEEE1394/Firewire is the connection of choice for full motion video/editing, storage devices, workgroup printers, etc. Kai

28 years, 1 month

2
1
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Proposal: "Legacy" Open Products Partition

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

OK.. this is very quick, but basically, I want to outline the following points for making a way for old, no longer profitable hardware/software to make it available: Reasons To Change 1) Public relations. People who think that you're giving away info on products that your company made will have a profound effect on anyone involved. 2) No longer responsible for the information. You don't have to archive old data anymore, meaning that you can make information lean and clean. Support for old products can come from those who now hold the information. 3) Recieve credit for work. You (the company giving information) will get credit for your work, meaning that if someone thinks that Product A Rev. 1.x has innovation, then Product B 8.x will, too. Also, it means that you significantly increase your user base without costly advertising/marketing campaigns. Now, here's what I propose needs to happen to get this done: 1) Liscense agreement. This would be similiar to the GPL (in the fact that it's free, but does not bar anyone from profiting by information.) 2) Central orginazation. Something like GNU, but less proffesional. It would contain all archives collected, as well as user-made enhancements, notes or other docs. (For example: Getting a ST 251 to work under Linux/Windows) Then for support, tech. support reps. could reffer ceretain products to the orginiaztion and not waste any more time. This would prove to save companies time and money, especially if it saves training. 3) Petition would need to be made of lots of people (Founding members) willing to support this idea, weather through time, money, or just a name giving support. For the liscense agreement, we need to be as flexible as possible to get as much information as possible. So we'd have levels, where any information could be used for commercial purposes (building new drives based on information), where it could be used for referance (for instance fixing a drive), or for "small" commercial purposes. (For example, Fredrick's XT Part Shop could build new Seagate MFM drives/re-sell modified copies of PC-DOS 1.x, whereas Maxtor couldn't.) So, this is just a basic list, and I want it to get improved, then when we're sure we know what we want, finilize it, legalize it, put it on the web, and propose to hardware/software manufactuers. Just my 0.02 (with interests, no doubt.) Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

2
1
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the new Apple iMac

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>Anyone see the new Apple iMac unveiled today? I like it. Instant >classic. Has me excited. Beautiful design, fast G3 processor, really cheap...But does it have a SCSI port? A floppy drive? Those are two things I can't make do without. Tom

28 years, 1 month

4
3
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Data General's AOS operating system and its MP/OS operating syste m

by jconklin＠leydig.com

I am searching for a source of manuals and any related documentation for Data General's Advanced Operating System (AOS) and for its MP/OS operating system. The AOS ran on DGs Eclipse minicomputer. The MP/OS ran on DGs microprocessor-based MicoNova. Someone suggested you may be able to help. Can you? John Conklin (312) 616-5600

28 years, 1 month

1
0
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Zenith Z90

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2150 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980505/f571bb36/at…

28 years, 1 month

4
8
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Prototype Apple //c found

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: > Was "TERI" the codename for the Apple //c? Moby. At least that's what I get from this book I got turned onto: _AppleDesign: The Work of the Apple Industrial Design Group_, by Paul Kunkel, photos by Rick English, ISBN 1-888001-25-9, published by Graphis, 1997. Mini-review: |<00|_ pictures of computers and concept models and other things. Emphasis is on industrial design, not technology. The text is marred by typos and an overall feeling that the author thinks Apple and those responsible are just too cool for words. Maybe they are. Or maybe it's just that I've had enough of dealing with PC-contemptibles with funny disk-drive rails and the like that I'm not real tolerant of k00l kasewerk any more. They sure are pretty pictures, though.... -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

2
1
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Support for obsolete products

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I would also recommend that if you come across a company that helps with old systems like the story about the tape drive, be sure to let the company know their help is appreciated. hopefully that will still give them an incentive to continue to offer help. david

28 years, 1 month

2
1
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Definition of an Analog(ue) Computer

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<altering the computer (machine) is that there is a definite distinction <between the circuitry to drive the logic unit (CPU) and the circuitry <which defines the stored program (code). So while a masked ROM cannot b <altered, you can swap out the ROM with a new ROM with a completely <different set of instructions, while the rest of the circuitry which <executes the code remains unmodified. Apply that to the 8048 or other single chip mcu. <digital computers and not analogue. I think the murky area being argued <here is strictly pertaining to analog computers since it is indeed a <series of filters and amplifiers combined to manipulate analog signals. <digital computer is something quite different, and I think quite easy to <define. Thats the point. Many exceedingly simple looking analogue systems perform what would take a fairly complex digital system to simulate.

28 years, 1 month

4
5
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[Again!] New toy! Digital camera! Wanna see my pile?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Second try, doesn't look like the first one made it through. School bought a digital camera, and I get to play with it... I'll be posting pictures of my 11/44 Pile (GALAXIA) at http://linux.epchs.k12.il.us/dseagrav Go take a look! -------

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Microsoft BASIC 80 non-disclosure agreement

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:14 PM 5/5/98 +0100, you wrote: >When I call Tech Support I will have made some attempts to check the >obvious, gather evidence, and solve the problem. In particular : > >I'll have checked the 'bleeding obvious' - that it's plugged in, that I >am running the program I think I am running, etc Ah, but you are (especially for mainstream stuff) reasonably rare. The average I-bought-my-computer-at-circuit-city-and-got-a-free-hair-dryer idiot has done none of that. Most likely, he's tripped over the power cord and unplugged it, or tried to install a pirated game that had a virus and his hd is toast or... Which does, I agree, present a problem for those of us who *do* know what we're doing. There's nothing I hate more than having some nitwit read the manual to me. (Unless, of course, I'm calling because I don't have the manual.) Dunno if there's a solution. I try to find a knowledgeable support person for software/hardware I use a lot and make sure they know who I am and that I'm not a git. >I'll be sitting in front of my machine with a 'scope, logic analyser, >software debugger, etc at the ready "you're out there, man, like f***ing pluto." 8^) >IBM are better than most, at least for providing parts/manuals. They may >claim that a machine never existed (IBM UK told be there was 'no such >thing as a PC-jr'), but they can often find all sorts of things given a >part number or forms number. IBM does seem to be pretty good. I requested info about a couple of "PC-Radio's" I picked up, and got back a lot of info (albeit badly formatted. 8^) >Sending in bug reports (and even better, fixes) for ancient products is >great fun :-). I would think calling would be better still. 8^) >> And DON'T COPY ANY SOFTWARE. I don't even care if it was made by a >> criminal, it gives you no right to do the same. Yep. Fastest way to put a company out of business is to steal their product. Hmmm... Anyone want a copy of Microsoft Office? 8^) (JUST KIDDING!!!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

3
2
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New toy! Digital camera! Let's take pictures of my pile...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

School bought a digital camera, and I get to play with it! I'll be posting pictures at http://linux.epchs.k12.il.us/dseagrav until about 2:35 PM. (When school's out.) Go ahead and take a look! -------

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

What's an Emulex TC12?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Just dug one out of the board pile. What is it? Is it a 9-track controller? (Please, oh please...) -------

28 years, 1 month

2
4
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Do we belong on list?

by nhdirect＠tiac.net

Should our service be on your list? I have included a write up that we publish to selected newsgroups. Would our service be of interest to your members. David nhdirect(a)tiac.net New Hampshire Computer Flea Market ?Bring unwanted computer items to sell, and/or buy at bargain prices? Someone is looking for the computer hardware and software that you no longer use. Sell those items at the Computer Flea Market on Sunday May 10 from 9 AM to 2 PM, at Daniels Hall, Rt 4, Nottingham, NH. This is an excellent opportunity to turn your unwanted computer hardware & software, MAC or PC, games, etc., into cash, or purchase at bargain prices. Also just come to swap ideas with other local computer users. Free admission to those folks coming to look and possibly buy, and $5.00 admission for those bringing items to sell. Join us at the flea market on the 2nd Sunday of every month. Food & drink are available. Dealers are also welcome ($20.00 table charge, electricity included). Dealers should reserve display space by e-mailing nhdirect(a)tiac.net or calling 603 942-8525. Visit the Computer Flea Market web page at: http://www.tiac.net/users/nhdirect/flea.html Sponsored by S&D Associates

28 years, 1 month

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What's an Emulex TC12?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 6, 19:07, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > Subject: Re: What's an Emulex TC12? And I sent an unsigned repy. Normal sig has now been restored :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

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Low-end Unix (was: TI99: Anyone reading this with a TI-99/4A?)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

I have heard tell (from a very reliable source) of a version of Unix <written for the Radio Shack Model 100 (8085, 32K max). (And no, it's no <available, and yes, he's tried to get the company that did it to release Call me skeptical, 8085 is far less code efficient that z80. <I thought someone had said that CP/M was based on Unix? Or was that on <of the PDP opsys? CP/M was based on OS/8 and RT-11, it is very un-unix. DEC Ultrix-11 and Ultrix-32 are both unix based on BSD versions. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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the new Apple iMac

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I disagree. Apple, at least to me, represents that innovation can live in today's computer industry, and that being different makes you ahead, not behind of the crowd. (And yes, I thought that BEFORE Apple's current marketing campaign.) Looks cool, but I want more information, and, as most people go, they'll need reasons to want a $1.3K over a $600-$800 PC. Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Huw Davies <H.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 11:10 AM Subject: Re: the new Apple iMac >At 12:26 AM 07-05-98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: >> >>Anyone see the new Apple iMac unveiled today? I like it. Instant >>classic. > >The best comment so far at work was that after its useful life it would be >much easier to convert into a fishbowl. Just turn upside down and fill :-) > >Does look cool, but I'd like to touch one before committing one way or the >other. In my scheme of things, MacOS is about fourth or fifth choice. > > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au > Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 >1999 > La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the > Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"

28 years, 1 month

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Here's 2 morde boards to ID...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 6, 19:25, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > Anyway, what are the: > EMULEX SC03 It's a QBus controller for SMD drives. It will support two physical drives, making them emulate two (or more, if necessary) logical DEC drives. We need to know the suffix (SC03/A, SC03/B, SC03/C) as there are at least three versions, emulating different drives. I have an SC03 which emulates RM03s, but there's an MSCP version as well. I've got the manual for this one, too. > Dilog CQ2010 QBus communications controller of some sort. I don't know the details on this one, though. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

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[Try 3!] New toy! Digital camera. Wanna see my pile?

by root＠linux.epchs.k12.il.us

Try #3, I can't seem to mail out from toad... School got a new digital camera, and I get to play with it. I've posted pictures of my 11/44 (GALAXIA) [My Pile] up at http://linux.epchs.k12.il.us/dseagrav Enjoy! Now, can I borrow this sucker for a weekend...

28 years, 1 month

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Here's 2 morde boards to ID...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Wow, the lag is terrible! (FTping something...) Anyway, what are the: EMULEX SC03 Dilog CQ2010 -------

28 years, 1 month

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What's an Emulex TC12?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 6, 13:06, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > Subject: What's an Emulex TC12? > Just dug one out of the board pile. > What is it? > Is it a 9-track controller? (Please, oh please...) I think so; I expect it's the Unibus equivalent of my QBus TC02. I've got the manual if you need to ask about it.

28 years, 1 month

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Microsoft BASIC 80 non-disclosure agreement

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>Oh, I'll be gentle with them, and polite, at least to start with. But >when _I'm_ paying for the call (often at a premium rate), or even worse >am paying for so-called tech support, I expect a little more than a >person who treats me like somebody who can't even read. In other words I >expect _technical_ support on the product that they supplied me with. Exactly. I also expect if the technical support is not via phone (IE from e-mail, web based, etc.) to get a timely answer. With my old soundcard, it was 3 months, by which time I'd gotten so fed up I'd figured it out anyway. Now I use a real Sound Blaster AWE 64. I like the cool sound. >> Have you ever gotten a response? > >Other than the obvious 'we don't support that any more' or 'A bug in a 20 >year product, you must be mad to expect us to do anything about it', no, >not really. Well, yeah, but if you're lucky and get the right people... Or if you say that it had a "lifetime warranty." Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

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Serendipity

by bill_r＠inetnebr.com

I was at the scrap yard yesterday, picking up some aluminum blocks to play with on my new CNC milling machine, and decided to take a stroll out where they occasionally dump old mainframe parts. It's just this huge mud lot about 2 blocks square, with big mounds of twisted metal, wire, cable, crushed cars, and all kinds of other junk, with a bunch of bits of electronics thrown in more or less at random. I wasn't in the mood for a lot of climbing, so I just poked around the edges. I found a board about 18" square sitting on top of a barrel. When I picked it up, it was *way* too heavy for the size. Flipped it over and saw another, smaller board screwed to the bottom. It was marked "DataRAM". I thought "Oh no - surely not. It can't be core memory! But it's so *heavy*! What is it?" I took it along. I also found an old controller module of some kind with an RCA 1802 and support chips on it; now maybe I can finally build a real Elf. Anyway, they sell everything by the pound, and the two pieces cost me about $2. Brought it home, removed all the screws around the edge, pulled off the smaller board, and guess what? Acres of core! Tiny little ones, too - I haven't seen that much core, but the other small piece I have has cores with a center hole about the size of a pencil lead. These were so small they looked like grains of sand, or salt. Had to use a 12x magnifier to see them clearly. By my count, there are about 100 per inch in both directions, and it's about 8"x10", with a few gaps here and there, so this gives... ummm... (square root of 7, carry the 9...) uh... something under 800k-bits or so? Does this sound right? Anyway, I was pretty pumped. I may go back and do some serious climbing and burrowing this weekend... -Bill Richman bill_r(a)inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!)

28 years, 1 month

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FW: PDP-11/73 in NJ available

by kyrrin＠jps.net

I have no clue what this guy considers a 'serious' offer. Maybe someone on the list can 'offer' to haul it away...? ;-) Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On 04 May 1998 01:49:25 GMT, in vmsnet.pdp-11 you wrote: >>From: rmweiss(a)aol.com (RMWeiss) >>Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11 >>Subject: pdp11/73 for sale-fully functioning >>Lines: 6 >>Message-ID: <1998050401492500.VAA29644(a)ladder01.news.aol.com> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com >>X-Admin: news(a)aol.com >>Date: 04 May 1998 01:49:25 GMT >>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.burgoyne.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail >> >>located in New Jersey, very recently retired system. stand alone case, 1meg >>mem,160 meg Fujitsu drive, tape backup, peripherals, etc. Please address any >>serious offers and questions to Ronny at RMWeiss(a)aol.com or call (800) 526-3192 >>M-F 9-5 EDT. >>Thanks for your interest. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 1 month

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FW: FREE PDP-11/84's -- in Scotland!

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Here's a twist. Anyone in or near Scotland care to take a stab at this rescue? Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Wed, 6 May 1998 22:34:19 +0100, in vmsnet.pdp-11 you wrote: >>From: Ian A McDonald <iam(a)st-andrews.ac.uk> >>Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11 >>Subject: PDP-11/84's going free >>Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:34:19 +0100 >>Organization: St. Andrews University >>Lines: 23 >>Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980506223042.10932A-100000@maths> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: maths.st-and.ac.uk >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >>NNTP-Posting-User: iam >>X-Sender: iam(a)st-andrews.ac.uk >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!194.72.7.126!btnet-peer!btnet!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!st-and!maths!iam >> >>St. Andrews, Fife, Scotland >> >>2 off pdp-11/84 2mb >>Processors fine, >>disks dead, >> >>free to anyone who cares enough to save them from the skip. >>I know little about their internals, but we've been ordered to skip them. >>I'm hoping for a good home for them. >>Unfortunately, it's a buyer collect deal, but we're asking no money. >> >>-- >>Ian >> >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>Oh, God is playing marbles, >>With His Planets and his Stars, 1084 New Hall, >>Creating havoc through my life, St Andrews, >>With his influence on Mars ... Fife, >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 1 month

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The PC's Soviet?

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 03:56 29/04/98 -0400, you wrote: >Believe it or not, I think there *was* a "Lemon" Apple clone. My father >and I still occasionally joke about it. And we didn't get it from BYTE. True! Here in Italy there was a manufacturer that called theyr Apple clones "LEMON". ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONES ? ? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? ? Pager(DTMF PHONES)=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? ? where*=asterisk key |4 help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? ? e-mail=chemif(a)mbox.queen.it ? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

28 years, 1 month

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RSX-11 Disk Images anyone?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<be interested. Will they be SYSGEN-able? That's one thing I miss in <the RT-11 image that came with the emulator. But I'm not going to look <a gift horse in the mouth. Rt-11 does not require sysgening like RSX or RSTS So just the binaries of the standard monitors (SJ, FB, XM and BJ) and the standard drivers is all that's needed to use it effectively. RT-11 really only requires the disk used to boot to have the boot blocks installed (copy/boot) and it will run on all PDP11s and most all disks. Known disks supported in v5 were the all the RXnn drives regardless of controller (rx01/2/3/50/33) all the RD drives, RK drives, pro350(DW/DZ), TU58 tape(bootable and useable as system device) and most of the mag tapes. V5 includes a ramdisk called VM that can even be booted assuming you have plenty of ram. An 11/23 with 1meg ram running RT11FB will have plenty of space in VM (about 1900 blocks) for a useful system. I know as I run it on 11/03, 11/23, 11/73 using RL02, RD5x, RX50, RX33, rx02, TU58 and VM:. A useable system fits on any 256k(497 blocks) dual device (tu58 or RX01). A rx50(800blocks) system is fairly roomy. Any hard disk is fast and plenty of room even small 5meg(10,000 blocks) RD50s. The full V5 kit minus .mac files fits in about 4-5000 blocks. Removing the unused drivers and other misc files really cuts this down. A block is 512bytes. I didn't mention but RT-11 is NOT a memory hog and even a PDP-11 with 16kw can run a useful system. Being a low fat OS it is also very fast permitting even slow PDP-11 processors a chance to look good. It's basic commands look just like PC dos. An emulated V4 system should be useable to do PDP-11 program development and run standard monitors. the minimum hardware needed is any PDP11 (even the falcon card!) 16kw ram, mass storage (floppy or hard disk) and at least one DL serial line (console). The boot an even be toggled by hand. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Definition of an Analog(ue) Computer

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Allison quoted me as having written: > <What's that got to do with it? Diodes are analogue parts - the output > <(current) is a continuous function of the input (voltage), not a > <discrete one (to me the difference between an analogue and a digital > > Yes, but they don't (generally) amplify. I think you may be confusing my remark with Tony's. I remarked that "all circuits are amplifiers" meaning that the general circuit can be modelled as taking an input, applying some sort of gain, and producing an output. A gross oversimplification, but I wasn't talking about the active/passive issue (gain>1 => active, etc.) Tony made a slightly different remark, "Digital circuits are built with analogue parts". Unlike mine, this is not an oversimplification, it is absolutely true. And has nothing to do with amplifiers. You can build a digital circuit element with diodes; they are analogue parts, and they don't amplify. Clear now? > <component). In fact, Allison, you were saying only a few days ago that > <you don't need any amplification to make an analogue _computer_ (with > <which I agree - although some of your examples I wouldn't call > <computers). > > I still hold that amplification is a factor in the equation that an analog > function may contain but it is not required. I never (intensionally) disputed this! > This is an analogue function, take a shot at the equation it solves. I couldn't quite read your diagram, I'm afraid. Was it series capacitor followed by shunt diode? Looks like it refers the input to the lowest value it (the input) ever takes, rather than to ground or a fixed reference. > <For non-electronic digital computers, where do Facit mechanical > <calculators lie? I have one (which is driven by an electric motor but > > Computers, mechanical, fixed program. Roughly what I thought. I wasn't sure whether people would class it as a computer, but I think it is no less of one than a 4-function pocket calculator. [pneumatics] > You've not seen a modern production line that uses air logic. I've worked No. I've seen some of the components in catalogues, though, and wondered if they'd be of use in organ building, though! > on one that was used to produce pharaceuticals that were in flamable bases > (ethanol). There was some fairly complex logic in that system. Working Sounds fun! > with it is like designing with relays. I can imagine. Philip.

28 years, 1 month

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RSTS/E v8.0-07 filesystem limitations.

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Is there a limit to how big a RSTS filesystem can be? I'm told 8.0-07 doesn't support RA92s. But the fact that INIT knows what it is tells me otherwise. All I have to do is find the CMP instruction stopping me from formatting this disk and off we go. The question is, is the RSTS filesystem used in 8.0-07 able to handle a drive this size? Is there some filesystem-induced wall I'm about to walk into? -------

28 years, 1 month

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Prototype Apple //c found

by dastar＠wco.com

Of course everything I've dragged home in the last few months simply pales in comparison to the prototype Apple //c I brought home today. I was on my way back to work in the early afternoon and was trying to decide if I should stop at my favorite thrift store on the way which would put me in traffic, or if I should cut across the hills to get back quicker. I thought to myself that there may just be something at the thrift store that would make the trip worth it, so the thoughts of finding something cool won over my need to get back to the office. This is one case where I'm glad I let my irrational urges get the best of me. The first thing I saw when I got to the electronics section was an Apple //c, and I thought to myself, "Hmmm...do I want another //c?" (since I have like 3 already). But when I picked it up I noticed something strange about it. The case was smooth instead of having the normal texture. I flipped it over and noticed there was a small green sticker on the bottom instead of the normal grey one with the Apple //c wording and part numbers, etc. The sticker read "Apple Computer Inc., PCSD MFG, 3087 North First Street, San Jose, CA 95134" then the words "Prototype" and "Test Equipment" with check boxes next to each. "Prototype" was checked off. Of course phrases like "holy shit" went through my head. The label also had a serial number of "P1160" and at the bottom was "WARNING: PROPRIETARY PRODUCT". Now this was too cool for words to describe (<--- isn't that deliciously nerdy?) When I got home I opened it up along with a regular production //c and started comparing the motherboards of the two. There were several minor differences. Some silkscreen lettering was different and there were a couple minor component changes, but nothing significant and for the most part the board layout was identical. I pulled out the power supply on the prototype and the production model which unveiled the following: Prototype Production --------- ---------- TERI MAIN LOGIC MAIN LOGIC 820-0115-0 820-0115-C (c) 1983 APPLE COMPUTER APPLE COMPUTER (c) 1983 Was "TERI" the codename for the Apple //c? A couple other interesting differences: on the prototype, there was a small board with the labeling "Apple Computer Network SKA156-00" in the place near the serial port where on the production model is a simple transistor pack. The "network" board simply has transistors on it. Also, at location C19 on the proto is a 74LS161 whereas on the production there is a 1.8432 Mhz crystal. On the proto, the CHAR GEN EPROM is socketed and the system ROM is an EPROM with a sticker which has "v1.0 5/19 5F85" written on it. Lastly, for the motherboard product number (all Apple components have a product number in the form of xxx-xxxx-x) the proto had 6xx-xxxx-whereas the production has 612-0128-E. Oh yeah, the proto had a spider living in the connector of the power supply. Spiders find the stupidest places to spin their web. What the hell did he expect to come crawling through there!? I was just going to flick him off into the room but if my wife found him a couple days from now she would've fainted, so I did away with the poor little sucker. R.I.P. Here's where you envious types shoot yourself: I paid $2.98 for it. :) I've found some of the best stuff in thrift stores, but this beats all. It will be proudly displayed right next to my prototype Apple //gs at the next Vintage Computer Festival. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/03/98]

28 years, 1 month

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