- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Tony Duell wrote: > I'm pretty sure the teletype is a passive device and expects the other > device to source the loop current. > > 5V should be enough for the transmitter loop (which is just switch > contacts), but I doubt if it would be enough for the receiver loop (more > like 12V or more here) I used a TTY ASR-33 as a printer for my PET years ago. My memory is that if I left the receiver open circuit, i yammered away printing nulls; if I shorted out the loop it didn't. I interfaced it using one transistor - no power supply was necessary. +---------------------- | OUT b |/c -------/\/\/\/---------| NPN TTY |\e PET | -------------------------+---------------------- GND Note: I never interfaced the TTY transmitter - not even for reading paper tape (don't know why not) Philip.

28 years, 1 month

3
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Grundy Newbrain Computer wont power up.

by Andy.Keeble＠Royal-London-ins.co.uk

> -----Original Message----- > From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk [SMTP:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 7:15 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Grundy Newbrain Computer wont power up. > > > > > Can anyone help me bring an old British Computer back to life. > > > > Last night I bought a early 1980's Grundy Systems Newbrain "AD" > computer > > from an advert in the local newspaper. > > (See http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi/picts/newbrain.jpg) > > > > The machine is in good condition, with original manuals, cables, > psu, > > and even some software. > > > > Unfortunately it wont power up. > > I have the Newbrain schematics somewhere if that would be any help. > Unfortunately I don't have schematics for the PSU, but I think that's > a > pretty simple linear unit. [Keeble, Andy] I only had a quick look at it the previous night, but had a bit more in depth look last night. It does look like a PSU problem, and yes the PSU looks straghtforward enough. > > > > Turning on, the LED display flickers and goes blank (although the > manual > > Actually, it's a fluorescent anode display (see the other > thread...)... [Keeble, Andy] Indeed, I only saw a quick flash on power up, and presumed it was led. When I opened it up last night I got a better look. > > says it should do this, although I don't get a test pattern which I > > think I should) On the Television/video output I just get a white > > screen. > > > > Does anybody know if these machines suffered from any common faults? > > Check the PSU. The easiest way to do this is to check the 3 supply > lines > at the 4116 DRAM chips (+5V, +12V, -5V). If any are missing or > incorrect > then the machine won't power up. [Keeble, Andy] The PSU says something like +6v +12v and -13v. I found the +12v ok, but the other two outputs are showing +20v, so I guess its a voltage reg problem. (These are offload values). > Check the inter-board ribbon cables for broken wires (they're solid > core > and break easily). [Keeble, Andy] I will check that, but I suspect I may have already found the fault, due to the high readings from the psu, just hope it has damaged any chips in the machine? > Apart from that, if the PSU is OK, you're going to have to > troubleshoot > this one starting at the Z80 (what is it doing) and working through > the > logic. I don't know of any stock faults on these machines. [Keeble, Andy] I thought before spending hours, I would ask folks on the mailing list, just in case there were any common problems. I used to work in a computer shop in the early 80's and several makes of machines came in with the same fault. We didnt deal with Newbrain back then, so I didnt get any experience of them. If I get the PSU working, and find I need a schematic, would you be willing to scan a copy and email it, or photocopy and post it (I would pay any expenses). There seems to be little info about the Newbrain on the net, and I guess not that many still exist, so it seems a shame not to try and put some effort in trying to get this one working again. > -tony

28 years, 1 month

2
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Another strange z-80 / CP/M box...

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

Ok, whilst on the subject of big old CP/M machines.. I've got an old Philips P3800 machine, in a grey cabinet about 1 metre deep, maybe 80cm high and 40cm wide. Tracking down any info on it has proved impossible so far; has anyone got one of these they could share information about, or know anything about them? It was damaged in a flood a few years ago, the switchmode PSU in it has failed and just gives a whining noise when power is applied - I seem to remember I tried loading the PSU without connecting it up to the system backplane or drives, so I think it really has failed rather than there being a short or anything within the system. The hard drive (I *think* it was a10MB Seagate full-height, sadly my entire collection is a couple of hundred miles away from me so I can't check!) controller board went with a bang when power was applied - can I simply swap in another board from an identical drive in the hope that this'll work, or are boards calibrated in some way to their respective motors? I tried this swapping with another identical drive and the drive span up ok, so maybe it would work... I don't know what state the data on the drive it in though. Other info needed: Tape drive - mine is missing, having been put in another machine years ago. Anyone know what sort it was, and will the system run without it? Cabling - what sort of terminal could be connected to the cables hanging out the back of the machine? Are they RS232 in which case a vt100 could be used? Was there the concept of a console, or would the machine silently boot? What was needed to boot the machine? Would it boot from hard drive, or was a floppy needed? (I have zero docs and disks for this thing sadly...) Phew! That'll do for now I guess! :*) cheers, Jules

28 years, 1 month

2
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Kaypro problems

by homeline＠ezl.com

> >3) The fuse is fine, but the PSU won't start up. This is suprisingly >common (I've had it twice in the last month). Most small SMPSUs run the >control circuitry off one of the transformer outputs, which leads to a >bootstrap problem (the PSU can't run without the control circuit, but the >control circuit can't work without the PSU running). The solution is a >small circuit to give the control circuit enough power to start. In a lot >of cases this takes the form of a high-value resistor chain from the HT+ >(400V DC) line to the chopper control circuitry. And for some reason this >resistor open-circuits. It's worth checking all high-value resistors on >the primary side. > >When you've inspected the fuse, get back to us and we'll attempt to talk >you through the PSU... > >-tony > > > Well, I checked the fuse on the P/S, and its OK. So what is the next step? Is this something I can take to a repair shop. I know of a TV & stero shop that has worked wonders on an old Pioneer amplifier of mine. A P/S should be of no problem for them. I would like to attemp to fix my self, but I just don't have that sort of time at the moment! Or can anybody recommend someone I can send it (the power supply only) to for repair? Cliff Boyer

28 years, 1 month

2
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question - how to test DMA on peecees right way?

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Tony Duell wrote: >The first requirement is that you're mad. Now that you're foaming blue at the mouth, you could give the speech about how to use the keyboard interface chip to bring the 286 into real mode and back again... :-) - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

5
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RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

When was this thing with "computer literacy in schools is everything" started? I like computers in schools, but I am tired of looking at proposed plans to replace 5 MORE classrooms with computer labs. Is this a classic thing? Would you in general say that computers have affected education (keeping the discussion OnT, of course). > >> snoball wrote: >> > >> > Hi, I am a teacher here at the local elementary school in Humble, TX. To be >> > honest, the computer department here at the school is rather pathetic, two >> > Apple //e's and an XT that was donated that I can't get to work. To be >> > frank, these kids are going into a world where they are illiterate in the >> > basic workings of a computer. I hate to sound desperate, but I have just >> > exausted all leads I know to take on the matter. I saw your ad and thought >> >> Don't panic. Here in New Jersey, the kids are all experts at >> Nintendo (and some of the brighter lights at hacking security), >> but damned few can actually read the manuals. Remember, the >> most important component of "computer literacy" is "literacy". >> If the kids can read, they can learn computers. If they can't, >> there's not much else worth teaching them except to pee on the >> side of the dumpster the cops aren't watching. (I may be a bit >> prejudiced on the side of reading over computers -- I only have >> fifty-odd computers, I've got [half bought new] several thousand >> books, mostly the science fiction I've loved since before the >> "New Math" was introduced to my grade school [after I'd had the >> benefit of learning the stuff that worked].) >> -- >> Ward Griffiths >> They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >> Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. >> Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

2
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rt-11 programming

by CHUCK92124＠aol.com

i am looking for an RT-11 guru to modify some software for a PDP-11 system running RT-11 V4 year 2000 problem please call chuck@ 619-292-0911

28 years, 1 month

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list archives?

by g＠kurico.com

Hi, I just joined this list a couple of weeks ago and it is great. Lot's of great information. I have two quick list related questions. First, is this list being archived somewhere. Just in the two weeks I've been on, it's obvious that there is a huge amount of informational wealth being disseminated. And as any collector of older computers knows, information is the most essential element of collecting (that and software on the proper media). Second, does anyone know of any other lists that focus specifically on collecting? TIA George

28 years, 1 month

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Another EBay absurdity

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

>At 10:20 5/13/98 -0500, Russ wrote: >>....I don't see >>anyone paying up to $15000 for a 1977 Apple computer of any model. > >I have personally watched three Apple Ones sell for, respectively, $12,000, >$15,500, and $22,000. The high one was at the Computer Bowl a couple of >years ago, the other two were private collectors, and none was ours (the >one at Fry's). > >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html >Computer History Association of California > and there's a hint that one sold for $50K in the Apple docs online at http://www.grin.net/~cturley/USA2WUG/FOUNDING.MEMBERS/HOME.PAGES/STEVE.W/A1 /The%20Index.Page.html can anyone confirm this price?

28 years, 1 month

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Interesting c64 usage

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

Last weekend I was at a garage sale where I spotted a c64 with an interesting job. It was connected to a mixing board to provide automation. That is, the c64 was used to control the functions of the mixer so as to be able to repeast a setup exactly. Pretty neat, and I wouldn't have minded getting it (I've been lusting after 8-bus multichannel mixer for years) but I couldn't justify the $1300 the guy wanted for it. 8^( Came with an interface box, btw, that had the software in it (presumably in ROM) for the automation. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

3
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Displays needed

by kyrrin＠jps.net

This is a long shot, but what the hey... I have a 10 or so year-old satellite clock that gets its time signals from the GOES birds. It works very well indeed, but some of the display elements are beginning to get dim. It uses seven-segment neon-discharge displays. The first group of three is the day of the year. The next three pairs are hours/mins/secs. The day of year and seconds are the ones that are going dim. Does anyone know of a source for replacement displays of this type? (Are these what Burroughs called 'Panaplex?') Also, Daniel Seagraves has discovered that his RSTS 10.1 tape is trashed. Does anyone else happen to have RSTS 10.x on 9-track that they'd be willing to loan long enough for me to do a bit-copy of it? Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 1 month

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OS/2 Warp 3 Help... (Yes, off topic...)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-05-13 09:10:41 EDT, you write: << OK... remember that Arthur J. Carp fellow... well, I got a copy of Warp 3... 3.5" disks. (It's been a while...) Anyway, this is semi-on topic, as OS/2's a pretty good story, and older versions are classic. So here's the deal. I can get all the way to Disk 6, then I re-insert the Install diskette. Then, it asks me to reboot. I reboot, and it's not there. I also have Windows 95 on this system. So how do I: Get past that 2) Get to see the drive's contents (it's not the same C as FAT 32 sees >> if youve got win95 on there, you'll need to setup boot manager. i have two machines in a triple boot setup; pcdos7-win3.1/win95/warp and win95/nt/warp message me privately if more details are needed. david

28 years, 1 month

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Help Needed: Kaypro 10 HDD Problems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<controller identification. OEM'd WD100x's like those in the Kaypro and <Perkin-Elmer 7300/7350 Unix boxes do not have this feature (or <the debug program to use it). < <Bill <who owned a number of WD1001 and WD1002-HDO controllers. Err Bill, The kaypro had DDT (cpm debugger). ;) You are coorect in that the -HDO and SCSI version did not have the rom that the XT had to have to over come the limited bios in the machine that didn't know about the HD. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Another EBay absurdity

by adept＠mcs.com

I almost choked on my Leinenkugel's when I saw the current bid on the following: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=13839197 I'll save the surprise for you who want to check it out (it's a Commodore Educator 64) Cheers, Dan

28 years, 1 month

5
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Another EBay absurdity

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 03:28 AM 5/13/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: > >On Tue, 12 May 1998, The Adept wrote: > >> I almost choked on my Leinenkugel's when I saw the current bid on the >> following: > >What's a Leinenkugel, and how much will you sell it to me for? Wisconsin beer, see <http://www.leinie.com/>. Good stuff for $5.20 a six-pack of bottles. Just to keep it on topic, it's not far from Cray Research in Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin. Cray's web site doesn't advertise a real tour but there's a virtual one. Leinie's has a real tour with free beer. And if you're touring, don't forget the pie at the Norske Nook in Osseo. >Is this the Commie holy grail or something? I've never seen an old >Commodore go for over $500 before. Perhaps Someone should make a web site with reports of classic system sale prices, in order to balance the tales of $500 PETs with $5 PETs. Like anything else, so many other factors must be considered: rarity, condition, history, etc. - John

28 years, 1 month

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Another EBay absurdity

by bill.sheehan＠stoneweb.com

"The value of a thing Is what that thing will bring." - Ancient Legal Maxim Seriously, note that the last two bidders have a zero experience rating, and the high bidder is from AOL. We won't know what the third bid was until after the auction, but he's the only bidder I'd take seriously. By the bye, I recently bought a DEC terminal from this seller, and found them to be both conscientious and professional. The Adept <adept(a)mcs.com> on 05/12/98 09:54:08 PM Please respond to classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> cc: (bcc: Bill Sheehan/Corporate/SWEC) Subject: Another EBay absurdity I almost choked on my Leinenkugel's when I saw the current bid on the following: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=13839197 I'll save the surprise for you who want to check it out (it's a Commodore Educator 64) Cheers, Dan

28 years, 1 month

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Help Needed: Kaypro 10 HDD Problems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<c800:5) to make sure it contains a jmp instruction. Other locations <that I've seen include c800:6 and cc00:5. In an earlier mail the controller was moted as a WD1002HDO in a kaypro. That tells me mountains, one there is no ISA, NOT PC. The HDO is a host interface essentailly a gerneral interface like a PIO chip. Also the wd1002HDO has no boot or bios roms. The K10 is a z80 machine so c800:5 is not relevent as it's 16bit address. using VAX/VMS notation: $user1:> set device/flame_thrower/temp=plasma Most non-PC systems are _not_ PCs and applying PC part numbers, addresses methods, installation tools, device notation, buses, and dos operating system to the non PC results in confusion if not outright error. $user1:> set device/noflame Allison

28 years, 1 month

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strange z-80 / CP/M box

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Grant Zozman wrote: > Is the case white? > Is there a red power switch surrounded by black plastic at the lower > right corner on the front? > Do the drives close using levers which twist 90 > degrees? Is the keyboard also built into the case? > Does the screen blink off and on when the drives are being accessed? > Weighs as much as a pallette of bricks? > > If so, I believe you have a 5120 (or possibly a 5110). These were > produced around 1979-1980 just prior to the introduction of the PC. > They would run either BASIC or APL, and could be equipped with an > external disk drive module which was the size of a small filing > cabinet, rolled on casters, and housed two additional 8" drives. A > wide carriage dot matrix printer was also available. If I remember > correctly there are three connectors on the back of the case of the > computer in a triangular shape, with a threaded hole for a bolt in the > middle. This is where the printer & drive unit connected. > > You might want to look for a silver tag on the back of the machine; I > always thought IBM was pretty adament about putting a model number on > anything they produced, but I don't remember there being any tags on the > front of the machine I worked on years ago. > > Hope this helps! If you find out what you have, I would be > interested in knowing the final outcome; I have heard others refer to > a machine which fits this description as a "Datamaster", but have no > idea what would make it different from a 5110/5120. That mostly tallies with my memory of my Datamaster (which I haven't powered up in ages). Mine is a 5322, and calls itself System/23 I've never met the 5110 or 5120, I'm afraid. Word of warning: If you have a Datamaster and power it up without the printer it fails diagnostics. However, if you then press the Error Reset (or some such name) key, it goes on booting (into ROM BASIC) quite happily. But what's this in the subject line? IBM never made a Z80 CP/M box that I know of. The Datamaster had an 8085, but didn't run CPM AFAIK; the Displaywriter had an 8088 and ran CP/M86 as an option. (Displaywriter: Much more modern styling. Tilt and swivel screen, separate dual 8" disk unit, separate keyboard. Looked not unlike a PET 8032SK.) Philip.

28 years, 1 month

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HP terminal FS -one left

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Here's the last of the old and new terminal units I have - I have one remaining Hewlett Packard 700/44 with amber video. Has a current loop and rs-232 connector and comes with a like new keyboard. Works great, looks lke new. $15 plus shipping (22 lbs) or I may trade for a few odds-n-ends that equate to the cost. Of course the buyer pays the shipping unless a trade is worked out at an equivelant rate. Thanks to everyone for allowing me to put these up which also kept them out of the landfill. Many people out my way would have no idea what they are and they'd become dumpster filler if I hadn't found homes for items such asd the VT 100 and 131. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 1 month

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Teaching Students Computers... (Semi-OT)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hi. This is semi-off topic, but I'm sure that if any replies are made, it'll eventually spin off to someone's tales of their PDP-8 in high school, or their first VIC-20... Anyway, as much as I can complain that I'm not getting a decent computer-education in school, I owe a lot to them. My first year here in Bahrain, I had just got my computer (a blasing fast 486 33!!!), running (what else) Windows 3.1 and DOS 6.22. I didn't know how to type, just use basic functions. I could get on CompuServe (at least in the US), etc. but not do anything "powerfull" I could launch CD-ROMS, install programs since I was 8, in 3rd grade. Then, in school that year, I learned to type. A significant 40WAM. (I thought this was miserrable, but now in typing, many 7th graders got like 19's, 25's...) Anyway, that gave me my basic computer skills. Now, in 6th grade, when I next did serious typing (4th grade was a mess, I skipped 5th grade), I found that my typing increased to 80WAM. (WPM??) Now, I find it's at 100-140. I owe all that to the school. Without learning how to type, I would never have gotten interested in e-mail, programming, computer science, CAD, grapics, number crunching, UN*X, or hardware stuff. Then, earlier on this year, I was asked to help make a computer couse for my grade at school. For the first couple weeks we wouldn't have a computer lab. So I did what I thought would work: Talked about the workings of a computer. Terms like OS, HDD, RAM, CPU, bus, HTML, web, modem, etc. Since then, I've been working to set up a browser-based Intranet. It's been a heck of a lot of fun, if not educatonal. Just my $0.02... Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

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Help Needed: Kaypro 10 HDD Problems

by Marty＠itgonline.com

If all else fails you may want to try a low level format on the hard drive. Boot with a MS-Dos ver 2.10 or later, run debug. At the '_' prompt type in g=c800:5 which should access the controller rom and enable you to low level format (it is <crudely> menu driven). Your Tandon has 306 cylinders, 4 heads and 17 sectors per track. After the low level format procede with the high level partitioning and formatting. -Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Help Needed: Kaypro 10 HDD Problems Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 5/11/98 9:27 PM I recently added a Kaypro 10 to my collection, but it seems to have met with some rough handling in shipping. If anyone can shed some light on the problem described below, I would REALLY appreciate it (any Kaypro experts out there?) When I first fired it up, it booted from the hard drive right away. However, as soon as I tried to access the HD further, all I got were "Bad Sector" errors. Since then, the computer will no longer boot from the HD, and I can't access any information on it ( not a good sign :-( ). Using CP/M, I have tried to re-format the drive with no luck; all I get are "Verify Errors" as it tries to format. So much for the theory that the heads may have gotten knocked slightly out of alignment! Re-seating all connectors on the drive and controller didn't help either. I have pulled the drive from the computer and hooked it up outside the case. It does spin up to normal operating speed, and I can see the head stepper motor responding in a normal fashion when I attempt to access the drive (formatting, parking the heads, pulling a directory, etc.). None of the linkage to the heads seems damaged or broken; in fact the entire computer is in excellent shape and has not been abused. The hard drive activity light (which is controlled from the drive itself) also seems to respond normally. No untoward noises seem to come from the unit when it is operating, although I do hear some metallic "singing" during the last second or so just prior to the drive coming to a complete stop on power down. I'm not sure if this is just the brake mechanism, or if it is the heads against the platters (I do park the drive prior to powering off, though). Based on the above, I am assuming (wrongly so?) that the controller is probably working OK. It is a Western Digital WD1002-HDO. My hunch is that either the drive electronics or the drive itself have failed. Are there any other tests I should by trying? Am I correct to assume that it is the drive which has failed? The drive is a Tandon TM502 (10MB, MFM, 5 1/4" platters). If the drive cannot be salvaged, I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has a replacement drive, or knows of a source for same. I would like to keep the same make and model drive if possible, but an equivalent model would be fine too (as I'm sure Non Linear Systems used more than one make of drive in the Kaypro's). Any help is much appreciated! Grant Zozman gzozman(a)escape.ca ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998May11.212743.1767.41196; Mon, 11 May 1998 21:27:44 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id SAA14261; Mon, 11 May 1998 18:22:23 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id SAA46526 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Mon, 11 May 1998 18:22:15 -0700 Received: from wpg-01.escape.ca (root(a)wpg-01.escape.ca [198.163.232.254]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id SAA09739 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Mon, 11 May 1998 18:22:13 -0700 Received: from escape.ca (ts2dl081.escape.ca [198.163.234.81]) by wpg-01.escape.ca (8.8.7/8.7.5) with ESMTP id UAA21249 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Mon, 11 May 1998 20:22:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3557A4D5.E8EC2CE3(a)escape.ca> Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 20:24:38 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Grant Zozman <gzozman(a)escape.ca> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Help Needed: Kaypro 10 HDD Problems References: <199805112323.TAA12647(a)mail.cgocable.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years, 1 month

3
4
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Hello - I'm a new reader

by dpeschel＠u.washington.edu

... and I wanted to introduce myself. I'm a student at the University of Washington; I subscribed to the list in hopes that there would be some local members. So far, I'm not sure. Some of your names are familiar from alt.folklore.computers but many are new. I'm a computer-science major. Most CS majors here don't seem to be very interested in old machines, unfortunately. They must be dazzled by all the Windows NT machines we have (which were given to us by Intel and don't work very well, thanks to overstressed/inept/inconstant administration). I'll probably read more than I post -- I don't have detailed experience with the popular machines, because I don't _have_ the popular machines, because I live in a dorm room. But I do have experience with the Apple ][, and a Kaypro which I'm resurrecting (thanks to Don Maslin and his awe-inspiring collection of CP/M disks) and some HP calculators and some emulators on my Macintosh. By "popular" I mean "popular with the readers of this list," not "popular with people in general." So... who's from Washington? And BTW, is there a working Web site/archive/FAQ for this group? I can't seem to connect to the bothell machine, even though it's part of my own school. Thanks, -- Derek

28 years, 1 month

12
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Amiga 600HD questions

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Would you allow CP/M? BOCHS Unix emulator? Macintosh? I will say only one thing: don't try to go back - it will never be the same, and you will only be disappointed (yes, I know you're only kidding). I don't really use USENET because it's a pain... > >Hell, I was on the Usenet when it was just a partial feed from a >friend at Cal Tech to my little TRS-80 Model 16 two miles away >with its 15-Meg HD that could handle a month's worth of my partial >feed at a time (a full feed would have choked it in less than a >week -- if I could handle the bandwidth) at 1200 baud back in the >stone age (1986-7), when bang-path email could take a week or more >to turn around. Usenet was a bit surreal in those days of >_severely_ asynchronous communication (not the modems, just the >messages crossing paths). I loved it, and if the over-advertised >Internet keeps screwing up, 56Kbps modems (and 10-321 or whatever >the latest long distance cheap service is) would let us build a >better new Usenet than there used to be. And anybody who gave >the phone numbers to AOL, Hotmail, any such scum, or ever allowed >a binary file that wasn't uuencoded (and useful -- no hundred-part >fuzzy porn need apply) to go through would be flogged from all of >the L.sys or Systems files forever. Oh yeah, this would of course >be *nix based (Unix, Linux, Sunos, etc.) as the gods meant it to >be -- PCs are welcome only as terminal emulators if they're >hosting parasites such as Windows or MS-DOS. >-- >Ward Griffiths >They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. > Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Amiga 600HD questions

by K.J.Whitehead＠massey.ac.nz

I have been given an Amiga 600HD. It seems to work but wont boot. Investigation showed that althought there was a harddrive there was no power going to it. Does the machine use standard IDE drives, if so where did it poer up from, there is no power socket adjacent to the IDE socket on the board. I suppose that a Y cable connected to the supply going to the floppy would work. Cheers Keith Whitehead +----------- Keith Whitehead -----------+ | Physics and Chemistry Depts | | Massey University | | Palmerston North | | New Zealand | | | | Ph +64 6 350-5074 Fax +64 6 354-0207 | +------------------------------------------+

28 years, 1 month

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RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION

by manney＠lrbcg.com

Well, if someone will send me the 486's, I'll build and test 'em...that's my main business. -- I'm very low on everything, though, so I need your components. manney(a)lrbcg.com "Un sot trouve toujours un plus sot qui l'admire."

28 years, 1 month

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iMac update

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I'm sorry that this is OT, but I thought everyone should know that Apple has announced that upcoming laptops will NOT support SCSI or floppy drives (according to MSNBC). It's nice to know that now that Steve Jobs is back, Apple's gotten back to innovationg and changing stuff. I doubt the market cares, however. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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FS: Panasonic JR-200U

by manney＠lrbcg.com

Anyone interested in one? Excellent condition (still with packaging) and manuals. manney(a)lrbcg.com "Un sot trouve toujours un plus sot qui l'admire."

28 years, 1 month

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strange z-80 / CP/M box

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hmmm. Never heard of that but I don't think that's what he has. I had the impression that his drives are part of the main unit. Dammed shame your drives were scrapped out. I'd love to have one for my 5100. Joe At 08:49 PM 5/12/98 -0400, you wrote: >> It's not a 5100! They only had a single tape drive. > >No, IBM did have MASSIVE 8 inch drives for the 5100 (5108?). My system had >two of the small file cabinet sized things, but they were scrapped out. > >William Donzelli >william(a)ans.net > >

28 years, 1 month

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strange z-80 / CP/M box

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 02:22 PM 5/12/98 -0500, you wrote: > >I think we also acquired an IBM 5100. >This animal was without docs, but it boots to basic and has >a small mono screen and twin 8 inch drives. All the logic is >in one housing with the screen. I know someone was asking >around about such a computer recently. It's not a 5100! They only had a single tape drive. Joe

28 years, 1 month

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Hello - I'm a new reader / STUDENTS

by COAKLEY＠AC.GRIN.EDU

> Are there any students besides Derek on the list? Oh, what the heck. I'm a third-year Russian major at Grinnell College. And, just to keep this minimally on-topic, I have a minor Kaypro problem. My Kaypro 4 had one of its original floppy drives replaced with a half-height drive before I got it, leaving a gaping hole in the front. I wasn't thrilled about this even when the drive worked, but it's stopped working, so I want to get rid of it. Anybody have a source for full-height double-sided 5-1/4" floppy drives? Thanks, -- Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley(a)ac.grin.edu Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH Wow, this is global. -Mtn Goats

28 years, 1 month

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Commodore 128 cabling

by red＠bears.org

Hi. I picked up a C=128 with a pair of 1571 drives and a 1902 monitor at a thrift shop the other day. I'm a bit of a Commodore gumby---I only ever knew one guy who had one, and it was a C=64. I couldn't find any of the cables when I bought it. I actually did go back this morning and found a few of them, so I have a few questions. The 1902 monitor has 5- and 8-pin DIN connectors. The C=128 has 5- and 8-pin DIN connectors for video, along with a DE9f for 'RGBI'. The video cable I found has a 5-pin connection labelled 'Computer' and an 8-pin connection labelled 'Monitor'. This sounds pretty straightforward. So my question is, which jacks are used for what? Will I not be able to use 80 column mode with this cable? Should I wire a straight-through DIN-8 cable and use that instead of the one I have? What do I gain by using the RGBI connector? Would one of the Tandy RGB monitors work with it? The thrift has one, either a CM-3 or CM-5. I forget which. Also, I was unable to locate the power supply. I notice it has the same connection as my A500 supply, except the switch is on the CPU instead of the PS. Could I use the A500 supply on the C=128 until I can dig up a C=128 (or even C=64?) supply? ok r. PS; I'm still trying to find info on that TI-99/4A video cable. (:

28 years, 1 month

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Fun at lunch

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

My wife informed me today that she couldn't join me for lunch so I decided to take the time and spend it visiting a couple of thrifts here. Glad I did. I picked up a Commodore C64 (in the shorten C128 style case, sans power supply) just for the heck of it, it was only $0.80 along with a C2N Cassette drive and 2 Kraft KC3 PC/Apple 2 joysticks. Those are nice ones. But what really caught my eye was a small box in the back of the top shelf. It was a Radio Shack MC-10 Micro Color Computer, missing the power supply of course. I brought it back to the office and asked our sysadmin if he could load Office 98 on my new portable for me. He didn't know what to say. :-) Anyone have anything for the MC-10? Doc, software, etc. The other big find, to me anyway, was a book for $0.50, INTRODUCTION TO DEC SYSTEM-10: TIME-SHARING AND BATCH. This book is great! Now I just need a system to play with. More books and computers, that'll teach my wife to skip out on lunch. :-) ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

28 years, 1 month

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More Kaypro problems

by scottk5＠ibm.net

Re: More Kaypro problems On Mon, 11 May 1998, Cliff Boyer wrote: > Hello, > > My my name is Cliff Boyer and I too have a Kaypro 10 problem. > Sounds a little like a 12-Step meeting....hello, my name is Kirk and I have a Xerox 16/8 problem..:-) I'm having the same sort of problem with my Xerox, with a Shugart 512 10MB HDD. I can put the drive on another MFM controller and it will initialize and format just fine with no errors, but on the WD controller in the Xerox under CPM it takes hours and hours to initialize and verify...then when I try to make partititons, CPM reports an error, that there is data on the disk, and dumps me back to the initialization routine. Could this possibly be the controller and is there any alternative to spending $75.00 to get another one? Kirk Scott scottk5(a)ibm.net

28 years, 1 month

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Forward: Free Sun386i in Chelmsford MA [gwr@mc.com: Free Sun 386i]

by maynard＠jmg.com

Saw this on the 'current-users' netbsd list and figured some folks here might be interested. I cannot vouge for this gentleman, though I know he is one of the Sun-3 port maintainers for NetBSD and strongly suspect he's a 'nice guy.' ;-) - - --jmg - - ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:29:00 -0400 From: "Gordon W. Ross" <gwr(a)mc.com> To: current-users(a)NetBSD.ORG Subject: Free Sun 386i Delivered-To: current-users(a)NetBSD.ORG Anyone want a free Sun386i? It's the bigger one (server) model /25 or something like that. I forget. Color tube. It works, and has SunOS 4.0.3 as I recall, and DOSmerge. Way too heavy to ship. You pick it up in Chelmsford, MA. Pass this along. It goes to the scrap yard in a week. Apologies for the noise... Gordon

28 years, 1 month

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UNIVAC Core Memory Cards (Screens) Available

by drfcline＠netw.com

Re: Loren's Everly's question on May 11th concerning IBM 1500. About 20 years ago, against my wife's admonitions, I bought an old IBM 1500. I paid a bunch of kids to open core memory modules so that I could find and mount a core board and a controller card on the wall. I have a friend, Jack Harper, on the list who asked for a core card, and said he thought there might be others of you interested in this unique piece of history. I have pictures of them on my website at: www.netw.com/~DrFCline/ For those of you interested have a look, and contact me if you wish. Foster

28 years, 1 month

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Calculator displays

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Gas discharge has the cathode suspended in the gas, and it is the gas <around it that glows, not the surface of the cathode. I have never seen <a blue one, but I imagine argon is more likely than mercury vapour <(which radiates mostly UV). Argon and mercury vapor are both UV emitters. Mercury vapor actually requires a heater to insure there is enough vapor. They have higher ignition voltages makeing them less suitable for semiconductor drive. Vacuum florescent was predominent with LEDs before LCDs displaced them. Vfs had low power, good brightness, suitable for multiplexing (nixies didn't) and operating voltages suitable for PMOS, CMOS and other semiconductor drives. The standard blue green VF would filter well to yellow, green or blue and with other phosphors red and a distinct deep blue were also done. The actual visible elemets of VF tubes could be a dot matrix, 7, 9 12, 15, 16 or more segments or even arbitrary shapes and complete words like "door open" or "overrange" as a single element. Nixie required far to much power for handheld and even the smallest were quite tall. There were variations of the nixie theme using bars but all of the high voltage needs remain and the classic neon orange color. Of the non crt display technologies I have that are in use and working: incandesent: Numitron 7segment flatface in my first freqcounter (1974). VF: alpha numeric with complete words, the loran used in my plane. VF: alpha dot matrix 40 char by 2 lines display system (C 1980) NIXIE: Yasu 355D 350mhz frequency counter. Nixie alpha: Burroughs 32 char selfscan as ascii right entry display. LED numeric: SR11 calc, various small frequency counters, DVMs and pannel meters. LED alpha: A display system using HP6508 15segment leds, 32 chars long. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Grundy Newbrain Computer wont power up.

by Andy.Keeble＠Royal-London-ins.co.uk

Can anyone help me bring an old British Computer back to life. Last night I bought a early 1980's Grundy Systems Newbrain "AD" computer >from an advert in the local newspaper. (See http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi/picts/newbrain.jpg) The machine is in good condition, with original manuals, cables, psu, and even some software. Unfortunately it wont power up. Turning on, the LED display flickers and goes blank (although the manual says it should do this, although I don't get a test pattern which I think I should) On the Television/video output I just get a white screen. Does anybody know if these machines suffered from any common faults? There doesn't seem to be much information in any of the newsgroups, and apart from brief descriptions on web based computer museums, there is very little information available about this strange little computer. Any help or information, would be much appreciated. Andy

28 years, 1 month

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Calculator displays

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Many thanks to all who replied about calculator displays. The general consensus seems to be that it was probably a Sharp EL9, an early and large hand-held calc (I'm sure it was larger than my hand, but never mind) from the early 1970s. To clear up a few misconceptions: It was not a Nixie tube machine. I have a nixie tube calc and a nixie tube voltmeter, so I know what those are. Apart from the trademark issues, I regard Nixie tubes as being ones in which you have an electrode for each _character_ rather than each segment. Usually digits, but as Tim pointed out, other symbols were available. It was not a starburst display. I have seen 14 segment and 16 segment versions, but these are still based on straight lines, not curves, and the numerals are still the good old 7-segment ugly ones. It was also not the display I have in my other digital voltmeter (Dynamco, I think) which has as digits a multilayer Perspex sandwich. Each perspex layer has a dot pattern for a character drilled in it; you light up a character by illuminating the edge of the appropriate perspex wafer, and total internal reflection confines the light to that wafer, thus lighting up the dot pattern of only the one character. Neat. I shall have a look at the website someone mentioned - thanks. But meanwhile, can someone who has a Sharp please e-mail me with a brief description of the segments of this 8-or-9-segment display and which ones light up for which digits. Many thanks. (A bit of background: Talking to my mother about watches, she said she never liked digital watches because she found 7-segment characters hard to read. I remembered this Sharp system and decided to try and find out a bit more. I wonder if it would be possible to revive it for LCDs and things - I still think it is much more readable than 7 seg.) Philip.

28 years, 1 month

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Curious

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Anyone had problems lately with the list setting you to POSTPONE? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 1 month

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Crosspost - Osborne help needed

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

If anyone on the list can help this guy, please email him directly ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Dal Bianco <centenni(a)npiec.on.ca> Welland, ONT Canada - Tuesday, May 12, 1998 at 11:30:41 I have an Osborne Portable computer, Model OCC 1. I would like to get it up and running, but lack information on it such as operating system, start-up procedure and available memory. If anyone knows about this model of computer, please contact me. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 1 month

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PPP and seriel connection

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Now it is possible that the modems I had available then were different <from current ones, this was in 1993 and I was working with 1200 or 2400 <baud modems. No difference. DC on the line was used to sense off hook. It's possible to ignore the associated line status bit, standard software(dialers, terminal emulators" would likely look at it and indicate an error. Most modems use this to indicate a live line and not already in use. Carrier tone (dial tone) is the next level up to indicating a live line and dialing is possible. In any case if these are worked around one modem must be originate and the other answer so the signal sense is correct. While it could be handy and made for a real simple two wire interconnect it's slower than serial direct. <If you can give me references to documents describing modem and phone lin <electrical standards I would appreciate it. Not handy, I'm sure it's on the net. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Help Needed: Kaypro 10 HDD Problems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< If all else fails you may want to try a low level format on the hard < drive. Boot with a MS-Dos ver 2.10 or later, run debug. At the '_' < prompt type in g=c800:5 which should access the controller rom and < enable you to low level format (it is <crudely> menu driven). Your < Tandon has 306 cylinders, 4 heads and 17 sectors per track. After the < low level format procede with the high level partitioning and < formatting. < Marty That would work if it were a dos box. It's a kaypro CP/M machine with hard disk via host adaptor. However, in all likelyhood there are bad sectors on the drive and a FORMAT of the drive may clear the errors. The problem is that you need the floppies with the disk utilities to do that and restore the OS back to the disk (never minding all the other stuff on it). Unlike dos when I say FORMAT I mean literally a low level format of the media. This unlike the dos initializing of the media to dos file system. Formattig the media will erase all the data and files so if you didn't backup, you loose. How do the bad sectors arise? Heat, age and centrifical force assuming there were no mechanical or electrical events to munge the media. The older ST506/412 and similar drives tended to need a low level format from time to time over their mechanical life. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Amiga 600HD questions

by jfoust＠threedee.com

"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com> wrote: >If you have access to USENET the Amiga newsgroups are some of the best left >(man has USENET gone down hill since I first started using it). (Insert sound of crusty old man voice) "I was on the fricking net before they even called it the Internet!" >Just beware the euphoria is running extremally high with everyone waiting for >the big announcement from Amiga, Inc. at "World of Amiga" in London this >weekend. The hype is this announcement will change the face of computing, >PERIOD, and will feature some BIG names. (Insert sound of Monty Python "Black Knight" sketch, appropriate to Amigoids who hop around on one leg shouting "It's not dead yet.") - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

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What's an HP A900?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I found one in (probably) nonoperating condition. Just the CPU box, nothing else. What is it? -------

28 years, 1 month

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Calculator displays

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

>>> By your later e-mail, you have that image form some website. Good, as it >>> would be almost impossible to make a reasonable ascii sketch of it. They >>> glow blue (what gas is that? argon?) and are viewed through a green filter. >> >> Is it a gas discharge or a fluorescent anode? The latter are often green/blue > > I think gas discharge, as they have the mesh anode that you referred to > in another message. Hmmm. I'm not convinced. IIRC, vacuum fluorescent displays have a hot wire cathode (thin, hard to spot) at the front, a mesh electrode near the back (anode?) and targets with greyish paint on them at the back. These targets usually glow blue-greenish when hit by electrons. But it is the paint that glows. Gas discharge has the cathode suspended in the gas, and it is the gas around it that glows, not the surface of the cathode. I have never seen a blue one, but I imagine argon is more likely than mercury vapour (which radiates mostly UV). Philip.

28 years, 1 month

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Calculator displays

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

>> It was also not the display I have in my other digital voltmeter >> (Dynamco, I think) which has as digits a multilayer Perspex sandwich. >> Each perspex layer has a dot pattern for a character drilled in it; you >> light up a character by illuminating the edge of the appropriate perspex >> wafer, and total internal reflection confines the light to that wafer, >> thus lighting up the dot pattern of only the one character. Neat. > > I've seem those used with a 2-colour (black, or illuminated red) > background for +ve or -ve results. Problem is, I can never remember if > red is +ve (as an engineer would use) or -ve (as an accountant would > use)... Actually, didn't Dynamco do that on some of their voltmeters? IIRC my Dynamco uses red for negative. Philip.

28 years, 1 month

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question - how to test DMA on peecees right way?

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

Hmm, did you say that you had checkit? I thought that did test the DMA controllers... maybe not, been a long time since I've used it... cheers Jules >

28 years, 1 month

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TRS80 Model I Equipment

by gkatz001＠umaryland.edu

Alas, I have accepted a job offer that will take my family and me across the country into a home smaller than one we are currently renting. The Wife says that the Classic Computer Collection is NOT travelling with us. To be fair, if it DID move, I would have to store the equipment in a garage or something equally undesirable. The following equipment is in need of rescue: 3 TRS80 Model I CPU's two have keypads, one does not all are LEVEL II, 16K two have R/S lowercase mods, one has a non-R/S lc mod 2 Expansion Interface's both have 32K of RAM neither have functioning RS232 boards one has a buffered cable and SD controller one has non-buffered cable and R/S DD controller a single R/S RS232 board with a blown line driver chip might still be with us 4 R/S Shugart or Tandon Diskette Drives Two are Drive 0 designates with terminating resistors Two are Drive 1,2,3? without terminating resistors 1 VOXBOX - screws missing but functional at last test 1 TRS80 Voice Synthesizer - barely functioning at last test 1 TRS80 Line Printer 7 Box of Cassette-based tapes Unfortunately, three TRS80 Model I Monitors got tossed accidentally in a prior move, so I don't have any of these. The computers are currently located in central New Jersey. I am hoping that there is a local collector who would be interested in providing these guys with a loving home. I am currently located in Baltimore, so I can't ship them easily. Please reply via EMAIL if you are interested in retrieving these pieces of computing history. -Gary Katz

28 years, 1 month

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VCF2 dates & venue

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:18 AM 5/11/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Its now official...the Second Annual Vintage Computer Festival will be >held on September 26-27 at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa >Clara, California. On a similar note, there's going to be a World of Atari show in Las Vegas in August. Kinda like MacWorld, only for Atari's. (And much, much, bigger. 8^) Anyway, sounds like a lot of fun; unfortunately I won't be able to make it. However, the guy from Sacto said that if WoA is successful, he'll think about doing another Sacramento Atari Expo... So go, make it a big success... P.S., Sam, I forgot to mention that I'll be happy to bring over anything in my collection (except the big Symbolics machines or the HP3000 8^) to put on display, and I'll be after a table too, I think, to unload some of the Mac stuff Rachel's not using at school. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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PLease ID CD-ROM unit

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

This card also has some RAM-like chips. IF one were to assume that those are buffers, could one say that this is just a customized parallel port card? >> single female socket,37 pin. It is labelled CD-IFI3, and has an NEC >> D8255AC-5 chip on it. It is a standard 8-bit ISA. Could someone tell > >It's not much help but I can tell you that an 8255 is a pretty dumb 24 >line parallel I/O chip. It has the interesting feature that any write to >the mode control register (even if it doesn't change it) sets all output >lines to logic 0. That can make life interesting... > > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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