- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I am interested in purchasing the North Star Horizon. I am not local <and don't have a trade so would be a cash deal. < <Do you have any info about the machine such as amount of memory, type of <floppy(ies), last known operating system, hard drive (if any), keyboard, <monitor, and condition (working/nonworking). Why? It interests me why some one wants a particular machine especially since you do not seem to know much about it. FYI: NS* were setup with 16-62k of ram. There were three common OSs run on them NS*dos(nothing like PC dos), CP/M-80, there was also UCSD pascal P-system. I believe NS*dos reached at least V5.4. They didn't not use a monitor or keyboard as a terminal was commonly used. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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North Star Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> parallel port. In the 78-81 time frame, most video cards were 64char < <Probably 64*16 (exactly 1K characters). Easy to design and not wasteful <of RAM. Exactly aslo 64x16 was considered reasonable for TV via video modulator. <I've got some CCS bits here - Z80 CPU card, disk controller, CP/M master <disk and one of the boxes. It's about the smallest full S100 box I've <ever seen. Yep! I ahve two complete systems one has a Discus(morrow/thinkertoys) 8" 10mb(memorex 101) hard disk. Both are operational, have full docs for them. <CASU was a not-too-bad UK S100 manufacturer. The machines were certainly <stable. But they didn't design all their own cards - standard <configuration was a Cromemco Z-PU processor board and a Micromation <Doubler disk controller I think. Oh, with those wonderful <linear-positioner Persci drivers... Well the persci drives were uh, uhm interesting but the S100 boards are considered quite good. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Rubber keypad repair

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

This is semi-OT, but computers had these too (PDP-11 panel?) These are composed of a sheet of rubber with buttons stamped into it. On the other side of the sheet are black pieces of metal. After a while, these keypads start to wear out, and require more pressure or multiple tries. How can I fix this? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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IBM 5100 Manual Set

by dastar＠wco.com

Well, certainly the find of the day was the IBM 5100 manuals. I found them in a crusty used book store in a last-class indoor flea market, buried amongst old binders. I got the "APL Introduction" and "APL Reference Manual" and the "BASIC Introduction" and "BASIC Reference Manual". The BASIC portion is a photocopy of the original but the APL set is the original. By the way, there's a reason why you don't see Microsoft Visual APL these days. What a messed up language! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

28 years, 1 month

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Pens for HP 7475A plotter?

by snp＠niia.net

You should be able to find compatible pens at any drafting supply house that deals in plotter supplies. There are a couple of mail-order ones as well -- try looking in the ads in Cadence or Cadalyst magazines. You should be able to use almost any CAD package -- just contact the tech folks for the package as to which drivers to use if they don't specify the 7475. Paul Braun NerdWare

28 years, 1 month

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Slacker redemption time

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > Uh-huh. It's time to move out of my apartment. Is the HP 3000 any > good (in terms of how interesting it is)? Well, that depends how you define interesting. If you are thinking of the purported Chinese curse "may you live in interesting times", then I'd have to say no, they just work and don't try to be interesting at all. That's why I like 'em. On the other hand, they run an operating system called MPE that is interesting in that it's pretty much its own thing, so if you're thinking of the OS world in terms of "Windows" vs. "Unix" vs. "old stuff that isn't relevant any more" then this will expand your mind and maybe introduce you to interesting things like files that aren't just streams of bytes and pseudo-half-duplexish terminal I/O that is oriented toward transferring blocks of characters, not just one at a time. I looked at the URL that Greg Troutman posted. The description is about as clear as mud and somewhat less useful, but it does make clear that what is offered is a fairly large system. It's hard to say what an HP3000 is beyond "a minicomputer that runs MPE" because there are several different architectures (two major instruction-set flavors with several different hardware and I/O schemes) that could be inside the box. The series number is how you tell them apart; series >= 900 is PA-RISC and <= 70 (or with the name "Micro <mumble>" in place of a series) is the "classic" 16-bit stack-architecture. At a guess the system is a late-model "classic" (probably a Series 64/68/70), or an early-model PA-RISC (like a Series 950). If it is still supported by HP, HP is probably real close to dropping hardware maintenance on it. Oh yeah, that some of the classics are called "Micro" is a hint: they're smaller, lighter, and their Thirst for Power may be satisfied with residential electrical service. -Frank McConnell "I want my MPE" (w/apologies to Dire Straits)

28 years, 1 month

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Pens for HP 7475A plotter?

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: > I just picked up an HP 7475A Plotter ($5) and want to get it working. > Anyone know where I can get a set of pens for it? Also, what software can > use this thing? It has an RS-232 port. Hmm, looks like HP discontinued all the pens and stuff in late 1995. They now suggest calling some other vendors who I guess may still make the pens. See http://www.hp.com/cposupport/plotters/support_doc/bpp01965.html for names and numbers. Or just go to http://www.hp.com, click on the "search" link, type in "plotter pens" and click the <mumble> button. That will get you to a bunch of documents of varying usefulness including the above. Sometimes you can turn up new-old-stock fiber-tip pens in the usual places (swap meet, with other old computer stuff, &c). NOS in this case means still sealed in a foil bag that has a "use by" date. I've no idea how well the pens keep past that date, but those are the sorts of things we used to use with the plotters in an office environment. What might be better at this point in time is to look for refillable drafting pens. I don't know, I've never tried to use those. As for software, the FAQ says that there are Win3.1 and Win95 printer drivers for these things! Imagine that...no, actually, I think I'd rather not. What the plotter really wants to see is called HP-GL; it's pretty much a command language with pen-motion primitives for drawing lines and text. I can't remember how much you could get it to do w/r/t shapes and filling or whether you had to do that on the computer side and turn it into an HP-GL sequence for the plotter. Check your ObClassic Graphics Package to see if it can spit out HP-GL. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

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Pens for HP 7475A plotter?

by dastar＠wco.com

I just picked up an HP 7475A Plotter ($5) and want to get it working. Anyone know where I can get a set of pens for it? Also, what software can use this thing? It has an RS-232 port. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

28 years, 1 month

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Bits to give away

by mtapley＠swri.edu

All, Got something I can't use and hope one of you can. Available for cost of shipping (or free for pickup in San Antonio, Texas). 1 ea. Vertical floor pedestal case for Dec Rainbow. Encloses the Rainbow system unit and holds it vertical so it's a tower configuration. Has nice vents top and bottom and exits top and bottom for power and monitor/keyboard cables. Won't work with *my* Rainbow. Causes the computer to hang, crash, or otherwise fail either on installation or a few minutes later. My motherboard is pretty loaded up with daughtercards and I'll bet one of them is vibrating or jarring loose in the vertical orientation. I decided I can live with a desktop Rainbow as opposed to a floor tower. One other quirk, the cooling air flows *down* in this setup. The fan has to fight gravity to cool the system. On the other hand, at least it doesn't suck dirt off the floor into the system's innards. Anyone interested, contact me at mtapley(a)swri.edu - Mark

28 years, 1 month

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North Star Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Truely rare: PDP1/4/5/6/9 Collectively there may have been 3000 total. <PERQ 3a, PERQ 2T4 (a lot rarer than the 3a, BTW), HH Tiger ?, AMT DAP <(?), Tandy Deluxe CoCo, PDP11/74, HP95-C (OK, it's a calculator), Philips 11/74, there were at most 4 possibly 5 constructed and all 4 within DEC were disassembled and used as 11/70s or scrapped. The fifth was at CMU and that was also scrapped. NEver made it to production as it was more powerful that vax780 and would never pass EMI/RFI standards that were appearing. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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IBM 5100 Manual Set

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, 17 May 1998 8:07 Subject: IBM 5100 Manual Set > >Well, certainly the find of the day was the IBM 5100 manuals. I found >them in a crusty used book store in a last-class indoor flea market, >buried amongst old binders. > >I got the "APL Introduction" and "APL Reference Manual" and the "BASIC >Introduction" and "BASIC Reference Manual". The BASIC portion is a >photocopy of the original but the APL set is the original. By the way, >there's a reason why you don't see Microsoft Visual APL these days. What >a messed up language! > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 05/11/98] > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm yeah there is lots of good finds out there if you take the trouble to look for them..... I love digging around at my local 'tip shop' for old computers and books....

28 years, 1 month

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North Star Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> CCS, compupro, altos, Vector and a few others had S100 boxen that were <> equal or better (compupro was really good!). < <Altos, Allison? All of the ones that I have ever seen were essentially <single board computers. Don, Single board as in s100 or single board as in no bus? The early ones were SBC s100 though it ws common to put them in a box with more IO, hard disk or customer unique periperals. There were several single board systems that were s100 bus, SDS, teltek, macrotec were a few. Some were complete systems on one card others required FDC or other IO, most could be extended using hard disk controllers, more IO or multiple processors. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Hello - I'm a new reader / STUDENTS

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:25 PM 5/13/98 -0400, you wrote: >last Friday May 8th -- coincidentally the 10th anniversary of the >death of Robert A. Heinlein {who wrote about the most _likeable_ Ummm... hate to be nit-picky, but RAH passed on while I was working with Aetna, about 5? years ago... I remember; I cried. (Jerry Garcia was when I was at Longs, the first time around.)

28 years, 1 month

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RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:26 PM 5/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >The problem with introducing elementary and middle school kids to >computers so early is that they either a) know more than the lab admin, or >b) aren't allowed to use them in any constructive way. I'm only in the >tenth grade, but I've already seen seven new labs installed in area schools. >The school districts almost ALWAYS spend WAY too much on new computers, The problem there isn't that computers are a waste of money; it's that the educators aren't knowledgeable enough to know how to put them to use. It would be better to buy a few less computers and send the teachers to a course on how to integrate computers into their curriculum. My girlfriend does a wonderful job of putting computers to work. So does the rest of her school. But she has an advantage; not only did she grow up/lives in SF (where computers are overly prevalent) but she has me for a boyfriend, one brother is a successful programmer/sysadmin, and the other one is going to school for the same. She has spread herknowledge/skills to the rest of the school. >aren't used until high school, when word processing/database, programming, A shame and a waste. >and other such courses are offered. Anything before is mainly a waste of >money. Not true. Computers without training (as in ANY industry) are a waste of time. Computers in the hands of educators who nkow what they're doing is an incredibly powerful tool. >What about the 'net? I don't understand why people think that the >internet is such a great "tool" that will help schools. Just do a search >for "barbie" on Yahoo. Or, for that matter, try "video" or something The 'net is a tool for communication, excellent at bringing together people of disparate backgrounds. Just as we're doing here. I've a friend who's on his way back from South Africa; when he gets back, he and Rachel are going to get together to see about getting kids there talking with kids here. It is also an excellent reference. Sure, putting a single word into Yahoo's search engine will get you all kinds of (irrelevant) hits, but something like AltaVista's search syntax is incredible, if you know how to use it, and it does promote thinking about your problem/goal to come up with the keywords that will return the most relevant hits. >In other words, most of the money spent on computer equipment is a waste. Well, send 'em out here to Garden Village Elementary in Daly City. They'll put 'em to use.

28 years, 1 month

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Visual Computer Inc. Commuter US

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 04:22 PM 5/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >Anyone heard of such a beast. It's a rather large "laptop" with a scrunched lcd >display. Has two half height 5 1/4 floppies. From the keyboard it looks like a >pc clone, but it also has a db25 terminal out port on the back. Yep. Got one. It is a semi-compatible PC, iirc.

28 years, 1 month

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North Star Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<[NS* terminal .vs. video board] < <Oh, agreed. The original Horizon configuration was to have a serial <terminal. I seem to recall a pair of 8251-based serial ports on the <motherboard, one of which was used for this. There was exactly that, two serial ports, a hearbeat interrupt and a parallel port. In the 78-81 time frame, most video cards were 64char and only some had decenders. Terminals onthe other hand were 80char, full upper/lowercase and generally required less software than a memory mapped display. <a serial port (and a standard MDA card), etc), I wondered if a Horizon co <be set up with an S100 video card as well. I guess it can. Most s100 crates could be...even a SOL could ahve more than one! <YEs, it does look to be a nice machine. One day, when I've got a few <minuts spare, I'll dig mine out again and look at it more seriously. After working with the Altairs noisy bus and toggling boot loaders it was a pleasure to see good signals and boot on reset. The IMSAI was a better machine than altair but when I moved up I really didn't want a front pannel and I needed more serial IO, the NS* box, CPU and the MDS I had in the altair solved most of my problems. CCS, compupro, altos, Vector and a few others had S100 boxen that were equal or better (compupro was really good!). Allison

28 years, 1 month

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North Star Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au < desieh(a)bigfoot.com < museum_curator(a)hotmail.com <Apple Lisa Web Page: <http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm < <I have own a NorthStar Horizon very nice little computer abit heavy, mine <in the wooden box and has a pair of 5 1/4" floppy drives in the front an <yes it runs off an terminal..... Of course it does, mine has for 20 years! <mine even has full docs and the origianl receipt of purchates from aroun <1976..... Try '78 or very late 77 as the MDS floppy predated the horizon. <many of the cards inside it arom from an Altair if my memory is correct.. <A VDM -1? i think thats whats its called...anyway in the manual for this <video card it has the source code for the programmng code for a Altair an <IMSAl mechines.... Yes, still have my VDM-1 (from 1976) and the docs for it. Originally used in my altair. Brief history: I started with S100 in 1975 with the order of my altair (box, 4k, acr and PIO) assembled it in early january 1975. Here in the US the article was December 1974, I ordered as soon as I recieved the magazine (Popular electronics), so it has a low serial number. Over time It was extended with more ran and a VDM-1. Within a few months the NS* MDS floppy was offered and I bought the kit, still have that too. The Altair with it's noisy bus was not reliable and I was tiring of it's poor power supply (despite mods), poor cooling and flimsy box. When NS introduced the Horizon I ordered the s100 box kit (back then metal top was optional!) and the CPU to get a z80 and transfered my ram, MDS floppy, VDM-1, ACR, PIO to the NS* horizon case in early 1978. Less than a year later I would add a Heath H19, Anadex dp800 printer and more ram. Now twenty years later I still have the Horizon and the H19 in use nearly daily with a softsector floppy and a teltek HDC. The MDS floppy, DP800 and VDM-1 are used with another system less freqently (installed in a Netronics explorer 8085). I might add the three SA400s still work just fine. Most of the altair stuff is stored, front pannel is good for debug but otherwise too unreliable. I built the NS* Horizon as it was the first system I'd seen in late '77 that looked like 24x7x365 was possible. Over the years it would be altered, restored to original and hit by lightening twice...and it's still ticking. <only around 30,000 of these fine mechines where ever built so i would sa <that they are very rare these days.... They are common enough in the USA being made in California. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Slacker redemption time

by mor＠crl.com

Okay, for all you so-called collectors who have been lax in filling your homes to the rafters with unloved digitalia, here's your big opportunity to start catching up with me: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=14015888 -- mor(a)crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/

28 years, 1 month

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Another EBay absurdity

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, 16 May 1998 11:08 Subject: Re: Another EBay absurdity >> >> IBM PC model 5150: $100 Please. Hundreds of thousands made. Free. >> Laugh it into the ground... Free is the only price. And if that's not good >> enough, I recently picked up a Compaq 386/20 with multisync VGA monitor for >> free...Too bad I can't get the &^$&$(@$%#& 3.5" floppy to work. > >Maybe that's why the 5150 is more desirable :-). After all, you can >always fix those given the techref - no custom chips, full schematics, >etc. No problem... > >> Now to add something new to the list... What are the best/worst for RFI? > >Well, my old Tandy model 1 radiates a bit. > >I would think some of the old DEC backplanes with no metal screening at >all (like the RK11-C and DX11, and even machines in the BA11-F, like the >PDP11/45) would not be trivial to get through EMC tests. I've never had >problems running any of my machines with normal broadcast radio/TV in >adjacent rooms, so it's not a big problem in that sense, but it may be a >pain for amateur/SWL work. > >Worst problem I know is that the harmonics of both the TV line scan and >the VGA line scan are close enough to our standard time service (Rugby >MSF on 60kHz) to totally swamp the RF stage of any such receiver. I >generally have to put the aerial/RF stage in another room at least. > >-tony > heh well on a more moden note my IBM monitor is terible for RF floating around when the monitor kicks in it makes all lights and other computers in the room flicker.... oh yeah it dosent like to be in the room with any other computers ether or thie IBM monitor will start to play up as well....... Oh well......I suppose IBM dosent like to other too many of these mechines around......

28 years, 1 month

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Another EBay absurdity

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

The only problem I have with my rather conventional equipment in terms of RFI is when my monitor changes modes, and I am using an AM receiver right next to it. The sound flickers a bit. I would think that the home computers and games systems like C64, PCjr, etc. couldn't put out too much RFI, since they used TVs for monitors... > >Maybe that's why the 5150 is more desirable :-). After all, you can >always fix those given the techref - no custom chips, full schematics, >etc. No problem... > >> Now to add something new to the list... What are the best/worst for RFI? > >Well, my old Tandy model 1 radiates a bit. > >I would think some of the old DEC backplanes with no metal screening at >all (like the RK11-C and DX11, and even machines in the BA11-F, like the >PDP11/45) would not be trivial to get through EMC tests. I've never had >problems running any of my machines with normal broadcast radio/TV in >adjacent rooms, so it's not a big problem in that sense, but it may be a >pain for amateur/SWL work. > >Worst problem I know is that the harmonics of both the TV line scan and >the VGA line scan are close enough to our standard time service (Rugby >MSF on 60kHz) to totally swamp the RF stage of any such receiver. I >generally have to put the aerial/RF stage in another room at least. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Computer Values

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>I used to collect coins when I was a kid, and the Blue Book (wholesale >values) and Red Book (retail values) were my bibles. Coins had a pretty >good grading system, and you could find fairly reliable production data. >I don't know of anybody that has tried to do anything close to this for >computers. I have "A Collector's Guide to Personal Computers and Pocket Calculators" by Dr. Thomas F. Haddock that attempts to price old computers. They don't do a very good job, though. According to the book, an Apple IIc is worth $200 - $400 and a Lisa 1 is worth $50 - $150. To be fair, though, the book is from 1993. Anybody know of anything more recent? Tom Owad

28 years, 1 month

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Another EBay absurdity

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-05-15 21:07:04 EDT, you write: << > Now to add something new to the list... What are the best/worst for RFI? >> I had an apple ][+ which caused major tv interference. my particular apple had a revision 6 motherboard i believe. later models had a different board and had some metal shielding on the inside. earlier models had no provisions for it. david

28 years, 1 month

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Microscopic Computer Collection?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Noone really cares about used-up silicon. My uncle works at a major company that builds semiconductor factories (A meta-semiconductor factory?), the name of whic escapes me. It is the major one, though. Anyway, he has an bad wafer, of Pentium chips. By the way, is it theoretically possible to make an IC with only a prototype IC and an arbitrary amount of machinery? >>into it within the first 5 or so hits. > >Yes, there's an image of the 4004 die on Coulson's site. But if >collecting classic computers was only about finding GIFs on the >web, we'd all have pretty big collections, wouldn't we? :-) > >Sad to say, but I'd like to get two 4004s - one to smash, one to >keep as-is. I get the impression they're considerably less rare >than many of the computers we collect, having been used in more >popular computerized devices. > >For that matter, I'd like to get more rejected silicon dies. >I have one three-inch wafer containing an HP CPU from the early >80s, and I lusted at the eight-inch wafers I saw at a friend's >office. Anyone know anyone at a foundry? Or do they religiously >recycle the silicon after it's been contaminated with circuitry? > >- John >Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm> > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Another EBay absurdity

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-05-13 10:41:03 EDT, you write: << Actually, David Greelish (of "historically brewed" and the "classic computing society") is attempting just such an online price guide. His efforts so far can be seen on: http://members.aol.com/mtpro/ >> what a joke! i just webbed there not long ago and checked his price guide. an H89 for $400? wow, i got mine for free! a pcjr for $50? i cant even give one away! a trs80 model 1 for $200? yea, right! from his "prices" i could sell part of my collection for over $1500. the list is quite sparse though. what about my osi or my portable pc or mac512k with a hyperdrive or my tandy 102 or atari portfolio? i seldom take seriously anyone who attempts to put market prices on old computers. for some light reading and humour goto the above url and check for yourself. david

28 years, 1 month

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North Star Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> NS* were setup with 16-62k of ram. There were three common OSs run on <> them NS*dos(nothing like PC dos), CP/M-80, there was also UCSD pascal <> P-system. I believe NS*dos reached at least V5.4. They didn't not use <> a monitor or keyboard as a terminal was commonly used. < <While agreeing 100% with what you say, is there any reason why you <couldn't put one of the many S100 video boards into an NS* and plug a <monitor into that You'd probably still need a terminal for text I/O, but <I can't see why you can't have a separate graphics display as well. Typical NS* was set up that way. That was not to say they were configured with an assortment of third party cards. Mine never had a NS* ram card >from 1978 on, already had Seals and PT 8kx8 on hand. Also used a PT VDM-1 until I got an H19 a few weeks later. No doubt over time most any combination of cards made it in to a NS* crate. It was a good crate for upgrading and mods. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Another EBay absurdity

by manney＠lrbcg.com

Anyone interested in a Head Start Explorer? (Laptop -- sorta -- XT w/HDD, needs CGA monitor). - HDD OK, has a virus - Broken backsoace key, some others feel funny (stuck) - Broken on/off switch, needs to be pushed in with pen manney(a)lrbcg.com "Un sot trouve toujours un plus sot qui l'admire."

28 years, 1 month

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Soviet programmable calculators: anybody interested?

by andy＠topaz.kiev.ua

Hi, all! I'm kinda novice around here... So can't get at once if the topic will be interesting to you chaps. In my school days I used to work with programmable calculators (Soviet ones - .ua was part of SU that days). So if smb finds the topic interesting I can try to recollect all I know about 'em and post right to the group. And I can assume they could be called classic 'cause the last model of this "Elektronika MK" series was issued ~11 years ago. So, if find it worth typing please mail me to andy(a)topaz.kiev.ua -andy

28 years, 1 month

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Microscopic Computer Collection?

by jfoust＠threedee.com

As a teen, I remember scavenging 7400-ish chips and whacking them along the edge to split the ceramic to expose the silicon die, then examining them under a microscope. With that experience in mind, I've saved a number of chips from junked equipment over the years. Has anyone else out there assembled a microscopic chip collection? I've thought about removing the dies from the chips (hmm, might be tough because they're so fragile) and mounting them on slides. Sam's message about the 4004 made me think about this. Coulson suggested a good way to get a 4004 would be to find one in an old cash register. I checked the net for sites for cash register repair companies, and sent a few e-mails, but none had spare 4004s. It would be fun and almost educational to outsiders to have a series of slides showing the evolution of the common Intel chipset, or memory chips. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

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Microscopic Computer Collection?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I remember smashing chips. Was pretty difficult, actually. I tortured memory chips. I think this might be a good idea. I can imagine a fairly large market for this, if you're into that sort of thing. THe only problem is: how many 4004s are left, not counting the ones on Voyager? How many were made? >them along the edge to split the ceramic to expose the silicon die, >then examining them under a microscope. With that experience in >mind, I've saved a number of chips from junked equipment over the years. > >Has anyone else out there assembled a microscopic chip collection? >I've thought about removing the dies from the chips (hmm, might >be tough because they're so fragile) and mounting them on slides. > >Sam's message about the 4004 made me think about this. Coulson >suggested a good way to get a 4004 would be to find one in an old >cash register. I checked the net for sites for cash register >repair companies, and sent a few e-mails, but none had spare 4004s. > >It would be fun and almost educational to outsiders to have a >series of slides showing the evolution of the common Intel chipset, >or memory chips. > >- John >Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Intel 4004 architecture

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I'm interested in finding out all about the Intel 4004 which, if history <is recorded corrrectly, was the world's first microprocessor. No problemo... according to my 1979 Intel component databook... the last year it was in the data books (along with the 4040). Oh, as a note the 8008 had a shorter life than the 4004! <Was the 4004 chip itslef a microprocessor? Well yes, but I'd have to know what you consider a uprocessor. It was complete in that it contained the Instruction decode, ALU, registers and all the basic timing and control. <Did it require support chips to actually make it functional? Yes, a clock generator, and a pot load of logic or specific support chips. I've seen 290x based designs that used fewer chips total. <I recall that the 4004 was a part of a chip set upon which you could < build applications. Yes there were but, the 4004 could be used alone...awkwardly. <Was the 4004 a serial or parallel architecture? Parallel. Instructions are 8bits and data/arithmetic paths 4bits wide. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Intel 4004 architecture

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

> >I'm sure there are at least a couple of g00r00's on this list who can >provide the information I seek. > >SNIP >Lastly, and most importantly, is their a resource for information on the >4004 that someone off-hand knows exists on the web? > >Thanks! > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com TRY THIS LINK, FOR STARTERS.... http://home1.gte.net/ccourson/4004.htm --Larry

28 years, 1 month

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Intel 4004 architecture

by dastar＠wco.com

I'm sure there are at least a couple of g00r00's on this list who can provide the information I seek. I'm interested in finding out all about the Intel 4004 which, if history is recorded corrrectly, was the world's first microprocessor. Was the 4004 chip itslef a microprocessor? Did it require support chips to actually make it functional? I recall that the 4004 was a part of a chip set upon which you could build applications. Was the 4004 a serial or parallel architecture? Lastly, and most importantly, is their a resource for information on the 4004 that someone off-hand knows exists on the web? Thanks! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

28 years, 1 month

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Very interested in classic computer software

by eengelmann＠worldbank.org

How do I find out more about your list or group? My business buys and sells old programming, database and OS software for PCs. ems(a)wdn.com

28 years, 1 month

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North Star Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Well, I am looking for a decent DEC PDP-series machine though I don't kno <(yet!) a lot about them. I've programmed a couple of DEC machines in <assembler and Pascal during various studies at the local college. That i <somewhat important to be a little prepared but it doesn't amount to much <because I have had virtually no hands-on hardware fun yet. Now I want to <get one to preserve and actually learn more upon. I've not asked here on <the list yet for one that's available, but someday within the next year o <so I will ask if one doesn't show up nearby to me beforehand. While I'm not against it... this is an example. Like what kind of PDP-?? There are PDP-11s, -8s, 10s and others, all different, some quite large. Even within a family like PDP-11 there are unibus machines (11/20, 11/34, 11/44...), Qbus machines (LSI-11, 11/23, 11/73...), CTbus (pro350, 380), bounded PDT-11/130, pdt11/150. There is where a little research beforehand is needed. A pro350 is desktop, an 11/44 could easily be three racks and a washing machine disk. PDP-8s there are at least three major buses used and variations in the family ranging from the small decmates to an older straight-8 or 8I. When put in context "I want a PDP." is a pretty broad statement and could put you in the position of trying to handle something larger in scale (or smaller) than desired. I'm not saying don't but, having a PDP-10 (ka10) means you have at least 40-200 square feet just to set it down and three phase power to run it. <My curiosity at wanting to learn how things work, such as what I've <reported above, has served me very well. I would not have the engineerin <job such as I have now nor the activity I have in the antique radio Part of where my interest in engineering lies and originated from. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Computer Values

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 11:03 PM 5/14/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: > >eBay and other online auctions are probably the best gauges of prices >there are, because they represent fairly efficient markets. In fact, some >online auctions that move their own inventory do regression analysis that >tells them more or less what price they can expect to get for any given item. These net auctions cause a great deal of thought in my brain, which is driven by a pure-gold capitalist heart. At first I thought they'd be a great place to pick up bargains on trailing-edge contemporary PC and consumer stuff, but whoa... look at those prices! Sure, they start at $9.00, but you can watch them zoom right up to conventional Best Buy or CDW retail prices *or more*. The question "Yeah, but who pays retail?" is answered "Lots, and many pay more." Someone did their homework when they developed this online auction concept. Or perhaps it exposed its true nature once someone implemented it, and let the market drive it. (Although I wonder if we don't know important details such as the rate at which the auction house successfully collects its percent, or whether auctions have been rigged by shills working for the seller, etc.) So when the historical computer sells for what we (the dumpster-diving cheapskates) see as inflated prices, we may instead me seeing the evolution of a "retail" price for our old junk, and perhaps the anecdotal reports can provide a "dealer" or "wholesale" price, or at least provide the mean. We grimy collectors know that much computer equipment is tossed in the trash, fed to scrap collectors, or is still sitting in warehouse corners. That alone fuels a desire to pick up collectibles for no cost. Just yesterday I introduced myself to a local junk dealer. I missed some kind of mainframe from a local business by a month... but now he knows he can sell me junk for higher than the scrap value, so perhaps he'll remember me for next time. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

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Windoze 3.0

by bwit＠pobox.com

Russ, If you get more than one person interested, I believe I can get a couple copies of Win 3.0 for folks. Regards, Bob ---------- From: Russ Blakeman[SMTP:rhblake@bbtel.com] Sent: Thursday, May 14, 1998 3:51 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Windoze 3.0 I have a new copy of Windows 3.0 for sale. It's never been used but the shrink is off of the outer box but the manual is still wrapped and the disks untouched. It comes with 1.2m 5.25" fl;oppies but if someone wants this and needs a set of 1.44m 3.5" disks I can make those and add them to it. I need $15 for it with only the 5.25" disks, mailed to anywhere in the 48 continental states. Add $2.50 (17.50 total) if you wish a set of 1.44m 3.5" disks included (copies from the 1.2's) to cover the floppies and the little extra weight. I have only the one copy so first come first served. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 1 month

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Another EBay absurdity

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Ditto. I'm somewhat surprised that you can't find anything cheap. In the WantAds, which generally sell Commodore 128s for $300, the Compaq portables go for $10 a piece. >> >>>> Compaq Portable: $100 Pfeh. $15 >>I'd get one for <$15, but I've yet to see one that cheap. Cheapest so far >>is $50. > > Wish you were here. There's six of them sitting in a trift store. They're >ASKING $5 each. > > Joe > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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random bits need new home

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Yes, that's all a decmate needs, though I haven't seen one with an 8" drive. I have the manuals and 5.25" diskettes of WPS, as well as a couple of other random DEC 5.25" disks (MS Windows 1.0 for VAXmate and something else). I ought to download RX8 (or whatever the OS is called) and try it on my DECMate. > >1.) Apple II ProDOS User's Kit. Complete in box. (Includes disk, manuals, > packing list, foam, and other exciting artifacts.) > >2.) Apple II Apple Logo. Includes box, disk, and 2 manuals ("Introduction > to Programming through Turtle Graphics" and "Reference Manual"). > >3.) Box of 8 inch floppies unknown condition: > a.) digital software (BA-M386A-BA) WPS-8/DECMATE V2 BIN MATH RX2 > b.) digital software (BA-M471A-BA) WPS-8/DECMATE V2 BIN SORT RX2 > c.) digital software (BA-M470A-BA) WPS-8/DECMATE V2 BIN COMM RX2 > d.) digital software (BA-M469A-BA) WPS-8/DECMATE V2 BIN LIST RX2 > e.) digital software (BA-M387A-BA) WPS-8/DECMATE V2 BIN BASE RX2 > f.) digital software (BA-S968B-MA) ALVTAB0 DECMATE SYSTEM TEST > REPLACES: AS-S463A-MA > g.) hand labeled intel "SA/FT/FMS Priam Interface, SMD Interface > for updated byte/serial PCB's" > h.) hand labeled dysan "Backup of Priam test programs" > > The box is one of those that can be attached to others of the same > type. Manual and labels for box included. Whoo-hoo. > >Is #3 enough to get a decmate runnin? > >Make me an offer. Random old Sun bits preferred, cash accepted. > >Thanks, > >--pec >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >The Antique Computer Collection: http://www.wco.com/~pcoad/machines.html > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Slacker redemption time

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Uh-huh. It's time to move out of my apartment. Is the HP 3000 any good (in terms of how interesting it is)? >Okay, for all you so-called collectors who have been lax in filling your >homes to the rafters with unloved digitalia, here's your big opportunity >to start catching up with me: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=14015888 > >-- >mor(a)crl.com >http://www.crl.com/~mor/ > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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web site - emulators and info

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

Hi all, For those that care, I just found an interesting web site at http://www.arrgh.demon.co.uk/home.html; quite a bit of info on all the popular old 8-bit machines of the early 80's, plus where to get emulators for these machines from, articles about popular computing characters of the time, etc... have fun, Jules

28 years, 1 month

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test

by Marty＠itgonline.com

For the first time since I subscribed to this list there were no messages from last night. Hmmmm.

28 years, 1 month

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Ali Babas cave

by H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au

At 12:58 AM 14-05-98 -0400, William Donzelli wrote: >> That is good news (for us). Do you have contact details for anyone who >> has one? > >The DEC Australia collection probably has one (but they have damn near one >of EVERYTHING DEC made!). If this is discussing a PDP-9 then yes, there is at least one in the collection - the first Digital box purchased by La Trobe in about 1967. There's an interesting story behind this system: In about 1968 the -9 was stored in a basement area which was unfortunately flooded when some high-pressure water pipes ruptured. My current boss (who was Computer Centre Manager at the time) along with the technical officer moved the -9 out onto a lawn and it was disassembled. The parts were then washed and dried in front of radial heaters (one of which is still in use in my bosses office!). The -9 was reassembled but three flip chip modules were found spare! The system ran (without them) for about 10 years before being replaced with a PDP-15, DECsystem-10 and Vaxes of various types. It was decommissioned and moved to the DEA museum collection. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"

28 years, 1 month

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Oh, what a tangled web...

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Yes, but we're nearly at the dawn of the 21st century. We've got like what... 5 billion? And furthermore, there are several authors on the list, who actually controll their temper. Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Russ Blakeman <rhblake(a)bbtel.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, May 14, 1998 9:36 PM Subject: Re: Oh, what a tangled web... >Greg Troutman wrote: > >> With the recent discussion on the MTPRO price guide, the ZX80 bashing, >> and a bit further back the Enrico Tedeschi flame festival, I found it >> quite amusing to run across the following entry at eBay: >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=13957826 >> >> For those without a web browser, I'll just say that this is a book on >> Sinclair computer history, being auctioned by the author of the MTPRO >> price guide (who goes by the handle "ClassicComputing" at eBay). Most >> remarkable of all, the book was authored by a gentleman named Enrico >> Tedeschi. > >You sure wouldn't know it by the way he writes in the list area, would >you. I guess anyone can write a book >anymore. ------------------------------------------------------------------ -- > > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >

28 years, 1 month

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Teaching Students Computers... (Semi-OT)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Haven't you ever spelled upside-down words on a calculator before? Q: What is the Divine Comedy about? ( [4] [3] [3] [7] [M+] ) Hell >Russ Blakeman wrote: > >> Remember when the LED HP calculators were banned from high schools and >> considered cheating? My best friend was suspended over just the possession of >> one in school, not even in class. Of course he's a few years younger than I as >> I don't remember calculators being much less than the price of a good used car >> when I was in school. They came down dramatically in 76 when I was going >> through electronics training. I think the one I had cost $105 then and we >> thought that was cheap. > >I was forbidden to take my old Pickett out of its holster many times >back in my early 70s high school days. Never understood what >advantage it was supposed to give me in an EngLit test ... >-- >Ward Griffiths >They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. > Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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PLease ID CD-ROM unit

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

So do you suppose it would be possible to take a shot at figuring out how the thing works? I have no drivers for it. I could look up what the 164P is wired to, saturday or monday. Do you think it would be feasible to develop a driver for it? >> Hitachi HD74LS32P > >Quad 2-input OR gate. > >> 367AP > >Is that another chip? If so, its a hex 3-state buffer > >> 240P > >And that's an octal inverting 3-state buffer > >> 164P > >And a shift register (odd...) > >> MB74LS00 > >Quad 2 input AND gate > >> 138 > >3-8 line decoder. > >> >> TI J549X SN74LS541N > >Octal 3-state buffer. > >Probably some kind of address decoder (the '138) and buffers. Nothing too >unusual (although what the '164 is doing I don't know). > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Televideo 925 switch settings

by mor＠crl.com

Can someone tell me what each of these dip switches do? -- mor(a)crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/

28 years, 1 month

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Teaching Students Computers... (Semi-OT)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Sorry, I always get those things backwards ;) [7] [7] [3] [4] [M+] >On Thu, 14 May 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > >> Haven't you ever spelled upside-down words on a calculator before? >> Q: What is the Divine Comedy about? >> ( [4] [3] [3] [7] [M+] ) Hell > >LEEH? > >-- Doug :-) > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Can we talk about computers at least?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I will do my best to drop by. I don't really intend to buy much, just take a breaking from browsing _virtual_ computer museums > Well Agreed! > > Sorry I haven't been active in the list much... between work and >a family illness I've been _busy_! BTW: Anyone planning on attending >the MIT Flea market this Sunday? I doubt prices are going to be >reasonable what with that $100 PDP-11/23 last month. > >--jmg > >> From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> >> Subject: Can we talk about computers at least? >> >> People. >> >> Could we move the discussion about the perceived woeful inadequacies of >> the current state of public education to a more appropriate forum? Like >> say a usenet group? Or a new mailing list? Basically anywhere but here, >> where it really does not belong? > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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3.5

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I remember frying a //c by plugging in an 800K external drive. Hey! It fit! >On Wed, 13 May 1998, David Williams wrote: > >> Early versions of the Apple //c didn't have the support for 3.5" >> drives. Mine is like that. You can check which version of the //c >> you have by going into Applesoft and doing a PRINT PEEK(64447). If >> it returns 255 then you have an original //c. The tech ref shows 3 >> basic versions and their ID bytes as follows: >> >> Original //c : ID Byte = 255 >> >> UniDisk //c : ID Byte = 0 > >Mine returns 0, so this is the one. It should support 3.5" drives, though >possibly not the one I've got. > >> Added 3.5" support >> Increased ROM to 256K > ^^^^ You've GOT to be kidding me! > >Unless it means "ROMs that will support 256K of RAM". > ><snip> > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Windoze 3.0

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

I have a new copy of Windows 3.0 for sale. It's never been used but the shrink is off of the outer box but the manual is still wrapped and the disks untouched. It comes with 1.2m 5.25" fl;oppies but if someone wants this and needs a set of 1.44m 3.5" disks I can make those and add them to it. I need $15 for it with only the 5.25" disks, mailed to anywhere in the 48 continental states. Add $2.50 (17.50 total) if you wish a set of 1.44m 3.5" disks included (copies from the 1.2's) to cover the floppies and the little extra weight. I have only the one copy so first come first served. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 1 month

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